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SMNTY Classic: Romance Scams (SMNTY Gets Catfished) · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I'll Never told you, a production of iHeartRadio, and today
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: we're bringing back a classic on romance scams. I don't
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: know why, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of news about it, and it's
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: just been in my head. And especially because we've been
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: talking about how dating kind of looks for the younger
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: generation and how the technology is evolving. I'm just curious.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I think we're going to have to do a revisit
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: to this one soon.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Like just the different ideas and techniques. I sent you
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: that one where one brotary is literally like advocate for
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: your friend and they have to do powerpoints to try
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: to find them days and I'm like, what is this
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: millennial slash gen z melding point here?
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Because what well, hopefully that's not a scam.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm just saying, we need to have a
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: whole conversation about this whole field because it could be
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: to your friend.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I did when you sent that to me. I laughed
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: at some of the things on there. I'm hoping it's
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: coming from a good place. But one of them said
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Harlings constantly changes and I did laugh that was funny.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we're gonna have to come back and do
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: a visit a revisit of this one. But in the meantime,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Nanny and
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Samantha and welcome to Stefan. Never told you a protection
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. So to start this one, Samantha, I have
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: a couple questions for you. One. In your time online dating,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: do you feel like you came across a lot of
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: fake profiles or any kind of romantic scams.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: I definitely came across fake profiles, a few of them,
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: and because of that and just in general of my mistrust,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: if they were too good looking.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: I assumed it was fake and moved on.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: If they didn't have a lot of information, I assume
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: they were fake and moved on. Or or there's some
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: reason like they're trying to be sneaky, sneaky and cheating
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: and they don't want their partner to see them or
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: be caught. I've seen a lot of that than being
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: real trickster I've had. Of course, if they're also not
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: showing their face, that was a big no as well.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: So I assume most of those were some type of lie,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: yeah or falsehood.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's interesting. We're going to come back
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to that and talk about that in this episode. Also,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: like when you imagine someone who is the target of
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: a romance scam the stereotypical victim in your mind.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Well, it goes back and forth, because sometimes I've definitely
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: seen the hopeless woman duped, so a woman who has
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: left a lot of money being like somehow taken advantage of.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: So I've seen a thought.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Of that, But then also lately, like the fishing, like
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: a catfishing that I've seen, it looks like it goes
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: off to a lot of what I would say, nerdy men,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: almost in cell level men. Oh wow, huh, I've seen
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: that as well. So it was like overly beautiful women
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: and their men are more likely to.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Believe that, right, Yeah, that's interesting.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: So I feel like because today we're talking about romance
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: scams and it is a popular topic of conversation right now,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure there's a couple of shows on
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Netflix that are coming out about it specifically, and I
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: think that our understanding of who I don't even want
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: to say, the stereotypical victim is because it's it's more
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: like it can happen any But I feel like for
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: a long time, my understanding was it was older usually
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: women who their husband had died and they didn't understand
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: the internet very well. Maybe right, they were very trusting,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: but also I feel like I've seen a lot of the.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Almost like.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I hate to say this, but like the show is
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: kind of painting as in this person and usually in
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: my case, woman is pathetic and she's so like her
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: self esteem is so low, and it's this guy reaching
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: out to her, and then it's kind of played off
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: as a joke that she believed in, right, Yeah, and
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: she's these.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Tears those episodes of that or usually that becomes like death.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Somehow, or they get like, yeah, I.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Don't want like an as sexual assault thing happens of
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: some sort or like among those I've seen that, so
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: that's a little darker twist. I've watched a lot of
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: dark things apparently, you know, when it comes to like
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: elderly people in getting scammed, I do see it being
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: older women, but usually something to do with religion or real.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: Estate, not necessarily romance.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: So we might have come back to that because that's
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: what I've seen a lot of questions and phone scams.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean there's so much, so much
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: to unpack here. I think it's interesting though that, like
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: as this has.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Become we've learned more about it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I can think of several different versions I've seen of
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: this playing out in our popular media.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: So, as I said, it can't happen to anybody.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: As we move into February, the month of love or
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: what did you call.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: It, Samantha, anti love?
