Latest / Justice For / Bobbie Jo Oberholtzer & Annette Schnee
Transcript
- justice for: Forty years ago, two women from the quiet mountain town of Breckenridge, Colorado. The only clue connecting them? A single orange sock. For decades their cases went cold until one breakthrough changed everything. Welcome back to Justice Four, your hosts, I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. Today's case is one that have not been able to get out of my head for years. Yeah. I always thought it was too complicated to tackle. Every time I thought about it, I was like, I can't do this right now. It's kinda how I feel about the Chris Watts case right now. As much as I love it and I'm going to do it one day. It's a lot. It's a lot. It is a lot. But here we are. Here we are. If you're not familiar with the orange sock murders in Breckenridge, Colorado, because I've also found there's an orange sock murder out of Texas, yes, ⁓ then you are in for a treat today. Because it's a forty year old cold case that has recently been solved. So pay close attention because every detail is going to matter ⁓ right up to the very Okay. But before we get into all that, little shameless plug. ⁓ go get your merch, go check out our website, there's resources, submit a case, all of our episodes are on there. Follow us. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, anywhere you listen so that you don't miss any updates. The follows, the reviews, they really do help. We love all the reviews that we get. Mm-hmm. ⁓ just a reminder, we are going to be at CrimeCon September twenty twenty seven. Absolutely. We have our tickets. We are applying to be on Creator Row. ⁓ So hopefully we will see you there in both capacities or just hanging out with you. Either way, we're gonna be there. And if you end up coming, ⁓ let's go get drinks. Yes. Period. Or dinner. Whatever. I like food. Clearly. Drinks, food, Disney, Universal, we'll be at one of them. And before we get started, I have to give a shout out. Ooh. Whoever you are, Hells Furby on YouTube, my dear, we love you. You are always there every single week commenting your thoughts, all of it. And we just appreciate your support. I'm pretty sure from day one she ha yeah. She, he, they, them. Sorry. I I feel like you're a she though. I'm sorry, and if you're you're a them, I apologize. Either way. But we love you. We are sorry you can't come to CrimeCon. I hope that changes. But also, would you go ahead and shoot us a message or email us because we would love to send you out something for being such a hardcore listener from day one and all the comments, everything. All the comments, everything. And we just thank you so much for your support. Like there's been multiple times that one of us will message each other, Do we know who this is? Who is this? And we're like, I have no idea. I have no idea. Yes, so please email us or message us somewhere. We would we would love to get in contact with you. Alright, are you ready for this? No. Okay. I know you're not like there's there's no other answer. Okay. Life in Breckenridge, Colorado in the early eighties was totally different from what it is today. I thought. Back before it was known as a destination for skiing, hiking, and a major tourist attraction, it was just a simple mountain ski town full of ski bums, as they called themselves. Ski bums. Bums. Ski bums. Okay. In the eighties, the town of Breckenridge had about eight hundred residents. community was pretty important to them. People looked out for one another Since Breckenridge is pretty far from any major towns or cities, people in the surrounding small towns would travel between towns for work. And I know we've talked about towns like that in other episodes. Yep. Don't worry, I have maps for you guys on maps, on maps, because there are a lot of little towns. Shooting to know. She wouldn't show me all the maps, man. I wouldn't, because they're labeled all different. So, according to a couple articles I've read, if you have seen the movie Hot Tub Time Machine, apparently that is an accurate description of Breckenridge in the early 80s. No shit. Yes. I it was mentioned in like three or four different articles. yeah. That's one of my favorite movies. It's so good. Great White Buffalo. Great White Buffalo. Fun fact Breckinridge had one of the first snowboard shops in the state. And they even built a mini half pipe ramp out in front of it, like a little mini half pipe, to help draw attention to it. And they also used to have major April Fool's prank wars. And that's what they kind of marked the end of the ski season with was with the April prank. Just April Fool's pranks. Yeah. Between the different ski shops and residents and stuff. Yeah. I'm like, this is pretty cool. Yeah. So it just was really laid back and fun back then. Hell yeah. ⁓ Twenty nine year old Barbara Oberholzer, ⁓ who went by Bobby Joe, and her Jeff moved to Alma, from Rancine, Wisconsin, shortly after they got in nineteen seventy-seven. So the town of Alma is about eighteen miles south of Breckenridge, and Breckinridge is where Bobby Joe worked in a real estate office. Period. Jeff owned his own appliance repair business, but don't let their jobs fool you. Jeff and Bobby Joe were self-declared free-spirited hippies. ⁓ Hell yeah. With a big love for life. ⁓ Hell yeah. ⁓ Since Jeff and Bobby Joe only had one car, mm-hmm. ⁓ Jeff actually used that for his appliance repair business because he'd have to go make house calls and do other stuff. Yeah, that makes sense. So Bobby Joe would often hitchhike the thirty minutes to work him back. And hitchhiking. That was acceptable. Yes. Hitchhiking was so normal back in the sixties, seventies and eighties. Especially for hippies. They loved that shit. But also in a town this small, you kind of knew everybody. And if you didn't, you were accepting rides from the same people so you got to know them and you felt safer. So these same people were kind of the ones picking people up. So I mean like nowadays terrifying. Also, back then it's the reason we had serial killers. So part of it was easy. Yeah. It's a big reason. ⁓ Even though Joe usually took rides from people she knew, ⁓ her husband Jeff wanted to sure she would be able to defend herself just in case something ever happened. So he made her this brass key holder that had a giant brass clip with a brass ring on it for Bobby Joe to keep her keys on. ⁓ And if you're only listening this episode and not watching it, ⁓ I suggest switching to YouTube pulling up our website or Facebook with all these pictures. Because there's a lot of them and I have a picture of this brass keyring and I have all the maps. I was very confused when she showed me this picture and now I understand. Yeah, like it's it's heavy duty. Like that is heavy. Yeah. She thick So Wednesday, January 6th, 1982, it was a bitter cold day with snow predicted in the afternoon and evening. Even with the cold snowy snowy forecast ahead, Bobby Joe