Latest / Chirping Zebras / ADAPTIVE HOCKEY | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #103

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ADAPTIVE HOCKEY | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #103 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark Riley: I believe that is a zebra on the ice, Bill. How did he get on the ice? They still can't get him off the ice. This is crazy. Here comes all the zebras. It's a zoo out there. You can't do that. Doesn't matter. Welcome everyone to trip and keepers. Maybe we're all ⁓ in. The Zebra side. Welcome everyone to Tirping Zebras. Mark Riley alongside Gino Bender Jr., as always, coming to you from Lovell Ice Arena. We're back. We're back at Lovell. And we're back with AOA Studios. Mike and Z are here. And we are here for a very special day, the Mass Hockey Adaptive Hockey Day. And ⁓ which is pretty cool. Before we get into that a little bit, we want to thank our sponsors, the referees, Crease, your one-stop shop, for all your referee needs from training and payment, development and scheduling. They do it all. Also, want to thank Damon Financial LLC. For over twenty five ⁓ twenty-four years, Damon Financial has helped families and businesses protect their wealth and growth through trusted, clear strategies from retirement planning and investments to tax efficient solutions. They deliver no nonsense advice focused on your goals. You can give them a call at 508-321-2101 today to schedule your appointment or Visit them at Damon Finanancial dot com. And ⁓ today has been a very special day, very cool. We've been able to meet ⁓ people from all six disciplines of adaptive hockey. And ⁓ and they in they include ⁓ deaf hockey, blind hockey, ⁓ warrior, standing amputee, special, ⁓ and sled. Yep. And ⁓ we had a few gold medal Couple gold medals. We had a bronze, ⁓ which was which was very cool. And we got an insight into the hockey world that not many people might actually realize is even there or what it's all about. ⁓ the opportunity, yeah, right. Like ⁓ you know having someone with a disability or, you know, special needs and, you know, you wanna give everything, right? You ⁓ like especially athletics and all that kind of stuff and you might not know what's going out there. Like you never even think about hockey as a as an outlet because it's such a unique sport where it's played on blades and equipment and it's in in a rink and, you know, it is pricey, it is expensive sport, right? Yep. But, you know, there's so many So many different opportunities that you that these these kids can have and it's it's It is really special. No, it is. And ⁓ wanna thank Ray LeBlanc, who's the director of Mass Adaptive Hockey. Yep. And ⁓ for all the work he does in putting to putting together this day that highlights all those disciplines and allowing us to be a part of it. Absolutely. And like I, you know, I told my daughter on the way over here she skated with the standing up amputee today, played goalie for Yeah, very cool. You know, I told her, I was like, listen, she was like, didn't know really know what she was coming over here and getting involved in. I was like, listen, I go, you get to skate every day. I go And you put a smile on your face every single day. I go, these kids don't get to do that every day. I go, this is their day. I go, and you're gonna go make their day. And I was like, and then, you know, just like even Brian was just on talking about, hey, there's no, there's no like practice hours. Like he wants to get like an hour of ice just to get people there. And it's just, and it's they gotta go at 10 o'clock on like a Wednesday. Right? Like, that's the stuff that I'm like, we take for granted, she takes for granted that, you know. that these these kids that really struggle and you know it it is a you know Special thing that these guys are doing. Yeah, I know. It's a very cool day, and very cool that your daughter participated. Yeah. Dylan's such a great kid. ⁓ so before we get into all our interviews, want to remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube and also find us on all the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course. The TikTok. And ⁓ also ⁓ wanna remind you to check out chirpingzeebras.com. And also remind you, March 15th, it's right around the corner, we're gonna be in the parade in South Boston for the St. Patrick's Day Parade. We have the chirping zebras and shorty St. Patrick's Day blowout, and we have the show live taping ⁓ at Laugh Boston on March 15th at night. And we have none other than Terry Ryan and Jonathan Diaby. That's right, Dolo and Ted Hitchcock from Shorzy joining us on the float and on the show. And we're gonna have a lot of former guests coming to the show, I think. I think a lot of hop hopefully more people buy tickets we don't give out a bunch of free ones. So no no no we're gonna we by this time this dropping it's probably Sold out already, but you can check and see if there's any last minute tickets. And we are gonna have a quite a list of VIPs there, so it's gonna be a lot of fun. So without further ado, ⁓ this has been a this great episode. And you're gonna learn a lot about all the different disciplines of adaptive hockey and ⁓ really cool. So let's fire it up. Joining us now, Kevin Kavanaugh, the executive director of Mass Hockey. Kev, welcome to Tripping Zebras. Thanks for having me. It's been ⁓ watching you guys for a while here. I love it. So Right on. Fun to be a part of it. Right on. Now the day the time of this taping, the US just won the gold medal. Yes, like ⁓ very exciting. Five minutes ago. Yeah, exactly. I know. And ⁓ so we have the tire, even though this is gonna be dropped out well after. But Mass pretty well represented there. Yeah. You know what? ⁓ both of the men's and women's teams had ⁓ great Olympics ⁓ and Mass was represented well on both sides. ⁓ the men's team, ⁓ Matt Boldy had a great goal to let lead things off this morning, and ⁓ what a what a great opportunity and and this A gold medal like this hasn't happened since nineteen eighty. And the the next generation of kids, I mean, we're here at Lovell Arena and there were tons of kids out here just to watch the game. They came out, had breakfast, and they were cheering them on. And that's the next generation. And that's that's a great thing to see. The gold medal, people don't realize just how impactful it can be. And I think there's gonna be a whole generation of kids that watched this game this morning that will come out and try hockey pretty soon and ⁓ hopefully find a love for it. I this is a zebra podcast and you know, the the men and women From Massachusetts were well represented. You had Kelly Cook worked the gold medal for the women. Episode five guests. Yes. Yep. And then ⁓ when Chris Rooney retires, he'll be a guest. But he yes, and he ⁓ he just worked ⁓ worked the game. Unbelievable. Like hey, the th you know, our goal hockey's for everyone and we want to develop not just players but coaches, administrators, referees, whatever we can do. And it was great to see representation from Massachusetts at the Olympic level. And you guys are a great supporter of the officiating program. And and USA hockey and everything that's involved in it and we support we appreciate your support and Well we need we need a ref we need refs. We can't play without them. Right. ⁓ I think you know it's the best the message to a lot of our membership right now is that we you know we all need to work together. Right. ⁓ you know, it's funny, on the officiating side of things, we know that referees don't get a preseason, they don't get practice. Their practice is a game. Right. And there are a lot of times where coaches, players, and parents don't recognize that. Right. So we need to let our referees grow as well. And and we wanna create an atmosphere that's they're gonna help everyone develop. And you said something too, right? We all we're all in this together. I always say like, Hey, the coach is referees, right? Like we gotta work together, not against each other, right? Like when I call a penalty on someone, like it's not like it's not personal, right? Like let's work right like, you know, let's Do what's best for the kids in that situation and especially anything under U fourteen and and under, right? It's just all about development and and getting better. So And and you guys have been great with referees, Craice. With what your dad's been doing, ⁓ you know, being involved with ⁓ clinics and stuff like that. So ⁓ you know, w no one appreciates that more than us referees and the and we're trying to develop those kids too. And it has to be a a partnership. It really does. No, it it does and it is, which is a great thing. And you know, we've done a great job working with everyone in the referee world to try and get more people to give it a shot. I think ⁓ once people do that, you realize it's it's kind of fun actually. And if you especially at the right ages and the right levels, you find what works for you. I did a couple of years and I found the the right level for me that I enjoyed doing and and it was great. ⁓ and there's a a level for everyone, which is awesome. And again, the the message just to everyone is let's all work together. You know, we're all gonna make mistakes. And at the end of the day, there's no ill intention. I think you guys do a good job too, because the whole thing coaches against referees, right? Right. And there's been plenty of times on the news that there's been, you know, ridiculousness happening. But I think you guys support the referees pretty well when it comes to those coaches that step over the line. And parents too. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, we're seeing parents now too. I mean, and and yeah, we have to. We have to protect our officials. We have to protect our members, right? Right? Whether you're a player, coach, or an official, you're a member. And if someone attacks you, verbally or physically, we have to act. And and we want the officials to know that we have their back. As well as I think a lot of people don't realize when there's an official who has a bad game and we get ⁓ notice of that, we'll review with the officials their game. We'll go over it with them. And the parents and the coaches don't always see that side of it. There is correction. There are opportunities to teach and train. And we do that on both sides. So you know if a coach gets suspended, there are times where officials get a 10 day you know sit on the bench and Take a look and watch some things and it it works out okay. But I think a lot of people don't realize that there's that taking place in the background sometimes. There's a lot of a lot of behind the scenes that people don't understand with the officiating and what you guys do as as far as the players and everything else. I mean your player development program is unbelievable. I think Massachusetts is greatly represented across the whole country when we go to these these tournaments. And I think that's ⁓ you know, kudos to you and the job you do every day in and day out. We're we're lucky, right? We have we have a state that is ⁓ favorable to the sport of hockey. We have a lot of people that love the sport. ⁓ we have great support support from the top down, the Boston Bruins, the colleges. You know, we work well with a lot of the different levels. And as a result, I think a lot of the kids see that. They see that they have opportunity to play beyond youth hockey. And for the ones that want that, that's awesome. But you know, ninety percent of our players aren't playing beyond youth hockey. And we try to remind people of that as well, that this is fun. We're here, you know, at level this weekend. Not only are we doing adaptive day today, but we have the tier five state championships going on at the ten U, twelve U, and fourteen U levels. So We have three more games to go. ⁓ the championships for the state at the tier five level, which is really the third level team for our town programs. Yeah, Weymouth got bumped out. It happens. It happens. But everyone has a chance. Yeah. That's the nice thing about the state play downs. Each district has their play down and then they advance to the state tournament. And it's been a great weekend for that too. So we want to see kids have fun. The parents ⁓ have been complimentary, the coaches have been complimentary. We think it's been a pretty successful weekend. So now you hear adaptive, you mentioned it. It's Adaptive Hockey Day for Mass Adaptive Hockey, which is an incredible program. ⁓ Ray LeBlanc, a former guest which we'll see today, ⁓ you know, I think has done a great job along with mass hockey to really develop it because he's the leader. It's a well it's amazing how many disciplines there are, how many different, you know, ⁓ programs there are within adaptive hockey. Yeah. And it's just it's just amazing. Well, I think one of the things that we've seen is and we're trying to promote growth in all those different ⁓ opportunities, right? We all know sled hockey. We see it in the Paralympics. It is, you know, it's it's very easy to understand the disabled adaptive side of that. You see someone in a sled and you say, Okay, I get it. But then we have special hockey, and those are kids who have a variety of different issues that they're dealing with, but they look normal from lack of a better term. So it's tough to understand that that's a special hockey game going on. And those kids have autism and some different things, and it's a great situation. And that's where Ray with the East Coast Jumbos has done such an amazing job launching that program a long time ago and really seeing it through. ⁓ and but when Ray kind of joined us at the state level for adaptive hockey, he's been awesome at trying to help us understand all the different disciplines. So today here we'll be doing special, but we'll be doing standing amputee and we'll be doing warrior and we'll be doing blind and we'll be doing deaf. All of those players have a great opportunity. So it's a great showcase of all the different ⁓ adaptive opportunities. Yeah, for sure. I don't think ⁓ I don't think a lot of people or enough people know about the adaptive program and kind of what's out there. And you know, it it also reminds people that, you know, b those who are able bodied, you know, they should be more appreciative of the fact that They don't have to, you know, deal with some of these challenges like other other kids do. And and it's great to hockey's just such a great sport for everyone. I mean, we've seen it with the military community, with the Warrior for Life Fund we've worked with. I mean, and now it's just and and do you see it growing on a national level? Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's growing on a national level, but it really requires the local grassroots people that are willing to step up. And and even having a conversation with you guys and putting this out. helps people understand that there are opportunities that they might not have been aware of. ⁓ and we just recently and back in November hosted the ⁓ USA Hockey Blind Classic. So it was a national event for blind hockey. And we had people from all over the country coming in. It was awesome. And there was a a young boy, ⁓ I think he's from Belmont if I'm not mistaken. Don't quote me on that. I can't remember. But ⁓ you know, he's he's vision impaired. But the national team was out there playing. They saw him play and I think he's 11 years old or so. And they're like, that's a kid that we're gonna keep an eye on because he can play. Wow. And and so it's rude. Yeah, exactly. Hey, there are opportunities. But that's the neat thing is that you know, as people learn about all the different opportunities, they realize there is a place and hockey is for everyone. No question. Now, ⁓ as far as getting more information, it it is linked to the mass hockey website. Yep, absolutely. Go to the Massachusetts hockey website, mahockey.org, and we've got a page right there for adaptive and it'll give you all the information. ⁓ you know, we've been promoting this day quite a bit, but we'll be this is the third annual day that we've done this where we kind of showcase the different disciplines. But over the course of the year, ⁓ we just launched a new team, ⁓ the Boston Defenders, D E A F, ⁓ and a new deaf hockey team. ⁓ and they're playing, you know, they play within their local programs, but they also play as a deaf team in deaf events. And so there are ways to kind of keep the kids involved in both levels and it's been phenomenal. That's awesome. Well, we love the work you're doing. Not only for adaptive hockey, but for mass hockey. I mean, we're a couple of products of mass hockey. Absolutely. And ⁓ you know, it we all are. Yeah. Well you are too. I didn't mean I didn't mean just us. ⁓ no, but we're the you know, the best thing is, and again, we talk about hockey is for everyone. The other thing about hockey that's great is there's hockey for life. Right? We're again, we're here at the arena. Later today is the the men's league. And they play three games in three rings, so there's you know, eighteen different teams going throughout the day. And those are all people that played when they were kids, fell in love with the sport, and now they're playing as as men, fifty, sixty, seventy years old. Yeah. ⁓ so you can always do it and have some fun with it. And refereeing is the same way. I mean, you know, that was my way of staying involved with the sport because I couldn't play anymore 'cause injuries and refereeing gave me a a way to stay involved and make a career out of it. And now I got this podcast. So you know, so it's ⁓ good stuff. Well we appreciate everything you guys are doing to promote the game as well. So Having an opportunity to talk with you today is awesome and we really appreciate it. And being here for Adapt today is really special. So thank you guys very much. Yeah, no worries. Kevin Kravenaugh, the executive director of Mass Hockey, want to thank you for coming on. Thank you for having All right, we'll be back to Thanks. Joining us now, Kip St. Germain, member of multiple Olympic teams ⁓ in Para. Sled hockey? Para ice hockey. Para ice hockey. And ⁓ winner of the gold medal in 2002. Correct. And ⁓ under the under the coaching of Rick Middleton. Yeah, who was a former guest on the show. ⁓ so you brought some hardware. So and of course the U.S. laundry. Yeah, and some laundry. The U.S. won the gold medal today, ⁓ as of this taping. ⁓ you know, watching that, does it bring back though yeah, because you did you guys Did you win an overtime? No, we won shootout. Shootout, that's right. So we did a five minute or five or ten minute overtime, then shootout. Wow. What's it like when you watch that? And does it bring back those memories of I I was getting choked up watching the and watching the flag be raised and national anthem being sung today. It's you know, it's a great day for hockey. Yeah. What's that like? I mean, having having one of these, because you have so this is the gold medal from That's the gold medal from 2009 World Championships. That was the first ⁓ Par ice hockey ⁓ World Championship Gold Medal for US hockey. Okay. This is a gold medal from Salt Lake City, two thousand two, the first US gold medal for ice hockey. And a bronze medal from Torino in two thousand six, ⁓ with paradise hockey. Since this in ⁓ two, we've done bronze and then gold every paral Paralympics since then. So and hopefully we'll do it again this year. Absolutely. We're looking for a three Pete. Yes. Let's do it. ⁓ that's sweet. Incredible. And ⁓ you I wanna I wanna reference your laundry here, 'cause you brought These are official game game one jerseys which are from two thousand two insane. ⁓ two thousand six. How cool I mean this is just ninety eight, but no, this just like all right. So we all dream of growing up and playing in the Olympics. W what's that like? ⁓ it's an amazing experience. ⁓ you dream of it. Everybody goes expecting to win a gold medal, not everybody does. ⁓ To actually have the dream come true. You know, I s I still to this day gotta remind myself that I'm a Paralympian, that I'm a gold medalist. Yeah. ⁓ and US Hockey Hall of Fame, US Paralympic and ⁓ Hall of Fame, it's it's it's been a whirlwind journey and continues. No, you don't do that without just you don't just show up and do this. Like it's a lot of hard work and effort. Like like what's the training like? What's your like how what does it take to get get to that moment and get to that stage? Like What what are the stages for like a young kid today that's trying to trying to get to what where where you accomplished? What's that what's that road like? For me, I was fortunate enough to actually play typical hockey, stand up hockey as a kid. I had my injury later in life and at the age of twenty-four, you know, several years later found sled hockey. once I got in a sled, I fell in life love with hockey all over again. But then it was how do I use this thing? Right. You know, it's like getting a pair of skates for the first time. You know, you don't know how to use the edges, how to stop. You know, you s you stay along the boards. Right. You know, for us, you know, with sled, we don't have far to fall. So you can get going, but trying to stop. That's what the boards keep you on the ice. A lot of bounds of hockey. But yeah, exactly. ⁓ but for me, what I did is I when I first got my sled, I put a piece of cardboard down in the living room in front of the TV, and I would sit in my sled at night watching TV, leaning from side to side. That's how I learned how to skate in my living room. Trying to find my balance points. And I figured if I could balance in my sled by being distracted by the TV. It would come naturally on ice. And eventually it did. Wow. Took some time. But ⁓ there was an adjustment, just learning how to, you know, adjust for angles, having my legs out in front of me versus standing up. Right. But it all comes back to you real quick. Awesome. Now we it we met down in ⁓ out in Montana for the face off of Heroes. And they did a sled ⁓ sled hockey kind of trial or you know a lot of the boys got on there, the NHLers that were there. All right, I didn't get on. I have a legitimate reason. Five games that in two days on my by myself, I refereed, and I got a bad back. So I didn't wanna I didn't want to take myself out. Well, I didn't want to end up in one. That's why my back is I know that's a terrible joke. But but we met SEAL. Yeah. I did, I got shot by a Navy SEAL. but we you know that was a really cool thing because the guys came off and they They were, you know, you had guys like Kevin Miller out there, right? And ⁓ Ally Afredi, Chris Willie, Mark Mowers, you know, some of these seals, ⁓ John Eccles, that came off them like, holy shit, like that's not an easy thing to do. Yeah, no, it's it's one of the things, you know, trying to balance the y you think because you're sitting on your skates, it's gonna be easy to balance. But once you start to lean, you you gotta find that balance point. If you don't, you're over. And then it's even more work to try and get back. Upright. Right. ⁓ and then you get going and you don't realize the core muscles you use, the shoulders, you know, your triceps, things like that. For somebody in a wheelchair, it's a great cross trainer because we use all the opposite muscles that we use every day pushing in a chair. Right, right. So it helps cross train, but you know, it is strenuous work. ⁓ and then, you know, you're using both hands, not only to propel yourself, but to use you know, stick handle, pass and shoot. Right. So you gotta, you know, kind of be coordinated. I wasn't that coordinated. You know, I used to tell the coach my left hand was for holding a glove. You know, I always instinctively would put everything on my right hand. ⁓ but it it worked for me. But these guys today, you know, they shoot just as well left or right handed. ⁓ and so you have a s so everyone understands you have a stick in the one hand. Yeah, I have two sticks. They're about three feet long. Okay. You know, left and right hand. On the butt end is a pick similar to a toe pick on a figure skate. When I first started, we used to ⁓ cut take saw blades and cut them down and bolt them on. Yeah. So you could actually propel yourself. Now they have, you know, molded picks that they stamp out. It's good weapon too. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah. Back and salving. Like I I hear my daughter a stick all the time and I go, Here, here's your weapon. She goes, Well that's why, you know, like for power ice hockey you see the guys you know, full cage, we away neck guard. Yeah. Because you get picked in the neck or in the eye or something like that. Well it's dangerous, yeah. And it's physical. ⁓ yeah, it's hockey. It's hockey. Yeah, it's any more than we already are. Fair point. ⁓ but but it's like when I first watched, I was like, Wow, these guys are like really going at it. It's it's awesome to see because it's just ⁓ it's such a cool thing. Yeah, and when we went into Salt Lake City, you know, I've I've said afterwards that number one we were trying to go in and prove to ourselves and to others that one Not one, we didn't want to embarrass ourselves, but two, that we were athletes first that just happened to have a disability and we were hockey players. Right. And it's the game of hockey. ⁓ so hopefully, you know, we we did that and it's grown over the years. Absolutely. ⁓ and more and more people are watching and starting to understand. You know, if you can see the game live, it's a lot faster in person than it is on on TV. ⁓ and ⁓ probably a lot more physical because you can hear the hits. And then the other thing too, you know, we're down at the bottom part of the boards. There's no give there. All the give is up at the glass. Right. So when you get hit down there It's like hitting cement wall. Yeah. Yeah. What's gonna give is the body. ⁓ No, I think it's something that Everyone should experience because seeing that live out in Montana, that was the first time I've ever seen it live. And it was like wow. And that was just a full physical game. And although most of those guys couldn't were the first time they were doing it. And it was just still hockey. Yeah. We got you know, we got the Paralympics coming up, you know, the the they'll have closing ceremonies tonight for the Olympics. And then March 5th, they'll have opening ceremonies over there for Paralympics, and that's all the elite athletes from around the world who come in and compete in their discipline for gold, silver, and bronze. And there'll be eight countries for sled hockey. Par ice hockey. ⁓ and it's you know, the way it lays out on paper right now, it'll be a US Canada final. Right on. And it's gonna happen. It's gonna be just like the men's and women's. It's gonna be you know a war. They hate each other and it's gonna be physical, it's gonna be fast paced, and it's gonna be a lot of fun to watch. Awesome. Can't wait. And hopefully it's the third gold medal for the US this year. That would be And it'll be the fifth ⁓ Paris hockey med gold medal in the Paralympics for ⁓ US. Wow. Now ⁓ D the documentary, which by the time this drops should be out. But there is the documentary, I believe it's Netflix, right? ⁓ or MC Peacock. ⁓ Peacock. Okay. ⁓ 'cause Rick Middleton texted me last week and name drop. And ⁓ but he said, you know, we were talking about our March fifteenth show at Laugh Boston and and I, you know, telling him, you know, ⁓ and he said, ⁓ the the documentary should be out in a couple of weeks. So ⁓ that's pretty exciting. I know I ⁓ you know, Bungalow Media, ⁓ Put it together. They have a two and a half minute trailer out on their website right now. It's called Ice Gold. The journey from worst to first. ⁓ it's pretty cool. ⁓ the documentary is a little under two hours. ⁓ the foundation of it, there was a hundred ⁓ over a hundred hours of footage from back, you know, back in two thousand