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: We're anti Valentine essentially.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to celebrate it.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I've had some good ones totally. Yeah, but yeah, we're
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: kind of a.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: We do a darker take on an over here, Yeah,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: because we wanted to take this this look at a
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: not so happy aspect of love, as is our tradition,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: and that being romance scams.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And yes, as I said, they have been in.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: The news a lot lately, and there is a lot
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: of information out there about them, about how to recognize
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: them and prevent them specifically, and I will admit they
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: are a bigger problem than I thought they were.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Right, you know what I've seen recently, however, I've seen
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: more of like when I say romance scams, maybe like
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: just trickery in my head. So this is a little
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: different is when a partner is trying to see if
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: their partner will cheat, and it's typically women who are
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: reaching out to other women to ask to try to
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: start something with their man. Wow in these general relationships,
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: and I've seen a lot more of that. Like I've
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: seen a few where the men ask the men, but
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: it's typically women have been asking women.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: So I don't know if this is like an actual thing.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Or they've just like I somehow got on it on
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: the social media side.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: Of it and saw a lot more.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: I know there's a few popular women who are investigators
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: who've done this, and typically there have been several moments
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: where that woman who has hired this other woman, that
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: woman gets mad at the person they hired.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: It works, that's a whole different conversation. But I've seen
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: that recently.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I did not know about.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: That's interesting because I know, like again going back to stereotypes,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and I think there were I'm not sure what the
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: numbers are now, but last time I looked into this, men,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: like we talked about in cyberstalking, are much more likely
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: to try to investigate that their woman is cheating. Are
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: assume they're cheating, right, I would like to revisit that.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: That is interesting, okay, right, given.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: And I have seen where the men, if they've been
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: rejected on a site, tries to go back and find
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: that woman as a different person, so catfishing them, but's
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: stalking them and trying to get a second chance or
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: try to find out if they're dating other people, like
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: why they work up with them or something like that.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: So it's been really and that one's like a little
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: more stalkersh.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Yet I've seen so I've never experienced that to my knowledge. Yeah, no, definitely,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: because I'm very picky about who I'll engage with online.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: So I've never experienced that online. But I have experienced
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I know, I've told this story a million times, but
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: it just sticks out with me. Of this guy at
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: a club back when I went to the club, I
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: told him, like I flat out if we you know,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: we try so many different strategies as women to reject
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: that men that won't make them madden, and you know
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: there's so.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Much victim blaming in it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So one time I did, I just flat out told
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: this guy, I know, because I didn't want him to
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I tried to do it in a nice way, but
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I said, like, no, I'm not interested, and he shouted
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: in my face it's because I'm not brad Pit, isn't.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: It feels like he's.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: The type of guy who online is probably trying that now,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: but it's got like a Brad Pit esque.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: I got that weird online thing where a dude messaged
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: me but his message wasn't a like, wasn't necessarily a question.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: And this is the first communication I've ever had from him.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: And he immediately says, I would like to go out
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: with you, but I know women like you don't date
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: like men like me, and you only want the perfect
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: white guy, So I don't even know why I'm trying.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: That was its opener, and I was like, wow, well
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: you seem angry, so I don't. There's nothing about this
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: is redeeming.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know what you wanted, right, but yes, now
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely ignoring you. Right.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: That feels like, oh, like one of the worst examples
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard of somebody trying to prepare themselves for
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: rejection but hoping that you might be like, No, I
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: would never I'm not like those other girls.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: That's just terrible.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: Is that does that work? I got to know it
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: does that?
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: Like I really wish I could have asked to do
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: but I just didn't even want to.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: I'm like, work for you, because why would you do this?
