Latest / WoT Spoilers / Shanna’har & Partings, and a Meeting - Towers of Midnight chapters 16 & 17 - EP554

Transcript

Shanna’har & Partings, and a Meeting - Towers of Midnight chapters 16 & 17 - EP554 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time spoilers.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Bloodcast, chapter sixteenth, Chapter sixteen, the symbol being the Blacksmith
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: puzzle because Paren and his puzzles.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Right, right, It's the anniversary, right, this is this is
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: shannahar means not necessarily the anniversary of your wedding, because
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: everybody celebrates it at the same time on the in
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the same time of year.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: But it also is a celebration of your marriage. Yes,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: more of the marriage than of the wedding, if that
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: makes sense, of course, But yeah, it's the annual celebration
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: of the fact that you're alive and married and it's great,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: and I mean it makes sense in a world where
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: like we've had I don't remember if it's yeah, it's
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: earlier in this series, we have a Gwain talking about
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: how dates are pretty imprecise for daily usage, like you
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: actually have to like really sit down and think about
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: it to get down to the precise day that people know.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: The calendar exists, but people don't use the day of
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the year as like a guiding light for their like
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: regular lives. It's more of a vibe. It's a seasonal
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: you know, they're they're agrarian, they have a very agrarian
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: sense of time, and they have a calendar if they
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: need it, So it makes sense that you know, broadly
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: speakers like, yeah know, like this certain part of the
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: year is when we all celebrate another year coming around. Okay,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: that makes sense.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: And this is kind of like Mother's Day except for marriage,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: where it's like you only celebrate it if you're married,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: but everybody celebrates it on the same day of the year.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Whereas you know, Mother's Day you only celebrate for your mother,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: right right, I mean we all celebrate it, but because
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: we all have mothers hopefully yes.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Well, at some point we all came from someone.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I heard they just did a thing where they took
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a skin cell DNA and was able to recreate an
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: embryo with skin cells as opposed to using actual So
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: possibility that someone could grow up without having a mother.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: For now, I don't really have a read in this
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: is a very sure what it is on the tin.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: This literally is just shan Nahar. The chapter, like Fayel
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: does some administrative stuff and then she has a lovely
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: picnic with paren where they have a very important, deep conversation, like,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I don't there's not much of a read into that
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: because we just cut to Fayeel like having a nice
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: day before the plant picnic. By nice day, I mean
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: doing admin And.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I think there's line. Paren was trying to maneuver for
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a second, more formal parlay while the White Cloaks insisted
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: on a battle. So they've been exchanging letters, right. I
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: think that's the piece of what's been going on between
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: the two armies and why they're not fighting it out
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: right now and why we have this time to do.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: This is sort of the calumn before the storm of
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the battle between Paren and the White Cloaks, where they're
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: writing each other fancy letters instead of going to war.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Apparently, yeah, well, because Gallad won't engage in the war
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: he wants in the battle that he wants until they've
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: agreed on a time and place, right, there is a
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: negotiation to going into battle the way that he wants
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: to do it, and Paren keeps saying I want to parlay.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: So they're in this really hilarious impasse where Parent can
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: just delay more or less indefinitely on administrative reasons because
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Gallad won't just attack them. He wants to wait for
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: like a clerk to manage an agreement before they attack.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It's very weird.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And then there's some recap, right, there's some people who
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: have been kidnapped. Paren was thinking about stealing them, but
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense because there's too many.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: It's not book four anymore.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not book for anymore. Thinks about Berline, how
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to deal with her, which we see
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: that happen not yet but later on in this book
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: where she they make a deal.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: And then she thinks about her origin story, basically kind
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: of reflecting on what we know of her backstory that
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: we've inferred, but looking at it as like a much
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: more mature person. Right, we don't get just more details
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: about her life than we've ever heard before. We get
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: her going huh, that's a bit of a spoiled breath.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That made no sense, and really have grown up a
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: lot since book four. It really isn't book four anymore, right.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And it does. It kind of feels like Sanderson also
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: like again because he has to tell you everything, right,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: we know all this, there's nothing here that we don't
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: know from the rest of the book, but he's writing
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: it all down in one place as a summary from
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the notes, so that you have it.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I like the part where she reflects on that time
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: she made pair and travel alone through the ways and
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: she doesn't even remember what he had done to set
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: her off. I like that piece of reflection that felt
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: necessary to show her growth.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, I like the reflection. I don't necessarily like the
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: summary of everything she's ever done.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's again Sanderson. It's so Sanderson. And he
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: describes the whole concept of camp followers and how they're
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: setting up a village around the thing, because we've seen
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that before with the Isidie camp, so we have to
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: reiterate it here.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And then we get the quartermaster.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: The quartermaster scene is pretty fun. I kind of like
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: the this is the Sanderson showing, not telling that I
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: enjoy where he actually writes this extremely granular, high fidelity
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: day in the life moment that is just so tactile
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: and visceral, and I actually enjoy it as like a
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: it's not all just handwaving. He's not YadA yadaing how
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: camps work.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: You know. It reminds me of when he wrote was
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: it Suan who went around and like checked one thing? Yeah? Yeah,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: that tick, like totally you know, you don't have to
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: check everything every day, but you do want to check
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: one thing every day and just sort of never let
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: people know what you're checking on because it helps with
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the corruption and it keeps people honest and it makes
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: sure that like they never know when you're gonna come
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and double check that they're not oh, you know, getting
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: paid to give people supplies sooner, especially the nobles.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, it totally reminded me of that, which felt
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: like an awesome callback because that lesson has also been
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: passed on to Agwayne. And yeah, so this this part
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: was very Sanderson and also very satisfying, and this.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Was basically, yeah, this Bevin is cooking the books. She's
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: not really sure how because he's very good at it,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: but basically she figured out that he's supplying one group
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: too early and like basically controlling who gets the supplies.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: When he's giving people preferential treatment based on their wealth
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: and status, and that's not the socialism that The Two
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Rivers is known for. So you know, Fayla has to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: put keep it to a dull roar. But then she
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: has you know, this whole thing. It's like, well, Bavin
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is very good at his job. He's doing this without
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: causing much of an issue or a ripple, Like I
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: can't see how he's managing it. He's very very good
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: at managing resources. So I don't want to get rid
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of him. I just want him to understand and how
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: fettered his corruption needs to be.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, He's like, you're pushing the bounds of your corruption,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: braining in just a little bit, just a little.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Bit, letting you know where the line is. I will
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: not notice anything behind that line, but if you cross
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the line, it's gonna be a problem. And Bevin's like, yes,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: ma'am right. He wants his job, he wants to balance
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: all of that, and we never hear from him again
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: because he's just a nice day in the life piece
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: of furniture rather than some sort of character being set
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: up for something later. He is, in fact, a sexy lamp.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: On the way out, she sees some scallions have gone
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: bad that she noticed on her way in. Right, So
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: there's like the dark one is rotting food right in
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: front of them. Even Paren's presence, which was enough to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: stop it from happening as much, is not stopping it
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: completely anymore.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: And we get the note here that it's been happening
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: far more, far longer out in the countryside and in
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: parents camp. This is sort of a new development that
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: this is happening more regularly. It's still remarking on in
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: a way that it isn't to the people who are,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: you know, flocking to his army saying please, if you
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: feed me non rotten food, I will be so happy.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: We were starting to see the rots following.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Them timeline wise, this is Darth rand timeline, right, parent,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: So this is why food's rotten.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because this is.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Before Banes of Gold in Parents' timeline. God, these timelines
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: are so fucked.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I like tracking the food rot as part of the
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: uh ARC though, I think that's helpful.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that is helpful. So that's that's partially
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: how you can tell that Rand hasn't had his little
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: bans of Gold moment. Is like, because parents protection kind
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: of comes from the dragon reborn and he's been corrupted.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Like all of a sudden, we're seeing more of that
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: corruption in parents camp.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Plus, the more people that get gathered under
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: parents banner, the more effective it is for the dark
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: One to cause harm to them. Right, putting more and
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: more of your eggs in one basket. That's the double
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: edged sword of parents' popularity.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: And then I like this last line, fail is talking
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: about how she feels thought she would feel trapped by
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: this life of managing a house, right, and she said,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: but what Deidre her mother hadn't mentioned was how fulfilling
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: it would be. Parent made the difference. It was no
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: trap at all to be caught with him, And as
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: someone who's recently married, I'm like, yeah, I'm all romance,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling romantic, and I'm like, yeah, it's you find
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the right person. You find the right person, and it
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a trap.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly, because yeah, that was kind of the
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: through line. We didn't really talk about it, but that
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: was the through line of Faya's reflection on her life,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: was that it had all felt so predictable that it
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: felt like it was going to be a trap. And
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: then yeah, the reality is it's not a trap. And yeah,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I as someone who's been married for a lot of years, yes,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: twenty years, it's.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Years, I'm like, I'm a newlywed, you are the Yeah.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as someone who's been doing that for a very
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: long time, Like, yeah, it is. It should not be
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: a burden to have someone that you were sharing your
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: life administrative stuff with. It should be your parts add
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: up to a greater hole that make it easier to
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: live life. Like it should not be a burden to
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: have to think about another person's needs because they're also
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: thinking about your needs and it works out. And like, yes,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: we don't have an army camp, neither of us are
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: in military general with camp followers situations, but like we
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: both have homes. You know, we're still stuff to manage,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: and it's it's yeah, teamwork does in fact make the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: dream work.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: And if you think managing life in the modern economy
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel like fucking war.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Well and then there's that tell people And.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: For me, you know, for me, I'm like I didn't
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: get married until I was in my forties, and I
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: don't have a first wife. I don't have a first marriage.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I don't have a first set of kids. Like there
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: was all I knew, every relationship I was in before
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: never was not right, you know, like there was just
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: they were hard, Yeah, and I was better off single
