Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 7 July

Transcript

The Kenny Report | 7 July · The Kenny Report

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Live from the sky New Center.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: This is the Kenny Report.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Welcome to The Kenny Report. I'm Caroline Marcus filling in
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: for Chris Kenny. Coming up tonight, Aaron Patterson found guilty
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: in the mushroom murder trial that's captivated the world's We'll
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: cross live to our reporter at the scene and have
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: analysis from criminal law experts Sam Macedoni. We'll also speak
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: to Israeli Minister Sharon Haskell about Prime Minister Benjamin Nettinier,
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: who's rebuke of our government after those shocking anti Semitic
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: scenes in Melbourne over the weekend, and a canceled Jewish
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: artist who is at the Israeli restaurant and the synagogue
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: that were attacked tells us what she saw firsthand and
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: how the hatred has inspired her latest work. But first,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: there's been a much awaited verdict in the trial of
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson, who has been found guilty of the murder
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: of her former in laws Don and Gail Patterson and
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Gail's sister Heather, and the attempted murder of Heather's husband,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Ian Wilkinson, after she served her relatives beef Wellington laced
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: with death cat mushrooms at her regional Victorian home. In
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: July twenty twenty three, the jurors reached their unanimous verdict
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: after one week of deliberations following an eight week trial.
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  Speaker 3: This is a case that's unsurprisingly generated headlines around the world,
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  Speaker 3: and no doubt Hollywood producers have been watching this trial
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: very closely. It truly is made for movie stuff. Patterson
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  Speaker 3: now faces a maximum twenty years imprisonment, and according to
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: our reporter, she remained motionless as the verdict was handed down,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: even saying see you later to a friend who was
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: there to support her.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sad it.
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  Speaker 3: Is what it is.
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  Speaker 1: I have to talk to her like this. She's a
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: triple murderer.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: The question that still remains, though, is how how could have,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: for all appearances normal small town mother of two, become
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: so consumed with hatred for her estranged husband and his
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: family that she would be driven to first forage for
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  Speaker 3: toxic mushrooms, dehydrate them, and then literally cook up a
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: fabricated excuse to poison her relatives. Mss Patterson told them
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: she had cancer, which is why they'd been invited to
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: the lunch in the first place. Along with her husband, Simon.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: She lied about so much else, that she bought the
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: mushrooms from an Asian grocer, that she didn't own a
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: food dehydrator, that she'd been ill herself after the meal,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: even faking her own symptoms. And then there were the
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: crocodile tears. I'm devastated. I loved them. I can't believe
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: that this has happened, and I'm so I'm sorry. Ultimately, though,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: the juries saw through all those lies, and now she's
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: a convicted triple murderer. The person left to pick up
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: the pieces in all this is Simon Patterson and the
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: couple's children, and the truth about their mushroom murderer mother
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  Speaker 3: will not be easy to swallow. Now, let's go to
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: the disgraceful anti Semitic attacks in Melbourne over the weekend,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: which saw a synagogue set alight with twenty Jewish worshipers inside,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: and a violent assault on an Israeli restaurant in which
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: protesters chanted for the death of Jews. Earlier today, detectives
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: also released this footage of five hooded offenders setting cars
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  Speaker 3: a light and spray painting them with anti Semitic slogans
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  Speaker 3: outside a weapons business in Melbourne with links to Israel.
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  Speaker 3: One thing that's clear about this death cult of a movement,
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: it lacks originality. Death death to the IDF has become
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: the new river to the sea thanks to the Glastonbury Festival,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: where British punk wrap duo Bob Billin debuted their new
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  Speaker 3: hate catchphrase, helpfully live streamed by the BBC.
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  Speaker 4: Stif the IDFF if.
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  Speaker 3: Anti Israel apologists then around the world scramble to defend
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: the chant, claiming no, no, no, no, they were simply
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: calling for the end of the entity of IDF rather
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: than actual death to Jewish soldiers. How quickly that face
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: was exposed when past footage of Bob Billin emerged.
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  Speaker 5: Yes to every single idster out there as an agent
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  Speaker 5: of terror for.
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  Speaker 3: Is so no, that is exactly what Melbourne protesters were
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  Speaker 3: chanting for two when they stormed miss Non restaurant, throwing chairs, food,
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  Speaker 3: shattering a window and stragging real terror into the hearts
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  Speaker 3: of Jewish Australians. When we hear those chants and see
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: yet another attack on a Jewish place of worship, the
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  Speaker 3: mask that these protesters hide behind of just being about
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  Speaker 3: anti Zionism, not anti Semitism, as if the two were
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  Speaker 3: truly indistinguishable in many cases, or distinguishable rather, that mask
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: has well and truly been ripped off. Frankly, it should
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: have been obvious to anyone who saw the scenes outside
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  Speaker 3: the Opera House a day after the October seven attacks,
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  Speaker 3: the worst massacre of Jews since the whole cost Israeli
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Prime Minister Benjamin Natna, who rightly called the attacks in
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  Speaker 3: Melbourne's severe hate crimes that must be uprooted Netanya, who
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: took a dig at the government's failure to adequately confront
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  Speaker 3: this crisis. He said, we demand the Australian government take
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  Speaker 3: all action to deal with the writers to the fullest
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  Speaker 3: extent of the law and prevent similar attacks in future.
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  Speaker 3: So what has the government done in the wake of
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  Speaker 3: all this? Well, Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke rushed to
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  Speaker 3: the scene of the East Melbourne Synagogue where he made
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  Speaker 3: some tough sounding statements.
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  Speaker 6: Arson attacks, the chanting calls for death, other attacks and graffiti,
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  Speaker 6: none of it belonged to Australia, and they were attacks
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  Speaker 6: on Australia.
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  Speaker 3: But it's hard to take too seriously the words of
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  Speaker 3: a minister whose decisions have done so much to whip
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  Speaker 3: up hostility towards Israel reddenly denying visas to an Israeli
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  Speaker 3: minister and an American Israeli advocate, but at least Burke
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  Speaker 3: was there. It took three days for Victorian premierges In
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  Speaker 3: to Alan to even visit the scene, and when she
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  Speaker 3: finally emerged today she announced a new anti hate task
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  Speaker 3: Force to crack down on the jew hatred that spirals
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  Speaker 3: out of control under her watch.
