Latest / The Retirement Navigator / Episode 17: Feel Behind on Retirement? The Napkin Math for Ages 50, 60 and 67

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Episode 17: Feel Behind on Retirement? The Napkin Math for Ages 50, 60 and 67 · The Retirement Navigator

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Retirement Navigator, the podcast for adults 55 and above who are ready to make the next chapter their best one.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host Kwame Kwade, co-founder of Next Chapter Media and adjunct professor of finance at Johns Hopkins University Kerry Business School.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Almost everyone I talk to has some quiet worry about money.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Am I behind?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people are afraid to sit down and actually look at the numbers.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: So today we are talking about what retirement readiness really means, the decisions that matter, and what you can still do starting now.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Joining us today is Jana Heron, an award-winning journalist who has spent two decades covering money at the Associated Press, Bankrate, USA Today, and Yahoo Finance, where she was a senior columnist.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Earlier in her career at the AP, she covered the housing collapse and she broke the robo signing scandal, the foreclosure story that ended in a$25 billion settlement against the five largest mortgage services in the country.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: She is also the co-author with Kerry Hannon, who has appeared on this podcast of the book Retirement Bites, a Gen X Guide to Securing Your Financial Future, which is named one of Wall Street Journal's best books on healthy aging.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Jana, thank you for being on the Retirement Navigator Podcast.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am really excited to have you here.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you have worked for some very influential um financial and and publications, uh, the AP, um, USA Today.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um having interviewed people about finance and looking back at your work over the years, what have you learned now that you did not know then?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like what do you believe now to be true that you did not believe when you started this line of work?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was uh when I was at the Associated Press, I was covering housing, and so I I spoke to a lot of people during um the the financial crisis.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of people are losing their homes to foreclosure.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it really, and I was a young reporter at that point, and it really put a made me really think about people's finances and also what outside macro factors affect people's finances, and it's not necessarily all about making the right choices individually, but there are so many larger things that are going on um in the end, you know, in like either housing industry or policy that makes a really big difference um on your finances.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about like personal finances, I don't think it's as personal as people would like to think.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of bigger factors that play into it, and you can make a lot of good choices, but still things can, you know, kind of go wrong.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, people were losing their houses because the you know, mortgage market was not being regulated as much as it should have been at that time.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's kind of like my big overview look at finances that it uh personal finances, that it's not just on the individual, but it is uh more holistic in there are systems in place that can help you or hurt you.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think that's really important to think about.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um doesn't mean that you're out of control.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it just means that um it's not all on your shoulders either.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um personally, one of the things that I learned coming out of the covering the housing crisis and seeing so many people lose their homes, what I took from that was I uh when I buy a house, I'm definitely gonna put 20% down so that I have a lot more equity in my home.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so it would be a lot harder for me to be underwater.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I did do that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also paid off my mortgages early.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you could ask a lot of financial people and they would say that's maybe not the best financial move to make to optimize your money.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: But for my peace of mind, and after talking to so many people who lost their homes and how devastating that was for their families, I was like, I just need to own this.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that was something that came out of that that made me do something personally in my life uh different than maybe I would have.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about the, you know, this is the first time I'm actually hearing about that, and it makes sense that you know, personal finance is not so personal.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, there's so many outside factors that can, you know, influence um um and and also affect negatively your finances.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see any of those outside factors forming now in in today's environment, just based on observation?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you you see us heading down a similar path?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh maybe not exactly the same path, but I do see um, like if we wanted to talk about like the housing market, for example, um the the big problem with housing now is that there's just not enough homes um for the households that are forming.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that is because after the housing crisis, um there wasn't as much building.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh bigger factors play into that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it uh a lot of regional builders went bankrupt after the housing crisis.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then also a lot of like local governments um put in a lot of zoning rules and made it much harder to build.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so part of the reason why we have this supply crunch is because of those bigger factors, and it's not and that makes it harder for someone who wants to buy a home, build equity, you know, you the your house usually becomes one of your biggest, if not your biggest asset.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that really affects people's finances.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there's not, you know, a first-time homebuyer can't just go out there and be like, well, let's but build a whole bunch of homes so I can buy one.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's a factor that's out of their control.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I'm also hearing is that some people are frustrated that the baby boomers are not willing to sell or interested in selling, but I also think that retirement is changing, you know what I mean?