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and I stayed you know, that's one of the things
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I would stay single for years in between my relationships
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: because I'd be looking or someone who I thought was
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the right person. I wasn't just dating casually, and took
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: me forever to find the right person. But now I like,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: am I absolutely sure that I found the right person? Yes?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm yeah. And for me that was like I
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: knew I was going to marry Brandon very early.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: On, early on, and you just found that person right away,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: so early.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Because it was so easy. It was just so he
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: is my first marriage obviously because math, but.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: This isn't game of Roads.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah exactly, But it was just so easy.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: It was just so like from my first terrible relationship
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that was very very hard into just oh this is easy.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I think this must be like I can't imagine seeking
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: something better than this. This is peak. And then you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: live together for a couple of years was like this
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: continues to be easy in all of the important ways.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So now we'll make it legally binding. But like I
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: knew really early on because of that easy.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: So yeah, romance yay ah yeah, real love, not lust,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: not unrequested pining, but like, oh, working together to build
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: a life together is satisfying and fulfilling.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: And ease making is. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice to.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: See, and I feel like Parent and Fayil have earned
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: it as characters, right, Like the things they've gone through,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the life they've built, right, might not always be the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: most entertaining to read about, but they have gone through
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: it and come out the other side, and there is
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a very real love and affection. They've never wavered from
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: each other. And all that time, like there's never been
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a question of like, do they love each other? No
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: one's ever asked that question.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've often asked what the hell they see
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: in each other, sure.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: But not whether or not they do see it in
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: each other?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, I don't get it, but I see
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: that it's happening for sure, for sure. And then yeah,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: the only real thing lying between them is the weird,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: awkward nonsense that gets resolved in this chapter because Sanderson
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: just sits them down like a marriage counselor and just
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: makes them talk finally.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Jesus' good. Yeah, there's a little bit of that that
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I can thank Sanderson for. Is like the number of
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: times he has two characters just sit down and actually
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: say what they think, as opposed to not talking and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that's the reason for the conflict. There's a lot of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that in Jordan's Wheel of Time is people just not
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: talking to each other, started by Moraine, right, she's the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: one who like sort of set that precedent by like
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: keeping her secrets.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: So then we switch PAVs to Parin, where we will
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: remain for the rest of the chapter.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't know what we're doing, and
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: she's basically explaining this concept of the room spring a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry the Shanahar.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Shanahar very different concept. Yeah, he's waiting on the hilltop
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: for her for the picnic. He doesn't know what the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: picnic's all about, but he's waiting for her at the
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: date location because he is a good husband and shows
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: up when his wife says, I want to have a date.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: But he starts that date and what I know is
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the wrong way by saying I suck at my job.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about my job.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Yet not the most romantic opener y Daran.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And he's explaining how, like, you know, God, I feel
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: like such a bad leader because like I wouldn't give
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: myself up for these people anymore, Like back I used
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: to be willing to do that I'd give myself up
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: for just a couple of people, and now I won't
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: do it no matter how many people it is. And
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, you can't be held ransom like that.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: That's a good leader. Shouldn't be able to be held ransom.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Like that makes sense, right right?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he has this extremely perfectionistic, godlike idea of what
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: a leader has to be. Yes, like, leaders are just people. Actually,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: there's nothing divine or superhuman about leaders. They just lead
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: that that's it. They're people.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And he's like, but but I have weaknesses and she's like, yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: well you're not a drunk. Well you're not, you know, yeah,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: basically you have a lot of strengths and yeah, everybody
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: has some weaknesses. You're not superhuman. And by the way,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: if you resigned, who do you think would be the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: you know, do you think they just go back to
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: not having a leader? Well no, do you think they'd
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: elect the right person? Well maybe not. Do you think
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: you should probably do it instead? Well? Maybe? Okay? Do
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you think you maybe should have thought of this at
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: some fucking point? Parent? Ah uh? This is yeah. It's
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: like she takes him through that logic that we've all
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: been through about why parent should still be the leader
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and shouldn't give it up that he's gone through.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Before, right, right, And then also the whole thing where
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: he's like, I just want to go back to the
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: way the way life was before and just be a
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: simple blacksmith and she's like, do I look like a
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: simple blacksmiths wife?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Do you?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Because I'll pretend for a little bit, but let's be real,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: that's not the life I want. And you really should
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: have cognated that at this point, that you know I'm
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: not going to do that.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: It feels a little bit like The Green Acres if
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: you guys get that reference. That was on late night
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: TV back when I was a kid. But it was
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the woman from the city who married the farmer and
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: they stay on the farmer's estate, and so all the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: humor is that this is this high class city lady
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: stuck on the farm who doesn't want to do any
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: of the farming tasks.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: That's the plot of like a third of rom coms
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: around Christmas, Okay, weird Christmas movies. Relationships, that's like one
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: of the three things it can be Hallmark Classic.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: So are you saying, Pail Fayel and Paren's relationship is
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: a hallmark classic.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: No, I'm saying that paren keeps imagining it's going to
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: be and Fayo has to slap him and be like, no,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: we're in an HBO mini series.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: We're going to go to the city. Although I do,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I kind of hate this. At first, I thought you
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: had something special plan for our Shanahar. I grew nervous
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: when you didn't mention it, Like why what do you
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: know about Shanahar?
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: You know that's a local, like I know, I know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: it's it's a very eye of the world level. Not
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: everyone has the same culture as me. What Like, again,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: we are on book thirteen. We know that people have
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: different cultures.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: You just talked about how mature you were and how
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: much you've come far you've come and then this, this
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: feels very out of place.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: You've seen two years in the world outside of the borderlands.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You know that Shannahar is not a thing couples. Do
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: you know that?
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Right? Right? You were like last year you were like,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: why isn't anybody selling celebrating Shannahar? Like exactly. Also, No,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find any translation for Shanahar. It's like there's
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: no old tongue that it seems to the old tongue,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: but there's no.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Like really, yeah, what huh weird?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I will try again, because you seem astounded.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I am astounded.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it just means marriage celebration, right,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: because that's that it's the context.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: But I'm just surprised that Sanderson would would introduce an
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: old tongue word and not give it a definition that
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: that's just weird, not.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Have like two different words, you know, hard day, Shauna,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: marriage day. I'm going to go with marriage.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Day, fine.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Whatever.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: The other interesting thing I think here in the sort
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: of build up to their meal is when parent says,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: how can I feast while my people are being held
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: under the threat of execution and while the world itself
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: may die? You know, like, how can I possibly have
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: a good time while the world is on fire? And
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Fao says Yolo basically right, Like if the world's gonna end,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: like smoke them while you.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Got it right, right, you can't take it with you.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And you know, maybe we die tomorrow, but
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: we're you know, alive, gloriously alive today.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: It's a very important conversation to have as you face
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: down an apocalypse or three in our case. And then
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: part of course is just like do she want me
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: to yell?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: It's like, God, damn it, paren No, Obviously she doesn't
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: want you to fucking yell. She's trying to have a
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: serious conversation. How are you so dense?
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Ugh? This is the one time she's trying to meet
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you on your level, not have you meet her on hers. Right,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So of course she doesn't want you to yell because
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: she's going to the calm place to have serious discussion
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: instead of sparking an argument to get your emotions out right.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're not even listening to her, You're busy
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: wondering if you should yell. And it's oh, nonetheless, I yell.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Had a very mature take that, like, if the world's
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: gonna end tomorrow, we should probably have a good time today,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Like not to the point of making the world tomorrow
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: end for sure, but like we can't be mired in
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: gloom and doom all the time. We have to live life.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Also, so she asked Tam what the two Rivers traditions was,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and TAM's like, I don't know. I took my wife
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: on the picnic.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And Tam is, you know everyone's dad, so that basically
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: is as good as a time on her tradition, right.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It's like, of course it's an old saying I'm old,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and I said it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Uh uh huh very much so, but it's still a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: cute tradition. I mean, going on a very nice picnic
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: is very romantic. So whatever. It's like when when Ninieve
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: was like, well Land gave me a ring once and
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I read in a story that that means you're engaged
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: to be married now, right, right, even though no one
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: has that tradition, right, It's kind of one of those moments,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: like the concept of a picnic legends, phantom.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Myth also the concept of like a circus, right, the
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: big big circus that vow looks like, I wonder if
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I just made it one big ten, you know, the
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: cont like that, all of that stuff where it's like, oh, yeah,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: our modern culture is being invented here, which is in
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: some ways weird, right, because how would that survive another
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: turning of.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: The wheel, And I don't buy that. No one else
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: ever thought of going on a romantic two person picnic
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: to celebrate something like I'm sorry, but like wine and
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: a blanket in a beautiful field alone, with your partner, Like,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: how is it people think of this? People will independently
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: evolve this idea.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Right, because, like, going for a walk is a very
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: simple concept. But then you get hungry, so of course
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you're going to bring food. And if you're gonna bring food,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: you need a place to sit, so of course you
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: bring a blanket to sit on, right, Like it's all
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: very and then of course, like then you're sitting romantically
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: in a field on a blanket eating food. That's a picnic.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, Like it takes about three seconds of planning
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: to know that, like, oh, the picnics are okay. Yeah.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: The next gem from Fayel is when she tells parent
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: that he's very wolf like and he goes sorry, and
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: she says, no, I mean that is a compliment. It's
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: a good thing. It's it's actually really awesome that you
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: have this fierce, protective loyalty and focus. And this was
