Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 57– Jaideep Dudani - CEO Ouro Medicines

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Episode 57– Jaideep Dudani - CEO Ouro Medicines · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:05
  So welcome back to the episode of the Bio Hub.
• 0:08
  Today, we're delighted to welcome Jaideep Judani, a
• 0:11
  scientist, biotech entrepreneur and investor at the cutting edge
• 0:14
  of immunology. Jaideep is the founding CEO of
• 0:17
  Aura Medicines, who pulled off an incredible 120 million Series
• 0:21
  A round in January and Auro or a company pioneering next
• 0:25
  generation T cell engagement therapies designed to reset the
• 0:29
  immune system in autoimmune diseases.
• 0:32
  Jade. It's also a principal at
• 0:33
  Monographic Capital, where he helps incubate and grow
• 0:37
  transformative life science ventures.
• 0:39
  And before Oro, Jadeep was part of the leadership team at High
• 0:43
  Bio, where he helped drive the strategy behind the portfolio of
• 0:46
  precision immune modulators before their acquisition by
• 0:49
  Biogen. So join us today as Jadeep will
• 0:53
  give us a run through his journey or a medicines exciting
• 0:56
  new data as well as building companies from the ground up.
• 1:00
  So Jadeep, thanks so much for coming on.
• 1:02
  How are you? I'm great.
• 1:04
  Thanks for having us. It's been it's a real pleasure
• 1:07
  to talk to you. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09
  And it's a pleasure to have you on as well.
• 1:12
  So look, let's start off with your path into biotech.
• 1:15
  So can you walk us through your journey from academia to venture
• 1:19
  and now founder and CEO? Yeah, sure.
• 1:25
  It hasn't been a master plan. Let's start with that.
• 1:27
  I think that's important to to say from the back.
• 1:30
  You know, I'd originally thought I'd stay in academia.
• 1:33
  So I did my PhD in bioengineering and I really
• 1:37
  enjoyed the work, enjoyed being in the lab.
• 1:40
  I thought maybe I'd become a professor.
• 1:43
  And I enjoyed, love the science. But over time and realized I
• 1:46
  wanted to have a more direct impact.
• 1:48
  And I thought about why I liked academia or the parts of
• 1:52
  academia that I liked. So I'm trained as an engineer
• 1:56
  and you know, for us it's all about the useful application of
• 2:00
  science. And so I always was interested
• 2:03
  in the translational aspects of whatever I did.
• 2:06
  And so that's kind of why I transitioned out of academia.
• 2:11
  And then, you know, the entry into Venture, you know, it's
• 2:15
  again, wasn't planned per SE. You know, I got a bit lucky.
• 2:18
  I was in Boston at the time, and I ended up being the first
• 2:22
  associate at Vita Ventures in Boston.
• 2:25
  And that was when Vita was just starting.
• 2:27
  So they, you know, we're managing 100 or a couple $100
• 2:31
  million in, in capital and now they're managing over 1.5
• 2:34
  billion. But it was great to be there at
• 2:36
  the beginning. And I learned then, you know,
• 2:39
  how to turn these scientific ideas into real medicines and
• 2:42
  real companies. I mean, that was really
• 2:45
  informative. And what was interesting as you
• 2:49
  kind of have the same principles of academic science, but there's
• 2:53
  so much more complication, right, Because you had people
• 2:56
  and, and corporations into the mix.
• 3:00
  And from there it was, it was a good time.
• 3:02
  So, you know, I was lucky to be working with great folks like
• 3:06
  Fred Cohen and Ari Balderbrand and other folks at Vita.
• 3:10
  I had the opportunity to help, you know, do some company
• 3:12
  building work. And so at Vita, we started a
• 3:15
  company called Kyberna, which is now using CAR T cell therapy for
• 3:19
  autoimmune disease and kind of got excited by that whole
• 3:23
  prospect. So I took a little bit of a a
• 3:25
  detour out of venture into a biotech company in Boston called
• 3:29
  Relay Therapeutics. And it was great to then go from
• 3:32
  investing to inside a company and kind of see both sides of
• 3:35
  the same coin essentially. And, you know, once I moved back
• 3:41
  to California, you know, went back to company building again
• 3:46
  and helped build a company called Ibio that you mentioned
• 3:50
  and now Oro. And, you know, I just kept
• 3:53
  following whatever got me excited.
