Latest / NYPD Through The Looking Glass / NYPD Deputy Inspector Michael Lau

Transcript

NYPD Deputy Inspector Michael Lau · NYPD Through The Looking Glass

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I look up and I see a Chinese kid walking in the middle of the power.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Powery is two-way traffic, three lanes on each side.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: But he's like Moses.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's in the middle street, but in his hand, he's got a freaking gun.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I go, Lance.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we we get up and uh we have the shield on chain, you know what buffs.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh even off duty, we're still wearing it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So take it out, and I go, police.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and he goes, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for a second, like, what the f I said, police.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh then I I fired back.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Carried uh back then was just 38, so I had my chief, five shots.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he I guess I think he had a chief or but it was revolvers, you know, 89.
• 0:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Your first thing is, now he's firing me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: How come I'm not shot?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing, now it's pissing me off.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm firing back and he's not falling.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: But he he fires boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Then he just turns around and he starts running.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for a slight second, I said, Oh, I'm gonna shoot him.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I probably would have missed anyway.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's running.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is retired NYPD Deputy Inspector Michael Lau.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mike, welcome to the show.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Mike, please tell our listeners a little something about yourself.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, um, where do I start?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I was originally born in Hong Kong.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have two younger brothers.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: In 1971, uh, we were sponsored to come over to this country from Hong Kong.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: We immigrated.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um I remember, I remember flying on a plane, seeing snow for the first time, you know, and uh thinking how clean New York City looked.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because first time, right, from the air, everything looks pristine.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then my uncle, uh not a real uncle, like a quasi-uncle, like, you know, but in Chinese you called everybody uncle.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Picks us up from the airport, drives us to Alphabet City, and it didn't look so clean anymore, you know?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And for the first few years, we stayed in that one-bedroom apartment.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: I remember like the first time going into the apartment, he flicked on the lights, and there were all these like scurrying noises and stuff like that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: We learned later on there were mice, roaches everywhere.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And for the first few years, we all slept on one mattress, you know, five of us.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mom, dad, uh, me, and my two younger brothers.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was hard because it didn't matter what you were in Hong Kong.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you came to the U.S., you don't speak the language.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Your father's gonna work in one of Chinatown's restaurants, and your mom's gonna work in one of Chinatown's sweatshops.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's basically how it worked.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't matter if you were a photographer, whatever, whatever you did, didn't matter.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: You come to a country, you don't speak the language, that's what you're gonna do to make a living, right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And during those first couple years, when we had like nothing, we were like, my my parents were routed.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was sad hearing that because you know, you know, at middle of the night you're on one mattress and you hear your mom or dad crying on the side.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know life is tough.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even though you're just a young kid, you you know, it's tough.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a few years after that, we hit the lottery, you know.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not that the real lottery, but my parents applied for public housing, and we we we got accepted, and we moved from Alphabet City down to the outskirts of Chinatown, Ruckers Houses.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it for us, it was like, you know, really hit pay dirt, you know.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: One mattress, one room, to three bedrooms, you know, view of the water, view squinted your eyes, you know, the East River was a block away.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the only bad thing was the every five minutes you hear the trains going across the bridge.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and that that's how my early childhood went.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember one day, my mom was picking us up from school, you know.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm in the fifth or sixth grade.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: After the regular class, because my mom had to work as a seamstress, we were enrolled in this after-school program that were in the same school.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: They would just pick you up from that school.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you whenever regular school ended, you'd just go upstairs to the after-school program, and that finished at six.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: But mom was always late because you didn't get paid by the hour.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I guess even if you did, she would stay the longest.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: But by every piece or every trouser you sold, every dress you sold, that's so she would stay to the very end until it was time.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she we always be like the last ones to be picked up.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the counselor would always say, Oh, when's your mom coming?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my mom would always come scurrying down, hurrying down the block, and my counselor goes, Oh, I think that's her there.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And mom would always offer the guy an apple or something, and the counselor would like reluctantly accept it.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Please come early tomorrow, Miss Lau, you know, whatever.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom goes, and uh, we only lived a block away from the the building that we lived in, the scoop.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And on this one particular day, uh, mom's picked us up later as usual.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: We go into the building.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's this guy standing by the door, and he's smoking a cigarette.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And mom goes, Hey, doesn't look like a good guy, you know.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, we're gonna wait until somebody non-Asian comes into the building, and then we'll go into the elevator, you know.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh by that point, again, my parents had been robbed several times.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I never saw it personally, but you know, we know that it happened.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we we wait about 15 minutes, and a Hispanic woman comes into the building, and she looks at him, but she goes right to the elevator, presses the button, elevator comes, and she goes in.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And mom says, Let's go, let's go.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we follow mom into the elevator.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I turn my head, I swear to God, the guy was standing by the door, still, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: But before the elevator door closed, I think his foot or whatever made it, and then the door retracts, and now he slides into an elevator.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So now mom goes, Hey, don't press our floor.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna leave with that woman.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was the 12th floor or whatever.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: The guy presses like a floor above.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was 17, I don't know for sure, but in my mind, I don't know why those numbers stick.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the housing development, the elevator, every time it goes a floor, it goes ding, ding, ding.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So signal each floor.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember you my i it was like my heart was beating to that same rate.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And finally the elevator opens, stops, and uh the woman goes out and she makes a write.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: She looks back at us, doesn't say a word, but she goes into her apartment, and uh we hear like the locks engaging.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the whole time I'm looking back at the elevator.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: The door never shut.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when the I guess the lock, uh second lock engages, then that guy steps out of the elevator now.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of holding smoking, he's now holding a knife, and he's going, money, money, money.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom pretends she doesn't speak English, and she offers the guy like a fruit, just like she offered the counselor.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy just lowers his lowers the knife and points it at us.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm the oldest, I'm standing in front.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at that point, my mom just gave everything she had, and the guy just snatches the money, goes down the stairwell, and I remember like hearing his squeakers, you know, squeaking, his sneakers squeaking as he's going down the stairs, and I'm thinking, I hope he falls, dies, and stuff like that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: We we we wait a few minutes and then the mom finally says, Let's go home.