Latest / Coffee and Bible Time Podcast / When Life Breaks Your Heart, God Makes Something Beautiful | Rebecca St. James & Cubbie Fink

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When Life Breaks Your Heart, God Makes Something Beautiful | Rebecca St. James & Cubbie Fink · Coffee and Bible Time Podcast

• 1:01
  Ellen: At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 1:03
  Ellen: Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living.
• 1:07
  Ellen: Each week we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk.
• 1:18
  Ellen: We are so glad you have joined us.
• 1:21
  Ellen: Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast, where our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living.
• 1:32
  Ellen: This is Ellen, your host.
• 1:35
  Ellen: When you were young, did you believe in the happily ever after fairy tale?
• 1:39
  Ellen: But then real life happened cycles of good times and hard seasons.
• 1:45
  Ellen: In those valleys we face deep losses, betrayal and heartbreak.
• 1:49
  Ellen: Sometimes it feels like there's no way to find meaning in life at all.
• 1:54
  Ellen: We can lose sight of who we really are, struggle in our relationships and feel lost in the chaos.
• 2:00
  Ellen: Are struggle in our relationships and feel lost in the chaos.
• 2:01
  Ellen: Well, our guests today, Rebecca St James and Cubbie Fink, offer the secret to enduring tough times.
• 2:09
  Ellen: Through their journey, they share how their faith has anchored them through life's most challenging moments.
• 2:16
  Ellen: In this episode, they talk openly about their pain, triumphs and how they found hope and healing through their unwavering commitment to God.
• 2:28
  Ellen: Their story reminds us that, no matter how hard life gets, there is always a way back to peace through faith.
• 2:35
  Ellen: To find that peace, we need to embrace God's redemptive power, especially in our hardest moments.
• 2:42
  Ellen: We must separate our identity from what we do or what others think of us.
• 2:47
  Ellen: We also need to prioritize our relationships, especially in marriage and family, and trust that God will guide us through.
• 2:54
  Ellen: Lastly, we must stay committed to our faith even when things feel uncertain, and lean into God's grace at all times.
• 3:04
  Ellen: Well, Rebecca is among the most defining artists in Christian music history.
• 3:09
  Ellen: She is a Grammy and Dove award-winning Christian music legend with more than 2 million albums sold.
• 3:17
  Ellen: She is also an accomplished actress and the author of more than a dozen books.
• 3:22
  Ellen: Her album Kingdom Come and a parenting podcast with focus on the family are recent additions to her dynamic career.
• 3:30
  Ellen: The 2024 hit movie Unsung Hero features Rebecca and her family's story along with her brother's Grammy Award winning duo for King and Country.
• 3:41
  Ellen: Cubbie is a founding member of the multi-platinum Grammy nominated indie pop band Foster the People.
• 3:49
  Ellen: He was the executive producer on Rebecca's most recent album and is also a successful film producer and director.
• 3:57
  Ellen: His most recent producing endeavor, unsung Hero, received the GMA Dove Award for Feature Film of the Year.
• 4:05
  Ellen: Rebecca and Cubbie have three children and live in Nashville, Tennessee.
• 4:11
  Ellen: Please welcome Rebecca and Cubbie.
• 4:17
  Ellen: Hello, hello.
• 4:19
  Ellen: Thank you for having us and Cubbie Hello hello, thank you for having us.
• 4:23
  Ellen: Yeah, great to be here.
• 4:25
  Ellen: Yes, it's such a joy to meet you both, and I just loved your book so much because, to the outside world I think sometimes we think successful people like yourselves live these perfect, struggle-free lives, and you know you can't relate to the hills and valleys of regular Christians, and so I just want to start by thanking you for giving us a glimpse into your real life and and showing how you have gotten through those, with God's grace so thank you.
• 4:57
  Rebecca: It's really encouraging to hear, because that was really our intent was that we just be real about all of it, and I think Cubbie has said often that our pain is kind of, in a lot of ways, what connects all of us, like we all were promised, you know, in this not easy for anyone, but I think when we see God's faithfulness through the pain and over and over and over again, that that's a testimony that can encourage all of us in the body.
• 5:32
  Ellen: So I'm so glad to hear that feedback.
• 5:34
  Ellen: Thank you for sharing.
• 5:35
  Ellen: Absolutely Well, Rebecca.
• 5:38
  Ellen: Fans of your award winning film Unsung Hero are familiar with your childhood and the start of your music career.
• 5:47
  Ellen: Tell us how your book Lasting Ever sort of takes off from there.
• 5:57
  Rebecca: Yeah, well, I share a little bit in the book and Kabi does too about you know his youth and childhood and it's really quite amazing actually to have written the book together and then edit it together and see Unsung Hero.
• 6:21
  Rebecca: We lived by faith for a couple of years as a family.
• 6:23
  Rebecca: You know my family of origin and saw miracles and you know groceries on the doorstep and furniture dropped at our house and checks in the mail kind of randomly, and just miracle after miracle and that I feel like for me when a couple years later I went full time in music at 16, I really had a testimony to share and it's funny because somebody says it in one of the characters says it in the movie.
• 6:50
  Rebecca: You know a record label executive at an audition like you know what does a 16 year old have to say about God or life, or you know pain or any of it.
• 7:00
  Rebecca: And I know God had given me a testimony, he'd given me something to say about prayer and about a relationship with him, because I had walked through that, you know, in those couple of years prior to beginning in music.
