Latest / Dimension Property Management / Dimension PM Reveals 5 Practical Tips for Lasting Property Value
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: You know, there is this really fascinating paradox when it
- 0:04Speaker 1: comes to real estate investing.
- 0:05Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, definitely.
- 0:06Speaker 1: I mean, you have these highly intelligent people, right? Like
- 0:10Speaker 1: folks with MBAs, seasoned investors who can read a complex
- 0:14Speaker 1: financial statement in their sleep. They buy a physical property
- 0:18Speaker 1: and suddenly they just start behaving completely irrationally.
- 0:21Speaker 2: Right. It's like their brains just turn off.
- 0:23Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. they would never ignore a gaping hole in
- 0:27Speaker 1: their stock portfolio, but they will completely ignore a, you know,
- 0:31Speaker 1: a slow drip under the sink of their rental property
- 0:34Speaker 1: just because dealing with a plumber on a Tuesday feels
- 0:36Speaker 1: like too much friction.
- 0:37Speaker 2: It really is a bizarre cognitive dissonance. The human brain
- 0:41Speaker 2: is just notoriously bad at assessing slow-moving incremental damage.
- 0:45Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
- 0:46Speaker 2: We are wired to react to sudden threats, right, like
- 0:49Speaker 2: a fire, but we completely blind ourselves to the slow
- 0:53Speaker 2: creeping threats, like deferred maintenance.
- 0:56Speaker 1: And that is exactly why we are here today. So
- 0:59Speaker 1: welcome to today's deep dive. We are looking at a
- 1:01Speaker 1: set of notes you, our listener, provided regarding property management
- 1:05Speaker 1: and maintenance.
- 1:06Speaker 2: It's a great set of notes, too.
- 1:07Speaker 1: It really is. Now, at first glance, a document about
- 1:10Speaker 1: property maintenance sounds like it's going to be kind of
- 1:14Speaker 1: a dry operational manual, like a checklist of chores.
- 1:17Speaker 2: Yeah, like change the air filters and sweep the porch.
- 1:20Speaker 1: Right, exactly. But once you actually look at the mechanisms
- 1:23Speaker 1: at play here, you realize it is nothing of the sort.
- 1:26Speaker 1: This document is fundamentally a masterclass in behavioral economics, systems thinking, and, well,
- 1:32Speaker 1: risk mitigation.
- 1:33Speaker 2: Precisely. And the mission of this deep dive is to
- 1:36Speaker 2: look at these five principles from your notes and really
- 1:40Speaker 2: extract the underlying psychology.
- 1:42Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 1:42Speaker 2: We want to explore how these strategies don't just fix buildings,
- 1:45Speaker 2: but actually rewire the behavior of both the property owner
- 1:49Speaker 2: and the tenant. It basically transforms a historically reactive, chaotic
- 1:54Speaker 2: endeavor into a highly predictable system.
- 1:57Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this because to understand the whole system,
- 2:00Speaker 1: we really have to look at how the physical reality
- 2:02Speaker 1: of a building intersects with the abstract data we keep
- 2:05Speaker 1: on it. Right. The notes you sent us make a
- 2:08Speaker 1: very deliberate choice. They immediately link the physical health of
- 2:11Speaker 1: the property, you know, the roofing, the plumbing, the HVAC,
- 2:14Speaker 1: directly to the administrative backbone of record keeping.
- 2:17Speaker 2: Which is a profound shift in how most people operate.
- 2:20Speaker 2: I mean, Most owners totally separate the physical from the administrative.
- 2:24Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
- 2:25Speaker 2: They think of maintenance as the guy with the wrench
- 2:28Speaker 2: and record keeping as the CPA with the spreadsheet. But
- 2:32Speaker 2: the source material merges them to combat what we can
- 2:35Speaker 2: call the small fix fallacy.
- 2:37Speaker 1: Right. And we need to talk about why intelligent people
- 2:40Speaker 1: fall for this fallacy because we all know that water
- 2:43Speaker 1: rots wood. That isn't a revelation.
- 2:45Speaker 2: Yeah. Nobody is surprised by that.
- 2:47Speaker 1: An experienced investor knows that a leaking pipe will eventually
- 2:50Speaker 1: destroy a subfloor. So why do they ignore it?
- 2:53Speaker 2: Well, it comes down to a psychological concept called hyperbolic discounting.