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember it was that day that I knew I was gonna be a New York City cop.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know how.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was a small kid.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: You I never saw another Chinese cop.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Even though, you know, uh I I lived right on the outskirts of Chinatown.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And but I knew I guess I was 11, 5th, 6th grade, that I was gonna become a cop one day.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I guess I was so focused, like there was no plan B.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was like I was gonna be a cop, you know?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I waited until I was 20 and a half and I joined police academy.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you grew up on the outskirts of Chinatown, and I'm sure you were in Chinatown quite a bit, and you're surrounded by the gangs.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: How did you avoid them?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's the thing.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was unavoidable because in the 70s, 80s, even into the 90s, every major street in Chinatown was controlled by a gang.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: For example, my first job was at Baskin Robbins.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was on it's no longer there, but it was on the corner of Mott and Pell.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're familiar with that area, those streets are very narrow, especially Pell Street.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a gauntlet.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: The bend between Knell, uh I'm sorry, Pell and Doyer.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was one call once called the Bloody Angle, because more people have been killed there, supposedly, than any other intersection in the US.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was during the Tongue Wars, and back then it was the uh the hip sync, the on learn, people fighting over the opium dens and uh gambling, and but it was so narrow that you could hide around the corner and basically surprise your victims and stuff like that.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And even later on, I remember witnessing a shooting right at that location.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: But uh because it was so narrow, sometimes when to go to work, I would have to walk on to Pell Street and I would look down the block to see if there were gang members standing around.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because above these restaurants and stores were gambling houses upstairs and in the basement, so they were there for protection, but sometimes they basically it was like a gauntlet.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if I saw like gang members hanging around Pell Street, I would circle around the Mott Street, and then Mott Street was controlled by the ghost shadows, but it was a little wider, so you could like we, you know, and that's how it was.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Every store paid protection.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you didn't pay protection, they break your windows, they put toothpicks, jam your locks, and use crazy glue, and and and or intimidate your workers and stuff like that.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you grew up knowing about that stuff because you're part of the community.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: What what years were you active with the NYPD?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I entered the academy in 86, graduated in 87, and uh at that time, so it now I learned that less than 1% of the NYPD was uh Asian.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the class of 86, July of 86, um, 2,200 people.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of the biggest classes at the time.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think you came in in 87, I think you guys were still big classes.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were making up for the years where no one was being hired, the city was in the fiscal crisis and stuff like that.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um so out of that, 22,2,200 people, 23 of us were Asian.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a big thing.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: The Chinese papers uh had articles about it, biggest class Asians ever.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I was interviewed in the police academy, not in the police academy, at graduation.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so where do you think they would send three of the 23 Asian cops after they graduate from the police academy?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I would think Chinatown, but I don't think that's your story.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, uh I got sent to the 3-0 in Harlem, so that was NSU 5.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I don't know who was more shocked because I don't think there was ever an Asian cop in China uh in Harlem in the 3-0.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And now all of a sudden they see three Chinese cops walking a beat, you know, in Harlem, you know.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I I remember one guy coming up to us and saying, are you guys really real cops?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, wear full uniform and stuff like that, but you never saw a Chinese cop, no?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we did that for a while, which you know, we we learned a lot.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You go to a busy house, and uh, I'm glad in a way, you know, because I I don't I don't think you have any hooks, you know.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a chief son or you know somebody or politicians, you're not gonna start your career in Harlem and stuff like that.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be Midtown South or one of the easier commands, or if you lived in Long Island, you'd be in Queen somewhere.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have no hooks, it's luck of the draw, it's wherever they send you, you know.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, in 1986, was the 3-0 precinct of Washington Drugs?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we spent most of the time in the 3-0 and the 3-4 in Washington Heights.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember I I don't know if you got that feeling.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was so proud, number one, that I made as a police officer, you know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my parents weren't exactly that proud because they came from Hong Kong and the police department in Hong Kong was kind of corrupt.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there's Cantonese saying, good sons don't become cops.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And while I was going to the academy, I told him I was going to be a bus driver.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because back then in 86, we only had to wear a light blue shirt and regular pants, blue pants.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like I think later on you had a patch and stuff like that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So mom goes, What are you doing?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm gonna be a bus driver.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she was very unhappy, number one, because I dropped out of college.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I remember her saying to me, if I knew you were gonna be a bus driver, maybe I wouldn't have immigrated from Hong Kong.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the worst thing was my my second brother also became a New York City cop a few years later, 1990, three and a half, four years later.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then so my mom tells my youngest brother, you're not going to school in New York City, you're going somewhere else.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't want her third son to also be a cop, you know.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't such a good thing to be a uh police officer.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, but you you learned a lot in those commands.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember like the first time I uh we're going to to the Washington Heights riots uh in '87, and uh being in the police van, and you know that do you know that scene from Apocalypse Now where the Helicopter's coming?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: They played the song by Wagner.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is where my Chinglish is gonna come out because I can't pronounce the word.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: But the name of the song is Ride of the It's hard for me to pronounce you know, Chinglish.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: But uh like I could hear that set that song as we're going in the van and the caravan, and I was like, ooh, it was one of my proudest moments.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I made it, I'm a New York City cop, I'm gonna make a difference, you know.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I don't know if any everybody feels the same way, but I was proud to be a cop.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, me too.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And Mike, after your NSU, they send you to Chinatown, the fifth precinct.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Chinese immigrants tend to keep to themselves.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: They rarely call the police.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: As a Chinese cop, how did the the community perceive you?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the thing, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Again, less than 1%, but uh now the three of us, now we're we're in Chinatown.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is where we grew up and stuff on the outskirts, even though outskirts, but we worked there, went to school there.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was a student counselor later on in one of the local schools.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So so it's a little different.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so number one thing is there's there's a language barrier.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of break that a little.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, I speak Chinese with a New York accent, and I speak English with a Chinese accent.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes they would say, What you say?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, and I I would talk slow, and you know, I came when I was five, but my parents spoke Chinese at home, so like you you picked up a little, and uh so you overcome one barrier.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing was like you know, you know that these gang members out there, they're preying on the community, and it wasn't so much the hardest part was trying to get somebody to make a complaint.