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S6:E16 - Coffee Smarter: Mistakes New Roasters Make · Coffee People Podcast

• 0:00
  Afternoon. How are you?
• 0:01
  I'm good. We made it look like you're in
• 0:05
  an art museum. I'm on my today so hopefully it
• 0:09
  doesn't affect the pound. I am so in the closet was I
• 0:15
  actually just stay here all the time now.
• 0:17
  It's not even worth it to get out.
• 0:19
  Sure. Hey, good morning everyone.
• 0:35
  Welcome to season 6 episode. 16 of the roast West Coast coffee
• 0:39
  podcast. I'm Ryan Walton.
• 0:42
  This is the show where I bring you the stories of coffee
• 0:44
  professionals entrepreneurship and coffee education.
• 0:48
  Today's guest is no stranger to this show, series simran Khalsa,
• 0:52
  the executive director of coffee at lofty, coffee and Southern
• 0:55
  California is back for the next couple of weeks to help us get
• 0:59
  coffee smarter. Syria is in charge of the entire
• 1:02
  roasting program for lofty coffee, which now has six
• 1:05
  locations plus their market and wholesale program.
• 1:08
  Today, I asked her what mistakes new Roasters make, and how they
• 1:11
  can learn from her experience. It is something.
• 1:14
  I've been asking all of this season's experts.
• 1:16
  And despite the question remaining this, Name, the
• 1:19
  answers have always been different, which speaks to the
• 1:22
  complexity of coffee and the various philosophy surrounding
• 1:25
  it. I should tell you that I'm
• 1:27
  working on this intro while eating a glazed donut and
• 1:30
  sipping on a cup of coffee. I'm a Dipper.
• 1:33
  I enjoy soaking up coffee into my donut or the occasional
• 1:36
  breakfast cookie. I know that some don't, some
• 1:39
  might cringe, even, but you're not here in the beauty of being
• 1:43
  an adult, is that when I wanted a dessert for breakfast, I can
• 1:46
  get it and I can eat it. However, I want I want I hope
• 1:49
  you're out there. Treating yourself to a craft cup
• 1:51
  of coffee from your favorite local coffee roaster.
• 1:55
  While you listen to this podcast and we all get a bit coffee
• 1:58
  smarter. Courtesy of this shows, long
• 2:01
  time, coffee expert, series simran Khalsa, executive,
• 2:04
  director of coffee at lofty, Coffee Company,
• 2:20
  So on that note we should start the show.
• 2:22
  Let's get into it. Siri we've been trying to get
• 2:26
  together for several weeks, a month month and a half to get
• 2:30
  you on the roast West Coast podcast, excuse me, roast West
• 2:33
  Coast podcast season 6. Thank you for coming back.
• 2:37
  I'm always grateful for the time that I get with you.
• 2:40
  Thank you so much for having me. I always it's always a great
• 2:43
  conversation. I feel like you always ask me
• 2:46
  out of the box questions, that I'm sure your listeners love to
• 2:50
  hear. So I'm super excited for what
• 2:53
  you have in store for us today. I just found out.
• 2:57
  We are one of the top 10 entrepreneur podcasts in Norway.
• 3:02
  So, who are listening? Yeah, we are not in the top 10
• 3:07
  in America, but we are in the top 10.
• 3:10
  In Norway somehow amazing. I was gonna say that but you've
• 3:16
  made it to season 6. Congratulations.
• 3:18
  I feel like that's a big deal. Thank you.
• 3:23
  You know, you don't have to be good to be persistent.
• 3:26
  I figure you just keep going. Yeah, just if you just keep
• 3:29
  going forever and ever eventually people say, oh, he
• 3:32
  must know what he's doing. He become the top podcast in one
• 3:36
  of the top podcasts in Norway, so that's right.
• 3:39
  Right before we get into the question, I have for you today,
• 3:44
  I want to ask you about something I saw on Instagram.
• 3:47
  You are part of another group called the San Diego Coffee
• 3:50
  Network. Yes, with another great coffee
• 3:52
  person, Sophie short, and you do this thing called, give a bag,
• 3:56
  get a bag, meetups and I'm wondering if you could tell me
• 4:00
  what that is and why it's like a how does it benefit the coffee
• 4:04
  Community. Absolutely.
