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Evil Stepmom Claims Boy, 5, Never Got Off School Bus · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grece. A dad literally bent over
0:15
Speaker 1: in half, sobbing, wailing in grief at the discovery of
0:22
Speaker 1: his five year old son dead, just crying out loud,
0:31
Speaker 1: tears running down his face, wailing in grief.
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Speaker 2: Or was he.
0:42
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:45
Speaker 1: being with us here at Crime Stories and on Serious
0:47
Speaker 1: XEM one eleven.
0:50
Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to this.
0:52
Speaker 3: A local TV crew is on hand on Sunday, March fifth,
0:55
Speaker 3: as law enforcement and volunteers gathered a search for five
0:58
Speaker 3: year old Justin Turner. A man from WCBD Films as
1:02
Speaker 3: Justin Turner's father, Victor, looks into a pickup truck camper
1:05
Speaker 3: on the property. The camper has been searched before to
1:08
Speaker 3: no avail, but this time Victor Turner leans into the
1:12
Speaker 3: camper on one knee, looks into one specific place and
1:16
Speaker 3: the search is over.
1:17
Speaker 4: A sun's in there, yeah yeah.
1:24
Speaker 3: According to Sheriff Dwayne Lewis, Victor Turner doesn't check for
1:27
Speaker 3: a pulse or signs of life. He doesn't touch his
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Speaker 3: son at all.
1:31
Speaker 1: The horrible moment a five year old little boy is
1:35
Speaker 1: found dead.
1:37
Speaker 2: He's found dead in a camper and the first search
1:42
Speaker 2: of the camper reveals nothing, but we're learning more.
1:46
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Sheriff Dwayne Lewis with the Berkeley
1:49
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department.
1:51
Speaker 5: Justin Turner.
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Speaker 6: Was reported missing on March third at three twelve pm
1:59
Speaker 6: from his home here in Berkeley County.
2:02
Speaker 5: Deputies arrived.
2:04
Speaker 6: James Gather's first deputy on the scene, requested assistance and
2:10
Speaker 6: got help from other deputies and members of the rescue squad.
2:15
Speaker 6: DNR sled fire departments converged on the area searching for Justin.
2:22
Speaker 5: He's five years old.
2:24
Speaker 1: This case spans so many law enforcement departments. With me
2:30
Speaker 1: and all start pandel to make sense of what we
2:32
Speaker 1: know right now. But first straight out to Nick Reagan,
2:35
Speaker 1: WCSC journalist and morning breaking news anchor.
2:39
Speaker 2: Nick, thank you for being with us.
2:41
Speaker 1: Tell me about the discovery of the little boy and
2:44
Speaker 1: how does he go missing.
2:45
Speaker 7: The situation was such that the law enforcement was called
2:51
Speaker 7: out by Justin Turner's parents. They told him, They told
2:56
Speaker 7: law enforcement that he had gotten on a school by,
3:00
Speaker 7: went to school and never returned, and the Sheriff's office
3:04
Speaker 7: came out and took statement, and then they began this search.
3:08
Speaker 7: This two day long search. The first day revealed nothing.
3:13
Speaker 7: The second day, as you heard, within honestly a few
3:17
Speaker 7: minutes of that search happening, his father, Justin Turner's father, Victor,
3:23
Speaker 7: goes into this camper shell and within seconds notices sees
3:30
Speaker 7: his little boy in that camper shell dead. So that
3:35
Speaker 7: is the scene that is the premise for how all
3:37
Speaker 7: of this started. Of course, cracks in the case begin
3:41
Speaker 7: from there.
3:42
Speaker 1: So the little boy goes to school on the bus
3:47
Speaker 1: and he's never seen again. That is eerily reminiscent of
3:52
Speaker 1: another little boy. All of you legal eagles know very
3:56
Speaker 1: well the name Kiren Horman.
3:59
Speaker 2: Take a look. Listen to our cut one O four
4:01
Speaker 2: to Chyron's bio.
4:03
Speaker 8: Mom to the person or persons that have Kiren, I
4:08
Speaker 8: miss my son so much that I can't breathe at times.
4:12
Speaker 8: My heart aches every second of every day, and I
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Speaker 8: am afraid that I can't live without him. I know
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Speaker 8: that this situation has turned out much bigger than anyone
4:24
Speaker 8: could have ever imagined. Please do the right thing here
4:28
Speaker 8: and help us find him. Think about Kiren. He needs
4:33
Speaker 8: me as well. There are so many things he hasn't
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Speaker 8: gotten to do yet.
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Speaker 2: Please let him go.
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Speaker 8: Just take him to a remote payphone and tell him
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Speaker 8: to call nine one one and then we can come
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Speaker 8: and get him.
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Speaker 1: You are hearing Desrae Young, Karen Horman's biological mother.
4:52
Speaker 2: After the stepmom reportedly.
4:55
Speaker 1: Takes him to school for a science fair that morning,
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Speaker 1: he wanders off and he's never seen alive again. But
5:03
Speaker 1: in this case, we know that this little boy, justin
5:07
Speaker 1: Lee Turner, was supposed to go get the school bus
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Speaker 1: the way he did every single morning.
5:14
Speaker 2: You know what's extremely interesting.
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Speaker 1: To me, And let me throw this straight out to
5:20
Speaker 1: James shel Nutt, high profile lawyer joining US out of
5:22
Speaker 1: Alabama twenty seven years on Metro major case. James, did
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Speaker 1: you know, Oh gosh, it's a staggering number. Well over
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Speaker 1: thirty percent of missing children disappear related to the bus stop,
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Speaker 1: catching the bus.
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Speaker 2: Trying to get to school. That's a huge.
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Speaker 9: Number, it is, And you know that's the point in time.
5:45
Speaker 9: A lot of people don't think about this. You know,
5:47
Speaker 9: you think about your kid being safe getting on the
5:49
Speaker 9: school bus, being around schools, But you know, when they're
5:52
Speaker 9: at that bus stop and on the way to and
5:54
Speaker 9: from that bus stop, they are vulnerable kids in a
5:57
Speaker 9: vulnerable situation, often without supervision.
6:00
Speaker 1: It's a huge a number of missing children that go
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Speaker 1: missing related to getting two or hong from school.