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: not a you know, barbed comment about your table manners.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: This is like an intrinsic thing about you that I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: think is hot and is helpful as a leader.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: And then what follows is him basically saying from his perspective,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: how he did everything wrong and from her perspective, how
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: he did what he needed to do, which was the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: right thing, which is the only thing that could have
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: rescued her and brought like She's like, Okay, I know
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: you said you did everything wrong, but you rescued me.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: You have an army that's bigger, that's loyal to you,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: that's a unification of lots of different people. So okay,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: maybe from the inside you didn't think you were doing
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the right thing, but from the outside everything worked out.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So you did exactly what you needed to do.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the fake until you make it seems to have worked,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So maybe you know, get rid of the impostor syndrome
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: at this point.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe these last few weeks you kept saying you led
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: poorly during my captivity. You'd have me believe that you
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: led the entire camp to ruin and dust, But that's
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: not true at all. You kept them focused, you inspired them,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: maintained a strong presence, and kept the air of a lord.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And then he's like, well, Beryline, and she's like, a huh,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: stop bringing up Barrelane, Stop bringing up Berline.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Probably stop deflecting from your success. That cand of all,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: do not say that woman's name on our animals. This
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: is not a work meeting. Hello, observe the neckline of
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: my dress is not a business neckline.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Not a business neckline.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sure she's where I addressed as are more seductive
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: than it is practical, you know.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: And so then he goes to reference that rumor about
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: him sleeping in her tent, and then File's like all
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the author and He's like, but but no, shut up
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: all the author like, which we do see later where
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: she comes. They become friends essentially against their will, almost.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Because they're very similar people, and that.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Does fulfill the falcon and hawk on his shoulder of prophecy.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: It's the least satisfying way that prophecy could be fulfilled,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: but it is fulfilled. It should have been a power
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Threutle agreed.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: File is like, you can fuck him as long as
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you know I'm there too, exactly because that's how they lead, right,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: is like they take turns supporting him when the other
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: one can't.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Uh huh uh huh. It's fine anyway. So yeah, Paren
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: basically decides he needs to unburden himself of all of
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: his anxieties about wolfy things, and Fyle you know, does
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: the appropriate thing, which is listen, and it's great that
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: he just says the things and she gets to hear them.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And there's no like other plots like coming through and
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: cutting up the conversation. It's just a solid info.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Dump, right, It's basically his entire story. He tells her
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: from start to finish without leaving out any of the details,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: which assuming she knows a lot of those, He's told
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: her about the Wolf before on some level, like she
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: knows he's contact with him, she knows about the dream world, but.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: He's putting it into a new context or a deeper context.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And I feel like he does get at
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the root of his insecurity, which is I cannot lead them,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: not until I know if I can master the wolf. Right.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: He has this fear that the wolf is going to
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: consume him, and that, more than anything else, is why
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: he can't lead the people, right. And I wish that
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: we had leaned into that more as opposed to the no,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if I'm ready. The more
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like I can master the wolf, and
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I will turn into a beast
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and lead these people into disaster. Like I feel like
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: if he talked about that more and thought about that more,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I would be more convinced about his like uncertainty about
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: being a leader.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, but remember he's making a mountain out of
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: a wolf hill, right, because he's like the whole struggle
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: that he's worried about is just an absolute figment of
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: his imagination and has nothing to do with actual wolf mechanics.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And kind of blame it on Moraine for not knowing
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the truth. Right. I feel like Moraine was fed misinformation
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: by the White Tower and spread that to parn Yeah exactly.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It's he's misinformed and didn't know how to ask all
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I ask the right questions and is just yeah, running
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: from a complete figment of his own imagination and Fouji
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I think, does he talk about smelling emotions in this?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's a point where she says it's
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: not fair that you can smell my emotions or something
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: like that. I feel like we've gone past that already.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I think she kind of had an
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: idea that he can like smell at least generally like
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: people and their vibe of like anxiety or tension, I think.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: But for some reason, she never really calls him out
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: on being inconsistent about that with respect to.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Her, right right. I just I think it's one of
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: those things where like you can intellectually know somebody's doing it,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: but you can't really understand how it affects their ability
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: to understand what's going on in your head and how
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: they're reacting to it. Right, Like, if you're blind, it's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: very hard to understand how someone can see and how
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: that affects you know, I feel like, yeah, that's probably
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: not a good analogy.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But well, I was just relistening to a project tail Mary,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: where it's not just a character is blind, it's that
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they never evolved site in the first place.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Right, Right, that's probably a better analogy.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, also, i've been still I'm
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: still working my way slowly through An Immense World again,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: And man, that's a good book. If you want to
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: get try to get into the head of an animal
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: with a different sense of senses than you, you really
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: got to check that book out.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: An Immense World.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I've told you about it umpteen times.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure like it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's good science. It's not science fiction. It's
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: it sounds like science fiction sometimes, but it does in
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: fact science.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't matter how many times someone tells you
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: about something. It's like you just need the right moment
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: or the right mood.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, Paren gets to the end of telling her
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: about all the things, and she says, I want to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: tell you about Malden, which he immediately tries to shut down,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: and she's like, no, I was quite what you talked,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: and he shut the fuck up. And then she tells
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: him all about Malden and it allows her to still
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: keep roll on a secret, but otherwise unburden herself of
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: just the entire story, and like it sets a lot
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: of parent's mind at ease to just like know more
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: of the details of like what happened and be like, okay,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: so there's something about that guy and this is how
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: she was mistreated by Savanna, Like it just kind of
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it helps him stop ruminating
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit because now he knows some stuff. And
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: so it's again it's an infodump we as the audience
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: don't need, but they as characters need.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And I think it's also helps him to be like, oh,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: she was going to escape on her own, like I
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you know.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: She's not a damsel in distress like she was herself.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do also like he kind of realizes that,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: like she may have felt something for Oland, but like
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: he's like, honestly, at this point, he deserved to die.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: He killed my people. He was with people who kill
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: my people. They're the enemy. Were at war, Like I
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: don't feel bad for fighting the enemy soldier in war
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and winning, right, Like you can't make like there's there's
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: zero guilt there, Like even if she did care for him,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: which I like.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: To see that, I'm really glad that he's just like, yeah,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: no feelings there, no fucks given, led to the feet
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: old in which I've grown mind fucks and behold that
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: it is barren, but that it does. That line of reasoning,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: though valid, does get him to think about the White
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Cloaks and be like, huh, seems like everyone can.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Have empathy for them.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people can have very radically different opinions about the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: same events, and that doesn't mean that either perspective is
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: inherently incorrect. They're just different.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: And he also goes that reasoning they attacked first, right,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: but they attacked the wolves first, they didn't attack the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: humans first, So there is that little bit of like
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: that's where legally he gets into trouble.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Right, and you know, I mean in fairness, that was
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: a moment in which a lot of his connection to
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the wolves was manifesting. He truly did not have control
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: over his definition of person versus wolf and parsing it
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: out after the fact and trying to put it into
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: a legal proceeding is just not going to fit well,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: it's not going to fit neatly. And then yeah, Fayla
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: says more about how I thought I should try to
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: adapt to your ways, and he thinks that's really sweet,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and then we have a nice fade to black on
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: them doing marital things.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Which I'm glad that Sanderson didn't try and include any
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: sexy scenes in respect that Jordan wasn't doing that in
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: any of his Very okay with yeah, very okay with that,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: especially having read a sanctions all this stuff. He's never
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: tried to do a sexy scene, which is fine. I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: don't believe he would be good at it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And with that, in under an hour, despite all
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: that meandering, we have completed the chapter.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And this is yeah, it ends with he had fail back,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: truly and completely right, this is there. You know, they've
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: they're done with this. Back will they won't they? Back
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: and forth like they're just loyal to each other. There's
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: no doubts, there's no anxiety about their relationship. We're done
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: writing about them. Will they won't they?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, Sometimes when Sanderson tells us things directly, I
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: don't mind. I'm okay with being told that. That is
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: in fact the end of that.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's the parent fayl arc Yayhorn. We're done.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: We get a little more. I do like the resolution
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: of the parent fayle. I think that's actually well done.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I don't like that it was a problem in the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: first place, but I like the resolution of it.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you can stick the landing on even
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: a very ugly flight path.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: So now we are jumping over to Elaine.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Well, technically Matt. This it is chapter seventeen, Matt and
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Elaine Carting's and a meeting. The symbol is the lion
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: of Ander. But we open with Matt.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Now in timeline wise, this is a little more in
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: sync with Rand, right, well or no, this is still
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit earlier in Rand's timeline because we get
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: to see him and he's probably in Eradomon in Lady
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: shade Maar's palace.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I assumed that this was chronologically ordered with respect
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: to Elaine's other scenes, which would mean that it is
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: after Veins of Gold, because last time we saw her
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: on page she was talking with a GWayne about how
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: he feels warm.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Now, right, Okay.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: So if a lanes scenes are being arranged chronologically, then
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: this has to be post Veins of Gold. But I
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: guess this scene doesn't actually include a lane. I mean
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: this this POV of Matts, So I guess there's no
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: reason for the different povs in one chapter to be
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: at the same time in the timeline. Why would we
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: do that? That's silly. Yeah, I don't know.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Actually, So, yeah, I'm having a little of a harder
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: time placing Matt's timeline. And you know, I know where
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: parents timeline is because he's witnesses Veins of Gold, right,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: so we can work backwards from there.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Well, we know that we're at the point at which
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: news of the reconciliation has arrived, because that's why the
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Isyedai are leaving, is to go back to a unified tower.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, and that happens doesn't that happen the same
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: day as Veins of Gold?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: No?
