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Lord Skidelsky: Warum Frieden in der Ukraine möglich – aber unwahrscheinlich ist · Gegen den Strom

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The British realize the surrenda of sudaton land to hit the
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Unleashed, the second will and so that that shamed of that and
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they drol a fulls historical lesson from that, we can't if
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you a peas any diktator. They will's us for more and more
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when solid unan claps to nineteen nineteen nineteen one
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it's team to the the american hedgermanane was going to that
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captive secret because they don't want I'm two a get the
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russians, the appetunity of sing Nato forses are in valt in you
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cran don't mic peace now because we will support you to the
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hilled if you continue the war. In Not Awards will give you a
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promise a victory. Gegen den Strom zur Person
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Hallo, bei gegen den Strom. Ich präsentiere Ihnen Positionen
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und Perspektiven, welche die Propagandamedien verschweigen.
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Ein Gast bei der Internationalen Friedenskonferenz für die
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Ukraine, Russland und Europa in Lissabon ist ein Historiker, ein
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Wirtschaftshistoriker, ein ehemaliger Professor, ein Brite
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und ein Mitglied des House of Lords, des Oberhauses des
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britischen Parlaments und. Er setzt sich für
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Friedensverhandlungen ein. Willkommen Lord Robert Skidalski
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and you Held a Speech in the House of Lords and you we're the
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single one to demand Peace nikosiations in the Okreen war
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what was the Situation how that. We'll i're been free consistant
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in asking frerna go shage it peace from about march two
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thousand and twenty two and first letter.
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Of Mine was apired in the Financial times co signed by
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David Owen. What been the faring secretry
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and we set we'll go to get to new go shirt peace for got to
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get new go shirt as going that's been mine insistent boring line
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for last threen a half years, it's have no residence in the
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house of lols or in palament that been about tool three
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people have been more as on the same wavlanks.
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And have us for sameting, but otherise that's be in absolut
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uninity from all the three parties that we mest forma
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united front to resist russian aggression, and that if russia
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is a lot suxid in ukraine, it will be the beginning of the end
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of west and civilization. That's been the basic line so
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it's been very lonely. You know you're you're grate it
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you're say something with you think is sensible, you're grate
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it with complete silence and off and hustility and the sametime
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it's been very very difficult for me to get this you into the
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mainstream journals. They don't they don't like to
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publish this so to thin cation i get the Outlet vari cation i get
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an artical in but the mainstream german of journals of consult me
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and so that simple reflex the mut of a ficial brit now.
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Can you x plane the hostility of the british leads against
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rushal? We're do you're from.
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It's a very, very. Complex thing I think part of it
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is old rossophobia going back to the nineteen centry and rush is
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was been regarded as a sof a enemy, i think one moment to
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that in the nineteen centry was the crime and will, but that was
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anian incident in what was cool the great game between the
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British empire and rushian expansion is on to the black sea
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and thretning india so that was. At the route one route it a
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second route as bean the british feeling that they standful
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civilized international relations against the barbaric
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conties a which russia was one. Ups, a hope wars that it will
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graduate to the stage is of a civilized contry, but they they
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will waiting and and and so the hustility one three a third
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element was the ideas at brittan was Gries to Americas row so
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that brittan was simply guide American policy, but in or to
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that it was be very klose to america and that for brittan was
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the. Main chill leader in the
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coldwall and sins and beful Trump, the main chill leader for
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the American Biden position on you crane we'm a staklos to the
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americans at that a full thing was and somuch rusophobia as i
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would cool shame over appeasment the british relies that the
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saranda of sudatonland to Hitler.
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A unleash the second will and so that there's shamed of that and
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they drew a fulls historical lesson from that because it if
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you a pease, any dictator they will always us for more on more,
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so that's more twit the that it's more compicate because
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british and all server have periodic admiration for russian
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culture, russian music, russian literatur, but it's
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beenover.com. I think by a basic russephobia
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feeling the Russian song pleaky civilized and that is a jom just
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sos of civilized them and this shame over appeasement.
