Latest / Replay Reviews / Betrayed ⏬ - Detroit: BH - Part 5

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Betrayed ⏬ - Detroit: BH - Part 5 · Replay Reviews

0:00
In this episode, we almost murder somebody over a mitten.
0:03
I have to restart that because my voice cracked so hard.
0:07
I was gonna say, let's keep it.
0:08
So hard.
0:09
And so long as somebody...
0:12
I couldn't even like stop the word.
0:14
It just kept going.
0:15
It sounds like the beginning of a Queen song.
0:19
We almost murder somebody over a mitten.
0:22
I guess we're getting a Heavy Rain movie in 2038?
0:26
And why'd she stop running?
0:27
Thank you for coming back from our replay reviews.
0:30
My name is Leah.
0:31
And my name is Cathy.
0:33
We are two friends who are here to replay, review,
0:35
and analyze your favorite video games.
0:37
And since Cathy has never seen the games before,
0:40
it helps me view them through her fresh eyes,
0:42
almost like I'm discovering them again for the first time.
0:44
We hope it'll be a similar experience for you.
0:53
November 9th, 413 PM.
0:56
This is about four hours after Marcus's demonstration
0:59
that we saw in the last episode.
1:01
Connor locates Amanda in the garden.
1:04
It's cold.
1:05
We've seen the weather change multiple times.
1:09
I'm curious if that has anything to do with
1:11
the decisions that we make.
1:14
Like in this instance,
1:15
he very tentatively steps on the frozen pond
1:18
and we see him multiple times, like looking down at his feet.
1:22
Is he literally on thin ice with Amanda right now?
1:25
Is this what we're seeing?
1:26
That's a really good analogy.
1:30
Because he looks cautious when he first steps on it.
1:34
So Amanda gets right to it.
1:36
She says that the country is on the verge of a civil war
1:40
and about the deviants,
1:42
humans have no choice but to destroy them.
1:45
Amanda is disappointed in Connor
1:47
for not getting information out of Kamsky.
1:50
So he must have designed Amanda, right?
1:55
Kamsky must have designed Amanda.
1:57
So I'm just confused on Amanda's character.
2:00
How does she know all this information,
2:02
whether she's an android or a human?
2:05
I don't think she's android or a human.
2:07
In that picture we learned she's dead, right?
2:10
I think she's just like the processing system.
2:14
Okay, which would make sense.
2:16
That's the impression that I get.
2:18
But Connor seems mad that I feel like he thinks she lied to him.
2:23
Are you getting the sense that there's lots of tension between these two right now?
2:28
Definitely.
2:29
He used to lean into her more than Hank,
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but now the rules have reversed that he trusts Hank more than Amanda.
2:36
Continuing on this tension, Connor says,
2:38
I'm not a unique model, am I?
2:40
I think it's at this point where he realizes that he's about to be replaced.
2:45
He knows that Amanda knows he didn't shoot the girl at Kamsky's
2:50
and he knows he's on the verge of becoming a human.
2:53
He's on the verge of becoming a deviant.
2:55
He's finally starting to be worried enough that he needs to change the way he's approaching things.
3:04
But this just is the most heated exchange we've seen between them so far.
3:09
Amanda asked Connor if he's experienced anything unusual recently.
3:13
Any doubts or conflicts?
3:16
Do you feel anything for these deviants?
3:18
Or for Lieutenant Anderson?
3:23
I'm beginning to have thoughts that are not part of my program.
3:31
Maybe I've been compromised too.
3:35
Then this leads to a big drop in relationship.
3:39
He's no longer trusted by Amanda.
3:41
They're now neutral.
3:43
I feel like it needed to happen to progress the game though.
3:46
And I'm surprised it took a while.
3:48
It took so long for Connor's relationship with Amanda to go south.
3:54
I didn't feel like lying to her was the right move because she seems to already know something's up.
3:58
Otherwise, she wouldn't even be asking this question.
4:01
Again, if Amanda is a processing system, there is no way to win her.
4:06
I think it was in the last episode when Hank asks,
4:09
how do I know you're not a deviant?
4:11
And Connor says, I self-test regularly.
4:13
Do you think Amanda is the self-testing that he's referencing?
4:19
I don't think it's Amanda being the self-testing,
4:23
but it's the programming that Amanda probably is part of.
4:28
I think Amanda's objective is kind of the unknown
4:31
because that would go into why is she asking him questions about his current state.
4:38
So Connor rejoins the real world to see Hank being unassigned to the deviancy case.
4:42
As the FBI is now taking over.
4:46
The way he looks at Hank is just perfect, but Hank is not happy.
4:53
And I wrote in my notes, the many faces of Hank
4:56
face throughout this scene is pristine.
4:59
It's really good.
5:01
Also, I really like that Hank is saying we
5:04
because that just means that Connor is actually his partner now.
5:08
He's wormed his way into Hank.
5:10
At the end of the interaction, the captain has decided
5:13
they're off the case and Connor's going to have to go back to cyber life.
5:17
Hank walks away and Connor follows him to his desk where he insists that they can solve the case.
5:22
He says that he'll be sent back to cyber life and deactivated to find out why he failed.
5:28
So in this point where Hank is having a conversation with Connor,
5:31
just talking about how they have to continue with this case,
5:34
I love how Hank goes, what if we're on the wrong side?
5:38
I love the vulnerability that he's showing.
5:41
He's considering what if everything he's been fighting for is wrong.
5:45
This moment solidifies his character arc and the growth,
5:49
his acceptance of Connor being an android and being his partner
5:54
when he was so reluctant to have him in the earlier parts.
