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Midlife Women Shaping Local Politics · The Uplifters

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SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm Arantza Savas,
1:22
and every week I get to talk to inspiring midlife women to
1:26
learn how they're doing
1:27
SPEAKER_03: big,
1:28
SPEAKER_03: brave things,
1:28
SPEAKER_03: not just in their own lives,
1:30
SPEAKER_03: but for their neighbors and broader communities.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: This week's a little different.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to talk to two women who ran against one another for mayor.
1:40
Before we get into that,
1:40
though,
1:41
let's talk about the state of women in politics.
1:44
SPEAKER_03: Right now, women make up 28% of Congress.
1:48
about a third of state legislatures and only 12 of our 50
1:53
governors are women.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: Research tells us that Americans cite gender discrimination,
1:58
a lack of party support and family responsibilities as the
2:02
major barriers to
2:03
SPEAKER_03: running for office.
2:05
Women are twice as likely to rate themselves as not qualified
2:10
to run for office,
2:11
SPEAKER_03: even when they have identical credentials.
2:14
And perhaps most telling women are far less likely than men to
2:18
ever be encouraged
2:19
SPEAKER_03: to run in the first place.
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SPEAKER_03: But running for office is just one way to shape your community.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: and maybe not even the most important one.
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SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about the women you'll meet today.
2:31
SPEAKER_03: Last November,
2:32
SPEAKER_03: in the small coastal town of Highlands,
2:34
SPEAKER_03: New Jersey,
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SPEAKER_03: with a population of just over 4,000 people,
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SPEAKER_03: two women stood in our town's firehouse waiting for election results.
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SPEAKER_03: Their name's Rebecca Wells.
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SPEAKER_03: She's a lifelong Highlands resident.
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SPEAKER_03: She comes from generations of volunteers.
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SPEAKER_03: She was the first woman to ever serve
2:51
SPEAKER_03: as the fire chief of the Highlands Fire Department.
2:54
She served five terms on town council and nearly two decades on
2:58
our housing
2:59
authority and currently serves as deputy chief and on the board
3:02
of education for
3:03
SPEAKER_03: the town.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: Carolyn Brujan is our current mayor.
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SPEAKER_03: She found Highlands in 2002, so almost a quarter of a century ago.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: while looking for a vacation home and never left.
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SPEAKER_03: She and her wife,
3:18
SPEAKER_03: Danica,
3:19
poured themselves into this town by streaming town hall
3:22
meetings after Hurricane
3:23
SPEAKER_03: Sandy so that displaced residents could still have a voice,
3:27
leading the effort to bring nonpartisan elections to Highlands
3:31
on the main street.
3:32
She has been elected three times as the mayor of Highlands and
3:37
won this current election.
3:39
In this photo of two women in a male-dominated environment
3:44
waiting for election
3:45
SPEAKER_03: results,
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SPEAKER_03: I saw so much bravery.
3:49
These were women in a male-dominated profession standing in a
3:53
male-dominated space,
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SPEAKER_03: bravely advocating for change.
4:00
They ran against each other and only a few dozen votes
4:03
separated the winner from the loser.
4:06
So roughly half the town voted for one and roughly half the
4:09
town voted for the other.
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In this moment when national politics feels overwhelming and
4:15
unchangeable,
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SPEAKER_03: this is a conversation about what's possible in our own backyards.
4:22
and about how midlife women are uniquely positioned to lead
4:26
these changes.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Becky Wells and Carolyn Brouillon, welcome to the Uplifters.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being here.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: Becky, I want to start with you.
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SPEAKER_03: You've spent your entire life in Highlands.
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SPEAKER_03: Generations of your family have shaped this town.
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SPEAKER_03: What does Highlands mean to you?
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SPEAKER_02: Highlands to me is really everything, right?
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It's where I chose to stay as I became an adult,
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as I started to raise my kids.
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SPEAKER_02: It's where I want to be.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: It's where I want my kids to be.
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SPEAKER_02: It's a wonderful town.
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SPEAKER_02: It's filled with wonderful people.
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SPEAKER_02: I've always loved that,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
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SPEAKER_02: we've had the mom and pop shops,
5:01
SPEAKER_02: the great restaurants,
5:02
SPEAKER_02: you know,
5:02
SPEAKER_02: not over commercialized,
5:04
SPEAKER_02: just like your small town feel.
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SPEAKER_02: Everybody kind of knows everybody.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: They watch out for your kids.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: I always laugh as my kids are now, my stepdaughter is 26.
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SPEAKER_02: My son is 13 and my daughter is 11.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: And I start letting them out a little bit.
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And Nancy,
5:20
our local florist will call and be like,
5:22
I just saw Parker go down the street.
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SPEAKER_02: He's okay.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: He crossed the street.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: It's really a wonderful way to live.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Beautiful.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: I've loved living here for the short time that I have.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: And Carolyn, you've been here for almost a quarter of a century now.