one, two thousand two when we did the selection camp, the training camps and all through the games in Salt Lake City. Cool. ⁓ and then they've come back and interview a bunch of us, you know, today's world to see what we're up to and recollections and it's ⁓ It's pretty cool to see relive it all. Yeah. I'd love to see some of that the 98 hours of footage that didn't make it. Here's a day. That's awesome. So but now yeah, now looking forward to it. Now we're here at Lovell Arena for the adaptive hockey day, mass hockey day. So what's it like for you to see these kids competing out there and and playing and developing and you know being ⁓ you know, given the opportunity to play the greatest sport in the world. It's incredible. I mean I got involved with adaptive hockey in the early stage. When I got you know, back when I got involved it was hearing impaired and then sled hockey. And sled hockey we we had three club teams in the country. We really started it backwards. We started with a national team mm and built club teams out of that instead of from the grassroots up. But ⁓ you know to see it expand to standing amputee, hear ⁓ blind hockey special and then warrior. It it's just been phenomenal. And to see the youth and adult levels for all the dis different disciplines throughout the country. ⁓ you know, it it's just been very gratifying to know they had a part in that. Yeah. A small part. ⁓ and to see that these kids have an opportunity to go out and experience the game that we all love. It's awesome. Now when these kids meet you and and realize what you've accomplished, it's gotta be pretty cool. For them to kind of see someone that did it. Well, I'm the relic now. So that these kids around today, they don't know who I am. Yeah, but but they're looking up to the to the Josh Pauls, the Jack Wallace's, the Noah Groves, ⁓ the guys that are on the Paradise, you Paradise hockey team now. Yeah. ⁓ but you know, they're seeing them hopefully win medals and striving to do the same thing. But to your point, the Josh Pauls, the Jack Wallace's, they watched, you know, myself, Joe Howard and Manny Guerrero and Dave Conklin and stuff. So We the Spark. Yeah, yeah. No, it's just carrying on from generation to generation, which is phenomenal. Yeah. Does everyone have the same reaction when they see these this hardware, these gold medals? Yeah, th because I was like a They can't believe they can't believe how yeah how heavy it is. ⁓ I can't. Yeah. The first one I saw was Gigi Marvin's when I met her up in Portland at the card show. And I was just like unbelievable. Like it's just you become a kid. Yeah. Like just like to hold this. Right. And just i it's No, and and you know you know, I like I I break it out and then I have to sit and stare at it 'cause I forget that I have one. Yeah. You know, that I that I accomplished this. ⁓ and you know, nowadays they're getting bigger and bigger. Yeah. Which is awesome. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. And they get you know, the the the the athletes are getting more and more coverage. You know, you know, watch the Olympics these last couple of weeks. You've seen the power power team in with the Olympians and the and the Honda commercials and the Toyota commercials and the and the you know I get on my computer and Jen Lee, the goalie for the for the Paradise hockey is pop popping up as an Xfinity commercial on my computer. I'm like, all right. And and hopefully they'll be I mean, I assume there'll be the same coverage for the I mean, I would hope so. Because even watching the games that the US wasn't playing in in the hockey were incredible. Yeah. So it's gonna be cool to kind of watch all those eight teams compete. And then and then not just hockey. I mean you're gonna have the curl power curling, all the skiing, advances stuff like that. So it's it's really cool. No, it's awesome. And it it's it's awesome to be there to you know as a person to to not only compete in it but to watch the other events going on and and be part of the the excitement that's in the village and in the in the towns. Awesome. Get that experience. We're gonna have you back on with Joe Howard for a full episode because you with hardware like this you deserve a full episode, I'll tell you that. But ⁓ we're gonna appreciate you stopping by today and at the adaptive day and ⁓ just it's it ⁓ it was a pleasure when I met you in Montana and To sit here and hold your gold medals. Pretty cool. Thank thank you guys for you know being here and supporting adaptive hockey and for everything you do with hockey and everything like that. We certainly appreciate it. Yeah, I know. It's been a lot of fun. Yes. And looking forward to another episode. ⁓ absolutely. Kev St. Jermaine, everyone. Nice for coming on, Kev. We'll see Joining us now, Nick McCummings, the assistant coach of the National Blind US hockey team. And also ⁓ Casey Butt, ⁓ whose son Kyle plays on the blind hockey team. And wanna welcome to Chirping Zebras. Great to have you guys. Nice. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, before we get into it, ⁓ you brought some props. I did. ⁓ blind hockey pucks. Correct. Much different. So ⁓ Ray ⁓ came on the show before along with Gianna Griffin, who is a a player. She's a player on our team. They described these, but we never got to see them. Okay. So why don't you show us what we got here? All right. So the first thing here is that's a regular hockey puck? Yep. And that's what they usually play with, unless you're a younger kid, you play with blue puck, which is a lot lighter. Yep. ⁓ they have different variations if you're a goalie, ⁓ different colors, white and orange. ⁓ this here is the blind hockey puck. So regular hockey puck. Blind hockey puck, what's the difference? It's a lot bigger. It's made out of metal and it has eight ball bands in it. So you can hear it as it goes across the ice. Gotcha. ⁓ so that allows the players who are blind or visually impaired to be able to locate the puck. Because a lot of the things they do is by location. So when we start off a game or a tournament. Gene will be out there, he'll drop this puck, and that's what'll happen. After about five games, this is what the puck looks like, believe it or not. So that's what the puck looks like there. Yeah. So and it's unbelievable. Yeah, that one's loud. That's a good one. So I never let that one go because that's a loud one. Right. That's cool. So the problem now is we're trying we're trying to see if we can get somebody to make ⁓ something that's not made out of metal that will withstand the practices, but they get destroyed and make noise. ⁓ the problem now is if if you if you're familiar with hockey, if there's snow on the ice and this goes down, once it stops, if you're a visually impaired player and you can't you you can't see that puck, you w you don't know where it is. ⁓ it's gonna yeah, right. Right. So they they're trying to develop a puck that will if it stops moving, it'll it'll vibrate the ball bearings in it so you can hear it. ⁓ yeah. So very cool. But but every every prototype they've given us we've just totally demolished on the cloud. They have one now that's promising. They've actually built it ⁓ outer core out of The vulcanized rubber and then on on the you have an insert that's almost the size of this puck that goes in there that has the ball bearings in So we'll see it's still make the noise. Yeah. So yeah, I would think that that that'd be like making it out of a black box. Exactly. On the airplane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, why not? ⁓ it can't be too heavy though, right? Because then they won't be able to shoot it. You'd go to hit it on the ice and you'd be stomping. My idea's not always great. ⁓ Casey, now your your son plays. Yes. What's it like to be now, Gino's a parent. I was a parent of a hockey player. Hockey can be a little nerve wracking when your kid's out there. Yeah. What's it like to have a your blind son out there? ⁓ well, I I actually it's been a sh it's been a shock, really. Like I have two other hockey players, grew up in a rink. Kyle grew up as a little rink rat. His father still plays. ⁓ And Kyle never got that opportunity. We didn't even know it was a possibility. It was the furthest thing from my mind. Like not I mean, he was on the ice a couple times with his siblings and I, but we were, you know, safe and watching him and right beside him. Him playing hockey was just not even a thing and he is a s he loves and knows everything about hockey. So he was skating with his group Perkin from Perkins School for the Blind. And Ray and we no you s the two Rays were there. Yep. And they watched him skate and he has he was able to kind of move the puck around and all that. And and He calls me that night and says, Mom, this guy reached out to me. He wants me to play for the hockey national. He wants me to start playing blind hockey. And there's a tournament coming up. And I was just like, Okay, Kyle. Yeah, so it it was a shock to me. So the so I said, okay. And so I met with Ray over Zoom and he was amazing and explained it all to me. And I was like, you know what? There's so much that hockey has given to my family. And I would love for Kyle to have that. And I know Kyle, he wanted it so bad. So I was like, let's. Let's do this. And I'm not gonna lie, I was scared. I was scared. That first day I was scared. Now he how old is he now? So he's twenty years old. Okay. Getting into it a little bit late. He's a good little athlete. He plays other blind sports, coball and something else, but hockey's his love. And so for him to have that opportunity was unreal. That's incredible. Scary though. Yeah. He's he's done very well from from just at the beginner stage where I saw him and I was introduced to him in November. ⁓ just in the days of that tournament we had right there. I mean, he progressed, you know. Fantastically, because he does know the game. And he and it takes a lot to be you know you gotta be fearless to be out there. ⁓ wait, see him today. I will. He's he's improved a lot. He's improved a lot. But I gotta say, standing there watching him on that first day, I tears in my eyes, like I cannot believe this is happening. And at one point I took a step back and was like, Who thought this was a good idea? Visually impairing the blind kids on ice skates. But then I watched the way these guys put this program together and the s and the the incredible like awareness and safety that was presented to these kids and the people that volunteer and I was just like, this is a gift because you learn so much from sports. We all do. And especially hockey. That's a like there is something special about it. And for these kids to get that opportunity, he's only gonna be a better employee, a better friend, a better person from all of it, you know, like so I am so grateful that we bumped he went and tried it. Now you you weren't aware of it. Now I mean there's more obviously more awareness now. How do you, or how does a parent with a child that's visually impaired find the program? Like so what happens is reach out to the your regional ⁓ USA hockey, disabled hockey rep. So each it ⁓ USA hockey is broken into 10 districts, depending on where you live. Massachusetts has its own because it's a big hockey community. Like I said, I'm part of the Southeast. There's 11 states there because hockey isn't as big down in the s in the Southeast. ⁓ but you reach out to US hockey disabled hockey rep, you go right on the website. And you can actually locate the rep, their name, their telephone number, and say, hi, I'm interested in blind. I'm interested in what what whatever discipline there is. And what will happen is they'll reach out to us in our district. And what we try to do is instead of us going there and running the program, ⁓ we ask for volunteers, we ask for coaches that are gonna do it, and then we'll say, Okay, we're gonna come down and get you started on how the how to do this. ⁓ the head coach of the blind team, Coach Savac, ⁓ actually he has a manual put together ⁓ that we usually give to ⁓ programs that are starting out. And and everything's discussion. So, you know, if I'm approaching a blind hockey player, it's all discussion. Hey, I'm coming up to you. Is it okay if I put my hand around you to show you where the stickers and stuff like that? So it everything it starts with communication. ⁓ but I have to go back to what we were saying earlier before we started the segment. ⁓ parents, you know, they're fearful of having their kids get on the air because they think they're going to get hurt. And The statistics show there are more injuries in youth soccer than there are in blind hockey. Yeah. I wanna add to I wanna add to parents reaching out that with Ray and I, we've Kyle goes to Perkin School for the Blind. There's, you know, obviously there's visually impaired and blind kids there. We're starting I'm starting to help promote it there. I've also included the Mass Commission for the Blind so that they're aware of it. And that's where G of what's her name? So I do think that parents like may not n understand hockey, so they may not go to the hockey websites to realize it. But they if they have a ki child that's visually impaired and and or blind, they're gonna find out through that and just reach out to them and then they're gonna send them to to Ray LeBlanc or to whoever takes over the blind house. Get in then having them reach back out to the correct person to get to get the the the players back on the ice is is that's the key. You know, but the the real key is having the parents, you know, allowing their children or, you know, ⁓ their adult child or anybody else to get on the ice. ⁓ and that's and that's, you know, one of the humps that we gotta jump over. Now you're the co you're the assistant coach of the national team. Correct. ⁓ you know, what's that like as far as tournaments where you guys play? How many other countries have the program like that? ⁓ so right now, the only two international teams are Canada and the United States. ⁓ Canada has, believe it or not, they've been playing blind hockey for about 45 years. So they're ahead of the game by about 30 plus years. ⁓ we've had the national team and we've started blind hockey at the USA hockey level probably for a little over 15 years now. It's creeping up on that. ⁓ but at the national level, so our players are are located all over the country. ⁓ and at at the national level, ⁓ we're always looking for sponsors to sponsor us. The Canadian national team, ⁓ they have like bell tire. So that would be like good, your tire sponsoring us or something like that. But because we have players located all over the country in all different ages, ⁓ and you know, it's it's we have girls, women, and men on the team. What we do is we host like regional camps. We'll like three or four camps. We do a camp in Minnesota in June. ⁓ we have a camp coming up in St. Louis in two weeks. ⁓ and then we have an international tournament that's gonna be going on in Toronto ⁓ third weekend of March. ⁓ so right now there's two countries. ⁓ there are other countries that have blind hockey teams, ⁓ but the United States Olympic Committee, sorry, the US Olympic Committee has stated that there needs to be a minimum of six international countries or six countries that have international teams before they will ⁓ take a look at maybe ⁓ promoting blind hockey to the Paralympics for the 2030 Olympics. Okay. So and and it's a co-ed team. It's a co-ed team. So our youngest player was probably right now would be ⁓ 17. ⁓ and you know he skated with us ⁓ in November. Yeah. ⁓ and our oldest player, I know who that is, that's our goalie Doug. He's 51. Awesome. 