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From Success to Wholeness: Jen Thompson on Living Authentically · Authentic Living

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Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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about things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
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Everyone.
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It's Roxanne Durhoch.
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Thanks for tuning in again to Authentic Living with Roxanne.
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Today, I have a special guest, Jen Thompson.
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Jen has written a book that we'll dive right into, but let me tell you a little bit about
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Jen.
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But Jen, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you so much for having me, Roxanne.
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It's really my pleasure to be here.
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Thank you.
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So let me tell you a little bit about Jen and a little bit about what we're gonna talk about
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today.
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She is a former political campaign manager, a con...
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Congressional lawyer, and current chief of staff at the University of Redlands in
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California.
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And she's written a book which has just been released two weeks ago.
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And it's...
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The title is From a Political Life Rewritten, published...
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Sorry.
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I'm gonna start that over.
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It's Notes from a Political Life Rewritten, published by SheWritesPress.
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And the book goes in basically the exploration on the cost of telling the truth and a raw
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personal reflection from a woman that walked away from a powerful political identity.
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So what a world that must have been like, Jen.
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So start where...
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Tell us a little bit about you.
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What got you do political science in school, and did you go right into law school?
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What's your path that you took?
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It's so funny Roxanne, I'm happy to do that.
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Thanks for that introduction and for the question.
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I'll just answer with something funny, which is I never took a political science course in my
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life.
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I was raised Roxanne in a very Christian conservative household with a father who was
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extremely driven, extremely driven towards success.
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He was very conservative and that's how I was raised.
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And the expectation for me was to be very successful.
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When I was young, I was this kind of free spirit climb trees, wore wranglers.
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I was a singer.
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You might hear that in my voice.
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That was not okay.
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I had to be something that was really successful in my father's eyes.
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And so when I was in college, was forced to pivot and I went to law school at that point.
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And from law school, I went into the Congress as a junior lawyer first in the house and then
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in the Senate really doubling down, promoting those Christian conservative values.
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And that was until I got into a horrible car accident when I was running a senate campaign
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in Missouri, the most pivotal senate campaign in the country at that point, one that would
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determine the tide of the senate, whether it would be in republican or Democrat control.
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And I got in this horrible car accident, and that was the moment that everything changed for
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me.
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So you grew up, like you said, very conservative.
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But it's clearly just even your energy.
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I could tell the space that you're in and you're creative.
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Right?
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You like music.
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Did that get nurtured?
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Or did you nurture that and keep it in the background?
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Or did you stay connected?
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Or did you just do the things to get the kind of the kudos from the family system that you're
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around?
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Yeah.
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It's a great question.
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And I've always tried to nurture that creative spirit within me.
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I used to write these short stories when I was young about being a princess who was also a
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pirate and sing along to Broadway musicals.
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I went to Interlochen Arts Academy, which is one of the premier arts academies really in the
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world when I was in high school.
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So to some extent that was nurtured, but it was pretty much a solo nurturing.
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It was something that I had to do by myself and navigate by myself to a large extent.
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And when I was in college, my parents graciously paid for my college education.
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After my freshman year, I was a music major fully intending to go into that space.
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And my dad said he wouldn't pay for college anymore if I continued on that trajectory.
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So I was an adult, I guess, that point I could have gone my own way and done that, but I was
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too afraid.
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And that's one of the things that wild pivot is about fear in overcomer in overcoming the
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wiring that we are wired with from a very young age.
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I look back now I'm much older now and I see how much I was wired and it took me years and
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decades really to explore that, figure it out, and try to become unwired.
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And so at that time when my father said he wouldn't pay for college anymore, if I
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continued on that creative and singing path, I was too afraid.
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I wanted his approval.
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I obviously wanted to finish college.
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I didn't know how else I would be able to afford it.
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And so I chose the path of pivoting to become someone much more like what my father wanted to
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see.
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And that's what brought me to law school.