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they're extorting me, they're robbing me, uh, they're assaulting me.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and it took a long time to build that trust.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you we took it one step at a time.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you go visit a store, how can I help you?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Guys bring my balls because there was there's a woman that owned a newspaper stand on Bowery and Hester.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh she she told she tells me, you know, I I I reported to the police uh a couple of times.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a guy, he comes every day and he steals my newspapers.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the police, they never take a report, they don't do anything, you know.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What I told her, what time does he normally come?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, and I staked it out.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the second day, second day, I finally caught this guy, and guys at the precinct, they go, Oh, there goes Mike Loud.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: What what great collar you got?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: You caught a guy stealing newspapers.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, because that woman, she had that complaint.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it might be nothing to us, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: But for her, there's this one guy.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you people know, you sell newspaper, you make seven cents.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: But when they steal all your newspapers, you lost that total amount, you know.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So for for her, it was like, and this guy does it every single day.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And back then it was it wasn't like you lock a guy up, he's out in a couple hours.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: He went through the central bike and stuff like that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that guy never went and stole another newspaper from that woman.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now I have somebody that trusts police that that next time something happens, she's gonna call me.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna let me know.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you build it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: You you let people know that you're there for them.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and it took time because when I mentioned everybody was paying extortion, and everybody doesn't know that, hey, you don't have to pay.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to the police and they're gonna arrest the people that's doing it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what it took.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Every time we arrested guys, more complaints would come in because get around.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it got around.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: He owns a restaurant, he doesn't have to pay anymore, and and so it got around.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it became easier and easier through the years, you know.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Mike, I heard stories of Chinese immigrants reluctant to trust banks and then keeping thousands of dollars in the modest apartment.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever go on a burglary call where someone lost their life savings or a large amount of cash?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and it was kind of hard to explain to people.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I was taking a report and the boss comes and he goes, you know, how could how could they have that much money?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, look at this apartment, you know, the shit, whatever, you know.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I had you had I had to explain to them, you know, number one, uh they come from some countries where there's corruption everywhere.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: My parents, my mom's on my mom's side, she was born in China, and her father was actually owned several businesses, but when the communists took over, they lost everything.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they didn't trust the government and banks and stuff like that.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so they hit it, mattresses, whatever.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to explain that it's a cultural thing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And even though they they didn't make a lot of money, uh the Chinese are great savers.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in fact, I think there was an article that mentioned like per capita, like Chinatown had like the most number of banks.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: For the people that, you know, as years go on, they become more Americanized and they trust the banks more and stuff like that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: But there's still that the older generation where again they came from China, they they lost everything, and they had to start from anew.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And now that that's part of the process.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine in today's age, going on a burglary call in Chinatown where a woman says that she lost$50,000 with Comstat?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: They would shave a couple of zeros off that amount just not to have the numbers go through the roof.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I mean, I'm sure that's happened.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm retired 16 years, but 17 now.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you you know, I think Comstat, you mentioned Comstat, I think initially I it's the right process, but the way it was used later on, you know, guys played with the numbers and and stuff like that, and it was used to embarrass people.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then I, you know, Comstat spread to Chocstat.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the worst thing I don't know at one point, one time there was graffiti stat.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was a pre-commanding officer of the fifth precinct, this is years later, you know, I get called up to graffiti stat, and they show me pictures in Chinatown where there's graffiti on the building.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, well, Inspector Lau, what are you gonna do about that?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's graffiti.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it gets carried too far.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think original concept, guys sharing information, the squats, you know, different commands, you know, talking about this guy's doing this over here.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where should we put our resources and stuff like that?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was a good idea, but it gets like, you know, I guess overused.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's the correct term.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that isn't yeah, no, that's well said.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: It did.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was overused and they they kept the microscope cat if the microscope kept getting smaller and smaller, and they lost the big picture.
• 21:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, I I love being a cop, you know, so and again, like uh you feel like you were making a difference, you know.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, guys, you know, i again in the beginning people weren't willing to come forward, but as time went on, more and more complaints.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we started making like weekly arrests for extortion, for stuff like that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there's there was an advantage of being Chinese in that community.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: The another great advantage is, you know, I make uh anti-crime like a few years later and drove around taxi cabs.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could get out, I could follow people for that weren't Asian, that didn't know me as a cop for hours.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like we would follow like people, uh groups.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: We knew they were gonna do a person actually because you know, the way they're looking at people.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if my partner wasn't Asian, I get out of the car and and the other team members, but I would find them for hours until they finally hit and then then we we we would just go in.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that was an advantage most of the time, but sometimes it was a disadvantage.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you one job, there was a so I was working with a this great guy, Anthony Scala, and we're in the anti-crime and we're driving a uh taxicab and a job comes over, female being assaulted somewhere on Broadway, one of the buildings.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we're racing there and it's an Asian female, all distraught, she comes, comes out and she goes, you know, this guy tried to rape me in the elevator.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we throw in the back of the car and we're circling around and we put over the description, male Hispanic.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember whether she told us originally whether he had a gun or not, but but he had a gun.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we call him not more than three blocks and by Cortland Alley, I don't know if you're familiar with Chontown, it's like it's more deserted, White Street around that area.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, that's the guy.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So Anthony's driving and he posed right in front we jump on the car and the guy pulls out a gun when he sees me.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a split second I have my gun on him drop it, drop it, and he drops it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then we we tackle him and we cuff him and I go I go to why the fuck you pull a gun on a cop he goes no no no I didn't think you were a cop I would never do that on a cop.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you were the girl's sist brother and that that was the thing like I could get away with working anti-crime because people didn't know you were cop.