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's longer, people are living well longer.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we also have the hangover from um if if they still have a mortgage, we have a hangover from the low interest uh era that people don't want to give up.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you put all that together and and and and and that could be a small part of the reason why we also don't see a lot of inventory.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to move to um you know, you wrote your your book, uh Retirement Bites, a Gen X guide to securing your financial future.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so one of the in researching for this podcast, one of the things that I learned is that the oldest Gen X is gonna be 61 this year, and I think a lot of people don't realize that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um so because you know, people everybody their whole focus is on the baby boomers, but the youngest baby boomer is gonna be 62 this year.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes sense that the oldest Gen X is gonna be 61.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So can you talk about what that means, you know, for those people who all of a sudden find themselves on the the the the the the top of the age range for you know, even though when people think about Gen X as they're thinking about you know 40s, you know, you know, 50s, what does that look like?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of retirement are they walking into?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the old at least with older Gen Xers, statistically speaking, they are more likely than the younger Gen Xers to have pensions, but they're not gonna have pensions like their like baby boomers did, or even the generation before that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so they are kind of the beginning of the do-it-yourself retirement generation, um, the generation that really had to put away money into 401ks.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but those who are older, you know, those four and 401ks were not really around until the 80s, and then there was no education around it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So people didn't realize that they needed to really sock away money.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they may have started a lot later, and so they didn't have as much time to build up that big uh nest egg.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah, I right now those Gen Xers are staring at some very important decisions.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, they're one the oldest ones are one year away from being able to take uh social security early, and that might seem interesting to some people, but they do miss out on getting a much bigger social security benefit if they wait to 65 or I'm sorry, to 67 for for uh Gen Xers, and and then waiting again to 70 is even a bigger benefit.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a that's a big decision that they're gonna have to make.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially if they lose their jobs and they feel like, well, maybe maybe I should just go ahead and retire.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But then again, you also have to wait until 65 before you're you can get Medicare.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to talk about that, I want to come back to to that because you know in the next 10 years, that's gonna be a huge factor with all the changes that are happening in the economy.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: But one data point that jumped out of me is that one in four Gen X's have no retirement account at all, and 21 million still carry student loans.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's a scary number.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of numbers.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So how did the entire generation end up this exposed?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it was a generation that was caught between two different types of retirements, and one that was more dependent on pensions and companies providing those pensions and staying with a company for you know 20, 30 years and doing it yourself, and meaning that you have to put it away in a 401k, you need to put it into an IRA and letting it compound.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And let's see how that works.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And is it gonna work out for us?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And did I put enough away?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of a confusing time um when Gen Xers probably needed to know that they had a socket away.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the interesting thing is that these stats for millennials and Gen Zers um who are younger than us, uh they started saving earlier for their retirement and they put more away, a larger percentage of their um paychecks away.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they got the message, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're still worried about it, but they got the message at least earlier.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So my my my you know, that you make an important interesting point about just that era where you know the lack of education or enough education, and then you do it yourself or do it, you know, versus automatic um things like pension.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in terms of when you look into the future about the experiences of the people that you've talked to, from a policy perspective, what can be done to bridge that gap?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like if if they're looking at solutions, because the moment you tell people that they should self-select and do something, especially when it comes to money, you know, a lot of people find it hard to do if it's not automatic for them, you know, because you also put that on the background of emergencies happen, things happen, and then the money that they're supposed to do, if they have an option to put into an account and do this, what would they do?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when things are forced on you, like a pension where like you know the company, even if the company is taking part of your money and putting it somewhere, it's a much different proposition.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think there is a solution to that, or this is the future we're staring at?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I do think there's some policy things that could be helpful.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and there have been changes um since like the 80s and 90s.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, there was automatic enrollment that really started in the mid-2000s, um, where companies could automatically enroll new employees into their 401ks, and they can auto-adjust your uh auto-adjust up or auto-increase your contribution every single year.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And these things help.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the big problem though is when you know you don't stay at an employer for as long as you as generations before, right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you might be there for four or five years and you're deciding you're going to the your next uh opportunity.