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That's the best i can do i think the the topic demons for the
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exponation, but as you say the british of bean, the bellicos of
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the westin coalition. Canosay that the britisian
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leads. A still playing the great game
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for two hundred. Years the years that have a
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really. I'm it, it's it's very
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interesting that i think brexit was a cudden important step
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because. That's separated britan from
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Europe and gay britan you i do that it can't alone play a
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grate, a grate parrol with the america it made it closer to
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America do it closer to America for the way from Europe and so
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you so has that and paradox that this it imperial nostalgia
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coexisted with a retreat in to insillarity.
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So as a as a as a as a separate pow, we connectuity XZ worldwide
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influence so the British M pow bekam a Kind of the Commonwelf
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britans Connections Britan Soft pow it will so at it up to the
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out of it britan still have a world row and it was simply
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delusion most of it. And very costly them dilusion
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for others who a diluded byed do you?
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Think that the british one to profit from the special
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relationship to the hedgerman in Washington.
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That always have that's a very nosty frays that the british
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ambass of the us at the time of arak, and i'm not going to
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repeated, but it's basic point is we miss always stay very
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close to United States, I'll United States, I'm fortently
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have destroided. They have said they they've one
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the british in this that broken that broken from the hedgemonic
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modle that's an fact brican supported and i think that's a
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bean a realization but trump and i think trump is a very
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interesting figure. I think he's generaly against
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war he generaly once the nobell price for peace, not because he
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just once it because he's bean is against killing and senseles
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was. But you also realize is that
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american part is waning and the hedgemonic dream is over a
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hedgemonic reality. I'm say is over and that we're
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living living in a multipolaroe and that's the suta will and
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with america has to a comedate mainly china, but also in a
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sightly longaron india. And South brzil and all the
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countries so it contest believe and e long that it it it makees
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the law for the howel. So that means America Washington
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realizes that the usa i not's dragonoff to rule the howel
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world and now they one to cut clames.
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The world bibi divided in different clames and what will
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be the roll of grate brittan in this moral.
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I don't think Grate brittan figers in etactually I'm it
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would figar it it if it if it was part of Europe, the european
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union and because i can be one of the blogs in a multipol awel
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but brittan count be one of the poles in a multipol awel it's
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they don't strong in out going back to the american attitude.
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You know Trump also um Feezon and no old American Tradition of
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Isolation is um I'm American Never bekam and Imperial Power
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and to the second weowal and off to that it developed what
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slashender call the Imperial Presidency bevor that America.
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Didnt one to actually metal to much in the fast of the weld,
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there's the one or adoption it was secure with in the the
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american world and the rest of the well go do what they want to
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evan Evan in nineteen for to one it was very right on clare with
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a americode enter the second well will it was dronin to it
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festival by japanes attack on pohaba.
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But also my Hitlers do bitity and to claring war on the united
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stays if that have and happened if you have and down that it's
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not clare to me, that's America would have end to the european
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one. What if a cose for Japan not
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completely clare that it will end of the European Wall.
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So it was Hitler who broke America in to hedgemonic status
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really and it was hitler who broke russia in to the position
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of the second hedgemon the geocli so Hitler chee of the
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great deal. Not the what he intendeed but
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what was unintendeed unintendeed consequences of as actions.
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With Roll place in American and British geopolitical thinking,
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the hotland Theory of halford makinda this British geographat
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who explained his theory. Bevor The Royal Geographic
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Society in nineteen o 4 and he explained who rules the hotland
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grat orasia is ruling the world and the maritime powers has to
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split up orasia. But that was that was the fury
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at that time, but they was another fury with kam of it late
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and i for get who it was you're say the two rules, the seas
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rules the hotland so the ideal was you surround the hotland
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with these pathol navies and that's that the british
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tradition because the pax britonica of the nineteen centry
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was based on British naval supremacy and it was in the
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British armies. The really fort these Grate wars
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it was the Navy and the Navy secured British position in in
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in the well and the navy to something all the British Navy.