did what she did every day. She got up, got ready for work, and then hitchhiked the eighteen miles to her real estate job in Breckenridge. That afternoon, Bobby Joe received a promotion. She called Jeff and told him she was gonna go celebrate after work with some coworkers and friends. Mm-hmm. Later that night, around like six twenty one, Bobby Joe calls Jeff from the Village Pub, which was a like bar pub restaurant in the same building that her office was located in. ⁓ yeah. And she told Jeff that she would be home relatively soon. And when Jeff ⁓ if she needed a ride, ⁓ she told him she had one. Okay. About 7 50, Bobby Joe left the pub and walked about a hundred yards south to Minimart while trying to hitch a ride. Sometime after getting off the phone with Bobby Joe, Jeff fell asleep watching TV. He woke up around midnight and discovered that Bobby Joe wasn't home. He immediately felt something was terribly terribly wrong. So he went out looking for her. He drove to the houses of her co-workers and friends she was celebrating with, knocked on their doors, and woke them up. But no one had seen her since they were all at the pub. That's a good ass husband. Mm-hmm. So Jeff drove around trying to find her. Mm-hmm. And when he didn't find her, he went straight to the Breckenridge police and tried to report her missing. Tried? Yeah. They told him they couldn't do anything for 24 hours. Such bullshit. I mean, I guess that was a fucking thing back in the day. Nope, you gotta wait. Stupid. So, not sure what to do, Jeff went home hoping maybe she would turn up her call. You know, we don't have cell phones. Back then. Not and if they did, they were giant brick ones and we definitely didn't have them in Breckinridge. Not so much in the eighties. I feel like maybe late late eighties. Not early eighties. Yeah. Yeah. So this was all just very out of character for Bobby Joe. Did you say if there's service in Breckenridge? I said and yeah, like or so there would be no service. Like there it's literally the mountains. Yeah. Good luck. Even with cell phone towers. Yeah. It's still spotty. Yeah. And she This was out of character for her. She wasn't one to stay out late or stay at someone's place. And if she ever did, which there's no record that she did, she definitely checked in with Jeff and let him know. Yeah. A few hours later, around 8 a.m., Jeff received a call from a rancher in the area who said he had found Bobby Joe's license and the contents of her wallet scattered on his property. Jeff and some friends rushed over to the property. And on the way, Jeff spotted Bobby Joe's distinctive blue backpack on the side of the road and stopped to retrieve it. Near the backpack he found two items, Bobby Joe's right glove that appeared to have some blood on it, and a tissue that also had blood on it. This is when Jeff knew something terrible had happened to Bobby Joe. So Jeff and his friends went back to Jeff's house to regroup and figure out what to do next. And since the police wouldn't do anything until it had been 24 hours, Jeff and Bobby Joe's friends Did what only good friends would do. They grabbed their cross-country skis and headed to Hoosier Pass. Period. Also, mountain ski people are crazy. Yeah, they are. They are crazy. Cross-country skiers? Weird. Nuts. Snowshoeers. Weird. But we're thankful for you. We are very thankful for you. They headed out with their skis to Hoosier Pass to search for Bobby Joe while Jeff stayed behind at the house, in case Bobby Joe returned or called. Or anyone called him with information. Yeah. They proceeded to ski Bobby Joe's route to work, and around three PM near the summit of Hoosier Pass, approximately ten miles south of Breckenridge, they discovered Bobby Bobby Joe's body laying face up in the snow, with her hands close together in front of her with a zip tie on one wrist. On one wrist? Mhm. Her body was And she was face up. Yes. Her body was about three hundred feet south of the parking lot at the top of the pass. So at the top of Hoosier Pass, there's a parking lot. It's like a viewing spot to pull off. Like I love that view, but Wilkerson Pass is my favorite view ever. The very top of that is my outfit of Wilkerson Pass. Ugh it's my favorite view in the world. Understandable. Anyway, so her body was about three hundred feet south of the parking lot at the top of the pass and twenty feet off the southbound lane of Highway Nine. Down and it was like down a snow embankment. The pass was covered in deep snow, which had been plowed along the sides of Highway 9. It was a very cold night, and temperatures got down to about 20 below zero. And it had been snowing on and off. I'm sorry, what month was this again? This is January. ⁓ yeah, cold as fuck. Yes. Okay. Once police arrived, everyone spread out to look for evidence. That's when Bobby Joe's brass clip was found in the parking lot. Investigator Jim Hartkey also found a single orange ankle sock between the parking lot and where Bobby Joe was found. Bobby Joe was wearing both of her socks and she was fully clothed. So ⁓ this sock was kind of a mystery. But sometimes happens at crime scenes. Sometimes there's a piece of evidence that doesn't make sense. Sometimes it'll never make sense, and sometimes another piece of evidence will help it make sense. Yeah. And this was just one of those times. Yeah. Well, if you think back to like the Kendrick Johnson case, they found shoes that had blood on it that wasn't even his shoes. And we don't know what that means, but one day we might. Maybe. Jeff begged and pleaded to see Bobby Joe before she was taken away by the coroner. He had to know it was her. when they unzipped the bag, he just absolutely broke down into tears and he was beside himself. Mm-hmm. Based on the evidence found at the scene, investigators believed that Bobby Joe may have gotten out of the suspect's vehicle at the top of the pass, where her brass keyring was found in the parking lot at the summit. Bobby Joe then may have run downhill along the road approximately three hundred feet and was possibly again confronted by the assailant or assailants. She then seemed to have gone over the snow embankment toward a stand of trees, stopping short of the trees and retracing her tracks a short distance. She then fell onto her back and slid down the snow a short distance before coming to rest where she was shot at close range in the chest. With a second grazing wound to the right breast. I've seen this one I believe came from the front. They both came from the front. Okay. Evidence at the scene indicated that the shooting occurred where her body was found. Bobby Joe's autopsy indicated that she was shot at close range of about one to two feet. Interesting. And the weapon used was a thirty eight handgun. ⁓ using a Reminton or Peter's copper jacket hollow point bullet. Okay. A pair of 18-inch plastic zip ties were found on one wrist, suggesting that someone had attempted to bind Bobby Joe. And there is also