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Speaker 2: Now, in this case, this is what we know.
6:13
Speaker 1: Take a listen to crime online dot Com investigative reporter
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Speaker 1: Nicole Parton in our cut three.
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Speaker 10: Friday, March third, Pamela Turner waits for her step son
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Speaker 10: to get off the school bus. When Justin Turner doesn't,
6:24
Speaker 10: the stepmom calls the school staff there tells her that
6:27
Speaker 10: Justin wasn't at school at all that day. He was
6:30
Speaker 10: marked absent that day. The Sheriff's office is called and
6:33
Speaker 10: deputies come to the Turner's home. Five year old Justin
6:36
Speaker 10: Turner has been missing for hours.
6:38
Speaker 1: But there's a little twist to that story. Listen to
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Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner Crime Online.
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Speaker 11: Pamela Turner tells deputies she wasn't feeling well that morning
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Speaker 11: and didn't walk Justin to his bus stop as she
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Speaker 11: normally did. Instead, she got in the shower as Justin
6:51
Speaker 11: left the house. Justin was supposed to go next door
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Speaker 11: to catch the bus with the neighbor's grandson. The neighbor
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Speaker 11: tells investigator she waited outside with her grandson to catch
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Speaker 11: the bus but she didn't see justin.
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Speaker 1: So the stepmom does something different that one day. She
7:08
Speaker 1: doesn't walk him to the bus stop the way she
7:12
Speaker 1: always does, so somewhere between home and the bus stop
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Speaker 1: is allegedly where he goes missing, because the grandma of
7:23
Speaker 1: a little friend says he.
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Speaker 2: Was never at the bus stop first thing in the morning.
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Speaker 1: Okay to Nick Reagan, joining us WCSSE journalist Breaking news anchor, Nick,
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Speaker 1: how far would their home be from the bus stop?
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Speaker 2: Well, not too far.
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Speaker 7: But you know, what we know specifically is that Pamela
7:45
Speaker 7: Turner at the time is what she was going by.
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Speaker 7: She said that day was unusual. She said that she
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Speaker 7: was feeling thick, and that she was in the shower
7:55
Speaker 7: at the time and didn't actually see her step son
7:59
Speaker 7: headed out to that bus stop as she normally would.
8:05
Speaker 7: So all of those things sort of painted a different
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Speaker 7: picture than maybe what would happen on the daily where
8:14
Speaker 7: she would possibly or potentially usually she would say she
8:18
Speaker 7: would go out to the bus stop with her son
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Speaker 7: on a normal day, So things were unusual.
8:23
Speaker 1: Isn't it odd how just one tiny change in the
8:29
Speaker 1: morning routine can have such devastating consequences. The one day
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Speaker 1: she doesn't walk the little boy, Justin Lee turn Her,
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Speaker 1: aged five, to the bus stop. Is the day that
8:41
Speaker 1: he is kidnapped. Take a listen now to the sheriff.
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Speaker 1: Sheriff Dwayne Lewis in Berkeley County.
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Speaker 6: Justin never made it to school that morning. He never
8:51
Speaker 6: got on the bus, he never arrived at school. That's
8:56
Speaker 6: because he had been murdered than a camper. I can't
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Speaker 6: think of a more tragic, horrendous murder five year old boy.
9:12
Speaker 1: So the sheriff's agreeing with the grandma who says he
9:15
Speaker 1: was never at the bus stop. Unlike Karen Horman's case,
9:19
Speaker 1: where the stepmom says she.
9:21
Speaker 2: Got him to school.
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Speaker 1: She knows he was at school and she sees him
9:25
Speaker 1: go into the school. This little boy never even made
9:28
Speaker 1: it to the bus stop. And according to Nick Reagan
9:31
Speaker 1: joining us WCSC, it's not far at all from the
9:35
Speaker 1: home where Justin was living with his dad and the
9:38
Speaker 1: bus stop. So what happened in that short short distance? Okay,
9:43
Speaker 1: the search begins. Listen to Dave Mack.
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Speaker 3: The search for Justin Turner includes multiple agencies and volunteers
9:50
Speaker 3: from the area. For two days, WCBD News video cameras
9:54
Speaker 3: followed the searches. Videos show volunteers side by side with
9:57
Speaker 3: police and sheriff's deputies walking nearly over his shoulder through fields,
10:01
Speaker 3: checking under back decks and sheds. The Channel two cameraman
10:04
Speaker 3: is filming as Victor Turner goes into a camper on
10:07
Speaker 3: their property and quickly comes back out saying, my son's
10:10
Speaker 3: in there.
10:24
Speaker 2: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
10:27
Speaker 1: Now, let me understand, Nick Reagan WCSC. Hadn't that camper
10:31
Speaker 1: been searched before?
10:33
Speaker 7: Yes, it had it at one point, but it was
10:36
Speaker 7: again just on that second day where in the father
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Speaker 7: Victor Turner went in there. It was only in there
10:44
Speaker 7: for a very limited amount of time. Somebody will say
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Speaker 7: it was a couple of minutes, a couple of seconds,
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Speaker 7: But the implication is that when he went in there,
10:51
Speaker 7: he immediately was able to tell that his son's body
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Speaker 7: was in there. And then you heard from that report
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Speaker 7: earlier he kind of broke down, backed out of the camper.
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Speaker 7: It refused to I'm not going to touch the body.
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Speaker 7: I'm not going to touch the body, and really broke
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Speaker 7: down at that scene. And so the camper here is
11:13
Speaker 7: crucial to all of this. Police have said that there
11:17
Speaker 7: is limited access to this camper.
11:19
Speaker 1: I wanted to take a listen very quickly to Nicole
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Speaker 1: Parton because it's my understanding the little boy wasn't just
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Speaker 1: lying there on the floor or on one of the
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Speaker 1: pullout soface in the camper. He actually had to be
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Speaker 1: folded up and stuffed inside of one of the cabinets.
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Speaker 1: Cabinets in campers in RV are very very small, So
11:40
Speaker 1: how did the boy.
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Speaker 2: Get into a cabinet?
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Speaker 1: And how did police miss that the first time they
11:45
Speaker 1: looked in the camper?
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Speaker 2: Listen.