• 7:12
  Rebecca: So really for the next you know decades of my life, I had that story to share and then more um and all around the world, and so, uh, yeah, it was just really sweet to see again God just use that that time in our lives for his good and for his glory.
• 7:31
  Rebecca: And then to see last year when that film came out with Lionsgate um, see so many families, lives encouraged to pray and apply it to their life.
• 7:39
  Rebecca: That was just such a sweet blessing as well.
• 7:42
  Ellen: Absolutely, and that was going to be the thing that I mentioned as well.
• 7:46
  Ellen: Like as I was reading that in the story of your family, it did encourage me to pray, like we have this incredible gift right at our fingertips every day, anytime.
• 7:59
  Ellen: Yes, you know, he doesn't close down you know certain times of the day Totally.
• 8:05
  Ellen: It's such a beautiful thing and it was a very powerful reminder for myself, just like the power of prayer and your parents.
• 8:13
  Ellen: I love the story, too, about your parents and their willingness to sort of let God, your family, in on that truth.
• 8:23
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 8:25
  Rebecca: Yeah, they were vulnerable.
• 8:27
  Ellen: Incredible.
• 8:28
  Rebecca: Because I do think sometimes as parents you know, we have three kids, ages 11, six and four and I think sometimes we can think, oh, we need to like shelter and protect them from some of the realities of life and obviously it needs to be age appropriate.
• 8:42
  Rebecca: You know we can't kind of dump on our three-year-old all the challenges, but I think my parents were honest with us that we needed to pray and we had, you know, specific needs that needed to be met in order to even survive here in the US, and that the answer was prayer.
• 9:00
  Rebecca: And I'm so thankful now as a parent, and I just see so much strength in that that they were so vulnerable and willing to like be very humble in front of us kids and then because of that, we were able to see like God meeting us so beautifully and so that now we go to our, we go to God with our kids and ask for prayer from them you know about certain things and and then see God answer and talk about that.
• 9:25
  Rebecca: So it's, it's definitely there's a legacy in our little family now with that.
• 9:30
  Ellen: That's so beautiful.
• 9:31
  Ellen: Well, tell us a little bit about your own story of you two together.
• 9:36
  Ellen: How did you guys meet?
• 9:39
  Cubbie: Yeah, we excuse me, definitely go into pretty extensive details in the book, but kind of a quick snapshot.
• 9:47
  Cubbie: So we were both living in LA at the time.
• 9:50
  Cubbie: I was there working both in the film industry but also doing some music, and Rebecca had moved from Nashville out to LA to pursue acting and she had done a couple of films and was super excited to be in the city doing that.
• 10:05
  Cubbie: But she, through her roommate, got introduced to a philosophy group that I was actually a part of as well.
• 10:11
  Cubbie: I had been attending for a couple of years at that point.
• 10:14
  Cubbie: But it was a really cool group.
• 10:15
  Cubbie: A guy that opened his home and invited young people in just to discuss philosophy, but his heart was to lay a foundation for theology through philosophy.
• 10:24
  Cubbie: So a lot of non-Christians, a lot of Christians, a lot of spirited conversations, A lot of people came to the Lord through that group and there was a handful of marriages that developed out of that group.
• 10:36
  Cubbie: But the interesting thing is when she started attending, I was working on a TV show and pulling crazy hours and I hadn't been in several months to the group and in my absence I hear my friends and roommates start talking about this girl.
• 10:50
  Cubbie: That has definitely piqued everybody's interest and I just keep hearing the name Rebecca being thrown around and she's so cool and she's the real deal, super authentic.
• 11:01
  Cubbie: Just everything that I heard was very positive and eventually heard that it was very positive and and eventually heard that it was Rebecca St James that they were talking about, which was interesting because I was familiar with her name but I was not necessarily familiar with her music, which, forever, I absolutely should have been.
• 11:18
  Cubbie: I grew up in a Christian home, grew up listening to a ton of Christian music and I think there was some form of divine protection in me not not listening to it, because we actually had her records in my, in our house growing up and, for whatever reason, just never put them in the player.
• 11:32
  Cubbie: And but you know, looking at it from this perspective, I really do believe God protected that first encounter the first time we met and was ultimately at a at a wrap party for the TV show that I was working on.
• 11:44
  Cubbie: That she was invited to and she came in the front door and we kind of somehow locked eyes from across the room and it was one of those just magical movie moments where time seemed to slow down and the music faded and we just had this kind of glorious moment where there was just so much in that first glance and we made our way across the room and spent the rest of the evening chatting until the party kind of died down around us and we said our goodbyes and we both knew, going home that night to our respective houses, that that was a very special encounter and ultimately here we are.
• 12:19
  Ellen: I loved reading about you know the story of your background of meeting and then also your proposal was hallmark worthy.
• 12:31
  Rebecca: Right yeah in the snow in Nashville and candles and Christmas tree and presents and a total surprise for me.
• 12:39
  Rebecca: Like he pulled off just this amazing surprise.
• 12:42
  Rebecca: I had absolutely no idea.
• 12:43
  Rebecca: So yeah, it was very magical, very, very layered, very hallmark for sure.
• 12:48
  Rebecca: I mean it never snows at Christmas in Nashville, so just it was pretty amazing.
• 12:53
  Ellen: Very sweet.
• 12:54
  Ellen: It sounds like it.
• 12:55
  Ellen: When I was reading that part of the story, I was actually in my living room and had a fire going and I was like oh this is the best.
• 13:03
  Rebecca: That's awesome.