evidence that Bobby Joe put up a hell of a fight. Period. But since it's the early 80s, DNA testing isn't really a thing yet, so we will come back to this later. Just remember we do have blood and it does get preserved. Period. And it's not hurt. I will tell you now it's not her blood. Pretty quickly, investigators turned their suspicions to Jeff and called him in for questioning. They asked him about what he was up to on January 6th. Jeff told them that he worked his day like normal, came home, decided to shovel the snow that had already fallen. While he was shoveling snow, his friend Joe Urban was either driving by or walking by and decided to hang out for a few hours and catch up. After Joe left, he said he fell asleep watching TV, waiting for Bobby Joe to get home. Okay. Investigators weren't shy about letting Jeff know he was their number one suspect. Which is crazy while they were checking out his alibi. Which is fucking crazy, by the way, considering how hard he went trying to find her. I also want to say, I don't think I put this in here. I think I forgot to. I'm gonna say it now. It takes them years to track down Jeff's alibi. What? ⁓ because his friend was apparently like moving out of town and literally nobody knew where he was because it was the eighties and we didn't have cell phones, we don't have the forwarding address. So it took forever. And when he does confirm Jeff's alibi, the times are a little bit off because it's been like seven years or something. That's fucking And they're like, Well, I still think it's you 'cause the times were a little different. Because like who knew he needed to remember this, especially if he moved away from the area and probably didn't even hear about this until they found him. Yeah. That's crazy. But there's not actually a lot out there on that, but I just realized that like I don't think I put that later on. Yeah. I think I meant to, and I just but yeah. That's crazy though. Like Isn't it? You're just seeing someone shovel their snow or their driveway and it's just like, Hey man, how's it going? And you're supposed to remember that forever later? The fuck? Yeah. Okay. Especially if he didn't continue to live in town. Yeah. And Billy had no idea about what happened. Yeah. Ugh, go on. January eighth, two days after Bobby Joe was last seen. Okay. Frisco police. Frisco is the neighboring town to the north of Breckinridge. They received a call from a housekeeper at the Holiday Inn, who wanted to report her co worker and friend, twenty one year old Annette Schnee missing, stating that she hadn't shown up to work for two days, which was very unlike her, and her roommates hadn't seen her either. Interesting. And it didn't take long for police to piece together that Annette was last seen leaving a pharmacy called the drugstore in Breckenridge at about 4 30 PM on January 6th, just hours before Bobby Joe went missing. Huh. Twenty year twenty-one year old Annette Schnee had only lived in the area for a little over a year. She left her family and life behind in Sioux City, Iowa to start a new life in the mountains of Colorado. But she stayed in constant contact with her mom and sisters. She was always talking about her multiple roommates who were her friends and her coworkers. She worked two jobs. So during the day she was a housekeeper at the Holiday Inn and then in the evening she was a cocktail server. Period. You know, typical early twenties routine. Yeah. Annette didn't have a car. So, like Bobby Joe, she would hitchhike to her day job, then sometimes she would hitchhike back home to change and relax before she started her night shift as a cocktail sermer. This was her plan on January 6th. Okay. After she got off work at the Holiday Inn, Annette hitchhiked to the doctor's office, then she hitchhiked to the drugstore in Breckenridge, where she got a prescription filled. Around four forty-five, she just outside the store, she was seen talking with an unidentified woman. Annette was Overheard reminding the woman to buy cigarettes and the unknown woman is described by witnesses as a white female, approximately five feet five feet four inches tall, slender build, and looked as though she had been camping out for a few days. Is that what that sketch was? Mm-hmm. ⁓ the woman smoked Marlborough cigarettes and the prescription was and that's only purchased at that store. we do have this sketch ⁓ of this woman, ⁓ and to this day she has never been identified. Okay. Interesting. Annette was scheduled to be at work at eight PM night at the Bar in Breckenridge. Okay. Her uniform for that night was found at her home, leading police to believe that she never made it home to change for her night shift. Okay. While we are talking about things that happened on January 6th, for such a small, quiet town, a lot went on this night. The day after Bobby Joe's body was found, the newspaper ran an article about her, and right next to that was an article that was just a wild story about a local miner who got stuck in a snow drift on Guanella Pass that night. And ⁓ Guinnella Pass is on the east side of the mountains. So this miner, he used his headlights to signal SOS, hoping someone would see him. Okay. Which, in like Breckenridge in the mountains in a snowstorm, what are the chances? Yeah. Well, at this exact time, a commercial airplane was flying over and the sheriff happened to be a passenger on the plane and he saw the SOS signal. He alerted the the captain who radioed down to the sheriff's office. Fire Chief Dave Montoya heard the call come in and he offered to drive up the pass to see what he could do. What the fuck? Thinking it was just some dumb tourist who got stuck and the headache that comes with that, he was pleasantly surprised to see a familiar pa face. One of his co-workers from the mines, Al. Dave was just happy he didn't have to help pull a tourist out. Dave asked, What happened? And why are you out here? Yeah. And Al just sheep sheepishly admitted to Dave that he had been drinking. And he didn't want to get pulled over on the highway, so he thought he could go around using the other pass. And when he got his truck stuck, you know, he tried to get out and help, and he slipped and fell and hit his face, and that's why he had this bruise on his face, and like he was just embarrassed all the way around. Okay. Right? But it's just like this is a small town and we have two people missing, and the sheriff happens to see an SOS switch from a plane. Crazy. Right? so Annette's family immediately made the trip to Colorado to help look for Annette. Yeah. Investigators quickly came to the assumption that the two disappearances could be connected. Both women were beautiful, similar in age and features. They were both known to hitchhike often, and they were both last seen in the same area of Breckenridge. There is enough time between the two disappearances for it to be the same person or persons. Okay. Since Jeff was already the main suspect in his wife