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Speaker 10: Victor Turner discovers his own son in a camper on
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Speaker 10: their property. He goes in, but comes back out of
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Speaker 10: the camper without touching the five year old. The body
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Speaker 10: of Justin Turner is found hidden inside a cabinet in
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Speaker 10: the pickup truck camp part close to the family home.
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Speaker 10: Investigators said Victor Turner found the boy's body quote within
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Speaker 10: seconds of entering the camper end quote, moments after the
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Speaker 10: search party began at search that day.
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Speaker 1: I've got so many questions based on what I'm just hearing.
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Speaker 1: But joining me right now.
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Speaker 2: As a special guest, Amy Parsons, this.
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Speaker 1: Is five then five year old Justin Lee Turner's cousin,
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Speaker 1: and you can find her on Facebook at Justice for
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Speaker 1: Justin Lee Turner.
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Speaker 2: Amy, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 12: Yes, ma'am, thank you.
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Speaker 2: Amy.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember when your cousin, Justin Lee Turner went missing.
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Speaker 12: I vaguely remember bits and pieces. I don't remember that
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Speaker 12: day or the surgery of that stuff. My family were
12:45
Speaker 12: from more of the upstate of South Carolina. My mom
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Speaker 12: was involved that first day when he went missing.
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Speaker 2: In what way.
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Speaker 12: Actually, Justin's grandfather was up up here visiting with my
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Speaker 12: grandmother and he got the phone call that Justin was missing.
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Speaker 12: So my mom got in the vehicle with him and
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Speaker 12: went down to the low country. Our side of the family,
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Speaker 12: Justin's mom's side of the family was not allowed in
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Speaker 12: the actual search of Justin.
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Speaker 13: Why.
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Speaker 12: I really couldn't give you that. I really couldn't answer that.
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Speaker 2: That's very very odd.
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Speaker 1: Doctor John Delatori is joining us for now psychologists mediator
13:26
Speaker 1: specializing in forensic psychology. You can find doctor delatoriat resolution
13:31
Speaker 1: FCS dot com. Doctor delatory thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Man.
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Speaker 1: I would take all the help I could get to
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Speaker 1: try to find if to try to find one of
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Speaker 1: the twins.
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Speaker 2: If they went missing. I don't care who you are.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean the only reason why you wouldn't
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Speaker 4: is because you already knew where the person what had
13:49
Speaker 4: you gone.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I agree with that.
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Speaker 1: Sometimes if there's a family feud, people are so angry
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Speaker 1: they won't let the other side of the family have
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Speaker 1: anything to do with anything. And here you see Amy's
14:00
Speaker 1: mom and the grandfather job all the way down to
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Speaker 1: the low country to try to help search, and then
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Speaker 1: they're essentially banned from helping by the other side of
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Speaker 1: the family. It's amazing how feuse can run so deeply
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Speaker 1: that they interfere with finding a child.
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Speaker 2: It's amazing.
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Speaker 4: Well, again, the feuds of the feud might be present,
14:25
Speaker 4: but at that point, when you are in desperate, when
14:28
Speaker 4: you are legitimately desperate, you will take any help that
14:31
Speaker 4: you can get.
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Speaker 5: Feud or not.
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Speaker 4: And so it's important to understand that they if they
14:37
Speaker 4: are still holding onto the feud, it's because they know
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Speaker 4: that that other person has something and can recognize something
14:45
Speaker 4: that they don't want to be recognized.
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Speaker 1: Guys, the search goes on and then day two and
14:52
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. Nick Reagan, the dad researches
14:57
Speaker 1: the camper and finds.
15:00
Speaker 2: The little boy stuffed in a cabinet. Is that right?
15:05
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right. And one of the things that our
15:09
Speaker 7: reporter at the time noted I went back and I
15:11
Speaker 7: watched all of our our archived video, is that this
15:14
Speaker 7: was not a cabinet that was easy necessarily one that
15:18
Speaker 7: you could just open the camper and see. This was
15:20
Speaker 7: something that is a small cabinet underneath a bed or
15:24
Speaker 7: a couch, like a surface. It's something that you would
15:29
Speaker 7: have to you know, you would have to sort of
15:31
Speaker 7: know what're you're looking for. It's not something you scan
15:34
Speaker 7: the camper and you just see. You have to open
15:37
Speaker 7: things up and know how to get into these these cabinets. Specifically,
15:42
Speaker 7: joining me.
15:43
Speaker 1: Right now along with doctor Michelle Duprie is an expert
15:48
Speaker 1: who shot to fame nationwide. Along with doctor Duprix during
15:51
Speaker 1: the Alex and Murdock double murder trial, doctor Kenneth Cansei
15:56
Speaker 1: and I sat in the courtroom and watched his testimony
16:00
Speaker 1: the first.
16:00
Speaker 2: Time in the state's case.
16:01
Speaker 1: Since the opening statements, which were awesome, We're given the
16:05
Speaker 1: case finally all fit together. When Kenzie was explaining things
16:11
Speaker 1: on the stand, forensic expert. Former Orangeburg County Chief Deputy
16:16
Speaker 1: Owner Operator Kenny Kinzie and Associates, LLC. Former South Carolina
16:22
Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Divisions Special Agent doctor Kenzie. Thank you for
16:26
Speaker 1: being with us. Now correct me if I'm wrong. But
16:28
Speaker 1: on every search I ever attended and or supervised or
16:33
Speaker 1: executed myself, you do not leave any drawer, any cabinet,
16:41
Speaker 1: any surface.
16:44
Speaker 2: Unturned. You look in everything.
16:47
Speaker 1: Now you might look in a little bity drawer and think, well,
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Speaker 1: I'm not going to find.
16:52
Speaker 2: Anything in there.
16:52
Speaker 1: But if you don't look in there and then later
16:56
Speaker 1: something is found in there.
16:58
Speaker 2: Of course not a dead body, but it could be anything.
17:00
Speaker 1: It could be a gun, it could be a bullet,
17:02
Speaker 1: it could be a knife, it could be anything a
17:04
Speaker 1: pair of gloves. If you don't search exhaustively, then you
17:10
Speaker 1: will be attacked on cross examination, and it may be
17:13
Speaker 1: a nook or Creenny.