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  Speaker 7: The Anti Hate Task Force will be convened working with
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  Speaker 7: Victoria Police, working with the Jewish community, working with all Victorians.
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  Speaker 7: How we put a stop, put a stop to this
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  Speaker 7: hateful behavior and recognize that hate has no place here
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  Speaker 7: in our state.
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  Speaker 3: It's like trying to force the genie back in the bottle.
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  Speaker 3: Hate has already very much found a home in Victoria,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: as it has here in New South Wales. Jewish artist
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Nina Sinaz rushed to the scene of the miz Non riot.
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  Speaker 3: She writes in her blog, the aftermath looked like a tomatoes,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: cauliflower and eggplants smashed across the pavement, broken tables as
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: shattered glass door. I thought Crystal marcht. I made the
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: same sad observation back in January following the string of
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  Speaker 3: attacks in Sydney. Many have since tried to dismiss as
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: a criminal hoax, as if the impact on the community
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  Speaker 3: was any less real because organized criminals are alleged to
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: have been involved. I don't recognize this country anymore. This
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: isn't the Australia we know and love. So what does
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: it remind you of our very own Crystal Nacht? The
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Night of the Broken Glass where Jewish homes, businesses and
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: synagogues were vandalized and destroyed the year before World War
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  Speaker 3: two erupted. And I'll be speaking to Nina about what
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  Speaker 3: she witnessed Friday night a little later in the show.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Don't miss That. S still on Victoria and the latest
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: News poll has revealed a whopping fifty nine percent of
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  Speaker 3: Victorian's believe the Allen government does not deserve to be
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: re elected. Amid deep dissatisfaction with the premiere. The majority
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: of voters believe it's time to give another party a
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: chance to govern. The problem for the coalition voters simply
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: don't think it should be them. Opposition leader Brad Badden
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: may lead just into Allen forty one to thirty six
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  Speaker 3: percent as preferred leader, but that's where the good news
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: ends for the Liberals. Most voters say the party isn't
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: ready to govern, and given the state elections next year,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the opposition is going to have to start moving if
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: they want to change their minds. The ugly internal war
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: over the treatment of Moirademing by then Liberal leader John
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Persuto clearly caused real damage to the party and the
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: optics over its decision to loan mister Persuto one point
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  Speaker 3: five million dollars to repay his debts, helping him avoid
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: bankruptcy and thus losing his seat wouldn't have helped either,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And now the Liberals are ripping themselves apart again, this
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: time over gender quotas. Leaked WhatsApp texts last week reveals
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: how internally divisive this issue has become. Yet A new
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  Speaker 3: survey by Specter's Strategy finds while almost half of voters
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  Speaker 3: say they support the adoption of quotas, sixty one percent
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  Speaker 3: or more than three and five say having a female
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  Speaker 3: Liberal candidate would make no difference in how they vote.
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  Speaker 3: Only twenty five percent a quarters say they'd be more
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  Speaker 3: likely and in some cases only slightly more likely to
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  Speaker 3: even consider voting for them if they're female. So why
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: does the party insist on castrating itself so to speak,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: over gender quotas, forcing us to endure torturous speculation on
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  Speaker 3: will they or won't they when it's obvious it's never
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  Speaker 3: going to shift real votes. I have spoken to so
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: many political women, liberal and otherwise on air who were
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  Speaker 3: firmly against quotas and the idea of being token women.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Indigenous leader and Liberal Party stallwart Warren Mundine said on
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  Speaker 3: the weekend the Liberals lost in the Sydney Sea of Bradfield,
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  Speaker 3: where Giselle Capterian was pre selected over mister Mundine because
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  Speaker 3: we ran a crap campaign. He also warned gender quotas
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  Speaker 3: were a slippery slope to other kinds of diversity quotas, saying,
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  Speaker 3: once you go down this quota thing, where will you
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  Speaker 3: end up? Why not people of color? Where our brown
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  Speaker 3: boys and black people. Yes, it would be fabulous to
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: boost female representation in politics, but it's clear what voters
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  Speaker 3: really care about is good policy that will actually improve
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  Speaker 3: their lives whoever is behind it. And I will also
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  Speaker 3: be speaking to Warren Mundine about this later in the show.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: Reporter Georgie Dickinson joins me live now from regional Victoria
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  Speaker 3: for more on the Aaron Patterson mushroom trial guilty verdict. Georgie,
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  Speaker 3: it's been a very big day for you. You were in
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  Speaker 3: that room when the verdict was handed down. Tell us
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  Speaker 3: about Aaron Patterson's reaction.
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  Speaker 8: Good eating to you, Caroline. It was a packed, very
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  Speaker 8: the packed room here in this small regional town of
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  Speaker 8: more Well. This court case, this court behind me, is
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  Speaker 8: normally not one for large court cases, but it has
• 12:35
  Speaker 8: been captivated by this trial of Aaron Patterson. When we
• 12:39
  Speaker 8: got the notice that the verdict was going to be
• 12:41
  Speaker 8: handed down, it was basically a mad rush to be
• 12:44
  Speaker 8: able to get outside that courtroom, to be able to
• 12:47
  Speaker 8: try and get a seat to see the moment that
• 12:50
  Speaker 8: verdict was handed down. So we sat inside the court
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  Speaker 8: and Aaron Patterson was brought inside, and she was sat
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  Speaker 8: beside two court officers, and she didn't really have much
• 13:00
  Speaker 8: of an expression on her face. I saw her and
• 13:03
  Speaker 8: joke with one of the officers court officers before the
• 13:06
  Speaker 8: jury was brought in, But once the jurors were actually
• 13:09
  Speaker 8: brought in, she looked each at each and every one
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  Speaker 8: of them as they made their way inside the court
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  Speaker 8: to sit down, and I didn't really see the jurors
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  Speaker 8: looked too much in the way of Aaron Pattison, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 8: she continued to stare at them, and that is when
• 13:22
  Speaker 8: eventually we did hear those four counts read out, and
• 13:26
  Speaker 8: that is when we heard those three guilty charges for
• 13:30
  Speaker 8: murder and guilty for attempted murder. But we didn't really
• 13:33
  Speaker 8: see much of a change of expression on Aaron Patterson's face.
