Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Love Scientist Dr. Gary Lewandoski Discusses Sex, Attraction, Make-Ups, Break-Ups

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Love Scientist Dr. Gary Lewandoski Discusses Sex, Attraction, Make-Ups, Break-Ups · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Welcome back to misunderstood.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us again. I'm Rachel. You could
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: tell your host today. We're going to talk about something
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: that affects everyone listening relationships and why they are so misunderstood.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Whether or not you are single in a committed relationship
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  Speaker 1: or something in between quite messy. relationships are something that
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: affect all of us and we want to know more about.
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  Speaker 1: So today we're going to find out why they're so
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  Speaker 1: misunderstood and why we have so many questions about them
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  Speaker 1: and why we can't seem to figure them out. Is
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  Speaker 1: it something that is just pure destiny, something that we
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  Speaker 1: can find online in a bar, or is there something
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  Speaker 1: that is a scientific study behind it? So we're going
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to answer questions like, is there something behind happiness? Is
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  Speaker 1: there something to why we should break up with somebody?
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  Speaker 1: Are there red flags we should be looking for? And
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  Speaker 1: I have somebody really fabulous here who's going to answer
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  Speaker 1: all these questions. Dr. Gary Lewandowski is here. He's going
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  Speaker 1: to talk to us on the science of relationships. He's
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  Speaker 1: an award-winning professor, researcher, writer, and he's an expert on relationships.
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  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. Rachel, thanks so much for having me.
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  Speaker 1: So the first thing I want to ask is out
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  Speaker 1: of just sheer curiosity, how did you get into this
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  Speaker 1: line of work?
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  Speaker 2: It was actually kind of an accident. As an undergrad,
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to be a clinician. Like a lot of
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: undergraduate psych majors, I wanted to help people. I wanted
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: to listen to people's problems and solve all the world's
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  Speaker 2: problems one person at a time. But then I did
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  Speaker 2: an internship, decided I did not want to do that anymore.
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  Speaker 2: And then I talked to my undergrad advisor and she's like, well,
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  Speaker 2: what is it that you like? And like most college
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  Speaker 2: students that are guys, I'm like, well, I like relationships.
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  Speaker 2: And I just kind of offhandedly said, but you can't
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  Speaker 2: study that. And she said, well, yeah, you actually can
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  Speaker 2: study that. And, and, and the rest of my career
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  Speaker 2: has been born from that.
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  Speaker 1: So did you suffer with any successful or non-successful relationships
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  Speaker 1: of your own in the past that made you want
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  Speaker 1: to do this? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, like, um, I had a little, it was
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  Speaker 2: a mixed bag, right? Like, so I definitely had some successes.
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  Speaker 2: I had some misses, I had some losses. Um, You know,
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  Speaker 2: but like any college guy, like I spent most of
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  Speaker 2: my time trying to figure out how to get into relationships,
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  Speaker 2: how to get out of some, how to just kind
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  Speaker 2: of like navigate, you know, what do women really want?
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  Speaker 2: What do they not want? And it was a struggle,
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  Speaker 2: but it was like one of those things that I
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  Speaker 2: was always really curious about and I like thinking about.
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  Speaker 2: And so now I have just like the perfect career
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  Speaker 2: for that. I get to be nosy into people's lives.
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  Speaker 2: I get to ask them about like what might be
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  Speaker 2: the most important part of their life. and get to
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  Speaker 2: learn about kind of what makes people's relationships tick, which
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  Speaker 2: I find fascinating.
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  Speaker 1: And explain how there is a psychology behind it. How
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  Speaker 1: do people actually study relationships?
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  Speaker 2: Sure. So relationship science, it's something I've been doing for
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  Speaker 2: over 20 years. It's a complicated thing because when you're
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  Speaker 2: talking about relationships, you're talking about more than one person.
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  Speaker 2: And so relationship science is one of those areas where
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  Speaker 2: we use probably every method under the sun to learn
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  Speaker 2: about people. And so we'll ask people self-report questions. We'll
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  Speaker 2: do interviews. We'll even run experiments and randomly assign some
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  Speaker 2: people to go on date nights and other people not to.
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  Speaker 2: We'll even put people on MRI machines to see what
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  Speaker 2: their brain's doing when they're falling in love. And so
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  Speaker 2: there's lots of different things that we can do. But fundamentally,
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  Speaker 2: all research starts with a question. And so As long
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  Speaker 2: as people have questions about relationships, which frankly seem endless,
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  Speaker 2: we're always going to have things to research.
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  Speaker 1: But now how do you look at the people from
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  Speaker 1: like a ground zero perspective? Because some people just, like
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  Speaker 1: I said from the beginning, have a bad picker like me.
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  Speaker 1: I'm a love addict, right? So I come from a
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  Speaker 1: different perspective than somebody who might be really well-rounded and
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  Speaker 1: grounded and come from a totally different perspective than they
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  Speaker 1: have a different trajectory.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good question. You know, one of
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  Speaker 2: the things that we have very much to our advantage
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  Speaker 2: when we're approaching this from a scientific perspective is we
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  Speaker 2: just have sheer numbers, right? So rather than asking one person,
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  Speaker 2: two people, or even 10, we'll ask hundreds of people.
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  Speaker 2: And so once you start asking hundreds of people about
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  Speaker 2: any question, really, you're going to get a full range
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  Speaker 2: of people, you're going to get sort of like, most
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  Speaker 2: people are going to be average, and they can have
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  Speaker 2: people out at the edges. And so you're going to
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  Speaker 2: have some people who are really good, some people who
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  Speaker 2: struggle a little bit, but most people are going to
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  Speaker 2: fall somewhere in the middle. And so When we're doing
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  Speaker 2: relationship science, and again, science of any sort, what we're
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  Speaker 2: really looking at is what makes most people successful most
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  Speaker 2: of the time.
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  Speaker 1: And have you found there's a difference in love in
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  Speaker 1: your 20s, let's say, and difference in love in your
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  Speaker 1: 40s and 60s?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, 80, 100. Yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: there's going to be some small differences. In particular, as
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  Speaker 2: you age, as you mature, your preferences and how you
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  Speaker 2: fall in love change somewhat, right? So you're going to
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  Speaker 2: focus more on non-physical qualities and more on personality and
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  Speaker 2: character and compatibility. That said, you know, the similarities far
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  Speaker 2: outweigh the differences. And so what people are looking for
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  Speaker 2: in a relationship at 18 is largely what they're looking
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  Speaker 2: for in a relationship at 80. You know, I've been
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  Speaker 2: doing some relationship coaching over the last year, and it's
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  Speaker 2: with a full range of folks in their 20s all
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  Speaker 2: the way up into their 70s And it's striking to
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  Speaker 2: me how the issues that the 70-year-olds encounter are some
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  Speaker 2: of the same issues that the 25-year-olds encounter. And particularly
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  Speaker 2: for women, it's, I want a guy who's taller than me.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that is one of the most common bonds
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  Speaker 2: that it seems like all women have across the age spectrum.