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So you go to a law school, and I'm thinking this creative mind, not that law school and the
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space that you went into, I'm sure the problem solving and all the things that you had to do,
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there was a creativity in that.
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For sure.
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But I'm gonna assume that you had to stifle certain things when you get into the political
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arena.
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And tell me about that.
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And what did you do with those nigglings along the way?
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Because you're driven obviously the things you've done.
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You're not talking like you're doing a nine to five, gonna park it.
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You're living this reality but you're still bringing that space within yourself that
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somehow you're able to...
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You learn to tuck it away in a way that allowed you to continue to produce.
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I love that word niggling, and I use it myself.
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And tuck away.
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My gosh.
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Yes.
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What happened to me, Roxanne, is that not only did I tuck it away, I buried it 10 feet
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underground because what I did is I learned in law school and then in the Congress to become
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the most hyper successful person I could be rather than embrace me or those creative
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pursuits, my my very authentic energy.
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I buried it because I didn't like what it was telling me and so, what I didn't said is I
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swapped it out for desire to be powerful, successful, wealthy, acclaimed.
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That's what replaced that.
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It didn't truly replace it because I remained who I was, but I shut that down for years in
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order to be successful and to get where I needed to go.
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So I'm the classic example of someone who, a young person, a young woman, shut down the
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truest things about myself in order to go for those things that other people wanted of me.
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I was an adult at that point, Roxanne.
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I'm one who wants to take personal responsibility.
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And in my book, Wild Pivot, I I do take personal responsibility, but I also look at the
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reasons that happened to me, how I was built, how I was wired, because I think we have to do
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that in order to figure out how to become unwired and to become our most authentic true
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selves.
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So let's talk about power and how that's...
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Could be potentially diametrically opposed to authenticity or not because I'm curious about
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that right?
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So clearly you're driven, you recognize I picked this arena and I'll get to your point.
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I'm an adult now okay?
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Whatever happened, I said yes.
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I won't go down the creative path.
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I'm going down the political path and the legal path.
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So somewhere in your brain then you recognize and you're in this arena where, like you said,
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super successful, no thought about, I can't half assed this, I have to do this well.
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So
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how did that kind of play out like with that authentic, again, authentic self?
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Cause I'm thinking it's always there, right?
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I think of my people.
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Yeah.
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I
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couldn't agree more with that.
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I look back now all these years later and I can still feel that pulse that was within me, that
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thread of authenticity.
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But what I did is just completely shut it down.
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I mean, what happened to me is that I became, as I I've said, hyper focused on success,
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power, and moving ahead as quickly as I could.
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And by the time I was 29, Roxanne, a woman in the early two thousands, I was asked to run a
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senate campaign, the most pivotal senate campaign in The United States, one that, at the
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time, president George w Bush put that as his very top race.
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I was running that at 29.
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So I think that shows that's an anomaly, but it also shows how driven I was.
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And the way that I got there was to shut down what my insides were telling me.
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And what happened is during that Senate campaign, this was in 2002.
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This was the race that was pegged to overturn the Senate.
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It was fifty fifty divided at that time.
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And this was the race that was going to tilt it back to Republican control.
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And I was driving on my way to a campaign event across the state of Missouri.
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And I was about two hours away from St.
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Louis, which is where the campaign headquarters were.
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Thank god I was in the car all by myself driving to this campaign event but I was
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struck.
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My vehicle was struck from behind by a massive tractor trailer which caused my vehicle to flip
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in the air three times.
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I remember it as if it were yesterday, the top crashing down on the roof over and over until I
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landed in the embankment and my car caught on fire and they couldn't get me out.
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Oh my goodness.
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They did
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obviously
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finally get me out.
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But I remember sitting after that happened in the ambulance thinking what on earth am I
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doing?
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It was like, Roxanne, Roxanne.
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I couldn't shut down what was inside of me anymore.
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Those seeds of authenticity were that were inside me that were trying to grow that I had
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not nurtured or watered for years, maybe even decades.