- 2:56Speaker 1: Okay, what is that exactly?
- 2:58Speaker 2: So given two similar rewards, humans show a preference for
- 3:02Speaker 2: one that arrives sooner rather than later. And in reverse,
- 3:06Speaker 2: when facing costs or pain, we prefer to push the
- 3:09Speaker 2: pain into the future.
- 3:11Speaker 1: Even if it gets worse?
- 3:12Speaker 2: Even if that future pain will be vastly larger, yeah.
- 3:16Speaker 2: Paying $ 200 today to fix a minor leak feels like
- 3:18Speaker 2: a loss right now. So the owner delays it, subconsciously
- 3:22Speaker 2: tricking themselves into believing the problem is static.
- 3:25Speaker 1: Wow.
- 3:26Speaker 2: But problems in a physical building are never static. They
- 3:29Speaker 2: are strictly compounding.
- 3:30Speaker 1: You know, it reminds me of the concept of technical
- 3:33Speaker 1: debt in software engineering.
- 3:34Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good comparison.
- 3:36Speaker 1: Yeah, like when a software developer is rushing to meet
- 3:38Speaker 1: a deadline, they might write sloppy, inefficient code. It works
- 3:41Speaker 1: for now, but they've taken on technical debt. Right. If
- 3:44Speaker 1: they don't go back and fix it, like if they
- 3:46Speaker 1: don't pay down that debt, the entire software system eventually
- 3:49Speaker 1: becomes so fragile that a tiny update crashes the whole platform.
- 3:53Speaker 2: That is a perfect analogy. Deferred maintenance is literally the
- 3:57Speaker 2: physical equivalent of technical debt. You are taking out a
- 4:00Speaker 2: loan against the structural integrity of the building, and the
- 4:03Speaker 2: interest rate is exorbitant.
- 4:05Speaker 1: And it's like a car, right? Don't wait for the
- 4:07Speaker 1: engine to physically explode before you change the oil. You
- 4:09Speaker 1: do it on a schedule.
- 4:11Speaker 2: Exactly. You do the routine checks. And here is where
- 4:14Speaker 2: the data comes in. The notes insist on rigorous, systematic
- 4:17Speaker 2: tracking of every single repair, every inspection, and every dollar spent.
- 4:22Speaker 1: Which sounds incredibly tedious.
- 4:24Speaker 2: It does. But it forces the owner out of their
- 4:26Speaker 2: own subjective, biased memory and into objective reality.
- 4:31Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
- 4:32Speaker 2: If we connect this to the bigger picture, those maintenance
- 4:34Speaker 2: records are essentially acting as an objective diagnostic tool. They
- 4:38Speaker 2: disrupt the hyperbolic discounting we just talked about.
- 4:40Speaker 1: How so?
- 4:41Speaker 2: Well, When you are forced to log the fact that
- 4:44Speaker 2: you've sent a handyman to patch the same section of
- 4:46Speaker 2: drywall three times in 18 months, you can no longer
- 4:49Speaker 2: lie to yourself. The data forces you to see the
- 4:52Speaker 2: technical debt.
- 4:53Speaker 1: Right. It shifts you from being reactive to being analytical.
- 4:57Speaker 1: Instead of playing whack-a-mole with individual problems, you look at
- 5:00Speaker 1: the aggregate data. Yes. And you say, OK, the frequency
- 5:03Speaker 1: of these plumbing calls indicates a systemic failure. The ROI
- 5:06Speaker 1: of replacing the entire plumbing stack is now mathematically superior
- 5:10Speaker 1: to just patching it.
- 5:11Speaker 2: Exactly. And the notes point out that this is how
- 5:14Speaker 2: you actually prepare a realistic maintenance budget.
- 5:17Speaker 1: Right. It shouldn't be a guessing game.
- 5:19Speaker 2: Major expenses like a roof replacement or an exterior paint shop,
- 5:22Speaker 2: they should never be a surprise. If you are doing
- 5:25Speaker 2: the seasonal inspections the notes recommend, checking the HVAC, the electrical, doors, windows,
- 5:31Speaker 2: and you're logging that data, a new roof is just
- 5:34Speaker 2: a scheduled financial event, not a catastrophic emergency.