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SPEAKER_03: Not a recent upstart like me,
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who's only been visiting for about a decade and only living
5:43
here for about a year.
5:44
But what does Highlands mean to you as someone who moved here,
5:48
who chose this place as an adult?
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Quite honestly, a lot of what Becky said resonates with me.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: You know,
5:55
SPEAKER_00: being at the shop every day,
5:56
I love it that the school bus stop lets out right in front of
6:00
the shop and the kids
6:01
SPEAKER_00: come off and they stop and they wave.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a really warm sense of community.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: And even when people don't get along,
6:10
it almost doesn't matter because they still know this is what's
6:13
best for the town
6:14
SPEAKER_00: and we do it.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: It is a remarkable place.
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SPEAKER_03: And I've been so surprised by the experience of it,
6:21
SPEAKER_03: having lived in a giant city for the last 25 years.
6:27
It's my first time in small town life and I'm kind of hooked
6:29
for all of the reasons
6:30
SPEAKER_03: that you've both described.
6:31
And I feel so,
6:33
so welcomed,
6:34
absolutely fallen in love with the place and its people.
6:37
SPEAKER_03: Let's talk for a second just about from your perspective,
6:41
SPEAKER_03: what your vision for the future,
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SPEAKER_03: your hopes for the future are of this town.
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SPEAKER_03: And Becky, again, let's start with you.
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SPEAKER_02: My biggest hope is that we can keep moving forward,
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SPEAKER_02: yet we're able to keep our small town charm,
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SPEAKER_02: keep our long-term residents,
6:55
keep it where the taxes are affordable and we're not losing
6:58
droves of people that
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SPEAKER_02: are moving to Delaware or the Carolinas.
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SPEAKER_02: We have so many great families here that we don't want to lose them.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: We want to make sure that
7:06
that not only do they stay,
7:07
but their kids can stay and then their kids can stay.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Through campaigning and through my kids being in school,
7:13
so many wonderful new families have moved into the district and
7:17
to our community
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SPEAKER_02: and they're interested and they love it.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: And that's also,
7:21
SPEAKER_02: it's wonderful too,
7:22
SPEAKER_02: because I feel like we are meshing both the new and the old.
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SPEAKER_03: I want to talk more about the campaigning in just a second.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: I think you make a really good point.
7:30
We should probably all campaign for office at some point just
7:33
as an excuse to meet
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our neighbors or at least find some other excuse to get out
7:37
there and connect with
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SPEAKER_03: humans one-on-one.
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SPEAKER_03: Carolyn, what is your vision and hope for the future of this town?
7:45
SPEAKER_00: It's really,
7:45
SPEAKER_00: again,
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this is where Becky and I have a lot of the same desires and
7:51
want to keep moving
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SPEAKER_00: forward in a positive manner,
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SPEAKER_00: but also keeping and retaining all of our past.
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SPEAKER_00: I've been working with the clamors at the clam plant a lot,
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SPEAKER_00: and we really wanted to start celebrating them in a more public fashion.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean,
8:09
we just actually had a meeting with prospective buyers for
8:13
properties on Bay Avenue
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because we want to get rid of those empty lots because those
8:18
empty lots are what
8:19
SPEAKER_00: keep our taxes high.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of engagement.
8:23
There's a new program that the state is putting out that makes
8:27
financing a lot easier.
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SPEAKER_00: And it also has a bonus.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: It has a component that you would need to highlight some green energies.
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SPEAKER_00: It's called CPACE.
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SPEAKER_00: We were the fourth municipality in the state to get on board.
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So it's being able to grab onto these cutting edge programs
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that'll help not just
8:48
SPEAKER_00: economically,
8:49
SPEAKER_00: but then you get your feature,
8:50
SPEAKER_00: which is a new shop or affordable apartments.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: we're really doing well with our affordable housing.
8:58
I'm so struck again by how much your visions share that they
9:03
really are about,
9:04
SPEAKER_03: yes,
9:05
progress and moving forward while also really celebrating and
9:10
caring for what makes
9:12
SPEAKER_03: this town special and unique and the rich history here.
9:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think there's more of that in our country that we don't hear about.
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SPEAKER_03: What we hear about,
9:24
SPEAKER_03: because frankly,
9:25
fewer people are going to listen to this episode if we talk
9:29
about ways of working
9:30
SPEAKER_03: together than they would if we said,
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SPEAKER_03: hey,
9:32
SPEAKER_03: ladies,
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SPEAKER_03: let's duke it out,
9:34
SPEAKER_03: right?
9:34
SPEAKER_03: Because people like drama.
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SPEAKER_03: My husband works in television news.
9:39
SPEAKER_03: He has for 25 years.
9:40
SPEAKER_03: That is what sells his conflict.