5:58
I just love this moment.
6:00
I do too.
6:01
And I find Connor's response to be equally as fascinating
6:05
because we know he's closer to deviancy than he ever has been,
6:10
but he still says when the deviance rise up, there will be chaos and we could have stopped it.
6:16
Connor has a point and this is a big issue I have with this game is
6:20
the lack of flexibility on the view of deviance.
6:26
I think it's too two-sided.
6:29
It is.
6:31
I think we need to clarify what exactly is going on.
6:34
What exactly, which side is Connor falling on?
6:39
Is he partially just worried about Cyberlife then taking him because he failed his mission?
6:45
Is he freaking out because harm can come to Hank and humans?
6:49
Or just he doesn't agree that androids should be deviance?
6:56
I'm not exactly sure what side and what Connor is trying to fight for.
7:00
We know he has a mission, but I don't think he's not prioritizing that mission anymore.
7:07
So I don't know what he's fighting for.
7:10
Yeah, this is one of my notes is why is he so set on solving this still?
7:14
And my question is to fulfill his mission or to save himself?
7:18
Maybe it's both because he does say if I don't solve this case, Cyberlife will destroy me.
7:24
So I think it's both.
7:26
I think it's so ingrained in his system to solve the case,
7:31
but he also has enough software instability at this point to not want to be destroyed.
7:37
But they are interrupted when they spot Perkins arriving
7:40
and Connor's upset he knows that if the FBI takes their evidence, they'll never solve the case.
7:45
He thinks he can find the answer, but Hank has to buy him some time.
7:50
Hank agrees and picks a fight with Perkins, which is great.
7:52
And while Connor is making his way to the evidence room, Gavin sees him and
7:58
the choice to just ignore him and keep going is perhaps the single most satisfying thing
8:04
in this entire game.
8:07
I love how Gavin is like a bug that you just want to squish beneath your shoes.
8:15
He's just always there.
8:17
I'm glad I don't think I chose him as my gas because he is so annoying.
8:22
In the evidence room, Connor reactivates and tricks the blue haired Tracy in order to obtain the location of Jericho.
8:31
Him doing this is like its peak detective Connor.
8:35
It's ruthless, but I love that it's ruthless.
8:39
It's also him being very desperate to figure things out before he runs out of time.
8:44
He's kind of at fault right now from what Amanda is saying that you didn't shoot her
8:49
when you should have shot her.
8:50
You should have been more ruthless.
8:51
So right after he discovers this, Gavin arrives pointing a gun at Connor.
8:56
And then after a fight, Connor is able to get away.
8:59
But not long after Perkins arrives to find Gavin passed out on the floor.
9:06
And they sound the alarm, but Connor's already on his way out.
9:08
But I love how Perkins walks straight past Gavin on the floor and just goes,
9:13
looks like somebody's been going through the evidence.
9:16
He probably is annoyed by Gavin too.
9:17
November 9th, 934 PM.
9:20
In the car, we learn on the news that all androids are being turned over to the authorities
9:26
and many industries are being affected, including the military.
9:30
So I don't know if that's part of like the whole Arctic sub story we keep hearing about.
9:36
Maybe now we're going to lose World War III.
9:39
Soon Rose pulls over and instructs them the rest of the way to Jericho.
9:43
And she tells them to find Marcus.
9:45
He'll help them get on the bus.
9:50
We quickly cut back to Connor, who is following the same path to Jericho that Marcus did earlier.
9:55
And he's in street clothes now.
9:57
And I don't like it.
9:58
I actually like it.
9:59
I really like him in this outfit so much more than before.
10:03
I hate the beanie, specifically.
10:05
I like that.
10:08
I hate it.
10:08
If you told me like KS between this one or him in his like Android version, I would have chose him.
10:17
Nonsense.
10:18
As a caduceus.
10:19
He's so much better in a beanie.
10:21
We need a poll.
10:22
We need a poll.
10:26
Back to Kara.
10:27
They make it to Jericho, which has vastly improved its resources since we last saw it.
10:33
And then Kara just does not want to talk to Luther about Alice.
10:37
He tries again to talk to her and she blows him off again.
10:41
It's so annoying because we know Kara really cares for Alice, yet any information pertaining to her,
10:49
she's ignoring it.
10:50
So it makes no sense.
10:52
Feels so bad for Luther.
10:53
He's trying so hard.
10:55
Luther is such a great person.
10:58
Quickly back to Connor again.
10:59
He's arrived at Jericho and is trying to locate Marcus.
11:02
And then at some point as he's exploring, Lucy catches him and says, you're lost.
11:08
You're looking for something.
11:09
You're looking for yourself.
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And then she just walks away and leaves him with that.
11:14
It's so generic, though.
11:15
It can apply to anyone.
11:17
I feel like she could have been cool and they just blew it with her.
11:21
Now back to Kara.
11:22
She's able to find Marcus and asks for help getting passports.
11:26
Marcus suggests that they stay at Jericho as it's dangerous outside, but he's still assigned to her.
11:31
He's still assigning someone to make them passports.
11:34
At the start of their interaction, Kara says that she's here with a little girl and another android.
11:41
And Marcus says, you know humans hate us.
11:44
Basically, why are you helping her?
11:46
I don't understand his viewpoint towards the humans.
11:49
We understand how much she wants to advocate for demons to have their own life,
11:55
but we never really saw his hatred.
11:57
Maybe for Leo?
11:59
But he spent so much time with Carl and he sees the goodness in people.