- 5:38Speaker 1: Okay, so if the data secures the unseen structural integrity,
- 5:41Speaker 1: we then have to move to the visible layer of
- 5:43Speaker 1: the property.
- 5:44Speaker 2: Right, the surface level.
- 5:45Speaker 1: The notes pivot to focus heavily on the appearance of
- 5:48Speaker 1: the property. Things like maintaining gardens, sweeping shared hallways, ensuring
- 5:53Speaker 1: parking areas are spotless, and fixing minor cosmetic damage before
- 5:56Speaker 1: showing a unit.
- 5:57Speaker 2: It's the transition from the invisible pipes to the visible paint.
- 6:01Speaker 2: And this is entirely about human perception and tenant psychology.
- 6:05Speaker 1: Now, wait, I want to push back on this for
- 6:06Speaker 1: a second. Let's assume our audience understands the value of
- 6:09Speaker 1: a structurally sound building. Does a billionaire real estate fund
- 6:13Speaker 1: manager or a seasoned investor really need to care about
- 6:16Speaker 1: whether the rhododendrons are trimmed?
- 6:19Speaker 2: They absolutely should. Yeah.
- 6:20Speaker 1: But are we just talking about being superficial here? Like
- 6:23Speaker 1: if the HVAC is brand new and the roof is steel,
- 6:26Speaker 1: does a dusty shared hallway actually depress the financial yield
- 6:30Speaker 1: of the asset? Does it really move the needle on
- 6:33Speaker 1: rental value?
- 6:34Speaker 2: It absolutely does. And what's fascinating here is the mechanism
- 6:37Speaker 2: of why it matters. It has to do with information asymmetry.
- 6:41Speaker 1: Okay, explain that.
- 6:43Speaker 2: When a prospective tenant comes to view a property, they
- 6:45Speaker 2: suffer from an extreme lack of information. They cannot see
- 6:49Speaker 2: the plumbing inside the walls. Right. They cannot inspect the
- 6:51Speaker 2: compressor on the HVAC unit. They have no idea if
- 6:54Speaker 2: the foundation was poured correctly.
- 6:56Speaker 1: Right. They are essentially flying blind on the most expensive
- 6:59Speaker 1: components of the building.
- 7:00Speaker 2: Exactly. So what does the human brain do when it
- 7:02Speaker 2: lacks concrete information? It relies on heuristics, mental shortcuts.
- 7:07Speaker 1: Okay.
- 7:08Speaker 2: The tenant looks for visible proxies to gauge invisible competence.
- 7:12Speaker 2: This is often called the halo effect in psychology. Oh,
- 7:14Speaker 2: I've heard of that. Yeah. If the prospective tenant walks
- 7:17Speaker 2: up to a building and sees that the parking lot
- 7:19Speaker 2: is immaculate, the entrance is well lit, and the hallway
- 7:23Speaker 2: smells clean, their brain subconsciously attributes those same high standards
- 7:27Speaker 2: to the things they cannot see.
- 7:29Speaker 1: Oh, wow. So they assume that a landlord who cares
- 7:31Speaker 1: about the light bulbs in the hallway definitely cares about
- 7:34Speaker 1: the boiler in the basement.
- 7:35Speaker 2: Precisely. The visible maintenance is a signaling mechanism. It signals
- 7:40Speaker 2: systemic competence and safety.
- 7:43Speaker 1: Yeah, that's powerful.
- 7:44Speaker 2: Conversely, if the tenant walks in and sees a cracked
- 7:46Speaker 2: window pane and weeds growing through the pavement, the immediate
- 7:50Speaker 2: subconscious thought is, if they ignore the things everyone can see,
- 7:54Speaker 2: what horrors are they hiding where I can't look?
- 7:57Speaker 1: That is a phenomenal way to frame it. It's not
- 8:00Speaker 1: about luxury or aesthetics. It's about signaling trust.
- 8:04Speaker 2: Exactly.
- 8:05Speaker 1: And that brings up another interesting behavioral point. If a
- 8:08Speaker 1: tenant moves into a place that is pristine, they are
- 8:10Speaker 1: statistically far more likely to keep it pristine, right?
- 8:13Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
- 8:14Speaker 1: It's basically the broken windows theory applied to leasing. If
- 8:18Speaker 1: the landlord sets a baseline of visual order, the tenant
- 8:21Speaker 1: conforms to that order. Yes.