Bobby Joe's murder. He also became the main suspect in Annette's disappearance. No When asked if he knew Annette Shnee, Jeff said he didn't know her. It wasn't until he saw a picture of her later that he realized he had actually given her a ride a year or so ago. And once he came to this realization, he immediately told the police this information. And this didn't help their suspicion of him. But also good on him for being like a law abiding citizen. Yeah. ⁓ no. But then again, neither did him telling the police about a premonition he had that Annette would be found on July fourth, four miles from his house. ⁓ the fuck? And when asked why he thinks this, he tells them that he has had premonitions all of his life. And as bad as it makes him look, if it helps them find Annette then it was worth it. ⁓ no. ⁓ no, Jackie. Well, to everyone's shock, Jeff's premonition wasn't far off. Girl, what kind of drugs was he on? Annette's body was found six months later, on July 3rd, 1982, about seven miles away from Jeff's house, at Sacramento Creek, which is approximately twenty miles south of Breckenridge and ten miles south of Hoosier Pass, summit where Bobby Joe was found. no. A ten to thirteen year old boy, because I have seen so many different ages attached to this kid, was fishing when he found Anetchnee face down in the creek. Sacramento Creek is a very isolated mountain valley area. Yeah. And even though her body wasn't found until July, the cold air and water help preserve her body. ⁓ I want to stress, even if there's sunshine, the mountains is higher in elevation and it's fucking cold. All of the water in the mountains is fucking cold. Even if it's being heated by the sun and it's still not even hot enough yet, yeah. It's cold as fuck. And it was also twenty below zero that night. Yeah. And had snowed. Annette Schnee was found full clothed laying face down in the creek. Although she was fully clothed, her clothes were in a bit of disarray. Okay. The zipper on her pants was busted, her shoes were on the wrong feet. Annette's autopsy revealed that she had been shot in the back at a thirty degree downward angle. The bullet went completely through her and was never found. The weapon used was possibly a thirty eight or a nine millimeter handgun. Since no bullets or guns were found, it's unclear whether there were other shots fired that missed her. Leading investigators to a couple theories that she was either on her knees when she was shot, or she was running downhill when shot. The latter is assumed due to her being face down in the creek at the bottom of a small hill or embankment. Yeah. Although the cold helped preserve Annette's body, the water from the creek destroyed any chance of knowing for sure if Annette was sexually assaulted. But the evidence very heavily indicates that she was. Okay. Was Bobby Joe? No. Did you say Bobby Joe was not. She put up that fight. Period. She would have bit that dude's dick off. Probably. Jim Harkey attended Annette's autopsy. remember, he was the first person to believe that Bobby Joe's murder and Annette's disappearance were related. Mm-hmm. So he was in complete and total shock when he saw that Annette was wearing one long striped sock on one foot and on the other foot she was wearing an orange ankle sock. Uh-huh. And not just any orange sock. She was wearing an identical match to the orange sock found at Bobby Joe's crime scene. Mm-hmm. Not only that. When Jim spoke with Annette's mother, she informed him that she had bought Annette those orange booty socks for Christmas. Damn. This was the confirmation Jim needed that these cases are in fact connected, and that Bobby Jo must have kicked the sock out of the assailant's car while trying to escape. I'm a little confused though on I don't think I'm that confused. I'm just trying to piece it together in my head, I guess, why her shoes were on the wrong feet. Annettes? Yeah. Like I understanding that he probably removed all of ⁓ to sexually assault her, but why would he redress her? I'm wondering if while she was trying to like fight back, her shoes got kicked off. And she like either got them back on to like get away, or maybe she like kicked him or something. And yeah. Okay. We'll revisit this because there is a little bit more information later that we might be able to piece with this. Okay. But that's not all he found. ⁓ In Annette's coat that she had been wearing, he found the other long striped sock that matched The one that she was wearing. Mm-hmm. okay, I want to let y'all know that that part confused the hell out of me when I have ⁓ and listened to things about this case about why she had a striped sock in her pocket and a striped sock on and then the orange booty sock on. But then I thought about it. It was cold and snowy. ⁓ hitchhiked. Housekeeping and server shoes are not warm. No. It's like wearing converse in the snow, basically. Yeah. So she put Mobile socks on. probably had an extra pair of socks with her. Yeah. Now I'm thinking, like, whenever I do this, I will just like wear a pair of boots to work. Yeah. But she's hitchhiking. And that's a lot to lug around, especially she's gonna go home and change between her day job and her night job, and the snow's not gonna start till afternoon or evening. So just bringing an extra pair of socks to change out if they get wet is a lot easier than having to lug around snow boots that you might not need to your night shift. Makes sense. So The sock in the pocket and the sock on her foot and the other sock that confused me for so long. But I think I have some answers. It makes sense. That's just my that's my thought. That makes a lot of sense. Jim found one more thing in Annette's coat. He found a business card for Jeff Oberholzer's appliance repair business. ⁓ Yeah, so Jeff is just really not looking good at this point. But thankfully he did tell police that he had in fact given Annette a ride a year prior, which is why she had his card. He had been using those cards to promote his business for a couple years and he was handing them out to everyone. He said he probably gave one to Annette a year ago when he gave her that ride. I have business card I have random shit in I have so much random stuff. I'm not gonna lie to you. So a few months later in September, Annette's backpack was found between who's your pass and summit where Bobby Joe was found in Annette's house. Okay. Closer to the summit though than her house. Okay. Right. And in Annette's backpack was the prescription she had picked up that day, her wallet, and other identifying items that showed that it belonged to her. Yeah. Once again, there was something out of place. Uh-huh. There was a photograph of a man who looks like he has a black eye or a swollen eye, and there's no name or date on the photo. No one in Annette's life could identify the man. And Her family, her friends, co-workers, police, public, nobody recognized this man. No one knows who he is. To this day, never been