12:03
And yeah, maybe seeing all the news reports of just like humans.
12:06
And it's mostly the army who's shooting deviants and androids.
12:12
But where is this hate coming from?
12:14
There's no reason for Marcus to take so much offense to humans at this point, especially when it's a little girl.
12:24
And it especially just doesn't track with the pacifist's playthrough with him.
12:30
We've chosen all of the non-violent options and the dialogue options.
12:36
Why would he want to have a dialogue if he knows that they hate them?
12:40
It just doesn't make sense with his strategy.
12:42
This line just doesn't make sense.
12:45
After this interaction, Kara makes her way back to Alice,
12:48
but along the way she spots an identical child who turns out to be an android.
12:54
Luther approaches her and says,
12:56
You knew from the beginning.
12:59
You just didn't want to see it.
13:03
She wanted a mom and you wanted someone to care for.
13:07
So we see that Kara at one point saw the pamphlet for Alice's android model in Todd's house.
13:14
Why? Why the twist?
13:19
Okay, I was about to say that.
13:20
What is the purpose of making Alice an android?
13:24
It doesn't change the fact that Kara as an android has feelings and that's what pushes her to be a deviant.
13:33
Because Alice's character arc is so shallow as well.
13:36
There is no need to make her a deviant or a human.
13:40
It's just so unnecessary.
13:42
And also, then why does Alice exist?
13:46
I don't think Todd or obviously Todd's wife never wanted Alice,
13:53
otherwise she would have taken Alice with her during when she left, right?
13:57
Maybe I'm shallow.
13:58
I just or I'm slow at this.
14:00
I don't understand why this is even relevant or important.
14:04
So addressing one of the things you mentioned.
14:08
In the scene where we're looking in Alice's keepsake box, there's a picture of the family.
14:16
And I'm like almost certain that it's not Alice in that picture.
14:20
It's a like real life little girl.
14:22
Oh, I think what happened is they probably lost their daughter and Alice is the like replacement.
14:32
You know what I mean?
14:33
Oh, that would make sense.
14:35
Just real quickly what Luther finishes out.
14:39
He's saying forgetting who you already become, what someone needs you to be.
14:42
Maybe that's what it means to be alive.
14:44
And I get it.
14:45
But at the same time, if we look at these two androids, right?
14:52
Alice is designed to be a child, someone that needs to be mothered as Luther says,
14:57
and Kara is designed to be a caretaker.
14:59
And this is where I get in question, are they really free?
15:02
Or is their bond just part of their programs?
15:07
What if her need to protect Kara and go up against Todd was part of her programming?
15:14
Maybe she was always programmed to prioritize that.
15:18
So then yes, I feel like they have no free will.
15:23
It does the exact opposite of what I think it wants to do.
15:28
It wants us to be like, oh, I'm going to be a child.
15:31
It wants us to be like, oh, no.
15:34
But she still loves her.
15:35
She's still choosing to love her.
15:37
But was it ever even a choice?
15:39
And maybe that is the question that Kara is now having to deal with is,
15:43
was it ever even a choice that I love her?
15:46
I think the more intriguing question is, is Alice deviant?
15:50
Because if she's not, then is her love truly real for Kara?
15:54
No, because she seems pretty whiny and...
15:57
Don't steal the coke, Kara.
16:01
It's not ours.
16:03
You want me to knock them down?
16:06
Knock them down?
16:08
I know you all wanted to hear me say it again.
16:10
Yeah, I do.
16:11
Well, I think we'll probably come back to this topic.
16:14
Should we move on to scene three for now?
16:17
So moving on, Marcus and the Inner Circle are having a difficult conversation
16:21
dealing with the fallout of their actions.
16:23
And this again, I wrote in all caps, why is his baseline anger?
16:30
I don't get it.
16:32
I don't know how many times I'm going to say that.
16:34
Too many.
16:35
But by the end of the conversation, Marcus decides he needs to go talk to the humans
16:39
on his own in a final effort to protect his people.
16:43
Well, Marcus's mood swing is really throwing me off.
16:47
If the game was designed for Marcus to choose anger, you should have never been able to
16:52
choose anger.
16:53
You should have never given us the option to choose such a calm, pacifist approach to
16:59
it only when our cutscenes are going to go back to him being angry.
17:03
And that just doesn't make a consistent storyline or personality for the character.
17:09
I just feel like it's sloppy writing if you're going to push us to go for violence this entire
17:14
time and make all the cutscenes about anger being his baseline.
17:18
I think it's extra confusing because his demeanor seems sad, if anything.
17:24
He seems dejected, but everything he says is geared towards anger.
17:29
So I think it just doesn't math out.
17:32
Because if you know humans hate you, why are you choosing peaceful protests?
17:36
If that's what you're saying, then don't give us option to do a peaceful protest.
17:41
Right.
17:41
Or choosing peaceful should mean that those lines no longer exist for this character.
17:46
But North stays behind.
17:48
Okay.
17:49
What's up with her outfit changes?
17:50
Like how many outfits does this woman need?
17:52
I don't know.
17:54
Too many.
17:55
So she stays behind to talk to Marcus.
17:58
She has access to a dirty bomb and wants Marcus to use it, but he refuses.
18:04
I have in my note, but I already know the answer because of your reaction.
18:08
Is Kathy okay with the kiss this time?
18:11
No.
18:13
I wish you recorded me.
18:14
I wish you recorded my reaction.
18:16
I was so mad at you.
18:19
I just need to stop anticipating what you're going to want and just do what I'm going to do.
18:23
Yeah.