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Oh the pax britanical enable, but the british navy it
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providered a saragate government with was a political foundation
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of freetrade with was verimotion the British interest so you
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have. The political conditions for
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free trade secureed by the british navy and in a way the
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americans inheritate that ID that was in to will government.
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You need it political foundations the United nations,
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perhaps was thort for time to provied is political
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foundations, but with the vital power it good and that's a packs
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Amerikaner was just surigate of will government and that's.
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I think how there's so the World Developic now I'm in Americans
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correctly judged that the soviet Union what and in the end ba
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will to the stane a challenge to the united states because it's
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economy was we can system was you know it just and have the
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economic klaus to do it and so one.
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Solid Union Claps and Nineteen nineteen ninety one it seamed as
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the the American hedgermanane was complete and that was
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reflected in a Fame as SA we two of shurnay about from this for
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kiama the end of history, there was nothing multifight about all
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the the Battles rerova you know hat the coming of the higalian
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spirit. But this unipolar moment.
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Last it very short and to the Munich Security conference in
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two thousand does seven when Putin declared it is unnatural
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to have a uni polar world. We need a multipolar world what
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just that mean what I'm James something.
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That I'm in he the ruptions have a accepted the fuck you arm a
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moment, i'm in they with week at at that moment, but they would
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recover the string. I'm in that was always that if
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you re the russian far in far in policy literature, the ninety
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nineties as they emphasized the moment of wigness and retrusia
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had to concido these things, but they look for to recovery a
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russian streng three the economy and and and and technology and o
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kind of thing so the russians for always as i know one to be a
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tutualage. On to the tutualidge of of
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America, they were is they have that tradition and that
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tradition was of imperia Russia and then of sowed the
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sowjetunion with was co equal to the United States in in
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disposing of the fels of the planet and they like for.
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To so recovery of some of back position now, i don't think
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putin have a solt to the multipolar world was bount to be
15:57
one in with the post conflict it.
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There was it, it was very close to the i think multipolarity of
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a balan supar between coicals who.
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With with good leadership, what nigo shate that differences what
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ever it nigo shate that differences and that with insure
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a ps for will i think that was probible the russian view of how
16:21
things with develop, but he depended crucilate i think on
16:26
the ID the Russia what reclam control or assert control over
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is buffas. Just as there's that america a
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cert of the moneror doctor and so russia with a certa kind of
16:41
putin doctoring, which is the to don't to love nata to expand
16:46
into the central russia so. How DPA British specriforces
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involved in the Ukreen will we? Don't know it's it's a close the
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go on it secret. We know that that.
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And we know that that training how can to train you cranians
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have all they direkt battle taktics we don't know that
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captive secret because they don't want to a get the russians
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the opitunity of sing Nato forses are in valt in you cran
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and that was also the i just the coalition of the willing.
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When off the trump and so to flow to just first peace plan,
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the ij was it would be individual conquers who would be
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peak at policing the see's for not natal.
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The fact of thely is kind of is happen to be in natal.
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We're so to them you know it OO cop it up.
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But so it was that the british have been that, but that been
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not been the uni ones that I'm in insting friend special forses
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german special for that will kind of people have been
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involved sarapticiously in the ucrane war on the side of ucrane
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and rushes been ruther restrained and not twenting this
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out the holtime. Russian Special forses Catched
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two British Offices near Odessa. Russian Missiles Hit Battalion
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of the French Foreign Legion near Kakif so the we's this
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deeple and Wolf of think what do you think?
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But all the end of of is a the special of is a britision french
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fors is actually fighting or all they simply that just so to
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direkt train. I'm not sure about that.