• 3:55
  And when something really compelling came along, I, I
• 3:59
  found a way to be a part of it. I think an advice that I got
• 4:02
  from my PhD advisor was you can try to plan as much as you want,
• 4:06
  but you're going to make the best decision you can at the
• 4:08
  moment. And so just keep doing that as
• 4:10
  opposed to trying to create, you know, a 10 year vision per SE.
• 4:16
  Very good and Oro are tackling autoimmune diseases in a very
• 4:21
  novel way. Give us a run through like where
• 4:24
  did the idea come from specifically OM336?
• 4:28
  Where? Where did that come from as
• 4:30
  well? Yeah, I think you, you
• 4:32
  highlighted in the beginning right At Oro, our goal is to
• 4:35
  enable immune reset. What that really means is these
• 4:40
  deep durable remissions in autoimmune diseases without the
• 4:43
  need for lifelong immunosuppression, right?
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  These these are patients with chronic immune disease.
• 4:47
  They always have to take steroids or they're cycling
• 4:50
  through antibodies every couple months.
• 4:53
  And so the idea is to try and give them a therapy that can
• 4:56
  give them months or years, if not longer period where they
• 5:01
  don't really have the disease, right?
• 5:04
  And the name Oro itself comes from the Oroboros.
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  If you look at our logo, it's the snake eating itself.
• 5:11
  And this is an ancient symbol of, you know, renewal and
• 5:15
  rebirth. And so we, we went through quite
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  a bit of different naming schemes to reflect that.
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  But really for us, the name is the mission.
• 5:26
  And it really just resonates with what we're trying to do for
• 5:30
  us. You know, this is for, for me, I
• 5:33
  guess a journey that sort of goes back to Kyberna, which I
• 5:36
  mentioned earlier, right at Car T for Autoimmunity.
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  And you know, along with the experience that got at high bio,
• 5:44
  which is long with plasma cells, right, it's the key cell source
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  that produces the auto antibodies that 'cause these
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  diseases. So essentially combine these two
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  ideas, right CAR T cells, but the target longer the plasma
• 5:56
  cells that we did at high bio and that's kind of the the
• 6:00
  merger of those two resulted in Oro, you know, with the CAR TS,
• 6:08
  you know, so OM336 is a, is a antibody, right?
• 6:11
  It's called AT cell engager the same idea as a CAR T really you
• 6:15
  take T cells and you would redirect the T cells in the body
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  to the pathogenic plasma cells and B cells.
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  And we saw the CD 19 CAR T's working quite well, but they
• 6:24
  weren't hitting these population of cells called CD 19 negative
• 6:27
  cells. And the CD 19 negative cells are
• 6:30
  with the what we think are the true pathogenic driver of
• 6:32
  disease. And you know, we thought BCMA
• 6:36
  was, was a bit of misunderstood. And you know, O 1336 is a BCMA T
• 6:42
  cell engagement we think could actually result in pretty
• 6:45
  remarkable efficacy in, in a bunch of autoimmune diseases.
• 6:50
  And we're developing it in, in rare autoimmune cytopenias, but
• 6:54
  also broadly and the data to date really is showing us that
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  it's, you know, it's basically an antibody injection with the
• 7:01
  potency of a CAR T therapy, but with much better safety.
• 7:05
  So putting that all together is kind of how we formed Oro on
• 7:09
  336. Exciting.
• 7:13
  And you guys recently announced some really exciting new data.
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  What can you share about that and how does your approach stand
• 7:20
  apart in what is quite a crowded immunology space?
• 7:24
  Yeah, Thanks for highlighting that.
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  Just a couple weeks ago, we announced, you know, a New
• 7:29
  England Journal publication with the first clinical data of
• 7:33
  OM336, which is our BCMA T cell engager in autoimmune hemolytic
• 7:37
  anemia. And so this is the first time
• 7:39
  we've, you know, there's ever been publicly disclosed data for
• 7:42
  ABCMA targeted T cell engager in this disease.
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  And you know, there's a reason it ended up in the New England
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  Journal because it was very compelling.