• 4:06
  So over the last Just under a year.
• 4:10
  It's Sophie and I have been running the SD Coffee Network.
• 4:15
  And we've now done to give a bag.
• 4:18
  Get a bag events and the idea of it is really that it's a space
• 4:25
  for people to get out and meet people who are interested in
• 4:30
  coffee. And by doing that, we invite
• 4:33
  everyone to bring a bag of coffee and when you leave that
• 4:37
  event you will hopefully Bring different type of coffee home so
• 4:42
  it's kind of a nice way to first of all have people share coffees
• 4:47
  that they're excited about but it's mainly about the hangout.
• 4:52
  And the first one we did, I will say it was very successful or
• 4:57
  people showed up and it was a delightful time.
• 5:00
  The first one we did. Yeah.
• 5:02
  It was super small but it also allowed us all to really hang
• 5:06
  out and talk and get to know each other.
• 5:09
  And to understand each other's interests and coffee, you know,
• 5:12
  we had someone who was a new Barista just kind of getting
• 5:16
  into the industry and we had some Justin from genteel coffee
• 5:21
  who he had just was working on reopening his location on
• 5:26
  University Ave. So we had him there.
• 5:28
  He brought his friend who was a photographer and so it was it
• 5:32
  was a mix of people. Yeah, we were.
• 5:35
  It's kind of just like the space that okay.
• 5:37
  The common thing is coffee. But we're really just here to
• 5:40
  get to know each other on a human level.
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  So this last one we had was really successful though and not
• 5:48
  but the first one wasn't, but a lot more people showed up to
• 5:52
  this one, to the point where everyone who came brought more
• 5:56
  than one bag of coffee. So everyone actually ended up
• 5:58
  leaving with all sorts of coffee from different Roasters and
• 6:03
  something I thought was cool about this one was a handful of
• 6:07
  Roasters actually came. And not so much.
• 6:10
  Just like, I like this coffee. Here it is.
• 6:12
  It's like, I've roasted this coffee and I want you to try and
• 6:14
  I'm excited for you to taste it. So that was really cool.
• 6:18
  There was people coming from all over San Diego and we actually
• 6:21
  even had a group of people who came from TJ and Mexico, just
• 6:25
  down South of the Border. And we had folks who came who
• 6:31
  they didn't even bring a bag of coffee, but they just wanted to
• 6:34
  meet all the people that came and they're interested in
• 6:38
  perhaps, Owning a cafe. So it's really just a space for
• 6:42
  people to hang out and every time I've done it, I've made a
• 6:45
  new connection. So it's a nice way to really
• 6:49
  Network, and share your passion for coffee, just to clarify.
• 6:54
  Then on that is you said it wasn't just cough, it's not just
• 6:58
  industry. People, anyone it's open to
• 7:00
  anyone or is it more geared towards coffee industry?
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  People it's absolutely open to anyone who'd like to come and
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  you know I think it's It's you think about the people that
• 7:11
  maybe follow San Diego Coffee, Network are a lot of them are in
• 7:16
  the industry, but I think a lot of them are also just perhaps
• 7:19
  coffee lovers, or enthusiasts, or we even had someone who said,
• 7:23
  oh yeah, my I had a friend who knew I was interested in or the
• 7:27
  folks that were hoping it are looking into opening a coffee
• 7:30
  shop. I think one of their friends
• 7:32
  just saw the post and shared it and was like, Hey this might be
• 7:35
  a great place for you to meet coffee people.
• 7:38
  It's really anyone is welcome and really it becomes I think
• 7:44
  it's a space that you whether your coffee nerd or new to
• 7:48
  coffee or just like to drink coffee in the morning, it's a
• 7:50
  space for anyone to come and you'll definitely have those
• 7:55
  conversations and and find that this space is super open and
• 7:59
  welcoming and shout out to all the people who've opened their
• 8:03
  place for us to host it and kind of take over their space.
• 8:07
  This last one we did was Was at scrimshaw and scrimshaw, if
• 8:11
  anyone's listening, they just celebrated their, I think fourth
• 8:14
  or fifth anniversary, it was there better great little coffee
• 8:17
  shop. Yeah, so always a huge milestone
• 8:21
  for any business, so congratulations to them.