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: No, because doesn't she look up and go like she
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: sees the warmth? Or is that that's later? You're right,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: that is late.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: That's not the same day as the reconciliation. You're right
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: close to it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Because we get a flashy color swirls image from Matt's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: he's Rand and he's shaving in a fine bath chamber.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Honestly, the fact that Rand is doing his own shaving
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: and that scene makes me feel like it must be
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: post Fans of Gold, because now he's taking care of
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: himself and like doing his own grooming.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Agreed, And this is so he's probably in air domon
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: for the second time.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I would assume he's doing the whole Oh,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: by the way, I just fixed all your grain slash.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: You only opened the bad grain sax situation.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: So this is the morning after the goal. I'm attack
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: right right right.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Matt rolls out from under a wagon where he was
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: sure that the gol I wouldn't find him because it
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: was so random.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And I feel like, when was the last time we
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: actually saw him that. I feel like it's been a while.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Last time was an unexpected letter, which was chapter eleven,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: and we are now in chapter seventeen, so six chapters ago,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: not that LONGO. Yeah, Matt's in a bad mood because
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: he slept poorly and his survey man got killed. So
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: he's grumpy.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the day after even though, so
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: that we saw him Chapter eight and nine is when
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: that happened, when the golm attacked anyway, okay, and so
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: he slept under a Ludra's wagon. It basically under the
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: chemical wagon that he was chose by rolling dice, right,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: So he's being lucky. I guess I should read us
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: in on this one.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Partings in a meeting. The morning after the gol attack.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Matt woke from dreams rotten his last month's eggs, feeling
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: stiff and aching. He had spent the night sleeping in
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: a hollow he'd found beneath the Ludra's supply wagon. He
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: had chosen the location by random chance using his dice.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: He climbed out from under the wagon, standing and rolling
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: his shoulder, feeling it pop bloody ashes. One of the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: best things about having money was not having to sleep
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: in ditches. There were beggars who spent nights better than this.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: The wagon smelled of sulfur and powders. He was tempted
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to peek under the oil tarp that stretched over the
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: back of it, but there would be no point. Eludra
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and her powders were incomprehensible. So long as the dragons performed,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Matt did not mind not knowing how they worked well.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: He did not mind it much, not enough to reskiritating her.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: She was not there at the wagon. Fortunately for Matt,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: she would complain at him again for not having gotten
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: her a bell founder. She seemed to think him her
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: own personal messenger boy, an unruly one who refused to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: do his job properly. Most women had moments like that.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: He walked through camp, brushing bits of straw from his hair.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: He almost went searching for Lopan to have him draw
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: a bath, until he remembered that Lopan was dead. Bloody ashes,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: poor man.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: It's so sad.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: His rumpled appearance feels like he's mourning Lopin. Like that's
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: like why he won't get cleaned up is because he's like,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: my serving man is dead and I look like shit.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Like That's how he's sort of presenting his grief.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: You know, that makes a lot of sense. He won't
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: even like say it, but like that totally makes sense.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: He's like, I can't I can't touch that. I have
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to just leave it for a minute. This also reminds
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: me that we had some errata that Matt actually didn't
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: get Naram killed. He goes back to work for Telmnis
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: and has never mentioned again. We had that whole long
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: digression and then I still got corrected by Chat and
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: then I didn't mention it for episodes, and I'm sorry,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: bit here. Now I've put my errata in because anyway, Yeah,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Matt and her serving man situation is a bit of
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: a disaster.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw that correction and I was like, oh, yeah,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I guess that, and I looked it up. I was like, yeah,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: that's that's right. I didn't realize it. I just assumed
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: he was killed. Yeah.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: There's a lot about this podcast that's kind of starting
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: to wind out, the ability to comprehend all the things.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's so many details. I feel like, yeah,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've forgotten so much.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm smoking around the ears. So yeah, Julian is
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the first person to walk up we're sort of a
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: parade of characters in this chapter, but Juln's the first
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: one to show up, and it's like, so the Isidi
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: are leaving and me and Sarah are going with them,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: So bye.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: This is the last we see of as far as
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I'm aware.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: That bums me.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: He arrives in the White Tower, but we get a
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: letter that he and the party arrived in the White Tower,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: but we never see him on screen again. So but
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: he and Thearah I assume have a nice, you know,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: fun time in the White Tower and live without their
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: lives married.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm assuming they have an uneventful, happily ever after, right,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: That's what I want for them.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like both characters were just like around and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: nobody knew what to do them do with them for
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: the last few books, right, Like because Theara had a
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: couple of moments where like nine redeemed her for a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: little while, and like I thought she was going to
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: have an arc where she comes out of her shell
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: a little bit and does something and it's like, Nope,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: she's just still very timid. She's attached to Julian because
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: he's gonna protect her, right and that like that's as
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: far as her story ever goes, because she was traumatized twice.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she had a really tough time.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And the shan chand did the worse. She came back
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: from the forsaken, but she didn't come back from what
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: the shawn Chan did to her.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yashan Chin have heavy arid haull energy.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting contrast to Aguain though, right, Like this person,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: this queen who was supposed to be strong went through
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it and so did Agwaine and it broke one of
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: them and not the other.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Well, was she supposed to be strong or was she
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: supposed to be politically useful to the powers that be? Right?
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: This is the thing is Aguain was chosen for strength
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: and then hardened under pressure, whereas Theah was Amathra at
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: the time, was you know, playing politics like she wasn't hard.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: She wasn't supposed to be hard. That wasn't strength. Wasn't
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: a qualifying feature of those kinds of politics. So but yes, yeah,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: sometimes people don't come back from their trauma. Sometimes the
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: reality is that you just stay traumatized and that is
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: your new reality. And she found someone who wanted to
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: take care of her and have an uneventful life. So
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to assume that that's what they have as
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: an extremely uneventful and content happily ever after. But Julan
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: deserved better. He did some cool shit before and he
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: deserved to have some kind of heroic but he survives
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: kind of role in the last battle that that would
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: have been cool.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like him and Nome almost right have the same,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Like he could have been the third that went with
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Matt and.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Tom Noel Nol not wolfboy.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry, I.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Was like, what but juln is a wolf boy? I
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: don't get that at all. No.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I feel like he could have been the third, right,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: he could have been the knowl if Noel hadn't been
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Jane Farst Rider right, like right, and if that hadn't
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: been an epic ending to.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: His right, and then Matt could have done the cool
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: thing where like everyone lives because like he beats the
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: odds that hard kind of situation. Yeah, that would have
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: been cool.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Be cool because I think because because Tom and Julin
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: spent so much time together, right that like him being
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: a friend to be like we've fought together side by side.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: We're not letting you go alone, Matt. We as a
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: team are not letting you go alone. Yeah, that would
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: have been cool.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: And I do like the animosity between Julan and Vanon
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: because Vanon's a thief and Julian's a cop. Right, we
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: have this tension where it's like, you break the law,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you enforce the law. But we're on the same side
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Because Matt is chaos.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Matt is chaos. And in fairness, Vannon hasn't broken
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the law. He hasn't stolen a horse in a long time.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: He's doing everything since he got recruited. He hasn't broken
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: the law since.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's above board now, but he still doesn't
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: like cops. He's still team acab uh huh. So Matt
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: wanders off to the kitchen and gets buns that have
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: blue dye in them and then comes wandering over to
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: the ice to die, to prank Joelane and also say
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: goodbye to everybody else.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's sort of a braid of the women
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: who can channel who have been hanging out with them.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Sanderson's like, I am jettisoning these characters as fast.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: As I He's like, goodbye Bethamn, goodbye Sida, goodbye Joe.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: He's like, I don't want to deal with this. I
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: don't want to write it, I don't want to remember,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I don't want to track it. They are all leaving,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: they are all going to ride to the White Tower
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: and I will not have to think about it. And
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Matt has an interesting interaction with the former schooldom right
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: because they have become, you know, de facto novices. They
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: want to go to the White Tower and learn now,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: and they're kind of depressed and despondent and you know,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: maybe we should just kill ourselves instead, YadA YadA. And
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: he says, go and learn how to channel and be
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: ready to help me deal with the empire. And yes,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: rippling fallout that comes from the thing we all know,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: which is that the Empress can channel. Like this is
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: going to be a problem for the Empire. It would
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: be very helpful if you knew what you were doing
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: and you were ready to help me deal with it.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And that like gives them a new thing to look
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: for it because they're, you know, empire oriented. They can't
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: stand the thought of being cast off from the empire.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: He just threw them a lifeline to let them stay
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: connected to the empire.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that the lines like that is what
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: makes us really disappointed that there aren't going to be
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: any Outwrigger novels.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, Right, that's.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: The line that makes me go, oh, he knows, he
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: knows this is a problem, He is thinking about it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: He will fix it now. I thought there would be
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: more fixing of it in this book. I didn't realize
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: we weren't going to get to see any of that.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I thought that the fixing of it was what would
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: let the sean Chan enter the last battle. I am
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: disappointed that they didn't fix it to ender the last battle.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: But this tells me that at least Matt is aware
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: of that, he's thinking about it. It's not going to
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: get left behind.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, Matt is going to get to it. It's on
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: his to do list. It's unfortunately low down, but it
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: is on the list.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: And he's got me in as an ally right mm hmm.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And he's also setting these two up to be his
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: bridge Ally type people. The groundwork is laid, it truly
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: is being laid.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: So then he thinks about Rand, and we could see
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Rand in the.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Palace again, all of his closest friends, all of Rand's
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: closest are having these very Sandersonian on the page insights. Oh,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: that's how Rand has been feeling. Right, Wayne understands his
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: sense of captivity, Paren understands being pulled in all directions.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Matt understands having people look up to him for things
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: he doesn't know if he can actually deliver on. Right,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: They're all having these moments of empathy for Rand, right
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: as Rand is having empathy for himself. More or less.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: It's all very neat and tidy and makes the plot
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: a lot more aerodynamic.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: And we're getting to the end of the series. You
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: need these characters to have these realizations to complete their arcs.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: And with how Fog of War Jordan was about some stuff.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I don't always hate Brandon Sanderson just blowing some of
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the fog away and letting us actually see the architecture.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And I remember the first time I read these, I
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: really did appreciate that he was spelling some of this
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: stuff out.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, some of it's a little hand fisted, but
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: so much of it is a breath of fresh air.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Then we deal with Bail Domon and Llewellyn, Yeah.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Which is a cold, cold goodbye. They are not on
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: the best of terms.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: No, no, he does not like them at a whole.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: But that's okay. But this is setting up Lluellyn to
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: go be Agwaine's warder. Yeah, you know, I always intended
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: to make my way to the White Tower. I set
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: my mind there on the day I left Ebudar because
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: she needs to go be you know one. She feels
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: like she needs to make up for some of the
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: things she does. She's done like she has a lot
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: of guilt over her actions in Ebudar.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Right, and she has given up her connection to the Empire.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: She has to find her own thing. Unlike the former
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Suldom who can be toss that lifeline, there's no lifeline
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: for her. She has to find something new. And yeah,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the betrayed Igwaine is the best place she's got to start.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Is her biggest failure.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: So and I wish she'd become the warder much earlier
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: instead of gowing God.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I freaking loved Agwaine with the surly Sean Shan ward
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: for her as her warder. It just the the contrasts there,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: the enemies to friends dynamic that was being set up.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: It was it went with her dream. I loved that
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: dynamic when she was like, actually, I'm gonna choose heartbreak instead.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I was very disappointed because I loved the brief moments
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: that they were a team. But yes, this is setting
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: up for that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: She was never on bail domon ship, right.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: No, she almost was, right, bail Domont's ship was what
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: was set up to be the escape vessel when she
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: was gonna get broken out like she was very much
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: he was ready to be her ship. But then you
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: know the dragon reborn stuff, horna Valier, YadA, YadA, all
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: that happened. And I also love the idea that the
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Omberlin's ward has a word right because bail Domon is
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: a bodyguard.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Ye, not a true word right.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: So it's like the Auberlin is so important that her
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: warter needs a bodyguard, her get has a bodyguard. It's
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: very secure. It's very very secure. And then we go
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: and talk to the Isidi, including Joline, who gets given
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: the dosed buns, which is not with drugs or anything,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: it's just with die but still they're crank buns.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: It turns her mouth bluw. You know one of the
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: things people cite when they say, well, Matt Coffin feels
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: childish and it's like, Eh, that feels maybe a little pranky.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: That's like old school Matt, and he's like trying to
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: bring that old Matt back a little bit. I don't know.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I like that. Tom says what we're all thinking on
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the page, and then Matt as Sanderson as Matt, says well,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I thought it was funny to try to do an
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Eye of the World as so fuck off, right, It's like,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: all right, I mean, that's your Arthur real choice to
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: get to do that. It's a fun fourth wall breaking
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: at the end of the chapter. But before we get
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: to that, he does have an actual message for them
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: to take to the White Tower, and he says, this
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: is going to be easy if Agwayne is Omalin, but
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: even if she's not Omerlin, you still have to tell
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: the Omerlin that I need the Horn of ful Ear.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: He doesn't say it exactly in those terms, but essentially
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: he's says, I'm going to need the Horn of Valier
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: real soon, so the Omberland best get that on top
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: of the pile in the warehouse. I don't want to
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: be digging around underneath crates of taranngriol. I want that
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: up on top, ready to go with a note, so
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: the secretary doesn't need to call management. I want that ready.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: So Encyclopedia Watt says that in this timeline, Elida is
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: still in the White Tower.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: So why are they headed back?