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  Speaker 1: You think height is a big factor, really?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I would not have thought that, but
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  Speaker 2: it turns out to be one of the biggest factors.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you talk to people who are doing a
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  Speaker 2: lot of online dating. One of their biggest pet peeves
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  Speaker 2: about men on online dating sites is just that they
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  Speaker 2: lie about their height because men kind of intuitively know
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  Speaker 2: that women find men who are six foot and taller attractive.
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  Speaker 2: And so according to the women that I coach, you
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  Speaker 2: hear them saying, you know, this guy says he's 6'1
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  Speaker 2: and he shows up and he's 5'5. And so, you know,
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  Speaker 2: you get some of that for sure in the world
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  Speaker 2: of online dating.
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  Speaker 1: Well, but that might be that they're just more angry
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  Speaker 1: that they turn out to be a liar than that
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  Speaker 1: they're shorter than tall, don't you think?
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  Speaker 2: It's definitely a combination of both. You know, there's several
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  Speaker 2: women who, you know, are with guys who, you know,
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  Speaker 2: when they describe their relationship with this man, it's literally perfect.
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  Speaker 2: It's everything you would want in terms of compatibility, fun.
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  Speaker 2: He's a good listener. He's dedicated to personal growth and
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  Speaker 2: learning about her and supporting her. I mean, it checks
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  Speaker 2: every box, that relationship. And then you say, well, what's wrong?
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  Speaker 2: Like what's, what's going on? And she said, well, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed to say, but he's, he's on the short side.
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  Speaker 2: And so, you know, you definitely have that dynamic as well.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's, that sounds like it would be a shallow girl.
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  Speaker 1: So that's interesting that you say that though, because when
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  Speaker 1: I was in my twenties and I remember girls in
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  Speaker 1: our twenties, so I was working at Bloomberg News in
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  Speaker 1: my 20s. And I had a career. I was very driven,
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  Speaker 1: very resourceful. But I do remember, and all my friends
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  Speaker 1: were as well, and I remember all of us were
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  Speaker 1: looking for a husband. And that was our goal, to
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  Speaker 1: really find a successful husband that worked on Wall Street,
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  Speaker 1: Because those are the guys that we were meeting, right?
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  Speaker 1: But the goal was to get married and have a kid.
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  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking and talking to the girls and
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  Speaker 1: they were all saying, oh, we're getting so old. And
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  Speaker 1: we were in our early 20s and girls in their
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  Speaker 1: late 20s were saying, oh, we're getting so old. We
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: haven't met anyone yet. And feeling like that was too
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  Speaker 1: old and they were aging out of finding a guy.
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  Speaker 1: And then when these girls did get engaged, they would
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  Speaker 1: quit their jobs. and kind of lose their sense of
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  Speaker 1: self and become very unhappy. And later on in life,
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  Speaker 1: when you get into your 30s, I think you do
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  Speaker 1: realize it's really important to keep your job or to
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  Speaker 1: find a sense of self because it's not just about
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  Speaker 1: losing your identity to a guy. And it's really important
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  Speaker 1: to keep your sense of self because you want to
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  Speaker 1: come home at the end of the day. And the
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  Speaker 1: man wants to come home at the end of the
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  Speaker 1: day and find you attractive for some other reason than
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  Speaker 1: making dinner or looking good from going to the gym.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, don't you agree? I mean, I found that
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  Speaker 1: my qualities were not superficial as I got older. I
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  Speaker 1: wanted a guy who had a job, who found me
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  Speaker 1: interesting for having a job as well. Do you know
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  Speaker 1: what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, Rachel, you're speaking my language, right?
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  Speaker 2: In terms of, you know, my own research is on
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: how your self-concept, who you are as a person impacts
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: your relationship. And so when you're talking about maintaining your identity,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: having your own identity, those things are absolutely important. And so,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: you know, just to be clear, I mean, those women
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: who are worried about height, I mean, they absolutely shouldn't be.
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  Speaker 2: I think they're also worried about some other things too. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, keeping their identity and all that kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 2: But I think, you know, I mean, have you ever
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  Speaker 2: heard people say this idea, you know, it's a very
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: romantic notion and it comes from a movie, but it's
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: like this idea of like, I love my partner because
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  Speaker 2: they complete me. Right. There's this idea of like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: finding a partner that completes you, that fills you up
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  Speaker 2: like that is the ideal. And just frankly, I think
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: that's like one of those blind spots.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with? they have
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: It's Dune-A-D-L.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Where? Dune-A-D-L.
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Lift? Please.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: You going past Kimmage?
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: No.
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Dundale Cars.
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
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  Speaker 2: I talk about a lot of blind spots in my book, but, like,
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  Speaker 2: this is one of those things where it's... Your partner
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  Speaker 2: shouldn't complete you. You should be a complete, full, glorious
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  Speaker 2: person all on your own. Your partner's there to cheer
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: you on, highlight your strengths, support you, all of those
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: types of things, right? It's not that you have some
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: hole in you that your partner needs to complete in
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: some way. Right.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that becomes so dangerous, right? Because if you're having
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: a bad day, it becomes your partner's mission or problem
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: to fill you up. Or if your partner fails in
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: some way or is having a hard day or needs
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: to be filled up, you can't sometimes be there for them.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: So when you make it somebody else's issue to fill
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: you up, you run into all sorts of issues. So
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I completely agree with you on that. I mean, you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: really have to figure out yourself. to be able to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: be okay for someone else. I mean, I've only learned this, listen,
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  Speaker 1: I'm almost 50 now. So I've learned this through the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: course of my life and having really bad relationships to
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: be able to get into good ones. And I still
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: haven't figured it out. Every time I'm in a relationship,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I learn more and more to be able to try
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and have a better one. You know, so which brings
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: me to, you know, my next question, which is what
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: are the qualities of a successful and healthy relationship? Because
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I think people want to know how to look for
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: those signs because it's hard to find those when you're
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: like really navigating these people.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, you know, I mean,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: of the many questions that I consider like million dollar
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: questions when it comes to relationships, that's certainly one of them.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know, what does a successful, what's a good partner
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: look like? And so That can be a very complicated answer,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: but the easiest way to answer that is your relationship
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: partner should be your best friend. They should have all
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the same qualities as a best friend. And so it
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: should be somebody that respects you, cares for you, supports you,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: is caring and kind. It's somebody who you're comfortable with.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: It's someone you can be yourself with. It's this sense
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: of companionship. You like spending time with them. You share
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: laughter together. You just have all these mutual shared interests.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You're supportive. you're very compatible. And so we all, I mean,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: when you say that, it's like, oh, of course we
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: want all those things. But I just don't think that
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: when people are actually initially looking for partners, they're optimizing
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: or emphasizing those traits. And so that's, I was going
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: to say, that's the mistake people make because, you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't be trying to date and plan out your
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: relationship for the next weekend or the next month or
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: even the next year. It's like, You want to think
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: 50 years into the future. And so relationship scientists have
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: actually asked what they consider to be like expert couples.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: And so these are folks who have been together, happily
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: married for 15 years. And they ask them, so what's
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: the secret? What's, what's the thing that has helped you