51. Awesome player. Fantastic goalie. ⁓ and yeah, so so we have quite a quite a range of of ages there. ⁓ but you know, it it it's it can be challenging at time, but like I was explaining to somebody hockey is hockey. and you know what, as long as you're coaching it correctly and being safe more than anything, ⁓ and knowing the visual impairment of the player that you're speaking to or trying to coach, you know, some of them have limit limit ⁓ limits they can't turn left, you know, so don't want you know, yeah, it's where you're placing them on the ice at the same time too. Right. Now it's the it's so there's different levels of visual impairment. Ray explained this to us, but the goalies have to be completely blind. Completely blind. Correct. 100% blind. So if they're not 100% blind and say they're like 95% blind, then we put the the the sleep mask over them, which totally would block out any kind of light whatsoever. So everything they do is all on ⁓ location of the puck. And the sounds. Yeah. And once they hear the pass whistle. I'm not sure if you guys talked about the pass whistle. You know, Ray explained that ⁓ when you get over the blue line, you you blow the whistle to let ever let them know that. the puck's in the zone now. Correct. And and that's to let the goalie know. Everyone else pretty much knows by the sound of the puck. But you know, when the referees, like Gene and those guys, when they blow that pass whistle, now the goalie is totally concentrating on where the sound of that puck is so he can find out and tr and make the save. And Nick, isn't it true that like you guys as coaches are yelling? Because sometimes the puck's out in the middle and it can go from whatever Canada to USA and you don't know. And you're still going in the direction you think the offense ha you're on offense and you have the puck, but the other puck took the the other team took the puck over it. And so for me as a parent, I was watching I was cause Kyle wasn't skating so great at the time and I was like, ⁓ no buddy, go turn around. But then he would. Right. So you guys are yelling to them? Absolutely. And and and we we designate a color. So say that, you know, we're playing Canada, we'll be yellow and there'll be blue. So say there's a the puck is turned over, we're bringing you in the zone, the puck is turned over and now suddenly Canada has it. So the ⁓ the players Or are the coaches are screaming blue, blue, blue. That would that would let the US players know, hey, you know, there's a turnover in the puck. Now you have to g stop backwheeling and and getting into a defensive position. But everything in blind hockey starts with communication. Remember Ray saying it's very loud. It's a lot of lot of yapping, a lot of lot of yelling, a lot of a lot of direction, a lot of that because like I mean, it's the board, you know, you don't want to run into the boards, all that kind of stuff. Safety and correct, yeah. Is ⁓ it's communication is the key from the bench, the players themselves. Players really have to talk to each other when they're line changing. You have to know when you're coming off. And you know, I mean, some people get caught up in the game. It's it's because it's it is an intense game. ⁓ so you have to really be disciplined and be focused when you're on the bench, whether it's a player or a coach, just to make sure that you're paying attention. And then we we have some ⁓ one of our assistant coaches now, Kevin Brown, was one of our defensemen. He's a hundred percent blind. So when there would be a line shift, we would have to make sure that we could bang on the b defensive boards near the door so he would be able to find his way back to the bench. So so now What's so you d who's is there only players on the ice? Or is there any coaches out there? Obviously there's referees. During the game? Yeah. Only players. Only players. Only players. Now are there referees? There are referees. Okay. Yeah. For the games. And they have the pass whistles. ⁓ during practices, the coaches generally wear the referee stripes so the players can distinguish us from the other players on the ice. Right. ⁓ but during a game it's only the players, it's only the referees and that's it. It's it's run just like a regular hockey game. It's amazing the way it all comes together for these kids. Like I had no idea. But the coaches are amazing and everything that they've set up and he's right. I mean, everything we do with Kyle anyways is about communication. You know, you have to verbally say and you can't say things like over there, you know? And these coaches are all in with it and it's it it made me feel like, Wow, this is awesome and I can relax and let him do this. That's cool. And we still do it on the ice. I we'll be on the ice and like, all right, why don't you guys go over here? Coach's like, Yeah, over where coach. I'm like, Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. He my son still does it too, yeah. I'm like, Do you see that thing over there? And he's like, No, Mom, actually I don't. How did you get into coaching blind hockey? ⁓ well, it all started ⁓ I I actually ran a learned escape program in Parkway Youth Hockey in West Rochbury. Yeah. ⁓ and through that program a couple of parents had approached me and asked me if I did private lessons and I said I don't and I asked why. And they had a couple of kids who were had autism or on the spectrum. Okay. ⁓ so I asked if I could Talk to the children and sit down and talk to them and just find out, you know, what was what were they were afraid of. And one was a crowd, one was a lot of loud noises. Yeah, yeah. So what happened was I just said, hey, every week just keep bringing them with their sibling ⁓ sibling and let's get a little bit more equipment on. And eventually one day we're standing there and I looked right at the kid and I said, Hey, and I said, Patrick, I Coach Nick is gonna need help tomorrow setting up the ice before all the kids get on the ice. Do you think you could put your helmet on and come out and help? And he looked at his mom and said, Mom, can I do that? And right then I knew. I said, there are other kids out here who don't know that they can get out there. And from there on in, I just I started my own adaptive skating program in West Roxbury. ⁓ and then from there I went to ⁓ sled hockey and I coached sled hockey for about 10 years with Spaulding rehab. Okay. ⁓ and then COVID s shut sled hockey down and coach Savak was just waiting and he called me and said, What are you doing? I said, Nothing. And he's Yeah, I know. So come on, supply. You're in. Yeah. So yeah, because he was he had been asking me for about five years. And I had been committed to the sled hockey program. So I was just like, you what? That's awesome. Yeah. So and that's how I got involved and you know, I love anything hockey. So, you know, everyone's like, I can't believe you drive, you know, all the places I drive. I'm like, listen, that's it's where you where you want to be. Get in the car and go. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's just awesome. Well, we appreciate you joining us. Casey and Nick, you know, thanks for having us. Just amazing. And ⁓ just ⁓ you know, what you do as a coach, what you do as a parent. I mean, it's the same commitment and it's the s but even more so than a typical right hockey team or player or or son or it's just incredible. And ⁓ we appreciate you ⁓ promoting us and having us on and you know, my thing, Ray's thing is is we tell the parents you get them to the rink and we'll get them coming back. Yeah, 'cause right now like Kyle does not have that many folks around here that are playing blind hockey that he can practice with. So he's thankfully R Ray has been kind enough he's practicing with the jumbos. But I'm talking it up, but I hope that parents hear this and realize like it's a great thing and you can do this and we can get more of the because there's I know how many kids and people out there are visually impaired and can come and start doing this. What they never knew that they could. Yeah. You know? That's awesome. Just try it. No. Well thanks thanks to Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you for having us. Appreciate it. Awesome. Joining us now, Bob Joyce, a former mass hockey president, a board member of USA hockey. And also ⁓ involved with the New England jumbos in the special hockey program. East Coast Jumbos. East Coast Jumbos. Yep. ⁓ bound to mess something up. No, you nailed Bob, welcome to ⁓ Tripping Zebras. Great to have you Hey, thanks for having Yeah, no. And now the Jumbos. ⁓ a great program. Tell us how that all came together. So ⁓ when I was president of Mass Hockey, we were at a dinner down in Orlando. We had the ⁓ winter meeting down there. And We get the mass hockey people together. And if you ever met Ray LeBlanc, he has an infectious personality. He's high energy. So I was sitting there, it was his wife, his son, my wife. We're sitting at the table, we're talking, and I was the president of Mass Hockey, and he said, Hey, I'd love to get you out to meet the jumbos, to have them on the ice, you know, get the president out here. I said, Sure. And I had, you know, retired from coaching, I'd coached for many years. ⁓ my wife said, you know. I'd coached four years past my last kid playing. Says, you know, you got mass hockey, you got all this stuff, you and you need to take a break. I'm like, okay. So I hadn't coached. Got out on the ice with these guys, came back in early February, went out, spent three hours with them, came back, tapped my wife on the shoulder and said, Guess what? I'm I'm coaching again. You know. So I've been doing that for the past three and a half seasons. It's a it's a great group, you know. I say, because of the different levels, use all your coaching skills in a matter of three hours. From your intramural to like your Pee Wee bantam level to even your high school level with our A-level players. So it's like a coaching ⁓ symposium three weeks, ⁓ three hours a week. So it's great. And now the jumbos are made up by ⁓ the discipline is special hockey. Special hockey. So it's so it's ⁓ kids with some sort of intellectual ⁓ disabilities. You know, we have a lot of kids autistic, a few kids with Down syndrome. ⁓ but any kid that's kind of on the spectrum or has an IEP is kind of what the basis is, you know, and it's it's a great group. I think they range currently from about eleven years old to our oldest player is forty one. And it's a family. You know, we have the older kids and the more developed kids stay out and work with the younger kids as helpers and volunteers for the three hours. So now how many so we have the East Coast Jumbos, got it right. ⁓ how many other teams and and who do you play? ⁓ in a you know within the season. So a lot of inter squad scrimmages. ⁓ there's another team, New England, Blizz, down here in the South Pure. They're not as large ⁓ as the Jumbos. Jumbos have about sixty players, you know. So ⁓ Jumbos play a lot of special games. They do a lot of tournaments. They'll go to a tournament like St. Louis. They're going to one in Toronto next week, ⁓ play up there. ⁓ and they also play the the older kids play like high school J V teams. Or you'll do an event with like B C women's hockey where they'll go over integrated scrimmages with them. You or Tufts. They do a lot with Tufts men's hockey. No, I have a daughter with with special needs. We try to get her down to that Blizz program and it's just like anything else, right? You just gotta drag her there and slowly slowly do the process. But we we haven't got out the door yet. But we'll we're slowly getting there. I mean she loves hockey. My old my youngest daughter plays, so she's she's a rink rat anyway, but like I just wanna I wanna get her on the ice at some point. She's here at this this great event, so like She's seen it and you know, hopefully maybe she'll she'll want to get out there. But yeah, you could pr you could bring her up to the jumbos and we're in Watertown in ⁓ the fall and then rivers through the winter. But you know, try it. You know, it's just kinda like it we do this big thing we're promoting now in mass hockey is to try hockey for free. Right. And we're gonna t capitalize heavily on the two gold medals. Between we pump something out on Thursday after the women won and something's going