• 13:37
  Speaker 8: She stood staring directly forward. She was blinking her eyes,
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: but that was really the only movement that we could
• 13:43
  Speaker 8: actually see from her. Despite being found guilty on all
• 13:46
  Speaker 8: four counts. The only person that was really showing much
• 13:50
  Speaker 8: emotion inside the courtroom was one of her supporters, Alison.
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  Speaker 3: In the front row.
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  Speaker 8: She was being comforted by the person beside her. We
• 13:56
  Speaker 8: saw her defense counsel. We were all actually asked to
• 13:59
  Speaker 8: leave while her defense counsel could have a minute with
• 14:01
  Speaker 8: their client, and that is when we all came outside
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  Speaker 8: and waited for the moments that we might be able
• 14:06
  Speaker 8: to try and speak to her defense He didn't want
• 14:08
  Speaker 8: to answer any questions. And we also did hear from
• 14:11
  Speaker 8: some of the lead detectives in the case that Carolina,
• 14:15
  Speaker 8: it was quite a moment sitting in there waiting for
• 14:18
  Speaker 8: those jurors to issue that guilty or not guilty verdict,
• 14:21
  Speaker 8: and ultimately now we have found that Aaron Pattison is
• 14:24
  Speaker 8: in fact a murderer.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, huge verdict today. And it's been a week that
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: you've been there, Georgia Again, I know you've covered a
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: lot of this trial waiting for this verdict. In your view,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: having heard a lot of the evidence, what do you
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: think may have been holding back one or more of
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: the jurors in reaching this decision. Was there any evidence
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: in particular that stood out for you, Because for a
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: lot of people watching at home, they're thinking, it's obvious
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: she was guilty. But what do you think held them back.
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: It's hard to say exactly what, but I think one
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: of the main things that may have caused this delay
• 14:59
  Speaker 8: is just the sh amount of evidence that was actually
• 15:02
  Speaker 8: put to these jurors. Fifty three witnesses ultimately were questioned
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: and cross examined within this case over a ten week period.
• 15:10
  Speaker 8: Justice Christopher Bill in handing his directions down alone or
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: last Monday, he took four days to do that, and
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: it was around four hundred pages of directions, which isn't
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: even covering the whole entire court case. That is just
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: his summary in his key points that he wanted to put.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Forward to jurors.
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: So when they are only deliberating for four and a
• 15:29
  Speaker 8: half five hours each day, you kind of understand how
• 15:33
  Speaker 8: this could have actually taken a few days just to
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: sift through the difference of opinions or the different ways
• 15:39
  Speaker 8: they may have taken some of the evidence from this.
• 15:42
  Speaker 8: But there were key parts of evidence that were put forward.
• 15:45
  Speaker 8: The dumping of the dehydrator that did contain death cat mushrooms,
• 15:48
  Speaker 8: the wiping of one of her iPhones was ultimately that
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: and her internet history on one of the websites, the
• 15:55
  Speaker 8: Iye Naturalist website, and the fact that she presented the
• 15:59
  Speaker 8: whole hospital but didn't allow for a full examination after
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: some of her members of her family were so incredibly unwell.
• 16:06
  Speaker 8: So so many pieces to this case, and that is
• 16:09
  Speaker 8: why it has taken these ten weeks now today being
• 16:12
  Speaker 8: the eleventh week in a trial that was only originally
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: slated to run for five to six weeks.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Carolyn Georgia Dickerson, you've done an amazing job. Thank you
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: so much for your time tonight and bring us the
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: latest on that case. Now, specialist in criminal law, Sam
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Macedoni from Macedonian Legal joins me for more analysis on
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: this verdict. Sam, it's great to have you on. Did
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: this verdict surprise you or were you expecting this result?
• 16:37
  Speaker 9: No, I was expecting it because the longer the jury
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: tach to come to the conclusion, it's obvious to me
• 16:43
  Speaker 9: that the verdict is always going to be one of guilty,
• 16:46
  Speaker 9: other than maybe a hung jury. And that's hugely because
• 16:50
  Speaker 9: there's one, two, three or more people that have a
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: problem with coming to a decision and it takes a
• 16:57
  Speaker 9: bit of time for able to discuss, you know, various
• 17:02
  Speaker 9: options that are available, and for other people to eventually
• 17:06
  Speaker 9: become convinced that yeah, okay, guilty is the verdict.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: It is still a big decision for Drew to be
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: able to send someone away for what will be a
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: long time.
• 17:15
  Speaker 9: Look, it's a very very serious decision. Think about it.
• 17:20
  Speaker 9: You make a decision that actually puts someone in jail
• 17:23
  Speaker 9: for a very long time, cuts off all their family ties,
• 17:26
  Speaker 9: their whole life has changed. So and I think members
• 17:30
  Speaker 9: of the jury take that job very seriously and because
• 17:33
  Speaker 9: of that, they are very very careful in making that decision.
• 17:37
  Speaker 9: They won't make a decision just on the drop of
• 17:40
  Speaker 9: a hat. They will really considerate until they're absolutely satisfied.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: It is a high bar beyond reasonable doubt. It seemed
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: to me, though, that Aaron Patterson had been utterly discredited
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: as a witness. The fact she chose to put herself
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: on the stand at all was interesting. There were so
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: many lies that she was caught out on. Do you
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: think that was a mistake for her to actually take
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: the stand.
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: Look, it's not usual for someone to take the stand,
• 18:06
  Speaker 9: but I think it was a very brave move by
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: her inasmuch that someone had to explain the various lies
• 18:14
  Speaker 9: that had been told, the various things that were against her,
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: and she tried her best to do to do what
• 18:23
  Speaker 9: she could to explain those things. But obviously it convinced
• 18:28
  Speaker 9: some jury people for some time, but not eventually talk us.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Through next steps. What would she would have a chance
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: to appeal if she decides to, But what grounds would
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: that be to do so?