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: What self perspective? Woman would actually like respond to this?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what is that called.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: There's a whole joke about it what we do in
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: the shadow than the TV show where it's like, oh,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: they have a fun word for it, but it's nega.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: So basically oh yeah, yeah, yeah, is like go and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: go up to this woman.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Women love it when you go up and are mean
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: to them and she'll be so attracted.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: But he was.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: Amazing himself, So I don't like that.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's nagging necessarily because it's typically like oh, yeah,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: I bet you're you're.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: Kind of cute, but you're not excuted as her like
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: that level. But like he did not do that.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: It just was like, you're not going to choose me
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: because I'm not wide enough for you, And I was like,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: what is happening?
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting and terrible I want to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: say a strategy.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: But I do.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like he thought like maybe you would want
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: to make him feel better and also want to prove
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to him.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Saying it's a good strategy. I'm just saying that's what
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: he was doing.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many things to the like online dating
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: and romance and everything that it's.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: Flipped as wild. This world is wild.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: It is, it is, and it's unfortunate that we have
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: to look out for these things romance scams, because I
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: do want to put in here, as we've already discussed
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: in this there are a lot of jokes about romance scams,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: but they've left people heartbroken and robbed, and when you
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: think about it.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: It's pretty mean. Like it's mean.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: And we've talked about grooming on social media and past
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: episodes and this that's highly related to what we're talking about.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It's also related to what we talked about in cybers talking.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, just to put that out there that there
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: are people who have suffered from these things that we're
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: talking about.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Let's start with a definition because we love that from
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the FBI's website. Quote, Romance scams occur when a criminal
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: adopts a fake online identity to gain a victim's affection
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: and trust. The scammer then uses the illusion of a
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: romantic or close relationship to manipulate and or steal from
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: the victim.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: And the FBI goes on to specify that the people
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: behind romance scams are often experts. They're often con artists,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: and they frequently operate on dating apps and social media.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: The con artist in question will work to endear themselves
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: to the target by building trust with conversation and interaction,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: with promises of meeting in person and perhaps marriage promises
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: that notably never come to fruition. They utilize fake dating
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: and social media profiles and what is often called catfishing.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Then comes the ask for money, often to cover a
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: surprise medical fee or a legal fee that they promise
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to pay back but never do. They often claim that
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: they are on building projects outside of the United States
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: or whatever country the target is located in. Scammers frequently
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: claim to be in the military too, or working on
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: an oil rig, or a doctor with an international organization,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So basically, they're like traveling a lot not near you,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and they often ask for money to pay for a
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: plane ticket or other travel expenses, surgery or other medical expenses,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: custom fees, to pay off gambling debts, or to pay
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: for travel documents. They usually ask the target to wire
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: money or to pay with a reload and or gift card.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Because they are anonymous and pretty much impossible to reverse.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: It's not a one time thing either. They keep asking
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: for more until the scam is up or the money
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: is gone right again.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: I feel like these are so many, either like criminal
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: minds or all these little episodes that we see. So
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: romance scams are up in recent years, which is really sad.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: In twenty twenty, the FTC reported three hundred and four
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: million dollars in losses due to romance scams, a fifty
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: percent increase from twenty nineteen. The reported money loss to
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: these scams has increased by six times since twenty fifteen.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: The FTC also reported that while there were eleven two
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five cases reported in twenty sixteen, there
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: were fifty two, five.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Hundred and ninety three and twenty twenty.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Who Yeah, that's a big number. That is a huge number,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and a part of this is yeah.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So. Numbers from twenty twenty one indicate that three out
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: of ten Americans have used a dating website, including one
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: out of five Americans between the ages of fifty to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: sixty four. However, while the popular stereotype is the one
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: of older folks becoming victims to these types of scams,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: anyone can be a target.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I just want to reiterate that anyone can be a target.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: In fact, a recent survey came out indicating that Gen