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I couldn't ignore them anymore.
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That's what happened to me on that day.
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And so that caused the very beginnings of my own wild pivot where I could not shut down my
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authenticity anymore.
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So were you hurt?
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So I was extremely lucky.
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My car, I was in a Ford Explorer and the roof of the vehicle crashed down all the way to the
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seats, everywhere in the car, but around me, it was like I was in a bubble, like a cocoon.
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It was the most insane thing.
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When the firefighters pulled me out, they had to pull me out of the window because my car was
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so mangled and it fell on its side.
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They had to pull me out through the window.
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And when they pulled me out, they, the firefighter told me that he expected to find a
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corpse in that car.
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He could not believe that I was not only conscious but able to walk.
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And I was able to walk.
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I broke six ribs.
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I was bruised from the top of my head all the way down to my toes.
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I was a walking bruise for three or four weeks, but I could walk and nothing.
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There was, there were no other internal injuries.
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It's it's I wouldn't believe it if it didn't happen to me, but it's
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like a miracle that it just got away.
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It felt like that, but I'll tell you in, in the ambulance so many people would thank the
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divine, thank the universe be so, be so grateful.
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That's not how I was at all.
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I felt utterly distraught.
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I don't believe in anything that I'm doing.
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Why on earth was I saved?
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I don't deserve it.
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I'm not worthy.
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It it was crushing.
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I talk about in Wild Pivot that I cried.
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From the ambulance all the way to the hospital and still then I'm kids was years ago.
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I feel that's still here.
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Now he's getting, you're getting flooded.
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Can tell
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totally you.
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you.
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Am because it, of course, I was grateful I survived, but that was not the overwhelming
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feeling.
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The overwhelming feeling was I was not living a life of authenticity and meaning that was true
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to myself.
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That is what leveled me.
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Wow.
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So talk about a wake up much more than a wake up call.
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So let's talk about the pivot because I'm, I'm fascinated by this, right, to go from those
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worlds.
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You're crying because you you realize you kinda...
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I'm gonna say you bailed out on yourself a long time ago, but you made success out of something
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that was there in your room.
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Then what?
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What happens then?
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It was so hard because...
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Okay.
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This was eight months before election day.
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Biggest campaign in the country.
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I've been leading this campaign.
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I wanted to do honor to my commitment, to my boss, and yet all of these feelings were, like,
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raging inside of me.
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So when I finished the campaign, which I vowed to myself, I needed to do.
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I had a job offer to work in George W.
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Bush's white house.
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I also had a job offer to be a chief of staff in the Senate.
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I was 31 at the time and I turned both of them down.
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I still can't believe I did that.
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And I moved to Australia for an unpaid visiting professorship at the university of Melbourne.
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As I say, I can't believe I did it, but I did because I knew that I had to have space away
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from that world in order to start figuring out what had happened and what my feelings were
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about.
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So I made a drastic wild pivot.
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And there's something else I I just wanna say really quickly, Roxanne, before your next
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question is that, I did that.
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And I found the courage within myself to finally start being true to myself, but this
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was not a linear process.
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It did not happen overnight.
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It wasn't like I had that car accident and I was like, oh my gosh, now I get it.
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Hooray.
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I'm enlightened.
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It wasn't like that at all.
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It was scrappy.
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It was difficult.
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I lost friends.
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I, I lost these jobs.
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Thought I was nuts.
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I was at the very top of my game and I walked away and I moved to Australia.
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Who does that?
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Right.
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Who does that?
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I did that.
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They're probably thinking you're having a breakdown or something else.
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No question about it.
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No question about it.
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And and people thought I I was just crazy.
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I'd worked so hard for a decade to try to get into this place of power that I now occupied
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and I walked away.
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But something in me would not allow me to move forward in that space anymore.
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I had to find my own authenticity that did not, that was not a quick process.
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It was not neat.
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It was messy.