• 7:51
  Essentially what we saw was a short course of, you know,
• 7:55
  subcutaneous, just an injection of OM336 led to deep and rapid B
• 8:00
  cell depletion, including in tissues, not just in the blood.
• 8:04
  The two patients that were reported were really relapsed
• 8:07
  refractory, tough patients. One was a pediatric patient, 1
• 8:10
  was an adult, but they basically got every therapy known to man,
• 8:14
  both standard care and investigational and still
• 8:17
  weren't responding well until they got to OM336.
• 8:22
  You know, one thing that was compelling as well is our
• 8:25
  molecule was engineered to have a wider therapeutic window and
• 8:29
  compared to, you know, the approved agents.
• 8:31
  And we saw due to a detune CD3. And what we saw was there was no
• 8:36
  CRS which decided kind of release syndrome, which is a
• 8:39
  side effect you worry about with these molecules or no icons
• 8:42
  which is a neurotoxic immune, you know, immune toxicity.
• 8:47
  And we didn't see either that in these first two patients.
• 8:50
  So on this tolerability side, it was quite, quite positive.
• 8:55
  On the efficacy side, you know, these two people had very low
• 8:59
  hemoglobin essentially they feel really tired, life threatening
• 9:02
  levels of low, low red blood cells needed constant
• 9:06
  transfusions, hemoglobin normalized within a month and
• 9:09
  patients stated remission at least six months so far.
• 9:13
  And as a reminder, they only got a few weeks of therapy.
• 9:16
  So they get a few weeks of therapy and then they're off all
• 9:18
  therapies. So we think this is evidence of
• 9:21
  that immune reset that we're, we're talking about earlier
• 9:24
  where, you know, the auto reactive B cells now are gone,
• 9:27
  the auto antibodies are stopped, are no longer being produced.
• 9:32
  So really this is just a start for us with O1336, you know, we
• 9:36
  disclosed this data and our intention, you know, with
• 9:39
  hemolytic anemia and another related cytopedia called ITP
• 9:43
  immune thrombocytopenia. But again, this is just a start.
• 9:46
  We're really excited about this molecule and what's compelling
• 9:50
  about, you know, molecules like this, and we saw this at high
• 9:53
  bio is, you know, once you start understanding how to dose these
• 9:56
  medicines, there's, you know, 2530 indications that we could
• 10:00
  go after. And so now for us, it's about
• 10:02
  sequencing growth of this molecule and you know, I think
• 10:07
  that's part of how we approach the world.
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  I think you mentioned, you know, autoimmunity is crowded.
• 10:13
  That's great for patients. Really it's, you know, I wish I
• 10:16
  was the only person sometimes developing a BC Mateesa engager
• 10:19
  because then I wouldn't have to worry about competition.
• 10:22
  But ultimately it's good for patients, right?
• 10:25
  And you know, for us, it's about finding our spots, right,
• 10:29
  figuring out which of these indications we could go after
• 10:33
  and then just really executing and, and moving quickly.
• 10:38
  This early data has been really compelling, you know, and, and
• 10:43
  motivating for the team. And this is something that, you
• 10:46
  know, we keep coming back to like, say, if we are able to
• 10:49
  succeed here and develop, this is the kind of outcomes that we
• 10:52
  can get to. And so that's been, I'd say our
• 10:56
  North Star, you know, it's, it's about execution.
• 10:59
  And so ultimately we're excited to be a part of a group of
• 11:04
  companies working to to solve these diseases.
• 11:08
  We are excited about the molecule and they're working on
• 11:10
  and you know we think the initial clinical data sort of
• 11:13
  speak for themselves and we're going to keep pushing forward
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  and hopefully you know we'll find a path to to differentiate
• 11:18
  and and stand a part in that immunology.
• 11:20
  Space very good, exciting and tell us about the team that
• 11:25
  you've built at Oro. I know when you start any new
• 11:27
  business, those first few hires are are really crucial.
• 11:31
  What were you looking for in those early hires and what makes
• 11:34
  the the team gel or click? Yeah, it's a great question.
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  You know, I where I ended that last discussion was we just got
• 11:44
  to execute and I think that's where we started when we're
• 11:47
  thinking about Oro, you know, execution has multiple flavors,
• 11:52
  right? You need people that are part
• 11:54
  charging, but also recognize that they're part of the team
• 11:57
  and know how to navigate, you know, complex drug development,
• 12:00
  right? There's, you know, no
• 12:03
  individual, no one person that any company can basically do it
• 12:06
  all. And so you have to find that
• 12:08
  culture that allows people to, you know, navigate.