18:26
It was so annoying.
18:27
I wish Marcus rejected her because I feel like that's more fitting with the storyline
18:32
in his character.
18:34
Zero for two for David Cage.
18:37
This is at least better.
18:39
At least we're not naked on a dingy motel room floor while our son slowly dies.
18:45
Exactly.
18:46
So as North leaves, we see Connor snooping in the background and he's quickly transported
18:51
back to Amanda.
18:52
She congratulates him and asks him to bring Marcus in alive.
18:57
My feelings about this game have changed significantly since my very first playthrough.
19:03
And in this scene specifically, I liked it a lot the first time, but I now feel like it does
19:12
just a tremendous disservice to Connor's character.
19:16
On one hand, I like that Marcus convinces him to be deviant rather than the touch conversion.
19:21
Or it's telepathic powers now.
19:23
Right.
19:24
And again, why is he not using that on Connor?
19:26
Like, it would be so easy.
19:29
But on the other hand, I really think Hank should be the one that convinces him ultimately
19:34
to become deviant because that relationship is really what pushes Connor to continue to choose
19:41
deviant thoughts and actions.
19:44
So I feel kind of robbed in that relationship.
19:46
Yeah, that's such a really good point.
19:48
Yeah.
19:50
Because who is Marcus to tell Connor who he is?
19:53
I don't like the feeling that Marcus has as sort of this god almost, about you don't know
20:00
who you are and you need to choose a side and all this.
20:03
Like, it makes me dislike Marcus a little bit in this scene.
20:08
Okay.
20:09
I'm glad you said that because that's when I kind of...
20:14
It's not like I don't like Marcus.
20:16
I just think it was very out of character for Marcus.
20:18
I don't like Marcus, I just think it was very out of character for Marcus. I think he would be like,
20:24
okay, just take me in and just shoot me kind of situation.
20:27
I don't think Marcus had that kind of sway on Connor to get him to be a deviant.
20:32
But I know you want to say something.
20:33
Oh, I was just gonna...
20:34
What you just said, Marcus's plan as of now is to go by himself to go talk to the humans.
20:41
Connor wants to take him in alive.
20:42
What's the problem?
20:45
What's the problem?
20:46
That is true.
20:48
There's no disconnect here.
20:50
They want the same things.
20:51
Yeah.
20:52
But okay, so by the end of the conversation, Connor has become a deviant and joins Jericho.
20:58
And I like Connor being deviant, but I wanted him to pick it himself.
21:03
And I really hate that it feels like Marcus had to convince him to become deviant.
21:06
Because I think at this point in the game,
21:10
Connor already knows that he's well on his way to being deviant.
21:13
And I just don't think that Marcus would be the thing.
21:15
Yeah.
21:16
That would push him.
21:18
A better writing situation would either be he sees just something to push him outside of the code.
21:26
Because that's what Marcus did.
21:28
That's what Kara did to break the fourth wall kind of situation.
21:31
So why is Connor not experiencing that?
21:35
And I think you're hitting right on the head my issue with the decision earlier in the game of
21:40
save Hank or go after the deviant.
21:43
That's the kind of situation where Connor would become deviant to save Hank.
21:47
That choice should be later in the game after our relationship has improved with Hank.
21:53
And then we have the option to abandon the mission to save Hank, which that would equal deviancy.
21:59
Yes, I know.
22:00
Now I understand what you meant when you said you didn't like their relationship
22:05
growing so quickly at that time.
22:07
And it makes sense that they should have moved that scene here.
22:10
Because they already had a good groundwork for the relationship.
22:14
This is the right place for it.
22:16
Oh, man, David, you should have consulted you and you and I.
22:20
Honestly, I think that about a lot of things.
22:23
But Connor does warn them that the humans are about to attack Jericho.
22:27
And we also see that Amanda is now betrayed.
22:30
And I have an issue like I understand Connor warning them that the humans are about to attack.
22:37
I get that.
22:38
But I feel like he flips so fast into being like, I am deviant and my mission was nothing.
22:47
Something about it feels too severe.
22:50
But then back to Kara, Alice, and Luther, they make a run for it.
22:53
Well, Marcus decides that they have to blow up Jericho.
22:57
Marcus makes his way to the explosive, saving as many deviants along the way as he can.
23:02
Kara chooses to help Luther rather than leave him behind when he gets shot.
23:05
They all make it to a side room, but Luther forces them to go on without him.
23:10
Luther's so green.
23:14
He would just give him the KFC now, Kathy.
23:16
Yeah, I actually already wrote it down on my notes that KFC is Luther.
23:22
So we know.
23:23
Come on.
23:24
Yeah, there's no point in doing that.
23:26
OK, so I should send you a screenshot.
23:30
So yeah, I already established the KFC is Luther.
23:32
So Kara and Alice do very narrowly escape Jericho after playing dead.
23:38
And Marcus arrives at the explosives and activates them before making a run for it.
23:44
And then how?
23:44
OK, so the rest of the Inner Circle plus Connor ran out ahead of Marcus while he ran
23:50
to the hold to go set off the explosives.
23:52
But somehow he catches up to them.
23:55
And then for some reason, North just decides to stop running
23:59
and fall behind the rest of the group and get shot at.
24:03
I don't understand why you saved her, Leah.
24:06
Well, it went against everything I wanted to do.
24:13
And then this like hunk of metal.
24:16
We'll see this hunk of metal, this exact hunk of metal everywhere.
24:20
And it's always a shield.
24:22
Right?
24:23
Anyway, it seems like they all escape.