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I don't see don't know it's it's a clase to go it's secret and
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even and even parlamentarians don't know what the on so to
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that is but that that and that's stiffning you cranian
19:02
resistance, but what's it strikes me as really amoral
19:08
about this holting is that that in carrigine u cranians to fight
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go on fighting, we that have a going them.
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Andy Real Real is the kind of assistance as we do anable them
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to be victorius. They can't do that because that
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to be an esculation, but you're the nato in a wargance rusha and
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that to coz means nesculation intertectical nucular and with
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with the danger of you know fed a esculate so they stop shoul to
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that, but the same time they saitly cranens we will've all
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that all to takes. But all the to takes what for
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what for victory, but they that's a that was a lie.
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They we have a going to get them all the to takes what they did
19:57
was then carry see you cranians not to AP with roll Blade.
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Priminist of Boris Johnson in April Two Thousand and two.
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By Stoping Peace Negosriations. I think it was a very important
20:16
roll. It's plite true that technically
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he was simply that to advises the cranions and so's generally
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that you're good guies and so, but what he's that was mospic
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he's that don't mic peace now because we will support you to
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the hillt if you continue the war.
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In not a was will give you a promise a victory if you go on,
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but we will we will notic we will not support to if you on to
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agocia and it's impossible to believe the that's so to the
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shurance then influence theout.com of the nigocations
20:58
the west with not support in agociate it peace at this point,
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but it was support you cranian to the point to victory.
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Now if you as lensky and you have some sult of a dreamment
21:11
with russians with was and that's that is factory, but i'm
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in you know it and then this path for alians coms to and that
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don't make the pies we will make it all right fear, it's you
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know. Acording to the result of the
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stanbul legosiations the ukrainians.
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What have they're contry back without cray meo and now they
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are in the much vers situation you're.
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Right II, think it, it's very important that in the much two
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thousend two twentitunic ocations russian Russian to not
21:54
demand the donbass, it's oni. Annex these territories in the
22:01
september, two thousand twenty two, we're just in the six one
22:05
soft of the faily of an agociations that was will ways
22:08
an alternative from Ukraine. We're was a sutered d centralize
22:12
one in the fetral system in with the minorities we can the full
22:17
rights as in a fetral system, we're a lodge muntal utonomy,
22:21
but that was a been a wicka ukraine rich to the suit the
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nation is. Because the nationals we're
22:29
geting strong on strong of the the galician you crane really
22:34
one to the strong new crane to stand up trussia and if that's
22:38
theory to fight russia and a Fed rure you u crane made up of
22:42
release different regions what in to be name what in to be in a
22:46
position to that so implizit in the Nationals Programm was AD
22:50
russianization of of of the Easton u Crane.
22:57
And that man, the priving them of the language you so the
22:59
language and and other very repressive measures they want to
23:03
to you crane i is the russian ucrane and ultimately that's did
23:09
in val acture geting rid of them will killing them so they was an
23:14
very nossty so the program nationals program on the on the
23:18
surface and and that was one of the things the russians and to
23:22
be in to provent. Was this is synical program?
23:26
A lot of the nation this problems now i think you you can
23:30
traced you know this moment starts outside you crane in the
23:35
19 twenties, the 19 thirties nicolo petro as rickon very very
23:42
it ascolally where about to this and you realize that these we're
23:48
what we're are it these we're you cranian to one to in ukraine
23:51
that we a very anti russian, but they are in cooperate to in
23:54
ukraine in 19 fortifi. And they will they drumped all a
23:59
truly independant, you crane and nationals integrate you know row
24:03
a like i think some of the nineteen centry nationals
24:09
momance that they believe that that that are hudden.com and it
24:15
it it should.com and the disintegration of the
24:19
sowjetunion gazen that chance. And and so they want interested
24:24
in fedralize in u crate or crateing assistance with a love,
24:28
the different elements of the u crane to live to get the
24:30
harmoniesly they want to to liquidate he's elements that
24:33
we're in the way of a truly nation is you crane and of kuls,
24:39
um things of got to lot nostia. In the twenty centry then they
24:44
were in the nineteen centry with this all, the romantic buse of
24:48
national is them libral national is them it was sultan in unit
24:52
that elements the fashions, um in this and in that sense the
24:59
Russian is what hundred Prozent Rong insane that one of the Ames
25:03
was to d notsify ukraine, there was a history that.
