Latest / truthunedited / I Called It Responsibility_ God Showed Me It Was Control _Lysa TerKeurst_ Jesus People Podcast EP93

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I Called It Responsibility_ God Showed Me It Was Control _Lysa TerKeurst_ Jesus People Podcast EP93 · truthunedited

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm in constant dread of the worst possible case scenario happening.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: We feel stuck. That's an immediate indication that there's unhealed
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: trauma there.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: What do we do in situations like that where it
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: is literally outside of our control and then you get
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: out of that and that's when the anxiety hits. Is
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: this going to work? Is this not going to work?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: When's the shoe going to drop? You know what I mean?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: God didn't come through for me then. Is he really
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: going to come through for me now? How intense this
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: feeling of fear is.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I'm so curious how you got to a place to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: write something like this. What are some practical things people
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: can do now?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: What memory is this attached to?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: This internal angst and turmoil and fear that what if
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I were to do something like that?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: What are those things that are within your control? What
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: are those things that you can manage really, really well?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Guys, welcome to the Jesus People podcast. We have Lisa
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Turkhurst on the podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so honored to be here.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: What an honor. I mean, you are an OG. You
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: have done so many things for the kingdom of God.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: You've grown Proverbs 31 ministries to the moon. It's pretty
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: incredible to see how many men and women you have
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: encouraged throughout the world. And really what I want to
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: get into is, you wrote this book, Making Peace With
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: What I Can't Control. I was just kind of flipping
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: through this last night and I'm like, holy smokes, this
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: is what the Lord's taught me in the last six
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: years of And I would say four of those years
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: of suffering and wilderness and hardship. And it's maybe the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: most important lesson I've learned in yielding my life. And
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm so curious how you got to a place to
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: write something like this. So could you take us into
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit of what that actually looks like to
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: make peace with what you can't control? And then where
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: did you learn that?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think most people assume when you talk
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: about control issues or you know, someone that's struggling with control.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I think most people assume that the root cause of
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: that is a power struggle. And that was not the
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: case for me. And as a matter of fact, as
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I've done research, that's not the case for a lot
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: of people. You know, you have your typical person who
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: has control issues and they need to be large and
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: in charge and make all the decisions and You know,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: that is definitely a form of control. But for me,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: it wasn't that at all. At the core of what
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I was trying to do and control was part of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: that is that I'm a very responsible person. I'm a
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: highly capable person and I'm extremely caring. And those are
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: great qualities, responsible, capable, caring, but taken too far. they
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: can slip into being controlling, especially if I'm around someone
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: who is not responsible or who has proven themselves less
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: capable than what I hoped they would be. Or if
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: they start to demonstrate things that aren't very caring. And
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: so what happens is fear starts to come in and
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like, Oh my goodness. I'm in a situation where
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: everything really does depend on me because if I don't
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: hold it all together, the wheels are going to come
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: off the bus and everybody's going off the edge. You
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? And so it wasn't that I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: had bad intentions with my controlling tendencies. It's, um, it
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: was actually, I was trying to accomplish good things, but
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I was taking it a little too far. And what
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I mean by that is I sometimes with responsibility, um,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I will do everything I can do to manage that,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: which is within my control. But regarding the ultimate outcome
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: and the word outcomes are really important here regarding the
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: ultimate outcome. I have to learn to trust the Lord.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: If I'm in control mode, here's where I get into trouble.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I'll do everything to manage what is within my ability
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: to control. And then I will start trying to control
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: things outside of my control situations, circumstances, people. And regarding
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the outcome, I'm only willing to accept the outcome that
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I think is best. And we refuse to turn things
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: over to the Lord that are beyond our control. And
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: that is the quickest pathway to anxiety, unrest, overthinking, over strategizing,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: and really getting yourself into an unsustainable pace. Yeah.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I use the pause app by John Eldredge.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And he says all the time, I give everyone and
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: everything to you. And he talks about this benevolent detachment.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: You know, we're coming out of this, this trial, this