- 8:23Speaker 2: The environment dictates the behavior. you are setting the psychological
- 8:27Speaker 2: baseline for the duration of that tenant's lease.
- 8:30Speaker 1: Which provides a seamless conceptual transition to the next major
- 8:33Speaker 1: theme in your notes.
- 8:34Speaker 2: Right, the people.
- 8:36Speaker 1: Yeah. We have secured the building with data, and we've
- 8:39Speaker 1: managed the tenant's perception with visual signaling, but an empty,
- 8:43Speaker 1: beautiful building is still just a liability. The entire financial
- 8:46Speaker 1: engine relies on the occupants.
- 8:49Speaker 2: The human infrastructure. The notes make it abundantly clear that
- 8:53Speaker 2: managing a physical asset is impossible. without effectively managing the
- 8:57Speaker 2: relationships with the people inside it.
- 9:00Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? Because when I read
- 9:02Speaker 1: this section of the notes, you know, detailing how owners
- 9:05Speaker 1: must clearly explain rules from day one, establish transparent payment details,
- 9:10Speaker 1: provide rapid responses to maintenance requests, it really reframes the
- 9:15Speaker 1: whole industry.
- 9:16Speaker 2: It does. It really does.
- 9:18Speaker 1: It stops sounding like traditional passive real estate investing and
- 9:22Speaker 1: starts sounding like an active high end customer service operation.
- 9:27Speaker 2: Because that is exactly what it is. And we need
- 9:30Speaker 2: to acknowledge the traditional dynamic here to understand why the
- 9:33Speaker 2: notes are so effective.
- 9:34Speaker 1: Right.
- 9:35Speaker 2: Historically, the landlord tenant relationship is highly adversarial. It is
- 9:40Speaker 2: built on mutual suspicion. Oh, yeah. Big time. The landlord
- 9:43Speaker 2: assumes the tenant is going to distort the property and
- 9:46Speaker 2: the tenant assumes the landlord is going to steal their
- 9:48Speaker 2: security deposit and ignore their phone calls.
- 9:51Speaker 1: It is a zero sum game in most people's minds.
- 9:53Speaker 2: Exactly. but the source material actively dismantles that adversarial baseline.
- 9:59Speaker 2: The notes explicitly advise owners to build trust through rapid
- 10:02Speaker 2: response times and to actively encourage tenants to report minor
- 10:06Speaker 2: issues early.
- 10:07Speaker 1: Like reporting leaks or heating problems before they get bad. Right.
- 10:11Speaker 2: There is a brilliant symbiotic mechanism at play here.
- 10:14Speaker 1: I see where you're going with this. If you establish trust,
- 10:18Speaker 1: like if you prove that calling in a repair doesn't
- 10:20Speaker 1: result in an argument or a rent hike, the tenant's
- 10:23Speaker 1: behavior changes.
- 10:24Speaker 2: They become your early warning system. The tenant is transformed
- 10:27Speaker 2: from an adversary into an unpaid, on-site risk mitigation officer.
- 10:33Speaker 1: That is incredible. Because, going back to our technical debt analogy,
- 10:37Speaker 1: the owner doesn't live in the unit. Right. The owner
- 10:39Speaker 1: doesn't know that the toilet is running constantly or that
- 10:42Speaker 1: there is a damp spot forming on the ceiling. The
- 10:45Speaker 1: only way the owner can stop that compounding technical debt
- 10:49Speaker 1: is if the tenant tells them.
- 10:50Speaker 2: Exactly.
- 10:52Speaker 1: But if the tenant hates the landlord or fears retaliation,
- 10:55Speaker 1: they will literally put a bucket under the leak and
- 10:57Speaker 1: push a couch over the damp spot.
- 10:59Speaker 2: And by the time the tenant moves out, a $ 50
- 11:01Speaker 2: fix has become a $ 5, 000 structural repair.
- 11:05Speaker 1: Wow.
- 11:06Speaker 2: By providing elite customer service, the landlord is essentially purchasing
- 11:10Speaker 2: extreme transparency from the tenant. The tenant feels comfortable reporting
- 11:14Speaker 2: the slow drip. The owner fixes it immediately. And the
- 11:17Speaker 2: asset is protected.