out today after the men won, we expect a huge jump in our numbers or bump, you know, introducing people to the game. You can imagine what the viewing numbers were. I probably excessed probably twenty five million watched the game today. It was sixteen million for the ⁓ final of the four nations and this was even better. So you know, I mean I think hopefully we see that big uptick like we saw with the nineteen eighty team, you know. Now you also referee some. Yeah. So I got patched four years ago when we were doing the whole referee crisis. ⁓ and I had to put my money where my mouth was. You know, I said, you know, I'm gonna do it. ⁓ with my role with mass hockey, US hockey, and I I don't do a lot of other games games I primarily do are the special games. I'll do work the jumbows games, you know. And it's it's officiating, but it's also coaching on the ice. Right. You you're talking to a lot to the players. I mean, probably as you do in the gang, you know, but it's Well that's well, I mean, that's the same thing in regular referee and that's what they don't understand why we're out there. We're out there coaching these kids up. And it's like, ⁓ I don't don't talk to my players while they're out there, right? So it's like even like in the typical hockey, we're we're also coaches as well, right? And fourteen below, we're out there working together coaches, referees. We're out there to make the game great and for Great experience for the kids, right? Yeah. You know, so it it it's ⁓ you have some modified rules, depending on the level. You know, ⁓ I'd say we have a very flexible blue line when it comes to offsides. You know, you you the you know, you know the players you can call offsides and know the ones you can't. They're just not gonna process. You can tell them ten times and they're still just gonna blow in over the line, but you don't really in the games it it's not about winning a lot, it's about participation. It's getting these kids on the ice. You don't know what they have to go through their whole week to get there. When they show up at the rink. They're as happy as they can be. It's like coming into your your your beer leg rugged room. Everyone's just happy. They're just so thrilled to be at the rank. And that's what brings me back, you know, to bring me back each week, to see the smiles, to get to to know the players even better. Yeah. I now I have a child that's autistic and you know played hockey for a little bit, but it was a with a regular team. Yep. And you know, th I I know these kids struggle with like loud noises, some of them are. chaos of a hockey game. And that i without a program like the jumbos, it was difficult because no one under you know, not everyone understands. No, it it it's a it's for me, you know, it's a learning experience. Well when I first went out there, I didn't understand, you know, the, you know, how to to deal with the players. You know, you you you bring a certain coaching mentality and I was always, you know, hard on the players, make a mistake, but then you learn who you can push and who you can't. Or how you connect with it's all about making connections, you know, and understanding that this player will accept certain things one way and they won't, you know, and it's like anything. You try to make them better at the start of the season, you look at what they were doing at the beginning, and hopefully you've elevated ⁓ by the end. No, it's it's such a and hockey's such a great sport to begin with. I mean, obviously this is what we're all about, right? ⁓ not that all the other sports aren't great, but hockey And you know, it's not an easy sport for kids that have certain challenges to get out there. I mean, you know, 'cause aside from the fact that you gotta learn how to skate. Right. You know, now you're dealing with trying to get a puck, you're dealing with the physical aspect, even if they're not playing check. That's a lot. Yes. No, i i it it is. But you know, ⁓ it it it it amazes me sometimes when you see some of these kids out there, the how how they're moving around the ice and you're like You know, they struggle with a lot stuff and you see them out there, you're like, this this is this is again, this is what brings it back. It just it it it it energizes your passion for the game. Right. Now, adaptive day, that's why we're here. ⁓ talk a little bit about what a day like this means for all these disciplines, all the you know, the adaptive program in general, but also especially for special hockey. Well, I mean, you know, USA hockey, mass hockey, we've always been promoting hockeys for everyone. Now we just saw the elite players win today. You know, they're the top one percent, but there's another ninety nine percent of the game, right? And that's you know, that's what special hockey is about. It's about expanding and opening up the game for different people who may have, you know, twenty years ago been excluded, you know, but now it's like we it's open arms and they have they find commonality with people in the game, people and they the families too. It's not just the the players. It's you know, these families get together and a lot of times you see the parents talking about because they're dealing with special issues that not many people deal with. So they have And understanding. But this is just about exposing all the different aspects. You know, Ray's done a tremendous job. This is like the Super Bowl of adaptive hockey today. He runs it from soup to nuts. And it's about just trying to get the information out there because there are kids like, you know, maybe there's a family out there who has a kid who says, ⁓ I don't know this is out there. You I they w they may watch the Olympics today and say, ⁓ my kid, I'd love to be able to get him involved, but I can't bring him down to he's not going to play there. But maybe he finds out about and says, Hey, ⁓ there's an opportunity for me to get my kid on the ice and just do something to try it. I mean even with the kid with special needs, like you feel like you're on islands sometimes, right? And like you don't, you know, like, ⁓ what what can we do? Can we you know, like we have a street hockey program in Wayman that she's involved in, soccer program, all these other different programs, and this ice hockey program is just just another great program that involves kids with special needs and it's awesome. Yeah, and you're around parents who understand. Right. You know what I mean? You may you put it together. When you when you may you may you may have your child in a different situation where people aren't used to, you know, the issues of dealing with kids kids with autism or otherwise and don't understand. Whereas this group you have Everyone understands exactly. And they know the personalities of each of the kids and they know who's who does what, you know, so it's really you know, it's really sweet to be a part of. I think the biggest challenge i and I remember is, you know, a lot of these kids, they don't look different than anyone else. But their behavior might be different or their understanding or their or their, you know, the way they process things. And other people don't get that. Right? And and to be around a c and have a community like that is huge. ⁓ you know? And and we do a tremendous job. And Ray does it, it's not just hockey. It it's it's it's a it's a family. And and he he is he is part of, you know, especially our older kids, like our our higher end kids, you know, they have jobs, they have other things. We'll we'll pull ⁓ in b at the d you know, when Super Bowl's coming. It's like, hey, I want you to have fun, but you know, don't do anything stupid. You know what I mean? And they and they they respect him. And he's their coach and he he he knows and he's had to get involved in time with players who've had off ice issues to bring him back in and say, Hey, if you want to be part of this program You gotta hold yourself to a higher standard. You know what I mean? It's not just, you know, so it it's it's like it's a whole community, which is, you know, but everything hockey is, you it's like it takes a village to rage it. You what mean? We all know grow up. You learn Mr. Smith would take you to game because he's taking your kids going that way, and you know, it's yeah, it's always been that way. Yeah, and it and and hockey teaches all those things that no matter who you are, and no matter what you struggle with, you learn discipline, you learn resilience. You learn hard you know, work ethic. And those are all great things. And the fact that, you know, adaptive hockey opens up the sport to everyone. And and you know, I know mass hockey ⁓ hockey's for everyone. It's just such a a cool event that ⁓ will allow other people that are here with their, you know, a level rank for their kids' game or whatever. to to kind of ⁓ see it and experience it and and you know hopefully kind of support it in certain ways. Well well I mean they'll go over and we had a sled game over here a little earlier, right? And now that's the next stage up. You USA hockey goal is the three gold medals. We got two down, the third one, you know, third one's and you and you had Kip on earlier, you know. So I mean they may watch over and they may tune in and watch the games and watch the sled games. You know, it's just you know or they may see someone have a friend say, ⁓ hey, I saw this. You know what I mean? You're looking to get your kid involved in something. It's something you know to get involved with. We also did something last fall, we had Ray ran the blind classic out of Wellesley. It was ⁓ blind hockey. Nick, you know, McCummings was involved with that earlier. And I was out there working with those guys and I wanna tell you, blew me away as far as what it was like. ⁓ y you're thinking blind hockey, like, you know, out there, these guys are flying around the ice, you know, and they're shooting this loud metal puck. You know what I mean? I said, And the coach said, Do you if you guys do gut shin pads on? I No, I said that don't get hit by it because like and you see these guys yeah, they did the props, yeah. It ripped it off your ankle. You know what I mean? It it kills. But again, a group of hockey players who, you know, they're just out there having fun, being part of the game. And it's just growing the game and making what I think is the best sport in the country even better. Now is there any ⁓ as far as national kind of level, national team special hockey, is that something that might be in the future? And are there other you know, is it I'm sure Canada has a program. ⁓ they typically you know, have program hockey is their thing. Yeah, so so special is actually well it's mass hockey special, but special and ⁓ the adaptive disciplines are all technically USA hockey. Although we call them mass, they're all kind of registered through USA hockey. I think special be tough to do an at a national level, but we have, you know, blind, you know, we have ⁓ Sled obviously, you know, but it's it's right now it's coming, it's the two it's the two hockey nations, US and Canada and then the rest of the world trying to, you know, catch up, you know. Right. We had, you know, if When they go to foreign countries, if you've ever been over to Europe, whatever, they're not quite as handicapped accessible as over here. And they're not quite they don't quite have the same rights that we have for ⁓ what we do great for our, you know, ⁓ disabled creep people. So yeah. But no, great stuff. Awesome. I think ⁓ you know, the whole adaptive program and what guys like you and and Ray and Ray, ⁓ there's two rays. Right, Ray One, Ray Two. Yep. ⁓ what you guys do for these kids is just I mean, it's amazing. Yeah, Ray Ray two is a good friend of mine. So a couple of years ago. So he he had coached the Newton North J V hockey team. And he's always been a low level, yeah, he coached the lowest level. He was great. And he he his wife was like, You know what? I need you to retire from coaching J V hockey 'cause you're out at six, nine, ten, all around. And so I said, Hey, I got a opportunity, got this program to come on over. And you said, Would you wanna try it? He came over, hooked right in. You know what I mean? He they set the hook and he's been part of it. Now he looks forward to it and the kids kids all bounce off Ray Two, you know, Ray Ray one, Ray Two. So that's awesome. That's right. Well Bob Joyce, thanks for joining us on the Zebras and in sharing, you know, your knowledge and and giving everyone an idea what special hockey is all about. I appreciate being here. Thanks, guys. Thanks. All right. Thank you. Good seeing you. Nice seeing you. Joining us now, Justin Frankel, a member of the Boston Warriors, and which is part of the ⁓ discipline of ⁓ the Warrior discipline for USA hockey. Justin, welcome to the tripping seekers. Yeah. You related to Aaron Frankel? ⁓ so we're trying to figure that out. We're trying to figure that out. I have an in with the PWHL, the fleet, so I'm trying to get my rep to get the meet greet. Please do. My my daughter's a goalie and she wants to meet her. So Like we had the fleet, the Boston fleet came to one of her practices. Like she won like the Sullivan Tire thing, so she's on the Nestle commercials. That's hilarious. That's awesome. but we were like, Where's the goalie? Yeah. Like, come on. We're gonna have the best player out there. I know, I know, she's crazy. She's the best. Yeah. It's it's awesome to watch the game and hear my last name over the loudspeaker all the time. So she's doing she's doing great, great things for us. I I do, I do. Aaron, if you see this, I do say you're my cousin, so let me know. Why not? ⁓ now warrior the warrior discipline. ⁓ explain for everyone kind of what that entails, what it encompasses, who it includes. Sure. Yeah. So we're all military veterans. ⁓ we have to have a ten percent disability rating through the VA, whether that's ⁓ you know, PTSD related, mental health, or something physical as well. ⁓ and it's it's our program is about getting veterans, ⁓ giving veterans an outlet after their time in service, especially if they're disabled. ⁓ we get out of service and we've we're lost. It's you know, we're structured for as long as we're in and then we get out and it's kinda like, All right, what do we do now? ⁓ so getting these guys back together in a team environment, the banter, you know, the locker room antics. Absolutely and ⁓ and just being around like minded guys and showing them that there is an outlet and we don't need to go down the other road that a lot of veterans do, which is the theme of today, right? Like finding commonality and bringing people together that, you know, you're all kinda all in the same boat in in all the disciplines and you know, it it Help support each other and you know. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And it's it's crazy with us too. I mean, I've played the game my entire life and some of these guys haven't. And just them asking the questions and wanting to get better and learn how to play the game, it's it's amazing. ⁓ how to watch how far they come and then to see how bad I've gone down over the years. So it's it's it's a great program. ⁓ we do take so we're only the donations that we do raise and everything, all that money goes towards the disabled players with a with a VA rating, but we don't turn any better in a way either because we want them to have an outlet as well. So they can play in other local tournaments with us, but there is certain stuff throughout the year that you have to be disabled for. So now those disabilities, they you know, they range from PTSD to Yeah, so it's it's like it a lot of a lot of our guys, you know, tinnitus, the ringing in your ears. I mean, we shoot a lot, we get blown up, we deal with all that stuff overseas. So, you know, the ringing in your ears from that to, you know, internal stuff, IBS GERD, burn pit stuff, exposure to that chemical. So, ⁓ it can be a wide variety and everybody's kinda, you know, different in their own terms on what they went through and what they've dealt with. ⁓ and a lot of my guys I know are rated on the PTSD scale because of what we what we served and what we did over there. So they, you know, are getting that rating through the VA, which kind of helps. But now that allows them to be in this and have the outlet. So Yeah. Now you were an army. ⁓ thank you for your service. ⁓ no, seriously. And and I got to referee that when you guys played the Bruins alumni ⁓ a month ago or so, I got to referee that game and and it's just cool to see, you know, 'cause we're obviously we're big fans of the veterans. We do a lot with Warrior for Life Fund and the Navy SEALs. It's great to s have you guys. H hockey is just such a therapeutic tool for a lot of people, but especially veterans who are kind of struggling with a lot of stuff. Absolutely. I mean, there's no better therapy, especially I mean, like I said, I've been in this game my whole life. And when I got out of the military, I didn't jump right back into hockey. It was a couple of years and then I I skated once. Somebody invited me out for ⁓ a pickup skate and I obviously fell right back in love with it and realized that I I needed that. So now I I won't go. an extended period of time without playing and now being the president of the Warriors. I don't have to worry about that. We got ice all the time. So No, I mean you do miss it and there's like, you know, ways to stay in the game too, right? You got ref and coaching, athletic trainers, you know, all sorts of different things that you can do now in hockey. And like even for me, right? Like I don't play anymore, but I love getting out and practice with my daughter. It's just like you're right. Right. It's just like it just yeah. It's something that it's always like especially hockey plays, right? Just something you love. Yeah. And our guys look forward to Like I said, it's a big outlet. Like when we have big events coming up, the Bruins alumni game or, you know, having Philly up here this weekend's been amazing. ⁓ we got to know those guys really well last night, playing outdoor and then obviously indoor today, but also the the food and the drinks last night. So it's it's awesome to meet a bunch of Warriors from different places. There's there's teams all over the US, ⁓ which is it's growing even more and it's it's awesome to see. So the national tournament is in April and it's out in Dallas. So that's gonna be a lot of fun out there and You know, there's guys in St. Louis, Chicago, and we're trying to co mingle with them and get them to come out here too and us to go out there. So it's it brings the travel atmosphere in too, which we can include the families with, which is nice. ⁓ so and see different parts of the US that some of these guys haven't been to and and I haven't, you know, been out there. So we referee pro hockey. I tell people we travel the country on someone else's dying. Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure. Yep. Now one thing that the SEALs talk about, ⁓ is the team aspect. So in the military, obviously you know, being there for the guy next to you is so important, which is very similar to hockey. ⁓ do you find that to be the same thing as far as like kind of getting back like you said, you're out and that's it. Yeah. That kinda gives you that similar experience, that camaraderie, that, you know, looking out for each other and that kind of thing. Yeah, a hundred percent. ⁓ you know, we like I said, we have guys that have never played before that are joining just to be around other veterans and learn the game. ⁓ because they've watched it or they've always, you know, been been wanting to learn and never had the outlet to. ⁓ but back on the team atmosphere, yeah. I mean, my guys get ramped up. The text chains go off the charts when we have an event that's coming up and everybody's psyched and the my email's off the chart too. These guys are messaging me, hey, what are we wearing? What time we meeting? Where are we going after? What are we doing? So it's it's, you know, everybody and that cohesion builds as the program builds. ⁓ and then, you know, I got guys all the time, like we had a couple that couldn't make it. yesterday and today and they're bummed. They're like, dude, I had plans, the wife did this or I didn't know about that. And they're bummed. When's the next one I'll be there? So it you're right. It brings that that team camaraderie back, that cohesion back. And we can talk about anything. I mean if somebody in our program is going through something, you know, we we face it head on with them and we gain that that circle back and we make sure that our guys are good. That's great. That's awesome. Now ⁓ you were deployed, I'm sorry. And girls. No no We we we do that all the time. ⁓ you were deployed. I was. And like we had John Eccles retired Navy C along, we've had Captain Crowley, Aaron Badogian. ⁓ you know, some of ⁓ shared some stories. Is there a story you can tell us? 'Cause we're f we always are fascinated because you know, yeah our hardest thing was ⁓ maybe a game in Richmond where you know we had multiple fights. You were in it. Yeah, yeah. I mean not so much on the story level, but I try to tell people they're like, Hey, what was it like over there? And I said, Well, just imagine for the next week when you wake up in the morning and you go out to your car, think to yourself that you might not come home. And that's the biggest thing to get in your head when you're over there. Like you're in it for everybody that's next to you. And we're we're making it home. And that's that's the mentality you gotta have. And and I was lucky, I was a Cav Scout and I was lucky to be in a platoon with a lot of guys that had deployed to Ramadi and Fallujah and were really in the thick of stuff at the hard times. And they were all on point. So I got to learn from them and yeah, exactly. I got to learn from them and and they had my back and I had theirs and that was just kinda, you know, and then you gotta when you're over there, you gotta joke, you gotta laugh, you gotta figure it out. I mean, in the little downtime we had, ⁓ our sniper NCO played hockey his whole life. So we let we asked Command if we were allowed to buy rollerblades, because we had this tiny little black top with one basketball hoop. They said, as long as you wear helmets, you guys can skate on your downtime. So the little bit that we had. saucing the ball around hanging out and then when we got back to Germany we found out that there was a ⁓ Army Europe team. So we ended up trying out for that. It's basically men's league. It's nothing crazy. ⁓ but we got to play against the Air Force teams, we got to play against other post teams. So it was cool being in Europe and being back in the game again out there too. So that's really cool. Did you wear ⁓ Did you wear your combat helmets when you when you no, no, we we ordered we ordered Bauer helmets. I wasn't wearing that. Those things are heavy at times, man. Yeah. We wear them all day. It was nice to put a different bucket on for a little bit. I'm a supervisor in Elena Cocky. We just had the Army Air Force series this weekend and they killed each other. Absolutely killed each other. Yeah, it gets it gets crazy, especially that that rivalry. ⁓ yeah, it's a good one. It's one of the most underrated ⁓ rivalries I think in college hockey. It's like that they they're they're out for ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His pride. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. ⁓ what's up next for you guys just played Philly in a little series here. What's up next for ⁓ the Boston War? So we got two things coming up in March. This will round out February for us. ⁓ March seventh, we're bringing a team down to play the Barnes Air Force Base team. ⁓ Barnes Stormers, I believe they're called. ⁓ and they have a a community on post, an organization on post that brings in donation money and gives it to families in need that are on post if they have something traumatic happen or they're they're going through something. So we set up a charity game against them and it's drill weekend. So all the guys are gonna be around. So the barn should be full, ⁓ and we should raise a bunch of money. And we've never played them before. So we're we're trying to go down there and and not let them take the win away, that's for sure. And then after that, ⁓ right here at Lavelle, we're gonna play in the Kingston Police Classic at the end of March. So yeah, there's a tournament here end of March. ⁓ So we got two teams in that. We have a C level team and a D level team. Yeah. ⁓ I'd love to Yeah, I've done a couple of those different tournaments. Like I every once in a while someone will reach out. But like I assign referees too. So like yeah. If if you ever need ⁓ Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then yeah, you ever want to be a bench coach too. You don't need a ref, you can just come hang out. You don't want me on the bench. ⁓ I'm the only one that could get tossed out of a game like that. We'll love it. We'll love it. ⁓ but yeah, so that's That's what's going on in March. You know, we're gonna go to Springfield Mass and then we're back here ⁓ for that last weekend. And then ⁓ April will be Dallas. We're not bringing a team out to Dallas, but I'm gonna go and look at the tier levels and see how we really stack up. So that way when the winter classic hits in ⁓ October, we'll be ready to go for that. So pre-scout, love it. Yeah. Well Justin Frankel, thanks for joining us. Thank you for your service. ⁓ from the Boston Warriors, we appreciate your time. Absolutely. Thank you guys. Appreciate you. Awesome. Joining us now, Tony McGahey from the Boston. Defenders. And Tony, welcome to the Chirping Zebras. And thank you for having me here. Now ⁓ you're the defenders are the deaf hockey. Now ⁓ explain a little bit about what that's like playing ⁓ as someone that's that's hearing impaired. ⁓ well we prefer the word deaf or hard of hearing, but not hearing impaired. We're trying to get away from the word hearing impaired. ⁓ here I am thinking I'm doing the right thing. Sorry about that. Well you didn't get you didn't get the latest memo. No, I didn't. I didn't. So but the Defenders make sense. So I should have known that. But Right. Well, everyone has to learn. Yes. One hundred percent. Gotta keep it going. ⁓ so ⁓ I coached ⁓ the Defenders and ⁓ we're just trying to start it up with Ray last year. ⁓ I just try to find all ⁓ kids that ⁓ that are deaf to play hockey. And we're starting out small in Massachusetts. We're trying to grow that. And ⁓ with ⁓ Ray's support, Ray LeBlanc. ⁓ he's been very supportive of us. So he's been helping us get a uniform for the kids. ⁓ but we're not as big as the other disciplines like special needs or blind hockey or sled hockey. 