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Z is at the highest risk of these types of scams.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, I wonder why, let's find out.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: So from CNBC quote, the number of individuals ages twenty
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: or younger members of the Generation Z or gen Z
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: who has grown up on spartphones and the Internet reporting
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: they are victims of cyber fraud has served one hundred
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: and fifty six percent over the last three years. And
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: this is according to the study from Social Catfish, an
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: online identity verification service. Maybe we need to get onto
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: this type of services just to get scammed. That compares
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: to one hundred and twelve percent growth during the same
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: time among people age sixty or older, the group with
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the next fastest scam growth. So maybe it is a
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: social media and smartphones that's making that difference. However, the
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: overall financial toll is higher for older folks. The average
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: loss from a romantic scam for those over seventy is
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: four hundred and seventy five dollars compared to the twenty
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: five hundred dollars across all age groups.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's pretty significant.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty ten, romance scams accounting for one of
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: the top ten most costly scams for those sixty and older.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about this a bit later, but
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I do want to also know a listener several years ago,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: so I hope you're still listening, suggested this topic and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: they said how devastating it was to watch I believe
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: their mother just not believe that this wasn't a real
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: person and having those conversations because it's just so painful
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: to tell someone like, no, this isn't a real person,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: cares about you and they're just asking for money, And
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: how devastating it was for her as someone who knew
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: a person who's being affected by this.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: So it's not just like one person.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: It often has ripple effects for people in their support group.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: According to a detective interviewed by the Irish Times, when
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: it comes to romance scams, the vast majority of victims
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: are women. Many are separated or widowed, and in their
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: late fifties or their sixties. They might have family, but
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: maybe living alone. They have maybe had some wine in
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the evening, so their inhibitions are down. They are not, however,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: what I would describe as vulnerable. They are nive, for sure,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: but they tend to be very well educated professionals and
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: would hate to be described as vulnerable. More than seventy
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: percent of these caught up in romance scams are women.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: What happens with men is different. Not long after contact
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: is made, a man might get a video from the
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: woman he believes he is communicating with, and in it
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: she is performing a sex act, so he sends something
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: similar back, and then it quickly becomes a case of blackmail,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: which we talked about a little bit in our Cyberstocking episode.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: In the words of Paul C. Dwyer, chief executive of
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: cyber Risk International, quote, the romance scams are huge. They
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: try and find a lonely woman and get her to
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: fall in love with a handsome profile picture of a guy.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: It's not like there's one bad actor with one victim.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: These guys might have forty or fifty women on the go,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: and they keep all the plate spinning, so it becomes
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: extremely lucrative. They have their cubicle. That's their job, and
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: they go in every day and will keep files and
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: techniques as they work away to get somebody. What they're
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: selling is love and hope, and you have these lonely
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: people buying it because they're falling for the dream.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Oh makes me sad.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And these scams often overlap with other criminal activities. International
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: criminal gangs often use dating apps to launder illegally obtained
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: funds through bank accounts of unsuspecting folks, some who have
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: even been arrested for it, like they didn't realize their
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: bank accounts were being used in this way and they
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: got arrested. Going back to our recent episode on cryptocurrency,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: the FBI has recently raised the flag about the rise
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: of cryptocurrency scams, especially since there's so much confusion around
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: how crypto works and the whole get rich quick element
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: that kind of surrounds crypto just like romance scams. Crypto
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: scams have served in recent years. From October twenty twenty
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: to March twenty twenty one, the FTC received about six
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: eight hundred complaints compared to five hundred and seventy from
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the same period the year prior. Reported losses grew by
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: ten times to eighty million dollars. Sometimes crypto scammers are
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: also romance scammers. According to the FBI, in the first
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: seven months of twenty twenty one, they received one eight
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: hundred reports of crypto focused romance scams, equaling upwards of
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty three million dollars of losses. Some
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: of these are going yeah after thirty after forty or
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: fifty women at the same time, so that's a lot