identified. Interesting. Well, and then the other thing with that sketch from that woman, uhhuh, the most identifying stuff that the police have ever figured out is that she was camping in the area for a few days. ⁓ huh. That's it. And just kind of was like passing through. So with no other tips, leads, or persons of interest, Jeff remained the prime suspect in his wife Bobby Joe, and Annette Schnee's murders. Jeff maintained his innocence, and over the years he would take polygraph tests, which he passed every time. With advances in forensic technology, it would be determined that the blood found on Bobby Joe's glove and tissue belonged to a male. Jeff without hesitation gave a sample. Period. The results came back negative. Not the same blood type as Jeff. But that still wasn't good enough for local police and they still thought Jeff was their person. I'm not gonna lie to you, Jackie. You completely fucked me up a couple weeks ago. And I just keep thinking people have vials of other people's blood in their fucking arms now. I'm sorry. Once DNA testing came around in the nineties, Jeff once again gave a sample and once again it wasn't a match to the blood found on the glove and tissue. You would think that would finally get local police off Jeff's back. Of course not. It didn't. But just because the local police thought they had their guy, and it probably didn't help that Jeff never moved away from Alma, he stayed, which had to be incredibly hard for him because everyone thought he was guilty. Really? Everyone did? It yeah. The community kind of wasn't the yeah. How awful. I'm surprised he stayed then. Unless he was just home and that's where he was. Task force investigators, on other hand, explored other theories in the nineties. Okay. The possibility that Bobby Jo and Annettee could have been victims of serial killers. It was the 80s. First up, we have Thomas Luther, who is a notorious Colorado criminal and convicted killer who brutally attacked and murdered women in the Rocky Mountain region. Due to his violent criminal history and geographic proximity to Breckenridge, it made him an obvious candidate for the murders. There was only one way to find out: compare his DNA to the DNA profile. Unfortunately, his DNA was not a match. Which brings us to Tracy Petricelli. A pro it's fun name. It is a really fun name. A prolific serial killer who embarked on a multi state murder spree after shooting his fiance in Washington State in late nineteen eighty one. Fucking hell. During his timeline of terror, Petricelli allegedly stayed at a a holiday inn in Frisco, Colorado. ⁓ The exact hotel where Annette Schnee worked. Yeah. Given his history of picking up and killing victims, he became a major focus of the investigation. So, of course, they tested his DNA against the DNA found on Bobby Joe's glove. The results showed that the DNA did not match at all. You're edging me. Just like the local police, these task force investigators could care less about DNA not matching. Because now we have another theory that links way, way back to the beginning of the investigation. That there could have been more than one assailant. So the new task force theory is that Tracy Patricelli, who was known to temporarily pick up male accomplices to help commit crimes before murdering them. Holy shit. Because of this, they couldn't rule out the blood belonging to accomplice that he picked up that they've never found. I mean it's a good theory. ⁓ don't roll your eyes just yet. I didn't. Because in 2002, the mystery DNA profile was uploaded into CODIS where it was automatically run once a week for the next 20 years without a single hit. Once a week? Yep. even with weekly confirmation that the mystery DNA profile did not belong to Jeff Oberholzer, Tracy Petricelli. Both men remain suspects in the eyes of law enforcement. That's wild. Now you may roll your eyes at everything. I I mean the only thing I want to roll my eyes at is the fucking cops being tunnel visioned. They're just like, no, it's gotta be this guy. You know what? Maybe it's this dude. Let's stick with this guy. ⁓ maybe it's this guy. But we hold on to each one every time. Yeah, they're still holding on. All right. So now we're gonna fast forward. ⁓ Detective Sergeant Wendy Kipple. Now you may recognize her from our Maggie Long episodes. Yes. Wendy Kipple is a complete and total badass. I couldn't remember if we liked her or not. But we love her. Period. She was the sheriff for a while, she was also the county coroner, and she just so happens to be the one who solved this forty year old cold case. Period. Although Wendy grew up in the area, she was only in high school when these murders occurred. So she didn't get involved in the case until the 2000s when a new task force was formed to investigate the cold case. Hell yeah. It was Wendy who eventually suggested in 2020 that they try the genealogy route. Since Codus wasn't giving any hits after almost 20 years and being run weekly, what did they have to lose? Period. Wendy from the beginning told Jeff that she knew he was innocent and had nothing to do with the murders. Wendy believed the DNA. Which is why she was throwing out any idea no matter how crazy and new the technology was. Yeah. That's what it's for. That's why we continue to develop technology for this specific fucking thing, you know? So Wendy sent the sample off to United Data Collect in Denver, where the DNA sample was tested against public DNA banks. So think twenty three and me, Ancestry, those kinds of sites. Yep. Almost a year later, in January of twenty twenty one. Wendy finally got the call she had been waiting for. The DNA had a hit. She was given the name of two brothers, Bruce Phillips and Alan Phillips. Alright. I'm gonna need y'all to buckle up for the rest of this episode because I don't even think a lifetime movie could do this. I went passenger, is that enough? Yeah. ⁓ So Wendy reaches out to Bruce first, who told her that he never lived in Colorado. But his brother Alan lives in Colorado and has for a really long time. Aye. So Wendy decided to do some digging into Alan. To her total shock. Alan currently lives right outside of Breckenridge and owns a mechanic shop. Not only that, but he has lived in the area since before the eighties. Then Wendy saw that he has a criminal history from 1973 when he was arrested for assault and burglary. ⁓ So now she's really thinking, this could be the her guy. Yeah. But she wants to know more about this arrest. as she's trying to find his file in this case, she's just hitting dead end after dead end. Which isn't a surprise since she's looking for a file from the 70s in 2021. Yeah. when Did when computers came around, not everything got digitized into a program. Things just started to become digital. lot of police departments and smaller ones don't have the manpower or somebody who's gonna sit there and digitize all these records. We're literally trying to do this at my work right now. And it's