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Lindsay Clancy trial, and I've seen a lot of people,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: men and women chaining themselves emotionally to this horrific ordeal.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: What do you make of that? And because I, you know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I I've battled anxiety in the past and a lot
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: of it is I attach myself to other people's pain
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: or situations. Or this, this ambiguous fear of the future
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: of the what ifs of what could happen with my business,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: with my ministry, with my family. What do we do
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: in situations like that where it is literally outside of
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: our control, but we're feeling this internal angst and turmoil
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and fear that what if I were to do something
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: like that? Yeah.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Well, one thing that I think has to be addressed
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: is we live in a very over-informed society right now.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: You know, it used to be people would live out
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: in the prairie and they were aware of their immediate
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: family and maybe the 10 other families that went to
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: church and possibly the shop owner, you know. So they
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: were very limited in worst case scenarios coming true. You know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: typically a person maybe has a worst case scenario once
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: in their lifetime. But now... we are hyper aware of
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: worst case scenarios that are coming true every single day
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: in every possible way. And I think this case is
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: really tapping into postpartum depression, anxiety, you know, and, and
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: also possible emotional abuse and some really weird dynamics that
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: were happening behind closed doors. And so I think the
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: more aware we are, the more we fear that same
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: kind of thing happening to us.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I talk a lot about fear because fear is really
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: an important part. If you're going to talk about control,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: because control is fear disguised as a strength. Whoa. So
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: when we feel afraid and we want to. you know,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: appear strong or we want to take charge, then control
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: is the quickest mechanism to do that.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: So I spent a lot of time breaking fear down
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: in the book and there's four components that make up
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: a feeling of fear. The first one is the alert
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: or the alarm. The second one is memory. The third
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: is perception. And the fourth is either response or reaction.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Now you say those one more time. Yeah. So the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: first is the alert or the alarm. I feel afraid,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: you know, there's nothing you can do about that.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: You know, that that's just going to hit you.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: A bear's coming or a deadline's coming.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Or we open up social media and we read about
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: this court case and all the dynamics that went into
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: play for this extreme tragedy. Or we see weather patterns
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: that have killed people recently, you know, with 9-11, you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: we're so hyper aware of how things happen and what
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: happened and how helpless people felt, you know, just all
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: of that. I mean, we, medical diagnosis, you know, you
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: open up Facebook and you see a friend from high school,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: you know, that now you're same age and they've just
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: been diagnosed with terminal cancer. So we are so hyper informed.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: So that alert or the alarm comes to us and
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: it kind of catches us and like, you know, like that.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: So instantly our brain is going to travel into our
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: memories and it's going to find another time where we
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: felt something similar. And then whatever that memory is, our
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: perception of that memory is going to help us interpret
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: what's really happening in front of us.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Which is why people who have childhood trauma. Exactly.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I'm sure get far more triggered. Exactly.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So perception is the story that we tell ourselves
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: because of the memory that we had. And then however
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: we're interpreting that situation is directly tied to whether we
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: will be able to respond to the fear or whether
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: we will react in fear. And so when we feel afraid,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: obviously these four components of a feeling of fear happen simultaneously.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: So it's not like I feel afraid and now I'm
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: going to break it all the way down. You know,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: it's not that. But we prepare in times of strength
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: for coming times of struggle. And my counselor taught me that.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that's really important to feel the fear.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And then when we have time, take a step back.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: What memory is this attached to? And what story have
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I been telling myself? Because that's going to help me
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: interpret the fear. And if we can tell ourselves a
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: better story, if we can remind ourselves instead of like
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: for me, Um, one of my stories is worst case
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: scenarios always happened to me, you know, or God didn't
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: come through for me then. Is he really going to
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: come through for me now? Um, or people are always
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: going to eventually prove themselves to not be trustworthy. Um, or,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: you know, you just keep getting taken advantage of by people.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Do you see how those perceptions tied to some memories
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: of hard things that have happened in the past are fueling?