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and many experts think the pandemic exacerbated all of this.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Online dating was the only acceptable dating and online interaction
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: in general was how we were interacting because.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: A pandemic so and people who are lonely.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of people have been and are lonely during
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: this pandemic.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Right, the US isn't the only country seeing such arise
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: from the Guardian quote. According to Action Fraud, the UK's
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: reporting center for fraud and cybercrime, eight hundred and sixty
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: three cases were reported to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: or NFIB, between November twenty twenty and October twenty twenty one,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: up from six nine hundred and sixty eight the previous year.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: With the total losses for the past year amounting to
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: almost ninety two million pounds. Daters who started online relationships
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: between Christmas and Valentine's Day were the most susceptible, y'all,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: so be careful, with nine hundred and one reports recorded
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: in March twenty twenty one. But they also note due
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: to the shame and stigma around this issue, the.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: Numbers are most likely low.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thinking it's going to be very underreported because
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: they don't want to talk about how they had gotten
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: scammed for being lonely. If that's the case, which is
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: not the case all the time. It's just really got
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: caught up with whoever you thought would be your dream person.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Hm. And you know, now that I'm thinking about this,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I want to know if this is a real thing, listeners.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I think I talked about it in a recent episode,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: but there's a fan fiction I was reading about hiring
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: a fake someone to pretend to be your significant partner
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: during the holiday, specifically so your family wouldn't ask you
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: any questions.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, all we talk about escorts because I know
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: there are actual escorts who can be a service and
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: are legal because it's not part of sex work, which
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: we're not saying is a bad thing anyway. But I
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: know that that has a big stipulation within the federal laws,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: especially like if it's in magazines and such like. There's
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of things, but I think there's escort services
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: in essentially saying we will escort, we will be a
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: partner for you physically, not necessarily sexually.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I feel like those yeah, that might be along those lines.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Interesting. I believe in this fan fiction it was a
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Craigslist ad but mensic and women. Yeah, well future a
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: little bitlist is a little bit, a little bit more
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: like that's going to be a murderer. Be careful, well
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: this is I mean, I guess you could get caught
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: up in That would have been the dark ending of
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that story, because in it, of course they actually do
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: fall in love, but the dark end would have been
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: it's a scam all along bt doves.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I just saw that Netflix has a tender. It's called
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Tender something I've already forgotten. I'm sure our listeners are
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: going to know, you know, about a serial killer I
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: think who met people through online dating.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when I was researching this. That popped up
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and I was like, well, wow, okay.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Slightly different, but okay, yes, yeah, So back to some numbers.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: According to the Irish Times quote in twenty nineteen, about
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: four hundred thousand euros was lost by love sick Irish people.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: With the country in lockdown for much of twenty twenty,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: and people isolated it more lonely than before, that figure
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: jumped to more than one million euros. Again, that's only
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: what was reported. It's become such an issue that some
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: money sending agencies like Western Union are now looking for
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: instances of frauds since they can be held liable. I
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: personally think they should have been doing that all at all.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: But and I know we've made this point already, but
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I just want to drive it home. It's really cruel.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: This whole thing is really cruol. It's really manipulative. A
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: lot of times it weaponizes empathy. I read so many
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: accounts from people who had gone through this and lost
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: all of their money and felt just so terrible and
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: ashamed by it. And like one example, the scammer and
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: told people that their daughter had died and they needed
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: help with the funeral, or that they were being held
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: hostage by loan sharks and tortured, like really intense, emotionally
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: manipulative things, and then after reporting over three five hundred
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: pounds of loss to a romantic scam, a target who
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: was interviewed named Anna, said, I had spent the year
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: completely unstable, trapped in this abusive cycle. I'd become obsessed
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: with preventing his pain. It felt like losing a husband
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: that I loved with every inch of my heart and soul.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I was never going to get any closure or say goodbye.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Ouch, you know, the whole being held hostage and all
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: that thing that really like, there's so many crime shows,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: like entertaining crime shows. I don't mean like you know,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: like SVU level of crime shows that I see that
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: on a wonder like does it really happen?