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  So we've built a scheme that really is in the trenches.
• 12:16
  And you know, these are people that have experienced in pharma,
• 12:20
  right? They, they have that, you know,
• 12:23
  they've been part of 10 INDS or 10 phase threes or what have
• 12:26
  you. But at the same time, they, you
• 12:29
  know, almost all of them, I think all of them actually most
• 12:32
  recently were in biotech. And that really is important
• 12:37
  because you know, this is an area where you kind of just need
• 12:42
  to execute and roll up your sleeves and get things done.
• 12:46
  What's interesting is we, you know, obviously we have
• 12:48
  different levels of the company, but we don't really have
• 12:50
  managers here. I guess, you know, no matter
• 12:51
  your title, your hands on. And I think the data, as I
• 12:56
  mentioned are, are really compelling.
• 12:59
  So it creates this play to win mindset.
• 13:02
  And that I think is something that we just keep pushing
• 13:04
  forward towards, right? And you know, how we thought
• 13:10
  about hiring is, you know, there's a few of folks that we
• 13:13
  work with together, you know, previously at High bio.
• 13:15
  And that's always makes life a little bit easier because we at
• 13:18
  least understand each other, right?
• 13:21
  And you understand, you know what, what makes them tick, what
• 13:24
  frustrates them and you try to work through it.
• 13:28
  And then for other folks, we just make sure that, you know,
• 13:32
  they get, that they get, they come here.
• 13:33
  And whether you're VP or the C-Suite, you expect to, if
• 13:36
  you're actually going to do a real work, you won't have a team
• 13:39
  with 10 people to, you know, to orchestrate for you.
• 13:42
  And because of that, we're so super small.
• 13:44
  We're about 16-17 people. And that makes it fun.
• 13:48
  You know, we, we work hard, but no one really takes themselves
• 13:51
  too seriously, which I think helps when things get
• 13:54
  frustrating because you can always just fall back on a light
• 13:58
  joke here or there to, to sort of disentangle frustrations.
• 14:01
  So it's been a lot of fun because of that.
• 14:04
  Very good. You've been involved in building
• 14:07
  companies from the ground up, so high bio now Oro.
• 14:11
  What are the biggest challenges in going from concept to to
• 14:15
  getting into the clinic? Yeah, Oh, great question.
• 14:20
  You know, I think there's I'd say there's two sets of
• 14:24
  challenges. We'll we'll do the first because
• 14:26
  we're just talking about it's people, right?
• 14:28
  People are the funnest part of any job, right?
• 14:30
  You get to hang out with them. You spend a lot more time at
• 14:33
  work than most of us, I think realize, right?
• 14:36
  You're going to spend, you know, 8 to 10 hours a day at work with
• 14:39
  these people, so you better like them.
• 14:42
  But equally, you know, this is just as frustrating.
• 14:44
  Getting that right mix of talent, culture, alignment is
• 14:47
  everything. You know, early on in, you know,
• 14:53
  both at Hibao and Oro, there were 100 different directions we
• 14:56
  could go, right? And until you settle on that
• 14:59
  direction, there's a lot of uncertainty.
• 15:03
  And what you need is to get people that understand that
• 15:08
  uncertainty. And that's sometimes a challenge
• 15:11
  because, you know, sometimes people just like, tell me what
• 15:13
  to do and I'll go do it. But in the beginning, you really
• 15:16
  don't know what you're doing. And so that that's part of it,
• 15:22
  you know. And then I think more recently
• 15:25
  in the financial markets are a big driver of kind of what is
• 15:28
  the scope and the art of the possible, right?
• 15:31
  Back when cost capital is really low, the scope of anything you
• 15:35
  build could definitely be larger.
• 15:37
  Right now the scopes of of the companies we build are kind of
• 15:42
  more narrow, right, just because that's what the capital markets
• 15:45
  would support. So I think that's one area is
• 15:48
  just sort of the people and the external environment.
• 15:52
  And then lastly is the science, right?