a pain in the ass. I mean, any ⁓ police departments in Colorado have a cold case room and want us to enter them into a computer, hi. I'll cl yeah. I will. I will volunteer. You don't have to pay me. I mean I like snacks. I would like to be paid though. But I also wanna just read everything. I think it would be fun. this her to ⁓ the Archives. Uh-huh. ⁓ and she didn't know what the chances were gonna be of finding this file because years ago there was a fire that destroyed a lot of files. Of fucking course there was. ⁓ But didn't deter Wendy. She was determined, even if it meant going through every drawer of every filing cabinet, which is exactly what she did. Well Almost every drawer because in the very last cabinet, in the second to last drawer, almost to the back, she finds a file labeled Alan Lee Phillips. Dude, it's always always always that. She opens the file to find a signed confession by then twenty two year old Alan Lee Phillips himself, stating that he saw a woman hitchhiking on the south edge of Breckenridge. He stopped and gave her a ride over to Fairplay. He goes on to describe what he did to her. Alan said that he stopped at an empty cabin along the road, pulled the girl from the Jeep, and then picked up a rock and used it to hit her several times. When asked why he did it, he simply responded he didn't know. He doesn't know why he does this. Alan only served six months for the assault and was released. Was it more than just hitting her with a rock? I think he didn't get further than that because she talked him into letting her go. Good on her. ⁓ Yeah. soon as Wendy read this, ⁓ she right then and there this was their guy. There was no more question. Yeah. Then she discovered that someone had actually called in a tip about Alan in two thousand five to crime stoppers, in relation to the orange sock murders. ⁓ But the information in the tip could never be verified, so it didn't go anywhere. I wanna know what it was. I do too. I can't find it. Fuuuck. Wendy knew that she had to take her time do this right. Yeah. Alan couldn't get away with this twice. They didn't want to spook him by getting a warrant for his DNA or talking to him too early. ⁓ bro. So they began surveillance on him. Sonic bag. Waiting for him to throw out some trash that they could get some DNA from. But this turned out to be a lot harder than they thought it would be. Ugh. Alan was a bit of a hermit, and he never took his trash out. They didn't know where he put his trash, but it never left his house. Did he eat it? Don't know. Jesus. Finally, after five weeks of surveillance. Alan went to Sonic. But he didn't throw out his bag when he was done. So they followed him to the post office, where they watched him get out of his truck with the Sonic bag in hand. But when he came back out, he didn't have the Sonic bag anymore. After Alan left, they rushed in and retrieved the bag. Luckily they were they were able to retrieve DNA off a napkin he used. And what would you know? His DNA matched the DNA on Bobby Joe's glove and tissue. Wendy got to be the one to put him in handcuffs. She said that Alan was genuinely shocked that he was being arrested and charged with two counts each of first degree homicide, kidnapping, and assault. ⁓ Why would he be shocked about that? Because immediately proclaimed his innocence, saying he had nothing to do with the murders. ⁓ Right. Totally. ⁓ After the news of Alan's arrest broke, now retired fire chief Dave Montoya put two and two together. And that's when he approached Wendy and her team with a very interesting story. ⁓ I have already told y'all. ⁓ You remember back to that night Bobby Jo and Annette went missing? Uh-huh. And there was a local man who got stuck on the pass, and the sheriff just so happened to see his SOS from a plane. I knew it. You said Al and I motherfucking knew that shit. If you recall, Dave was glad to see his coworker from the Mines Al, or as we know him, Alan Lee Phillips. I almost said something and I was like, no, leave it, leave it. That's fucking wild that they put both articles next to each side. Dave was now realizing he helped a friend get away with murder for 40 years. He even said, Wow, was I stupid for believing his story about slipping and hitting his head on his truck? He said that if he knew then what he knows now, he would have left Alan on that mountain that night. I guarantee his face was fucked up because Bobby Joe hit him with that fucking keychain. That's exactly what they believe is that Bobby Joe hit him with the keychain and busted his face. ⁓ Because she fought back hard. Hindsight is always 2020, man. Go on. I'm frustrated. Isn't that crazy? That's wild. Crazy. Jesus. Like you committed two murders. You get stuck on the pass And I believe Dave said something like, You get stuck on the past. Like you do this thing and you get stuck, and God gives you the grace of being saved. Yeah. Like, what kind of world is that? The sheriff. saw you SOSing from a plane wild. Like I feel like that was the universe being like, sheriff, look at this. Fire chief, look at this. Open your eyes. How did nobody put this together? But it's because he wasn't on Hoosier Pass. He was on Gwenella Pass. And I think that's what did it. Ugh because they if they if he would have been on Hoosier Pass, I think it would have been different. Prob probably. Bro So August 31st, 2022, Alan Lee Phillips' double murder trial began in Fairplay, Colorado. Annette's sisters and brother flew in from across the country to be there. Jeff and Bobby Joe's family were also in attendance. Uh-huh. The trial lasted about two weeks, and the entire time Alan just sat there stoic and emotionless. Okay. The prosecution had a solid DNA case. Uh-huh. They had Alan's DNA on the glove and tissues, on Annette's clothing and Bobby Joe's clothing. They also had the orange sock found at Bobby Joe's crime scene, and it only had Annette's DNA on the inside of the sock and Bobby Joe's on the outside of the sock, solidifying the connection between the murders and the crime scenes. Yep. Of course, none of this stopped Alan's defense team from shifting all the blame to Jeff, saying that he was the prime suspect for decades, and the DNA sat for so long and was handled by so many people, it's impossible that the DNA isn't contaminated. And they absolutely laid into Jeff on the stand. And everyone just felt so bad for him. Yeah. But also at the same time, I don't care how many people's hands touch that stuff. Jeff's not a police officer. He didn't touch Bobby Joe's body, her clothing. He touched her backpack and things, but that's not the stuff that we're referencing for this. Yep. He touched the tissue and he touched the glove, but guess what? His DNA wasn't found on that. Yeah. So crazy. On Thursday, September fifteenth, twenty twenty two, after four hours and forty five minutes of deliberation. ⁓ The jury found Alan Lee Phillips guilty on eight charges pertaining to the murders of Bobby