25:10
Like the Galition nationalists of Ukraine, one hit nato and the
25:17
west a strong ukraine and they got a weker ukraine is that the
25:23
result of a good poesy. We'll they go to weker ukraine
25:29
because they provoke to ration reaktion.
25:33
I'm they can carry that program very far with that russia so to
25:38
intervening to stop it. So the results of beenquard
25:42
paradoxical I'm in Russia has unwittingly streng von Nato
25:48
because It's got tweditional members Finnland und Sweden and
25:53
so the blies to go. He's if talk so Russian miss
25:57
calculator, but the nation is grusly miss calculator that
26:01
streng and again they will diluded I'm in they will parky
26:07
to see it by the west. Two thousand forteen Midam I
26:12
don't belief it was just orchestated you're contap popla
26:17
r rise insuture completely orchestated by someoneals that
26:21
was some feeling that, but if kuss i think the Americans
26:25
poticaly they in carage it and they in carage the hobs.
26:30
With that that uprising gay rise to i think it's kind plosible
26:36
that snipers we're but that to actually be ashum provocator all
26:44
of that is still, so it's a history we one one they unrevel
26:48
a lot of this, we will prisoners of these narratives
26:52
missinformation disinformation what's to what happen the
26:56
butcher. What happen in butcher and which
27:00
roll plate MIX. Yeah.
27:02
I know I know I know I know we the the International Relations
27:11
havewill.com incrusing me opeke and social media in carits that
27:18
the Fed of the official media a so depend as so one sideed.
27:24
The people go to the unificial medion try to find out what's
27:29
happening. It's very you have different
27:31
stories, i don't know what happened that guture i don't
27:35
know for sure what Morris johnson Sand we user branes to
27:41
so to work up the most plosival story we can but we have to
27:47
actuit think about these things i'm on verry pessimistic about
27:51
the fact at. The.
27:54
People to the holtime about making things transparent the
27:58
holt point of democrasies to make things transparents and
28:02
account to but the social media we'll make things more
28:05
transparent infekt, that's we'll.
28:09
Play Uplaing the British Media in aligning the public with
28:14
state given generative. 100%. 100% who create the narratives
28:24
weather, it's the, it's there's a so unholy alliance, the main
28:28
media and the and and the government intelligence services
28:33
off and they have the same personal who's of a former
28:38
millitry intelligence people right for the media and it's not
28:45
clar, it's not clar hulies hum. The narrative is crateed by the
28:51
media, but because it's not it's not the politicians independedly
28:59
crate. The narrative is it's a is a
29:01
wase coms from outside of them the politicians adoped and then
29:05
then to feed the narrative so i don't know it is, it is quite
29:10
complicative, but the media have surteneve rean forst the view of
29:15
a ficial Briten live supported it.
29:18
And it means that people like me and one of to have as contrally
29:23
get published in the mainstream media and ilonga.
29:26
You're consil will cansil what you see that the mainstream
29:30
media started. Thirty is a go to prepared the
29:35
public for war again stressure. I want I know you men to you set
29:41
sugest to that. I'm not should that's true that
29:45
he's a go, we're what we're that to we're nine to nine.
29:50
I don't think so i think just was a peared of so relative
29:55
optonism about the future, russian the future Russian
29:59
relations with with the west bler so the was all the positive
30:07
about the osibility that i start it or a co found it something to
30:12
the angle russian society in. Nine to nine to nine two thousen
30:21
what was an temp to get a dialog going between some leading
30:25
russian is a unleading british people.