• 18:40
  Speaker 9: Look, she's got an automatic rite of appeal. She would
• 18:43
  Speaker 9: have to apply to the Court of Criminal Appeal. Three
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: judges would then look at all of the evidence that
• 18:50
  Speaker 9: was put forward in the trial, and they would have
• 18:53
  Speaker 9: to come to the conclusion that the jury came to
• 18:56
  Speaker 9: a safe and reasonable verdict in view of that evidence,
• 19:01
  Speaker 9: or alternatively, they might find that the evidence was such
• 19:05
  Speaker 9: that they could not have reasonably come to the decision
• 19:08
  Speaker 9: that they came to. It's very rare that they would
• 19:12
  Speaker 9: find against a jury's finding in a case.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: Like this, and very quickly. There's also sentencing still to happen.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: It's a maximum twenty years I understand for this offense.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: How likely would it be that she'd get the maximum.
• 19:24
  Speaker 9: She won't get the maximum, but keep in mind there
• 19:26
  Speaker 9: were three charges of murder, one of attempted murder, so
• 19:30
  Speaker 9: technically there's twenty twenty and twenty for the murders. That
• 19:33
  Speaker 9: sixty years. She won't get anything like that, but I
• 19:36
  Speaker 9: dare say she'd get thirty plus as an aggregate sentence
• 19:40
  Speaker 9: with a non parole period somewhere between twenty and twenty
• 19:44
  Speaker 9: five years.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: So best part of her life, if not the rest.
• 19:47
  Speaker 9: Of her life, the rest of her life really, because
• 19:49
  Speaker 9: when she comes out, she'll be that old that she's
• 19:52
  Speaker 9: not going to be any harm to anyone.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Sam Macetoni really appreciate your expertise. Carol, thank you, great
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: to see you us. Now is Barnaby, Joy's former Deputy
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Prime Minister National MP Barnaby always great.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: To see you, see you too, Carol.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Anthony Albanizi, he's made this speech over the weekend in
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: which he distanced Australia from the US.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: This was very dangerous, very very dangerous.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Well expand on that, because it seems like our relationship
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: with the US is already on tenterhooks and now he's
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: gone and said, well, we don't need to be that
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: close to the US. What impact is that going to have.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: That's first of all, let's recognize the sacrifice that American
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: servicemen made during the Second World War. They were killed
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: in numbers far greater than Australia, and ultimately it was
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: for the protection of Australia and protection of the Imperial
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: Japanese Army that was already in New Guinea that had
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: bombed Darwin.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Let's not forget that it was not a mythical thread.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: It was a real threat. My grandfather he fought at
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Kuada Canal. So I'm very aware of this. And the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: next thing, we should be very.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Aware of the fact that our defense forces way below
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: par what needs to be.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: We don't have the numbers.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: We have six submarines which at times not one of
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: them is serviceable.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: We can get it to see.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: We have frigates that are way past they use by day.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: We have so called warships which merely glorified frigates. Without
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: the United States, we do not have the capacity to
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: defend Australia. That is absolutely empirically clear. And so this
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: idea that we are now in a position where the
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: American President and the Prime Minister of Australia are not
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: talking to one another, that is disastrous. And this quirky,
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: bizarre speech that the Prime minister gave that we're going
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: to sort of go it alone with what Prime Minister with?
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: What are we going at alone with?
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: And talking is sort of coming up to a totalitarian
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: regime which is already sort of taken over the South
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: China Sea, has in carted over a million wiguas as
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: basically ramming Philippine ships, has done live fire exercises in
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: the Tasman Sea adjacent to Sydney, our biggest city, and
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: has said basically research vessels which are just working out
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: the oceanography around Melbourne. I mean this is really really bad,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: bad news for Australia and very very very dangerous for us.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Well, well, let's play some of that speech and the
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: part that is so objectionable to you right now for
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: our viewers.
• 22:39
  Speaker 10: Curtain's famous statement that Australia looked to America was much
• 22:44
  Speaker 10: more than the idea of trading one strategic guaranteur for another,
• 22:50
  Speaker 10: or swapping an alliance with the old world for one
• 22:54
  Speaker 10: with the new. There was a recognition that Australia's pate
• 22:58
  Speaker 10: would be decided in our.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's not a chance that Trump's administration wouldn't
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: be aware of this.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: As far as it's wrong, it's factually wrong. You have
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: to remember that even Curtain was incredibly aware of the
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: threat that was coming to Australia and his reliance on
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: the United States. You've got to remember the Curtain, before
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: the war nineteen was arguing in the nineteen thirty seven
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: election for the rearmament and the build up of Australia's
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: defense force.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I don't hear that from the Prime Minister.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: We also understand that Curtin was dealing with the issues
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: of how with the with the incursion of the Japanese
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: into the Pacific, who was the reliable ally to protect Australia.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: If we got this wrong, if we had lost Caroline,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: you and I would not be having this discussion. We
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: would be over.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: And if we get this wrong in the future, Caroline
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: Knew and I and your viewers and their super funds
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: and their houses and their kids, and our nation is over,
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: is finished. And anybody who denies history of things, Oh,
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: I know it's all different now. No, it's not different.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: You can just turn on your television set. You see
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: how different the world is now. It's exactly the same.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: And you know you can't play dice with Australia like this.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know that the Prime Minister's got his
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: nose out a joint because he feels slighted by the
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: President of the United States, and he's he's got a
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: little bit.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: On his spleen and he's going to show how big
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: his muscles are.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: But his muscles are not very big at all, actually,
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: and he's got to part that, get over your the
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: ego and say how do we open up an engagement
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: of conversations at the highest level between the Prime Minister
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: of Australia and the President of the United States.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And to be quite frank at that requires.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: That you know that mister Rudd, who you know is
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: not a bad guy, but he's in the wrong job
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: in the United States. It's a very much the wrong job.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: If he has to be moved on to somewhere else,
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: were you going to move them on? Because your number
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: one job, mister Albineze, is the protection of the Australian people.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: And if we did not, we don't have a US
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: alliance that's working, we are not protected and in our
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: world of trouble.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's very finding Barnaby Joyce. It was so good
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: to chat to you about that. There's no more pressing
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: issue right now. I think unfortunately we didn't get time
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: to go to more topics, but I appreciate your time tonight.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Back to our top story now. In the Israeli Prime
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Minister has issued a rebuke to the federal government demanding
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: it add a spate of anti Semitic attacks in Melbourne
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: over the weekend and do more about it. In a statement,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Benjamin Nanna, who wrote, we demand that the Australian government
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: take all action to deal with the writers to the
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: fullest extent of the law and prevent similar attacks in
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: the future. As we know, the East Melbourne Hebrew Congregation
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: was targeted on Friday night when a man allegedly set
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: fire to the synagogue where twenty people, including children were inside.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Minutes later, there was another violent incident at an Israeli
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: restaurant in Melbourne, CBD. And this was the PM's response.