24:26
And that's the end of scene three.
24:27
I think it's really funny that Simon totally wanted to seek revenge and just let North die.
24:33
I think it's time I start trusting or doing what I want to do in these playthroughs.
24:38
I kind of want you to be more vengeful and I want you to be more bloodthirsty.
24:45
I wanted to.
24:47
OK, so scene four.
24:50
November 10th, 417 p.m.
24:52
It's the next day and Marcus visits Carl's grave.
24:55
And he says to Carl, I was happy and I didn't even know it.
25:05
Finally, you admit it.
25:07
So then why do you see yourself as a slave?
25:10
Why have you mentioned that multiple times?
25:13
You liked your android life.
25:15
You could smile.
25:16
You did smile.
25:18
You were allowed to stand tall, Marcus.
25:20
You were allowed to stand tall, Marcus.
25:26
The character arc is really flimsy.
25:30
We needed more of this moment.
25:32
We needed more of this of him reminiscing on Carl and being unsure of what he should do.
25:38
We missed out a lot because it really humanizes Marcus.
25:42
And I feel like a lot of the scenes we see of him are like, he's so just angry.
25:48
And on this mission that he doesn't even seem human.
25:51
He just seems one track mind.
25:53
It's basically Connor, but with a different mission.
25:58
And then here is a big one of the main issues that I have with this game.
26:04
And it goes back to the Alice Kara thing that we were just talking about.
26:09
It seems like the game wants us to have human android positive relationships,
26:15
but then they just take them away from us.
26:17
Alice and Kara, we thought that was an android and a human.
26:20
Just kidding.
26:22
Alice is an android.
26:23
And then with Marcus and Carl, we see that's a positive relationship.
26:28
That's his father figure, but then he calls himself a slave.
26:32
The only salvation for this theme is Connor and Hank, but even that one has issues
26:39
because it seems like both of them flip and just go 100% against the humans.
26:44
But I don't understand why there's no middle ground of humans and androids can just coexist.
26:52
I don't understand that either.
26:54
I think the reason why they're making so many flips is they want to be like, haha,
26:58
we got you, but it's not doing that for us.
27:00
I think if maybe I was 14 and playing this game, I would be like, oh wow, that totally
27:08
caught me off guard.
27:09
But I think if you do a deep dive to this, you'll realize there's a lot of things that
27:13
you realize there's a lot of flaws in it.
27:16
Let's quickly finish this out.
27:18
So as he's walking away, Leo walks by and they just look at each other.
27:25
And I can't believe I asked this because there's no way that Leo has this depth to him.
27:29
But he said, does Leo feel responsible for Marcus's uprising?
27:35
I don't know.
27:35
I just think that Leo probably is too shell and too self-absorbed to think about anything
27:40
besides himself.
27:41
I feel like he's just going to Carl's grave to like, I don't know, try to find some art.
27:47
See if there's any jewelry.
27:49
Try to steal the grave rob a little bit.
27:52
At their new hideout, Marcus checks in on everybody.
27:55
We've seen...
27:59
So I swear we've seen Simon walk more after the leg incident than before.
28:08
So true.
28:08
It's too true.
28:11
And I edited the video episode for the part where they have to abandon him on the roof.
28:19
And it does show him crawling away speedily.
28:24
And so why could he not speedily wiggle to the edge of the building with a parachute on?
28:30
Yes, he crawls away.
28:31
And I feel like people could maybe call us out for that.
28:34
You didn't notice him crawling away.
28:35
Sure.
28:36
But it doesn't change the fact that he could have crawled just as fast to the edge of the building.
28:40
And it doesn't change the fact that he can suddenly walk again.
28:44
And then when Marcus talks to Connor, he's remorseful and guilty, which I understand.
28:50
And he tells Marcus that he can get access to Cyberlife, to the assembly plant, and wake up more
28:55
androids.
28:56
But then he says, I was stupid.
28:58
I should have guessed they were using me.
29:00
I think my main issue is that do they not realize they're fighting the saint?
29:04
They're on the same side of the war.
29:09
That's what's confusing me.
29:10
And you know that doing this, you're going to have to sacrifice a lot of people.
29:13
So where's this guilt coming from?
29:16
The very first time we meet Connor, what's he doing?
29:20
He's saving a life that's being threatened by a deviant.
29:24
And so I feel like Connor as a character should understand
29:28
sometimes deviants are dangerous.
29:30
And so I don't think it's fair for him to be like, I was stupid.
29:34
Because that's not the full story.
29:37
At the end of the interaction, Marcus decides to trust him.
29:40
And then he stands up to address his people, telling them that he's chosen a demonstration
29:45
over a revolution.
29:47
He's basically counting on the humanity of humans.
29:51
And this is the second, to me, core issue with this game.
29:56
Is I feel like the game is sort of telling us Cyberlife and humans are the same thing.
30:03
To me, Cyberlife does not equal humans.
30:05
We see that the humans have a fair public opinion.
30:07
They have empathy for the androids.
30:09
We see characters like Hank, like Carl, like Rose that empathize with the androids.
30:16
It's not the humans, it's Cyberlife.
30:18
That's the villain of the game, in my opinion.
30:21
And I feel like the deviants don't see that and they totally misunderstand that.
30:27
And I just don't think it's fair that the game makes us choose
30:30
deviants or humans when it should be deviants or Cyberlife.
30:38
And they never get the blame, which we'll see later when there's more of that political
30:43
conversation.
30:43
They never talk anything bad about Cyberlife, which is very confusing.