17:14
Speaker 2: You know you're not going to find anything, but you
17:17
Speaker 2: have to do it.
17:18
Speaker 1: So I find it very very odd that law enforcement
17:22
Speaker 1: Elie goes in. Day one, searches the camper because it's
17:25
Speaker 1: on the curtel, nche the premises. They find nothing. Day two,
17:31
Speaker 1: Dad goes in, opens one cabinet. He comes out in
17:34
Speaker 1: less than five minutes. He goes, my son's in there. Wow,
17:38
Speaker 1: it's a miracle, isn't it, Kensey, It's just a miracle.
17:43
Speaker 14: Great, great point, Nancy. You know, you check, you double check,
17:47
Speaker 14: you triple check, you change groups, you change teams, and
17:51
Speaker 14: get another perspective just in case you miss something that
17:55
Speaker 14: is very, very important. But you don't give up on
17:58
Speaker 14: it until that search is exhausted.
18:00
Speaker 1: I mean, you're up s crete without a paddle if
18:04
Speaker 1: you do not do an exhaustive search, Doctor Kenzie. I
18:08
Speaker 1: mean you were in LA law enforcement for years as
18:11
Speaker 1: a special agent. When you go and search its scene
18:14
Speaker 1: and not look in the drawers or.
18:15
Speaker 14: The cabinets, absolutely not. You can explain it away later.
18:19
Speaker 14: And like you said, your efforts may not be you
18:24
Speaker 14: may not find what you're looking for there, but you
18:27
Speaker 14: can explain it away later.
18:28
Speaker 1: Yes, you can explain what happened, because I find it very,
18:34
Speaker 1: very disturbing on multiple levels.
18:39
Speaker 2: Then on day one, Eli searches that camper and it's
18:43
Speaker 2: not big at all.
18:45
Speaker 1: Day two, the dad goes in and Bam, there's the
18:48
Speaker 1: baby right there. Why didn't you guys see it? Why
18:52
Speaker 1: didn't you look in the cabinet. I mean, somebody's gonna
18:55
Speaker 1: get Oh gosh, how can I say this without cursing
18:59
Speaker 1: a real dressing down, A real dressing down for not
19:02
Speaker 1: searching that cabinet. Okay, but that said, let's move forward.
19:07
Speaker 1: Obviously you find a dead body. What's the COO D
19:09
Speaker 1: cause of death? Why is a five year old dead
19:12
Speaker 1: and a cabinet? Did he wander in there? Did he
19:15
Speaker 1: hide in there and maybe have positional asphyxiation? Where?
19:20
Speaker 2: Well, how do I explain this?
19:21
Speaker 1: You know, like a baby, if you put it asleep
19:23
Speaker 1: in a car seat, it can tilt its head down
19:26
Speaker 1: and then cut off its own airway because of the
19:29
Speaker 1: position it's in, it asphyxiates and dies from lack of oxygen.
19:35
Speaker 1: Could that have happened? What does the autopsy show? Take
19:39
Speaker 1: a listen to Sidney Sumner cry online.
19:42
Speaker 11: An autopsy in forensic analysis is done on the five
19:45
Speaker 11: year old, and investigators determined that the boy had been
19:48
Speaker 11: placed inside the camper shortly after his triangulation death. A
19:51
Speaker 11: forensic pathologist report indicates the boy died a short time
19:54
Speaker 11: after eating his last meal.
19:56
Speaker 15: The Berkeley County Sheriff at the time mc cannon says
19:59
Speaker 15: accident death is ruled out. The coroner's autopsy report reveals
20:03
Speaker 15: the boy was sexually assaulted with some kind of cylindrical
20:06
Speaker 15: object and strangled to death. The case is officially ruled
20:09
Speaker 15: a homicide. Asked if any family members had been ruled
20:12
Speaker 15: out as suspects, the sheriff says, quote, we haven't ruled
20:15
Speaker 15: out anybody.
20:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
20:17
Speaker 1: Enter doctor Michelle Duprie, forensic pathologists, medical examiner, former detective,
20:23
Speaker 1: author of Money, Mischief and Murder. The murdog saga the
20:28
Speaker 1: rest of the story on Amazon. While that's all well
20:31
Speaker 1: and good, my favorite book she's written is Homicide Investigation
20:36
Speaker 1: Field Guide.
20:37
Speaker 2: She actually wrote the book.
20:39
Speaker 1: She also wrote Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. You can
20:44
Speaker 1: find her at d Michelle dupremd dot com. Doctor Duprix,
20:48
Speaker 1: it's a real honor to have you at doctor Kinzie.
20:51
Speaker 1: On the rest of the guests as well, Doctor Duprie,
20:54
Speaker 1: explain something to me, how do they know? How would
20:58
Speaker 1: they know?
21:00
Speaker 2: Anybody on the palet that can figure this out? Tell
21:02
Speaker 2: me that.
21:04
Speaker 1: The boy was placed in the camper after his strangulation death.
21:13
Speaker 2: How would they know that?
21:14
Speaker 13: Nancy? We look at the body. The body has an
21:16
Speaker 13: enormous amount of evidence and this is why we do
21:18
Speaker 13: an autopsy could determine the cause and manner of death
21:21
Speaker 13: and what happened.
21:22
Speaker 2: Let me guess, does it have anything to do with
21:24
Speaker 2: rigor or liver?
21:26
Speaker 13: It does, and it also has to do with stomach hut.
21:28
Speaker 2: So you taught me something.
21:29
Speaker 1: I don't know what exactly the point I'm trying to make,
21:33
Speaker 1: but I've got a feeling you're gonna explain. I just
21:35
Speaker 1: wanted to credit in case I was right. Okay, just
21:37
Speaker 1: in case, Okay, go ahead. How do they know the
21:40
Speaker 1: boy was dead, little five year old Justin Lee Turner?
21:45
Speaker 1: How would they possibly know who's dead before he was
21:48
Speaker 1: put in the cabinet?
21:49
Speaker 13: Nancy. We look at, as you said, rigor mortis, which
21:52
Speaker 13: is the stiffening of the body, And we also look
21:55
Speaker 13: at libra mortis, which is the settling of the blood
21:57
Speaker 13: according to gravity. And when we look at the body,
22:00
Speaker 13: those they have patterns on them like that, and so
22:03
Speaker 13: we can tell approximately when he was put into the camper.