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so what what do you do with that 401k, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: You should just kind of roll it over into another retirement account, but so many people get very they look at that money and they're like, oh, I could take it and maybe do something else with it.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we should do that renovation or whatever, you know.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's called leakage, where money comes out of those retirement accounts, and it's too easy for us to get into that retirement nest egg to use for renovations, to use for uh uh student loans or all kinds of things.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so we are often borrowing from ourselves, uh, our future selves.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you look at other countries in the world that have uh uh uh whose retirement systems rank much higher, but still have like a can't kind of like a 401k system, they have much stricter rules about being able to take money out.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that brings me to um wealth transfer.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um the great wealth transfer.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain what that means?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And for my audience that is on the other side of that equation, um, what should they be doing if they actually want to help their kids, older kids, you know, take advantage of this opportunity instead of getting eaten by taxes and fee and family fight.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: What has been your experience with that?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have actually written a couple of stories for Barons and Market Watch about like you know, how to gift to your kids and things like that, and what think about because it's a big emotional situation too, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if there's you know, if there's multiple children in the family and you know, if someone's keeping score.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the so Gen X is supposed to actually benefit the most from this wealth transfer um from the older generations, uh, millennials or second, and then Gen Z.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the question is is like when are we gonna see that money?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And a couple there are a couple things.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: One, a lot of it is uh held by higher income people.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna just be higher income people giving their higher income children money, you know.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not gonna be like this huge like distribution of wealth across the generation.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's also like when is this gonna happen?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what what's the timing on it?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so some families, some parents are helping their children already.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: We we hear about um parents helping children with down payments on their homes, and this is part of that great wealth transfer.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe those children are thinking they're gonna get a whole bunch more later, but at the time, that's helping them get a foot in the door when it comes to housing.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe uh parents are using that to pay for college instead of a child taking on loans.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you are seeing those that transfer happen in different places.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: It might not seem like this big, oh, why am I not getting this huge hundred thousand dollar check?
• 16:51
  unknown: Right.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I mean, that's what people were thinking, that's what it's gonna look like.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: When it's like, I'm sure parents are like, well, I did give you a hundred thousand dollar check, it just went to your college.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of a lot of people in their 50s and 60s have quietly convinced themselves that they are behind when it comes to preparing for retirement.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how should someone honestly assess where they stand right now?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in your reporting, what have you seen people do that move the needle this late if we want to consider this as late?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think first is like just getting an honest uh look at what you have and what you don't have um and what you need.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people just like are like la la la la la, you know, they don't want to know it because it's really scary, um, and it's easier to just ignore it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But here's like a very simple way to do it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you're like 50, you need about six times your annual salary saved.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, if I say if you're 50, yes.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're 60, it's eight times, and then if you're 67, it's 10 to 12 times your annual salary.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another shortcut is assume that you need about 70 to 80 percent of your salary in retirement, um, and times that by 25, and that should be like your total amount that you should have.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um retirement bites, our book actually goes into it a little bit deeper.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because there's all these, like there's definitely like ARP and Vanguard all have these retirement calculators and you punt put in all this stuff.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: But if you just want to do a really quick um you know, napkin math kind of thing, that's one way to do it.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say go to the Social Security website and find out, you can sign up and you can find out how much your benefits are gonna be based on your current earnings.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, for example, so if you think so, say your annual income is a hundred thousand dollars, and you are assuming you're gonna need eighty thousand of that, but Social Security is gonna be thirty-six thousand, then you just then you need eighty thousand minus thirty-six thousand.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I give myself hard numbers?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's 40 something.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's 20 something.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um anyway, so that's how you can kind of gauge, and then you can then you have you know how much you need, then you look at your retirement counts, but you have saved in other accounts and add that up and see like how far away am I from this particular number.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you're in your 50s, you can you have catch-up contributions that you can do in your retirement accounts, so it's more than just the annual limit that everybody else has to um it's uh follow.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So then you can just up your contributions at that point.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um the second part of your question, what is like the biggest Yeah, like my you know, you you hit on it that you know what you what you have and what you need.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit about what you have?