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: guys stay together? And they say the number one reason,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: number one is my partner is my best friend. And
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: the number two reason was I like my partner. I
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: like my partner for who they are. And you just
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: think like, how many relationships have you seen where it's
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: like they're together and And they have like a certain
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: physical thing between them, but there's not much beyond that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And that is not a relationship that's going to last
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: 50 years.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So, but that's really interesting because I, I, there's two
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: parts to my next question. So one has to do
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: with sex, but the other has to do with really
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: liking your partner. I, and I'm speaking from experience here.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you get into relationships that. And you find that
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: you end up wanting to change them, right? Or you
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: nitpick things or they nitpick your things. So you get
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: into a relationship with somebody that you think you like
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: at the beginning and maybe they're putting on an air
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: about who they are or they want to put on
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: their best face forward, right, for you because they really
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: like who you are. But then all of a sudden
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you ask them to change this and you ask them
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: to change that. And they, you know, all of a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: sudden you're fighting about little things. I mean, you know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you actually don't like who they
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: are and you're asking them to change. How is it,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: is it okay to ask someone to change? When is
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it okay to ask somebody to change? Will someone change?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Ooh, lots of, is it okay to ask? I don't
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: even know if it's okay to ask. I mean, I
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: think the ideal relationships are where You and your partner
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: like each other for who you are almost unconditionally. Now,
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  Speaker 2: that doesn't mean there's not going to be things that
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: annoy you. There certainly are. That's inevitable. But to ask
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  Speaker 2: your partner to change is a little presumptuous. It's a
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: little presumptuous to think that you know what's better for them.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a little self-centered in the sense that you're
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: asking what's best for you, and that may not be
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  Speaker 2: what's best for them. Now, all that said, it's hard
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  Speaker 2: to change. Right. I mean, so whoever you're dating has
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: a two decade, probably at least head start on you
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  Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, how their personality has been formed.
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  Speaker 2: And so the work you're going to have to do to,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: you know, turn your partner into like a fixer upper
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: partner 2.0 version of themselves. It's a lot. And, you know,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of times the people who are
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: engaging in that fixer upper kind of approach to their partner,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: that's a convenient way to put your focus externally onto
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: somebody else so you can ignore what's going on with yourself. Sure. Right.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, like that savior complex of like,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I am going to help them. Are you though, really?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Because are you qualified to do this work? A lot
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: of times you are not. And a lot of times
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the way that you attempt to help people is is
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: not super helpful. It's nagging and complaining and sighing and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: using a lot of like subtle, what you think are
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: subtle nonverbals. And it's like, that's just not the way
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to help people.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: And probably triggering of their parents or something.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to annoy somebody, you can
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: do a lot of those things, right? And so then
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: you wonder like, I'm trying to help him and why
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: is he pulling away? Well, because what you're trying to
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: do is annoying, right? And it's fundamentally unfair.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of times you're thinking about what you
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: want to fix in your partner. But then if your
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: partner said to you like, hey, you're great. I love you.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I really do. Except I would love you to change X, Y,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: and Z. Your reaction rightfully so would be like, who
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the hell are you? How dare you?
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And so that's something we just don't do nearly enough
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: is like kind of flip the perspective and try to
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: see this request from our partner's eyes. And then we'll
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: start to realize, like I said, it's a little unfair. Right.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: And actually, that just made me think about my friendships
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that are platonic with girlfriends. I don't ask them to change.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I love them for who they are. And they might
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: annoy me with something. And I just kind of shut
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that out or tune it out. And maybe I don't
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: talk to them for a day. And I just let it.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Go, right?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: But if it's a boyfriend... It's like the end of
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the world, right? And I end all be all and
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I break up with them or whatever, you know? So
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I guess you really have to think about who you
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: want to be in a foxhole with and if it's okay,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you know? There are some things that I am okay
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: with and not okay with, you know? I don't date,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you know, people who are addicts. I don't date liars,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: you know? There are certain things for certain people that
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: are okay and certain things that are not okay for
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: different people.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting you bring up your female best friends because,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is no more supportive relationship in the
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: world than two female best friends, right? I mean, like
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: they will each swear that the other person is the
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: literal best person, best human on the planet. And so,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: you know, if you think about like what's a model
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: relationship for your romantic relationships, it's a female best friend.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: A romantic relationship, the ideal is what female best friends have,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: but someone that you find physically attractive. That's really the ideal.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And so what happens with those female best friendships is
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you're kind of talking about some of the things that
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: annoy you and just kind of let go. There's different
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: levels of things that bother us. They're the absolute deal breakers.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Like you said, like dating someone's an addict, that's a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: deal breaker. Then there are things that are like preferences.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Like I'd prefer to date someone who's more of a
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: night owl or a morning person or someone that sleeps
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: on a certain side of the bed or doesn't snore.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Those are preferences. And those, you know, you can kind
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: of like give, give and take some of those. And
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: then a lot of things really should just fall in
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the third category, which is what Logan Urie calls a
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: permissible pet peeves. And so those are just like, I
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: don't like how you load the dishwasher. I don't like
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that you're a little bit messy and the standard leaving
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the toilet seat up kinds of things. Those stink, but
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, who cares at the end of the day?
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: If you're doing all those other best friend things, you
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: can let a lot of things go.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Right. And then to get back to what you were
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: talking about before, where there are couples that you see
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: them and you know they're having a lot of sex
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and you think, oh, wow, they're just in the best
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: relationship ever. Are they though? I mean, is there a
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: magic number for how often people should be having sex?
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Does that mean they're in the best relationship ever?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: It often does not mean they're in the best relationship ever.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And so what's interesting about sex is that we pay
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of attention to it because it's easy to count.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And what's easy to count, we start thinking is really,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: really important. And so you can count on your, like
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: how many times you and your partner have had sex
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: in the last week or last month But it's hard
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: to really count all the times they were supportive and
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: listened to you and made you feel like a better person.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: We have a hard time keeping track of that stuff.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So we give a lot more importance to sex than
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: we probably should. That said, everybody does kind of want
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to know, am I having as much sex in my
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: relationship as I should? And so the empirical scientific answer
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: to that is there really is a magic number. And
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that number is once a week. So as long as
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: partners are having sex once.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Where? Dunaidial.
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Lift? Please.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: You going past Kimmage?
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: No.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: Done deal cars.