22:06
Speaker 13: We can also look at stomach content.
22:08
Speaker 1: Rigor mortis, the stiffening of the bones, live or mortis,
22:11
Speaker 1: as I call it, where the blood settles. For instance,
22:14
Speaker 1: if you die while lying, Supine lying on.
22:18
Speaker 2: A bed, face up.
22:20
Speaker 1: Your blood eventually, once the heart stops pumping, will all
22:24
Speaker 1: settle down to your backside, your back, the back of
22:28
Speaker 1: your legs, your rear end. The blood settled to the
22:31
Speaker 1: lowest common point. So let's just think what she's saying,
22:37
Speaker 1: Dr Dupree. If you can tell he was didn't die
22:42
Speaker 1: in the cabinet based on the autopsy.
22:46
Speaker 2: What if it's live or mortise.
22:48
Speaker 1: What if all the blood in his body, Let's just
22:52
Speaker 1: say he's folded over in half and put in their
22:55
Speaker 1: face down, but all the blood has settled on his back,
23:01
Speaker 1: then you know he dies somewhere else, not there, because
23:06
Speaker 1: the blood had settled in reverse, which is impossible.
23:09
Speaker 13: And that tells us that the body was moved after death.
23:12
Speaker 2: How else can I tell the body was moved?
23:14
Speaker 13: Rigor mortis again is the stiffening of the muscles, And
23:17
Speaker 13: when a person is deceased and placed in a certain position,
23:21
Speaker 13: the body will stiffen and it will remain in that
23:24
Speaker 13: position until decomposition sets in. And so we can tell
23:28
Speaker 13: basically how he was placed into that position. He will
23:32
Speaker 13: remain stiff even when taken out from under the cabinet.
23:36
Speaker 1: Now, after about twenty four hours of rigor mortis stiffening.
23:40
Speaker 1: Doesn't your body loosen back up?
23:41
Speaker 13: It tends to, yes, but it depends on many factors,
23:44
Speaker 13: such as the temperature and other things.
23:45
Speaker 1: You know, another thing, Well, there's so many things. It's
23:48
Speaker 1: just really upsetting about this. But I also hear that
23:53
Speaker 1: autopsy reveals the boy had been molested sex and molested
24:00
Speaker 1: with a quote cylindrical tool, a cylindrical object. What do
24:07
Speaker 1: they say, don't hold back, please just tell me like
24:11
Speaker 1: it is.
24:12
Speaker 13: Basically, they're saying that there was an object probably inserted
24:14
Speaker 13: into his anus. That was a sexual assault.
24:18
Speaker 1: So the boy was anally raped with a cylindrical object, strangled,
24:26
Speaker 1: not necessarily in that order, but if there is bleeding
24:30
Speaker 1: to the anus throer end, then we know who was
24:34
Speaker 1: raped in life, not post mortem, then strangled then put
24:41
Speaker 1: in the camper. Would you say, Dr Dupree, that that
24:46
Speaker 1: is the correct order of events?
24:48
Speaker 13: I would think, sir antsy yes, And how horrible that
24:51
Speaker 13: is to have this done to you.
24:52
Speaker 1: Well, my response to that, Doctor Kenneth Kinzie, is somebody
24:57
Speaker 1: better get the death penalty. You've got a a five
25:00
Speaker 1: year old little boy anally raped, strangled, and stuffed into
25:06
Speaker 1: a cabinet in a camper. It's about the size of
25:09
Speaker 1: a microwave at best.
25:11
Speaker 2: Uh uh.
25:12
Speaker 1: If you're gonna have the death penalty, this is the case.
25:16
Speaker 1: Would you agree or disagree?
25:17
Speaker 7: Uh?
25:18
Speaker 14: You know, I'm pretty strong on a death penalty, Nancy.
25:21
Speaker 14: And the question you've got to ask is is this
25:23
Speaker 14: a taxonomy of staging this scene? And was it prior
25:28
Speaker 14: to death or was it done after death?
25:31
Speaker 5: Well?
25:31
Speaker 1: Well, wait, you actually think there's a difference. Okay, yeah,
25:35
Speaker 1: I think there's a difference too, because the child suffered
25:38
Speaker 1: even more during an anal rape.
25:40
Speaker 14: But well, there's no difference in the way we look
25:43
Speaker 14: at it, but there's a difference in the psychology of
25:46
Speaker 14: the killer.
25:46
Speaker 1: Do I care if they kill the boy and staged
25:50
Speaker 1: it or if they Well, of course, Wait are you
25:55
Speaker 1: telling me you think the outcome of a DP would
25:58
Speaker 1: turn on whether the boy was raped post mortem, after death,
26:02
Speaker 1: or before death.
26:03
Speaker 14: I think a successful prosecution depends on those applements.
26:08
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, You stick to what you're doing,
26:10
Speaker 1: and I'll stick to what I'm doing. Okay, I'll stay
26:12
Speaker 1: in my lane if you stay in yours. Okay, I
26:14
Speaker 1: can't guarantee you that's going to happen. Amy Parsons is
26:18
Speaker 1: with us, and Amy, I want to apologize for reanalyzing
26:24
Speaker 1: these facts because I know that they're hurtful. But when
26:28
Speaker 1: did you learn, Amy Parsons, that your little cousin, Justin
26:33
Speaker 1: Lety Turner H five had been anally raped and strangled
26:40
Speaker 1: and then left in a scene that was clearly staged.
26:43
Speaker 1: Any altering of a scene, such as placing the body
26:47
Speaker 1: in a different location, is staging.
26:49
Speaker 2: When did you learn all of those facts, Amy.
26:52
Speaker 12: I personally didn't learn as far as the statial assault
26:56
Speaker 12: part until I was older myself and started researching on
27:01
Speaker 12: my own, because that's something that my family did not
27:03
Speaker 12: actually put out to us as kids. The rest of it,
27:08
Speaker 12: as far as him being strangled, faced in the in
27:13
Speaker 12: the camper, of course I knew at when it happened.
27:17
Speaker 12: As soon as everything came out, we knew all that information.
27:20
Speaker 1: Then you know, that's a phenomena that I've seen and experienced.