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people, when you you know, they they can understand what they need, but like assessing what they have can be also confusing.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that include?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you want to look at uh everything that's in your 401k, IRA, any retirement accounts, uh, any other savings, like if you have any like investment accounts, like an e-trade account or something, what do you have there?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what do you have like in in you know, treasury bills or like uh you know, I bonds were a big thing a couple years ago.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: You might have some of those, and then what do you have in your savings?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's also good to assess how much your house is worth uh minus how much you owe on it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right um and once you get all those figures, you also have to kind of uh you know subtract out any kind of other debt that you might still have to deal with because that's part of it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so you put all that together and it's like what is what is that number?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is my net worth here that can be used?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because your house, you can tap your house, you know, in different ways.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and you know, a very common way is people downsize when they uh get older, uh, because one, it's easier maintenance, two, you don't have the kids home anymore, you hope.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah, so you can get a smaller place and get the leftover equity uh to use for for what you uh for your retirement.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you have any kind of pension, some people might.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of you know, municipal workers do get pensions.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then Social Security want to also factor that into it as well.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk a little bit about that?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Social security.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Security, Medicare, that timing, retirement is now longer.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I saw a data point where the average person back in the 60s, when she turns 65, you probably had like 11 years to live if you're a man, 13 years if you're a female.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's much, much longer.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's much longer.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean, especially since you know, we still keep seeing you know the longevity marker grow and grow, which is positive.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: People are living well and living longer.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Positive.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: But then it means that your money has to stretch longer.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what are some of the things, especially when it comes to retirement benefit, you need to factor into that?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think one of the things you really need and to think about is your long-term care costs.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh this is when you get very old and you need some help somehow, you know, and it could be as simple as you need people someone to be taking you to the grocery store because you can't drive anymore.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: It could be um, you know, you just need help getting out of bed and getting dressed.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't really like to think about this part of life, but it does it does happen.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if especially if you live longer, it it probably will happen.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the thing is is Medicare doesn't c cover those costs.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so right now what a lot of people end up having to do is spend down all of their assets to qualify for Medicaid.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And to so Medicaid will cover those costs.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say what you need to do is talk with an estate attorney because there are ways to um shield some of your assets so that you can um qualify for Medicaid earlier.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um because there's this rule in many states called the five-year look back rule.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if uh you if you are all of a sudden needing Medicaid and you decide I don't want to, you know, I have all this money, I'm just gonna transfer it to my child, Medicaid's gonna come back and look and see that happen, and it will look back for the five years prior since you came onto Medicaid, and then you you would have to pay them back for whatever they covered.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you definitely have to think ahead of ahead to make sure you can qualify for Medicaid.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is a also a policy political thing, and so a lot more people are talking about long-term care because the baby boomers are getting older, and I do think it's gonna become a bigger topic of conversation as families have to deal with this more.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so then maybe the government will step in and say, let's create a something, some other long-term care insurance.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: But right now it's really just Medicaid, unless you have long-term care insurance, but that's very, very expensive.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want I want I want to, you know, because I brought a lot of guests on that have talked about, you know, that whole dynamic of um people don't know that Medicare does not cover long-term care.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think if you pull 10 people out there randomly, especially if they are younger, they don't know that.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that and then also understanding of long-term care insurance and how exorbitant it is, and and and and how you know you have to have a lot of uh money to be able to afford even a decent one.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to you have to like cross your fingers that then sure is gonna be there when you doesn't go bankrupt, right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's this is the other thing that's very scary about it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to shift gears to the trends that you're seeing in retirement, you know, and in in personal finance specifically.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Over the last couple of years, there is a shift happening.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that it's a narrative between people who feel like they cannot get ahead versus you know people who just feel like, why, you know, why bother?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know, the housing market is different.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people are carrying student loans deeper into old age now.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are the trends that you're seeing that my audience, especially the ones that are coming up, should be thinking about?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I do think people are working longer.