- 11:19Speaker 1: And we can't ignore the purely economic side of this
- 11:21Speaker 1: human element either. The notes highlight that positive experiences radically
- 11:25Speaker 1: reduce turnover. And in real estate, vacancy is the ultimate
- 11:29Speaker 1: silent killer of yield.
- 11:30Speaker 2: The frictional costs of a vacancy are just staggering.
- 11:33Speaker 1: Right. You have the direct loss of rental income for
- 11:37Speaker 1: a month or two. You have The capital expenditure of repainting, cleaning,
- 11:40Speaker 1: replacing carpets.
- 11:41Speaker 2: Yep, the prep work.
- 11:43Speaker 1: You have the marketing costs to list the unit, the
- 11:45Speaker 1: time spent running background checks, the legal fees for the
- 11:48Speaker 1: new lease. I mean, the financial return on just being
- 11:51Speaker 1: a decent, communicative human being to your current tenant is
- 11:56Speaker 1: astronomically high compared to the cost of finding a new one.
- 11:58Speaker 2: It is the ultimate asymmetrical bet. Sending a polite text
- 12:02Speaker 2: message and fixing a dishwasher quickly might.
- 12:04Speaker 1: Cost you $ 150, but....
- 12:06Speaker 2: It saves you $ 4, 000 in vacancy costs next year because
- 12:10Speaker 2: the tenant decides to renew their lease.
- 12:12Speaker 1: Okay, so we've established that we need to maintain structural integrity,
- 12:16Speaker 1: project visual competence, and treat the tenant as an early
- 12:19Speaker 1: warning partner. Here's where it gets really interesting, though. How
- 12:23Speaker 1: do you finance all of this? Because if you just
- 12:25Speaker 1: throw money at every possible upgrade to keep the building
- 12:27Speaker 1: pretty and the tenant happy, you destroy your profit margins.
- 12:31Speaker 2: This raises an important question. How do investors navigate the
- 12:34Speaker 2: spectrum between being a slumlord who fixes nothing and an
- 12:39Speaker 2: overimprover who falls into the money pit trap?
- 12:43Speaker 1: Well, the notes tackle this by emphasizing a highly strategic,
- 12:46Speaker 1: planned approach to improvements. It is about understanding the difference
- 12:50Speaker 1: between functional integrity and mere aesthetics.
- 12:54Speaker 2: Exactly.
- 12:55Speaker 1: You don't overhaul the cosmetic features if the underlying systems
- 12:58Speaker 1: are failing.
- 12:59Speaker 2: You have to prioritize the hierarchy of needs for the building.
- 13:03Speaker 2: A gleaming new granite countertop is utterly useless if the
- 13:06Speaker 2: cabinets underneath it are rotting.
- 13:08Speaker 1: Yeah, or if the flooring in the kitchen is peeling up. Right.
- 13:12Speaker 2: The notes advise auditing the property to fix the essentials first.
- 13:15Speaker 2: You know, worn flooring, damaged fixtures, poor lighting, before moving
- 13:20Speaker 2: up the ladder to decorative features.
- 13:22Speaker 1: It goes back to the signaling we discussed earlier. If
- 13:24Speaker 1: you install a luxury chandelier in a dining room, but
- 13:27Speaker 1: the front door doesn't lock properly, you send a highly
- 13:30Speaker 1: conflicting signal to the tenant.
- 13:32Speaker 2: You really do.
- 13:33Speaker 1: It says you care about vanity, but not about their
- 13:35Speaker 1: basic security or comfort.
- 13:37Speaker 2: Exactly. Every dollar of capital expenditure must be weighed against
- 13:40Speaker 2: its actual utility and its expected return in that specific
- 13:44Speaker 2: local market.
- 13:45Speaker 1: Right.
- 13:46Speaker 2: You do not put a $ 50, 000 chef's kitchen into a
- 13:48Speaker 2: starter home rental because the target demographic cannot absorb the
- 13:53Speaker 2: rent increase required to pay for it. You have to
- 13:55Speaker 2: match the improvement to the asset class.
- 13:58Speaker 1: But the notes do highlight one specific area of improvement
- 14:01Speaker 1: that transcends almost all asset classes, and that's energy efficiency.
- 14:05Speaker 1: And I found this to be the most elegant strategy
- 14:07Speaker 1: in the entire document.
- 14:09Speaker 2: Oh, it really is.