• 26:17
  Speaker 10: And the fact that people were having a peaceful dinner
• 26:22
  Speaker 10: and was disrupted by this act of violence could have
• 26:26
  Speaker 10: had catastrophic consequences and it is just fortunate that people
• 26:32
  Speaker 10: have been kept safe.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: And this was the best that Victorian Premier de senter
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: Alan could offer up today after missing an action for
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: two days.
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: So too, we spoke about the future, about how hate
• 26:47
  Speaker 7: needs to stop and how the Anti Hate Task Force
• 26:50
  Speaker 7: will be convened, working with Victoria Police, working with the
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: Jewish community, working with all Victorians, how we put a stop,
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: put a stop to this hateful behavior and recognize that
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: hate has no place here in our state.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Joining us now is Sharon Haskell, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: She's on her way to Jerusalem at the moment. Thank
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: you for finding the time to talk to us, Sharon.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: It was a very strongly worded statement from mister nat
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: Yahoo that we heard there. What would you say to
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: our leader Anthony Albanisi and his government about the explosion
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: in anti Semitism that we've seen here in Australia since
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: the October seven attacks on your country.
• 27:33
  Speaker 11: Well, there has to be enforcement. There has to be
• 27:37
  Speaker 11: enforcement of hate speech, of violence. Those perpetrated have to
• 27:43
  Speaker 11: be accountable for their actions, and more so, there has
• 27:47
  Speaker 11: to be de terrence. I mean, after you arrest someone
• 27:52
  Speaker 11: who could murder innocent civilians because of a hate rine,
• 27:56
  Speaker 11: because of terrorism, they are terrorizing the Jewish community's life,
• 28:02
  Speaker 11: and so after you arrest them, it is extremely important
• 28:08
  Speaker 11: that they'll be persecuted and judged because this will be
• 28:12
  Speaker 11: the terrence. And since the eighth of October, those chants
• 28:17
  Speaker 11: in the demonstration gas the Jews, gas the Jews, that
• 28:22
  Speaker 11: there was no accountability for that, No one was arrested,
• 28:26
  Speaker 11: no one's no one was accountable for those violence calling
• 28:30
  Speaker 11: for death, and since then it only deteriorated, and so
• 28:35
  Speaker 11: it is extremely extremely important the enforcement of the law
• 28:39
  Speaker 11: and the de terrence.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Well, instead we were gaslet and told that no one
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: was saying gas the Jews in the first place. You
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: might have seen all of that debate here they were
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: saying where's the Jews instead, as if that was any
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: better or less threatening. I want to get your take
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: on the Victorian premier. She's now announced this new anti
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: hate task for in Victoria. What do you make of that?
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Look?
• 29:04
  Speaker 11: I think, you know, I congratulate for that. But until now,
• 29:09
  Speaker 11: this is still words. There has to be actions behind it,
• 29:14
  Speaker 11: and so it's good that there's going to be a
• 29:16
  Speaker 11: task for it. I'm uh, you know, we're blessing for it,
• 29:20
  Speaker 11: and it's important it's being coordinated with the Jewish community
• 29:25
  Speaker 11: whose life have been threatened. Uh and and so you
• 29:29
  Speaker 11: know it's important, but it's also important the actions behind it.
• 29:35
  Speaker 11: So it's still early days, but I really hope that
• 29:38
  Speaker 11: they'll have somewhat of responsibilities, but things that they can
• 29:43
  Speaker 11: actually do, whether that's arresting people who are committing crimes
• 29:49
  Speaker 11: eight times and then bring them, whether it is to
• 29:54
  Speaker 11: the police station and to the court to be persecuted.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: There definitely needs to be more that happens. Sharon Haskell,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: thank you. I know it's a very busy time net now,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Who's off to the White House. Hopefully we'll hear some
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: news about maybe a ceas buy a deal with her
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: mass as well. Appreciate your time tonight. Now coming up
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: an emphatic no to quotas. That's Warren Mundine's take on
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: the liberals current ideological dilomma. He'll draw me next. Welcome back.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: The ideological civil war in the Liberal Party over quotas
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: is still dominating headlines. Liberal stalwart Warren Mundine through in
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: his two cents worth over the weekend, he reckons quotas
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: are a slippery slope and a quote crap campaign was
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: the real reason for the liberals electoral electoral annihilation, not
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: a problem attracting female votes. Warren Mundine joins me. Now,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Warren took me through this idea here, but what is
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: your issue with quotas?