30:47
And after taking all the deviants and stealing them and converting them,
30:52
Cyberlife still hasn't said anything.
30:54
So I'm confused about Cyberlife's role in this, as if they're willing to just sit back
31:01
and watch the world burn or if they are just like too scared that they made a mistake and
31:09
they're just going to cower behind everything.
31:13
I promise I like this game, but it has issues.
31:18
Anything else on scene four?
31:20
I do wish that the timeline would have been different of when Connor becomes a deviant
31:28
and his interaction, because Connor and Marcus do make a good team.
31:32
And I'm kind of sad that we don't get to see that prolonged because I think something
31:36
of more substance and value could have come to this game had the timeline been a bit better.
31:43
What I want to see or what I would have wanted to see, and we almost get it, is yes, him
31:51
becoming a deviant earlier in this moment that we just saw with Hank of are we on the
31:56
wrong side?
31:57
I wanted to see that happen earlier and have the two of them without the resources of the
32:03
police department without Cyberlife.
32:06
Take down Cyberlife.
32:08
That would be the best resolution to this game is a human and an android working
32:13
together to take down the company that's causing all of this.
32:19
Scene five.
32:20
It's November 10th, 924 PM.
32:22
President Warren makes an announcement and answers some questions.
32:26
All androids must be handed over and they are to be destroyed at camps.
32:32
Someone asks what's going to happen to Cyberlife and she responds, I won't address any other
32:37
questions until we've dealt with the android question.
32:41
Which I don't understand if androids and deviants are part of Cyberlife, why won't you work
32:46
with Cyberlife first?
32:47
Why are you taking matters into your own hand and just grouping all androids as deviants
32:52
and then trying to neutralize quote unquote the deviants?
32:58
Why is the president also speaking so weird?
33:01
There is a national curfew, civilian movement is being strictly controlled.
33:07
He's speaking like an android.
33:10
Oh plot twist.
33:13
But then the guy that asked this question, I am convinced it's the same voice actor for
33:19
Scott Shelby in Heavy Rain.
33:22
It's especially when he says definitively.
33:25
Okay get ready.
33:28
What's going to happen to Cyberlife?
33:29
Will androids be banned definitively?
33:32
Yeah.
33:33
I also feel like I might hear his voice somewhere else too.
33:35
But we're not there yet.
33:39
So Connor makes his way into the assembly plant but he's being escorted and he has to
33:44
get to the proper floor and in order to do so he has to neutralize the guards in the
33:48
elevator.
33:49
I'm a bit confused on how they don't already know that he can't be trusted.
33:54
Especially with all their communication being just so immediate.
33:58
I don't understand that either.
33:59
So Connor does demolish the guards and then we're quickly back to Kara.
34:06
She and Alice are sneaking their way through the city on a time crunch to get to the bus
34:10
station and we walk past a movie theater and come on.
34:16
Not it saying Heavy Rain on the marquee.
34:19
Did it say that?
34:21
Yeah.
34:22
How many times are they going to reference this game?
34:25
Too frequent.
34:27
Too frequently.
34:28
He's in love with Heavy Rain.
34:32
At one point they see Luther being held at gunpoint and it appears that they may be playing
34:37
to execute him and another android so they decide to save him.
34:41
Reunited the three of them continue on.
34:43
The guard that they run into here too, the one that they almost shoot over the mitten,
34:48
he sounds kind of like Scott Shelby too.
34:51
So I don't know.
34:51
I might be imagining it but there's no way they almost shot this guy over a dropped mitten.
34:57
It's extreme too.
35:00
I mean you're expecting so much when he's like hold on and then he just hands out this
35:06
thing looks like a dirty sock.
35:08
So anti-climactic.
35:10
Well what's annoying is that all this time Alice could have just told Kara says hey can
35:17
you switch off my my body temperature sensory thing?
35:21
She could have been okay without the coat if she just switched that off but we only
35:25
wait until now.
35:26
Well that makes me wonder if she's not a deviant.
35:28
Maybe she doesn't know she has that setting.
35:33
All right it's 10 56 p.m.
35:35
Marcus's demonstration is now being covered by the news.
35:39
He and his people march towards one of the camps and the authorities say to surrender
35:42
or they will open fire.
35:45
Public opinion goes up and then because of the media coverage the authorities decide
35:49
to hold fire.
35:50
It's too late for that.
35:52
And this is another hint about like it's not humans.
35:57
Humans are saving your life in this situation Marcus because public opinion is so high.
36:03
They know that they can't get away with just murdering you right here.
36:06
But it's also I'm just kind of irritated at the way they're portraying the human side.
36:13
They're like freaking out yet they still won't even give up their luxury of having an
36:18
android like they haven't boycotted cyber life which is what's always consistently throwing
36:22
me off is that if you're so afraid of them why are you still using them and why are you
36:26
still supporting cyber life like why hasn't your public opinion taken down cyber life
36:31
enough if you're that afraid and if the US Army is just shooting them off why not just
36:36
stop it completely at the root cause.
36:39
Right and even like the anti android signs around town that we've been seeing.
36:44
Why is it like anti android and not anti cyber life.
36:47
Why is cyber life getting off like scot free in this whole thing.
36:52
So now back to Connor he starts to convert one of the androids in a sea of androids when
36:57
a new Connor shows up with Hank at gunpoint.
37:00
Anything you want to say it's a very quick little jump back to Connor.
37:04
Uh not yet.
37:06
And then we're quickly right back to Kara.
37:09
They cannot get tickets to the bus but they do find Rose nearby and she's going to drive
37:13
them to the border.