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I mean they asked to leave last time, and he
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: said yes.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I thought they did that because they heard a rumored
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: that the tower was reunified.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Let's see Tire mid Night chapter eight. They're conflicting rumors
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: about the White Towers and the rebels, so let's see
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Towers have mid Night chapter eight. Let me go by
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: there for a second. That's right at the end. You've
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: heard the news of the White Tower news. Some say
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: the White Tower is being reunified, which is what you're
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: probably talking about. But I've also heard just as many
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: say it's still at war and.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: That the Omberland fought the last battle in Rand's place,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: which is the battle on the White Tower, which is
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: the day before the reunificate, for two days less than
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: forty eight hours before the reunification.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: So okay, Encyclopedia Watt has to be wrong about that.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Then, Yeah, that that is empirically incorrect. Sorry, Encyclopedia Wat.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this definitely feels like it has to be after.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's if there's news of a giant battle that
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: was fought at the White Tower. We know when we
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: are in the timeline, there's no way that a rumor
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: like that happened before the actual event, right.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I like that he sends his soldiers with them so
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: that they can bring the horses back, and so he's like,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: you don't get to keep the horses. I'm like gifting
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: you the horses and they're like, oh, oh, well we
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: thought we'd get to keep them.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, that's that's an asshole, moved Joelane. Okay.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: It's also a sneaky way to give them a guard
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: the whole way though as well.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: It's also a sneaky way to get any intel that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: they might be able to pick up along the way.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: There's many many dips that he can do with that
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: single chip. I also love how he casually thinks that
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: maybe he should go get a going out of whatever
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: trouble she's in with the tower, Like he like assumes
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: that she is on top of his was like, yeah,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: probably I should probably go rescue her from being on top.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Which is consistent with his thinking, right. He's always thinks
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the girls in trouble. They're into deep I need to
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: go get them out, and like, what are you doing
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: pretending to be isaid I, Matt, we are Isaidahi. No
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: you're not. There's no way still in that mindset.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I love it. It's so he is still a little
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: bit childish and slow. Some of sometimes non growth is
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: the growth we want.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Did we talk about his message about the horn of Velier?
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I did? Yeah, yeah, I was euphemizing a lot, but yes,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: that was what I was saying. And then he asks
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: about Satala on On because he figured, you know, all
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: the isid eye women are going to go, but no,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: she in fact feels weird around them and wants to
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: try to return to her life as a stilled woman
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and is actively avoiding the whole proceeding and micromanaging the
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: men cooking because that gives her something to do. Well,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: the party takes off, all right, Yeah, Vannin gets sent
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: along to gather information. The other soldiers are Reguard. VanIn
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: is the intel guy.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Because you know now that Masana needs help in the
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: white so Vanon's headed in that direction because he's also forsaken, right, yeah, van.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And Dreda is a very real theory that totally holds water,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: and Jilene makes one more pass at Matt, one more pass, like,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I really want you to be my warder. I could
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: forespaud you right now. And he's like, you are giving
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: me tayland ick vibes. So how about you just skid
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: atle with your buns good?
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Please stop with the rap rap please.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just go away. I don't like feeling predated on,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like Joline and Alana how lot in common.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, very much, very much, fiery greens with a flexible
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: concept of consent.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and then there's the thing about Tom. At
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: the very end, he talks about sprinkle Wart that'll turn
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: her mouth blue because she eats all the sweet buns.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: It's like blue Gentien or something like.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: And he's like, I'm trying to get back to my
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: basic roots, you know, recapture someone I lost youth. You're
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: barely twenty winters old, sure, but I did a lot
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: of living when I was younger.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: The fourth wall has been broken to the point that
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: it's it's a little bit like being ground into dust
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: under our feet at this point.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: That's yeah, pretty hard, And it's like, shouldn't he be
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: a little more mature with all the memories in his head.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's been maturing more with those memories.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: He's trying to be less mature. He's been getting more
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: and more integrate those memories, and he's actively trying to
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: pull the average back down by being extra childish. That's
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: literally what he says he's doing. It's very silly and
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: weird and whatever. And then we hop over to like
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: ten minutes, where he finds Mistress Anna doing her aforementioned
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: busy work to keep herself from thinking about how she
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: could be going back to the White Tower, but she's
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: not going to because she's a married woman who can't
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: be healed from stilling now.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: And how her moves look great, But not that he
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: that he was not thinking about it, not that he noticed.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Only Joline had a predatory light in her eyes. Matt
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: for sure, for sure. Okay, so yeah, she asks him
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: what's really going on, and he says, I need you
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: to look after Oliver because Golam Shenanigans basically, and you're,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: you know, the closest thing we have to a maternal
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: figure in this army. So can you take the child please?
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: She says fine, but you need to get cleaned up.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: You look like a mess. Get a new serving man
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why he tacks it on as an
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: addendum to his requests from Elaine once they finally have
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: their meeting, is because Stala puts it in his head that, like, you,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: grieving is all well and good, but you need a
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: serving man. That is a part of your routine at
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: this point.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: And then he kind of apologizes like, I'm sorry you
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: were stilled, and she's like the passes the past. I
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have been poking at it. I'm sorry I asked
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: to see her tarranngri Al, but.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I never know how I feel about her just really
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: refusing to consider getting healed, because I get it, she's
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: got a life now, spouse and children and a life
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: she might not want to, you know, somehow magically outlive.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: But also like, but it could be healed. I don't know.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe my head canon is that severing right when you're
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: cut off, that can be healed because that's a clean cut.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: But and you still yourself. The way she did, that
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: connection is so badly destroyed that there's nothing to well.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Sure, but she doesn't even want to try, Like that's
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't even Yeah, I totally agree that
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: with her having learned to live around it, it makes
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: sense that it wouldn't work. But the fact she doesn't
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: want to try is like, oh, but I get it
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: because like, if it worked, then she might end up,
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: you know, vampire outliving her husband, which would suck.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: And don't forget and like I said, she was stilled
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: by an accident with Taran.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Greal, right, she was burned out. Burned out, Yeah, because
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: still thing is when it's intentional in burning out.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, stilling, soevering, gentling. Yeah, there's a lot
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: of terms for it because it's so bad everyone, you know,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: and also we I do like that we have Age
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: of Legends terms as well as modern terms for a
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: lot of things. Yeah, that's one of the things I
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: really like about when you'd see lewis theren creep into Rand.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: And one of the things I didn't realize on my
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: first couple of rereads is some of the phrases that
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: are Age of Legends phrases about channeling that he uses.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: So now we puv switched to I'm assuming more or
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: less the same day, but now we're with a lane
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: and this is the vital PUV of the chapter, and
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of important negotiations for the short, medium and
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: long term are going to happen.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I thought we got some confirmation on our progress in
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: terms of her pregnancy. She felt enormous. The pregnancy was
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: only just beginning to show.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Like I said last time, nineve had to double take
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: to notice it. And she's a healer, so she's only
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: just starting to show.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: So the beginning of the second trimester.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I think that's right. Yeah. She thinks about how much
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: of a pain in the acid is that she has
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: to order maternity gowns in different sizes. All I can
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: think of it as the fact that they don't have
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: sewing machines, so all of that is handsown, all of it.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: It's just a lot of seemstress is keeping her in
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: maternity gowns when you.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Know these are nice gowns too. These aren't just like robes.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: You know, these are very nice gowns.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: These are not shapeless things you can let extra seam
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: space out of. These are like nice fitted queenly gowns
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: that have to be set to each month. More or
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: less of her pregnancy progression.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: She is the queen of a giant nation. It's okay
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: that she has nice clothes.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I'm just it's okay. I'm just thinking it's a lot
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: of labor. There's a lot of needles flying down in
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: the lower city to make this work. That's a lot
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: of shopped out labor that her people are doing.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: The ice ad I wardrobe alone probably keeps armies of
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: seamstresses working.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, As I do my sewing machine podcast and learned
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: that really all sewing machines do is they exist to
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: make the needle go faster. The more I look at
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: stuff where it's like, oh yeah, and then fantasy person,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: medieval person, whatever, just threw away their clothes, let them
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: get torn, let them get ten Like, that's so much labor.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: Sewing it on my machine is so much slaper So
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I get on a treadle is about the same amount
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: of labors and with electricity, but neat hand sewing guys
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: hand sewing Like okay, So when Singer first had like
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: an awesome machine, he I think it was Singer, but
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: one of they were do like speed tests with like
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: how fast can a single steamstress with a sewing machine,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: you know, put together this shirt versus someone with a needle,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: and it was like an hour versus fifteen hours, right,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: like early days of I finally have a prototype that
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: can make a whole shirt without breaking. It was instantly
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: like a fifteen hour reduction in time. It's just it's
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: totally reasonable that a queen have a great wardrobe. I'm
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: just saying, there's so many more people employed in the
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: textile industry of camelin than you think.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I kind of feel the same way when I see
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: like superheroes or magic destroying like buildings and I'm like, oh,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: like designing and putting that up and prepping the space
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: for it was like years and multiple people's lives go
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: into making like a single building.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: You know, you have to demo the whole thing just
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: in order to rebuild it. Yeah. Yeah, the city is flattened.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Superman.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like, yes, you save lives, but you've literally
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: destroyed billions of dollars worth of infrastructure.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the trains won't be roading for another two
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: years with what you just did to that bridge.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Like one of the things I really like about The
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Incredibles they get that part right. Oh did She also
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: noticed how and when she visits the garden they literally
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: have to carry water up the stairs to pour it
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: so that she gets a little creek to sit by.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, now that's some one percent shit right there. Unnecessary.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Well, the creek only flows when I visit because we
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: literally have to carry the water up some stairs.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it could probably just be part
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: of the watering system, right like where the thing flows
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: out to could imitate. It could just be part of
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: how the regular gardening is happening. They said a few
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: jugs aside for that, and it I just I don't
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: know if you need people to carry water to the
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: roof for a little tinkling stream, maybe you don't need
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: a little tinkling stream.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Also, like this is camelin. Do we not have the
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: concept that there are very simple pumps, primitive pumps that
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: would bring water up like water wheels? Right Like, it
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: feels like there should be a way to have water elevated.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's because of the drought. Maybe normally the cistern
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: is like full with rain water and it's not an issue,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: but because of the drought situation, it's not. Maybe I
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know. It feels like going from
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: oh bother I have to order new maternity gowns to
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: the stream only flows in my presence because you have
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: to carry the water upstairs. It just feels like Sanderson's
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: leaning hard on how one percent it is to be
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the Queen of England, I mean and or yeah.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: And then we get the oh, I'm safe because of
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: my baby's argument between Burgida and a Lane, and it's
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: two pages of I'm gonna be fine. You might not
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: be fine. You could lose an arm, you could be
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: brain dead, you could be injured horribly, they could cut
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: the babies out of you. No, I'll be fine.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: It's one page in my book. But yeah, yeah, it's annoying.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. It's annoying. And Elaine brushes all of those
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: concerns aside like they are nothing. She's like, nah, that
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: won't happen. It's like it literally almost happens. And the
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: only reason it doesn't happen is because ghost Brigida gets
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: summoned by the horn in the nick of time. That's
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: the only reason you don't get Caesarean on the freaking battlefield, which.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, god, as early as she is in the
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: pregnant sy do you think this anyway? The babies goes
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: survived or is there enough time passing because she's like
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: farther away from the battle.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, she's about ready to pop by the time that
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: that scene happens. Now, she is like, the babies are
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: going to be born any day now when that whole
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: scene happens.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a big chunk of time that passes
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: between now and then where she is.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because she is the head general of the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: actual larger army battle thing, not at shale gool, the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: battle everywhere else. Yeah, she's pretty far away. And yeah,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: months go by, months upon months go by, obviously, because yeah,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: she is far too pregnant to be on a horse
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: swinging a sword at a trollic at the time she is.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: That's kind of crazy. Where's your dad doing your pregnancy? Oh?