• 13:04
  Ellen: So thankful.
• 13:06
  Ellen: Yeah, so you were both involved in music and ministry before you met in your early 30s.
• 13:13
  Ellen: I'd love to go back, cubby, if you could tell us a little bit about your years as a missionary in South Africa and then how you later helped found your band, foster the People.
• 13:27
  Cubbie: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:30
  Cubbie: So I was kind of back end of high school very focused on music and filmmaking.
• 13:40
  Cubbie: I kind of made a hard shift midway through high school from the sports career path to kind of making the hard shift into the arts and had found my mom's camera and just started taking a lot of pictures and fell in love with the way the world looked through a viewfinder and that translator very quickly led to making short films and I started playing guitar about the same time and so it's kind of very much on this arts path through film and music.
• 14:06
  Cubbie: And after graduating high school I had kind of set my sights on LA and spent that first year after high school volunteering in the youth group and working in a few different ministries and then also kind of developing the band that I was in, all with the hope of, you know, going up to LA and chasing those things.
• 14:26
  Cubbie: And God kind of intervened in my plans and took me on a bit of a detour that I wasn't necessarily anticipating and it was definitely miraculous how he got me there but ultimately led me to South Africa on what I thought was going to be a two week trip and ultimately led to about two years on the mission field in South Africa and became, you know just, the most pivotal, foundational season of my life.
• 14:52
  Cubbie: So much of who?
• 14:52
  Cubbie: I am today as a result of that season and just saw God do unbelievable miracles over and over and over and just saw revival break out and young people just falling in love with Jesus.
• 15:04
  Cubbie: Revival breakout and young people just falling in love with Jesus and I really thought I was going to spend the rest of my life there.
• 15:09
  Cubbie: But God made it equally clear it was time to come home when it was time and opened some doors for me to go basically pretty seamlessly into a university in Southern California and I was able to study communication with an emphasis on film production and thought I was going to go back to the mission field to make documentaries.
• 15:29
  Cubbie: And God kind of changed those plans midway through college and kind of fell in love with scripted narrative and storytelling through film.
• 15:38
  Cubbie: And so the sites turned back to LA and graduated college, moved to LA and some of the first people I met were musicians.
• 15:46
  Cubbie: And actually one of the first people I met was the lead singer of the band Foster the People and he and I became friends and were friends for a couple of years.
• 15:55
  Cubbie: And then I was working primarily in the film industry and then the writer strike of 2007 happened and the whole industry shut down.
• 16:02
  Cubbie: So I started focusing a bit a bit more on music and, uh, and Mark and I had talked about getting together for for years at that point and finally we're just like, hey, we just need to make this happen.
• 16:13
  Cubbie: Put a date on the calendar.
• 16:14
  Cubbie: We got together in a small rehearsal space in Hollywood and he introduced me to a drummer and the three of us just jam for a couple of hours and and it was again one of those moments where we just, you know, by the end of the first song we were looking at each other saying, wow, we have something very special here.
• 16:31
  Cubbie: So it became our, our passion project that we devoted every spare hour and moment to, aside from all of our respective jobs and the different things we had going on.
• 16:39
  Cubbie: But it eventually blew up blew up and took us around the world for five, six, seven years and was a pretty wild ride for sure.
• 16:59
  Ellen: It sure sounded like it will encourage any parent who reads this book that if we let go and let God work in our children's lives, look what he can do and just like some of the things that you wrote about, like I don't know how I ended up on this youth worship three-day trip right, but somehow God got you there and I think we try to control.
• 17:27
  Ellen: You know there's so much outward pressure with our children.
• 17:30
  Ellen: We try to control everything that's going to happen and I just thought it was so beautiful to see that there was.
• 17:36
  Ellen: You must have had a powerful praying family for you.
• 17:42
  Cubbie: Yeah, they were, and I really credit them for being so willing to trust God in the process and allow me to really search.
• 17:51
  Cubbie: And I think, as parents now, that's a horrifying thought just to open our hands and say, okay, god, we entrust this child to you, which my parents really did very well, and they also knew that I was genuinely seeking truth.
• 18:04
  Cubbie: If they would have seen me rebelling for the sake of rebelling, I think they would have been a bit more hands-on, but they knew I was on a journey and truly seeking truth, and truth only exists in one place, it only exists in the reality of Jesus Christ and the foundation of the scriptures.
• 18:23
  Cubbie: So that journey took me to a lot of different places and ultimately led to a lot of depression, but it was in that place of depression that the Holy spirit was was able to meet me and and radically changed my life.
• 18:34
  Cubbie: So, yeah, the fact that my parents allowed me to take take that journey, ultimately, was what fortified my faith.
• 18:41
  Cubbie: It was what gave my faith as substance and a reality, as opposed to just them forcing it down my throat and saying you have to believe this, right, right, yeah, that was incredible.
• 18:52
  Ellen: Well, rebecca, by the time you met Cubby, you had done your own touring of the world with your own incredible music.
• 19:00
  Ellen: Bless it be the name it be the name of.
• 19:12
  Ellen: You just have impacted so many people.
• 19:14
  Ellen: How did you feel about your career in?
• 19:16
  Rebecca: ministry.
• 19:17
  Rebecca: At that point in time, then I mean I was just probably.
• 19:20
  Rebecca: I mean, for a lot, of, a lot of my music years, I think music to me was always a place of surrendering to God's will, with the foundational idea of I want to be married and have a family.
• 19:35
  Rebecca: That being the main dream was very much like Lord.
