Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / 02/13/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Harvey Peyton

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02/13/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Harvey Peyton · WCHS Network Podcasts

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Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
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Speaker 3: Put the power of Paype on the side. We have
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Speaker 3: Paton on your side, the power of page.
1:05
Speaker 4: Hello, you can put the power of painting on your
1:07
Speaker 4: side this morning. Sorry, Harvey and I were talking strategizing
1:10
Speaker 4: before the show. Just a little bit, Harvey, Payton is
1:12
Speaker 4: with us this morning. You can put the power of
1:13
Speaker 4: Payton on your side. Harvey, Good morning, how you doing.
1:15
Speaker 5: Good morning. Actually the truth would be we were shooting
1:17
Speaker 5: the bull.
1:18
Speaker 4: Yeah that's kind of true. I was trying to make
1:19
Speaker 4: it sound.
1:19
Speaker 5: Better off the air, but I've been quite well. Actually
1:22
Speaker 5: to Tom's on his way to a convention today. And
1:27
Speaker 5: the American Association for Justice formerly the American trave Layers Association,
1:33
Speaker 5: has two major meetings a year. They have one in
1:36
Speaker 5: the midwinter, which is this and then the annual convention.
1:41
Speaker 5: And like all things, you know, you've got to go
1:44
Speaker 5: to a city that had if you've got a large organization,
1:47
Speaker 5: and the Trial Lawyers is a large organization. I'm not
1:50
Speaker 5: sure what the national membership is is probably in the
1:54
Speaker 5: high five figures or six figure level. So if you're
1:57
Speaker 5: going to have a convention, you're forced to go to
1:59
Speaker 5: a venue that's big enough, that has enough hotel space
2:04
Speaker 5: and meeting space. So I think they're in Miami right now.
2:09
Speaker 5: That's a warmer climb, and in the summers it's usually
2:13
Speaker 5: d C, New York, Chicago, La San Diego. Something that
2:18
Speaker 5: just self prevent. Now, the Western Jenny Trawlers Association, we're
2:23
Speaker 5: having our midwinter convention today and tomorrow sort of overlapped,
2:27
Speaker 5: which is logistically not good because like Tom's on the
2:33
Speaker 5: board of that association as well, but you know, if
2:35
Speaker 5: you want to go to the national midwinter there was
2:39
Speaker 5: a conflict had something to do with the fact the
2:42
Speaker 5: legislature just came into session here. We generally schedule of
2:46
Speaker 5: the midwinter meeting. I think most all interest groups, I
2:51
Speaker 5: think that would be We could certainly say that the
2:54
Speaker 5: Travelers is an interest group. We have a lobbyist and
2:57
Speaker 5: we're interested in legislation and a lot you know. Actually,
3:00
Speaker 5: the State Association of County he's the contractors Association calls,
3:06
Speaker 5: you know. They try to have meetings and events and
3:09
Speaker 5: Charleston in and around the legislative session just to get
3:12
Speaker 5: access to the legislature, wouldn't I'm not attending this year
3:17
Speaker 5: just because I don't know anybody anyway. I know JB
3:19
Speaker 5: Acres because JB we worked together a little while back
3:24
Speaker 5: in the gosh, early two thousands when JB was just
3:28
Speaker 5: starting he was I don't know his wife really well.
3:32
Speaker 5: But other than that, Mike Stewart, I guess he's gone.
3:36
Speaker 5: I knew Mike fairly well. He's in the State Senate,
3:39
Speaker 5: but he's headed to d C. Roger Hanshaw and I've
3:43
Speaker 5: got a speaking friendship with Roger, not anything like Cope Psenic,
3:49
Speaker 5: but if we meet each other, we speak cordially, and
3:52
Speaker 5: I think he does a good job. And other than that,
3:55
Speaker 5: I would be a stranger there. Eric Nelson left, he
3:57
Speaker 5: went to So we'll just see what happens. I was
4:00
Speaker 5: listening last night. Well, I wasn't listening last night. I
4:03
Speaker 5: was listening on the news because they just don't have
4:06
Speaker 5: the ability anymore to sit through a long political speech.
4:13
Speaker 4: Now I hear you. I mean you get all the
4:14
Speaker 4: relative details afterwards. So yeah, I get you.
4:16
Speaker 5: We're going to see what happens. You know, on the
4:19
Speaker 5: state level, obviously there are budget issues, there are things
4:21
Speaker 5: that need to be addressed. I don't know that there's
4:25
Speaker 5: going to be a lot of legislation that may affect
4:29
Speaker 5: people's individual rights in the civil system, some sort of
4:36
Speaker 5: another attempt to limit people's ability to access the courts,
4:39
Speaker 5: to speak truth to power, to seek recovery for legitimate
4:44
Speaker 5: injury when you suffer a loss at the hands of
4:46
Speaker 5: a negligent party. I mean, that's sort of been the
4:50
Speaker 5: point of some of the legislative activity over the last
4:54
Speaker 5: well twenty years. And the system works along quite well.
5:00
Speaker 5: Now we had the Intermediate Court that's in place. The
5:03
Speaker 5: Supreme Court's workload is decreased somewhat. They're cranking out some
5:07
Speaker 5: opinions now, workers' compensation opinions come out way more quickly
5:11
Speaker 5: than it did in the past, which is much much
5:14
Speaker 5: better for working people. We have a new set of
5:20
Speaker 5: civil procedure rules. They are the rules of civil procedure.