Joe Oberholzer and Annette Schnee. Eight charges. So two counts of murder, two counts of kidnapping, two counts of assault, two counts of probably Holding someone against their will, like kidnapping people. Yeah, yeah. Judge Stephen Groom. Groomet Groom. G-R-O-O-M-E. Groomet? Groomet. Let's make you fancy. It could just be groom. ⁓ Sentenced Alan to two consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. Period. He was seventy ⁓ Seventy at the time. Okay. Seventies in his seventies. He then addressed the families Annette Schnee and Bobby Joe Oberholtzer He said, I wish you the best and hope the healing starts today. That was the end of it. There is more to it, and that's really like all I could keep seeing, like response like finding in there that like he hopes that like finally, like he wishes them the best and like can move on from this and start healing after 40 years of trying to figure this out. Alan said that? No, no, no, the judge. ⁓ Sorry. That's why I was because I thought you said Alan the judge said. Okay. I'm not that upset anymore. The families did have victim impact statements read by the prosecution, but I want to add all the content of them when I talk about our victims. Okay. Unfortunately, Alan Phillips is a little bitch who never took accountability for his actions and maintained his innocence and died by suicide in prison on February twenty-seventh, twenty twenty three, less than four months after his sentencing. ⁓ And Personally, I just don't think that's what innocent people do. Do you know how? No. Before we get into justice, I want to talk more about Bobby Jo and Annette. Although these two never met in life, They're gonna be forever connected in death. Yes. Two families brought together under horrible circumstances, both committed to getting justice for their loved ones. Annette's mother and younger siblings struggled in the years after Annette's murder. Her younger sister struggled a lot during her disappearance and after, stating that their mom didn't stop crying for six months. Same amount of time it took to find Annette's body. Speaking of her mom, she was eighty nine years old when Alan was finally sentenced, and this is what she had to say. And that was so beautiful, so loving, and everybody loved being around her. I miss my daughter. I was never to see her grow into a woman, start a career, and have a family. But I can finally be at peace knowing that the man who took all of that away will be going to a place he deserves to be. I'm eighty-nine years old and I've waited forty years for this day to come. end quote. I'm very glad that mom got to see this and was mentally present enough and and had that about her. It's just that that was very touching. I really And I guarantee that impact statement was a lot impactful. You know what I'm saying? We've already stated Annette was absolutely gorgeous. My gosh. As she showed me pictures, I like, ⁓ my god, she's so pretty. She did do some modeling, which is no surprise at all. No fucking surprise. She was an absolute joy to be around. She made friends so quickly and was always there for everyone. One of Annette's sisters named her first daughter after Annette. ⁓ good. Which I just think is just a wonderful way to honor her and to keep her memory alive. Yeah. And it's just beautiful. Yeah. another thing that I love from her younger sister is that she ⁓ quoted multiple times saying, It was such an honor to be her younger sister. I'm so glad that like I had that ability to be that. Yeah. You know, I'm like, that's just so sweet. Bobby Joe Oberholzer, like Annette, was absolutely gorgeous. She had this love for life and people that was contagious. She loved her job. Beautiful long blonde hair. ⁓ she was gorgeous too. ⁓ Yeah, sure. And she like in everything you saw on her hat, on her wedding dress, you could see her in like her sweats. I'm like, you're just you're naturally pretty. No matter what you do. She was excited about her job promotion. She loved her job. Even though she was just a receptionist at the real estate office. Like I She's moving up from that though. Yes. I feel like she was interested in the real estate side and was working to become that. Yeah. Her and Jeff were young and they had so much life to live. Jeff never moved on to remarry. He said you can only give away all your love once, and he already did that. Ugh. So one thing I haven't touched on at all is that Bobby Joe actually had an eleven year old daughter from a previous relationship before she married Jeff. And her daughter lived with them in Breckenridge at the time of the murders. ⁓ bitch. Her name is Jackie. And she's not mentioned anywhere at all. Yeah. In fact, she is not mentioned until Alan is arrested. law enforcement and media decided very early on to leave Jackie out of everything. Good. And just focus on the timelines. And since Jackie was home all day and was asleep that night when Jeff went out looking for Bobby Joe, they saw no reason to include her. Not only that, but in the following year's forty eight hours and unsolved mysteries, they also decided to leave her out entirely. Even podcasts that I've listened to that are only a few years old don't even mention her. I didn't find out about her until last night. When I was going through videos to find for this episode for clips. Yeah. I actually confused her victim impact statements with Annette's younger sister. ⁓ shit. I had it quoted in here wrong because a news station had it quoted wrong. Damn. in a few statements that Jackie submitted to law enforcement after Alan's arrest and to the prosecution for sentencing, Jackie talked about how incredibly hard it was for her growing up without her mom. She suddenly could no longer relate to her friends or other kids her age. The constant unknown of who did this to her mother and the fact that they were still out there. Jackie went on to have at least one daughter that is known. She said that her daughter has her mother's eyes, ⁓ every time she looks into them she sees her mom. Which isn't surprising considering Jackie looks just like Bobby Joe. Something she struggled with a lot after her mom's passing. I bet. All of this that I just told you makes the focus on Jeff so much worse. Absolutely it does. I believe because there was so much focus on him not having an alibi yet, their daughter was home that night. She was eleven. It's not like she was five. Yeah. I'm sorry, my kid's thirteen at eleven years old. You would have taken her at word if Mike was home all night. Absolutely. And what he was doing. Absolutely. That friend being over there. All of that. Yes, absolutely. She was home. And like the fact that she's literally not mentioned anywhere for thirty nine years until they like forty years. Like he there is no mention. And I just that explains why Jeff stayed in the area. That explains why Jeff kept going back home. Yeah. And he didn't go up the mountain to look for her. I thought it was because he really