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It was difficult.
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It was very hard and it took a long time.
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So you said the time from the accident till you actually get to Australia is how long?
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Because you finished the campaign.
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Was like nine months, something like Nine months.
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And curiosity, parents, were they in the fray?
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Yeah.
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I tell, I talk about on wild pivot that when I was in Washington, DC, my dad, he thought I'd
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made it.
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I bought this hyper expensive Swedish convertible brand new and my dad turbo and my
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dad drove it one day and he thought I'd made it.
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This was his heaven.
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And then for me to tell him that I'm moving to Australia and giving up politics for an unpaid
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visiting professorship.
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Was a bit hard to to his credit.
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He tried to understand.
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He knew about the car accident.
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And I think he'd seen by that point what I was capable of in that realm.
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And so he let me go a little bit.
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I was 31 and completely financially independent at that point, but it wasn't easy.
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It was not easy.
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And I wouldn't say they were supportive, but they stuck by me amazingly and to their credit.
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So let's jump right into the book because I think I don't, I want, clearly I want people to
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hear what this is all about because how many people have done this in so many other realms,
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right?
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We have this trajectory and I don't know if you have kids Jen, you kind Two of kids have
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boys, God help me.
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I've got a 25 year old now.
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You kind of have these aspirations and then you're hoping that they're gonna go along.
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And how many people have lived?
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I think one of my best friends and she like you was the most phenomenal artist when we were
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like 13.
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I grew up in Trinidad and you know and she just you knew she was going to be an artist just
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because and her on her path as well because the parents said, well you're going to do art.
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Who's going to pay you for that?
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She ended up going to law school and doing the path like you and then eventually when she
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became quite successful as a lawyer she put herself through art school in London after the
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fact.
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How many people kind of can relate to this?
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So while pivot happens, talk to those people and tell them or people that are maybe still in
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this space that are bailing out and they're saying you maybe potentially you had means or
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you had the space or whatever, what kinds of things, if you could talk directly to them, you
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say that you've learned, but also that you've shared in Wow Pivot?
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Yeah, I'd say a couple of things.
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Thank you so much for that question.
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It means a lot to me.
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You know, Roxanne, my story is re...
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Hopefully really interesting.
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I was this high powered person in politics, and then I got in this crazy car accident.
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And I forsake politics and moved to Australia and have all these...
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Met all these amazing people and all these amazing experiences, and I hope that's
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interesting.
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But at the core, I feel like we are all the same and that we all want in our own ways to be
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authentic.
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And to do that requires really hard choices and asking extremely hard questions of ourselves.
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Who am I?
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What do I believe?
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What do I stand for?
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And that is really what wild pivot is all about.
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And I think that's a universal question because I believe maybe naively, but this is what I
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believe that all of us have that in us.
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It's just, it's hard.
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It's really hard.
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And so that, that really is what I would say to people.
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I'll say one other thing.
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And that is when I was young and making these choices that were against really my own
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interest against my own authenticity, people thought I was the strongest person in the room.
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I showed up strong.
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You can tell it in my personality.
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I had this personality even when I was young and people, men, women told me how strong I
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was, but what I didn't have was courage.
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And I think about the difference between strength and courage now.
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And I think there's a big difference.
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I've always been strong.
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But what I haven't always been is courageous.
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Take the time and listen to my own self, the drumbeat of my own heart and soul, and try to
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figure out how I can live in a way that is the most authentic to myself.
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And I believe that is what makes society, our families, our politics better.
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And that's what I hope Wild Pivot is about.
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I say all the time, Roxanne, that Wild Pivot's a book about politics that has absolutely
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nothing to do with politics.
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Even though it's all about politics, it's about what we're talking about right now.
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So when you think of where you've landed today and what that propel through the air radiating.
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I see it literally, I can visualize the way you explained it, that forward bronco propelling
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through the air and then landing.
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And you almost, I'm gonna say being cocooned in that seat.