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um in today and in the in in retirement.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's two there's two reasons for one is because they have to, because you know, they just need to make that a little bit extra money to make it work in retirement, even though they're not fully retired.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I also with people who have more money and are more secure in their uh retirement preparedness, you're seeing people doing like kind of a step down, or uh they get to a certain point where like, okay, I want to maybe be a consultant, or maybe I want to try this new career, but like more part-time, you know, like you're seeing people thinking about um staying in the workforce, but doing it on their terms.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think you're gonna see a lot more of that because partly of need, but also um because people are living longer, they just they have more energy, right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: They still wanna they still want to have colleagues and friends and and things like that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it that retirement idea of you just go to the villages in Florida and play golf, it may not be what you're gonna be seeing from Gen X and from the generations um younger than us.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to return to your book.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what made you write the book?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what what are some of the things you want to get across to your audience um who are facing a very interesting um financial landscape that was completely different from what the generation before have been have been experiencing?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason we wrote the book, and I had a co-author, Carrie Hannon, and she was my reporter, I was her editor at Yahoo Finance, and we we had she had written a couple of uh articles about Gen X and retirement, and based on a lot of surveys that were starting to come out, that they're just weren't prepared.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it just those articles were very popular.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: There were a lot of people writing in saying, Oh, this is me, this is me.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so it seemed like there was a big need for that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of like you know, this generation doesn't get talked about very much.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I agree, you know, like I mean, be one of them, I agree.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on the younger end, yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: But there's the baby boomers, and then you know, um, there is a book called Broke Millennial, you know, like that's like that's a whole thing.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then everybody's starting to talk about Gen Z, and you're just kind of like, well, what about us?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you could see that there was that need.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then for me personally, I am Gen X, and this is what my friends are talking about.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is what my, you know, my sister and my brother are talking about.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is this is top of mind.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can I retire?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have enough?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: What is enough?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is retirement gonna look like?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why we wanted to tackle that now.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we also thought it was an interesting generation because it is the one facing these this change in the retirement landscape.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, interestingly, I think I had carry on.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think you did, yes.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you're gonna know well, you mentioned that I'm like, I have I don't know the name.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what was so then what what is the big takeaway that you want to really get across?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are some of the things that they can those listening right now um can take with them as they prepare?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because as I said in the beginning, you know, it was surprising to me, but it makes sense because I have been covering the baby boomer generation, and I know that the old the youngest is 62, tending to this year, and I didn't it didn't click for me that the then the oldest Gen X is gonna be 61, almost ready for social security.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, what what message are you trying to get to them?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you still have time.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the best way to to start is to really get a good idea of your cash flow now, like what is how much money is coming in and how much is going out.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So then you know exactly what you have to work with.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I also love looking at your spending because it shows you what you prioritize in life.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it helps you figure out like maybe this is I should spend money on this.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you like to go out to eat with friends because you enjoy being with friends, but maybe I shouldn't buy this new dress, you know, because uh I'm not that big into fashion.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it helps you figure out like where you can cut back and what's important.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's like, okay, maybe instead of going out to eat with my friends, maybe we have, you know, I invite them over, or we have a potluck or something that's a little bit cheaper, or but still you get what you want out of it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because money is just kind of a vehicle to do the things that you want to do.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing where yourself and looking at your spending really reveals that, um, especially if you're a couple, uh, because what you prioritize might be different.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's good that you guys know that and allow each other to have those things, you know, right.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, without getting mad, why is she spending on shoes again, you know, or whatever.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: What is go ahead?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think you should just really get a handle on what's coming in and what's out, and then uh the first thing you should tackle if you have it is debt, especially credit card debt.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because your interest rate is so high and it's compounding working against you.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's just it's a is a dream killer, as Carrie would say, by the way.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I know we've we've covered a lot of ground here, but um, I also want to go to, you know, is this something that you wanted to talk about today that I didn't ask you about?