needed to stay and watch those phones. He was at home with her daughter. Even though he wasn't her dad. You know? I understand why they left her out, but also I don't understand why they focused so much on him ⁓ knowing they had a kid. That they had a kid that was, you know? Yeah. That I just feel like I'm so proud of the media and law enforcement and all of that, but at the same time, why were we still focusing on him so heavy with that information? Yeah. But of these women's lives were cut way too short. Annette never had the chance to get married or start a family or live all the adventures she wanted to. Bobby Jo never got to watch her daughter grow up and get married. She never got to experience the joys of being a grandma. Both of these women had such life to live and experience, but their memories live on with their loved ones and here with us. And she beat the shit out of that guy. She did. She did. Fuck ya, Bobby Joe. So let's talk about justice. Okay. Did we get justice for Annettee Schnee and Bobby Joe Oberholtzer? Ultimately, yes, we did. Yes, we ⁓ It may have taken 40 years, but he was sentenced, and now we don't have to deal with appeals. Period. So that's nice. Small silver lining. ⁓ there is a lingering question still from law enforcement. Are there more ⁓ The general consensus is that there most likely are more victims. They even have a He may be a good candidate for. And that is why I think he killed himself so quickly after sentencing. That makes complete sense. Because now that they have him for this and they have his DNA, what other murders could they be comparing DNA to? What else could they go back and being testing? What else can they be looking at? I haven't really found any listings of like what they think, yeah, who or what cases. ⁓ and I didn't really look into other missing people around that time in those areas. But since he did stay around in that area and there's other stuff, ⁓ I also would not be surprised if there was more victims. Yeah. Especially because he got a look at how much he got away with that night. Yes. that night either showed him that he could get away with anything or it scared the shit out of him enough to never do it again. But I don't think it was the second. I agree. I don't think it was the latter at all. I very much believe he probably read that news article and was like, the sheriff saw me. The fire chief came and got me. Believed everything I said. I can keep doing this. He did go on to get married three times. Yeah. He did have some kids. His daughter spoke at sentencing ⁓ and ⁓ express her like her sympathy and empathy for the family and all of that. ⁓ thank God. But in the same breath, she also was like, he's a good man. He raised us with morals and ethics, and he was a good guy. Like he did a horrible thing, but he's still a good person. So it was like they recognized the pain and what this family went through, but at the same time it kind of felt like, but what about us? Like now we have to deal with it kind of thing, you know? What about us? Yeah, it was kind of weird and I don't really know how I feel about his daughter speaking out about how good of a dad and man he was at this thing is though maybe he was. Maybe he was a good dad. Yeah, and so was BTK. And so were other serial killer dads. That still doesn't mean they aren't pieces of shit exactly without you knowing. But I just don't feel like that was the place. I give that sentencing you can make your statement for your family member to get a life of sentence, but I'm sorry if my dad is seven years old and gets convicted of killing two women. I'm I'm not gonna stand up there and tell everybody how great of a guy he is. I'm gonna be like, well, don't fucking murder people. Like you know what I mean. What a fucking idea. What a concept here. But yeah, so that's the orange stock murders in Breckenridge. That's crazy. ⁓ Crazy crazy. It's the the plane connection and how to tie that all in has where I'm like, This is too complicated. I can't do this. Yeah. 'Cause that's the part that always made this seem so so like such a big case. When you fucking said Al cause you told me everyone's name while we were looking at pictures, I was like, is it? I was like, no, there's no way. And also in my head, I I don't know why. I thought you said he was eighteen. ⁓ I don't Okay. So I don't know why in my in my brain I like, ⁓ he's just a young kid. ⁓ and then I was like, No, it can't be. It can't be And then you said I was like, ⁓ god damn it, goddammit Yeah, this I mean, from the first time I ever heard this on a podcast, yeah I it has always, always stuck with me. And then I heard an update about it being solved and I was like, ⁓ my gosh. I remember seeing news articles come out when it got solved. ⁓ and like for the trial and everything, but I never did my own research onto it 'cause that's before I really started like Not just like reading like headlines and what article and being like, All right, yeah now we consume everything. And also You said twenty one, twenty-two, right? Mm-hmm. So I was very much still trying to follow. We had Gannon going on. We had a lot Suzanne. We had Suzanne, we had fucking Kelsey Barrett, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, we had a lot of them going on there. Too much happened. There was a lot happening back then. Stop. ⁓ You know, just as the trend of Convictions getting overturned right now. We have a trend of kill cold cases, decades old cold cases getting solved with genealogy. ⁓ I feel like we're gonna have a lot more of those going. With the ⁓ Yvonne Missy Woods C B I update that we gave you guys this past week. I have a feeling we're gonna have a lot more of these. ⁓ either. Or the past couple of weeks. Yeah, conviction overturns ⁓ some shit's about to go Down. Yeah, and hopefully we're gonna start covering those some of those cases. We did have somebody comment that their dad is one of those cases. we are still trying to get contact with you. ⁓ Hit us up, please. Please. So yeah, we're gonna have more of these coming out of Colorado. I've been on a Colorado kick this season. I really have. Yeah. But anyway, make sure you're like, follow, to everywhere. Justice For Podcast, ⁓ YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Spotify, Apple. Leave us a review, leave us a comment. go ahead and interact with our social media. We always have stuff going up on there. Yeah. And yeah. Even if it's an old post, we see that shit. ⁓ yeah, we do and we respond and we're loving all the comments and all the interactions, things you guys are adding, things you guys are telling us from other things you've seen or watched. Yeah. ⁓ so yeah, we absolutely are loving this interaction. Keep it coming, guys. Please. Anything else you got? I don't think so, man. Buy your crime con ticket. We'll be there. So ⁓ have a wonderful day. Have great Yep. And we will see next week. Absolutely we will. Catch you guys then. Okay. Love you. Bye. ⁓