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Once a week. The relationship feels supported and everything's going well.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Less than that, it gets a little problematic. If you're
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: having sex more than once a week, I mean, good
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: for you, but there's not a lot of value added.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: It's not like, you know, once a week is good,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: twice is great, and three times is... It doesn't necessarily
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: work like that. It's like as long as you hit
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: that once a week, you and your partner are usually
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: going to be doing okay with sex.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And do you believe, or is there research that says
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that being intimate like that brings people closer?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, so it's like some of it is just,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you know, basic like neurochemistry, right? So it's like oxytocin
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: and just feeling that sense of closeness to each other.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: One of the things that it's important to remember about
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: sex though, is that often, again, because it's kind of,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: it's one of those things that's easy to count and
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: easy to see is that people think of sex as
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: something you put into your relationship. Like, if a relationship
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: is not going well, maybe we should have sex more, right?
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, maybe you've even seen like people
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: in sex challenges, like we're going to have sex seven
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: days in a row and that's going to fix everything.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: What the research shows is that actually makes it worse, right?
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: It's like by forcing yourself to engage in something like that,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: it just, it doesn't lift your mood the way it should.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: It feels more like a chore. It feels like more
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: of an obligation than something you really want to do.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And so it's this mistake that people commonly make, as
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I said, about seeing sex as something you put in,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: when reality is sex is an outcome. It's an outbound
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: indicator of how good your relationship is. So if you
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: and your partner are dissatisfied with the frequency or the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: quality of the sex that you're having, really the best
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: answer to that is improve your relationship.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And what would you say to people that are having
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: a hard time where The man wants it much more
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: than maybe the woman or opposite. You know, how how
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: would you get them back on the same page?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think getting people back on the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: same page, every relationship problem starts with the same initial solution,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: which is communication.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So, you know, both partners have to have to talk
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: it out, what their expectations are, and then start having
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: a real honest conversation about maybe why one partner doesn't
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: want to have sex as much as the other. And
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: some of those things are going to be tied back, frankly,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to the quality of the relationship. Like we don't do
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: anything together. We're not doing any fun together. You know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: all we do is sit around and let's like, I
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: don't feel sexual towards you because of our routine.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, both partners, you know, and this
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: is another standard thing with communication is that, you know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: those sex conversations tend, people tend to view them as like,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: you know, low sex drive partner versus high sex drive partner.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And like, they've got to kind of like fight it out.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: When the reality is, and this is how couples should
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: think about all communication, is it's not me against you,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: it's us against the problem. And so the problem is
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: we have a mismatch in our sexual fulfillment. And so
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: how can we both work to figure that out? And so,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: you know, if you've been in a relationship for any
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: amount of time, you know, communication and compromise, the two Cs.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, I want to talk about communication for
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: a second because I've been married a couple of times.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: And I remember in the middle of fights thinking to myself, like,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get this point across and I'm not
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: being heard. And I know they were probably thinking the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: same thing. And it's like oil and water. You're not
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: hearing anything. And now that I can step back years
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and years later, I wish I was given the right
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: tools to be able to get through those moments because
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're in a relationship with somebody and
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you care, I mean, the whole point is that you
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: just want to be heard, I'm assuming. And you also want,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming you want to hear what that person's saying
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: because at the bottom, the end of the road, you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: guys just want to work it out and get through
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the night and be in love again, right? So what's
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the best way to communicate so you can both hear
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: what the other person is saying without blowing everything up?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Because at some point, I think you, there's like, a
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: thing where you want to win, you know, you want
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: to win that fight and be like, I won this.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I was right. But how do you get over that?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So you don't have to get through that moment. Cause
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: sometimes you want to take a stand and walk out
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the door and leave. And that's my issue. Like I
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: was always someone who walked away, but if anyone walked
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: away from me, it was like so awful, you know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like how do you get through those moments?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that point you made about wanting to
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: win is a really big part of it, right? And so,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: so often we think of our communication and discussions with
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: our partners as a competition. But what we have to
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: remember is we're really both on the same team. And it's, again,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: it's not you versus me, it's us against the problem.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And so when we are approaching things that way, we're
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: on the same team. We're not on the same team
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: with just anybody either. We're on the same team with
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: someone who we consider our best friend. ideally.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: And so the place to begin every discussion is from,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: you know, this place of just extreme positivity, like the
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt. Like, I love this person. I
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: know they didn't intend to hurt me. I know they're
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: not intentionally trying to be rude or dismissive or condescending
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: or any of those kinds of things. Like they, they,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: they messed up, but I also need to let them
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: know that I think that this is a problem. And then,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you know, the, That is the foundation is huge, right?
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, that'll solve a lot of communication problems. The
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: second thing I would suggest is to avoid impulsive discussions.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And so try to, you know, if you have a
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: problem with somebody, don't let it build up. Don't do that, right?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: What I say, what I talk about in my book is,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: you know, keep small problems small, right? And so what
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I mean by that is every time something comes up,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: mention it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And so if you mentioned the little thing that your
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: partner said, or like they sighed after you asked them
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: to do something and you say like, Hey, you know,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: what was that about? I thought that was a reasonable request.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: You can have like a tiny little conversation about it
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: that like checks that box. And then, then you can
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: move on. But if you're like, no, no, I don't,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I don't want to, I don't want to fight right now.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna let it go. Then the next time
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: they do it, same thing. It just becomes easier to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: let it go, to let it go, to let it go.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And then that leads to something like, they call kitchen thinking, right?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It's weird now, like all the stuff adds up. You
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: haven't forgotten about it and you just keep piling it
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: higher and higher and higher. And then all of a
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: sudden the dam bursts and you start kitchen sinking. You
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: just start throwing everything at them. And so you end
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: up in exactly the situation you described where you have
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: two people who are just kind of like, you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: lobbing all this stuff at each other. No one's feeling heard,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: but they want to make sure they're able to like
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: get their whole list of complaints out to the other person.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And the problem is, even if you really authentically want
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: to address your partner's concerns, when they start just lobbing
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff at you, you don't know where
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to start. You don't know what the real problem is.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: In fact, they themselves probably don't know what the real
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: problem is. So you have to keep those small problems small.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: So many people hesitate to get into relationships or... stop
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: from moving forward in a relationship because they think that
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: they have to make sacrifices. What are your thoughts on that?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sacrifice is one of those romantic notions when it
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: comes to relationships where it's like, I will give up
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: everything for my partner and that is the way to
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: be happy. And oddly enough, what the research shows about
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: sacrifice is, okay, here's the good news. It increases commitment.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So the more you and your partner sacrifice for each other,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: the more committed you become to each other. And so
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: that means you're like, you're locked in, right? I mean,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: that's a long-term kind of thing. The problem is while
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: it increases commitment, it doesn't increase satisfaction. So satisfaction is
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: how happy you are with this person. So you're more
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: locked in, but you're not necessarily happier. I mean, that's
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: not good, right? And so The real reason that you
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: don't get a lot of happiness out of the sacrifices
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: is that partners miss 50% of the things that you
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: do for them. They just don't know 50%. So they're
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: missing half of what you're trying to do to sacrifice
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: on their behalf. They miss it completely. So you're doing something.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: They don't say anything. They don't show any gratitude or appreciation.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And so it really becomes this recipe for resentment. Mm-hmm.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And so what I suggest people do when it comes
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: to sacrifice, a different way to think about it is
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: make sure your sacrifices are mutual and minor. And so mutual,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: you're both making sacrifices. It's not just one person. And
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: the things you're sacrificing should be minor things. Like it
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be major aspects of your identity. It shouldn't be
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: major aspects of your future hopes, dreams, any of your
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: core values, any of that kind of, it should be
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: like minor stuff. Like, oh, you want to watch Netflix tonight? Okay, fine.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Like that's a minor, you know, that's a sacrifice, you know,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: because your partner wants to do that. Like those kinds
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: of things. And again, it's got to be mutual though too.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: You've done a lot of research on self-expansion or the
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: idea that your partner should help you grow as a person.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Can you talk more about that?