5:25
Speaker 5: It's hard to imagine, but there were at one time
5:27
Speaker 5: common law pleading, the things that developed from the pipeout
5:31
Speaker 5: er courts of England, and these crazy causes of action
5:36
Speaker 5: with really intricate pleading requirements and rules. It was almost
5:40
Speaker 5: trial by ambush that prevailed in West Virginia until in
5:43
Speaker 5: the early sixties. The federal courts moved towards a more
5:49
Speaker 5: a little bit bureaucratic, but more functional system of handling
5:52
Speaker 5: civil cases in the thirties, and so in the sixties
5:57
Speaker 5: West Virginia got on board and Marlon Mugar, who was
6:04
Speaker 5: a professor at the law school, and a man named
6:06
Speaker 5: Silverstein from Pittsburgh they undertook to write a set of
6:09
Speaker 5: civil procedure rules for West Virginia that was adopted in
6:13
Speaker 5: I think nineteen sixty four. So when I went to
6:16
Speaker 5: law school, it was still referred to as the new rules.
6:19
Speaker 5: And now, of course the new rules that we refer
6:22
Speaker 5: to are sixty plus years old and out of sync
6:27
Speaker 5: with the federal rules, which are somewhat more they're a
6:32
Speaker 5: little more bureaucratic. I mean, there are disclosures that you
6:36
Speaker 5: have to make, and meetings that you have to have
6:39
Speaker 5: and the things that have to be scheduled. But it's
6:42
Speaker 5: not all for the worst. Most people who litigate for
6:44
Speaker 5: a living abide by those rules anyway, because you litigate
6:47
Speaker 5: in both state and federal court, and honestly, at least
6:53
Speaker 5: in higher office. The physician Tom and I have if
6:56
Speaker 5: you get a really good case that you want to
7:01
Speaker 5: move along and you've got jurisdiction in the district court,
7:07
Speaker 5: file it there. Their case loads lower. You know, it's demanding.
7:11
Speaker 5: I mean, if you have to file a response to
7:14
Speaker 5: emotion within fourteen days, you file it within fourteen days.
7:18
Speaker 5: There's no slacking around because a law clerk for the
7:22
Speaker 5: federal judge will call you and say, if you know
7:24
Speaker 5: the judge is looking for this, where is it? So
7:26
Speaker 5: you get things moved along. You have a magistrate court
7:31
Speaker 5: judged and federal a system handles discovery disputes, takes care
7:34
Speaker 5: of minor pre trial issues and some major pretrial issues.
7:38
Speaker 5: So well, that's the way we're moving now. These rules
7:41
Speaker 5: just became effective January one. They had to go through
7:46
Speaker 5: a process where rule changes were proposed to Supreme Court
7:50
Speaker 5: named the Commission of the report was made to the Court,
7:54
Speaker 5: the rules were put out for public comment for several months,
7:58
Speaker 5: changes were made, they were put out for final comment,
8:01
Speaker 5: and then the Court acted. And because I understand that
8:04
Speaker 5: the rules that took effect, you know, everything that happens
8:09
Speaker 5: in any case going forward from January one, twenty twenty
8:14
Speaker 5: five has to be in compliance with those rules, except
8:19
Speaker 5: for things that were like set by orders, scheduling orders
8:22
Speaker 5: that may have been entered before that. So it's going
8:25
Speaker 5: to be a change, it's going to be it's going
8:27
Speaker 5: to be somewhat of a challenge for practitioners, particularly those
8:33
Speaker 5: that don't do a lot of litigation, to brush out
8:36
Speaker 5: because there's some pretty there are some pretty major changes
8:39
Speaker 5: and things you have to get. You just have to
8:41
Speaker 5: get used to the idea that, look, this is this
8:43
Speaker 5: is hard work, and if you're going to litigate, you
8:45
Speaker 5: need to do things in a timely fashion. And we
8:48
Speaker 5: can't have a bunch of chilly shallying around here, which
8:51
Speaker 5: is the rule in the federal court and state judges
8:54
Speaker 5: are moving more and more in that direction, and it's
8:56
Speaker 5: not a bad thing. Some say, well, let's just a
9:00
Speaker 5: conservative attitude. Cases of being dismissed on technicalities, Well, don't
9:04
Speaker 5: let the technicalities arise. Do your job. If you undertake
9:08
Speaker 5: to represent somebody in a litigation matter, or in a
9:11
Speaker 5: matter that might result in litigation, you undertake a really
9:16
Speaker 5: high duty to that person to perform at the highest
9:19
Speaker 5: level to make sure, within the bounds of ethical propriety
9:23
Speaker 5: that they get the best result possible. I mean, that's
9:26
Speaker 5: one of the foundations of the contingent fee. People complain
9:29
Speaker 5: a bit about contingent fees and injury claims. That is
9:34
Speaker 5: a lawyer says, you know, you don't know me anything upfront,
9:37
Speaker 5: because most of these folks don't have any money to
9:39
Speaker 5: pay up front. But I'll represent you in this case.
9:42
Speaker 5: I think we've got a good chance of winning, but
9:44
Speaker 5: we've also got a good chance of losing. And there's
9:47
Speaker 5: a lot of work to be done to get this
9:49
Speaker 5: case ready. There's a lot of work to be done
9:51
Speaker 5: to find out what your claim may be worth. We'll
9:54
Speaker 5: work together on that value. But if we recover, then
9:58
Speaker 5: we're going to be paid a percentage of that which
10:02
Speaker 5: we recover on your behalf plus the expenses that we've fronted,
10:06
Speaker 5: it's gonna be anywhere from twenty to twenty five to
10:09
Speaker 5: thirty three percent, some cases higher than that, depending on
10:13
Speaker 5: the degree of risk involved. But well, that's criticized by
10:20
Speaker 5: many people who don't want folks to have access to
10:23
Speaker 5: the courthouse. It is still the key to the courthouse
10:27
Speaker 5: for those of lower modern income who otherwise couldn't afford
10:33
Speaker 5: to hire the lawyers that the insurance companies and the
10:35
Speaker 5: banks and the government regulators all hire to try and
10:40
Speaker 5: beat you down. So but in order to justify that
10:45
Speaker 5: arrangement between the client and the lawyer, the lawyer's got
10:47
Speaker 5: to be willing to do the work. No case is
10:49
Speaker 5: bigger than the lawyer thinks it is. And we've actually
10:52
Speaker 5: have a banner. We made it ourselves on a printer.