37:16
Now we're back to Marcus and they're preparing some defenses for an assault and you and I
37:22
were like what's this like why are they even bothering with this it's not going to stop
37:25
anything.
37:27
Simon goes stupid.
37:28
I don't know that's not going to stop them.
37:31
Thank goodness for Simon.
37:33
Top tier moment that's the only line in this part of the story.
37:40
That's actually good.
37:41
Perkins approaches the barricade he wants to talk to Marcus and he offers him a deal.
37:46
He says in a few minutes the troops will be ordered to charge.
37:49
None of you will survive.
37:50
Surrender and I give you my word your life will be spared.
37:54
They'll be detained but none of you will be destroyed.
37:57
And Marcus's response after some are back and forth is I'd rather die here than betray
38:01
my people which again cringe.
38:04
Okay we get it.
38:07
Anything you want to say about that.
38:08
Not particularly about that exchange but even kind of I think it's before this happens is
38:15
that North is consistently telling how much she trusts Marcus and like we believe in you
38:22
and everything yet you're also consistently going like just kill them just shoot them don't
38:27
even try and stuff like her character is even more bipolar than Marcus.
38:34
So annoying like that stupid hand thingy where they pull back the skin and just.
38:39
You hate that so much every time it popped up on the screen like oh okay.
38:45
Yeah it just my annoyance with this entire conversation and character is like putting
38:53
a really damp blanket over all the good parts that could have happened.
38:58
Marcus warns his people that they're about to be attacked and then we're very quickly
39:03
back to Connor and the other Connor is making him choose Hank or the revolution.
39:10
And I find it incredibly interesting that he calls it a revolution when I specifically
39:14
chose demonstration and not revolution as Marcus in the church.
39:19
So Connor does choose to save Hank and then backs away from the other androids.
39:24
The two Connors then fight and are interrupted by Hank pointing a gun at them and he now
39:28
has to figure out which is the true Connor.
39:31
So Connor then pretty much demonstrate that it's real because he knows the cause of Hank's
39:38
son's death.
39:39
I appreciate this is the moment where Hank realizes that truly the enemy isn't with
39:47
androids it's with humans and this is great but again it's also too late.
39:55
I also really like this moment because both of these Connors are identical they should
39:59
be identical and you shouldn't be able to tell them apart but it highlights how deviancy
40:05
develops personality.
40:07
This scene is the ultimate moment of maybe they really are.
40:13
Alive like Hank says because there should be no way to tell them apart.
40:17
He had Connors memories too so the really the only thing to distinguish them is personality.
40:24
The thing that kind of clenches Hank's belief is the emotion in Connor's voice when he's
40:31
describing what happened to his son.
40:34
They were in a car accident and Android had to perform the surgery because there wasn't
40:38
a human available.
40:39
And he died but then Hank goes on to say that the one who really took his son from him was
40:44
the doctor who was too high on red ice to operate.
40:47
I'm kind of irritated that all my curiosities about red eyes only comes to learning that
40:54
it is just the reason why Hank lost his son.
40:59
I don't know I just feel I feel robbed of a red eye storyline.
41:03
What would you want to see out of it I'm curious I'm just curious like what were you envisioning?
41:09
Well red eyes being related to deviants not like it's their kryptonite but like maybe if they
41:16
touch red ice or somehow gets mixed up with their chemical or their bio makeup that pushes them to
41:22
being deviants like something more like there's two options to becoming a deviant and one option
41:28
is to become a deviant and one option is to become a deviant.
41:32
Two becoming a deviant and one is a motion.
41:34
Two is because of this drug enhanced and cyber life is secretly behind red ice.
41:41
So now that fake Connor is dead Connor converts the androids and why does he say wake up like
41:48
wake up he says it like he's I don't know really straining and then they all start
41:54
converting each other.
41:55
Okay final scene of the game it's November 10th 11 26 p.m. we're back to car at the Detroit River.
42:03
They're crossing to get to Canada and as they are the authorities spot them in open fire.
42:09
They lose Luther he's been shot and I think this is our first so long.
42:15
I'm so mad so unnecessary they could have kept Luther alive I honestly think a better decision
42:22
I honestly think a better decision is if they all died or I don't know I definitely sell on
42:29
Mother Respector he is my favorite character of this game.
42:33
I agree Mother Respector there's just absolutely no no question with him he has not done a single
42:39
thing wrong and he's just too good.
42:44
The boat begins to leak and they have to toss everything overboard to make it across including
42:48
Luther but then we come back to Marcus media is increasingly in favor of the androids.
42:54
The demonstration goes under attack they fight until they're all cornered and outnumbered
42:59
and somehow by some miracle everyone from the inner circle is still alive at the very end.
43:05
What's realistic is if Simon with his new found legs is if you outran everyone I could see Simon
43:13
being alive and everyone else being dead.
43:15
What would have been better is if he if we hadn't seen him still at this point since the building
43:22
and he just comes like crawling up out of the sewer and like attacks the the army from behind.
43:31
If he has like a gun in hand like a machine gun and he's on the wheelchair and this wheelchair
43:35
is set up to like have guns attached to it.
43:40
So good.
43:41
Anyway now that they're cornered and outnumbered Marcus has to make a choice.
43:46
There is an unavailable option which I believe is the dirty bomb if I had taken the detonator
43:51
and then kiss north sing or sacrifice.
43:55
All of these options suck.
43:58
I'm definitely not going to kiss north we don't want to see that again and then sing.
44:03
I just I just don't understand that one.
44:06
I don't see it like what are they trying to do like like a cat nissing.