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: Has that really happened? Do we have cases on.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: That oh worre like it's not a scam, it's actually
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: a thing. Yeah, I'm sure it has. I would imagine
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: it's very low number, right.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Well, because I know we've definitely seen cases and not
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: too many, but some cases where they have two families
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: and they have two different like the men tend to
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: be two different men, and it's always men who have
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: the families, of course, and like I've never seen any
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: cases where it's women. Leading double lives, and there could
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: be many reasons to that, but I've seen that that's
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: a whole different scam in itself.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, having a second family.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: So another woman said, I feel like I've been incredibly stupid,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: but he was so convincing. I am heartbroken and unstable
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: to trust my own judgment. My confidence has been shattered.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: I'm still lonely, but I don't know how I'll ever
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: be able to trust anyone again. As much as I
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: want to forget it, I can't. I struggle to get
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: out of bed to go to work, and there's been
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: many times I you want to end my life. I
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: can't understand how this has happened to me, and I
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: feel like there was a couple of cases where catfishing
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: has ended with someone dying by suicide.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I just that's why I really thought,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: we really thought it was important to put this in here,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: because I do feel like it's the butt of a
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: lot of jokes and we kind of assume whoever fell
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: for it must not be that bright.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: But that's really just not the case.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And I my heart goes out to anybody who's gone
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: through this because I can't imagine believing like just because
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: it was a scam doesn't mean the emotions weren't real,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: right and you didn't feel that way, And it's tragic
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to me that somebody, I mean, everything is complex and nuance,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: but it's tragic. But like that is getting played on
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of that like willingness to love someone, which is already
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: pretty scary, exciting and scary as being turned into this
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: like painful thing where people feel like they can't trust
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: anybody again or they can't love again.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Sad.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: When asked about this, trauma therapist Olivia James said many
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: of us have wounds around our age, appearance, and past
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: relationships that make us susceptible to someone promising love. It's
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: tempting to ignore doubts and see what we want to see.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Sometimes people have an inkling, but the fear of abandonment
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: is too much. Romance fraud is just a more extreme
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: version of something that lots of us have experienced. For
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: some people, there's an element of rescue fantasy too. If
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: they can help this person, they'll be able to live
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: out there happily. Ever after romance James went on to
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: also say that this type of crime can lead to PTSD,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: long term mental health conditions, and financial instability. People feel
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: completely destabilized, they stop trusting themselves or anyone else. We
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: need connections with others, so being betrayed by someone you
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: thought was your soulmate is incredibly hard. She stresses too,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: that the pressure to find the one can.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Make all of this worse, Right, That's what I was thinking, Like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: we've been taught so often that we need a mate,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: that we need that one other that complete us, and
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: that especially for women, that this we are not ever
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: going to be whole unless we are in a couple,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: in a family, and that we are the head, the
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: mother of the household. So there's definitely a layer of
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: social implications to this as well, and the pressures for
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: many of people and trying to find that perfect romance
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: and being told that was our value to begin with.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: And I think especially for women when it comes to
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and I hate this is true, but we all have
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: a relative or somebody as told as or your biological
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: clock is sticking right, So it's like men don't have
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: the same pressure of like the age bearing down on
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: them that women do, where we're like, oh, I have
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: to by this age or no one would ever want
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: to be with me. And that makes me mad too,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: because I feel like it's weaponizing, like if a woman
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: in this case feels like, oh I might never find
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: anybody I'm older and someone is reaching out, like it's
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: playing on that vulnerability too.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Of right, well, well, like I hate it.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I hate it, but I think some people find their
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: worth in that, like worth in people being interested in them, right,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: which again, yes we're taught that, but yeah, it just
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: makes me.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: It makes me mad.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, that's one of the bigod things. I
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's the world I'm traveling in and so therefore