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: Look, I don't have a great issue with creator. I
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: think this is just a total sideshow and a diversion
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: from what the real issues were. You know, when you
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: look leading up to this election, you know New South
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: Wales was put under administration because they couldn't register one
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: hundred and forty of their candidates for local government. That's
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: cost us a lot of good people. You look at
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: the look at the polling in Victoria today where it says, oh,
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: we all hate the Victorian government, but we're not going
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: to vote for you. And this is the real issues
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: that we should be focusing on rather than talking about quotas. Yes,
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: we need more women getting out there, and we had
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: some brilliant women who were in that campaign, but they
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: didn't get elected. They didn't get elected because we had
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: a crap campaign.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Let's get back to the real issues.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: One of those women was Giselle Captainian who was running
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: in the seat of Bradfield and Sydney. You were hoping
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: for pre selection there and she didn't get in. She
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: lost out to a teal first time it's not been
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: in Liberal hands. And we also saw and golfed Finn,
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: a male Tim Wilson get elected over a female till.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: But that's a good, good example of Gazelle. Gazelle didn't
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: need a quota to beat me. She got there on
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: her own merits and she should be sitting in the
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: Parliament today, but she's not because of the campaign that
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: was run.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: You said that if the party looked at started looking
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: at gender quotas, then there would be a slippery slope
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: an argument for other kinds of quotas. People of color
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: or people from different multicultural backgrounds.
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: Well, a good example of that is more than fifty
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: percent of Australians now either born overseas or one of
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: their parents have been was born overseas. Where is that
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: we need to do a lot of work across the
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: whole Australian electric. Why aren't we out there attracting these
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: incredible people that we need to and why aren't we
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: keeping our membership? Why are we losing our members? These
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: are the things that we should be focusing on.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And this is how a.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: Political party survives. The political party survives because they focus
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: on the needs of the Australian people and they answer
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: that question the answer for those needs. But you know what,
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: and the members. We need to look after our members,
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: look after our supporters and keep them in the party,
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: and attract other people in the party. Attract women, attract
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: at young people. Now that's what we should be focusing
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: on rather than having this decide. Showed this diversionary thing
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: which is not going to win us a vote anyway.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: So you don't think they should be As you said
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: to me just before we came on a quota for
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: handsome brown men.
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: That one I do like you. I think that'd be
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: a good thing. But look, let's sell your how stupid
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: you get into this thing? Okay, we should be focusing
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: on why we lost the election. Why in Victoria in
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: thirty years, we've only been in power for four years.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: Why is it that we've got a useless government in
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: Victoria but we can't even look like winning it. These
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: are the things that we should be worth focusing on.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: There are a lot more deeper issues to look out,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Warren Mandine, thank you so much for your time. Up
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: next to Anthony Albanesi prepares for a second trip to China,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: but can't still wrangle one with Donald Trump. Welcome back, well.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Albanezi is being schooled by former Ambassador to the US
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Arthur Cynadinus. He's urging rpm to make it abundantly clear
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: to the Trump administration we aren't going our own way
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: on foreign policy. Joining me now is Guyanese host Caroline
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: de Rousso and Gemma Tonyuni from GT Communications. Welcome to
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: you both, ladies.
• 34:41
  Speaker 12: Hello, Hello, great to be here.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Gemma. Surely if there was an example of what not
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: to do in diplomatic relations, it would be Anthony Albanesi
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: and how he's handled this relationship with the US.
• 34:53
  Speaker 12: It is really curious to observe because it does speak
• 34:57
  Speaker 12: ordinarily to a lack of experience, and it speaks to
• 35:00
  Speaker 12: somebody who doesn't really carry any sense of leadership or
• 35:03
  Speaker 12: carry any sense of gravitas. And it's this embarrassing can't
• 35:06
  Speaker 12: get a meeting. And you know, ideology shouldn't matter, It
• 35:10
  Speaker 12: shouldn't matter, but it does matter. It's like laced into
• 35:12
  Speaker 12: everything that this government does. And we're making When I
• 35:16
  Speaker 12: say we, I mean the government is making Australia more
• 35:19
  Speaker 12: and more irrelevant on an international stage. And this is
• 35:23
  Speaker 12: just the latest example of that. And mister Sidneedis is
• 35:27
  Speaker 12: one hundred percent right.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Of course, what do you think Albo is playing out here?
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: What is he trying to achieve through this latest speech,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: at this John Curtin's address that he gave and all
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: his other remarks that have seemed to only be distancing
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: ourselves further from the US.
• 35:47
  Speaker 13: Well, I think he's trying to sit on the fence,
• 35:49
  Speaker 13: and I think he's trying to not upset anyone. But
• 35:53
  Speaker 13: sometimes when you try not to upset anyway, and you
• 35:55
  Speaker 13: end up satisfying no one. And the point that Jemma
• 35:58
  Speaker 13: makes about experiences really interesting here because Alpo has been
• 36:02
  Speaker 13: around a really long time.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: But you know, this is not the issue we're dealing
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: with here. This is not at some Labor Party national conference.
• 36:10
  Speaker 13: He's not an internal party operator, you know, having some
• 36:15
  Speaker 13: you know comment on some you know motion out of
• 36:18
  Speaker 13: one of the branches or whatever. This is actually the
• 36:20
  Speaker 13: Australian position and how that reflects and how that's perceived
• 36:27
  Speaker 13: by our allies and by our trading partners externally. So
• 36:32
  Speaker 13: not he has been around a long time, but when
• 36:34
  Speaker 13: it comes to these sorts of external things, he's actually
• 36:37
  Speaker 13: not really that experience.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: And I actually just don't think that he has.
• 36:41
  Speaker 13: A real clear idea in his mind or real good
• 36:44
  Speaker 13: personal judgment himself to be able to know what to
• 36:47
  Speaker 13: do here. Hence the dithering and the hand ringing and
• 36:51
  Speaker 13: the arming and ring and the thising and that in
• 36:53
  Speaker 13: because he actually doesn't really know what the position ought
• 36:56
  Speaker 13: to be and which is totally unacceptable.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: Well yeah it is. And meanwhile the PM is prepping
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: for his second trip to China. I mean, talk about priorities.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: This is leading to accusations that Albanesi is trying to
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: pull us closer to China while distancing us from America.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: Jama He has to know this is not a good look.
• 37:17
  Speaker 12: Well, I think historically Australians don't like this, and it's
• 37:22
  Speaker 12: not about anything else other than alignment of values.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: America is a democracy. It's not perfect.