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: He was fighting a battle the whole time? Yeah, pretty much.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right, Yeah, totally for the entire second half
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: of my gestational period. He was fighting one battle, not
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: even a war, a single battle. It was a duel. Actually,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: it wasn't even a battle. It was a duel.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: I mean there was like Morden and niney Eve and
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Morain are in there too.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: He was dueling with more than one. Nine even Moraine
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: held the power for him.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I was thinking the Dark One then, and while a lot.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Of was bleeding out on the thing, but the Dark
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: One was working through Mordon. Whatever. Whatever, It's not a
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: battle proper. The battles are all happening outside right anyway.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Samiko and Elise of the Kin of the Wanna Be
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Yellow and Wanna Be Blue, respectively, they show up to
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: have Elaine have a meeting with them about the future
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: of the Kin, because that's we have a lot of
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: ideas about what the Kin could be, but there's still
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of room to put more ideas on the board.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: We also put a nail in the who was killing
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: the Kin storyline? Right, No more killing have mysteriously disappeared
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: since Careene was killed.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: She was behind the killings all along and done. No
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: loose ends, no red herrings, nothing. We're done. We're done.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: We're done. Thank you Sanderson. Love that clarity.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: These chapters do feel like Sanderson's like bringing dangling plot
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: lines out back and just capping them in the head.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: One of the times, like don don.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Don, I would describe it more like weeding, but.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, weeding is a good way to put it right.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: He's clearing up the garden, so only the biggest, strongest
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: storyline spinning.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's sinning down the starts and being like, no,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: we can't have three tomato plants here. That's simply too
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: many tomato plants. One tomato plant will survive, the other
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: two need to go, thank you.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: The problem is these aren't starts though, These are giant,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: viny tomatoes that are choking each other out because they've
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: been intertwined for fourteen books.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an abandoned garden being cleared out, and you
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: have to make some rough choices on an old, abandoned
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: garden in order to make it pretty and manageable again. Because,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: as we've said many times, Jordan was a gardener as
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: a writer. That was his style. And yeah, this one
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: has been left to go wild at this point, and
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: like some of the grape plants have gotten into the
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: pathways and they are going to need to be extricated entirely. Yes,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: you're a lovely grape plant, but I need that pathway,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: And it's also it's not like he's pulling out these
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: healthy plants. They've lived their life span. They've told their
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: story right, these storylines are done, like, we don't need
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: to go back and talk about them again.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you just you need a rake, you need some loppers,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: you need a brushwhacker. We just goett to clear this out.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: It's too much. It's a fire hazard.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: And so there's this sort of back and forth between
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the Kin and Elaine. Basically, but essentially, something comes to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Elaine being like, so where are you gonna live? You're
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: gonna live here in Camlan. Let's make a deal.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Basically, she says, you're at a crossroads, and I am
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: almost also at a crossroads. Why don't we build a
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: very successful business together? And then she pitches the wildly
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: radical concept of imagine a city free of disease where
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: people can just get healing. Blah blah blah. I'm just like,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: yelo aja, are you listening? Like the Yellow Wagia could
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: have been doing this in every capital city of the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: known world. This could have been all of tarval and
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: and every capital city and it's.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Just and how good of a recruiting tool would that
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: have been?
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Again, Sanderson, as a fan of the books, being like,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: this should have been happening, and I'm gonna make it
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: happen now, and I love that for him and us.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: And yeah, great recruitment tool. Here's a bunch of retired
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: eyes to die doing end of career stuff telling you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: everything you need to know about your potential career in
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: the White Tower. Pretty good.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: And then you have people in cities who can identify
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: people who can channel, who come to them for healing
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: and send them off to the White Tower, right, Like
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: you have a local representative where you can be like,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: I need healing, and while you're there, you're like, I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: can channel, well me, you know, like that level of
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: like it's cover.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: So many less people would die or get other people
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: hurt in the process of learning how to channel. Right,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: you have way higher retention rate of people instead of
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: people's burning out or going insane because.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: They you know, there's a reason every city needs a
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: planned parenthood. I mean, can location the free healthcare for
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: women is and then under the cover of bringing them
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and recruiting them into and getting help from the whatever
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: situation they may be in.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And Camelin is a great place for that
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: model to start. If it's not going to start in Tarvalin,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: then I guess Kamelin's going to step up to the
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: plate and get that ball rolling.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: How do you think the raising of Camlin affects this.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: I think they're one of the leaders in building back.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: Do you think after the last battle, Gamelin's just rebuilt
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: and basically everything. Yeah, it's been.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Around since the end of Arda Hawking's empire. It's got
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: the love of the Dragon reborn living there. I foresee
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: the city being rebuilt and the Kin being a really
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: big part of it, and probably the Black Tower two
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: being a really big part of putting that city back together.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I can actually see it be like the first city
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: rebuilt by male and female channelers and be like all
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: the beauty and like they can construct things that are
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: like supernatural. It's like the first city truly built with
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: the power. Like I could see that being really cool.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it would be not in a rivalry
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: with Tarvalin for being an epic city, but it would
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: be in the same league because it would be the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: first city built with that collaboration since breaking and it
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: would be a center of power, but a different center
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: of power, not a competitive center of power, just a
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: different one.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Probably built by the Ogear because they're back involved.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, they would be back for sure. Yeah, Loyal would
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: insist on making the very best memorial library wing to
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: rand ever.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, and so she makes the deal basically like,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: I want gateways and healing healings for free, and you
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: can make some money off the gateways, and we'll all
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: get rich off the gateways basically.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Right, because trade has always been the lifeblood of an
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: empire's economy. We're just tapping into that with new technology.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: No logistics, right, Like being able to supply your armies
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: that more than anything else. Is how like the US
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: is still winning across the world with our armies. Is
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: not necessarily the quality of our weapons or anything like that.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: It's the fact that we can get food, weapons, and
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: troops pretty much anywhere we want within twenty four hours
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: and probably faster. We're talking about the US military.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: It's what made the Roman empires so effective at Roman
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: empiring was their ability to do logistics and build roads
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: and effectively move units of men and material around. Like
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: it's it's a really great way to be both militarily
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: and economically powerful.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and I don't believe the ogear would read
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: the Book of Translation right after the last battle. I
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: think they're going to be around for another age.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't see them taking off just as soon
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: as the world starts to get better. That seems like
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: an odd choice.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like, yes, they do need to do the
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Book of Translation, but they have nothing. This is only
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: the Fourth Age, right, they have until the first they're
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: not in the first Age. But that's three more ages
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: they could be involved in. Right. We don't know what
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: the event is that has them actually read the Book
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: of Translation, but it's not the Last Battle, and it's
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: not the aftermath of the Last Battle.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I assume it's the end of the fourth or
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: maybe the fifth Age is like part of that conclusion
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: is the ending of the era of o Gear. But yeah,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: not the Fourth Age. The fourth Age will still have
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: ogier masons because like Loyal's book existence stuff, and you
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: think he's not going on a book tour nah.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah, he'd have to be there, right his book, right,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: all those quotes of the Fourth Age. Yeah, that's a
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: good point exactly.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Elise and to Mako have a little bit of a
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: not exactly power struggle, but they have two different approaches
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: to how they want to deal with the White Tower, right,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Elise is very skeptical, whereas to Mako is gung ho
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: for the Tower. Right, she is the Elaine in this situation,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: whereas Elise is more like the nine Eve, which makes
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: sense because they're both yellow. But it's like, if the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: White Tower doesn't want me, I don't want the White Tower.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to accept second class citizenship status in
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: that frame.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Right well, And their difference in attitude is one of
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: them has the power to go become an ICID eye,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: the other one doesn't. Right See, one of them is
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: going to stay in the cant one of them is
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: going to become an ICID eye. And so a lot
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: of ways they have different motivation.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And to Mako just can't imagine that someone doesn't
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: want to be a nice to die and doesn't want
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: to consider iside the best and like, no, there are
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: other people with different abilities out there who can't do
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: what you can do, and they actually would like to
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: be considered full human beings with full status and rights
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: and respectability in their own right, even if they can't
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: meet your standard. And also like so makeup will be
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: back in the kin someday if she becomes us to die,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: I cantire.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: That is kind of funny. That would be an interesting
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: power dynamic because like for everybody else, right, it's kins
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: by age. Although Elaine does say she wants to push
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: them to restructure how they choose leaders.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: But like, I hope they do.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Well, what structure are they going to use?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Right, Like, we don't know at least is in charge,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: but why that's the structure? These are nine of rules
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: because I said, so, okay, yeah, I don't know, but
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: I think that they'll figure out some sort of meritocracy
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: style thing where like the people who want to be
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: in charge have the ability to vote amongst themselves, like
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: who's going to be in charge for the next year
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: I thought the age thing would be interesting because then
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: you always have the the oldest isid I are always
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: going to be the youngest kin, and so you all
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: have these I sid eye of no matter what power level,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: they come in at the beginning, at the lowest level
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: of the kin because they're the youngest.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, that would be funny. That would be funny.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: So I kind of like that, Yeah, who knows, who knows? Yeah,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: the Ayeale system kind of works. You just kind of
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: declare your status and people affirm it or not.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: You have to have an internal sense of honor. And
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: they also have a hazing system, right, you have to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: go through the tests. Yeah, and that does kind of
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: prevent anyone who doesn't follow your way from getting in.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe once they have the ideal exchange program at
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: the Sea Folk Exchange Program, we'll have a little more
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: of a diverse cultural stewpot from which to try to
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: draw ideas and build something that actually works for women
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: who are looking at their fourth century of life and
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: restructuring of how they've lived their whole lives up until
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: that point.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the fuckery from Savannah. Savannah did the same thing
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Trump did, where she walked in and said, well, technically,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: all these things you've been saying are just custom, and
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: I can ignore them because it's not law, and therefore
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: I get away with everything because no one has a
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: law to stand on. I'm just breaking custom and you
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: might not like that, but you can't legally stop me.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: You know, that's actually a really good comparison that we
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: as a phantom have not made enough. You know, there's
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of mileage in the Alida comparison, but there's
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of untapped mileage in a Savannah comparison, because yeah,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: if you're willing to throw out custom you can get
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: away with a lot of stuff in a way that
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: someone who still feels obliged to follow the law, like Elida. Right,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: Alida screams, I am tower law. It matters to her
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: that she is doing something legally, Savannah, it doesn't.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Well, but she says her word makes it legal, so
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: that's kind of well.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: But still the delusion in her head is that the
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: law matters. Savannah's just like, but what if it didn't?