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: How intense this feeling of fear is, and then it'll
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: be directly tied to response or reaction. If we change
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: our perception, and here's some ways to change the perception.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: based on what I just said, worst case scenarios always
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: come true. Well, worst case scenarios have come true for me,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: but there are a lot of worst case scenarios that
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: never did. There are situations in my life where it
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: felt as if God didn't protect me from that situation
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: but I can flip that and say I can park
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: my mind on all the times God has proven himself
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: faithful and even during those times where I think God
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: didn't protect me from that really hard thing happening what
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: was God still protecting me from in that situation that
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: because it didn't happen I don't even have it in
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: my memory and And so when we start to shift
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: and change and focus on the faithfulness of God and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: tracing God's hand of faithfulness through our life, we can
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: have a different perception about the memories that we've had
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: in our past, which will help us better interpret the
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: feeling of alert or alarm and help us have responses
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: rather than reactions.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, I want to take a break and I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: want to tell you about a ministry that's really near
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and dear to my heart. It's called Global Christian Relief.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And this is the organization that's going into Pakistan and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: freeing slaves, going into Nigeria and providing support for Christians
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: who have fled Boko Haram and the Fulani and are
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: now living in camps. They're providing food, shelter, medical aid
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: for a fraction of what it costs for us to live.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I'm talking a minuscule amount to take care of our
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: brothers and sisters in Christ right now who are being massacred.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And my encouragement to you would be to give a
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: small monthly gift. There's a link in the description or
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: in the show notes. please click that link. Support your
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: brothers and sisters in Christ who are being killed right now,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: who are being ostracized right now, who are being enslaved
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: right now. And know that Jesus said, whatever you did
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: for the least of these brothers, you did for me.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: So you bless Jesus on this earth right now through
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the persecuted body. It's so good. It sounds a lot
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: like neuroplasticity. It sounds a lot like creating different neurological pathways. Yes.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: It's a lot about that. And You know, I've done
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: some EMDR work too. And if you're not familiar with that, like,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: And in the moment.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's a reprocessing therapeutic tool. And at first,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: when someone told me about that, I was like, this
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: is crazy. I'm way too logical. This is never.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Going to work for me.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: It does. But it's amazing going back and revisiting things, um,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: situ situations, circumstances, um, Where I didn't have the insight, maturity,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: and wisdom that I have now. I didn't have it
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: at the time. And so I was stuck in the
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: way that I looked at it then. So now, using EMDR,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I can go back and revisit those situations and use
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the wisdom and the insight and the experiential knowledge. you know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the experiential goodness that I have now, and I can
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: reprocess those hard things and connecting the two sides of
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the brain, you know, so that I can bring some
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: more logical thought into what before, um, was a very
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: stuck feeling stuck is always a trauma word. So if
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: we feel stuck, that's a, that's a immediate indication that
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: there's unhealed trauma there. Yeah.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: And for anyone that doesn't know what EMDR is, so
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: EMDR is basically getting your brain using bilateral simulation to
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: go right brain, left brain. So this can happen through
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the eyes, looking right, left. If someone kind of like
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: waves a finger in front of your face, which is
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: where it gets kind of feeling like hippy dippy or
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: like tapping, you do tapping. Um, and basically what it
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: does is trauma gets stuck in the brain. And when
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you process something while moving right brain, left brain, right brain,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: left brain, either through eye patterns or through body tapping
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: or something, it helps that get unstuck. I slept for
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: 24 hours, literally. after I did my first EMDR, I
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: slept for a day. They were like, is he dead?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: And it's, it's powerful stuff because it can actually allow
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you to process the things that have happened to you.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So that brings me to my next question. What led
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you to a place like this? What, what is your story?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: So, um, my story is I was married almost 30
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: years to my first husband. We had five kids. We
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: raised the five kids. Um, We had what I thought
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: was a really beautiful family. And then about 20 years
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: into our marriage, some things started to shift and I
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: didn't understand. I thought that they were shifting because the
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: kids were in such great transition. Um, you know, some
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: kids were going off to college, some kids were knee
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: deep in high school. Um, and then one of our
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: daughters was young and trying to, we were trying to
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: figure out homeschooling with her. And so there was a
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: lot of factors that I could attach these weird feelings
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that I was getting from my then husband to, well,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: we're just in a big time of transition. Also, you know,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: we were approaching, um, you know, our late forties. And
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: so midlife crisis also pops into your mind, you know,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: all of those things. And the, what was really happening
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: is that there were some addiction issues that got stirred
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: up in him. And eventually he was living a double
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: life and I wasn't aware of it. And so the
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: extreme heartbreak that came in realizing my life was, was
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: not at all what I thought it was. Um, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: it put me into this place of just panic mode.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I did everything I could to save my family. Um,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I stayed five years, um, and worked on the marriage