• 19:42
  Rebecca: Whenever the time is right and you want to introduce me to this, this, you know, prince of mine, please bring him on, because I just longed for that season of fulfillment, as you know, as a wife and mom.
• 19:57
  Rebecca: So, yeah, I mean I think it was.
• 19:59
  Rebecca: It was an easy thing to to think about moving into a season that was very different to that nearly 20 years of music.
• 20:07
  Rebecca: I was very excited for that and so when we met and I had a hunch pretty quickly that this might be the one for me and I hoped he would be, and I started really falling in love, I mean it was just very exciting to me to kind of join him and become a new kind of entity as husband and wife and, you know, get engaged and then move into marriage and then travel the world together and then retire from music.
• 20:33
  Rebecca: I mean that was exciting to me.
• 20:35
  Rebecca: It wasn't.
• 20:35
  Rebecca: It wasn't um giving up something for a you know, something less exciting.
• 20:44
  Rebecca: It was thrilling.
• 20:45
  Rebecca: It was the dream of my life.
• 20:46
  Rebecca: So, I'm so thankful and I still pinch myself that I have a husband and three kids Like I don't think I'll ever take it for granted, because I longed for it for so long.
• 20:55
  Rebecca: I was 33 when we got married and just so overjoyed that he blessed me with this family.
• 21:01
  Ellen: It's amazing Living my dreams right now.
• 21:03
  Ellen: Yeah, I was very, very touched by that.
• 21:07
  Ellen: That you know.
• 21:09
  Ellen: You said that right from the get.
• 21:10
  Ellen: Go at the beginning of the book, like that was one of your dreams and I just yeah yeah, I think that's so beautiful and I love also because I have two daughters and a son, and my oldest daughter's married and my other daughter is engaged and between the two of them they also experience some of the things that you did, that you describe in your book like you've met this wonderful man, but there's so much going on and trusting God in that process, yes, yes, I think that what you've written there will also help perhaps women that are going through that time in their life as well, because it's not.
• 22:03
  Ellen: I mean, it is a wonderful thing to get engaged and be all that excited, but, yes, so many things are changing in your life too.
• 22:11
  Rebecca: And there's some fear and I think I wrote about that in the book, while we were engaged, fear that I had to move through of, like how do I know that?
• 22:18
  Rebecca: I know that.
• 22:18
  Rebecca: I know that this is.
• 22:19
  Rebecca: God's man for me and really seeking him for confirmation, and he gave that to me.
• 22:39
  Rebecca: Am I enough?
• 22:40
  Rebecca: Am I contributing in the way that you want me to in this world, now that I don't have all these different hats that I'm, you know, wearing, and it's simplifying, like you know am I still a blessing to the people in my life if I'm not producing in the way that I did before?
• 22:52
  Rebecca: And I think you know moms that have worked outside the home or had some kind of vocation before having kids and then are full-time moms I think a lot of moms, you know, kind of deal with that of like what my identity or my vocation has shifted.
• 23:09
  Rebecca: And, lord, you know, do you see what I'm doing and do you, I want to feel your pleasure as I, you know, do you see what I'm doing and do you, do you, I want to feel your pleasure as I, as I, you know, devote myself to, to being a wife and a mom, and so that was definitely something that I worked through too is just, you know, kind of recognizing that I don't have to perform or tick all these boxes to be a blessing to people.
• 23:36
  Rebecca: You know, I think I had bought into a performance mentality that I think God really wanted me to just rest in my identity as a daughter of the King and that was really valuable too early on in marriage and parenting.
• 23:49
  Ellen: Yeah, and another thing that you said I love that you respect counseling and that they can help.
• 23:58
  Ellen: I know that it's been such a tremendous help in my life, but I think that was one of the things that you mentioned right.
• 24:03
  Rebecca: Huge.
• 24:04
  Ellen: Yes, a counselor had told you that.
• 24:06
  Rebecca: Yeah, that I could sit in a room and like just with somebody and not say or do anything for them and still be a blessing.
• 24:13
  Rebecca: Just the present, like the gift of presence that God has given me as his daughter, is a blessing to somebody, and his spirit in me, and so it's not about performing or being on or, you know, giving in this very kind of tangible way that I had probably bought into, but just who he has made me to be is a blessing as well, and that was a really good thing to embrace.
• 24:40
  Ellen: Absolutely Well, Cubbie.
• 24:43
  Ellen: You had been married just a couple of years when your time with your band Foster the People suddenly ended.
• 24:50
  Ellen: Tell us how that impacted you and how you dealt with those emotions.
• 24:59
  Cubbie: Definitely being in a band is tough.
• 25:04
  Cubbie: I think the bands that can make it for decades are definitely a rarity.
• 25:12
  Cubbie: I mean it's especially at that season of your life where you're, you know, and, and just the fact that you're operating I mean your, your vocation is in one of the more vulnerable places of expression.
• 25:24
  Cubbie: I mean it's the arts are incredibly vulnerable and you've got a lot of guys with very, you know strong opinions and and their vulnerability of the way they're expressing themselves is tied up in what we do and our vocation and the thing that's keeping us, you know, on the road and and a roof over our head and all this thing.
• 25:44
  Cubbie: So it's just it's a complicated, tricky world to navigate and then you add any kind of fame or notoriety on top of that and it just exponentially makes those problems even harder.
• 25:55
  Cubbie: And and I thoroughly believe that we were not designed to be famous I don't think God designed us to be famous.