10:55
Speaker 5: You do almost anything nowadays with yeah, at least a
11:01
Speaker 5: little kitchen area at the office. No case is bigger
11:03
Speaker 5: than the lawyer thinks it is. And every case is
11:05
Speaker 5: the biggest one that client has. And that's just a fact.
11:10
Speaker 5: And to segue into it, that's why we've been really
11:12
Speaker 5: successful at the Peyton Law Firm and why we have
11:15
Speaker 5: a good following, and why we really hope that folks
11:18
Speaker 5: who may have suffered an injury, a loss, a loss
11:22
Speaker 5: of life, a loss of limb, a financial loss, damage
11:27
Speaker 5: to property or a person, or maybe you've suffered a
11:30
Speaker 5: compensable injury at work or a disability claim. The people
11:33
Speaker 5: who are generally marginalized and don't have a lot of
11:37
Speaker 5: a voice. If you want a voice, at least, think
11:39
Speaker 5: about us. I'm not sure what kind of voice you
11:41
Speaker 5: get to speak on your behalf if you answer an
11:46
Speaker 5: ad from a law firm that has I've seen signs
11:50
Speaker 5: on every building in the South. I've seen them in Florida.
11:52
Speaker 5: I've seen them in South Carolina for the M and ms.
11:56
Speaker 5: They talk in their mouth, but no cash in your hand.
11:58
Speaker 5: I don't know how that works. But we're at twenty
12:02
Speaker 5: eight oh one First Avenue in Nitro. We've had a
12:05
Speaker 5: presence in Kanah, Putnam, Cabal, Mason Jack, the whole area
12:10
Speaker 5: here in southeast Ohio for fifty years, fifty one years actually,
12:15
Speaker 5: and we're here to help you. We want to help people.
12:18
Speaker 5: So if you give us a look, and well, I
12:21
Speaker 5: saw this on TV. If you watch television at lunchtime
12:23
Speaker 5: on Channel three my gosh, get ready because it's just
12:27
Speaker 5: NonStop boom boom boom. We'll see. We don't spend any
12:32
Speaker 5: money on television because it's going to change the complete
12:35
Speaker 5: complexion of what you do. You're gonna get I mean,
12:40
Speaker 5: you're gonna have to have more staff because you've got
12:41
Speaker 5: to return these calls unless you just don't return the calls,
12:44
Speaker 5: which some folks don't. And I'm not wrapping advertising. It
12:49
Speaker 5: lowers barriers, sometimes too much, but it does make people
12:55
Speaker 5: more aware of their rights and the other side of responsibilities.
12:58
Speaker 5: I think we do a better job if we had
13:03
Speaker 5: more advertising with regard to basic services that folks need
13:08
Speaker 5: outside of the litigation field. You get involved in a lawsuit,
13:10
Speaker 5: you really can't predict from day one all the work
13:13
Speaker 5: that's going to be needed to get to day two
13:15
Speaker 5: or day three because it's a fluid situation. But if
13:19
Speaker 5: someone calls and says, look, I want to try to
13:24
Speaker 5: buy out my partner from this business. I got this paperwork.
13:27
Speaker 5: Would you look that over? Well, yeah, and here's what
13:29
Speaker 5: we'll charge you by the eyre. Here's what it's going
13:31
Speaker 5: to cost. You know, got a You know, if you
13:34
Speaker 5: can advertise those things probably be more were meaningful to
13:39
Speaker 5: more members of the public. But we're at the Peyton
13:43
Speaker 5: Law Firm as far as we're concerned, no matter what
13:45
Speaker 5: your financial circumstances are, we try to help you, and
13:49
Speaker 5: we try to help you honestly, sometimes to a fault
13:54
Speaker 5: where you end up doing a whole lot of work
13:55
Speaker 5: on a case that you know it's not worth anything.
13:57
Speaker 5: We think, you know, some people just deserve to be sue.
14:00
Speaker 5: These people have been treated badly and it's you know,
14:04
Speaker 5: it's stunning sometimes to an insurance adjuster. They'll horse somebody
14:09
Speaker 5: around on a property damage claim and maybe it's just
14:12
Speaker 5: a few thousand dollars because well, this person, they're not
14:14
Speaker 5: gonna find it. Well, then all of a sudden we
14:16
Speaker 5: get involved. Well what are you doing in a case
14:18
Speaker 5: like this? So, well, I'm doing the same thing you're doing, buddy,
14:21
Speaker 5: I'm trying to maximize a good result for my client.
14:24
Speaker 5: Now you work for an insurance company. You got a
14:26
Speaker 5: law degree, but you're sitting behind a desk and you're
14:28
Speaker 5: trying to screw this little person down because you know
14:31
Speaker 5: you can wait them out and sweat them because you
14:33
Speaker 5: don't think they'll get a lawyer. Well, now they got
14:34
Speaker 5: a lawyer, Well, all of a sudden, you know what happens,
14:36
Speaker 5: They get settled, they get resolved. And that's why people
14:42
Speaker 5: shouldn't make any money on it. We do, you know,
14:44
Speaker 5: we don't. I mean, we're not a charity outfit. It's
14:46
Speaker 5: a business. You got to pay your bills. But but
14:49
Speaker 5: that's why I've been the purpose of actually doing this
14:52
Speaker 5: show from the very beginning, when we started almost twenty
14:54
Speaker 5: seven years ago, was that people shouldn't be afraid to
14:58
Speaker 5: call a lawyer.
14:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, don't be afraid to access the law. It's
15:01
Speaker 4: there to protect you.
15:02
Speaker 5: And we can talk. If you want to get in
15:04
Speaker 5: touch with the Peyton Law Firm, then we've got to
15:07
Speaker 5: easy to remember number three oh four seven, five, five,
15:11
Speaker 5: fifty five fifty six, hard to save it, easy to remember,
15:14
Speaker 5: And we have a great website, Peytonlawfirm dot com and
15:17
Speaker 5: you can go there and send an email that only
15:20
Speaker 5: comes to either my desk or Tom's desk. And that's
15:22
Speaker 5: a really good way to get started, because then we say,
15:24
Speaker 5: well tell me a little bit more, we get more information,
15:27
Speaker 5: then maybe we'll schedule a telephone conference so we can
15:30
Speaker 5: talk about things. So we kind of get emails is
15:33
Speaker 5: a really good way of rapid communication, but it's a
15:36
Speaker 5: terrible way to draw conclusions about things because there are
15:40
Speaker 5: ways of saying things well no or no, right, yeah.
15:46
Speaker 5: I mean, that's why there's a constitutional mandate of the
15:50
Speaker 5: right to confront and cross examine your accuser. You can
15:52
Speaker 5: read anything off a page in a deadpan monotone, but
15:57
Speaker 5: you see a witness testify and see how they act
16:00
Speaker 5: and see how they are voice in flex and the
16:01
Speaker 5: same way with communication. Once we reach a point where
16:04
Speaker 5: we think, well, you know, this is a case that's
16:05
Speaker 5: got some equity to it, call on the phone and
16:11
Speaker 5: you get to you know, you can talk and see, well,
16:13
Speaker 5: you've got to get a little rapport going and say, okay,
16:15
Speaker 5: well this looks like this is a good fit. Then
16:17
Speaker 5: come on in the office. Bring your papers or the
16:20
Speaker 5: good thing now is email all that if you have
16:23
Speaker 5: the capacity to attach it. I'll look over all your
16:25
Speaker 5: papers and then we'll be ready when you come in.
16:28
Speaker 5: We can talk about your injury, we can talk about
16:31
Speaker 5: what the bank did, we can talk about why the
16:33
Speaker 5: insurance company won't pay your claim, and then tell folks,
16:38
Speaker 5: you know, here's what's involved. You should never get anybody
16:41
Speaker 5: involved in litigation unless they understand litigation is litigation, and
16:45
Speaker 5: you submit yourself to the control of a court to
16:48
Speaker 5: a degree you follow a lawsuit, you're saying, I believe
16:53
Speaker 5: I'm entitled relief, and I understand that I have the
16:56
Speaker 5: burden of proof, and I have the responsibility to reply
17:00
Speaker 5: and comply with court orders. I have a responsibility to
17:03
Speaker 5: produce information that maybe I don't want to produce. Maybe
17:06
Speaker 5: you don't want to share one of your visits with
17:10
Speaker 5: the doctor, but if it's an injury claim, that may
17:12
Speaker 5: well be relevant and you don't have to. I don't
17:14
Speaker 5: want to take a day off and go sit in
17:16
Speaker 5: a room and have a lawyer examined me in deposition. Yeah,
17:19
Speaker 5: but that's one of the things when you follow lawsuit,
17:22
Speaker 5: you undertake to do and you need to really people
17:25
Speaker 5: need to understand that there's no magic. I would say,
17:29
Speaker 5: of course, ninety percent of cases that are filers settled
17:32
Speaker 5: ninety plus probably, and in these days of forced mediation
17:36
Speaker 5: and mandatory arbitration and contracts, it's that's going to hold true.
17:42
Speaker 5: But still the old art of trying a case in
17:46
Speaker 5: front of a judge or a jury is still there,
17:49
Speaker 5: and you need to explain to Bill. You know, we
17:51
Speaker 5: can get there. That's where we get we can get
17:53
Speaker 5: there that you might get what you want, and we
17:57
Speaker 5: think we can do that for you at the end
17:59
Speaker 5: of the day. But let's take into consideration, what's the
18:01
Speaker 5: cost of that trip going to be. If the cost
18:05
Speaker 5: of traveling from here beginning of the case to their
18:08
Speaker 5: end of the case equals or exceeds the realistic probable
18:13
Speaker 5: value of the case. Well, and let's talk about being
18:15
Speaker 5: more realistic here, and let's see if we can get
18:17
Speaker 5: this thing resolved. It's not what you want. But you know,
18:22
Speaker 5: if you play this thing completely through the system to
18:24
Speaker 5: where what you want, you're going to be disappointed because
18:28
Speaker 5: that's not what you're gonna get. You're gonna get that
18:30
Speaker 5: less acquisition costs. That makes sense.
18:33
Speaker 4: I think it makes total sense. And I'm wanted to
18:35
Speaker 4: reset to a couple of things before we go to
18:36
Speaker 4: the break there that I think is hugely important. Of course,
18:38
Speaker 4: people that have listened to this station are at always
18:40
Speaker 4: known the Payton Law Firm forever. If you just live
18:42
Speaker 4: in the area, you know, you know the Payton Law
18:44
Speaker 4: Firm by name. But a couple of things that Harvey
18:46
Speaker 4: said there, especially as you apply to modern times that
18:49
Speaker 4: are so important. We talk a lot about the lawyer
18:51
Speaker 4: in a box that we see around here, flood and
18:54
Speaker 4: TV and everything else, and you get a lot of that.
18:56
Speaker 4: Everything that you just walked through. There different in every state.