27:26
Speaker 1: What you're saying, doctor John Delatory, I think I need
27:28
Speaker 1: a shrink in our culture. We can say, oh, the
27:34
Speaker 1: little boy was strangled dead, then he was folded up
27:38
Speaker 1: like laundry and stuffed into a cabinet.
27:41
Speaker 2: But we can't say he was raped. She's right. No
27:45
Speaker 2: one wants to touch that with a ten foot pole.
27:47
Speaker 14: Why.
27:48
Speaker 4: Well, I think there's a bunch of reasons why. But
27:51
Speaker 4: some of it is derived from the very puritanical way
27:56
Speaker 4: in which we view sex.
27:57
Speaker 2: This is not sex, this is all.
28:01
Speaker 4: We'd rather not discuss anything revolving around a sexual assault
28:07
Speaker 4: at all, right, We'd rather just push it to the side.
28:11
Speaker 4: We'd rather push victims to the side rather than actually
28:15
Speaker 4: confronting the reality of what it means to be sexually assault.
28:19
Speaker 2: You're right, You're absolutely right.
28:22
Speaker 1: It's not just Amy's parents and relatives that didn't tell
28:25
Speaker 1: her that her little cousin had been anally raped. This
28:29
Speaker 1: is universal. I've seen it so many times. I remember
28:34
Speaker 1: in a case I was helping on. I hadn't started
28:37
Speaker 1: trying cases yet. There was a preschool teacher that was
28:42
Speaker 1: kidnapped in Atlanta and murdered. I remember the defense name,
28:48
Speaker 1: Emmanuel Hammond's. And as I recall, there was a woman
28:52
Speaker 1: that turned out to be a similar transaction, and she
28:54
Speaker 1: had been kidnapped and raped, and she had never told
28:58
Speaker 1: her husband because she was ashamed. And she got up
29:04
Speaker 1: on the stand and testify, but she never would mention
29:06
Speaker 1: the rape, and I'm like, I couldn't understand. Being a
29:10
Speaker 1: new prosecutor, I had never encountered that before.
29:13
Speaker 2: Why won't she testify to the rape and point to
29:16
Speaker 2: the defendant.
29:17
Speaker 1: In her culture, it was taboo to even talk about it.
29:21
Speaker 1: So it's very, very pervasive. Okay, let's move forward. Take
29:25
Speaker 1: listen to Sheriff Dwayne Lewis, because I'm seeing a lot
29:29
Speaker 1: of red flags here.
29:30
Speaker 6: Listen, Pamblet changed her name, they moved to the Upstate,
29:34
Speaker 6: and nobody that I'm aware of from any of the
29:37
Speaker 6: family has ever heard from them again.
29:40
Speaker 5: And that's strange. I never got.
29:42
Speaker 6: One phone call, one phone call from his daddy or
29:48
Speaker 6: his stepmother. What are y'all doing about my son's death?
29:54
Speaker 5: Not one? What does that tell you?
29:59
Speaker 3: Investigators ask the Turners to take a polygraph test, and
30:02
Speaker 3: we're taking to SLED headquarters. The day after the couple
30:05
Speaker 3: took the polygraph test, they hired at Charleston attorney Dale
30:08
Speaker 3: Cobb to represent them. Cobb refused to let the Turners
30:12
Speaker 3: speak with investigators.
30:13
Speaker 1: You know, this reminds me of a colleague and a friend,
30:17
Speaker 1: Mark Class, now a giant in crime fighting, when his
30:21
Speaker 1: daughter Polly was kidnapped, assaulted, and murdered.
30:25
Speaker 2: Of course, they came to his place and wanted to
30:27
Speaker 2: search his home.
30:28
Speaker 1: He's like, fine, do whatever you have to do. Take
30:31
Speaker 1: my fingerprints, take my blood, take anything and my hair,
30:36
Speaker 1: search my place, search my office, search my car, so you.
30:39
Speaker 2: Can get on and find who took Polly. Right.
30:43
Speaker 1: But these parents, let me understand this, Nick Reagan joining
30:46
Speaker 1: is wcsc the parents. The stepmom changes her name, and
30:53
Speaker 1: they move away, and they never check on this little
30:58
Speaker 1: boy Justin Lee Turner's case. Did that happen?
31:01
Speaker 7: That definitely happened, Nancy. It was such an important part
31:05
Speaker 7: of that press conference to hear the sheriff reveal that
31:09
Speaker 7: in those thirty four years he had never received a
31:13
Speaker 7: phone call or an inquiry from now Megan Turner or
31:19
Speaker 7: Victor Turner to get an update in the case of
31:22
Speaker 7: their dead child. He did say, though, during that press
31:26
Speaker 7: conference that when he was elected, when he was first elected,
31:30
Speaker 7: he heard from Justin's family. They called and said, hey,
31:35
Speaker 7: what's the update and what are you doing about this
31:39
Speaker 7: cold case. Another thing I just want to mention really
31:42
Speaker 7: quickly is that we talk about the Turner's silence in
31:46
Speaker 7: this case. They did that polygraph, and then they were
31:49
Speaker 7: silent to investigators for effectively thirty four years. One thing
31:55
Speaker 7: that Dwayne Lewis, the sheriff, said again during that press conference,
31:58
Speaker 7: a reporter had asked him, have you heard from them?
32:01
Speaker 7: Have they spoken? Have you asked them questions? And he said,
32:06
Speaker 7: once again, they are maintaining their silence. They took a
32:09
Speaker 7: three hour car ride from Lauren down to Berkeley County,
32:14
Speaker 7: didn't say a word to them.
32:15
Speaker 1: I agree Nick Reagan, and also I believe that was
32:20
Speaker 1: delatory speaking. But then a big forensic clue, as fishy
32:26
Speaker 1: as the dad and stepmom are acting, that's not enough
32:30
Speaker 1: to prosecute a case or even Brian acase.
32:33
Speaker 2: Listen, the murder weapon.
32:35
Speaker 15: A ligature was found inside the Turner's home, and according
32:38
Speaker 15: to a report by WCSC, it matched the marks on
32:41
Speaker 15: Justin Turner's body. Microscopic fibers on the ligature were consistent
32:46
Speaker 15: with Justin's shirt collar material. According to a forenic pathologist,
32:50
Speaker 15: Justin's body was hidden in a cabinet in the camper
32:53
Speaker 15: a short time after his death, near the time he
32:55
Speaker 15: was last seen alive.