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and worked on the marriage and worked on the marriage,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: gave so many second chances. Um, we separated and got
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: back together and renewed our vows and separated again. So
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: it was a very long traumatic journey.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Over how many years?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Um, this was over, um, just about a 10 year span.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So it was really, really hard. And I, you know, when,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: when I then walked through a very unwanted divorce, um,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I just, I felt so hopeless and I just felt
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: like the bottom had fallen out of my world Um,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: and I wasn't sure I was going to be able
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: to stay in ministry. I was terrified at the impact
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: that this would have on my kids. You know, I looked,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: looked forward to this beautiful legacy that I thought we
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: were creating. And now, I mean, that felt like it
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: was in shambles. And so, um, there was a lot
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of healing work that I had to do. And eventually, um,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I did the healing work and I started in this
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: process of, of getting better and actually, um, enjoying my life.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And then fast forward several years after being alone, I
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: got remarried. I met and married a wonderful man and
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the kids were doing much, much better. I was allowed
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: to stay in ministry. And so I finally reached this
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: place where I was like, finally, all the pieces are
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: coming together. And I also noticed I was more anxious
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: than I'd ever been in my life.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: And I think the reason is because things were good
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: and I was terrified of them getting bad again.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Ooh.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And so any little hint that things would go awry,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I would do my part and I'd want to do
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: other people's parts. And I'd want to make sure to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: keep the whole ship steering in the right direction. I'd
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: had my trust broken over and over and over. And
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: so it was very hard for me to trust people.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And when you don't trust people, oftentimes you'll try to
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: control whatever situation you're in with the people that you
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: don't trust. And so the anxiety reached a point where
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I found myself dreading my life more than I was
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: enjoying my life.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: And you're a Christian leader at this point.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Teaching the Bible, loving the Lord, loving my
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: people in this happy season of, you know, rebuilding and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: starting a new marriage and just very, very grateful. But
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: because things were good and I had been used to
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: things being hard and bad so long. I was just
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: terrified that they were going to fall apart again. And
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: control became my coping mechanism.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I want to take a quick minute and tell you
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: about a devotional book that I just wrote. It's called
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  Speaker 1: The Gratitude Reset. And the reason why I'm so passionate
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  Speaker 1: about this book is because all of the lessons I
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  Speaker 1: learned in the battle that I had with anxiety are
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  Speaker 1: now put into this book. All of the scriptures that
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  Speaker 1: I could find on anxiety all came back to one solution,
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  Speaker 1: and that was prayers of gratitude. So in this devotional book,
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  Speaker 1: you're going to get those scriptures. You're going to get
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  Speaker 1: a lesson. But then you're also going to journal out
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  Speaker 1: what you're grateful for. You're going to journal the burdens
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  Speaker 1: that you're going to give to Jesus because we're called
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  Speaker 1: to cast our cares onto him. because he cares for us.
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  Speaker 1: And then you're going to pray for others as well,
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  Speaker 1: because anxiety is inward focused. Instead of looking at others
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  Speaker 1: and saying, how can I bless them? How can I
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  Speaker 1: get my mind onto serving people? And then you're going
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  Speaker 1: to jot down notes that Jesus gives you. So I
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  Speaker 1: would love it if you could check this out. The
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  Speaker 1: link will be in the show notes, or you can
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  Speaker 1: go to thejesuspeoplemovement.com slash thegratitudereset. That makes sense. That's a
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  Speaker 1: really interesting thought to think that many of the Christian
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  Speaker 1: leaders that people are looking at are still dealing with
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  Speaker 1: a lot of their own stuff. And for you having
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  Speaker 1: gone through complex trauma of 10 years of, is this
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  Speaker 1: going to work? Is this not going to work? When's
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  Speaker 1: the shoe going to drop? You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 1: And then you get out of that and that's when
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  Speaker 1: the anxiety hits. I can relate to that on so
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  Speaker 1: many levels. Like, okay, this is, things have been falling apart.
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  Speaker 1: Like our pet's heads have been falling off to quote
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  Speaker 1: and dumb and dumber for so long. And now everything's working.
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  Speaker 1: When's it not going to work? I feel that now
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  Speaker 1: I feel that like I'm going to seize and of
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  Speaker 1: blessing where things are working for me right now. And
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  Speaker 1: I still have this fear. I had the fear from
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  Speaker 1: being honest with you. I had the fear of moving
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  Speaker 1: from Dallas to Tennessee now of being like, well, maybe
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  Speaker 1: it just worked in Dallas. Like I told my coach
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  Speaker 1: that the other day, I'm like, I'm a, I'm scared
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  Speaker 1: to leave Dallas because things were good there. What would
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  Speaker 1: you say to someone that, that has that fear of like, you,
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  Speaker 1: you talked about some of the stages of that anxiety
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  Speaker 1: and kind of like telling yourself a different narrative. But
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  Speaker 1: what are some other practical things people can do now
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  Speaker 1: if they're like, man, I'm in constant dread of the
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  Speaker 1: worst possible case scenario happening? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Well, words frame our reality and mental health is a
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  Speaker 2: commitment to reality at all costs. So I like to
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  Speaker 2: do what's called journaling toward reality. And so you could
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  Speaker 2: literally open up a journal and you could write what
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  Speaker 2: is your reality right now? And then what are those
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  Speaker 2: fears that you're having because of your reality right now?