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I can picture it in my brain.
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Something happened there that allowed you to say no more, right, no more.
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I'm gonna be courageous to finally follow through.
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So how did that lend into, like you said, you ended up in Melbourne.
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And what kind of things are you living now that you realized it took that courage to be able to
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get here?
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Yeah, it's such a great question.
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And the answer is not really linear.
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Let me say, I think of that time in the car accident, it was like I was an egg and somehow
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it cracked me open to let a little bit of light shine into my soul.
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And I think that's what happens certainly is what happened to me.
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And I think it happens to many many of us, if not most of us, that something happens in our
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life that allows this little crack of light.
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And we have that choice whether to continue on that path to have it open more or not.
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And some are willing to walk that path and others aren't because it's very difficult.
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There are no easy with authenticity.
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There are...
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In my experience, they're just aren't.
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It's hard and it's messy.
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And to ask ourselves the difficult questions that make us the most authentic is not easy
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work.
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But I believe that on the other side of this, where we become is whole.
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We're whole people.
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We
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show up to our own selves, our children, our families, our jobs, our society, our politics
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as whole people.
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Not that it ever ends.
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I think the journey to authenticity, you talk about this all the time.
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Roxanne, it is an ever evolving process.
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We never stop and say, I'm there.
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Thank goodness.
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Okay.
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Now, can stop and have a cupcake.
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Now, I can just sit and enjoy things.
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Exactly.
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There are those moments but it they don't last.
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I think we are continually propelled into a deeper journey with ourselves I think the
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reward is that we become more whole.
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On paper, one might say I was much more powerful when I was in my early thirties, but
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to myself, the power is endless because I know myself and I'm willing to show up as my own
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self.
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And that wholeness is the greatest gift.
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So that's what I would say.
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You know, in my second book, I talk about ROR, is return on relationship.
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And I start with leaders in whatever capacity.
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Whether you're the head of the t ball, you're the t ball coach or the hockey coach
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or
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the person at the community center that's helping out or you're in politics or you're
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running a company.
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It's really starting with you as a leader.
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And that core fundamental that you talk about in pivot is if I'm not in alignment with truly
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who I am, that yearning that I believe, like you say, we're meant to evolve into as we come
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into this path, right, one time through.
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And when we aren't aligned, what is that force field around us that we're projecting?
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We're not projecting the true essence of what we are or who we are, but we're projecting what
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society needs of us or what everybody else needs from us.
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And at some point, and I went through a bit of a similar scenario with my life where I was
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kind of incongruent with my value system and I was not told by a complete stranger after a
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corporate meeting and then laying on the ground, it's funny, I'm thinking of your car
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accident, mine was being...
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People thought it was a joke because I'm a psychologist, I did a lot of high level work
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and here I am, some complete stranger, someone I do not know, knocks me out.
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I'm laying, knocked out and then I wake up and I'm like, the stranger that got jumped out of
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his car to help me through this said, wrapped up his jacket and put it under my head and said
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words that I still talk about in my keynote and his words were, everything's gonna be alright.
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And that was my pivot, Jen, that since that day and I don't remember the date and the time, my
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life has never stopped changing and it was all for the better because I was incongruent with
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where I needed to go.
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Thank you so much for sharing that with me.
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And I think that's a beautiful story.
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And I will tell you that as I've been talking about this book on podcasts like yours about
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wild pivot and in live settings, I have lines of people who come up to me with stories like
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that.
26:45
I don't...
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I think all of us or at least many of us or maybe most of us have that moment.
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For me, it was a car accident.
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For you, it was the experience you just told but I think in life, we get these wake up
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calls.
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These moments of pivot and sometimes they're readily apparent right in the moment.
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Sometimes it takes us years and decades to unpack them.
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Because when they're difficult like mine was, I don't want to speak for you but for me, I was
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living in inauthentic life but my life was that.
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My salary, my fame, all of my accolades were tied up in this.