19:00
Speaker 4: There's different codes and statues and different things like that.
19:03
Speaker 4: You can be you could be licensed to operate in
19:06
Speaker 4: a state without really knowing the intricacies of how different
19:10
Speaker 4: codes and laws and things work. And one thing you
19:12
Speaker 4: certainly don't know is the individual judges, the clerks at
19:15
Speaker 4: the courthouses, and different things along those lines. That it's
19:18
Speaker 4: not that you're asking for extra favors. It just helps
19:20
Speaker 4: when you know people. Certainly, you know, it just helps
19:22
Speaker 4: when you have a relationship. When you have twenty years,
19:24
Speaker 4: in thirty years, in forty years in of doing even
19:27
Speaker 4: just professional work with each other, that kind of relationship
19:29
Speaker 4: means something. And you don't get that with the lawyer
19:32
Speaker 4: out of the boxing. You definitely don't get that. Another
19:33
Speaker 4: thing that people are doing anymore is that having AI
19:36
Speaker 4: argue their cases for him. You know, they have AI
19:38
Speaker 4: make the documents for him. AI tells them the process
19:40
Speaker 4: to go through. Here's the order you need to go
19:42
Speaker 4: to fight this. Hey, I doesn't know squat about this,
19:45
Speaker 4: especially state to state. They have no idea at all,
19:48
Speaker 4: and you're going to get yourself in trouble if that's
19:50
Speaker 4: how you're going about the law.
19:51
Speaker 5: Well, relating back to Martin lug Are, the brilliant professor
19:58
Speaker 5: at WVU who wrote, along with mister Silversea and the
20:02
Speaker 5: first Rules of Modern Rules of Civil Procedure. He had
20:05
Speaker 5: a procedure class, and he'd say, now, gentlemen, because unfortunately
20:12
Speaker 5: he and the other professors just to refuse to acknowledge
20:15
Speaker 5: the five women who were in our class, gentlemen, you
20:18
Speaker 5: want to go to these courthouses, let me tell you.
20:21
Speaker 5: Here's who you look for. The first person you want
20:23
Speaker 5: to get to really know is the janitor, he said.
20:26
Speaker 5: If you don't know what a janitor looks like, it'll
20:28
Speaker 5: be a man or woman around there with a bucket.
20:29
Speaker 5: And I'm mop in a broom, he said, So they
20:32
Speaker 5: know where everything is. So when first you go in there,
20:34
Speaker 5: you find out he's talked to that person, and be
20:36
Speaker 5: nice to him cause they can tell you where to go.
20:39
Speaker 5: And then the next person is the one lady in
20:41
Speaker 5: the clerk's office. Because those were quote women's jobs at
20:45
Speaker 5: the time, right, you know, because she's the one that's
20:48
Speaker 5: gonna take care of the jury, and you know, says,
20:52
Speaker 5: they're the people are going to smile at you in
20:53
Speaker 5: the courtroom and the jury's going to see that, or
20:55
Speaker 5: they're the people, you know, the the county clerk's gonna
20:58
Speaker 5: wave to you when you go. And somebody who's in
21:00
Speaker 5: the jury who voted for him really likes it, well,
21:02
Speaker 5: they must be, okay, they're a friend of old Bob's
21:04
Speaker 5: over there, so's those are the things that are important.
21:08
Speaker 5: No jur or that I've ever come across is going
21:11
Speaker 5: to do anything to help somebody they don't like. I mean,
21:15
Speaker 5: that has a lot to do with it. I said,
21:17
Speaker 5: you've got one of the very best prosecutors in the
21:21
Speaker 5: history of the state of West Virginia was an assistant
21:23
Speaker 5: in Knaw County, Pete Brown. Pete was legendary among law enforcement.
21:28
Speaker 5: He could ask Mary Claire Acre says on the bench.
21:30
Speaker 5: She worked in the prosecutor's office. When Pete was there,
21:32
Speaker 5: he had more people serving life without mercy for murder
21:37
Speaker 5: convictions in the state prison system than any other prosecutor
21:40
Speaker 5: in the state. I think more than all of them combined.
21:42
Speaker 5: Pete just a good lawyer, and we've got we were
21:44
Speaker 5: really good friends. And I showed up. We were trying
21:48
Speaker 5: to case some sort of a theft case out in
21:51
Speaker 5: Dunbar in front of Andy McQueen. I showed up and
21:54
Speaker 5: I had a sport kind of Paris like. I said,
21:56
Speaker 5: what do you do? And I said, well, what are
21:58
Speaker 5: you wearing? I said, well, Pete, there's something wrong. He said, no,
22:02
Speaker 5: I'm the one that's supposed to wear. You're supposed to
22:04
Speaker 5: be wearing an expensive suit. He said, I never I
22:06
Speaker 5: don't run an expensive suit. So I like these tweets,
22:09
Speaker 5: he said, I want to be the guy they want
22:10
Speaker 5: to take home to supper. Right. I love these guys
22:14
Speaker 5: that come in here and expensive suits with pocket hank
22:17
Speaker 5: he said, they're not They're easy pickings. That's so there
22:21
Speaker 5: is a lot to be said for that. You know,
22:24
Speaker 5: it's hard to win on the road, whether it's football, basketball,
22:27
Speaker 5: or in the practice of law, if you go outside
22:30
Speaker 5: your jurisdiction. Now in the federal courts, I mean, Tom
22:34
Speaker 5: and I went over to Columbus here a few years
22:36
Speaker 5: ago to try to really big federal employer's liability case
22:40
Speaker 5: against Norfolk Southern and I was Judge Smith, who's really
22:47
Speaker 5: it's a little different federal court because everybody's playing by
22:49
Speaker 5: the same rules everywhere. And you know, the courtroom staff
22:53
Speaker 5: is extremely professional, and you're going to go into buildings
22:57
Speaker 5: that are controlled by the General Services Administrations. They're spotless
23:00
Speaker 5: and the technical work is all good. But on a
23:05
Speaker 5: micro level, if you're litigating and got all Putnam Mason Lincoln,
23:13
Speaker 5: Megs County, Ohio, Gallia County, I don't think you can
23:18
Speaker 5: do much better than the Peyton Law Firm. I'm not
23:21
Speaker 5: saying we're the best, that's a big thing to say,
23:23
Speaker 5: but I'm certainly with rank us is one of the best.