'Cause they all have their groups. And the deaf hockey player i is everywhere. We don't have a centralized location in Massachusetts. We have kids in Framingham, ⁓ Felmouth, ⁓ Belmont. You know, it's everywhere. So it's and it's a big ⁓ eight different too. We have kids youngest seven, eight and older, ⁓ sixteen or eighteen. So it's trying to to form a team. But the eight different is hard. But what's important is all the deaf kids get together. We try to find ice time. ⁓ get together and have ⁓ access for the deaf and hard of hearing hockey players. And like I'm a coach, I'm deaf and I played the game my whole life. And they can have someone that represents them. And I can ⁓ give instruction in sign language and we have interpreters with us on the ice if the kid doesn't know sign language. May use the interpreter ⁓ for support. Now you did play hockey your whole life? Yes. Now did you were you deaf playing growing up? I was born deaf. Okay. and I played ⁓ youth hockey in ⁓ with Randolph, ⁓ the the Mohawk organization. Yep. And I went to high school at Randolph High School. My coach with ⁓ Buddy Yandel. ⁓ yeah, no buddy. ⁓ yeah. So Keith and Brian Yandel's dad. He was a good guy. Then I transferred to Newton North High School. They had a deaf program there. I had my coach Jack Heaty. And then I went to Northeastern as a walk on. I had Bruce Crowder as a coach there. Bruce is the best. Yeah, now what what was it like for you as someone who's deaf playing with people who aren't? What were the kind of the challenges you had? ⁓ yeah. Not hearing the whistle. Like sometime I don't hear the whistle, you know, I will hit someone after the whistle. So I I ref I I don't know, I could have ref you for all I know, but I ref plenty of deaf players. And you know, they always shoot the puck after the whistle, right? And it's always like and the coach will tell you that, hey, sixteen, he's hard of hearing, so if he shoots the puck, boom. So put your arms up or do make a signal. So like I would blow the whistle and if I knew you were on the ice, I would go, hey, hey, hey. And then that would be like my signal for someone that plays with depth and now was that communicated through your whole career or is that something you dealt with? So you kinda sense that the player didn't if you know what the g ⁓ what's going on with the game, like off side, you it's a slow down. Right. But a few instances I would take a slap shot after the whistle. Like usually the coach would like warn the other team. coast, like let the goalie know, you have to be ready for the slapshot if he doesn't hear it. Right, right. So you don't get, you know, cross. Yeah, two and ten and then yeah, everyone's coming at ya, yeah. Yeah. But ⁓ like I've also played in the Death Olympics. So I've been part of that since nineteen ninety five. I I made the team when I was seventeen years old and we played in Finland and we got the gold medal in ⁓ Finland. ⁓ So I've been on the national team and I I'm also one of the coaches now for the USA Deaf men's hockey team. So I've played in many ⁓ competitions. Like in ninety five, Finland, ninety nine we went to Switzerland. ⁓ two thousand three went to Sweden. And ⁓ two thousand seven we won the gold again in Solway City, Utah. But in tw two thousand eleven they had to cancel it because the guy running the Olympics in Slovakia was ⁓ embezzling money and some teams were already there and nothing was set up. And we were ready to fly out to ⁓ Slovakia from Lake Platin. And we got a phone call in Albany in the box that it canceled. So we were driving to New York City and then like we all went home the next day. With the letter Devastation. Among the players on the team. Now ⁓ it's very cool to have a gold medal winner. What's it like to have that gold medal hung over your neck? 'Cause that's I mean we had Kip Saint Germain, we've G. G. Marvin. We ask everyone, it's kinda like a Stanley Cup, right? What's that like? Yeah, it's amazing. I I didn't appreciate it in nineteen ninety five 'cause I was seventeen years old. I thought we were winning again. In nineteen ninety nine we got the silver. And went down the bronze in tweeting. But as I got older, I I had to get in better shape. So I was getting out of shape. So I focused on myself to help the team. So I worked out hard, trained hard, and then that helped getting at ⁓ the gold medal in two thousand seven. That's amazing. Now, what's it like to for these kids ⁓ have this opportunity that you didn't have when you were a little? to play on a deaf program? Well, ⁓ I coach ⁓ the deaf Olympic team now. ⁓ I don't know. Our coach used to be Jeff Stour from University of Wisconsin. ⁓ yeah. He was also a coach for the US ⁓ sled hockey team. He was the head coach for them. But I I 'cause I tore my A DL going to Finland ⁓ in twenty eleven. And so and I asked if I could coach. He's like so I came out to Buffalo for a tryout and I helped coach the kid. He's like, All right, sure. So I went to to Russia in two thousand fifteen in Canty Manza. It's like in Siberia. So it's pretty cold there. but so I enjoy giving back to the kids 'cause some of the k kids I've known is from ⁓ the Deaf hockey school in Chicago. ⁓ the San Makita school. for the deaf and hard of hearing. Yep. ⁓ so it's based out of Chicago. ⁓ so I've been going there sit down with the kid. ⁓ so I've known some of these guys when they were little, so they kinda looked up to me. So it's nice to to be able to coach them as men for the USA deaf men's hockey team. But I also have ⁓ an older deaf brother, Ricky. He was one of the first campers at the deaf hockey school which started in nineteen seventy three. ⁓ so Dan Akita could relate, okay, he immigrated here from ⁓ Czechoslovakia. So as he moved to Canada, he didn't know the language here. So he could relate that people not understanding ⁓ what's going on. Like as he didn't speak English, so he could understand how deaf hockey players feel like He went into it with a a Chicago businessman, ⁓ Uncle Irv Tianabet. We call him Uncle Irv. So Uncle Irv told Stan, like, You're gonna help me run a deaf hockey school because his son was a goalie. And so the coach wasn't playing him because he was deaf. So he's like, If this is happening to my kid, it must be happening to all the other kids in the country. And so my brother Ricky ⁓ well one of my neighbors, my mother just told me a couple of weeks ago, said that they saw on a Bruins game that they announced there was a deaf hockey school happened in Chicago and they called my parents. So back in nineteen seventy three, watching a Bruins game, my father looked into it and we've been going to a hee hut ever since for the Stamakita School for Deaf in Hutter Henry. So my brother has only missed one year. of the hockey camp at the player and a staff or coach. Wow, that's amazing. And is that the only ⁓ is that the only hockey camp for ⁓ deaf? Yes, it's primarily the only deaf hockey camp and hopefully coach and the defender can be the second deaf hockey camp. Yeah. But it a lot of these kids go to the to the deaf hockey school in Chicago. So So we're trying to keep the connection here in Massachusetts or in Rhode Island to to give these kids like th they just love being with each other because they can communicate with each other. You know, it's like like myself growing up, I'm just like the quiet one in the locker room. Right. Well, just everyone is talking. I I'm not good with group talking 'cause I get lost. So I just keep to myself. So if I have a conversation with one, two or three guys I can follow along. But I just keep to myself. But when they get together for the deaf hockey camp or international competition, everyone had assets the information. We just stand in the locker room, we're all laughing. So we're all in together. So we have a full asset. Yeah. So that's what I wanna bring to the to the Boston defenders. Cool. And we'll we'll make sure that we include the information on how to get in touch with the Boston Defenders and also with the Stan Makita Hockey School. So we'll make sure we get that up. All right. Awesome. Tony, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Good luck with the rest of the season. Absolutely. Thank you. Joining us now, David Crandell and Brian Hughes from Standing Amputee Hockey. Guys, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having us Thanks for being at the rank. ⁓ no. Did you get to the range right? I got the names right. Right? I only had to practice it a few times. tell us a little bit about. Standing amputee hockey, what it entails, who does it in you know, ⁓ include because it's a discipline under ⁓ the adaptive hockey. Sure. Well, ⁓ of course ⁓ standing amputee is hockey and we think of it more ⁓ if in the regard of like typical hockey because we don't we play standing up, we play with typical equipment. ⁓ when people think ⁓ people who with amputations, they think maybe they are are playing sled hockey. But this is sort of the upright version of typical hockey. Gotcha. And you know, the origins of are now ⁓ started more than twenty-five years ago. we had a number of young players that were interested in were playing ⁓ typical hockey on their local club teams. ⁓ but at the rise of sled hockey and getting into the Paralympics, there was a interest in trying to create a national team and a national program to have opportunities to play nationally and internationally. So The organization is based here in Massachusetts. And ⁓ we've been growing the game for the last twenty five years. That's awesome. And Brian, you play. So I've yeah, so I've started with them when I was, I think probably fifteen. Started with the ⁓ US team, ⁓ competed internationally, ⁓ in world championships against Canada, the c other countries we had Canada, Finland, Latvia, Russia, Czech, ⁓ and it It grew that there was enough of these players and countries to form an international world championship that we competed in. ⁓ so the it's definitely grown and a lot of the the people that you would see skating, you wouldn't think that they're amputees. A lot of them, if they have a pro so I'm a below elbow. ⁓ I use a an elbow pad and just put my stick in there and play like that. But there's a lot of guys that use a prosthetic and have a glove on and you have no idea that they're missing a hand. And there's also guys with ⁓ below knee amputee or above knee. And same thing. They're skating, they have a prosthetic under there, and you have no clue. So it's pretty amazing to see. That is amazing, especially with the with the skating part of it, right? Yeah. Like that's awesome. Yeah. Well, you know, hockey is a team sport. And one of the unique things about standing amputee is you have players, both men and women, ⁓ some with limb differences in upper limb, some with lower. And so, you know. ⁓ there's different skills in hockey, stick handling, skating ability. And so at the international level, we have a classification and scoring system. So we have a way of ⁓ rating patient ⁓ players ⁓ based on their ability and therefore you have an even amount of skill on the ice. And so it's it it really increases the level of the game. So you don't penalize ⁓ teams if you have ⁓ upper limb versus lower limb skaters. And is that something that you match up during the game? Yeah. So so in addition to actually having the matchups for the players, the coaches also needed to be able to have the right amount of points on the ice to make sure that they ⁓ they're not ⁓ yeah you know ⁓ playing unfairly. So that's a different different thing they have to do. So I was you it's a point system, one, two, or three. So since I'm a below elbow, I was a three. So in theory, I'm the most points. I should be the best guy out there. Not not always the case, you know. ⁓ But the point system was to help like, all right, if to level the field. If you just put out a bunch of guys that are only missing a hand, well, they should be really fast and be able to move well, right? So the below elbow is a three. I think a bel above elbow would sh go down to a one. Yep. ⁓ below knee is a two, above knee is a one. But you you could have so and you can only have twelve points on the ice at a time. So you have to match up, and then if you get a penalty, that makes sense, it goes down. You can only have, I think, nine points at a time. So there's like there's some thought going out there, you know, and you can't just change up for whoever, you know, left wing, right wing. It's gotta be you're gonna be going for your points. Yeah. Yeah. So everybody's not this so everybody has a sticker on their helmet that would say three, two, or one. Yeah. So it would be the officials' job to make sure that when they do sit, you know, for a face off that they have the the points are all you th those are the kind of things that's fascinating to people that don't know about the intricacies of these different disciplines. Right. ⁓ that's something that Yeah, classically. Each one's unique, right? Yeah. So when you look at ⁓ Paralympic sports or sports that involve ⁓ athletes with disabilities, there usually is a classification system that tries to level the playing field. In this case, we want to make sure that ⁓ you highlight the ability of the player and you don't want to penalize for their for their impairment. The blind does that too. They put like more coverage on or you know, on some people to make it even, right? Yeah. But to Brian's point, I think a lot of times people come to the rank. And if you're not really paying attention, if you don't ⁓ realize someone is either paying with a prosthesis, you just see really good hockey. And, you know, the optimate goal is to see people ⁓ you know, ⁓ have a competitive game and also then have the opportunity to ⁓ play nationally, ⁓ have better competition. And, you know, being part of ⁓ both mass hockey and part of the USA hockey system, you know, we have the ability to then represent the United States ⁓ internationally. Which was an amazing thing. ⁓ yeah. Now youth hockey wise, you know, the national level, like any any part of hockey, right? You have that youth hockey level. Yes. What's that grassroots? Well, we you know, you know, historically when we started the program, we had younger players, but we also started with a youth program and Brian was, you know, yeah obviously a standout with our youth program who rapidly went up to the national team. ⁓ but I mean, starting any type of disability program takes some effort. But sustaining it over a period of time also is harder. And you really always want to be having new opportunities. If you saw the folks on the ice tonight ⁓ out on the ice tonight, there were some kids who were pretty young. You know, we want to create opportunities for them also to, you know, play on their local able body teams, but then ⁓ you know, get together and and then play for ⁓ national international competition. I was watching upstairs with Bob Joyce and he was pointing out this one plays, and I like how The older kids come back and they help out with the younger kids. So it's not just like, yeah, it's not just you're not just out there ⁓ for yourself, you know, you're out there actually giving back and teaching. So that's a that's great part of the