• 8:23
  Okay. So today Siri, I want to ask you
• 8:26
  a question that I've been asking other coffee.
• 8:28
  Experts on the show. We don't normally double up on
• 8:31
  the same question for people, but this season I have because
• 8:34
  everyone has had a uniquely different answer and so that
• 8:37
  just is interesting to me. Me.
• 8:38
  Because even though all of the people, I've asked this
• 8:41
  question, have coffee roasting experience.
• 8:44
  They all took the answer in a different direction.
• 8:47
  So my question is, what are some common mistakes that new
• 8:52
  Roasters, people that are new to Coffee Roasting make and how
• 8:56
  might they try to mitigate some of those or learn from your
• 8:59
  experiences? That's a really, really good
• 9:03
  question. I don't know.
• 9:05
  It makes me think back on what were the mistakes I made, but
• 9:11
  actually, and I'm not presuming, you made any mistakes, I assume
• 9:15
  that you just immediately right from the beginning.
• 9:18
  You were just perfect at what you do, but not by a long shot,
• 9:23
  but I think that's sweet. But I think I do have to think
• 9:28
  about this for a second because I think that Rose Testing.
• 9:33
  So much of it is trial and error and experimentation and like
• 9:39
  there's a probably a lot of common mistakes that people make
• 9:42
  that. You almost need to make so that
• 9:46
  you can learn what not to do. But then also maybe discover
• 9:52
  something in that that works for you.
• 9:54
  That maybe is different from some advice somebody's given
• 9:57
  you. So I feel like it's inevitable
• 10:00
  to and person. I find it like I would encourage
• 10:04
  that that you just try everything in the bag and make
• 10:09
  those mistakes and learn what those mistakes taste like.
• 10:12
  So that you have an understanding For why you maybe
• 10:17
  want to avoid that. But some, some hard things that
• 10:22
  I notice, maybe in newer Roasters locally and even people
• 10:27
  who've been like, hey, I have this sample that.
• 10:29
  Can I get you to try it? And tell me what you think,
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  especially in specialty coffee, I find that newer roasters Will
• 10:39
  roast very light and perhaps that's like influence by the
• 10:45
  trend or information people share online.
• 10:49
  But almost without a doubt, the new Roasters that let give me a
• 10:54
  sample to give them. Feedback is almost always that.
• 10:57
  It's just a little too light in my for my preference and high in
• 11:02
  acidity and protect potentially like lacking in body.
• 11:06
  And I think though it goes back to my first point, Point of
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  experimenting, especially when you have a new coffee and a new
• 11:13
  machine and you're just excited about finding that sweet spot
• 11:17
  and seen how exciting your coffee could be, although,
• 11:22
  that's a trend I've seen. I think it's still necessary to
• 11:25
  do that and maybe offer your coffee as samples other people
• 11:29
  and hearing. That feedback is can be
• 11:32
  enlightening. So I hope that did that answer.
• 11:37
  Yeah, I think so. I think the idea that you are
• 11:40
  willing to make mistakes and maybe even intentionally make
• 11:43
  mistakes so that you can you can taste what is wrong and I might
• 11:48
  be taking it a step further so that, you know, later on in
• 11:51
  life, when you're roasting, if you taste something again, oh, I
• 11:55
  made this mistake and I know what it is because I did it
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  early on in a controlled somewhat environment.
• 12:01
  Yeah. Or maybe a not controlled and
• 12:04
  like someone was like, oh, that's kind of tasting a little
• 12:08
  bit grassy or and then being able to compare that to your
• 12:12
  current palette and like be like, oh yeah, I could see that
• 12:15
  or baby would be like, well, this is how I like it.
• 12:18
  So, you know, teach its own sure.
• 12:22
  Well, I think that's a, I think it's a very interesting concept.
• 12:25
  The idea of dialing in a coffee, in the mistakes that are made
• 12:28
  when you're dialing it in, that's kind of the value of
• 12:31
  that. Is, you're doing it before, it
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  goes out into the world. It is, I don't know, 85 degrees
• 12:38
  outside and I almost feel bad asking this question, but we are
• 12:42
  officially in pumpkin spice season.