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: men are being called out, So that's what I'm seeing.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: But as of late, there's been an upsurch from what
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: I've been viewing on men calling out women and saying that, hey,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: you need to know your worth and your worth goes
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: down when you get older. You need to know that
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: you're not as valuable because you've had children, or you're
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: not as lovable because you've gained weight, or like.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: All of these things.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: And I've seen that narrative being used a lot, especially
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: in the podcasting world, whereas all men and I want
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: to punch them in their.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: Decks as they deserve it.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: But that's been a thing that's been coming out and
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: during this time of people talking about trying to be
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: more feminists, the way that they rage back and say no,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: you need to be put back into your place is
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: using age, using being single, or using having children and
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: fat shaming as a way to weaponize against women to
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: say that you're not of value if you're not here,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: and so what you get is what you deserve, whether
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: it is actually what we deserve, because we deserve a
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: lot more than what they are saying obviously, right, that
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: was a little bit cyclical on that one.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you should be so lucky to get my attention, right.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: And that's this level of like women, if you really
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: want to be seen as the perfect queen, which that's
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: been a push back too, because women are actually coming
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: to the point of valuing themselves and so a lot
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: of the misogynistic, patriarchal people who have been thriving in
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: that life are pissed, and so this is how they're
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: pushing back because that's the only thing they know and
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: has been used for so long that this is what
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: they've gotten in their back pocket. And I feel like
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: this absolutely totally pushes this narrative to having victims like
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: this and having people who have gone through this, and
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: also changes the narrative of it's their fault because they
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: weren't smart enough to see that they're.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: Not worth it.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And it's such a big pile that has been handed
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: to us and continues to be handed to us. And
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to punch people in the dicks, like
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I said, but anyway, so it's important to note also
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: while most romance scams these days are online.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: They can and do happen in person and oftentimes on phone.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: So I've seen that, like they are going to land
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: lines and using that as a way it's scamming as well.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And we do a lot of
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: the articles we found researching this were about prevention, and
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: it was very That's what kind of gave me at
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: least the scope or the problem of the size of it,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: because like every state in the United States had one,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: like the FBI has their main one, and then like
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: every state as one and countries have them. Or here's
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: how to avoid it, here's how to recognize it. But
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: we did want to share some of those with you.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Right, so if someone you've met online needs your bank
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: account to deposit money, that's a big red flag. Then
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: there's a high chance of using it for nefarious activities.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: As a reminder, also, I think there was a big
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: conversation about like things like Venmo and any of those.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Little cash apps.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I believe cash app maybe a little more safe than
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Venmo and PayPal. I'm not for sure that there's this
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: debate about it and who uses what, but I know
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Venmo has been criticized because that's linked to your bank
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: account and a lot of people have been using it
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: to get money from them and then like linking in
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: and thinking that this is for you know, oh my right.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Boo needs this for gas. But there's a lot of
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: things to that.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Too, right, Yeah, I mean that's another episode we've done
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: in the past of like financial abuse, and that's also
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: a piece of this. But yeah, the FBI has a
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: few tips on how to avoid becoming a victim to
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: your romance scam, so be mindful of what you post online.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Scammers can take this information to manipulate you privatize all
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: your settings. I know this isn't really related, but I
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: just went through because I saw I saw an article
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: about how like your TV is spying on you.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And I went through and made.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Well, I have my Alexa here yea and they the
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: newer versions have actually cameras on it, and I had
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: to turn that off because I was like, what is this?
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: As well as the sidewalk sharing and apparently you can
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: just people passing by can get on it somehow, and
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I'm like, why would I want this?
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: And that's a feature they were very proud of. Still confused,
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: but why I would want that?