32:56
Speaker 1: So he's lasting alive by the stepmom, wh and takes
33:00
Speaker 1: a shower instead of walking him to the bus stop.
33:03
Speaker 1: He never makes it to the bus stop, and at autopsy,
33:07
Speaker 1: the medical examiner can determine that he was murdered very
33:12
Speaker 1: quickly after he was last seen alive, after stepmom saw him.
33:19
Speaker 2: So what happened within the next thirty minutes?
33:22
Speaker 1: Now we have the ligature found in the dad's the
33:26
Speaker 1: bio dad and Stepmom's home, and I need to understand
33:30
Speaker 1: doctor Kenneth Kinzie, forensic expert.
33:33
Speaker 2: You can find them at Kenny Kenzie and Associates.
33:36
Speaker 1: How is it that the ligature?
33:42
Speaker 2: What did it have fibers from Justine's shirt on it?
33:46
Speaker 14: Yeah, Nancy advancements and forensic testing. I just commend them
33:50
Speaker 14: for holding on to that evidence. But from what I
33:54
Speaker 14: from my research, they have, the fibers are consistent with
33:58
Speaker 14: the collar on Justine's shirt. And hopefully they've got some
34:03
Speaker 14: great impression documentation or they may even have the ligature itself,
34:08
Speaker 14: which would be even better.
34:10
Speaker 16: But that's wrong.
34:10
Speaker 14: Strong friends of Kevin to.
34:12
Speaker 1: Nick Reagan joining us at me see USA. What was
34:15
Speaker 1: the ligature they're talking about? Was it a wrote, was
34:18
Speaker 1: it pantyhose, a scarf?
34:19
Speaker 2: What was it?
34:20
Speaker 7: Right now? I'm not one hundred percent certain what that
34:23
Speaker 7: literature was, but you can look at the evidence here
34:27
Speaker 7: that the sheriff brought out. He pointed to to things.
34:30
Speaker 7: He pointed to that that consistent marks on the neck
34:35
Speaker 7: with the ligature and those fibers, which new technology was
34:40
Speaker 7: able to bring out that evidence. And then the other
34:44
Speaker 7: thing which was mentioned a little bit earlier, but again
34:46
Speaker 7: attributed to modern technology in breaking the cold case, was
34:50
Speaker 7: that stomach content. The forehand, the sheriff had suggested that
34:56
Speaker 7: Justin could have been murdered twenty four to forty eight
34:58
Speaker 7: hours beforehand, but now with that new technology, they looked
35:02
Speaker 7: at the stomach contests and said, no, he was murdered
35:05
Speaker 7: the morning that Pamela Turner says that he was getting
35:10
Speaker 7: on the butt.
35:25
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace to doctor John Delatory, James
35:32
Speaker 1: shell Nutt, and doctor Kenzie. We know that the scene
35:36
Speaker 1: was staged. Now that can mean anything. I had one
35:40
Speaker 1: case where a woman was found dead on her bed
35:43
Speaker 1: and the killer had taken.
35:45
Speaker 2: Her bathroom wicker basket and put it over the victim's head.
35:50
Speaker 1: I've seen in cases where a murder was staged to
35:53
Speaker 1: look like a suicide. That's staged. It could be a
35:58
Speaker 1: number of things. This scene was staged, And what I
36:02
Speaker 1: have learned is just in my own experience practically speaking anecdotally.
36:08
Speaker 2: This is not a.
36:08
Speaker 1: Statistic that when someone takes the time to stage a scene,
36:15
Speaker 1: they are known to the victim. In other words, a
36:19
Speaker 1: guy breaks into your home to burgle, sees you, he
36:24
Speaker 1: goes oh and shoots you, then runs. It doesn't take
36:29
Speaker 1: the time to make it look like a suicide. No, No,
36:33
Speaker 1: they just want to get away, all right. It's someone
36:37
Speaker 1: that's connected to the victim that will take the times
36:41
Speaker 1: to stage the scene, like Alex Murdock.
36:44
Speaker 7: What about it, Kizzie, good point, Nancy, I mean, is that.
36:48
Speaker 2: What you found?
36:49
Speaker 1: She'll know you were twenty seven years on Metro major case.
36:52
Speaker 2: Who takes the time to stage something when it's a random.
36:56
Speaker 16: Killing, Well, the person who takes the time to do
36:58
Speaker 16: is the person who knows that they don't stage it,
37:01
Speaker 16: it's going to be very obvious that they were involved
37:03
Speaker 16: with it, so they want to stage it to make
37:05
Speaker 16: it a little like somebody else did. It's very simple,
37:07
Speaker 16: dot a eleatory.
37:08
Speaker 2: Can you explain it in psychology.
37:09
Speaker 4: Talk, It's about recognizing the level of guilt that the
37:14
Speaker 4: person knows is going to be reflected onto that and
37:18
Speaker 4: because of that, they have to mask it. They have
37:20
Speaker 4: to hide the behavior both for themselves but also to
37:24
Speaker 4: other people, especially to other people because of the quickness
37:29
Speaker 4: with which they would be fold found out. The only
37:32
Speaker 4: person that has that ability is a person that has
37:34
Speaker 4: time to do so and the wherewithal to do it.
37:39
Speaker 13: Mm hmmm.
37:40
Speaker 1: Take a listen at our cut twelve to the sheriff,
37:42
Speaker 1: Sheriff Dwayne Lewis, Berkeley Sheriffs.
37:45
Speaker 6: So there's been a lot of different things and statements
37:48
Speaker 6: made when you when you look at the scene, you
37:54
Speaker 6: can you can assume by looking at it that it
37:58
Speaker 6: was somewhat of stage scene to make it look like
38:02
Speaker 6: something that it wasn't, and all that will come out.
38:07
Speaker 5: We'll get to all that.
38:08
Speaker 6: But there's a lot of inconsistencies in the story and
38:12
Speaker 6: the information and what the deputies, detective and SLED agents
38:18
Speaker 6: d n R agents were told when they first got
38:21
Speaker 6: there to try to piece the thing together.