• 37:29
  Speaker 12: Australia is certainly not perfect, but it's a democracy. And
• 37:32
  Speaker 12: the Chinese government is not a democracy. The Chinese government
• 37:37
  Speaker 12: currently has countless you know, for example, small example, but
• 37:42
  Speaker 12: the Jungen Muslims. I mean, that's one example. What is
• 37:46
  Speaker 12: the Prime Minister saying about that? For example? There got
• 37:48
  Speaker 12: so much to say on Gaza, so much to say
• 37:51
  Speaker 12: about Israel a democracy, and yet it is dragging Australia
• 37:56
  Speaker 12: closer at the top end, and by that I mean
• 37:58
  Speaker 12: at the relationship end to a government that is not
• 38:01
  Speaker 12: aligned with Australian freedoms and Australian values. That should concern
• 38:07
  Speaker 12: every day Australians in a great way, and it does.
• 38:11
  Speaker 12: Again it speaks to this ideology that is laced through
• 38:14
  Speaker 12: everything that this government says and everything that this government does.
• 38:18
  Speaker 12: It doesn't matter what the outcome of that ideology, it is,
• 38:21
  Speaker 12: whether it's an impact on productivity and the manufacturing sector
• 38:25
  Speaker 12: of this government wages all.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Of that sort of stuff.
• 38:28
  Speaker 12: It's just about this university, great approach to life.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: Look a different topic. It's the first real displayer bipartisanship.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I think we've seen. Opposition Leader Susan Lee has made
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: clear she wants to work alongside the PM to implement
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: childcare reform more urgently. After last week's horrific revelations about
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: a male childcare worker who's now been charged here she
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: was on Sunrise this morning.
• 38:57
  Speaker 14: I've written to the Prime Minister to offer my full
• 39:01
  Speaker 14: support and collaboration. Clearly, there are loopholes in the system
• 39:06
  Speaker 14: which allow predators to prey on children, and it is
• 39:10
  Speaker 14: just so horrific.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Caar, what do you think needs to happen in the
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: sector to minimize the risk of this kind of disgusting abuse,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: alleged abuse we should say in this case from happening again.
• 39:25
  Speaker 13: Well, good on Susan for being very practical here, and
• 39:28
  Speaker 13: the Coalition did this obviously as well in the last term.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: In relation to the.
• 39:32
  Speaker 13: NDIS and in relation to age care. I think the
• 39:36
  Speaker 13: thing that's important here is identifying what the actual problem is.
• 39:40
  Speaker 13: We've seen the way it manifest but we need to
• 39:42
  Speaker 13: actually work out and be very clear what the problem
• 39:45
  Speaker 13: is and then put in place a solution that actually
• 39:48
  Speaker 13: covers over the problem. And what is so often the
• 39:51
  Speaker 13: issue with government solutions is there is a problem that's
• 39:56
  Speaker 13: you speak, and then there is this massive solution which
• 39:59
  Speaker 13: never cover over the problem, but which creates a whole
• 40:02
  Speaker 13: heap of cost and compliance.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: So yes, there is obviously going to be.
• 40:05
  Speaker 13: Cost and compliance in relation to improving whatever the mechanisms
• 40:12
  Speaker 13: that need to be changed here to improve the safety
• 40:15
  Speaker 13: of children. And that goes without saying, and I think
• 40:19
  Speaker 13: everyone is on board with that, but we need to
• 40:21
  Speaker 13: make sure that whatever those solutions are, they deal effectively
• 40:25
  Speaker 13: with that problem and then don't go and create other
• 40:27
  Speaker 13: problems and costs that aren't necessary. So very happy to
• 40:30
  Speaker 13: see both sides of politics working on this here.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Obviously, it is.
• 40:36
  Speaker 13: About looking after our smallest and our most vulnerable and
• 40:39
  Speaker 13: making sure they get really good care.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: So let's just hope that.
• 40:42
  Speaker 13: Everyone puts their heads together and they come out with
• 40:45
  Speaker 13: some really good, practical solutions to deal with the issue.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: And nothing is more important, Jemma. And one discussion I
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: think that's missed from this is our over dependence on
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: childcare in the usualized childcare in the first place, and
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: how the system is not set up to help women
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: stay at home.
• 41:02
  Speaker 12: Kiss is the absolute missing piece of the puzzle. And
• 41:05
  Speaker 12: for those of you who've read my columns and listened
• 41:07
  Speaker 12: to me speak for the last few I didn't get
• 41:09
  Speaker 12: to be a mum, so I don't talk about that
• 41:10
  Speaker 12: from you from that perspective, but it is not difficult,
• 41:14
  Speaker 12: and the data here refutably supports the fact that children
• 41:18
  Speaker 12: have better outcomes when they are with a primary caregiver.
• 41:20
  Speaker 12: That's not always possible, but if the government are actually
• 41:23
  Speaker 12: interested in anything other than a ideologically driven institutionalized childcare
• 41:29
  Speaker 12: and creating an environment where I'm sorry, there is a
• 41:31
  Speaker 12: great deal of grift. Anywhere that there's subsidies, there's grift,
• 41:34
  Speaker 12: but actually giving parents an option to say we are
• 41:37
  Speaker 12: going to provide financial support.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Here are a range of choices. If your grandmother, if
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: your aunt, if your friend who.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Is a teacher.
• 41:46
  Speaker 12: They are options that families in Australia should have access to.
• 41:49
  Speaker 12: And it is a disgusting shame that we focus on
• 41:53
  Speaker 12: getting kids into full time.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Daycare at the age of three. I wouldn't have put
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: my dog in full time daycare.
• 41:58
  Speaker 12: Frankly, it is appalling oversight by governments, successive governments that
• 42:04
  Speaker 12: they have not provided this level of thinking and choice.
• 42:07
  Speaker 12: And let me tell you, the government that stops focusing
• 42:10
  Speaker 12: on quotas and actually starts giving women choices and access
• 42:13
  Speaker 12: to real choices to run their families the way that
• 42:16
  Speaker 12: they want to, then we might see something.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Amen to that. I mean I think it would. There
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: needs to be a lot of change in the system
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: and how culture values women and mothers as well, so
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: are pushing them back into the paper.