• 26:02
  Cubbie: In fact, I know that we are not designed to receive the praise that he is only able to receive.
• 26:11
  Cubbie: And when we start receiving that praise and believing that we deserve that praise, it absolutely warps and twists our soul and it gives the enemy and the ability to really take us down some pretty dark avenues and I saw that happening around me and it's just easy pitfalls to fall into in that world and for me the band was an expression of I mean really a vehicle to bring truth to the world.
• 26:35
  Cubbie: And for me the band was an expression of I mean really a vehicle to bring truth to the world.
• 26:40
  Cubbie: That's what I was passionate about from the beginning with the band and saw God really open some pretty incredible doors for that band to do what it did, and I always saw it as that.
• 26:51
  Cubbie: It was always a mission for me.
• 26:52
  Cubbie: It was always the purpose behind the music, not necessarily the music, and really the band was founded on a very common ground with the, the thing that I was most intentional about and excited about, and it soon became just playing music for the sake of playing music, which was harder and harder for me to just you know one, buy into but also give all of my time to, because we were touring like crazy.
• 27:32
  Cubbie: And then we entered parenthood and we had our first daughter and I spent the first 11 months of our daughter's life on the road, which was incredibly challenging, and it just became harder and harder for me to justify continuing to give all of that energy, time, everything, to something that I was feeling was lacking the ultimate purpose that that it really needed to have, and so I really started to disengage and and the guys felt that and ultimately led to a decision for me to leave the band and which was painful because it was, it was something that ultimately would have happened on, you know, potentially on my terms, but in in the way it played out it was, it was something that was kind of out of my hands and so it was.
• 28:20
  Cubbie: It was definitely a shocking reality that we found ourselves in, um, feeling like this was something that was going to be part of our lives for a lot longer, and it was cut short and threw us into a lot of unknown and and ultimately threw us into a lot of unknown and ultimately threw us into what we deem in the book as our winter season, and it was a three, four year period of us really struggling to keep our head above water mentally and emotionally, and simultaneously we were trying to grow our family and Rebecca was kind of experiencing secondary infertility and we walked through a couple of miscarriages, which was incredibly painful.
• 28:59
  Cubbie: My mom was dying of a horrible disease.
• 29:02
  Cubbie: It just felt like everywhere we looked was just kind of blow after blow after blow.
• 29:06
  Cubbie: And it was in that season that I realized that I was dealing with stuff.
• 29:14
  Cubbie: I mean, that season in and of itself was incredibly challenging, but there were things deeper in my heart and spirit that were starting to fester and come to the surface that I realized needed to be dealt with.
• 29:26
  Cubbie: And it was in that season that I admitted that I needed help to deal with those things and started the process of seeing a counselor and kind of getting to the root of seeing a counselor and kind of getting to the root of that trauma that was buried and ultimately led to incredible healing and freedom on the other side.
• 29:44
  Cubbie: But it was really the pain of that season that was the instigating factor to start the journey of healing which is really beautiful, and we've just seen that.
• 29:55
  Cubbie: I mean reflecting on our lives.
• 29:56
  Cubbie: We've seen that over and over and over.
• 29:58
  Cubbie: We've just found so much purpose in the pain, the pain as hard as it is to walk through.
• 30:05
  Cubbie: We see God using that pain for incredible purpose and incredible growth in us because the reality is we generally don't grow when things are good us, because the reality is we generally don't grow when things are good, when life is good, it's easy to get complacent and you have no real reason to grow because you have nothing to overcome.
• 30:22
  Cubbie: But it's facing the challenges that we're forced to rise up and rely on the strength of the Holy Spirit to allow him to shape us into the people he wants us to be.
• 30:32
  Cubbie: But it's the pain that instigates that.
• 30:36
  Ellen: Right, right, right, which is so incredibly difficult.
• 30:41
  Ellen: As I was reading that part of your story, I was thinking about you, Rebecca, as well, just knowing that my daughter has a nine-month old at home right now and you Cubbie leaving your child to go out on the road, and how you described how hard that was.
• 31:01
  Ellen: But, Rebecca, from your perspective, in that season that Cubbie went through, tell us, just as a wife and a mom, what you experienced and just any encouragement that you might have for someone who perhaps is trying to help their husband through a difficult season.
• 31:24
  Rebecca: Mm-hmm, I think I really had to come to a place of letting him kind of wrestle through with some of these really hard things without taking it on.
• 31:34
  Rebecca: I think my natural like personality is I see pain happening in somebody that I love, I just want to help, like and fix and like solve and like what can we do?
• 31:47
  Rebecca: And like you know how do we work this out.
• 31:48
  Rebecca: And I remember when he told me, okay, it's done with the band, walked into our living room.
• 31:53
  Rebecca: I will never forget that moment and and it was immediately like God's got us, we're going to be okay.
• 32:01
  Rebecca: You know, it was like speaking this truth that we knew.
• 32:03
  Rebecca: But then we had to really live that out over the next few years and the vulnerability of that and and for me, you know, I had just kind of entered into my dream life.
• 32:13
  Rebecca: You know, like, um, what did this mean for me too, as a wife and a mom and for provision for us and all of that.
• 32:22
  Rebecca: So there was a lot of questions and a lot of challenges, but I think what God was teaching me was to support him, to love, to kind of be there together with him in the pain, but not try to anxiously solve.
• 32:40
  Rebecca: And I think, as wives and spouses period I think we can often just do that instead of like sitting in the pain with our spouse or sitting in the pain with a friend or a family member and just kind of weeping with those who weep and letting the process be what it is.