30:28
The opening meeting was a dress by black, we're this is a grate
30:33
initiative, we're must get into close a relations, a russian
30:37
talk to them the hota so it it it was founded with the
30:41
following wind. And in two thousand, two
30:44
thousand and one there was this feeling that russia was a
30:49
potential. Allight it Putin help the
30:53
Americans in Afghanistan and we believe that he's sujested to
31:00
george robitson who is then secretry general of nata britis
31:04
Secret General Nata the Russia Cojoin nata and apparently
31:09
robitson. On the instructions from is as
31:12
political masters that well apply apply.
31:18
But think's changeed yeah why? Why to think's change?
31:24
There's such me changeed in the two thousens really two thousens
31:29
was it because there was in or autokratic ton in the Putin.
31:35
Government i think the disicive change of there.
31:39
I'm in that was the world was changes and we have events in
31:42
the two thousands Putins two thousand seven speech, the
31:45
bookerest you know i promise this things will go on, but i
31:50
think the disicive thing came in the in in in the two thousand
31:54
and tenelection because between two thousand and was is seven
31:58
and two thousand seven medveda was President and I'll know he
32:02
was. Not regarded as toky independed
32:04
he was more considiutry i remember that i remember toking
32:09
to mit vid of it that time and he he was and the walmanga that
32:14
he that has now be com he was actually deeson civilize you can
32:19
have a deeson civilize conversation the them about the
32:22
future, then i think they was two thousand and eleven.
32:26
And then things got serici saw so i would i would but i what
32:31
and dated quite from thirtee is. I'm not need evidance that you
32:35
not we not have the evidance but i don't think they will
32:38
preparing for what as arely. As that he is a go.
32:42
We'd Roll Plate, the Nato countries in destroing the
32:47
International Law you we're a nopponent to the strategy
32:51
bombing sobia in nineteen ninee nine at be at the same strategy
32:57
in Afghanistan, and we had it in the second.
33:00
I Rock war so this is what Putin the a mansion he.
33:05
All a set so. The West destroyed.
33:09
The International will. You see, it's not quintus
33:14
symmetrical is that because they what interviewed in Serbia and
33:20
and and you just up because it was breaking up and they felts
33:23
to the disoda and the wall what's spread round you know the
33:28
rest of the bulkans and they was and actual wall situation with
33:33
irak of cours, the hot been a wall and.
33:39
They field that he have weapons of master strutch and we'll they
33:43
we'll they really field so not i don't know that was evidance was
33:47
prideed for to people like bla and bush that that I'd I'm set
33:53
I'm can't had weapons of master struted then irak, you can't so
33:57
was a respons to the boming of new York in two thousand one so
34:02
you're can make it in to. Into war of self of at non of
34:06
these non of these reasons of really plosible completely
34:11
plosible, but where it's not kind symmetric is it's very hot
34:17
for russia to say that in two thousand and twenty two.
34:23
You crane was such a danger to russian security.
34:26
Astro Justifie the special operation you can see that lots
34:30
of things about you crane that they don't like and that was an
34:33
insipian civil wargame on and so on, but it's not quite to sape
34:39
so i will was was argue that russian should not of invadeed
34:44
you crane in two thousand twenty two that was still scope for
34:48
diplomacy, but of cours. That have to be diplomacy on the
34:52
all, the side as well, i'm in Biden have to be all suped to
34:56
tulk and of costack was and the. Biden was deply in Wolf
35:00
personally and his sun was deply in Wolf in monnie Making and
35:05
money landering in Ukraine. He was the president of a
35:09
conflict party and he refuse to naglesia with Russia Russia
35:14
proposes to peace proposes. I'gre i think i think that the
35:22
west ignored diplomacy for a long time, they simply what and
35:28
they what in talk, I'm in they want to to enjoy the fruits of
35:32
the victory, they don't see i they should talk at russia
35:38
arussia have to so to fit the rus of the game as they like it
35:42
down. And there was there was no real
35:46
scope for diplomacy, they tulp to russia when russia was wicka
35:50
because then they face you know russia with more as do at they
35:54
like as us rushic at strong and more surter they stop tulking to
35:58
russian develop rus of phobia i can III find it tragic story and
36:05
tragic for the people of loss there lies i viel.