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: And also just the incredible desire for wealth over everything
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: else and using her personal power to acquire wealth.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an underutilized comparison for sure. All right,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: rob Weekly, we all news. This is your assignment maybe
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Savannah Trump comparison that, yes, AND's what you've been doing
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: with Alida, that's your assignment.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Does this creepy thing about bluebells that had flowered bread
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: and bled when someone cut them? And now there's like
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: an like again just the corruption, just more corruption. The
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: dark one is reaching out and touching the world.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: I like that. The corruption is getting weirder and more subtle.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: It used tould just be a big binary something is
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: wrong now. It's like, oh, the flowers are flowering. They're
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: flowering blood, but they are flowering. It's not that they
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: won't grow it. I like that it's creeping into smaller
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: and smaller little pieces of reality. And yeah, Elaine sort
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: of reflects on why she's doing all of them, and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: it's because after the last battle, the shawn Channer is
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: still going to be a problem and she needs to
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: be ready to deal with that because she is a
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: far seeing queen.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Sooner or later, the shawn chann will be able to travel.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: All they needed to do is capture Alia, I mean,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: one woman who knew the weaves.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: So strategic thinking. She knows that their biggest asset is
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: incredibly weak to that human weakness, like if you get
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: one person, one is all it takes and it will
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: spread like a virus.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: And since we think this is after the battle, right,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: because the rumors of the battle has spread to Matt
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: that this they've got her, right, it's too late, like
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: they have already got traveling.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: Elena is thinking about this as the problem is developing.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: She's like, hmm, I should plan for that eventuality. We
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: know it is in the act of becoming no longer
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: an eventuality.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: And then she thinks about recruiting the Black Tower, right
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: because their ann on dooran soil, and like how they
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: could you know, if she's got the Black Tower and
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: the can that's a real edge against the shawn Chan.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: Which she's not wrong, and you know, the Black Tower
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: as it currently stands terrible idea, but the Black Tower
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: as it will exist after the last battle, it's going
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: to be well set up for that. Logan will have
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: had his whole epiphany about how helping people is going
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: to like keep him saying for the rest of his
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: life and fighting back against the shawn Chan, I think
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: will meet that criteria for his career.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Well. And don't forget the shawn Chan now have copies
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: of the Mail Adam, so they are a real threat. Yeah.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so teaming up with and Or would be very
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: smart for the Black Tower in terms of the how
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: do we deal with the shan Chan and their belligerents
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: and slavery.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: You know, this kind of reminds me of like getting
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: ready to fight Russia after the World War Two, where
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: it's like, yes, the Germans are the enemy, but once
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: they're defeated Russia's going to be a problem. And like
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: how much brinksmanship and stuff was going on before the
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: end of the war, and that's what led to the
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: East West Germany or East West Berlin divide that like
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: a bunch of landies West Germany.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now that's a really good comparison. Like, yes,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: obviously we have the one enemy, but that is the
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: only reason we're on the same team. We were enemies
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: before this third party showed up, and we will go
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: right back to being enemies as soon as they are
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: adult with That is a very realistic comparison, and it's
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: not bad. Yeah. If you don't, you're just asking to
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: be swallowed up. And it's depressing and stupid and realistic.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: And I think that brings us to the Renot.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. She needed something, an edge against the
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: shan Chan, something to balance their channelers in combat. The
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: only thing she could think of was the Black Tower.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: It was on and or soil. She'd told them that
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: she considered them part of her nation, but so far
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: she'd gone no further than sending inspection parties. What would
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: happen to them if France died? Dared she try to
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: claim them dared she wait for someone else to which
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: is a good question, because someone will.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: Someone will. But you know, white Towers. No one's claimed
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: the White Tower. They are nationalists. They exist in a
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: space between and Or Khyrien and the Borderlanders.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: But if she tries to insist on asserting power over
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: them and they don't like it, they will make alliance
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: with one of her enemies. So yeah, you can't put
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: that off forever. But yeah, there you go. There's two chapters.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: First one didn't have much and the second one had
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of plot jettisoning. Yeah, a lot of characters
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: and plots.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Being removed from weeding.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: Stage, lots of weeding, lots and lots of This was
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: a weeding chapter.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: It was a weeding chapter, a weed out chapter. But
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: it's had some fun, fun little stuff in it.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I enjoyed it. But that's really all I've got.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: It was not a lot of large implications, just a
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: lot of plot purning and yeah.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: I hope, yes, a little bit of recap a little
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: more parent next chapter, Parent and fail, a little Rousla
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: Gialta And that's more Matt. So actually, very very similar.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Next week will be very similar. I feel like to
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: this these two chapters same same kind of like taking
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: these plot lines and we're in the stage now where
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: like we're not recapping anymore, but we are like he's
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: moving his pieces into place to get ready for the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: sander lanch. But you got to set the sander lanch up,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: and that's what There's a lot of sort of moving
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: pieces around the board where you're like, this doesn't feel
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: like a lot's happening, but pieces are moving and things
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: are getting set up for the end.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Let's termed recording on before anymore of this good content
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: gets lost recording.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, you're saying you going back and been listening
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: to early chapters of Real Time for sleep Aids.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really funny like having Paren now being like, oh,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: there was this thing that happened to me, and then
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: I'm falling asleep to like the actual chapter where those
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: events happened. It's been a very interesting pairing of just
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: like oh, yeah, that is how that went down, and
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: Paren really doesn't ever let it go, like those are
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: such formative events anyway. Conking out now.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: It really helps because then when I wake up in
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: the middle of the night, I can tell that time
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: has passed I can even approximate how much time has
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: passed and anticipate potentially how much time is left.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: And if I can't fall back asleep, at least I'm
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: listening to something very very comforting and Man nineteen ninety
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Michae Kramer and Kate reading like the recording is so
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: much warmer because it was analog and their voices are
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: so much younger, and it's just such a different experience
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: from now.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, no, I love listening to them. I especially like
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: it because when I wake up, if there's not something
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: to occupy my mind, my mind will find something to
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: occupy itself, and that's often something that will keep me awake.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: And so having an audiobook on when I wake up
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: just lets me go, oh yeah, we have time right
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: back to sleep, you know.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: Uh. And if I don't fall back asleep, oh no,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: I'm listening to my favorite books or listening to it
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: right right, yeah, right, like, because there's been times where
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, that's a chapter, but whatever is fe.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: Then I'm reading right, which is not a bad thing.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and like, yeah, it's just it's been It's plus
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: my sleep aid is also blackout I Mask, which has
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: been amazing. It really, it's amazing. I live in a
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: dark place, but man, blackout glasses or blackout masks still
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: improves my sleep quality.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: You've sold me on one of those, and I keep
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: meaning to buy it and then I have not, so
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: keep bringing it up until I buy myself one, because.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's awesome. The only struggle I'm having is
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: with the charging cable. It broke very quickly, and the
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: fix I have for it means that the little control
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: panel is not properly positioned like where it's supposed to be.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: Got it because you can take the electronics out because
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: you have to wash it right. So but yeah, I
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: can show you in person. It's I'm a little annoyed
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: that the electronics were not so great, but I'm happy
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: that they had a spare port for charging to go
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: into that thing. So it was a simple enough little
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: cable fix. But it's the pain in the ass and
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: it should have been made better in the first place.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: But oh well, welcome to in shitification.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you know, I wanted to recommend the company
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: because they were one that I didn't get advertised by
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: because when I started looking them up, right, you get
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: advertisements and I sort of as I don't know if
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: it's like a PDA thing or just like an anti
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: capitalism thing, but I try really hard not to buy
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: the thing that gets advertised to me hardest, Like, if
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: someone wants to spend that much money advertising their product
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: to me, I'm going to spite them and not buy it, right,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: So I try to like use advertisings to get an
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: idea of like what is the price and design feature
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: kind of spread amongst the big boys, and then I
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: go try to find, you know, a smaller boy to
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: actually buy it from. And yeah, this company's fine, I guess,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: but the main electronic breaking like almost immediately is like, ah,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: maybe try a different brand that isn't one of the
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: big boys.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: It tells me that the electronics are probably all made
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: cheaply by the same company and then bought by these
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: companies and repackaged and sold as their own sleep aid.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm assuming that, yeah, they're buying the electronics
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: and then making the mask, because they were very proud
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: of the mask. The website spent a lot of time
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: talking about the construction of the masks. I think that's what.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: They made themselves.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: Then the electronics installed were yeah, and you know I
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: tried to buy not the cheapest ones out there, but
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: apparently I need a different one. Well, I don't need
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: a different one. I need to continue repairing the one
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: that I have. But if I'm going to give out
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: a recommendation, it would be to do your own research
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: and roll the dice on your own. I don't have
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: a strong recommendation.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: I had not invested in buying ten different masks and
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: trying them out over an extended period of time to
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: recommend the best. I've tried out one and it's kind
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: of been shitty.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: No, it's a comfortable mask. It's fine. But the charging
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: part breaking immediately is like, eh, you're not going to
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: get my word of mouth recommendation. Sorry, Like buy better
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: electronics and then charge more for them, and then I
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: might buy them or not because I was looking whatever.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: It's fine. None of this is relevant to anything except
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: convincing you that you need some kind of blackout assistance
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: with your sleeping experience, which does not have to have
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: headphones installed. Right, the blackout part is not electronic. That
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: part is very mechanical.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying my sleep aids right now. I'm on
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: a rotation I was Dresden Files, Bob Averse, Dungeon Crawler Carl. Yeah,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: I think there's a couple more, a little bit of
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: Andy Weirs thrown in there, a little of Alistair Reynolds. Yeah,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: just some of the books I've been reading lately. A
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: lot of more sci fi in my mix than fantasy lately.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: Is one thing I've noticed, very very little fantasy is
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: making it into my rotation. A lot more sci fi
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: has been falling in my lap. And depending on what
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: you call this, is also that overlap, right, like Dungeon
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: Crawler Carl, Aliens come to Earth, But it's real fantasy,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: right because it's magic, But the magic is science.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: Is there technology or a chosen one? Is there a
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: chosen one? Because that's a distinguishing feature. You have taught
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: me this.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: Ah, he's yeah, you know this is he's not necessarily
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: the chosen one. He's he could have been anybody. It's
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: more of right place, right time.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: Then that makes it hi fi.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: So it feels more sci fi to me.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure there's other distinguishing features, but I'm pretty
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: sure that's the important one. Is is it the technology
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: and the accident of time and place or is it
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: that you were always destined to be this person? And
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: it's very cosmic.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, but no one has feet they're as pretty
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: as his, so that might have a lot to do
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: with it. Is the attractiveness of his feet?