• 12:46
  His lofty offer a pumpkin spiced coffee.
• 12:49
  Well, it's actually a really good timing that you ask.
• 12:53
  I will say, over the, over the years.
• 12:56
  I've worked there there internally, there's been a push
• 13:01
  against falling into the trend of pumpkin spice, but I have to
• 13:06
  say there is something to meeting Our Guest wants.
• 13:13
  People want pumpkin in their lattes Ways we are doing a Twist
• 13:17
  on it, this year though, and in the over the last year, we've
• 13:21
  introduced a new beverage to the menu called Cloudy with a Chance
• 13:24
  of cold brew and it's our Nitro cold.
• 13:28
  Brew with a cold heavy cream foam on top.
• 13:32
  And it's husband illa, and it's sweet and creamy and it's
• 13:36
  literally ice cream in a cup. But for this holiday season
• 13:40
  because it's 85 degrees out. And we live in Southern
• 13:44
  California, I Our our fall beverage is going to be a
• 13:49
  pumpkin pie cloudy and so we're doing a pumpkin pie syrup in
• 13:54
  that cloudy, thick foam that we put on top of that drink.
• 13:58
  And it's honestly so good. Again, it's candy in a cup.
• 14:03
  It's candy and a cup. And I feel like it's going going
• 14:07
  to be a hit. We're also dusting it with like
• 14:10
  a graham cracker crust dust. So it's really going to be A
• 14:16
  liquidity cold, pumpkin pie. It's going to be good.
• 14:21
  I think along with along with the idea of being willing to
• 14:24
  make mistakes, they one thing that I've taken from the last
• 14:27
  several years is to not be so hard on myself for maybe liking
• 14:35
  things that are mainstream. If that's I don't, I'm not
• 14:38
  claiming to be a hipster of any kind.
• 14:40
  Although I've certainly been accused of that, I certainly
• 14:42
  weren't a flannels and I have a beard.
• 14:44
  Look at Brooklyn at one point. But I certainly like had a
• 14:48
  opinion of like some things are just beneath me at when I was
• 14:52
  maybe a bit less worldly and I think over the past few years,
• 14:58
  the one thing that I've taken away from the pandemic as a
• 15:01
  whole, as just a general policy about how I live my life is to
• 15:05
  not be too harsh on myself, no matter what it is that I decide.
• 15:09
  I like if it's a crappy reality show or a coffee and I think the
• 15:15
  beauty of Pumpkin spice. Is it has a bad reputation to
• 15:18
  some extent when coffee people? But there are coffee roasters,
• 15:22
  like yourself or, like coffee cycle, or anyone who are making
• 15:25
  these fantastic drinks from scratch, that are phenomenal and
• 15:29
  taste examine exactly. Like what you just described
• 15:32
  liquid pumpkin pie. Yeah, that we can enjoy and not
• 15:36
  feel guilty about it. Totally.
• 15:38
  I all I'm right on board with you on that, where I The other
• 15:44
  day I had a I was having a sweet tooth and I had a salted caramel
• 15:48
  latte and like I couldn't even tell you the last time I had had
• 15:51
  a salted caramel latte but I savored every sip of it because
• 15:55
  it was so good and just like sugar and espresso and milk,
• 16:02
  it's just how can you go wrong? It's so good.
• 16:05
  And it's like definitely trendy and the mainstream, but don't
• 16:11
  knock it. If it's good, even if it's
• 16:12
  popular. The only reason that I question
• 16:15
  is because this show is only popular in Norway.
• 16:18
  And so I would like people to say, oh no, like, it's too cool.
• 16:22
  We need to start listening to it.
• 16:23
  I would like to get to that mainstream popular.
• 16:25
  Yeah. Siri thank you so much for
• 16:29
  coming back on the show. I'm hoping that at some point,
• 16:32
  it cools off. I've been in Southern California
• 16:35
  for 10 years and I finally got to that point where I'm if the
• 16:38
  temperature is more than 2 degrees too warm or two degrees
• 16:41
  too cold, I complain about it. Hopefully If I can have a
• 16:44
  pumpkin spice cloudy and and find a middle ground.