• 33:02
  Rebecca: And so I feel like God has been so patient with me because I think I've tried to run ahead of him a lot probably in my life of like, okay, well, now it's going to be this and now it's going to be this.
• 33:08
  Rebecca: And I think he's teaching me, probably in these kind of seasons, to just really trust him and then let Cubby move through these with my support, but not with it making me more anxious, because I think if we as spouses get more anxious and more worried and more stressed out, it actually adds more pressure, right, and when I was doing that it probably did add more pressure.
• 33:35
  Rebecca: But if I just sit back in it, I trust god and trust that that he's like gonna work, he's gonna work it out in cub and that cub has enough of a faith walk to really go to god constantly and consistently, then I can kind of settle into a different level of peace and so I think that in these kind of seasons has been what he's been teaching me, and we come in and out of winter seasons right in our lives, Like God brought us into an amazing spring with two extra children, and I mean just so much new vocationally.
• 34:06
  Rebecca: But we come in and out of those challenging times in our lives.
• 34:09
  Rebecca: It's never that we are finally free of the winter, you know Right.
• 34:13
  Rebecca: So, yeah, it's just trusting God in all those different seasons and that he's, he's going to be good, he's going to redeem it and he's doing um beautiful things in all of those seasons.
• 34:26
  Ellen: Yes, yes, that's very wise, wise advice for sure.
• 34:29
  Ellen: Good Thank you.
• 34:31
  Ellen: Well, um, for those that might be listening out there and kind of just wondering where you guys are at today, tell us about.
• 34:41
  Ellen: You know you have your three children and you're juggling careers and homeschooling.
• 34:47
  Rebecca: Yes, you are up with it.
• 34:49
  Rebecca: She knows what's going on in our lives.
• 34:51
  Rebecca: I'm very impressed.
• 34:53
  Rebecca: As many interviews as you do.
• 34:55
  Rebecca: You know what's happening.
• 34:57
  Rebecca: That's impressive.
• 34:59
  Ellen: Tell us, though, just a little bit about you know what this season is looking like and maybe how you're just pouring into your children.
• 35:10
  Ellen: I think you know one of the biggest things people always want encouragement about is just, you know, raising up godly children.
• 35:19
  Ellen: And what does that look like in your house?
• 35:24
  Cubbie: Yeah, it's something that was very much a conscious decision in stepping back into kind of more full-time ministry, especially for Rebecca, because she was, as she mentioned, sort of happily unofficially retired as as and living her dream as a wife and mom and and really had no intention of stepping back into ministry or music or any of those things, cause she was, you know, living the dreams of her heart and and it was sort of towards the dreams of her heart and um, and it was sort of towards the tail end of that winter season where God intervened and on in really both of our situations and um, part of the interage, invent, like part of the encounter that Rebecca had with the Holy Spirit, was this sense that he was calling her back into music and into ministry and simultaneously he was speaking to me and kind of giving me new visions and aspirations and direction, which also was stepping back into the world of the arts which I'd kind of been running from for the kind of those years of the winter season, and so we were sort of on this precipice of, okay, we're stepping back into the sort of abnormal life that in a lot of ways, we felt called to because we tried to live a life where we just-.
• 36:48
  Rebecca: Kind of a safer Safer.
• 36:49
  Rebecca: Safer for us smaller, you know, dialed back life, Because when you go from living on the road for 11 months of the year.
• 36:56
  Cubbie: I think there was a big part of us that was just OK.
• 36:58
  Cubbie: We just want.
• 36:59
  Cubbie: We want one bed, we want one dresser, we want one bath like just one place to live and just kind of have a safe home, home life and realizing, you know, saying yes to this call to step back into that was was potentially going to be a lot for our children, and so we we were intentional about, or it was only one child at the time, but ultimately our dream was to have more.
• 37:21
  Cubbie: But we were very intentional in making the decision.
• 37:23
  Cubbie: If we are going to do this, we're doing it as a family.
• 37:26
  Cubbie: It's not going to be you going to do your thing.
• 37:29
  Cubbie: It's not going to be me doing my thing and the kids suffer by having us not around and so making that decision early on.
• 37:39
  Cubbie: We've done everything we can in the careers that we've led for the last several years to include them, and whenever it's at all possible we travel to shows and set as a family.
• 37:54
  Cubbie: And we bring our kids along as much as we can and we make them feel part of the ministry.
• 37:58
  Cubbie: And it's not mommy and daddy have to go do this thing, it's we get to go do this thing together and we've just seen so much just awe and wonder in them being able to experience these things, but also the fact that it comes back to mommy gets to, or we get to do this because mommy sings and we get to do this because mommy sings and daddy, or we get to do this because daddy gets to work on on these film projects and there's there's blessing tied up in it for them getting to live it with us.
• 38:26
  Rebecca: And that's what my mom spoke to me when I was kind of moving back into any of this and kind of wrestling through some of it, some some of the sacrifice I suppose for for me as a mom and kind of wrestling through some of it, some of the sacrifice I suppose for me as a mom and some of the sacrifice potentially for our kids.
• 38:40
  Rebecca: And she said, if you and Cubbie are being faithful to what God has called you to do, there's blessing in that for your children.
• 38:45
  Rebecca: And that kind of just helped me to settle down Like our obedience to God is a blessing for our kids as well.
• 38:52
  Rebecca: And so I've seen that be true and they love it.