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Sure. So, I mean, there's a lot of different reasons
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: why people get into relationships. And so one of the
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: things that myself and a bunch of my colleagues have
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: really focused on is this idea that one of the
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: fundamental motivations for getting into a relationship is to help
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: yourself grow as a person. That we want to grow,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: become more capable, learn new roles, skills, abilities, hobbies, interests,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: all kinds of things. And that our romantic relationship partners,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: that's one of the ways we do it. So when
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you meet somebody for the first time and you're getting
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: to know each other, you're gaining all this new information.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: You have somebody to go out and do fun activities with.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: And so what our research shows is that when people
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: fall in love, when they're in long-term relationships, when they're
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: with the right people, it really does help them grow
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: as a person. Now, of course, that's the ideal, right?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: You find somebody that helps you grow, you help them grow,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and off you go growing together, right? But what we
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: find is that, you know, when you start feeling like
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: your partner isn't able to provide you with enough opportunities.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Where?
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: Dunaidial.
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Lift? Please.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: Are you going past Kimmage?
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage!
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: No.
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: For growth and improvement... it's such a fundamental need that
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: you start looking elsewhere. Like if my partner can't help
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: me become a better person, I'm going to go find
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: someone else who will. And so the research I've done
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: shows you start looking, you start, as we say in
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: research terms, paying attention to alternatives, which really just means
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: like you start looking at other partners. You start considering
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: other people. We have data that shows that you're more
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: likely to cheat. More people do cheat. You're more likely
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: to break up, right? So it's like, This idea of
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: self-expansion is critical to well-functioning relationships.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: So you're saying if you don't find a partner that
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: helps you be a better person, you're more likely to cheat? Yes.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And you found data for that?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Published. Wow.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: That is incredible.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: How did they come up with that?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: How did they come up with that data? They studied
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: different people?
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, you know, it's actually myself and one of
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: my students, you know, we collected data from hundreds of
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: people and you basically ask them about self-expansion in the relationship. Like,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: you know, how much does your partner challenge you to
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: become a better person? How much does your partner help
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: you discover new things and take on new perspectives? And,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: you know, a bunch of like those kinds of things
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that like indicate that they're helping you grow as a person.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: And then we ask them, you know, how likely are
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you to cheat? We've done versions where we ask people,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: you know, over the past six months, have you cheated
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: on your partner? And the people have lower self-expansion scores
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: are more likely to cheat and have reported more cheating.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Meaning that they were bored in the relationships they were in.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: It wasn't based on their feelings within themselves. It was
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: with the partner they were with.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: So, you know, it's a boredom, but it's also like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a sense of not being fulfilled in
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: your primary relationship that leads you to seek out other alternatives.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So interesting. My gosh. And I'm assuming that creates a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: level of jealousy. What are your thoughts on jealousy?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, jealousy, for sure. I mean, jealousy is one of
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: those interesting emotions in relationships, because the biggest mistake people
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: think with jealousy is that jealousy shows that you care.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: And it shows that you're like, it's like a heightened
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: level of devotion and investment in a relationship. And that's
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: just not what it is, right? I mean, so To
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: be fair, I mean, jealousy is an indication that you
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: value something and you're afraid of losing it. So you
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: should be able to, there should be some circumstance in
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: the world to which you could find yourself jealous when
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: it comes to your partner. But that obsessive, suspicious jealousy
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: where you're always monitoring, like, where were you? What were
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: you doing? Who's that texting you? Those types of jealousy feelings,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: that's not love. right? I mean, that's controlling, that's dominance, that's,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: you know, it's actually, you know, a lot of those
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: jealousy feelings actually start from feelings of insecurity.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And doesn't that come from past relationships, your own issues
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: from your past experiences? Sometimes they have nothing to do
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: with the relationship you're in. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, you know, we pack our bags
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: full of a bunch of like bad experiences from the
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: past and we just strap that on and bring that
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: bad baggage with us. And so, yeah, it comes from
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of places, you know, a lot of it
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: too is this like people who are more jealous have
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: a low perceived mate value. So essentially they just don't
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: think they're that great of a partner. And so they
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: have to constantly monitor the potential that someone's going to
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: steal their partner from them.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: So how would you suggest people overcome jealousy in a relationship?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not easy because of where it comes from largely.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of it's got to be trust and it's
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: got to be, you know, if you're a jealous person
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and your partner explains to you, like, this is not
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: an issue, you have to trust them, right? And trust is,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: you know, transparency and consistency over time. And so they're,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: you know, hopefully you're with somebody who's transparent and consistent
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: and hopefully it's over time and you have to just
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: start noticing all of the reasons why you have to
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: trust your partner because they're there. They're absolutely there. The
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: other thing you have to remember in relationships, not just
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: in terms of jealousy, but that vulnerability is strength. And
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: so you have to make yourself vulnerable. You have to
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: open up. to have a relationship. And the people who
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: are able to be vulnerable, that's not a sign of weakness.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: That's a sign of strength. It's a sign of confidence.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And so you build by building your confidence, building your strength,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: you make it easier to be more vulnerable and trust
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: the other person.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about breakups for a second, because
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: everybody's experienced them. Sometimes breakups can be worse than a
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: broken leg. they're so painful. No one wants to go
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: through one. You did a TED Talk, breakups don't have
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to leave you broken, that have over 2.4 million views,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: which focuses on how breakups can be a good thing.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. Why are they good?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so breakups can be a good thing. You know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: we talked a little bit about self-expansion, how important it
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: is that your relationship helps you grow as a person.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: And so what colleagues and I found in our research
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: was that if you ask people about their relationship and
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: you found that, again, their relationship was providing them insufficient self-expansion,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: when they broke up those relationships, they felt better, right?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: So it was essentially addition by subtraction. So that past
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: partner was essentially holding you back from becoming a better person.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: So by getting rid of them, so by leaving that relationship,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: you now have opportunities to self-expand, grow, improve, outside of
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: that relationship. And so I'm not saying that they were
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: 100% happy, but like when you ask them overall, how
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: did you feel? Most people in that situation, they felt
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: as though the breakup was a good thing for them.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Right. So like I've been through breakups where, you know,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I'll be dating somebody for, let's say, you know, nine months,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: but four months of that is me trying not to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: break up with that person or figuring out how not
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to break up with them or them not to break
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: up with me or, you know, making all sorts of excuses.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And then when the breakup happens, you like can't get
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: out of bed for weeks because you're so devastated. And
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: then now that I'm years out of that and I'm
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: thinking about it, it's like, that was so ridiculous, you know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and thank God that I'm out of it because I
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: can look back and see how I grew from that
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: or the opportunities that happened or the guy I met
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: after that or how awful I looked during that because
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I was so stuck in whatever physical, you know, being
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I was in then. So I know exactly what you're
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: talking about. And I feel like I know so many
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: people that are in. bad relationships right now that just
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: won't leave. What are the signs to get out of
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a relationship that are just like deal breakers that you
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: know of that people that are in bad relationships right
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: now should like get out of these relationships?