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And again there were so few Asian cops but then it was a disadvantage because they you didn't look like a cop I so I have another story similar to that where the Ravenite club yeah I was going to ask you that the Chinatown the the fifth precinct also covers Mulberry Street which was mob central all the restaurants and stuff including the Ravenite John Gotti's headquarters yeah go for it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so uh my first boss in anti-crime real old timer and he had a million great lines so the San Janeiro feast was called a feast of saint extortion you know that that was his thing and uh none of the favorite line he he taught me a lot a thousand attaboys doesn't equal one oh shit because it was one time I came back with a gun collar it was another 15 minutes the tour just started and we came back with a gun collar and I'm like all proud boss what we got he goes Mike well actually he didn't call me Mike he called me loud you know you you you didn't get called your first name until like you were there for years you know so you always loud Lau?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: A thousand attaboys doesn't equal one oh shit you know that that don't mean nothing you know but he said it in a nice way and and you learn later on that's really true.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it don't matter what you did I don't care if you got a rack of meadows and stuff like that if you have that oh shit moment you're worried because I think we mentioned before it wasn't like the bosses you know they didn't back you up as much you know as they think you know as you would think they would but uh so this one time I digress I'm sorry no you're fine so we we get now we had I had a new sergeant the sergeant got promoted another great guy came in John Rinhouse and uh one of the sector cars gets a hit on the plate reader going up Mowberry Street right little LA Mulberry Street and like a block away from the Raven night they get a hit on a Mercedes so they put over the air any crime units on the air my boss goes over he go they tell us where the cars sit you know 16 it was 16?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was 16 yeah came back 16 Mercedes and stuff like that so we go yeah we'll we'll go sit on it you guys resume patrol we'll go sit on it you know so we we sit on like a block and a half away and uh not a block I'm I'm sorry like a you know half a block away and we're we're watching it we're in a cab I'm a Chinese guy no one's I get out of the cab nobody freaking thinks I'm a cop so we sit on a while and people start coming out of the Raven night right John Gotti comes out and I'm going to the boss man that's man get in the car get in the car bada bing bada boom you know get in the car and these guys when they walk in Chinatown I I shouldn't say China a little Italy right then you never saw them walking alone it was always like an entourage one two three guys right and when they recognize you they give you the nod they know who you are you know who they are right and um but he goes past the Mercedes doesn't get in right so a few minutes later his brother comes out Peter Gotti same thing another entourage I I think that's his name right it's been 40 years it's same thing another entourage we're going get it get it get it get it doesn't get in so finally another 10 15 minutes later this other guy comes out and he's like a you a guy from the Sopranos right he's in a full jogging outfit but you know taking a look at him he's never jogged in his whole life you know so we now we lost the big guys right we're saying is this guy gonna get in so bada bing bada boom he walks to the car gets in and and I jump in the car and we speed up and we block him in and I jump out of the car please don't move and he goes and then he looks to the side he sees my sergeant who's a big tall white guy and he goes my God thank God I thought it was going to be a hit this motherfucker who ordered the egg rope so I'll never forget so but that case later on it didn't go anywhere.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: The complaint uh didn't press charges.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: What was that failure to cancel or something?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Unauthorized use.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: He probably extored it from somebody and then they thought better of reporting and stolen yeah it was something like that regardless look it never went anywhere.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so you know you're talking to the guy you know afterwards right now he's all calmed down he's not being hit by a Chinese gangster and stuff like that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I go, what what do you do, man?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, I'm just the cleaner and later on years later you learn that the FBI had wiretaps.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if he was really the cleaner but if he had done a better job he would have found those wiretaps you know the bugs in the Ravenite and the apartment upstairs you know well it's possible you stopped the caretaker of the Ravenite his name was Norman DuPont that was him so I didn't want to mention his name because the case never went he's doing time he he he killed two people.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay he's in jail for the rest of his life you can mention his name yeah oh yeah that's you that's why I didn't mention him no that's fine that's that's when you stopped yes that's the caretaker of the Ravenite yeah no bullshit the guy go thought it was like a Chinese hit like man I even thought that name was like a f fictitious no no no that's him yeah he goes yeah he no because he goes hey I said yo what you know Dupont like that name like you never die right right right but he he's one of the guys oh yeah oh no he was in yeah so uh but but that's just one of the stories that's a bro do you have any other stories from the Ravenite not from the Ravenite because you know the how thing was we always knew there was always like a Conhead truck or Verizon truck guy was making movies on Mulberry Street.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah that that's the thing like and they know who uh like who you were you know so but that was my one story after that they put me in gang asian gang intelligence in the fifth precinct so now my focus is on the Asian gangs that that were plaguing Chinatown.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well your name came up when I interviewed Mike Moore he was a retired NYPD detective but he was a gang member Chinese gang member and he he had the utmost respect for you he said you were relentless he said that and that that you would go to funerals and take photographs and and the the gang members were terrified of you I don't know if they were terrified but they hated me you you know and I would do that because for me like again growing up right now I my parents have been preyed upon by everybody you know assaulted my dad came home one day he was all bandaged up some drunk had taken a bottle and cracked him over the head robbed two three times my mom robbed twice so every initiity had robbed my parents this is like the land of opportunity for for bad people and and now being Chinese and the Chinese are praying on their own I couldn't even walk in Chinatown as a kid and I kind of didn't want that to happen.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I wanted I got married young I got married when I was 23.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want my kids to have to be afraid of walking Chinatown so I took it almost as a mission.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that was two things I was always my whole career I was looking for the guy that robbed my mom and he probably died because he was probably a junkie he smelled like crap and you didn't know what that smell was until like later on you become a cop you go to central booking and you do prison escort or the bullpen funky smell like I can tell any yeah you know I know I know you know it's hard to explain for guys that weren't on the job but it's that funky smell you know there's two smells and then the second smell is a a DOA where the the the process of a human body decaying you'll never forget that smell and and unfortunately as cops you you smell that too much you know but that was like my mission you know and then I had other people that were in fact some guys were cops and they tell me Mike you know you know you know why why are you messing with the gang so much you know that they're gonna get you and I said city of New York that's my shield we're we're cops if you're afraid you're in the wrong mind but there's guys like that on the job again the vast majority of guys I work with greatest guys but then you work with some guys why'd you become a cop and other guys and no regardless of rank right they couldn't find Hammond or Delhi but you're a detective the old timer again my first sergeant he goes yeah that that mot that guy you know he he couldn't get laid in the press house it was guys like that but now it's like years later wait you're a first grade detective right dude when I knew you on patrol you just like you started the tour you took all the newspapers you know back then they used to drop newspapers at the station house and you could tell like the real active cops they never took newspaper but like the guys that were as active they take the daily news the post and newsday and during that tour unless they were called to a run they just read the newspaper.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: They would go park someplace quiet.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yes the coffee cup would go up on the dash but again a lot of guys greatest guys but uh I remember but then you had some guys one guy gave me an overtime slip 10 hours and 67 minutes and I said detective wait how how to do 10 hours and 67 minutes he goes central it was like a skit from like who's on first he goes oh central booking is really crowded it was all backed up boss I said no but it's 67 minutes and he goes and he gave me a blank look and finally I just couldn't take it I said get detective go copy his overtime slip and you had guys like that so but but the majority guys best guys and the funniest guys I've ever met yeah yeah yeah there was one guy and everybody's you know fishing stories if you told this guy that you went fishing the week before he caught like two you caught like two big ones that's nothing I was dead you know three weeks before and I caught like three dozen and it was like this big you know guys you know all these characters that you can even make up like it if you wrote a novel and you've wrote written a lot of novels like you can have all these characters in it.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can't make these guys up there's this guy his nickname was horse and because I don't know if I can even say it but he he was endowed so he would walk around the locker room and we go dude I don't want to see that you know number one I'm Asian and but I don't want to see that so but he got the nickname the horse you know lots of great guys this guy named Carlos Nunes the best driver I've ever met and I know you're gonna make fun of me that you're Asian what do you know you you know but this guy could drive backwards better than I could drive forwards.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know just amazing guys you know what did I ask you about because you were such an expert with the Chinese gangs that you were on them so much that you actually got into a gun battle with with with one of them okay so that goes with that Asian story stereotype right all right so me and another guy great guy his name was Lance Hope he ended up doing 15 years NYPD dressing out going to the DEA ages out in the DEA goes to special mechanics and he just retired uh this year wow so three careers in law enforcement but uh back then we were rookies so we had I guess it was 89 June of 89 a few weeks before July 4th we're sitting in a restaurant on the Bowery and you hear what appears to be gunshots but you it's I was a cop for close to 24 years but even now right when you hear those shots you think it's fireworks initially right you know there's certain distinctions but you can't really tell until you know you investigate.