23:25
Speaker 5: And I think my son Tom is the best. Now,
23:28
Speaker 5: having said that, not to give him a big head,
23:31
Speaker 5: let's take a break.
23:32
Speaker 4: Let's do that. Let's take a break and make sure
23:34
Speaker 4: that you get the phone number out there, because you
23:36
Speaker 4: can call Harvey this morn if you have any questions
23:37
Speaker 4: about lawy you put law on your side. Anything we
23:39
Speaker 4: talked about this morning, something that's bothering you, or maybe
23:41
Speaker 4: a loved one that they don't have access to make
23:43
Speaker 4: a phone call, You're more than welcome to give us
23:45
Speaker 4: a call this morning. Three zero four, three four two
23:46
Speaker 4: eight one three one three four two eight one three
23:48
Speaker 4: one is the number just asked to talk to the expert.
23:51
Speaker 4: When ask the lawyer, and we'll get you back to
23:52
Speaker 4: the studio. Ryan's over there and we'll get you over
23:54
Speaker 4: here to Harvey. So three zero four, three four two
23:56
Speaker 4: eight one three one. You can text over any questions
23:58
Speaker 4: you have to three zero four nine three five five
24:00
Speaker 4: zero zero eight. We'll go ahead and take a break
24:02
Speaker 4: and be backward after this. This is asked the lawyer, Harvey.
24:04
Speaker 4: Payton's here from the Payton Law Firm. When five edwcchs
24:07
Speaker 4: the voice of Charleston.
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Speaker 4: You can put the power of Payton on your side
25:38
Speaker 4: this morning. Three zero four three four two eight one
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Speaker 4: three one three zero four three four two eight one
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Speaker 4: three one. You can text three zero four non three
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Speaker 4: five five zero zero eight Peyton Lawfirm dot com. That's p.
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Speaker 4: E y t O in Peyton, Lawfirom dot Com in Nitro,
25:49
Speaker 4: West Virginia. Their phone number, of course seven five five
25:51
Speaker 4: fifty five fifty six seven five five fifty five fifty six.
25:54
Speaker 4: That's Harvey said, it's an easy number to remember, and
25:56
Speaker 4: in this day and age, although I'm old enough to
25:58
Speaker 4: have been to have grown up in the era where
26:01
Speaker 4: you remembered phone numbers, Honestly, in the last decade or so,
26:04
Speaker 4: I don't bother anymore like most people don't. You know,
26:06
Speaker 4: you don't commit numbers. But I've also spent some time
26:08
Speaker 4: in other countries, and that was during a time when
26:11
Speaker 4: I did no phone numbers. And I've often thought that
26:13
Speaker 4: if something happened to me where I lost my phone
26:15
Speaker 4: and I was in another country and I needed to
26:17
Speaker 4: call somebody, there's only a handful of numbers that I
26:19
Speaker 4: know off the top of my head. I know my mom's,
26:21
Speaker 4: but oftentimes she's not home, and she lives in Beaumont,
26:23
Speaker 4: West Virginia. Their phone doesn't work probably seventy percent of
26:25
Speaker 4: the time, so who knows if I could get through
26:27
Speaker 4: to her or not. So then I know Jeff Ericson,
26:29
Speaker 4: who has a really easy number to remember who's a
26:31
Speaker 4: fantasy baseball expert, So I don't know how much use
26:34
Speaker 4: he would be. And I know Harvey Payton's phone number.
26:37
Speaker 4: That's probably the more useful one of the three that
26:39
Speaker 4: I know.
26:39
Speaker 5: Off the top of my head. Will be glad to
26:41
Speaker 5: help you. If you call, I can tell you that.
26:43
Speaker 5: Oh man, yes, I wanted to. In the last few
26:47
Speaker 5: minutes we have pure away. There's a lot of things
26:50
Speaker 5: happening in Washington, and I'll admit that I have not
26:54
Speaker 5: intensely followed or reacted to any number of the executive
26:59
Speaker 5: orders that have been issuing from the White House or
27:03
Speaker 5: from the Department of Government Efficiency, if that's what it's called.
27:08
Speaker 5: Because those are political questions, they should mean Congress should
27:11
Speaker 5: step in here. That's their responsibility. If there's going to
27:15
Speaker 5: be any modification or amelioration of the effects of these
27:23
Speaker 5: numerous orders about staffing and personnel and funding, Congress is
27:27
Speaker 5: going to have to do it. The courts will in
27:31
Speaker 5: some cases, I think this inspector general firing without the
27:36
Speaker 5: compliance with the notice period. But what do you do?
27:38
Speaker 5: You just give them notice and fire them anyway. But
27:41
Speaker 5: you know, the the the dealing with the birthright citizenship
27:49
Speaker 5: of the Fourteenth Amendment, in my mind as a lawyer,
27:53
Speaker 5: supersedes in importance all of those issues. You know, we birth.
28:00
Speaker 5: The right citizenship has been a part of the common
28:02
Speaker 5: law of Western civilization from the time of the Greeks.