• 38:58
  Rebecca: One of them said just recently mommy, I'm so thankful that you sing and she's just putting together that there's joy in the yeses, our yeses to him, and I love that so much.
• 39:12
  Ellen: Oh, that's amazing.
• 39:13
  Ellen: I love that you're kind of, yeah, bringing them in and just it sounds so much just kind of what your family did.
• 39:21
  Ellen: Right, you talked about your brothers being on stage.
• 39:24
  Ellen: You know, yes, everybody was doing something, right?
• 39:27
  Ellen: Yes, so that's that's.
• 39:30
  Rebecca: that's really neat the most profound part, sorry, sorry, just just very quickly.
• 39:38
  Rebecca: Last year, when we were out on the road for this christmas tour, our kids were handing out compassion child packs to, to people you know during our show to invite them into sponsoring children.
• 39:45
  Rebecca: So there's just moments like that where they can really engage or come with me to recording my focus on the family podcast in colorado, or you know, they can really like be part of it on the road and that will, even as we progress more into these kind of things and do speaking engagements together with our book, because it's only really just come out.
• 40:05
  Rebecca: They're part of that too, and so I just love that they're seeing ministry happen, but they're a needed part of the team too.
• 40:11
  Rebecca: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:14
  Ellen: I love that.
• 40:14
  Ellen: Well, as we wrap things up here, what are you hoping that readers will take away from your book?
• 40:24
  Cubbie: And poignantly pressed on my heart, even in the concluding words, of writing the book and kind of setting it down, taking a step back and looking at the whole process, looking at all the words that ended up on the page and the stories that those represented and really just being so profoundly moved on about God's goodness and how good God is, and that really is the hope that people will put this book down and just be blown away at his goodness and just reminded of his goodness, even in the midst of the hardest of times he's so good and being able to see the purpose in that pain and know that he doesn't waste our pain, that he doesn't put us through things for no reason there really is such purpose in all of it and just that he is trustworthy, he is worth fighting for and standing on the truth of his scriptures.
• 41:31
  Cubbie: And I think there's a very easy inclination to just throw away your faith when you're walking through a hard time and kind of blame it on God.
• 41:40
  Cubbie: And it's in those moments where we have the choice to stand on the truth of his word or turn our back on it, and I think the hope is that this book would encourage people to continue to stand on the trustworthiness of God, even in the midst of the hard.
• 41:58
  Rebecca: Yeah, I think that we really, like Cubbie said, hope that they apply this concept of the goodness of God and his faithfulness and that he redeems and he makes things beautiful and that he restores to their own life so that they go okay, we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.
• 42:16
  Rebecca: So I've heard their testimony and I've seen him be faithful there.
• 42:19
  Rebecca: He's going to be faithful in my life too and that they're encouraged to and I feel like Cubbie was saying this to have a lasting, ever kind of relationship with God where they see God's faithfulness and they want to stay true to him.
• 42:34
  Rebecca: And they want to stay true in relationships that they have the courage to stick it out, even when relationships with spouse or family members or friends get difficult, to really press through the hard to the other side.
• 42:46
  Rebecca: You know my mom has often said that resolved conflict leads to intimacy.
• 42:49
  Rebecca: I really believe that, and so it's like pressing through those hard times to the other side and the payoff and the beauty that is there.
• 42:58
  Ellen: Yes, well, there's no doubt in my mind that what you're hoping readers will take away, they most certainly will.
• 43:06
  Ellen: And where can people go to learn more about you guys in the book?
• 43:13
  Rebecca: Uh, they can just really go to my socials.
• 43:16
  Rebecca: They can go to Instagram and search Rebecca St James and find, find me there, and then also on Facebook as well.
• 43:24
  Rebecca: Cubbie's not really on social media, but if you want to find out a little bit about what we're up to together, probably go to my social media.
• 43:30
  Rebecca: That's the.
• 43:30
  Rebecca: That's the place.
• 43:32
  Ellen: Okay, perfect.
• 43:33
  Ellen: Well, before we go, I have to ask you some of our favorite Bible study tool questions that we ask our guests.
• 43:40
  Ellen: So, what Bible is your go-to Bible and what translation is it?
• 43:46
  Rebecca: Uh-huh.
• 43:47
  Rebecca: Well, I have a Bible actually where it's a journaling Bible, that's it.
• 43:53
  Rebecca: When it's a, it's a, it's a journaling bible, that's that's it in when it's actually me with my physical bible, that's what I love.
• 44:02
  Rebecca: I love to be able to kind of journal in the lines on the side of, on the side of it, of the text, and really like even put a date and like god taught me this today and um really be able to look back again at his faithfulness with that.
• 44:14
  Rebecca: So, um, but then I I just go to the bible app on my phone a lot too, and I do love that.
• 44:20
  Rebecca: I mean, we can even be like reading the Bible, seeing it but then hearing it as well.
• 44:25
  Rebecca: I'm really getting into hearing the word being spoken using multiple of my senses.
• 44:32
  Rebecca: This is just a very recent thing for me, but seeing it, hearing it and then journaling, so almost like a three you know, three pronged approach to to the Bible and like wanting to take it in in a different way.
• 44:45
  Rebecca: Right now, on my Bible app, I'm actually using the amplified version a lot because I love how it kind of unpacks um scripture in a little bit of an extra way.
• 44:55
  Rebecca: Um, I can really grasp it.
• 44:57
  Rebecca: So niv and the amplified is where I'm, where I'm sitting right now.