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we both run outside the restaurant and we see all these flang dragons gang members running around I chased the fattest guy that was running and I was able to catch him Lance who's more fit he thinks he's Jeremy Lind uh but he's he's a great basketball player uh my buddy Lance and uh he's able to chase this guy further but he catches up to him across the street Confucius Plaza so I catch my guy I I only run 30 40 feet and I catch my guy because he's fat I don't find a gun and I see Lance has gotten his guy across the street so I bring my guy and I take him across the street I'm gonna do a more complete search so now we have both our guys in the driveway of Confucius Plaza we have them lying down one of the where's the fuck where's the gun where's the gun doing a complete search but I happen you know I I look up and I see a Chinese kid walking in the middle of the power power is two-way traffic three lanes on each side but he's like Moses you know he's in the middle street but in his hand he's got a freaking gun I go Lance so we we get up and we have the shield on chain you know what buffs uh even off duty we're still wearing it so take it out and I go police you know and he goes pow pow pow pow and for a second like what the f I said police and uh then I I fired back carried uh back then was just 38 so I had my chief five shots and he I got I think he had a chief or but it was revolvers you know 89 and your first thing is now he's firing me how come I'm not shot and the second thing now it's pissing me off I'm firing back and he's not falling but he he fires boom boom boom boom boom then he just turns around and he starts running and for a slight second I said oh I'm gonna shoot him but I don't I might I probably would have missed anyway he's running but right at that time a sanitation sedan one of those sanitation specs pulls up and we jump in we go get that guy and in the back we're going last you hit you hit and we're looking at each other like not believing that none of us hit but we circled the the block the guy's gone so now you know we hear the lights we hear the sirens and stuff top cars are coming we get out of guy's car and we start walking back toward bar we we explain to the first sector you know what happened and we hear on his radio that a male sh was male shot just walked into Beekman downtown hospital.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we high-five each other oh we got the mother you know we got the guy you know we're not you know it's impossible that we miss we score at 90s in the range there's no way we missed so we jump in the back and we go to the hospital and we go to the ER that's not the guy you know and and and it turned out it was like a 59 year old guy that he was just a bystander so now that's not the guy so now there's a bystander uh that's hit we we go back to the scene and they can't find the guy we can't they can't find the guy and they don't find the gun the next day I don't know if they I might have gotten this wrong I thought it was like a daytime search you're supposed to do a second second search in the morning right I think that's a procedure but I don't know if they it was during that search or a pedestrian just saw the gun on Division Street which is right around the corner and they recovered the firearm but the bullet that hit the bystander had shattered in his drawer.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we everybody had 38 they couldn't tell which bullet it was so you know right after shooting you always put on it's not like you go back to work the next day they put you on an administrative leave and and then you come back to work and now like all the jokes are around right so you know there was like a stereotype the stereotype is that Asians can't drive right DWO I don't know how many times I heard that joke and now it's SWO shooting while oriental what happens when two Chinese cops and the Chinese gangsters in a get get involved in a shootout A, no one gets shot B, the bystander gets shot, you know that that was like the answer.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: They you know that so there's a lot of ribbing and stuff like that.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: But years later when I I worked on a task force uh doing Rico against the flying dragons that guy ended up getting uh pleading to the the charge and if you google like my name it they show up 33 flying dragons indicted uh for racketeering including uh tempted murder on uh police officer Michael Lau you know but it was stuff like that you know like I loved being a cop you know you like and it it's hard to explain to guys that had a lot you know that that weren't active but I really felt you were making every bad guy I put away was one less guy that was gonna harm my parents you know people around me the community and stuff like that and you you know it and I understand you know the job's not on the level and and we get shit on and stuff like that but if you just put it where hey you we're the only line between the really bad guys and the people that they just want to make a living.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: These immigrants that come over the undocum undocumented I don't I didn't care.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're here to make a living.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand if you're an immigrant and you come here and you prey on your own people man you should do your 15, 20 years and send you back to wherever you came from.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the majority the vast majority people they're just coming here better future for the kids, for themselves and I remember as a young cop and this almost killed me.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not killed me but it it made me just realize how how how short life can be or how important we are so there was a detective Danny Wright and um I I think I at that time I only had like two years on the job and uh he goes Mike uh I need you uh I gotta make a family notification and he shows me a photo of a a young Chinese girl and uh and uh he goes she was found un unconscious in front of a building and she OD'd and we now I I need you to translate for me we're gonna make a family notification you know to to to to to her family so we drive drive there and I'm knocking on the door and small Chinese woman opens the door and you you you could tell she was worried right you know two cops you know showing up one guy in uniform like you know I had two years on spanking new the other guy detective he's he's he's in like corduroy suit like he was like a Columbo more disheveled Columbo but it was gonna be bad but in my mind it's gonna be the worst that it could happen ever happen.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember walking to the apartment and it's like it brings me back you know 10 eleven years ago that was my apartment you know tiny apartment but on her wall she had like all these pictures and uh like the first pictures you know you could tell was probably from China or whoever you know lot family gatherings lots of people and stuff like that.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then later on it's just three people her the daughter and you know the guy I assume to be the husband and um and you you see all these pictures in the wall and in my mind I'm thinking like the last picture is gonna be that picture in d Danny's pocket, you know of her you know so um so Danny tells me to translate.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm translating, we're here, we wanna show you a picture And Danny takes out the picture and um she she looks at it and she lets out like a wail, this cry and you knew like everything was gone, you know.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember like uh almost now I I started getting emotional.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I was I had a lot of DOAs, you know, rookie, you're assigned to every DOA.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: But this was like this was almost like me.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um so Danny goes, Mike, tell her we gotta take her to the medical exam, the morgue now.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how to say medical examiner in Chinese, so I just said, we're gonna take you to see your daughter.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's what like really made me feel like, hey, you're here for a reason.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're here to like, you know, try to make a difference, you know.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: So so we get in the car and we're going to the medical examiner, and in your mind you you it plays tricks.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're still locks away, but I could all even I I like in my mind, I smelled like I I could smell the medical examiner's office, even though it it's impossible, but your mind's like playing tricks on you.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, and and it back then in the 80s and 90s, somebody died.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: You have one detective, 2200 people got killed a year in New York, you know, and and a couple of days later, Danny goes, Yeah, Mike, I closed the case, accidental overdose.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Danny, will you ever find like where she came from or what happened?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, No, Mike, you know, and and that's what you know, life was like like these her parents gave up everything.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you're successful, you don't give up, you don't go to another country, you don't speak the language and stuff like that, and start over again.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you do that for your kid.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was so I all after all these years, I can't remember what anybody looks like.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Danny, I worked with him a long time after.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know what he looks, like the mother, the daughter, but I would never forget that screen, you know.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: When she recognized her own daughter.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's stuff like that.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: That I I think it for the guys that came on for the right reasons, you use that too, when you're shit on, whatever, when unfair things happen.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're there for a reason.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're not there for these other guys and stuff like that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, so I originally wanted to be a detective, right?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't want to be a boss.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, after doing seven years, uh you can run me now.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was I getting I I got CCRBs.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: I also had uh uh like allegations, and you would apply for these different commands, uh, this different units, and they do a CPI check and then they go, Mike, we'd like to pick you up, but we gotta wait until that stuff clears up.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until I made lieutenant that this one guy, Jimmy Maloney, he goes, Mike, explain to me.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: How come you got this allegation?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I explained retaliation.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I did this, they sit there.