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things that I got from this book uh reporting on it is just we talked a little bit about Medicare and just healthcare in general, but like your 40s and your 50s for your the younger Gen Xers, this is the time when you can make some big changes in your health that will save you money down the road.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you guys, people out there, I have my my blood pressure went up.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was very upset about this situation.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I had always had low blood, but blow, low blood pressure.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: But to keep it from going to being much worse to like heart failure, I got onto some medicine and I'm regulating that and you know, watching what I eat and things like that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh same thing with people who, you know, my husband takes a statin um for cholesterol, but all these little things are gonna start cropping up.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you address them.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is the time where you can like course correct your health uh and it will help you down the road.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I am I'm so glad you brought that because I had a similar experience with blood pressure.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of those people who did not know what a good blood pressure was because it was never an issue.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just go through check it, like, oh, it's good.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe three years ago, all of a sudden it just like crept up.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I ignored it for a while, and then I went to a conference last year, and I was in 190 something with our some scary number randomly that I checked, and that was a court course correction that I needed to really pay attention, get on the medication, and also make the lifestyle changes I need to make to cause correctly because I I thought you know, I never had it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it here?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't taking it seriously.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm glad you brought brought that up.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of the the the last question I have for you um is you know when you look at when you look at Gen Xers um getting into you know this broad age group, one of the things that people don't think about is that there is also a burden, uh not a burden, but also the responsibility, financial responsibility of taking care of their aging parents.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the sandwich generation, which you know, silently, even though we don't get a mission in March, we're also in that sandwich generation where you have dual responsibility of taking care of your own children, and then you also have to deal with parental.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything in your reporting that has come up on how people can begin to think about that?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because all of a sudden it's a thing that creeps up on people, and all of a sudden they have to deal with that, and then it becomes not only a logistical challenge, but also a financial um challenge.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um communication before anything happens, before talk to your parents and ask them uh what their financial situation is, if they're you know, if they're willing to share that, um, enlist siblings to help on this front as well, because you're gonna need them.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh if if the if the yucky stuff hits the fan, uh emotions fly, and it's gonna be really, really difficult.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So initiating those conversations, and it's not gonna be one conversation, it's not like we're gonna sit down, we're gonna have the big conversation.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's really just kind of first testing the waters, um, maybe asking your parents, like, what do you think if if you need help later on, you know, especially if there's somebody in in your family or their friend group that maybe they broke a hip or something, it's like, how would you deal with that situation?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Who would you how would you would you be financially okay to be able to get somebody to come in?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need me to help you?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you need to know what they're capable of financially and and also emotionally, um, so you can make those decisions.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if their plan is, I'm gonna rely on you, you you gotta know that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right early, right, early.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, what is that gonna look like?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, we've you know, I've had this situation dealing with uh an aging parent and in in a health situation, and it can be really difficult.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it can really strain relationships between siblings as well.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because some siblings want to jump in and help, some want to take a back seat, some um want to make all the decisions.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you just it's good to have those conversations before anything happens because once it happens, it becomes very difficult to have those conversations in a reasonable, rational way.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, thank you.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um Hannah's book is The Retirement Bytes, co-authored with Kerry Hannan, uh a Gen X Guide to So Securing Your Financial Future.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for those guys who are listeners to this podcast, you can go back and listen to um Kerry's appearance also.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the book right here looks like that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's all it's all connected now.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, thank you very much for coming on the Retirement Navigator Podcast.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed our conversation.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And to our listeners, thank you for spending part of your day with us.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I hope this conversation was very insightful for you as I learned a lot out of it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: If today's conversation was helpful, be sure to subscribe to our retirement navigator podcast so that you don't miss future episodes.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can also find more retirement guidance and resources through our website at benefitsinsider.co.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are looking for connection and support during this phase of your retirement, I invite you to join our school community on the school platform.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the Benefits Insider Circle.
• 38:35
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• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's our daily show with about three minutes of inspiration, encouragement, and wisdom every morning that can help you get your morning set up right so that you can also win your day.
• 38:54
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• 38:58
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• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.