• 16:48
  Fantastic. Thank you for having me.
• 17:01
  Okay. To recap the primary lesson, we
• 17:05
  learned today isn't entirely tangible, but it may be my
• 17:08
  favorite one from the entire season.
• 17:10
  There are no real shortcuts going through the trial and
• 17:14
  error of making mistakes. While roasting is part of
• 17:17
  becoming a great coffee roaster. Don't get discouraged.
• 17:20
  Look at those mistakes as data points.
• 17:22
  So that in the future, when you taste something wonky, you know,
• 17:26
  what the hell is gone wrong, Siri more specifically mentioned
• 17:29
  that new Roasters, often roast their coffee to light.
• 17:33
  I've experienced this with some of the samples I've received
• 17:35
  from show listeners. Recently, avoid going to light
• 17:38
  by taking the time to dial in your By adjusting variables and
• 17:42
  then cutting those coffees side-by-side preferably in a
• 17:46
  blind cupping, if you can manage it, Ryan Sullivan foremost, your
• 17:49
  coffee company addressed that earlier in the season, and he
• 17:52
  recommended that. You try to roast New To You
• 17:54
  coffees at various levels of light to dark.
• 17:57
  And then start dialing in after cupping to determine, which is
• 18:01
  closer to where you want the coffee.
• 18:03
  Taste to go, you can't magically look at a green coffee and know
• 18:07
  the best way to roast it right off the bat.
• 18:10
  Even if If you get the first version right, you'll never
• 18:13
  really know until you've gone through the process to learn
• 18:16
  more about the San Diego coffee network and to stay up to date
• 18:19
  on their upcoming, give a bag, get a bag of events, follow at
• 18:22
  SD Coffee Network on Instagram and if you find yourself craving
• 18:26
  a Nitro cold brew with a heavy cream foam on top blended with
• 18:30
  homemade pumpkin spice and dusted with a graham cracker
• 18:32
  crumble. You can find it at lofty, coffee
• 18:35
  this fall. Finally, in this, is for new
• 18:38
  Roasters and humans. Generally be kind to yourself.
• 18:42
  We all make mistakes. This is one giant game of trial
• 18:45
  and error, it's continually adjusting and adapting.
• 18:48
  That helps us get better. The mistakes are like the stars
• 18:51
  in Mario Kart. They blast you forward at least
• 18:54
  they speed up your learning curve.
• 18:57
  I'll share links to lofty and SD Coffee Network on roast
• 18:59
  westcoast.com, which is where this shows newsletter lives
• 19:03
  online. If you want more coffee,
• 19:05
  content, check it out. If you dig it, please subscribe
• 19:08
  there are free and paid options, the paid subscriptions, go
• 19:12
  directly into the growth of this show.
• 19:14
  I'm also going to share this week, a recent interview in
• 19:16
  which I was the one answering the questions which were asked
• 19:19
  by listen notes the podcasting app.
• 19:22
  You'll learn more about this shows.
• 19:23
  Origin story. My pod casting process and
• 19:26
  definitely about some of the mistakes I've made.
• 19:28
  Along the way again, you'll find all of that on roast
• 19:32
  westcoast.com. In addition to the paid
• 19:34
  subscribers, I have a few coffee industry.
• 19:36
  A partners that I rely on for expertise and support the
• 19:40
  include Cafe lechera. Most your coffee company
• 19:42
  steady-state Coffee Company, Camp Coffee Company, coffee
• 19:46
  cycle, roasting ignite, Coffee Company, Maria coffee, Cape
• 19:50
  Horn, coffee importers Ascend Coffee Roasters, and zoom bar,
• 19:54
  coffee and tea. The glazed donut.
• 19:57
  I was eating earlier. I was dunking that into a cup of
• 19:59
  Zoom bars hummingbird blend, which is almost always near my
• 20:03
  home coffee grinder. Thank you for listening and for
• 20:06
  supporting the show this episode of the roast West Coast coffee
• 20:10
  podcast is was has been written produced and recorded by me Ryan
• 20:15
  Walt. I hope this episode is found you
• 20:18
  happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it through
• 20:21
  the day, always tip your Baristas and be sure to drink a
• 20:24
  coffee.