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: Well there it is. Then you don't even know what
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: to say to that.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: For those of you who have not read it, you're
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: very confused. For those so you had or nodding along
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: going yeah, of course, that makes total sense.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: I am getting convinced from many angles that I need
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: to try these books because you are, by no means
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: the only person who has been talking them up positively
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: in my digital earshot recently.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm and yeah. And and what I'll say is
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: I thought they were good books for the first three,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: and then I thought they were great books for the
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: last three. So that's that's sort of my my baseline
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: of like, because I feel like he does a good
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: job in the first three. He sets up a lot
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: of things, but it is, you know, the first book
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: definitely feels like a tutorial, right, this is how you
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: play the game, you know, And for me that's that
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: was like middlely entertaining and also some of the more
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: my favorite characters don't get introduced to the last three books, right,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: So it's like there's this sort of build up of
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: more and more characters that you like more and more
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: as well as you know, I feel like the plot
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: gets more complicated. It's less focused on this is how
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: you play the game and more focused on plot. And
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: then the thing that I love about it the audio. One,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: the audiobooks are really good, but two, I feel like
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: it does something that I haven't seen since Wheel of Time,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: which is create a rich story for background characters by
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: showing you what those characters are doing, doing little snippets
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: and forcing you to reconstruct what's actually happening with their lives.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: It doesn't tell you what's going on with the background
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: characters' lives, but it's full and rich enough that you
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: kind of reconstruct it.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: So should we make that our first time read podcast?
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: I think so, and honestly, and the two reasons one
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: because I do think you should read them, and two
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: because they are getting so popular so fast.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: We could write a popular way. We could try to
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: be with the cool kids.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: I think we might actually have a chance of making
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: it commercially successful, unlike some of our other you know,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other books from the eighties. I
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: would love to go back and do. There's some of
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: my favorite series, you know, something like either Broken Earth
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: I thought was a great idea, but that's always going
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: to have a very niche market, something like Dungeon Crawler
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: Carl is currently exploding and can be. I feel like
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: it's one of those book series that is popular with
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: the jocks, it's popular with the nerds, it's popular with.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: The with girls. Is it popular with girls?
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: It does seem to be. I think it is more
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: popular with men, like for sure. But I think and
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: you'll have this is one of those things where you'll
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: have to tell me because I'm a guy, and I
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: honestly haven't had a chance to talk to very many
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: people about this except you, and you haven't read it, right.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: That could be pretty fun.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: But here's what I'll say is I know at least
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: two people at work who've read it already, and the readers,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: but still like it's that level of popularity where it's
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: it's impacted. They haven't read a lot of the other
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: series we're talking about. So okay, so athlon saying all
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: the women in these book club love it so well.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I seriously, like, I mean that the chat
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: is proving my point that, like so many people across
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: all of Discord and even I think in other platforms
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: are like talking about this book series and I'm like,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to feel left.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: Out, like so and I guess here's what I'll say
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: is I was like, hey, never, my wife like you
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: you should I keep talking about the series. So she's like,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: should I listen to it? Because she's also been getting
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: into audiobooks a lot more recently, mostly into The Fairy
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: Smutt But I think that has then gotten her into
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: the habit of reading audiobooks, and there was only so
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: much of that to listen to, and now she's like, actually, oh,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: I want to listen to an audiobook sometimes, And I'm like, well,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: here's Dungeon Crawler Carl, and she blew through the book
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: first book. And I can always tell that she likes
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: it if she listens to it when I'm not around, right,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: because we'll listen to books together and we'll get into
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: them for a little bit. But if she doesn't listen
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: to it when I'm not around, I'm like, okay, you don't,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: You're not like that into it. You'll just like humoring me.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: But if she starts being like, oh no, I got
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: I listen to a bunch of chapters while your work,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, you're hooked. I gotcha, and Dungeon
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Crawler Carl got her.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I am currently in the market for a new audiobook, so.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you want to do try a
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: new reader podcast, we could we could talk about maybe
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: recording another like doing your ex for a long recording
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: session on Tuesdays and seeing if we want to put
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: something together.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: I'll give the audio book a spin, and if I
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: get a few chapters in and I like it enough,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: like you know, the production, and can kind of imagine
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: myself podcasting enough, then we can then we can talk.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: And I feel like we can do it in bigger chunks,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: like we don't have to do it by chapter by
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: chapter necessarily. Sure, especially in the beginning. I think later
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: on we'd want to go chapter by chapter, But in
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: the beginning, I think there's enough.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'll give it a spin, and then if
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: I like it enough to try, we can make some content,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: you know, without really getting too committed to a project.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: And if that feels like it's a rhythm that we
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: can maintain. Then we can do the thing where we
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: actually set up a podcast and will already have some
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: recording exactly in the bag to get started with. I'm
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: learning how to launch podcast.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: I'm learning, and you and I at this point have
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: launched so many podcasts, some together, some not together, that
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like it should go very smoothly. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: but it'll be a really interesting do the first time
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: reader podcast. I mean, try not to spoil everything for you.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: That's gonna be the hardest part. Different dynamic, be a
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: very different dynamic because I'll have to go back and
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: listen to the wheel weaves in the podcast and like,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: how how to do a first time reader podcast?
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you'll have to talk to Brett and yeah,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: and like form a little support group of Yeah, that's
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: I'm in the market for a new audiobook, so I
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: think I'll give that a spin and we will let
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: you dear listeners know how that goes. But in the meantime,
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: should we turn our attention to this podcast?
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, we're only an hour late for a super double
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: long chapter. I don't see why we should get started.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: I have no nowhere to be or anything to do
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: besides this.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why we get paid the big buck. The
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: big bucks. Having fallen to below seven hundred dollars a
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: month for the first time in my history of being
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: on the podcast in Patreon, I noticed that threshold got passed.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: It's been on a slow, precipitous decline. This is not
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: like anything surprising, but it's like, ah, do we crossed
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: a arbitrary line that I'm assigning value to.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: Well, it's we're coming to the end of the series, right,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: and I think you and I have both you know,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that that there's a certain
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: drop off for people, like, Okay, they've gotten through the
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: Jordan stuff.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's certainly how I feel about it. We're just
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: on mop up now.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of reasons why we're talking about like, hey,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: maybe we should try something different, right like r at
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: this point where it's like the money's dropping off, I'm
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: not sure the listenership hasn't really dropped that.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: Much, a very small amount, but that might also just
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: be a migration of people over to the Patreon sure method,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: I have no way of seeing those numbers, right, so right,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: but yeah, no, this thing is is running its course, right,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: winding down on every.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: Level makes sense exactly, Like we.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: Still have a year and a half to go, but
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: like it is very much near the end compared to the.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: Beginning, right, Yes, yes, when you're on thirteen out of
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: fourteen books, you're closer to the end in the beginning
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: for sure, for sure. So yeah, I think that that's
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: I think trying something new like Dungeon Crawler Carl, which
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: is on this exploding pathway through the fandom, I think
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: it's a good time to maybe take advantage of that.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: I think we have the chops to launch something pretty
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: quick and get on top of it. And it's on
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: book seven. There's three books left, you know. It's one
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: of those things where I think it could be finished
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: by the time we get caught up.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: Chapter sixteen shah Nahar, the symbol being the Blacksmith puzzle.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Rape Media. For
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.