28:07
Speaker 5: If you know you were a citizen of where you
28:09
Speaker 5: were born, you might also be a citizen of the
28:13
Speaker 5: country of nationality of your parents. Could have dual citizenship
28:18
Speaker 5: carried over to England. People born in England were British subjects.
28:24
Speaker 5: It wasn't that way in the original Articles of Confederation
28:29
Speaker 5: or the United States Constitution, because our founding fathers had
28:33
Speaker 5: to deal with a bifurcated society. We had human beings
28:41
Speaker 5: in the United States of America who were not considered citizens,
28:47
Speaker 5: who were not accorded any consideration with regard to rights.
28:52
Speaker 5: They were property. They were protected as property, like we
28:55
Speaker 5: protect coon hounds now or beagle dogs, you know. And
29:00
Speaker 5: we can't be cruel to a slave, but you've got
29:02
Speaker 5: to feed him and find him a place to sleep.
29:04
Speaker 5: I mean, that was just the way it was. And
29:07
Speaker 5: that was made even more blamed by the dread Scott
29:10
Speaker 5: decision of eighteen fifty eight, considered the worst which said that,
29:14
Speaker 5: you know, people of African dessent can never be citizens
29:16
Speaker 5: there or property. Interestingly enough, that was written by Roger Tawney,
29:22
Speaker 5: one of the worst Supreme Court justice of all times,
29:25
Speaker 5: who happened to be the brother in law Francis Scott Key.
29:28
Speaker 5: Oh wow, and I'm surprised that hasn't been taken. And
29:30
Speaker 5: Francis Scott Key was a radical racist and enslaver of
29:35
Speaker 5: human beings, just like his brother in law. But it's
29:38
Speaker 5: a great song. He unites us all, at least the
29:41
Speaker 5: first verse. The third verse has significant racist overtones about
29:46
Speaker 5: British soldiers. However, after the Civil War we got the
29:50
Speaker 5: Reconstruction Amendments, the Thirteenth Amendment of abolished in voluntary servitude.
29:55
Speaker 5: Not the Promancipation Proclamation only applied to those states who
29:59
Speaker 5: were in rebellion against the United States, but the Thirteenth
30:02
Speaker 5: Amendment abolished involuntary servitude everywhere. Then you had the Fifteenth Amendment,
30:08
Speaker 5: which guaranteed the right to vote to people of color.
30:12
Speaker 5: And in the middle of the Fourteenth Amendment, which is
30:14
Speaker 5: really one of the most operative amendments, it made the
30:19
Speaker 5: Bill of Rights, which was set forth in the Federal
30:22
Speaker 5: Constitution applicable to the States. Due process extended to everybody then,
30:28
Speaker 5: and it extended to who citizen. It says, any person
30:34
Speaker 5: born or naturalized within the United States comma and subject
30:39
Speaker 5: to the jurisdiction there of Comma, is and shall be
30:43
Speaker 5: a citizen of the United States. That seems pretty plain
30:45
Speaker 5: on his face. That was challenged the case if you're
30:52
Speaker 5: born in the United States, within the territorial confines of
30:54
Speaker 5: the United States of America, you're a citizen, regardless of
30:57
Speaker 5: the nationality of your parents. Well, that's an accepted truism,
31:03
Speaker 5: that's black letter law. But we're going to find out
31:06
Speaker 5: over the next year or two. I think that that
31:09
Speaker 5: may not necessarily be so. And I mean, I don't
31:13
Speaker 5: want to draw the slings and arrows of my more
31:16
Speaker 5: liberal or libertarian colleagues, But what does it mean subject
31:21
Speaker 5: to the jurisdiction era If we know what it meant
31:23
Speaker 5: in eighteen sixty eight or eighteen seventy, it meant Indigenous
31:30
Speaker 5: American Indians. They were not subjects at that time, and
31:34
Speaker 5: Congress was not going to propose to the states that
31:39
Speaker 5: all persons born within the United States were citizens and
31:43
Speaker 5: have that apply to American Indians. We were still at
31:47
Speaker 5: war with the commandcing nation for another twenty five years,
31:54
Speaker 5: or the family of diplomats if someone were assigned here
31:58
Speaker 5: or involuntarily held here as a prisoner of some other
32:01
Speaker 5: jurisdiction and a child was born, and that child's not
32:05
Speaker 5: subject to the jurisdiction in the United States, diplomatic children
32:09
Speaker 5: American Indians. That was corrected in nineteen twenty five when
32:13
Speaker 5: Congress passed the Indian Citizenship Act, which for the first
32:16
Speaker 5: time made all Native American citizens in the United States.
32:19
Speaker 5: So then we had a case where a young man
32:21
Speaker 5: was born in San Francisco to Chinese parents. But now
32:26
Speaker 5: remember they were in the United States before there were
32:29
Speaker 5: immigration laws. So they entered through the Port of San
32:32
Speaker 5: Francisco engaged in some commercial enterprise. I think it was
32:36
Speaker 5: a store to service the Chinese community that was in
32:39
Speaker 5: San Francisco to build the railroads. This young man was
32:44
Speaker 5: born and his parents went back to China, as did
32:46
Speaker 5: most of the people who came to California from China
32:50
Speaker 5: to work. They went home. Then in the interim, Congress
32:54
Speaker 5: passed the Chinese Exclusion Act. Think about that, we had
32:57
Speaker 5: a United States Congress passed the actor simply said nobody
33:01
Speaker 5: can commend to this country from China. We don't want
33:05
Speaker 5: them Chinaman taking our jobs. I mean, did they have
33:08
Speaker 5: a ring to it? Today? When this young man came back,
33:12
Speaker 5: he presented himself at a port of entry, and they said,
33:15
Speaker 5: you can't come in. You're not a citizen, You're a Chinaman.