program. Yeah. And we're fortunate, again, you know, Mass Hockey as a as a standout affiliate within USA hockey has given us a lot of support. There's also organizations based in the state of Massachusetts that also create opportunities. There's a local organization called Helping Hands, which is ⁓ family support group for kids with ⁓ congenital limb loss. And you know, Brian has been a participant of that program, but also they have local events and then we go back and then provide opportunities for them to get on the ice. So we try to work with the local community to create other opportunities for you know we want more hockey players, right? Right. And ⁓ if we're ever gonna really beat the Canadians, we need to do anything right and so therefore we always want to, you know, create opportunities for young people to participate. Great. Now did you play hockey as a kid? Yeah. And now were you able bodied? Yeah, yeah. No, I played on a normal team, youth team, high school all the way up, you know, played varsity, ⁓ all that. ⁓ and was kind of never knew of many other kids in the area that were missing in a hand or an arm and and playing hockey. There was one other who's local, ⁓ and we actually played each other in playoffs one time. But y he played with a prosthetic with a glove and nobody would ever know. You know. sometimes when sometimes when our guys get together, it's the first time that they get a chance to play with players ⁓ of similar skill. Yeah. No, there was a ⁓ there was a I I wanna say he was from Everett. Way back in the day, you were playing actually in ⁓ in hockey night in Boston. ⁓ there was there was a player and he was the only one that I knew of. ⁓ of course I gave him a holding penalty of all things. ⁓ not not realizing he w we had a laugh about it. But when we got started, again now celebrating twenty-five years, one of the players who had ⁓ actually skated ⁓ on the varsity ⁓ team at Harvard was a guy named Mike Janelle. He was a baloney amputee who was one of ⁓ their goalies. He didn't play a lot in college, but so we had evidence that somebody with an amputation could play at the highest, you know, highest collegiate level. So ⁓ and you know, there's been ⁓ players in Canada. Who's played juniors ⁓ with ⁓ either hand or even a below-knee amputation. So the skill level is certainly there. And again, we're just trying to create ways to, you know, pull that opportunity together. And then ⁓ we're hoping ⁓ we didn't meet the criteria to make it to the Paralympics. ⁓ the last time ⁓ the winter games were in North America, and that was in Vancouver. But we see an opportunity, believe it or not, in twenty thirty-four. 'Cause the games are coming back to Salt Lake. Yep. And the host country has an opportunity to create opportunities for new sports. So we're hoping to work together, ⁓ with that collective goal and see. ⁓ we did it we did a demon demonstration in two thousand and two at the Salt Lake Games. ⁓ wow. So it'll be nice to be able to go back and say that we're a full competitive sport in twenty thirty four. Now we ⁓ we have a ⁓ deep connection with the Warrior for Life Fund and they threw hockey ⁓ you know, use it as a kind of a coping and a ⁓ you know ⁓ restorative kind of program and they do have an amputee program. do you have any crossover or kind of you know with the military? Well we've done first of all ⁓ you you the USA hockey warriors program is something that came out of the USA disabled discipline. And so we were actually addressed enough. And you know so you know that has been one of the more successful program. ⁓ we have had folks that participate in both Warriors and also have an amputation so they can play with us and it's really nice when that happens. ⁓ obviously, ⁓ if somebody's playing Warriors and they have limb loss, they also can play on their local ⁓ adult team. So, you know, there's lots of opportunity, but again to play ⁓ uniquely as a full amputee team, we need obviously more players and we need some sort of the international ⁓ ⁓ governing bodies to ⁓ create opportunities for that to happen. So we're you know we're working both locally and then hopefully within USA hockey to create those opportunities. Very cool. Now what's up next ⁓ for you, Brian, as far as ⁓ just trying to get more involved with ⁓ working with Ray ⁓ with mass mass hockey. me and him we're exploring opportunities to try to host maybe it's once a month or every other week where we get an hour of ice for the local kids that you saw out here. ⁓ and just to get an hour of ice to have them to come skate and skate with each other. Well I remember when I was a kid, it was I was I don't know, twelve or thirteen and there was an hour of ice, I think it was once a month in Canton or ⁓ I forget which rank, but it was like ten o'clock on a Wednesday night and my dad would bring me like, Why am I going to this? What do you and it's and it was because there's other kids there, other amputee kids. So it was to try to grow the game, see that there are other kids there, see, you know, the parents to see that You know, there are other kids that are playing that are older or younger and there's opportunity for them. So for me, it's working with Ray to try to get something and and start something in this area for those kids, you know, just to get them all on the ice at the same time. If it's once a month, it's once a month. Just just to get them out there. But again, for the it's now I realize what my dad was doing. It was for for him to see other kids, you know, and for to talk with other parents that are going through similar things. So ⁓ now that I'm at this age, I wanna, you know, get more kids out there so the parents can see they, you know, they have questions. It's there there are more players out there that just don't know about it yet. You know what I mean? Or kids that are that might be missing an arm or a leg and think, well, I can't play hockey. What do mean? But if we get this word out to them that like, no, there are plenty of other kids and adults trying to grow it like that, I think is the the next step for for us to get the the youth more involved. Yeah, it's been one of the it's been one of the amazing things is we have a new player show up and this is their first opportunity to skate with a group of MPT and they look at the solutions that individual players come to either hold the stick or do things differently, and then they can modify ⁓ their technique. There are prostheses with terminal devices that are made to hold a hockey stick. That only came out of people trying to find out with unique solutions. A lot of times those solutions ⁓ need to be modified and adjusted. So it's always interesting with people kind of checking everything out, like how you're doing that. Not even the technology, yeah. ⁓ it's yeah. And it's come so far, technology wise, I'm sure. Well, ⁓ obviously the I think the the the skill of the player has risen and so the expectations you're gonna have a matching of the equipment. Yeah. Now how did you get involved? ⁓ how did I get involved? Well, ⁓ as a r as an So to date. Yeah, Dr. Dave. I just wondered how did I get involved? Yeah. So so I'm a rehab physician. I work at Spaulding. I had a sports medicine fellowship. I had been ⁓ a local volunteer at a number of ⁓ sporting events. I had been the team physician for ⁓ championship teams ⁓ for track and field. ⁓ I was at a local meeting and I met a couple guys who were involved with the local sled hockey program. And I again had not been exposed to Sledarchy. And they invited me to go to the rank. And so I showed up at the rank one night. ⁓ again, this was another the situation when it was the ⁓ the MDC at the rank at Morrissey Boulevard, and they got donated ice from nine to eleven on a Wednesday night. And ⁓ so I showed up at the rank and this and I said, This is pretty cool. I said, No, no, you gotta get out there. I showed up in a suit. I had just come from something and I literally took off my suit jacket, but they got me out there. And One of the unique things for me as a rehab physician, I'm always trying to encourage our patients to get out and return to recreation. But this was the first opportunity for me to actually participate and get out and play as an athlete. So I could officially actually check my own patients. That was which was kind of fun. So I actually played ⁓ with Kip and Joe Howard. I was on the member of the Boston Blades. And again, this was back in the late 90s, ⁓ just before they went off to Nagano to play in the first ⁓ Paralympic games. And it, you know, so it was that experience getting involved with just hockey as an opportunity. And then literally I was asked to literally say, Well, why can't ⁓ we create an upright team? And we were actually, I mean, we were trying to recruit Mike Janelle as a upright goalie to play sled hockey. He ⁓ I want to play, keep playing upright. And so we said we kind of looked at it as a challenge. And so In 2000, we took a group of six guys over to the IHF World Championships, which were in St. Petersburg that year, and we matched up against six Russians, six or seven Russians, between the between periods of the old timers game at the IHF World Championship. And that was really when it got started. And we came back. People said, hey, this was lot of fun. We need to build this out. And ⁓ then the registrar in Massachusetts hockey said, Well, you gotta go out to USA hockey and get this going. And that's how it got started. Awesome. That's awesome. We think it's an awesome thing. And ⁓ Brian Hughes, Dr. Dave. Yes, sir. We appreciate you coming on and kind of sharing your experience and also getting the word out there that this is an option, ⁓ especially for those kids like you said that might think I can't play hockey. Yeah. Absolutely. Everyone can play. Yeah. So today is a very unique day. We're celebrating the USA hockey men's bowl medal victory. Yes. ⁓ you know, it's been forty ⁓ I think forty six forty six years since nineteen eighty, yeah. Yeah, I was a senior in high school then. ⁓ but, you know, we always make ⁓ Bob Johnson always have the comment it's a great day. Every day is a great day for hockey. Absolutely. But we've always modified it. It's a great day. Every day's a great day for everybody. So anybody, whatever how they get to the rank, either in a playing in a sled or visually impaired or warriors, special hockey, standing amputee, hockey help us bridge all that together. Awesome. Great stuff. I always say before a hockey game and then I referee it's a great day for hockey. So it always is. Well thank you guys for coming on. We appreciate it. Thank you. Adaptive hockey day. Just ⁓ all these disciplines, like we mentioned in the opening, we take it for granted. Yep. All the ice, you know, able bodied people get and you know, all the options we have. And this is just a a great thing that, you know, ma ⁓ mass adaptive hockey and Ray LeBlanc. It it brings it brings groups of kids together that that are alike. And you know, they find commonality and you know, they get to enjoy ⁓ as a team, not necessarily like as an individual when like if you're playing with typical kids, you know, you're you're the you're the quiet person in the corner or something like that. Now it's everybody's in the same boat. We're all here together and we can, you know, really, really have a good time and I and I think that's the great thing about hockey, you know, that community, that camaraderie, the locker room, that team the locker room all of it. And to give these kids that opportunity that Like you said, if they're playing, you know, on a regular high. And it's not even just kids, it's adults, adults, it's everybody, right? It's ⁓ it it's a very inclusive men, women, kids, all walks of life. It's it's great. And and you know, the international ⁓ tournaments that they've been involved in, we all know about sled hockey. Yeah. We had Kip Saint Germain on, ⁓ Golden. The travel opportunities you have in it, like it it's yeah, i I mean, it's an unbelievable program and I suggest you go check it out. Absolutely. Yeah. Check out ⁓ on masshockey.org and ⁓ USA hockey as well, because it's under the USA hockey umbrella, adaptive hockey, go check it out. ⁓ some remarkable people. Yes, ⁓ not only playing but also ⁓ coaching and organizing it all and I wanna just thank Ray LeBlanc and you know, Mass Hockey, USA hockey for everything you know they've done for this this great day, this great event. ⁓ there's there's a lot of long hours these these guys do put in behind the scenes ⁓ to make this day go and you know everybody that helped volunteer and and make this day, thank you. That was it was today was a great little switch. Yeah. 'Cause you know, we've had some high high visibility guests on and this was a nice switch. So ⁓ and all happening at one of our favorite arenas, the Love a Lice Arena. Yeah. Right in Rockland. You can check them out as well. So that's gonna do it for this episode. ⁓ we wanna thank our sponsors, the referees Chris, and also Damon Financial LLC. Also wanna thank AOA Studios, ⁓ the best place to go tape ⁓ anything you want to tape in Beverly, up at the Cummings Center. And ⁓ we had Mike and Z here all day, which has been awesome. Wanna also remind you to find us on the social medias the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course the TikTok. I try to get the TikTok with the gum. I already snapped it before I could get it on That was good though. You always nail that line. It's like home of the bucks on full ride. If you haven't watched that, check it out on YouTube. And ⁓ check out, we got some new merch, new quarter zips, also our lace hoodies. Check that out on chirpingzebras.com. And make sure you check out March 15th. Make sure you check us out live at Laugh Boston with Terry Ryan and Jonathan Diaby for the Chirping Zebras and Choice E St. Patrick's Day blowout. For Gino Bender Jr. I'm Mark Riley coming to you from Lovell Arena. Saying so long. We'll see you next time right here on the Tripping Zebras.