44:09
They're trying to do like like a cat niss from Hunger Games kind of thing like what what.
44:16
You know I don't watch movies yet you reference them.
44:21
It's other people other people listening.
44:25
Other people understand and so I choose sacrifice because I am like well that might that might be
44:31
good but he doesn't really sacrifice himself he just kills himself.
44:36
To me sacrifice means you're doing something for someone else by giving yourself up but he doesn't
44:42
do anything for any of them they all get shot immediately after he lights himself on fire.
44:47
How did he light himself on fire too like I don't understand where the powers come from.
44:51
I guess I don't know.
44:54
It's a really pointless death I don't feel like it helped anything.
44:57
If anything what would have been better is he communicate it with the reporters and said that
45:03
this is what happens watch them kill me and he should have done something else
45:08
to to trigger more emotional responses.
45:11
Right and why didn't they go talk to the media you know that they would say yes.
45:16
And why didn't you talk to the president or do a better job of communication like you said that
45:22
you want to end it but yet you're doing nothing like yeah and at some point even says like dialogue
45:28
is the only way but you've never talked to them.
45:30
But also in the scene where they're being attacked that's the same hunk of metal.
45:34
It's the same hunk of metal it's here too.
45:36
If Luther wasn't the KFC this hunk of metal will be the KFC because it's saved lives.
45:41
Yeah honestly.
45:42
And then we're back to President Warren she makes another statement and we also while this is we're
45:49
hearing this see Connor and his new army arriving in Detroit.
45:53
She has ordered the army to retreat and the city is being evacuated.
45:56
She says perhaps the time has come for us to consider the possibility that androids
46:04
are a new form of intelligent life.
46:09
It's too late and yeah I just I think she's just trying to cover her butt.
46:16
But they're evacuating Detroit cyber life is fully in control of Detroit at this point.
46:23
Because they got rid of all the humans.
46:26
Are they just trying to take over the country?
46:29
I think so and then what if President Warren was an android under cyber life?
46:35
Talk about plot twist wouldn't that have been better?
46:38
Yeah but back to Connor he learns that the humans are leaving.
46:42
A few androids tell him that basically he's their new leader and he should speak to all of them.
46:48
But as he's about to address the sea of deviants he's pulled back to Amanda and she says.
47:18
Congratulations you represent an immense success for cyber life.
47:23
Is she telling the truth and they want to take over Detroit and then the rest of the country?
47:28
Or is she bluffing to try to just control Connor?
47:33
I think she's telling the truth I think she's always had the intention to use
47:39
Connor or whoever the leader is to control the country because she represents cyber life.
47:48
The only reason she would lie is to try to control like confuse Connor enough to be able to control
47:53
him at this point because this is a pivotal moment of him addressing the androids.
48:00
Back in the real world Connor has to deal with this new information.
48:03
Bluff or not he can't risk it and decides to destroy himself in order to not be used again.
48:10
So he pulls a gun and then Amanda pulls him back and says I'm sorry Connor but we can't let you do that.
48:16
And then Connor must find another way he finds the emergency exit that Kamsky had referenced earlier.
48:23
It's the handprint thing that we talked about earlier in the game and when he touched it the
48:27
first time nothing really happened he just was like kind of confused.
48:30
But now something's happening so do you have to be a deviant in order to use this?
48:37
But this does allow him to regain control and he pulls the trigger and I just have to say
48:42
that the like micro expressions on his face are so good.
48:48
It's a huge change from being just an android to being a deviant.
48:53
I still don't I'm not convinced Kara is a deviant so I feel like maybe that's why her
48:57
facial expressions are still pretty bland but like for Connor for sure his demonstration of
49:02
personality is the reason why he's able to have more noticeable facial expressions.
49:09
All right should we finish this out?
49:11
Yeah.
49:12
So we are back to Kara she's carrying Alice out of the shallows to shore and they try to trick us.
49:19
They try to make us think Alice is dead but after like 45 seconds she finally wakes up and they've
49:25
made it end of game.
49:28
How how how did you like it?
49:31
I feel like it's it was a really weak ending what they should have done was in between the
49:36
Manda stick the Kara and Alice scene up and then end it where we see it go blank with Connor.
49:43
I think they're really trying to end it on a note of like a feel good that oh there's still love
49:48
but the whole moral of the story which we're gonna have to talk about in the summary
49:52
is so murky that leaving it on a note saying that like love conquers all like the mom's love is
49:58
everything is so freaking useless in this it's so oh yeah not even adjacent to any of the storyline.
50:07
They completely abandoned the theme too by having Alice be an android and then they try to bring it
50:12
back here. I think this is probably one of the weaker endings in terms of entertainment like
50:19
there's definitely better endings for the game as a whole.
50:23
Maybe another ending is going to change my mind but so far it's a zero for two for our
50:29
David Cage games.
50:31
I'm really excited to talk about the summary though.
50:34
Yeah and with that I'm going to close it out. Let's do a Dacity on one three two one.
50:40
Thank you for listening and don't forget to send in any questions comments or game suggestions.
50:45
You can find all our contact info on our website replayreviewspod.com or contact us directly through
50:50
our site. Do we completely miss something? Are we way off the mark or you just want us to take a
50:55
deeper look at anything from the game? We'll tackle any topics you all want to hear in our
50:59
season wrap-up episode. We also have a reddit where we discuss anything we're curious about.
51:04
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking. Our theme music is Condemned by
51:08
Eggy Toast. They'll play you out and we'll be back next week with the summary episode.
51:38
you