33:18
Speaker 5: You can't come here. We got an exclusion. So I'm
33:20
Speaker 5: an American citizen. I was born in San Francisco. So
33:23
Speaker 5: that went to the United States Supreme Court and they affirmed, yes,
33:26
Speaker 5: it means what it says, but they discussed in that
33:30
Speaker 5: the exemptions. Now you rolled that forward to today, is
33:36
Speaker 5: a court going to find well, yes, you were born
33:40
Speaker 5: in the United States. You were born in a relief
33:44
Speaker 5: center in the Spassos, Texas, where your mother was being
33:51
Speaker 5: held subject to deportation or an asylum hearing. After having
33:57
Speaker 5: crossed the Rio Grande in the middle of the night
34:02
Speaker 5: to come into this country without presenting a visa or
34:05
Speaker 5: a passport at the border. You would think, well, what if,
34:11
Speaker 5: what factors are we going to look to then to
34:12
Speaker 5: determine whether that child at birth was subject to the
34:15
Speaker 5: jurisdiction in the United States. Plus he's being held involuntarily
34:19
Speaker 5: at a detention center. Her parents are being held their
34:22
Speaker 5: subject to the jurisdiction to deport them. I'll have to
34:25
Speaker 5: be asked to say, I don't know how that's going
34:27
Speaker 5: to come out. I think it would have extremely far
34:30
Speaker 5: reaching consequences if the court was to reverse the eighteen
34:38
Speaker 5: ninety five case and established clearly birthright citizenship, because then
34:43
Speaker 5: who who is a citizen? What are you have to
34:47
Speaker 5: look in every case under the circumstances of that person's
34:50
Speaker 5: parent being present in the United States, as opposed to
34:55
Speaker 5: a bright line rule which says, well if you're if
34:59
Speaker 5: you're born here, you if you're a citizen. Now, Congress,
35:02
Speaker 5: I'm sure could modify somehow the approach the verifying that
35:14
Speaker 5: child's citizenship the actual birth year, of the status of
35:18
Speaker 5: the parents. But other than that, it looks to me
35:21
Speaker 5: like that's the end of the question. But you never
35:23
Speaker 5: know what a court will say. I would predict that
35:26
Speaker 5: given somewhat unreliable character of the courts now, the partisanship
35:30
Speaker 5: has been the primary factor in the appointment of especially
35:35
Speaker 5: Apalla judges. Someone may be willing to say, well, yeah,
35:40
Speaker 5: but the parents of the young Chinese man, they were
35:43
Speaker 5: here lawfully because there was no law against it at
35:46
Speaker 5: the time. And American Indians we know who they were,
35:50
Speaker 5: we know who they are now, they're established tribes. They've
35:53
Speaker 5: been granted citizenship by Congress. But what about the what
36:02
Speaker 5: about the Israeli child whose mother came here to get
36:05
Speaker 5: away from the bombing near Gaza and slipped in across
36:09
Speaker 5: an over state or visa. Yeah, he's got a tourist
36:12
Speaker 5: visa good for six months. Just overstated. I'm not going back.
36:15
Speaker 5: You know, I'm pregnant, I'm gonna have a child. I'm
36:16
Speaker 5: not going back there. It's too dangerous as a child here.
36:20
Speaker 5: So boom, we'll see. It'll be interesting. I will will
36:23
Speaker 5: follow that closes implicated. Yeah, that's it could lead to
36:25
Speaker 5: a lot. Like you said, the back end of that.
36:28
Speaker 5: If it goes the other way, it's pretty all unintended consequences.
36:33
Speaker 5: It's just like USAI D. You can cut off all
36:35
Speaker 5: aid because you're worried about magazine subscriptions. But if the
36:40
Speaker 5: effect is one hundred thousand children starved to death and
36:43
Speaker 5: sub Saharan Africa, that's not what you wanted to try
36:47
Speaker 5: and do. It's a bad approach.
36:48
Speaker 4: Now I'm worried about you know, if my stock goes
36:51
Speaker 4: back farther than my neighbors.
36:53
Speaker 5: Well, my mother became a citizen in the United States
36:55
Speaker 5: just that way. She and her sister Eliza were born
36:58
Speaker 5: in Raleigh in a cold camp. Neither one of her
37:00
Speaker 5: answer citizens in United States, and her mother, my grandmother
37:02
Speaker 5: never became a citizen. My grandfather did. He had fought
37:05
Speaker 5: in the British Army. He had no qualms about it.
37:08
Speaker 5: But because taking the youth the citizenship required you to
37:11
Speaker 5: forswear leadience to any prince repotentate, she simply refused to
37:15
Speaker 5: be a British subject.
37:16
Speaker 4: It's an interesting question. We'll follow it along here. Peyton
37:19
Speaker 4: Law Firm and Nitro West Virginia, Payton Law Firm dot Com.
37:21
Speaker 4: Three zero four seven five five fifty five fifty six
37:24
Speaker 4: three zero four seven five five fifty five fifty six
37:26
Speaker 4: every Thursday at eight twenty right here on five EDWC.
37:28
Speaker 5: Jess Harvey.
37:28
Speaker 4: We'll see you are tom next week. We will indeed
37:30
Speaker 4: appreciate it. Thanks a lot for your time that much.
37:32
Speaker 4: That's the Peyton Law Firm. I'm del Cooper. Dave Allen
37:34
Speaker 4: is up next on five eight Live. I'll be back
37:35
Speaker 4: this afternoon at three ZH six on Hotline. Have a
37:37
Speaker 4: great day, everyone.
37:41
Speaker 2: Fighting, WCHSA ninety six point five A, then Charleston one
37:44
Speaker 2: oh four point five Cross Lane, WVRC Media Station. We're
37:50
Speaker 2: proud to live here too,