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, deal breakers are are personal to some degree,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: but like, you know, some of the obvious ones are
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: any kind of, you know, physical or emotional abuse, someone
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: not accepting you for who you are, someone trying to
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: change you, um, someone not being supportive of your own beliefs, um,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: undermining who you are, your relationships with your family. Um,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: dating a narcissist is tough, right? I mean, that, that,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: that's a tough one to deal with a lot of
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: times as, as a deal breaker. Um, Yeah, I mean,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: I think that there's lots of deal breakers that are,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: and again, it's going to vary from person to person.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: But I think one of the things people need to
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: remember with breakup is that as much as it hurts,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: you know, like after you experience heartbreak, like as you
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: just described, like your vision clears, like you do get
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: over it, like time does heal that.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: A little bit.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And the other thing to remember is that great relationships
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: seldom fail, but the bad ones do as they should.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Not only as they should, but as you should want
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: them to. Because I say it all the time. It's like,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: everybody deserves a great relationship. And so it takes two
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: people to make a relationship great. So even if you
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: were the one getting broken up with and you're devastated
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: and you wanted it to work, the thing that you're mourning,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: the thing that you're sad about losing was probably never
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: actually there in the first place because the other person
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: didn't see it. Otherwise they wouldn't have ended their relationship.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And so you're not sad about that relationship ending. You're
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: sad about this perfect relationship you want to have that
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: you didn't find it this time. And so something we
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: talk about in coaching is either you find love, you're
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: gone dating, you're doing a bunch of online dating, either
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: you find love or you learn, right? And you get
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: one step closer to learning more about yourself, to learning
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: about the kind of partner you're looking for, to help
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: you find the relationship you really want.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: And if you're not married, this is why you're dating, right?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Because you're trying people on and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And it's okay to have to feel like your heart
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: is broken each time. And that's all right, but you
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: have to try it on. You have to love as
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: much as you can so that you can figure out
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: if that's working or not. And, you know, I think
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: it's actually a great thing that you give it your all.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: And if it doesn't work, you give it your all again,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: because you should believe in love. And I think it's
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: a great thing, but you eventually, hopefully we'll find the
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: right one, but you got to keep trying on new
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: people to see what works and what doesn't work and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: take the lessons out of it. But also what I
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: found from, again, my experience is that what's the hardest
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: thing when you get out of it is like recovering
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: in this world that you don't know. So like I
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: was so used to being with this guy that all
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: of a sudden when he's not there, what do I do?
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I have no plans with anyone. I forget how to
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: interact with my friends. I have nothing to do on
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: these evenings that I was fully booked every night on
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: my weekends when I didn't have my daughter, you know,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: so Like, explain to people what, you know, some strategies
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: of what to do when you go through a breakup.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Because I think that keeps people in a relationship because
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: they're scared of being alone. And sometimes it is the
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: best thing to do.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dada's connections with. They have more
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Where?
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: Dunaidial.
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Do you mean?
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on done deal cars.
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: Lyft, please.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: You're going past Kimmage. Oh, Kimmage.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: No, done deal cars.
• 43:15
  Speaker 6: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: To get back into a routine of things you don't
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: even remember that you used to like, because I forgot
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: who I was.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's a really important point, right?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: It's like people will stay longer in the relationship than
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: they should. And one of the reasons they stay longer
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: is because they don't want to be alone. But really
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of times in those not so great floundering relationships,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: you feel alone while you're in a relationship. And so
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: what's the difference then at that point, right? I mean,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: you feel alone in your relationship. So then being alone,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you now actually have a chance to find somebody else.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: The other thing to know about breakup is that people,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: when researchers have looked at this, right? So when they
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: ask people to predict, like, how are you going to
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: feel when you break up? People assume they're going to
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: be much more devastated than they actually are, because then
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: The researchers say like, how bad are you going to feel?
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: And people are like, I'm going to be terrible. It's
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: going to be awful. And then the researchers actually follow
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: them and wait for them to end that relationship and
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: then say like, how do you feel? And I mean,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: they don't feel, it's not like they feel wonderful, but
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: it's like they just, people don't feel as bad as
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: they think they're going to. And I think that's really
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: important for people to remember to help keep in perspective
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: so that what they're assuming this terrible devastation is going
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: to be, it's a bigger thing that's looming in their
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: imagination that then is reality. So you were asking about
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: what you can do post-breakup to help. I mean, I
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: think that experience that you described about your world's kind
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: of different and there's almost like this vacuum, like you
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: lost a bunch of things. In those situations, one of
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: the things I would suggest is a slate reframe where
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: instead of looking at it as a vacuum, you look
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: at it as an opportunity. Now it's like a blank slate, right?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: You've erased everything. Now you get to fill it in
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: with all the things that should be your very, very
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: top priorities, whatever those things happen to be. It's like
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: hitting a reset button almost and getting to start over.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: And so one of the things that I've looked at
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: in some of my own research, and that was in
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: the TED Talk that you referenced, is this idea of
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: rediscovery of the self. Because as you said, part of
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: what happens is you kind of forget who you are.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: And so rediscovery of the self is really what we
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: found to be the best thing to help with a
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: breakup is essentially like, go back to who you were
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: before the relationship. Because in every relationship, we kind of
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: like let little pieces of ourself go, or we de-emphasize them,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: or we hold them back, or we make sacrifices that
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: maybe we shouldn't. So it's like, of all the things
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: you can possibly do to make yourself feel better after
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: a breakup, getting back to who you were before you
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: were in that relationship, that rediscovering your past self is
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: what we found to be the best.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: And do you have any advice on how to not
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: pick the same type of guy or girl over and
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: over and over so you keep making the same mistakes?
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the best things to do is
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: take some time off, right? So if you hop from
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: relationship to relationship and you never really kind of get
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: that chance to be alone, you're never going to do
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: the necessary self-reflection that you need to gain the insights
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: that you're asking about, right? And so with that time alone,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: assuming you're going to take a break, you need to
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: first be comfortable with being alone. So that that way
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: you want a relationship, you don't need a relationship. And
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: there's a very big difference. And so a lot of
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: that is building your own confidence. And then also really
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: thinking very hard about the type of relationship you really want.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And you want to do this without any person in mind,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: without some potential person you might date or someone you
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: are dating. Like, who is the person you want? And
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: it's not the person you want today, tomorrow, or this week.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: It's who do you want to be with in five years,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: 10 years, and 50 years? What are the qualities that
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: person's going to have? And so to kind of like
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: complete the loop, you know, it's those best friend qualities
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: that we talked about earlier.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Now I saw on, is it lovestrategies.com that you're the
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: chief love scientist?