36:08
Particular moved by this 1000000 people killed a woned it in an
36:16
unesseseriwall i're Green was Trump it was unesseseriwall.
36:20
And was Trump, was Präsident Trump Things changed Trump
36:25
Things. You're crane brings no return of
36:29
investment to one to europeanized the war all to stop
36:32
the war. Now we have a new peace plan of
36:35
Mr. Trump was twentyade Poins do you have how for peace?
36:41
If I'm I think Trump that breakup the stagnant situation
36:46
and i get you hud credit for that hud credit what ever his
36:50
motivs and i an i perfity proped to belief that he generity one
36:55
to peace it was an just to get the nabel price it was an just
36:58
to get a american investments in new gran that was an actrum
37:02
genuin motive and he breakup he he was the first one to talk to
37:07
putin in fiveeers right. And it was all was going to be
37:13
diffical it was have a going to be a twenty for us and more
37:17
plosible is his clane that have he bean president the war what
37:20
in to start it, i think that is as a plosible at itment in it,
37:25
but you know twenty for us and have a going to do it but he was
37:32
trine to makepease against the background and which the russian
37:37
so a lesson last reason. To make peace because they will
37:42
wining the wall and so what can he what can he do is an
37:49
infusment the raffance to stop the wall free the wall at the
37:53
existing seas file 1 that was this problem always I'm putin
37:58
new that it was a metro monts. 6.
38:02
Monsmagy before you crane collapse so one should he one to
38:06
in a go shate it peace one he can't a chief is maximalist ames
38:11
so against that Trump hat to so to so he tride to do it will the
38:16
mixed of threats mixed of inducements the a lou of
38:21
bringing russia back in to the in to the superpal League also
38:26
also also also you know a member you could to g 8.
38:32
And you're not treating Putin as representative of a grate pa so
38:37
this that was an important induce and the recovery of this
38:41
status of the russian lead on the russians is, but it main out
38:45
to be in off because the ishual so was how to pistoid or how to
38:53
induce the ukrainians. To two to the russians in a
38:57
realistic right when you're was still so, so sign you're
39:01
musresist you're musresist we're go on supporting you will take
39:05
the fries in assets, so we're with the millitry the you know
39:09
then ons you need and all that's so the stop so it was all is a
39:12
difficult it was all of the ioways thord the china should a
39:16
beam broad some how in to this picture to bring a bit of
39:20
pressure on russia because china that in one esculation i the.
39:26
I don't know how i with a handle of diplomacy or oh, oh all the
39:30
dicon sate was very very diffical, but the 18 point p
39:35
plat is 18 o twentiate point for get with, but the ps plat is a
39:40
basis is a basis for seris negotiation.
39:45
It doesnt conceed maxmal is russian demons it's a concees a
39:49
lot of them, it is shoes you amalco he's if you crane rid of
39:55
the the russian bits that want to go to rush annie with and
39:59
with security garanties not in nato, but it equivalent nato so
40:05
that that's something that it is important and.
40:09
It Promi System bring with killing to end.
40:12
Can you re call the truffal points of this p plan of Mr.
40:15
Trump? Well, i in one of them was that
40:21
that be limitation on on the size of you.
40:24
Crane in Army, 600 thousand and on the was that Russia what
40:29
retane Crime mehr. And the bits of the don't bus it
40:33
controll the really and the rest.
40:36
What be the subjective somnigarations and and that be
40:40
do's somdemilatrice peacekeeping in this aries that would be no
40:47
reperations i'm no reperations that be as phase with drol of
40:52
sanktions and that be no will criminal trials of the russians.