- 14:10Speaker 1: They recommend prioritizing LED lighting, efficient appliances, and suitable insulation.
- 14:16Speaker 2: It is elegant because it is a structural win-win mechanism.
- 14:19Speaker 1: Right. Think about the dual benefits. For the owner, installing
- 14:23Speaker 1: better insulation and efficient HVAC systems modernizes the asset. It
- 14:27Speaker 1: reduces the wear and tear on the electrical grids and
- 14:30Speaker 1: heating systems.
- 14:31Speaker 2: Which inherently extends the lifespan of the physical building.
- 14:34Speaker 1: Exactly. But for the tenant, it directly targets their operating expenses.
- 14:39Speaker 1: It lowers their monthly utility bills.
- 14:41Speaker 2: Which in turn increases their financial stability.
- 14:44Speaker 1: Exactly. A tenant who isn't struggling to pay a $ 400
- 14:47Speaker 1: heating bill in the winter is a tenant who can
- 14:50Speaker 1: easily pay their rent on time. By investing in the
- 14:53Speaker 1: energy efficiency of the building, the owner is indirectly subsidizing
- 14:56Speaker 1: the tenant's financial health, which secures the owner's cash flow.
- 15:00Speaker 1: It is a brilliant feedback loop.
- 15:01Speaker 2: It aligns the economic incentives of both parties perfectly. The
- 15:05Speaker 2: landlord gets a modernized, appreciated asset, and the tenant gets
- 15:09Speaker 2: a comfortable, affordable living environment.
- 15:12Speaker 1: So synthesizing everything we've pulled from your notes today, the
- 15:15Speaker 1: overarching theme here is a rejection of chaos.
- 15:18Speaker 2: Well said.
- 15:19Speaker 1: Property care isn't about standing by with a hammer waiting
- 15:22Speaker 1: for disaster to strike. It is about implementing a disciplined
- 15:25Speaker 1: system to override our own worst cognitive biases. It doesn't
- 15:29Speaker 1: require massive daily overhauls.
- 15:32Speaker 2: No, it's about replacing the panic of reaction with the
- 15:35Speaker 2: calm of preparation. It requires consistent, marginal actions.
- 15:41Speaker 1: Right.
- 15:41Speaker 2: Tracking the data objectively to avoid technical debt, using the
- 15:45Speaker 2: physical space to signal trust, treating the tenant as a
- 15:48Speaker 2: vital partner rather than an adversary, and deploying capital strategically
- 15:53Speaker 2: to align incentives.
- 15:54Speaker 1: For you listening, applying this framework means you are no
- 15:57Speaker 1: longer just reacting to a physical building. You are orchestrating
- 16:01Speaker 1: a system. You are buying yourself peace of mind and
- 16:04Speaker 1: protecting your investment. The ultimate luxury in investing isn't a
- 16:08Speaker 1: higher yield. It is the absence of 2 a.m. panic.
- 16:12Speaker 2: And you know, if we abstract these principles away from
- 16:14Speaker 2: real estate for a moment, there's a much deeper philosophy
- 16:18Speaker 2: at play here. Oh, interesting.
- 16:19Speaker 1: Where are you going with this?
- 16:21Speaker 2: Well, we've just spent this entire deep dive proving that
- 16:24Speaker 2: proactive maintenance, objective data tracking, addressing small issues before they compound,
- 16:30Speaker 2: and fostering mutually beneficial communication can completely transform the trajectory
- 16:35Speaker 2: of a physical building.
- 16:36Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's a night and day difference.
- 16:38Speaker 2: So it forces you to wonder how might applying this
- 16:41Speaker 2: exact same rigorous maintenance plan transform our own lives? Wow. Yeah.
- 16:47Speaker 2: What if we stopped ignoring the small compounding leaks in
- 16:49Speaker 2: our own personal health, in our careers or in our relationships?
- 16:54Speaker 2: What if we address the friction early before our own catastrophic,
- 16:57Speaker 2: costly repairs become inevitable?
- 17:00Speaker 1: That is an incredible thought to end on. Managing the
- 17:03Speaker 1: technical debt of our own lives. Thank you so much
- 17:05Speaker 1: for sharing these notes with us. They were far more
- 17:08Speaker 1: profound than they first appeared. And for everyone listening, we
- 17:11Speaker 1: will catch you on the next deep dive.