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: By Samsung Watch that I know that has a lot
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: to like not necessarily video, but like it can still
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: link to my bank accounts, it got, it's got. You
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: can put a card on here if I wanted to
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: to pay with it, I know that could be a
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: link to it too.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: But yeah, really weird.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's what we are.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so try to There's plenty of articles about like
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: if you here's what you need to do on your phone,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: your TV, like everything, So look that up, do your research,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: see if the person in question has any as an
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: online presence. Search the picture, the name, the bio, and
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I know that feels kind of cyberstockery, but it's.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Kind of the unfortunate reality.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of us do that when
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: we're online dating anyway, especially women, because we've just been told, yeah,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: you might be murdered.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Remember images can be super imposed over faces and video calls,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: so sometimes you will actually have a video call somebody
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and it's not actually their face. Also, remember that many
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: scammers work as a team. As they introduce you to
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: their friends, the friends are in on it too, so right,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that's also unfortunate because I always felt like, oh, here
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: are the friends.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, that was almost a tell tell.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: But to be fair, I'd also be like, Okay, you
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: can tell a lot by other friends, and if they're shady,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: they are probably shady. So asking questions and be cautious,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: that's always good. Don't rush into anything and don't let
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: yourself be rushed. And I do want to do a
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: future episode about love bombing because that's also one of
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: the big signs that we need to talk about.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: But like why why you?
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: And this, yeah, going into if something's too good to
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: be true, it probably is. If someone pressures you to
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: leaving a dating app or social media app soon after
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: contact in order to communicate directly, be wary if they
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: shower you with I guess a lot of affection of
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: emotion very quickly.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: Be worried.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: This is called love bombing. Like I said, I do
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: want to come back to it and the basis of
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: this because I was like what, Because it seems to
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: be linked to a lot of abusive relationships in general?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Also be wary if the individual tries to isolate you
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: from your support group, or if they ask for inappropriate
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: photos or financial information that could be used to blackmail you.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: If promises of meeting in person are repeatedly broken, ask
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: why don't send money to anyone you've only interacted with online,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: even if you made first contact. Do not let your
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: guard down if they are overly flirtatious or complimentary, or
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: if your picture looks like that of a model.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Ask questions.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: If you suspect you are the target of a romance
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: scam starts, have a few tips. Stop communicating with the person.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Immediately talk to somebody you trust about your concerns.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Do a search with job titled like US Army scammer
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: or oil rig scammer to see if other people have
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: similar stories. Search the profile of this picture too, Google
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: is your friend on this? I will google everyone.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: As a social worker.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I came close to be like, I need to do
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: a psychological evaluation on all my dates.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I kind of.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Anyway, if you are sent money or a gift card,
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: you can report it. You can also report scams to
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: the FTC here in the US, I do know with
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: a crypto and NFT. It's only become recent that federal
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: investigators have come involved because of the scamming.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: There was a huge one we.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Didn't talk about because it was led by a dude
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: who scammed a giant network of people, got millions and
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: then like did a pseudonym and no one could catch them.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Really really funky. And then there are support groups and
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: resources out there that you can get onto, and I'm
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: betting there's a lot of group of women who understand
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: and this and what has happened to them.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's I know there's a lot of
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: isolating and shame around it, but there are resources out
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: there that are great, and there are people who are
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: open with their stories. And I always feel like we
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: say this and it makes me sad to know that
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: there are so many that have experienced this, but I'm
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: glad that there's support happening right with people who have
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: experienced it. And also this is kind of outside the
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: scope of this episode.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: This whole cycles.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: It's very complicated and nuanced and like who is doing
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: the scamming and why they are doing the scamming, and
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: it's worth discussing that part of this piece as well.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's outside of this this episode for now.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: But with that said, if you are happy val I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: Anti happy anti Valentine's Day.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Everyone, Yeah, stay safe online, uh, and we love you.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: We love you, It's true and we.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Also love hearing from you. So if you would like
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: to contact us, you can. You can email us a
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: stephanda mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: at Stuff I've Never Told You.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks. It's always to our super producer.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: Christina, so much love to you.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, and thanks to you for listening, Steph, I Never
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: told you. The protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: from my heart Radio, is it the heart radio app,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to favorite shows