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  Speaker 2: And then make a list of these are the things
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  Speaker 2: that I can do to be responsible, capable, and caring
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  Speaker 2: in this reality right now. So what are those things
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  Speaker 2: that are within your control? What are those things that
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  Speaker 2: you can manage really, really well? And focus your energy
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  Speaker 2: right there. Then you're going to also have to say,
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  Speaker 2: and these are the things that are outside of my control.
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  Speaker 2: But I hope for the best, you know. But list
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  Speaker 2: out things that are beyond your control, you know. You
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  Speaker 2: cannot control whether or not that business partner is going
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  Speaker 2: to stay, you know, faithful to the financial arrangements that
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  Speaker 2: you have. Can't control that person.
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  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 2: But what you can control is you can manage your
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  Speaker 2: money really well right now. You could get some contracts
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  Speaker 2: in place so that you have legal documents that protect you.
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  Speaker 2: So spending our energy where we can control certain things
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  Speaker 2: will help us be responsible without crossing over into being controlling.
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  Speaker 2: And then the last thing that I would journal is
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  Speaker 2: I would journal prayers to say– Lord, this is what
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  Speaker 2: I must hand over to you. I don't like it.
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  Speaker 2: It makes me scared. I'm just going to be honest
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  Speaker 2: about that. But here are some things that I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to hand over to you and then get into God's
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  Speaker 2: word and write out scriptures that address God's faithfulness in
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  Speaker 2: those situations. And also, what is God's instruction in those situations?
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  Speaker 2: I love to take verses like that. And I love
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  Speaker 2: to write the verse down. And then I love to
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  Speaker 2: break the verse down into these areas. Where am I
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  Speaker 2: making progress with this verse? Where am I digressing in
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  Speaker 2: this verse? You know, going backwards. What does the enemy
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  Speaker 2: want me to do with this verse? What does the
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  Speaker 2: Lord want me to do with this verse? Now, what
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  Speaker 2: do I need to confess? Because I am aware of
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  Speaker 2: this verse. And then is there some forgiveness that I
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  Speaker 2: need to seek? Um, either because I've done something or because,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it's, it's been something that's been done to
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  Speaker 2: me that I just need to forget. And so that
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  Speaker 2: helps me put my brain into active mode in a
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  Speaker 2: productive way. Otherwise I think anxiety is a whole lot
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  Speaker 2: of energy with nowhere to go. And so if that
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  Speaker 2: is anxiety, and I believe it is, then how can
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  Speaker 2: we use that energy instead of sitting in these anxious feelings,
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  Speaker 2: but use it in a productive way?
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  Speaker 1: And how, how do you do that? It's, it's, it's
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  Speaker 1: the journaling, it's the casting the cares onto him.
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  Speaker 2: It's the, yes, it's all that I just talked about.
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  Speaker 2: And then also having productive conversations with other healthy Christians
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  Speaker 2: who've been through some stuff. You mentioned just a bit ago, like,
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  Speaker 2: you know, you're still a leader and you were dealing
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  Speaker 2: with anxiety. If there is a leader, they say that
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  Speaker 2: they have no current ongoing struggle. That is a leader
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  Speaker 2: I'm afraid of because that means that they, they have
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  Speaker 2: reached some place of perfection that honestly scares me worse
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  Speaker 2: than the leader who admits that they're working on stuff,
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  Speaker 2: you know.
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  Speaker 1: Or they're not on the edge of discipleship to be
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  Speaker 1: kind of scared about what The Lord's calling them to do.
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  Speaker 2: That's a great point, too.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So I think putting our energy into the productive things
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  Speaker 2: that we can do really well is important. Remember, we
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  Speaker 2: said stuck is a trauma word. Sometimes when we get
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  Speaker 2: filled with anxiety, we'll stay stuck. And we come in
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  Speaker 2: tune with the things that we cannot control. And we
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  Speaker 2: spend so much energy there that we become irresponsible with
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  Speaker 2: the things that we can control.
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  Speaker 1: That's good. Well, guys, making peace with what I can't control.
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  Speaker 1: Like I said, I was flipping through this last night.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, I think me and my wife should read
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  Speaker 1: this together. This is so good. We're going to have
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  Speaker 1: the link in the show notes or in the description. Lisa,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for your wisdom.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for this book. I think it's going to
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  Speaker 1: bless so many. It's just great to meet you.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. Likewise.
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  Speaker 1: Guys, thank you for tuning into the Jesus People podcast.
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  Speaker 1: We will see you next week.