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I arrested like a ghoshout, they go, Why are you picking us?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: You must be on the pay of the flying dragons.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you go best with them?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: You arrest the flying dragon.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they say vice versa.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes I testified on cases where I wasn't an arresting officer, but I had to testify that that guy that was being tried for shooting or whatever was a gang member.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then there'll be like an allegation that he's on the take pay or somebody else.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, but this one guy took a chance on me, and I I did close 24 years.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: I got one discretionary promotion.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: And guys don't know.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: NYPD, I think most of your viewers are law enforcement.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they know, right?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Civil service, doesn't matter if you're a captain, lieutenant, whatever, doesn't mean you were active.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: It meant I had three lucky Saturdays, you know.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: I picked C when I wasn't sure of the answer, and happened to be C.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember just my career, again, comes back to this old first sergeant.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Mike, if you have to write somebody up, unless it's something where you have to, right?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: They lost all the firearms, they whatever.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have to write somebody up, that might that means you gave up on them.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can warn, you can explain to them, you can teach them, you can discipline them in other ways.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't hurt the guy's career, but just undo the whatever.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was my mentality.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think my whatever years, I I think I wrote like one or two CDs ever, you know.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but but again, I love the job, and the best time I had at the job was when I was uh uh just a white shield police officer, you know.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what when you're a cop or a detective, you have all this freedom.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you really the only person you gotta answer to usually is your your your immediate supervisor.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: As you go up the ladder, you're answering to the community, your answer into this one, you're answering to that one, there's phone calls coming in from one police plaza.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: You had a really great story, Mike.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: You you rose to the rank of deputy inspector.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: You told me this story the other day, and it it makes such sense that you were in a strategy meeting where the NYPD press was planning how they were going to handle a large protest between, and I hope I pronounced this correctly, Tibetan, Tibet Tibet Tibetan protesters and Chinese protesters.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can you kind of go into that?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I won't go into detail as I did talking to you off camera.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to name names, but yeah, yeah.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: But the the the the game plan was to have Chinese officers infiltrate the Tibetan protesters to make sure they didn't do anything crazy because the was it the pre it was China was gonna get their first Olympics and the Tibetan protesters were were gonna hold the biggest demonstration ever.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Every week there were for years they were holding protests, but because they wanted to embarrass China and bring more spotlight uh uh into the the issue, they were gonna do this massive protest.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: But NYPD's strategy was to infiltrate the Tibetans by having Chinese.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Chinese are not Tibetans, two different languages.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I I mentioned to you prior to that when I was in plain clothes and I was scratching uh like the officers on on details, the Tibetan protesters would point to me and say, Chinese spy, Chinese spy, thinking that like you know, I'm I'm part of China, you know.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: So in this room, even though I'm a deputy inspector, I'm like nobody.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's more stars than you know the night sky, you know, and uh and finally I say, sir, with all due respect, Chinese, we don't speak Tibetan, we wouldn't be able to overhear conversations and stuff like that.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they would pick out Tibetan easily, you know, right away that you know, all the cops.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And even the room full of people, you could hear a pin drop, you know, because nobody says anything for a second.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And finally another chief, he goes, he he says it more, I I guess, politically correct.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Oh yeah, we shouldn't do that because those hundred Chinese cops we're bringing in, they're not anti-crime plain clothes qualified, you know.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that was sort of like the out, you know.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember like leaving the meeting, one star chief goes to me, he goes, Mike, you're not you're never going to that unit where this guy that devised the plan was going to, which I hope one day to go to that division.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the thing.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like in NYPD, again, there were like bosses, the smartest guys I've ever met.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there were guys where do you have a picture of the commissioner naked and you're blackmailing him?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you become, you know, a chief?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and and again, a lot of these guys, these bosses, because they're a chief or whatever, when they speak, you look around the room, and I'm not exaggerating, you have guys, I I used to call them bobbleheads because all they do is like this.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and then every once in a while, yeah, you hear a whisper.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Great idea, chief.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a whisper, but they want the chief to hear that it came from him.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then when somebody says something different and the chief contradicts what he just said like a few minutes earlier, he decides, oh no, that's not a good idea.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the same Bible Hilton agreeing again just two minutes ago.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this idea.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: That was the NYPD.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: And again, not all.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's some guys.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: I worked for this guy, Steve Guinano, greatest storyteller.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, for the Bronx.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh same thing, uh, the gun collars he would tell me.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Off duty, too.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and uh it's crazy.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: But and then again, you know, so I I love working for guys like that.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Guy Jimmy Malloy, funniest guy, too.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Every time we meet somebody, he goes, he whispered, Mike, I could take him.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, as a joke.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then one time we we um there was this federal agent that I'm introducing him to, and he built like a linebacker and stuff like that.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Mike, I might need your help on this one.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the agent hears, he goes, What's what's he mean by that?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I told the agent, I'll explain to you later.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: All these characters, but great guys that you were motivated to work for them.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you wanted to do your best because you knew those were the guys that uh that would back you up.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not the guys, oh, I'll back you up, you're 100% correct.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, I need you to back me up when I didn't intentionally do it, but I made a mistake.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I need you to back me up to to say, oh yeah, that's an aberration.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: But uh like a million stories like like that.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I I just wanted to throw a couple of things at you because you're the first guy I've ever had on that's worked down there.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Canal Street's an artery that cuts through Chinatown.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Where Gucci handbags and fake Rolexes are sold.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Were you able, were you ever able to arrest those guys and get into one of those stash locations?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, uh so many times.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, but I don't know if people realize that.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: It takes more than just arrests.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we would uh send uh uh officers, they buy a handbag, we uh we have the ghosts follow them, and we get the location.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: We do uh a search warrant, and uh so by then I'm I'm the commanding officer.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I told my Intel sergeant, great officer Leslie Chan, and I I remind her of the scene from uh Apocalypse Now how they played the music.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: So every time before we do, you know, we do our caravan, hospital car, attack vehicle, and everything, she would play over the system, the song.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know because I ended up seeing that on the wire.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I swear, did somebody steal that from me?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or so I don't know if that they did it first or I did it first.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: But she would do that for me, you know?
