From the NFL to the Pulpit: Derwin Gray on Forgiveness, Fear, and Finding Your Father

Typology · Sep 11, 2026 · 58m

There's a particular kind of loneliness that comes from caring about something before anyone else in the room does. My guest today knows that loneliness intimately.

Rev. Dr. Derwin L. Gray played in the NFL before founding Transformation Church in 2010. He's also an Enneagram Eight — and in this conversation, we get into what it actually feels like to live inside that number: the passion that gets mistaken for anger, the instinct to protect people before they've asked to be protected, and the particular ache of caring more than the room does.

We explore the difference between using pain as…