• 15:54
  I think you need a right to win and you need a reason to win,
• 15:57
  right? Why?
• 15:58
  Why are we as Oro or we as high bio doing this?
• 16:03
  You know, what makes us the the right company, what makes us the
• 16:06
  right people? Are our insights unique enough?
• 16:09
  Right. And So what I found is been, you
• 16:15
  know, works for me or has worked so far is looking at, you know,
• 16:25
  looking at areas of science where I have a decent
• 16:27
  understanding, but then I find something surprising or just a
• 16:31
  little weird, right? And if you, if you find
• 16:34
  something like that, you just pull on that thread and you try
• 16:38
  to figure out, you know, why is that, you know, surprising
• 16:41
  finding there so that you can actually build a scientific
• 16:44
  company around it. That's just kind of what we did
• 16:46
  with Oro, right? I think I mentioned, you know,
• 16:49
  we thought BCMA as a target was a little misunderstood because
• 16:53
  people had this perception that it was only expressed on plasma
• 16:55
  cells. And when you look at the data,
• 16:57
  it's expressed in a bunch of other cell types, you know,
• 16:59
  memory B cells, you know, included, which is a target we
• 17:03
  wanted to hit or target sell. And so we just pulled on that
• 17:06
  thread and was like, is this real?
• 17:07
  Is this real? Can we can we chase that down?
• 17:10
  And so I think you got to find a reason when you're building the
• 17:13
  company to, you know, exist, right?
• 17:16
  And then find the people that can understand how to take a
• 17:19
  giant, you know, unformed lump of clay and at least make a
• 17:23
  house out of it. So I think putting those
• 17:25
  together is uniquely difficult, especially when there's no money
• 17:29
  around. Yeah, whenever I speak to people
• 17:33
  and ask them that same question, it's always people first.
• 17:36
  Like you could have the best science, best tech, but if you
• 17:39
  don't have the right people that have been there and done it and
• 17:42
  yeah, every single time. So high bio you had to course
• 17:48
  correct As the biotech market change between starting the
• 17:51
  company and really getting it into the clinic.
• 17:54
  What was that experience like and what lessons did you take
• 17:57
  from that into Oro and and future fundraisers?
• 18:02
  Yeah, I, I mean, so we started high bio in obviously like Q221
• 18:09
  and you know, we really completed a license with
• 18:12
  Morphosis and you know, we're in clinical development in like mid
• 18:17
  22. So for those of you that
• 18:19
  remember what the XBI looked like around that time, right, it
• 18:23
  was, it was kind of up and down all throughout.
• 18:26
  So it was certainly a crash course in navigating ups and
• 18:30
  downs both in the markets, but also in, you know, with science
• 18:34
  and with people and launching in a heart market.
• 18:38
  You know, we had these, you know, we had ambitions to build
• 18:42
  a broader platform underlying our programs.
• 18:45
  And, you know, we had some good ideas I think at the time for
• 18:49
  that. But it really just realized it
• 18:51
  really just became that we had to become pretty lean pretty
• 18:54
  quickly, right? And so as we built Oriole, I
• 18:58
  kept that in mind. It taught me the value of
• 19:00
  staying lean, focusing on execution and building a team
• 19:04
  that can weather those tough spots, but also that can weather
• 19:07
  the uncertainty, right. I think again, you know, you are
• 19:11
  hired into a company and you know the company has a vision
• 19:16
  and you're working towards that vision.
• 19:17
  And then the the macro changes and suddenly you're like, wait,
• 19:20
  let's figure out what we need to do.
• 19:22
  That creates a lot of uncertainty for a lot of people.
• 19:25
  And sometimes you can't do anything about it as as a
• 19:27
  leader. And you know, it's frustrating
• 19:31
  for for folks and it's frustrating for me.
• 19:33
  I'd love to know exactly what I'm doing at all times.
• 19:37
  And so that was another important piece is finding folks
• 19:39
  that can, you know, appreciate that not all the answers are
• 19:44
  obvious. And we're, you know, we're
• 19:45
  trying to build that through. And then, yeah, I think it's
• 19:50
  really just again going back to how do we stay laser focused on
• 19:57
  our timeline to value creation with the capital that we have
• 20:00
  and the people that we have and making sure that we.