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we would do a search one in the place, and we would recover so much property that we would have to get like a truck to pick it up.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is that the DA's office never really, over a certain amount, it's by the the value of the goods, whether it's a C felony, E felony, or misdemeanor.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was always like felony, but in the end, we would see the case, this orderly conduct drop through, or misdemeanor.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then you couldn't get these guys to do jail time.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So this is years later, I'm in Vice, Vice Enforcement, and it started as a trademark counterfeiting case, but we go up on a wire on it, and we learn that these guys not only doing trademark counterfeiting, but they're doing burglaries, they're doing home invasions.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you on this particular case how it worked.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when we bring in, when these guys bring in um trademark counterfeit merchandise, it's like a group of people, you know, it's you, Vic, me, a couple other guys, and we poo our resources so that it if it gets seized, you don't lose everything.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody puts in the money in the pot.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: But once the stuff gets safely delivered here, now it's it's given out, distributed, depending on how much you put in and stuff like that.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: They start hitting each other.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: They start hitting each other's warehouses, they start hitting each other's homes.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we're hitting this on the wire.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: Holy cow.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh No honor among thieves.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: But uh so now we we hear what uh they're doing a home invasion on this uh house in Queens, right?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: So now I know the guy that they're targeting, he's part of the crew.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing, but they think he has uh a lot of money in the house.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna they're playing a home invasion.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I go to detective, and again, I'm still a buff.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not too many deputy inspectors will go with the detective.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: But but uh so I go to the detective, I I tell my boss who's uh chief uh conroy, and I said, we gotta warn this guy.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: This guy might have kids, we can't have these people doing it.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because on one hand, you kind of want to set up where you hopefully you intercept the team that's gonna do it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or rep, right.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can't take that risk because hey, if they don't hit the house, they might hit uh where he's working, or he's driving the work, his kids might be home, and stuff like that.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm you know, we decide we're gonna warn this guy and uh and stuff like that.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I go to the detective, and it's in Queens, and you walk into the house, you come into my house, you cheat, you see stuff from IKEA, you see cheap stuff that I had to build, and I got blisters all over here doing it.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: I walk into this guy's house, and everything is the top notch, everything's marble, everything's the best there is.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: And on the side, I I'm looking at the mail because uh I think it's like the maid opened the letters in and stuff like that.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: I see on the side there's letters from Medicaid and stuff like that.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: So not only is he like a multi, multi-millionaire, whatever, somebody over there is collecting Medicaid and stuff like that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to tell this freaking guy that's gonna be like Right, you gotta warn him.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta warn him.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I I explained to him, we have information, you're the target of a home invasion.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: You may you have to change your routine, you have to install additional security measures, you have to do what you you have to do.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how I got the information.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he like, if you tell me it's something like that, I'd be worried.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: But this freaking guy, he you know, he gives me like a smirk, you know, like like he's gonna take care of it, you know.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: So but I I did my job, right?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that was just one of the uh crimes.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the next day, uh detective gets a uh call from a CI who is not even in his country.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's in China, and he tells the detective, and he the detective is the handling.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Oh, why the F and Michael Lau go to this guy's house?
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this guy was reaching out to other people to like find out who was doing it and to take care of it on his own.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Also, in this case, we now pick up a second robbery that's putting, but this time, we only hear partial numbers.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: We can't make out uh the last digit, the street, the whatever, but it's somewhere.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're we're playing it like 50 times, but we can't.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't know.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, and back then I I guess they tried computers, but it's not like the computers now.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: Probably now you can query and they give you 10 different, but back then they didn't.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the next day we go in and we're running all the burglaries and robberies, boom, in Queens.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: So shoot out there, and uh again, these are all people, part of the same entourage, same group that was bringing all this merchandise.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it turned out four black guys, they have it on camera, try to boomerang their way into this guy's house, but he was home.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but they could couldn't get in.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: He calls the cops, and the cops come.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at that time I'm there.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's a call from they go, Who are you?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Inspect Deputy Inspector Lau, Vice Enforcement, we have a case gone.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was two guys from IAB, you know, internal affairs.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: It turned out, I think, I don't know all the details, but possibly one of those four guys that were doing it was one of their guys.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: But he decided that he was gonna do a home invasion instead.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, and you're saying, why, why, how come four black guys doing so basically what happens is the guys that hang out of me, my my crew, I know the guys hang out with you, so you have to contract out to outside contractors to do a hint, and then uh they get a percentage of it.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's how, even those Asian organized crimes, sometimes other participants are part of those crews.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: They'll subcontract.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um What I want to ask you is because you were in Chinatown in in the mid-80s, did you have any interactions with Uncle Benny?
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but not to the level where I could do anything about it.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Could you explain all this as who he was and and Yeah.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: So how it works in Chinatown, you have associations called Tongs, and you have uh the gangs themselves, right?