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Chief Love Scientist. Yep.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: That's a fun title. I saw that you said to
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: move slow in a new relationship. Why is that? Yeah.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: So one of the keys to dating and in any
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: new relationship is to slow things down. And so this
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: goes to what you were kind of describing before about
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: like dating is about collecting information. And we have to
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: remember relationships are a game of incomplete information. I don't
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: know everything about you. You don't know everything about me.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I also actually don't know everything about myself. And neither
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: do you know everything about yourself, but that's a whole
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: separate issue. But like the only way for us to
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: find things out is by dating, by, by spending time together.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: And so if you date too fast, you allow all
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: of the physical, like animal brain sides of you to
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: override your more logical sense. So if you date quick,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: It's going to be, you know, those things like love
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: bombing and just how hot the other person is and
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: the feelings of chemistry and like all those like fluttery
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: stomach feelings that, you know, we love about falling in love.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Those tend to make us, you know, they say love
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: is blind. It's also deaf, dumb and a little stupid.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: And so to counteract that, you want to be slow
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: about it. And so, you know, spread it out over weeks,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: months and just use all that time to gather more information. Now,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: what I will tell you is that, you know, one
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: of the things in coaching and love strategies, you know,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: this is, we call this pacing. And one of the
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: things that people struggle with is, but if, if I
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: slow things down, he's not going to like me anymore.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: And what we find is, okay, that's true. If he
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: didn't really want to be with you as a long-term partner, right? Like,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: so if you're slowing things down and he's like, forget this,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: I'm out of here. He wasn't who you were looking
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: for anyway. He wasn't in it for a long-term, fulfilling,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: committed relationship. He was in it for short-term fun, right?
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: If he is in it for a long-term committed relationship
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: and you're slowing things down, it's a little absence makes
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: the heart grow fonder phenomenon. Like, you know, people start
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: wanting what they can't have. And so it only strengthens
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: the feelings. It doesn't weaken them.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting you're talking about this because I've never
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: had a relationship that way. I go on a date.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is the guy that night. And
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I start dating them. And then if I go on
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: a date and I don't have any chemistry, that's it.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know how to date in
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: a very slow manner. So talk to someone like me
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: about learning how to do that, because I would think
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: that that would mean I don't have chemistry with them.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't even know how to date somebody in a slow,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: long term relationship. manner because I just date thinking, oh,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: he knows me so well. We get each other. I
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable with him. Otherwise, I think, forget it. This
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: didn't work. I would never go on a second date
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: with him.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of those chemistry signs
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about, those are really more superficial types
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: of things. I mean, a lot of that chemistry comes
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: from physical things. It's kind of a feeling and it's
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: things that are short-lived. and don't necessarily have long-term implications
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: for the future. Right. And so dating slow is you're
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: still going to automatically have those visceral kinds of responses
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: to people. And you, you know, you're still going to
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: feel chemistry, but the thing is chemistry can develop. Like
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: people can develop chemistry over time. There's, there's certainly people
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: in your life. I'm sure that, you know, at very first,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: you didn't hit it off amazingly. And then over time,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: you know, something has can develop. The things that are
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: harder to develop over time are partners who have good,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: stable personalities, who are good listeners, a lot of those
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: best friend characteristics. So those are the things that if
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: you're interested in a long-term stable relationship, you want to
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: optimize for those more what we call companionate love factors
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and not so much of the passionate love factors. Because
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: the passionate love, the chemistry, all that kind of stuff,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: it fizzles.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of times if you're dating that way,
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: if you're dating on those qualities, the chemistry stuff, you
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: probably end up in a lot of relationships that start
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: off really great. And that six months ish or so
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: start to just kind of die out. And they just
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: don't have the same kind of staying power that other
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: relationships have.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm single. So what do
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: I know about But the interesting thing is I prefer
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: to date online at this point because I will say
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: that the nice part of dating online, which I've become
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: really good at, is I'm able to figure out a
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: chemistry that has nothing to do with a physical chemistry.
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I'm able to tell what I call if somebody gives
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: good phone or if they have a good energy about them.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: And I can tell if they're responsive, if they're responsible,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: if they're... if they're funny, if they're interested, engaged, and
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: I've never met them, I've never seen them. And you
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: can go on a picture and see what they look like,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: but you can't see their mannerisms, right? You can't see
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: how they hold a fork, how they chew, how they talk.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: And sometimes, obviously, that has to do with physical chemistry
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: and you might fall for somebody based on those things.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: But You also might not like somebody based on those things.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: But if you are speaking to somebody online and you
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: really fall for somebody, that's a totally different chemistry. And
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I really like dating online that way because if you
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: find that you really like someone enough that you're almost
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: aching to meet them, I think you really have something there.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: And the last couple of times that I've dated somebody long-term,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: and when I say long-term, I mean for years, it's
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: through dating online. And it's because it worked that way.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: And when I met them physically, they may have not
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: been my type. Like I would have never gone up
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to them in a bar or said yes, if I
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: met them in person, but I, you know, the physical
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. You know, I was
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: attracted to them based on who they were. So their physical,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: I became attracted to them. You know what I mean?
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I find it interesting you're using the term
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: chemistry for that, but because we would call that dating intentionally, right?
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: So when you're dating online, you have a real opportunity
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: to date intentionally, which is really look into that person,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: really see if your personalities are going to be compatible.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: See if you're going to have those kind of commonalities
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: and things like that so that you don't overvalue some
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: of those physical attributes. And so, you know, what you're
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: describing is exactly what we would suggest is, you know,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: optimize for those personal, you said responsible, responsive, like those
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: are good relationship qualities. And so the nice thing about
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: online dating is it levels the playing field for the
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: more relationship oriented guys and Because dating in real life,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: like meeting people out at parties and bars really gives,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: it makes it a lot easier for the highly charismatic
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: narcissist type of guys to do better because they're the
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: ones that are super comfortable going up to people and
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: like picking people up in those situations and having those conversations.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: But like your standard relationship oriented, nice guy, like he's
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: not going to do that out in the world. Like
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: as we call it, say dating organically, but like online,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: those people shine. Right. And particularly if they're just like
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: slightly introverted, like those are some of the best conversationalists
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: in the world. But it's hard to meet them in
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: other contexts than online. And so online dating has, you know,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: as we say a lot of times at Love Strategy,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: it's it's a tool. And so, you know, you start
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: dating online, but then you want to meet people in
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: real life as soon as you possibly can. But like
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: you can do a lot of screening through online dating.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Right. And let's talk about energy for a second. Like
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I was just talking about, I have a hard time
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: with my energy. Um, I come across very alpha and
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: sometimes I think that gets me into trouble. Um, because
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: I find that a feminine energy is weak, but I've
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: been told by men that it's too much and it's
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: actually not attractive. What are your thoughts on that?