• 20:04
  Don't get ever caught in a period where, you know, there's
• 20:08
  a big gap between when data is reading out and when, you know,
• 20:11
  when we need to go raise capital because you end up in, in pretty
• 20:15
  tough spots, you know, and, and not relying.
• 20:18
  You know, I think one thing that's for certain is I no
• 20:20
  longer expect there to be a bull market when I'm building these
• 20:22
  things. And that obviously, you know,
• 20:26
  changes how we approach everything.
• 20:29
  Yeah, good. And this is a question that we
• 20:33
  always finish with on the bio hub as well.
• 20:35
  If you were to have dinner with three people past or present,
• 20:39
  who would they be and why? They don't necessarily need to
• 20:42
  be you biotech and pharma folks, although they can if you like.
• 20:45
  But yeah, three people for for dinner.
• 20:49
  Yeah, but I think, you know, I knew you were going to ask me
• 20:53
  this question and I kind of want to change my answer, but I'll,
• 20:57
  I'll tell you what I, what I, what I was going to say and then
• 20:59
  I'll, I'll add a fourth. So as you know, we have a
• 21:03
  newborn, right? He's, he's 10 weeks old.
• 21:06
  So I'd love to have dinner with my wife again.
• 21:07
  It would be pretty awesome to have dinner with her again
• 21:10
  without, you know, not, not that he's a screaming baby at all
• 21:14
  times, but really being worried about baby starting to scream
• 21:17
  midway through a dinner and maybe a nice glass of wine.
• 21:22
  So that would be 1. The other two actually it's,
• 21:25
  it's, you know, you're, you're over in the UK, it's Wimbledon
• 21:28
  right now. So I have to think about tennis.
• 21:31
  So the the next one would be Rodger Federer.
• 21:35
  He just seems to have a really interesting mindset.
• 21:37
  And you know, what's interesting about tennis is I think he, he
• 21:41
  gave some commencement speed where where he sort of commented
• 21:44
  on this fact, but he lost almost half his points that he ever
• 21:47
  played right, right. But he still wins most of his
• 21:52
  matches. I mean, that's I think it just
• 21:54
  tells you that you have to sort of be willing to move on, right?
• 21:59
  Like every, you know, we every day we're you have little
• 22:02
  battles, right? Like, oh, this assay didn't work
• 22:05
  or whatever, but you can sort of keep your eye on the bigger
• 22:09
  picture. And then just because I think
• 22:12
  it'd be really fun to to see what that would be, but you'd
• 22:17
  add like Rafa Nadal to dinner because I think they'd just be
• 22:21
  hilarious together. And then me and my wife would
• 22:22
  just get to enjoy that. And, you know, again, just
• 22:26
  another person that feels like, I don't know, just doesn't
• 22:31
  accept losses and and even even though it seems like he should.
• 22:36
  And so this that mindset is would be interesting to just
• 22:39
  understand how they, it feels like they kind of have to be
• 22:42
  goldfish that like have amnesia after every single point.
• 22:44
  So it'd be, it'd be interesting to talk to them.
• 22:47
  And then I guess my last one, I'm going to throw a bonus one
• 22:49
  is it'd be interesting to have dinner with my son.
• 22:52
  If I could understand what he's thinking right now, that would
• 22:56
  be, I'm sure I'd learn a lot of what's going on in his head.
• 22:59
  But, you know, it'd be. So that'll happen one day when
• 23:03
  it's actually a proper dinner and not him screaming at me.
• 23:06
  But, you know, that's the, that's the fun of parenthood.
• 23:09
  Yeah. We'll look for terrific answers
• 23:12
  there. Congratulations again on on
• 23:14
  having your son. And I think you've given a
• 23:16
  really unique perspective on on the company and pulling off that
• 23:21
  incredible fundraising round and just the data that's coming out.
• 23:23
  I think it's certainly a company that not just myself, but many
• 23:27
  others will be keeping an eye on for sure.
• 23:29
  So look, thanks so much for helping us out with this.
• 23:32
  And yeah, really appreciate the time.
• 23:34
  Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again for having me and
• 23:36
  thanks for the great questions. It's been super fun and you
• 23:39
  know, hopefully we'll keep generating interesting data at
• 23:42
  Oro for people to to get excited about.