38:23
Speaker 1: We're told by the bio dad Victor Lee Turner, and
38:29
Speaker 1: the stepmother Pamela Turner changed her name to Megan Renee Turner.
38:34
Speaker 1: You know, to you Nick Reagan WCSC. Something very very
38:40
Speaker 1: damning was learned from the contents of this little boy's stomach.
38:46
Speaker 2: Tell me, and at the time of the murder.
38:50
Speaker 1: That could not be analyzed in the way that it
38:53
Speaker 1: can be analyzed. Now, tell me about the contents of
38:56
Speaker 1: his stomach, right, Nancy.
38:58
Speaker 7: You know, this is a thirty four year old cold case.
39:01
Speaker 7: In nineteen eighty nine, the forensic evidence technology just wasn't
39:05
Speaker 7: there to seal up the case. But what we've known
39:09
Speaker 7: in the last couple of years. The sheriff came out,
39:13
Speaker 7: he said, new technology is why we're able to break
39:17
Speaker 7: this cold case.
39:18
Speaker 2: The contents of the stomach.
39:20
Speaker 7: The contents of the stomach here in this case, they
39:23
Speaker 7: said they were able to look at the contents of
39:26
Speaker 7: the stomach to determine time of death. And they compared
39:30
Speaker 7: it to statements that they had collected from the scene
39:34
Speaker 7: to nail down when they believed when Justin Turner had
39:39
Speaker 7: been killed, and they determined that he had been killed
39:41
Speaker 7: that morning that his stepmother said he got on the bus.
39:45
Speaker 2: You know, that's amazing.
39:46
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupriy, I thought that trying to determine time
39:50
Speaker 1: of death based on stomach contents was not that easy,
39:54
Speaker 1: So how did they do it?
39:55
Speaker 2: Doctor duprie h.
39:56
Speaker 13: Nancy, You're right, it's not that easy because everybody metabolized
40:00
Speaker 13: steps food differently. But when there are still stomach contents
40:04
Speaker 13: available to analyze, then you do know that it is
40:07
Speaker 13: within a range of time frames, and so you can
40:09
Speaker 13: determine from that that it was relatively short.
40:12
Speaker 1: In last hours a major development. Take a listen to
40:16
Speaker 1: Sheriff Lewis.
40:16
Speaker 6: I wanted to report to the citizens of Berkeley County
40:19
Speaker 6: that yesterday, January ninth, at ten am, detectives from the
40:26
Speaker 6: Berkeley County Sheriff's Office was able to arrest and take
40:31
Speaker 6: into custody Victor Lee Turner and Pamela Turner also known
40:37
Speaker 6: as Making Turner. They were taken into custody at their
40:43
Speaker 6: home which is located in Cross Hills, South Carolina, which
40:47
Speaker 6: is in Lawrence County. Lawrence County Sheriff's Office assisted us
40:50
Speaker 6: with the arrest. They have been transported back to the
40:55
Speaker 6: Berkeley County Jail.
40:56
Speaker 5: They are incarcerated at this time.
40:59
Speaker 2: Nick, has the death penalty been announced?
41:04
Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge.
41:05
Speaker 2: I want to go to Amy Parsons joining us. This
41:07
Speaker 2: is then little five year old.
41:09
Speaker 1: Justin Turner cousin, Amy, since the time of your little
41:16
Speaker 1: cousin's murder, what toll has this taken on your family?
41:22
Speaker 12: It's taking a tremendous toll. I mean, you guys think
41:26
Speaker 12: his mom literally called the Sheriff's office every day that
41:33
Speaker 12: she lived, beg and please, can you, you know, find
41:36
Speaker 12: who killed my who killed my son. She passed away
41:39
Speaker 12: in two thousand and four and never got that that
41:43
Speaker 12: peace of mind. She felt, as everybody else did at
41:47
Speaker 12: the time, who did it. But at the same time,
41:53
Speaker 12: they were not prosecuted. I mean, they were still out there.
41:56
Speaker 12: So for her it was it was something than that
42:00
Speaker 12: affected her, you know, basically her whole life.
42:05
Speaker 14: It was.
42:06
Speaker 12: It was very traumatic, that feeling of.
42:10
Speaker 2: Helplessness of injustice.
42:14
Speaker 1: Knowing that the killer was walking free, and that this
42:17
Speaker 1: little boy had been raped, mistreated and murdered and nothing
42:24
Speaker 1: happened for all those years.
42:26
Speaker 2: I mean, I can see that tearing a family apart. Amy.
42:30
Speaker 12: Luckily, you know, our family is a strong family. We
42:33
Speaker 12: held it together and we just wanted what was best
42:37
Speaker 12: for our family, and that was to put the murderer
42:40
Speaker 12: behind bars. It didn't matter who it was. I mean,
42:44
Speaker 12: we just wanted them to serve time for what they
42:47
Speaker 12: had done.
42:48
Speaker 1: And what has the family reaction been with the arrest
42:52
Speaker 1: of his own bio dad and stepmother.
42:55
Speaker 12: Like I said before, our family felt like we knew
42:58
Speaker 12: who had done it. There just wasn't enough evidence there
43:02
Speaker 12: for them to be able to prosecute on it. I
43:06
Speaker 12: knew that it would it would take something like being
43:12
Speaker 12: able to forensically tie them. Of course, over the years,
43:18
Speaker 12: I've stayed in touch with the Sheriff's office and and
43:21
Speaker 12: they've sent different things to be analyzed, and it just
43:27
Speaker 12: it was It's kind of bittersweet. It's one of those
43:30
Speaker 12: moments where you know you're you're so happy and excited
43:34
Speaker 12: that we finally got to this point. There's still a
43:36
Speaker 12: long road ahead.
43:38
Speaker 2: And this is what Sheriff Dwayne Lewis has to say.
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Speaker 5: I have to say, I'm hoping and I'm praying that
43:47
Speaker 5: Justin is looking down from heaven rejoicing that today there's
43:55
Speaker 5: some justice. There's still some justice in this country.
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Speaker 2: Sheriff Lewis. Truer words were never spoken. We wait as
44:09
Speaker 2: justice unfolds. Good Bye friend,