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And so to leave it, it wasn't just, oh, I want to be more authentic and great.
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It was like having to leave an entire life and to be maligned and ridiculed for that.
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And I said earlier, who wants to do that?
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No one wants to do that.
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Who wants to admit the job isn't right or the marriage isn't right or the floss it's too
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hard.
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Yeah.
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But we get these inklings like what you've just said, the niggling that word you used at the
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beginning that force us to at least reckon with ourselves, I think, and to ask those questions
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and we will each choose differently.
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But the degree I think we accept that challenge of listening to ourselves, I think we end up in
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profoundly different places, but it takes time and hard work.
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There are no easy buttons.
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There are no.
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And in my case, was inauthenticity in reference to my marriage.
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And I had the full life with all the things that I wanted but that was the one bucket that
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I was kind of, I could override because I kept flipping that switch and focusing on everything
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else.
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And that particular day laying on my back and hearing those words, I thought something has to
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shift.
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Because like you, the reality kicked in that what am I teaching my son?
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What am I doing to myself to be able to stay in the state, this hypervigilant state to keep a
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marriage together?
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And then that's when I made a break.
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And I think you're right.
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Almost courage.
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It does.
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It does.
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I've listened to you long enough.
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And this conversation, I think you'd agree.
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It takes a lot of courage.
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The rewards are
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incalculable,
29:06
but it's not easy and it takes work.
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Well, this has been an amazing conversation.
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Any last things that you think you should tell people about that they're gonna learn about in
29:18
Wild Pivot?
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Because it's definitely, I think, a read that everyone listening to this podcast, please go
29:24
out and buy a copy of this on I wanna read a copy of this as well.
29:28
I have not read Jen's book in in transparency.
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Any last words sold.
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You can find it on Simon and Schuster on my author page, Jen Thompson.
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The book is Well Pivot.
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You can visit my website, jenthompsonwritesthings.com.
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I have a substack and Roxanne, it's just been really my pleasure.
29:49
I I feel uplifted and empowered by this conversation and I'm just so grateful for you
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inviting me on.
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Thank you for having me.
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What an amazing story and one that needs to be told to people.
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And what I love about what you're saying is, and I think of my path as well, it's never in a
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linear line.
30:06
And courage is...
30:07
Not about...
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You may have that authentic voice and it's never the right time.
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It's gonna...
30:13
Like yours was scrappy, so was mine at the time I edit things.
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But I'm gonna tell you, all these years later, there's a thankfulness to that event in my life
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because I can look back on that day and look at all the things that I've done to achieve where
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I am today.
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And again, like you said, right, anybody would look at you and the the space that you had
30:37
created in your thirties, like, my goodness.
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What is she...
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What's she doing?
30:41
And now you're living in in congruence.
30:43
And for leaders out there, listen to this.
30:45
If you're knowing that you're not leading in whatever capacity, whether it's your home, your
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communities, or your businesses, this is something that you can learn by those little
30:56
nudges.
30:57
They're often there.
30:58
And if they're big enough, they're trying to teach you something, which I truly believe that
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the soul is speaking to you, and we only have one path and one one go through to really stop,
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listen, reflect, and start to think what little thing can I do today to start listening to that
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deep inner voice of authenticity?
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I love that.
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I think it's our superpower, Roxanne.
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I really do.
31:18
Absolutely.
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I completely agree.
31:21
So everyone, thanks again for listening.
31:23
Jen, thank you for your time.
31:24
For everybody, what's new, the ROR Masterclass is running with life coaching.
31:29
If you're interested and you're one of those leaders that are either out of alignment or
31:33
burnt out, please reach out and we'll let you know about the next cohort.
31:36
Again, take care everyone.
31:38
And Jen, thank you again and we'll talk to you soon.
31:40
Bye everyone.
31:40
Take care.
31:47
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
31:53
healthy change.
31:54
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
31:58
To work with Roxanne, visit roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
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We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.