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: The gangs are based most most of the people in the gangs are younger people.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: They start anywhere from 12, 14 to the mid-20s, early 30s.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the associations are benevolent, they were originally formed as benevolent associations, and which basically meant that, you know, when the Chinese came, you you wanted to open a business or whatever, you can't go to Chase and get a loan.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: But you would go to an association and they would lend you a small sum of money, and you would be able to open your business.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, there was this mistrust of the police, the government, and stuff like that.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they settled disputes in the community and stuff like that, right?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you had numerous associations.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: But after a while, there's always one element that uses the association and for criminal means.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: So now somebody in the association decides, hey, let's open a gambling house, let's have a share in prostitution, and now it becomes not all the members in the association are bad, but a certain element in that association.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, the online association, they become affiliated with the Gosh House.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're running a gambling house, you need people to do security at the gambling house.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: You need people to to do collect money from the loan sharks after the money's lent down, and for other uh purposes, right?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: Other members in the so also the criminal element, at some point, if you really want to make big money, you're gonna engage in narcotics.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately, that's where the big money is.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then below that, now these the people you're you're recruiting to do the all all these negative, these criminal activities, the younger members, they start forming the gangs.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of these associates, again, the the more strategic, they uh they decide they they play it.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, the Ghost Shadows, they had more than one crew.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: They had a Mott Street crew, they had a Bayert Street crew, and so if these kids get out of line, I can use one against the other.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's how how I always uh saw it.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the police department, there was a commissioner that uh he made a commanding officer of a citywide unit.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: The executive officer usually was somebody that didn't get along with the commanding officer.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like that divide and conquer type of deal.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what what it was.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the the gang members, you know, respected the guys in the tongue, you know, because one day they hope to be at that level, right?
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's where the big money was, you know, not doing the street enforcement.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the violence came mostly from the street enforcement.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: From you gotta remember, these are kids.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: You give a 14-year-old kid a gun, they're gonna do things they're gonna use it, you know, under your directions, and sometimes not under your direction.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: You look at me wrong.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fighting over a girl, I'm at some club, and shots fired all over the place.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the distinction.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when you mentioned Uncle Benny, Uncle Benny was a guy that rose through the ranks of the tongue.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: He went to prison for murder.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: He after that he came out, he also went to prison for bribery, for bribing the police.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if people know that, but but he at that time uh that I knew him, he had that that level was beyond me.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's not there doing the the street stuff, he's not involved in extortion, the drugs, or anything like that.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's above that.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: But he was considered the unofficial mayor of Chinatown.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: So Hong Kong, I mentioned earlier, had one of the most corrupt police forces.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: But when Hong Kong decided to try to clean up the police department, all the people that had amassed millions and millions of dollars had to flee.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: So one guy that came to New York was a guy that was originally a Hong Kong police sergeant.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you do when you come to New York?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: You have all this money to gain the gangs, the uh the law enforcement side.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: He tries to establish his own uh crew and the rumor was Uncle Benny didn't go for it in a series of shootings.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: What year was this, do you know?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: This uh let's see, that that was 80 right before I came out Golden Star bar shooting, I think was eighty-five.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: So eleven people shot in this one bar and to send a message, and you're not gonna do that.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, he was trying to unite two different gangs to form his own gang.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: This guy that came from Hong Kong.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was a second shooting where two people were murdered in the travel agency that this guy owned.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much money going around, but then he finally got the message and he got out of New York.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that was the level that Uncle Benny was at.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: He was above that.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when he he had when he finally passed away, he died from cancer, he had the biggest funeral perception.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: I remember in China.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a big deal.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was in the newspaper and everything.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because as even John Gotti, right, they they did a lot of bad things, but they also went around and they threw money here, they threw money there, and now you become like a benevolent person.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: But how did you get there?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: That type of deal.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where well that's the sixty-four thousand dollar question, right.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: How many bodies, how many people extorted, how many people and it wasn't just there's a there's a lot of people in Chinatown.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: Chinatown is like an onion.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I think I probably read that somewhere.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many layers.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's people that represent the community, they really don't.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I guess for sometimes it's dangerous for a guy like me that grew up and hey, you this guy comes forward and he's like a leader in the community.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I know how you got your money.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: There were this much heroin found in your restaurant that was uptown, but you just got somebody else to take the rack for it.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: But now you're like this legitimate person.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh to an outsider that gets thrown in Chinatown as a commanding officer, they may not know.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an advantage and a disadvantage, you know.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, Mike, can you can you tell us about the late fifth precinct police officer Michael Granis?
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I came on before him, but at some point we we met each other as police officers.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well uh so I was in the fifth from 87 to 94.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we could look it up and find out when he was there uh initially.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when I came back in 2006 as commanding officer, he was more Chinese than me.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think his Chinese was better than mine because he really, really absorbed the culture and everything.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: He could probably use chopsticks better than me.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you it was amazing.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I worked with this other guy, great cop, Sean Russell, where he worked in Chinatown for 20 years, hated Chinese food, you know.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: So but some guys, uh great cop, but Mike really took everything in.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, again, he was a male white police officer, but he was more Chinese than I ever could be.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: The way I found out about him was the uh for a recruitment drive, the NYPD did a commercial using him in the commercial about, you know, how he had immersed himself in Asian culture.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, whatever happened to that guy.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, you know, I maybe have him a guest for his show.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, he has since passed.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: He he's in that poster I have.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: Carlos Nunes, he he came up with this poster for every cop that ever worked in the fifth precinct that died after 9-11 of 9-11 causes, you know, including a couple that died that day when they they they had become firemen.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: But uh Mike is on that poster.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, great guy.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's a great story, you know?
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it's it's just interesting.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just fascinated by it, and unfortunately, it's passed for like a lot of people we know from 9-11 illness or that were there on that day.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, Mike, you retired a few years.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: What's next for Mike Lau?
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, about two and a half years ago, I I started writing stories uh about you know my experiences NYPD.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've written about 50 of them.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: For the last two years, uh I was reading one of these stories every month in a bookstore in Chinatown.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I don't know.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm hoping one day that I can get these stories published.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote 400 pages of a novel, uh, and I wrote a short screen screenplay, but we'll see.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully one day somebody will take an interest in it.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, maybe that that's interesting stuff, and they'll do something about it.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Mike, I want to thank you so much for spending your time with us today.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love talking to guys that understand.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: You talk to certain guys, and they just say, oh, you're just a buff.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_01: What the hell?
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was a buff.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was a pleasure.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Mike.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, I'd like to thank everyone for tuning in, especially my listeners in Bonneville, Ontario, Regina, Saskatchewan, Newcumberland, Pennsylvania, Stone Mountain, Georgia, and Albany, New York.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you worked in law enforcement, had an interesting criminal background, please drop me a note on Twitter or Instagram at VicFroy50.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you're interested in NYPD stories, please uh check out my Amazon author page where you'll find my series of behind the scenes NYPD books.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just type in my name, VicFeroy Like the Call, where you can preview all my books for free.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again, everyone, and I'll see you next week.