• 42:29
  Speaker 12: I mean, nothing makes a woman more of a baby
• 42:31
  Speaker 12: factory than saying, pop out your kid, whack it in
• 42:33
  Speaker 12: but childcare and get back to work.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: You would know this.
• 42:36
  Speaker 12: You want the choice to be able to say I
• 42:37
  Speaker 12: want to be present in my child's life and I
• 42:39
  Speaker 12: will have of agency over who helps me.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Care for that child. We need, we need to start
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: prioritizing the rights of childreldren and.
• 42:47
  Speaker 12: The well being of children and not the profitability of
• 42:49
  Speaker 12: a sector that is propped up and as I said,
• 42:52
  Speaker 12: open to grift and as we've seen significant issues so true.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: Gemma Tonini and Caroline Russo, thank you so much for
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: your time tonight now after the break a Jewish artist
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: who saw the aftermath of both anti Semitic attacks in
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Melbourne on Friday Night. She'll share her Eyewinness account next
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Welcome Back. As I spoke about at the top of
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: the show, Friday nights events in Melbourne were a damning
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: indictment on this country. The front door of the East
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Melbourne Hebrew Congregation doused with an accelerant, an attempt to
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: set the building alight as twenty worshipers gathered inside. Then
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: at Miznon, an Israeli restaurant in Melbourne, CBD, protesters allegedly
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: smashed windows, flipped tables, through chairs, and utter disgrace. Nina
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Cenanse is a Jewish artist. She has a gallery near
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: the restaurant that she started for Jewish artists like herself
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: who were canceled by the industry after October seven. She
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: witnessed the aftermath of both the Miznon and the East
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Melbourne Synagogue attack, and she joins me, now, Nina, thank
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you so much for your time tonight. Now you saw
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: the aftermath of all of this. Tell us what you
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: saw well.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I arrived there about half an hour after what happened.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: The police card and the pace, and what I saw
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: was something that reminded me of Crystal Nacht. I saw
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: everything was broken and the glass tables were down, food
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: was on the floor, people were cleaning up. But then
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I saw fasis of really really upset, distraught stuff and
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: visitors and people who were eating in the restaurant, multicultural
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: stuff works at the restaurant that were crying. They couldn't
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: understand why they've been attacked. What's happening here in Australia,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: How is it possible? So also what I saw was
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of courage, beauty and incredible light that came
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: through how Jewish people and how the stuff Australians were.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: They carried themselves. Songs were sung. It was a Shabbat night.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Misnan celebrates Shabbad not in a religious way, but to
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: acknowledge the tradition of Jewish people. The light candles and
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: itala and so the inn aftermath of this absolute horror,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: they managed to pull themselves together and light candles, sing
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: a song, say prayer for light for something needing to
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: change in this world. Community is not well. Obviously, something
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: is wrong in the society for this to be happening
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: in Australia.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Well, these are your friends who actually run the mids
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Noan restaurant, and I haven't been to the one in Melbourne.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: I have been to the one in Singapore and I
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: highly recommend it. It's very good. But how are they
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: feeling after this and how some wider Melbourne Jewish community
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: feeling after these attacks?
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Well, it's devastating. It's scary, you know, after experiencing seeing
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: what was happening as miss known. Just as we were
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: lighting candles, the news came in about the East Melbourne Synagogue,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: so ten minutes from there, I ran because I also
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: know radby there, I know people I ate there just
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: two weeks ago. It was just more than upsetting to
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: see what's happening there. And on Saturday we saw that
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: on the street where there is Shlo Maley Home Jewish
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Primary School whereas Holocaust Museum, there is a Jewish Coadema theater,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: they've been swastickers plasted on the walls. So it's extremely upsetting,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and how it's exhausting, unexhausted, it's been you know, hemmery
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: of really bad news and it's scary.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: It must be so disturbing for you because you were
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: there in the aftermath of Via Das Synagogue burning also
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: in Melbourne back in December. It even inspired some of
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: your recent work. Tell us about that.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Oh well, after I was canceled as a Jewish creative,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: you know, straight after seven of October, the harassment and
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: the cancelation, exclusion and targeting of Jewish creatives has started
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: and continuing. Now it's not something that's spoken, not something
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: you see a lot in the news, but it's there
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: loudly or quietly. And so now I have shifted my
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: artistic practice and all my focus. I'll open the gallery
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: for Jewish creatives to have a space, a safe space,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: because there is no space is almost left in the
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: arts spaces that call themselves progressive. So we now have
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: a space called Stone Gallery in Collingwood to miss Non
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: and for this I created exhibition in this space where
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I brought the story of Adas. So also I have
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: an exhibition in front of the Jewish Museum in arm
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: the Road. You can see I salvaged burned down chairs,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: doors and whatever was left from the fire bomb up dust.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: The half a building was destroyed and I created an
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: installation which you can see. It's on the street in
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: front of the Jewish Museum and also had work exhibited
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: here which was called no Hate.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: I mean that's amazing to be able to create them
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: from literally the ashes of an attack works of art.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Just very quickly, Is there a message you'd like to
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: give to Anthony Albanisi to the Victorian premiere? We only
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: have about a minute. What would you like to say
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: to our leaders?
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: I think there needs to be new laws or you know.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: I saw, for example, the information go out to target
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Misson on Thursday, and on Friday I emailed people, who
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: are you I set? Can this be taken down? So
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of the target has happened through online media
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: and this information didn't go down. There were calls to
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: target Misson and nothing was done about it.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: When will they stop?
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: This is incredible and there needs to be inquiry into
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: what's happening in the arts with Jewish creatives everywhere in
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: the social media. It's unbearable. We're dealing with the violence.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I imagine that we know the history of what's coming.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: Thank you for using your voice to speak out, and
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: I thank you for speaking to us. And I encourage
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: everyone to support Goldstone Gallery and miss Noon Restaurant. That's
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: all the time we have got for tonight. Stay tuned.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Peter Kretlin is up next, and I'll see you here
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: tomorrow