41:01
Mant most of the stings or not you Crane, I'm new crane was and
41:06
properta conceane them x antae what they can be in just to
41:10
accept them and to the pressure haunt fats, what is that it was
41:16
lousing the wall and like it to lous it series and the this was
41:20
the best sult of deal they can get that is the isio because.
41:27
It what is the lensky conduit? I have my downs he my i'm he
41:32
promised to much and he has an be nable to the live so and also
41:39
he's in snat by corruption and you know people realizing that a
41:45
lot of you know a lot of he's a closes so coin rich them soles
41:49
syphandov some of the aid in to there and popins.
41:53
So he's a bit he's a tonished figure i think and that mainin
41:59
that he could intakt. He do it, but then someone els
42:01
will do it in his play. Do you expect that mr.
42:05
Putin and the cramlin what except the main poins of this
42:09
peace plan? Well, photin is that it's not
42:16
bad. Now they're what int accepted
42:18
that they're in the the things to be in agociated i'm in the
42:21
security structure has to be in agociated the exact i'm they
42:26
would proferted simply take of the regions, the Devil ready,
42:30
I'm anax and referend of rich have I'm express of a welling
42:37
support for being part of russia they would profo that that was
42:41
don and and and and more. More definit security garanties,
42:48
but that's so that one to i think.
42:51
I think the idea that they want to to control the government to
42:56
you. Crane is not bright, i think
42:59
they would they want to a subservied government, so a
43:02
government that is an game tractory joinator all so that be
43:07
very host out that that's part of the buffa that's part of the
43:12
buffa strategy, i think will Miss in turpre.
43:16
It Putin as wantin to risto Imperial Russia with means
43:21
astonia lil I'm in the the the boltic States Georgia Moldova,
43:27
and we we we credit him we the i just one see can get he's way in
43:34
you crane he will then go on to these out of the projects i
43:37
don't reed him that we i i'd i'd and they'd you'd go to the
43:43
boltics the boltic support of native.
43:47
So he will be satisfight with this kind of legacy that he's
43:53
prevented ucrane from joininator and prevented the operation
43:58
unpossible genoside of the russians in ucrane.
44:03
I think that legacy will be what he ne what he ons what.
44:10
Do the europeans fight trumpspase plan.
44:14
Because they want to make them sos relevant when they're
44:16
actually irrelevant, they want to insert them sos in someway in
44:22
to prozess of which that not part because it's USA russia and
44:29
you crane that the actes and europe is noa so that despert
44:36
effits that resurance is a failed.
44:40
They they have nothing outs to off, that's plosible so what
44:44
they have be in trying to do is to creator situation with peace
44:48
bekomme's impossible so act to the sabateurs think of that mat
44:55
plan to in so British German and French peace keepers in to u
45:00
crane, I'm in out of it's acture interdusing Nato in to u Crane
45:06
in a Wall. Fort by rushed provention a to
45:09
expanding how can they think that that was a series
45:12
proposition? This hole out of coalition of
45:15
the willing, it was a desperate a temp to make them so's
45:18
relative. And you have for peace in this,
45:21
your in the next you it. Ja, i think I think i think
45:24
that's a deas and hope of peace. Ja I think so II think the the
45:31
plan with was the go shate it. Like Bof Russia, I'm in as in
45:36
proudset it was in Drillia plan, it was in a gender the go shate
45:40
it by bof Russia and America office the bases of peace, but
45:45
it's so kind to happen tomorrow thirton things have to be the go
45:49
shate it and on the go shable but i you know the on just is
45:53
been broken, we i just been broken and it will go on broken
46:00
and to we get peace i think that's go to have.
46:03
Thank you very much Lord Skidelski Lord Skidelski sagt,
46:07
durch Trumps Friedensvorschläge ist das Eis gebrochen, wir bei
46:11
gegen den Strom präsentieren Positionen und Perspektiven, die
46:15
sie in den Mainstream Medien nicht hören.
46:18
Bleiben Sie dabei.