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is actually something, you know, we talk
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: a lot about, um, Adam LaDolce, who, who is the
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: founder of Love Strategies. He talks a lot about leaning
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: into your feminine energy, particularly because the women that come
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: to coaching for us are much like yourself, you know, confident, capable, smart, successful.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: And so you tend to have more of this alpha
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: kind of way about you. Now, for a lot of guys,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: that can be intimidating and frankly, a turnoff, right? You
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: can just flat out scare a lot of guys away.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: And so what we teach in the program is leaning
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: into your feminine energy. And so, you know, leaning back,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: letting him take charge, asking for help on occasion. Right.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: And just, but not at first, at first.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: And so this is not like, we're not, I'm not
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: saying there'll be a damsel in distress or anything like that,
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: but it's like, you know, you help him, he helps
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: you like, and so it'll eventually balance out. But at first,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: at least like, lean back. So, you know, I say
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: what I say all the time is step back so
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: he can step forward. And so give him a chance because,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: you know, it again goes back to this idea of,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: you know, gathering more information. So rather than being like
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: the go-getter planning of everything and doing everything, leading the conversation,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: just kind of lean back and see how he reacts
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: because that's going to ultimately give you more information.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: So be a little more girly is your advice.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'd say girly necessarily. It's just like, let,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: you know, Your relationship long-term is always going to be
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: a give and take, right? So at first, give a
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: little more.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Okay. What else do I want to ask you? What, okay,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: so what are the, a few more questions. What are
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: the qualities that men like most or men find attractive
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: the most that women overlook that we don't know about?
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Some secrets for us.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: So that men find attractive that women don't know about.
• 57:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's just, it's, it's being laid back and fun,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: like being low maintenance. Right. And so, you know, like,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: that's just kind of like going with the, it's, it's
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: funny that I say that right after saying like lean
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: back a little bit, because it is some of that.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: It's like go with the flow, not be so like
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: hard charging and planning everything out to the nth degree
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: and just kind of, you know, be able to be
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: a little bit more carefree. I would say that that's
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: one of them for sure.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. And, is that, does that go into the same
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: thing as behaviors that scare men off? Are there other
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: behaviors that might scare men off besides that? Not that
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: that would scare a man off, but.
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: You know, in terms of behaviors that would scare a
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: man off, I mean, one of the things for sure
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: is playing games, like playing games is for some reason
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: that there's a lot of people out there that think
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: the way to really handle relationships are like these like
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: little tests and these little games, like, you know, let's
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: see if he'll give me attention. And so let's see
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: how long it'll take for him to text me, or
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start a fight to see how he reacts.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, those kinds of things are just terrible, right?
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Nobody wants to deal with that stuff. One of the
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: other big ones is talking excessively about past relationships and
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: or complaining about dating and relationships, right? So one of
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the biggest turnoffs is, you know, you sit down, you're
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: on a first date, you're only dating, and the person
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: sits there and like, oh, don't you just hate online dating? Like,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: isn't this the worst? And it's like, that's a weird
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: way to start that conversation, right? Because we're both online dating.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: And so it's you're you're starting from a place of
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: negativity and you know frankly we don't like negative people
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: and so it seems like a natural way to start
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: a conversation because it's a shared interest commonality kind of
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: thing but it's also starting from the wrong place in
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: terms of you know we shouldn't be starting our relationship
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: off from from a place of negativity you want to
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: start more from positivity I.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Guess my last question would be, what is the most
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: misunderstood thing about relationships that you have found in your
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: research that you would want to get across?
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: One of the most misunderstood things. I would say, I
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: already kind of said the thing about not completing you.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: I think that's a big one. But I think one
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: of the things I think people make a mistake about,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: particularly when it You don't want to decide how you
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: feel about somebody based on how they feel about you, right?
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: So don't decide that you like a person because they
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: like you. That's not enough. That's not enough to carry
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: a relationship. A relationship takes two people working together. And
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: so you can't be the one that does all the work, right?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: And so just because somebody likes you You have to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: approach relationships from this place of confidence. And so the
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: fact that they like you isn't special. Because of course
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: they like you. You're a likable person. Why wouldn't they
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: like you? And that sounds really, really simple. But it
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: goes back to self-confidence and self-esteem. And it starts a
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: whole cycle of things where if you don't have that confidence,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: if you haven't done that work, what we call in
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: love strategies, making yourself relationship ready, you're going to attract
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: the wrong kind of person. They're going to treat you
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: poorly in a way that you're going to accept because
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: in some ways you're going to think you deserve it.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: And then it's going to lower your expectations for relationships.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: And you're going to think, oh, all relationships are bad
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: like this. And then you're going to think, I can't
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: do any better than these bad relationships. And you're going
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: to keep finding yourself in this pattern of bad relationships
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: with people who don't treat you very well. And that's
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: only going to lower your confidence and self-esteem further. And
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: then that cycle is just going to keep going and
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: going and going. And it's, Every time when I give
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: talks about this, I mentioned this cycle idea. I think
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of times the reaction is like, well, who
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: would do that? That's terrible. The problem is it happens subtly.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: It happens slowly. So you don't feel that confident about yourself.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: And your partner makes an offhanded remark that just says like, gosh,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: you're so dumb sometimes. And you're like, yeah, whatever. like
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: instead of saying like, wait, what did you say? Like,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: how dare you? Like, that's not okay. You don't talk
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: to me like that. You're like, okay. And you just
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: kind of let it go. And then, you know, by
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: them being able to say that it kind of emboldens
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: them to like treat you just a little bit worse
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: and a little bit worse. And it's like, it doesn't
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: happen all at once, but just little by little bite
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: by bite. It just starts really eating away at you.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: And you just, you don't realize it's happening. And so,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I think that's something people need to realize. Right.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: And people end up losing their sense of self. And
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: this is how you get down a slippery slope.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Well, all of this has been super interesting. I thank
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: you so much for your time. You guys can find
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: more of this on lovestrategies.com. And I hope to see
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: you again. Thank you so much.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Rachel.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 7: Thank you for listening to the misunderstood podcast with host Rachel.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 7: You could tell executive producer Kelly Brink. If you have
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 7: an episode suggestion or would like to reach out for
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 7: collaboration and sponsorship opportunities. email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast at gmail.com.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 7: That's infomisunderstoodpodcast, all one word, at gmail.com. Be sure to
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 7: like and subscribe everywhere you get your podcasts and leave
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 7: us a five-star rating and review because it helps the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 7: show so much. Watch full videos of each and every
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 7: episode of Misunderstood on YouTube at Misunderstood Podcast. See you
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 7: next time.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial. Where?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: Dunaidial.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 7: Please.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: You going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: Done deal cars.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 6: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.