• 45:01
  Rebecca: What about you?
• 45:02
  Cubbie: um, I got a bible fairly early on in my my uh jesus pursuit, which happened about midway through high school.
• 45:12
  Cubbie: Um, I remember somebody saying that the nrsv is the scholar's bible, which you know made me feel like I needed to get that.
• 45:22
  Rebecca: But he graduated with honors in high school and college, so I mean it fits right.
• 45:27
  Cubbie: So I got a hard hardcover nrsv.
• 45:31
  Cubbie: Probably it was probably 2000,.
• 45:35
  Cubbie: Actually maybe like 1999, 98, 99.
• 45:39
  Cubbie: And that has been my Bible ever since, and it's been around the world several times and it's literally being held together by duct tape at this point.
• 45:49
  Cubbie: But there's a lot of memories in that Bible.
• 45:51
  Cubbie: I mean, there's great kind of study tools throughout the Bible and then I've got tons of notes just written all over it and I've got artifacts.
• 46:00
  Cubbie: I've got a porcupine quill that's actually my bookmark that I found on the ground in South Africa.
• 46:05
  Cubbie: So there's a lot of history and memories and it's very sentimental that Bible, but I love it, and even the way it smells.
• 46:13
  Cubbie: I mean it's just I love it.
• 46:15
  Ellen: It sure sounds like it.
• 46:16
  Ellen: Oh, that's amazing.
• 46:18
  Ellen: All right, do you have any favorite journaling supplies or anything you like to use to?
• 46:24
  Ellen: Enhance your Bible study time.
• 46:27
  Rebecca: I've got actually a you know on top of my Bible that has journal space.
• 46:33
  Rebecca: I actually have been using this journal that's called Write the Word and it has a scripture at the top that is kind of set for kind of a whole year.
• 46:46
  Rebecca: You have a different scripture each day and then you look up the scripture and you can write that scripture and then write what God's speaking to you out of that, so you could write about his character or what he calls us to or things like that, or things that are on your heart for today, things that you're grateful for the date, and that has been really, really great that I actively use that quite a lot as well.
• 47:08
  Rebecca: Yeah, so that's a journal that is along with the scriptures for me.
• 47:12
  Rebecca: That is along with the scriptures for me.
• 47:16
  Cubbie: Yeah, something that I've been doing since I mean kind of the beginning of this year is I think Rebecca found it in a book that she was reading but it's sort of a three section, I mean, and it's pretty quick, but it's essentially prayerfully considering the wins of yesterday and journaling about those, jotting down three things that you're grateful for today and then praying through what will make today great and journaling about that.
• 47:42
  Cubbie: So kind of the three, and it doesn't take a long time.
• 47:47
  Cubbie: And I've kind of oscillated in my devotion to journaling over the years.
• 47:51
  Cubbie: There's been seasons, I've been really good about it and mostly not great about journaling, but this is digestible and it's easy to do and you know it's it's something that that is is great because it's it's you're remembering to be grateful, even even in the small things, and it's you're kind of forced to find three things that you were grateful for today.
• 48:11
  Cubbie: And and then, you know, be intentional prayerfully about what is going to make this day a win in the eyes of the Lord.
• 48:19
  Cubbie: So that's been a kind of a cool practice for me.
• 48:21
  Ellen: That is.
• 48:22
  Ellen: That sounds really cool.
• 48:24
  Ellen: I love that.
• 48:25
  Ellen: Okay, Last question what is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?
• 48:34
  Cubbie: I have.
• 48:35
  Cubbie: I don't even know who makes it, it's literally just called Holy Bible and it's very, very bare bones, which I kind of like about it, and because you're not getting blasted by ads and different things, it's literally just the Bible and that's all it is, and so that I'll.
• 48:50
  Cubbie: I'll go to that, you know, early in the morning, before the light comes on, or if it's late at night, so I don't have to turn a light on.
• 48:59
  Cubbie: That's generally the go-to.
• 49:00
  Rebecca: Yeah, I think I have the same one too, right it just yeah, it's the holy bible app you version, you're right yes, I do that's you version two
• 49:10
  Ellen: different bible apps alright, that's so great.
• 49:14
  Ellen: Well, thank you so much for just being with us today, for for opening your hearts, for sharing your incredible story, and we just appreciate you being with us today.
• 49:26
  Rebecca: Thank you for having us and thank you for reading the book too.
• 49:28
  Rebecca: We can tell that you really read so much of it, so thank you, I soaked in it.
• 49:32
  Rebecca: That was a big blessing.
• 49:34
  Rebecca: So thanks for having us.
• 49:35
  Rebecca: We really appreciate it.
• 49:43
  Ellen: You.
• 49:43
  Ellen: That was a big blessing.
• 49:44
  Ellen: So thanks for having us.
• 49:44
  Ellen: We really appreciate it.
• 49:45
  Ellen: You're most welcome and for our listeners, we hope that Rebecca and Cubby's story has encouraged you to embrace the challenges that you're facing with faith and hope.
• 49:49
  Ellen: And no matter where you are in your journey, remember that God is always at work, even in the hardest seasons.
• 49:56
  Ellen: God is always at work even in the hardest seasons, and be sure and pick up a copy of Lasting Ever.
• 50:00
  Ellen: We will have the link available for you in the show notes.
• 50:04
  Ellen: We love you all.
• 50:06
  Ellen: We appreciate you listening.
• 50:07
  Ellen: Have a blessed day.