9:43
And I feel like it's my mission to sort of manage my own
9:47
algorithm and the
9:48
SPEAKER_03: communities that I serve by saying like,
9:50
SPEAKER_03: okay,
9:51
SPEAKER_03: screw the algorithm.
9:53
How can we talk about unity and collaboration and what unites
9:57
us and find common
9:58
SPEAKER_03: ground to move further faster together?
10:00
SPEAKER_03: And that's why,
10:02
SPEAKER_03: again,
10:02
I was so moved by that photo of the two of you and by your
10:06
answers to these
10:06
SPEAKER_03: questions.
10:07
SPEAKER_03: You have so much in common in terms of the vision for the future.
10:12
SPEAKER_03: But before we talk about all of that,
10:14
SPEAKER_03: I do want to talk about you as two,
10:17
SPEAKER_03: is it okay to say midlife women?
10:20
I feel like I'm going to call myself middle-aged when I'm 75,
10:23
but I'm also doing it at 50.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:26
Two midlife women campaigning like in a tiny town where you're
10:33
asking for votes
10:34
SPEAKER_03: from your nearest neighbors,
10:35
SPEAKER_03: your friends,
10:35
SPEAKER_03: your community,
10:36
SPEAKER_03: the people in your backyard that you've never spoken to.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: And I just imagine that's a pretty heavy task.
10:44
SPEAKER_03: So Rebecca, I'm going to start with you again.
10:46
What was the experience of running for office like for you on a
10:52
personal level?
10:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, honestly, it wasn't my first rodeo with the campaigning.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: As Carolyn's aware, we sat on council many years ago together.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: This is probably the seventh time I've run for election.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: It does get a bit harder each time.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: Because it's harder and harder to throw yourself out there and,
11:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
11:11
SPEAKER_02: set everything up,
11:12
SPEAKER_02: especially every time I'd ran in the past,
11:14
SPEAKER_02: I didn't have,
11:15
SPEAKER_02: you know,
11:15
two other children that had hockey and dance and CCD and the
11:19
fire department needed
11:20
SPEAKER_02: this and this needed that.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it was kind of like just me and off I went.
11:25
But I will say most people know I lost my father in August and
11:29
he was a member of
11:29
SPEAKER_02: the fire department for 50 years.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: A treasured member of this town.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I got a little bit of a late start.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: But I, you know what?
11:37
SPEAKER_02: He said not to quit.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: So we didn't quit.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: And we moved forward.
11:42
And it ended up taking a time that probably would have been
11:44
very dark or depressing.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: And I had a lot of fun.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: Like we joked around the people that helped me with my campaign a lot.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: We said, well, you need to get something done.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Go to a group of over caffeinated, overstimulated moms.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Because that gets it done, you know?
11:59
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: And we had a great time.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Every day we were in contact.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Where are we walking?
12:04
SPEAKER_02: What time are we walking?
12:06
SPEAKER_02: I tend to exercise every morning at six.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: So I started doing little walking tours at six o'clock in the morning.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: And then I realized, oh my goodness, I'm always in the gym.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize how dark it was out here.
12:17
But some of us came with flashlights and we still walked and we
12:20
got to really connect with
12:23
SPEAKER_02: a lot of other residents and we got to try to make the best decisions,
12:27
SPEAKER_02: get the best message out there and be out there as much as we could.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: And we really went hard.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: I would probably starting in the September timeframe to till the end.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
12:38
One of my hopes from this episode is that people hear you both
12:41
talk about this and
12:42
SPEAKER_03: say,
12:43
SPEAKER_03: wait,
12:44
SPEAKER_03: maybe I could engage in
12:47
SPEAKER_03: being part of the change in my community.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: And frankly, the vast majority of politicians in this country are men.
12:56
SPEAKER_03: And that is how it has been since the founding fathers.
13:00
And the only way that will change is if women feel safe
13:04
stepping into office.
13:05
And we've heard from women who have been first in these
13:09
male-dominated fields over
13:11
SPEAKER_03: and over in this show.
13:13
SPEAKER_03: And one of the things we've heard is
13:15
SPEAKER_03: how emotionally, physically, relationally taxing it is.
13:21
SPEAKER_03: The systems aren't built for us.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: And yet I think hearing women say, I did it, I did it my way.
13:27
SPEAKER_03: Was it the easiest thing I ever did?
13:28
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not, but I found a way to do it because it was worth it to me.
13:33
If we were to end this episode right now and leave folks with
13:36
that message,
13:37
SPEAKER_03: we'd have done something really important.
13:39
SPEAKER_03: Carolyn, you've run for election as mayor multiple times.
13:45
SPEAKER_03: So for you going in to this election,
13:50
SPEAKER_03: knowing that you were running against another person,
13:53
what did that mean for you in terms of how you thought about
13:58
how to present
13:59
SPEAKER_03: yourself to your community?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: It's really, it's all about talking to people.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: It's about building coalitions,
14:06
asking people to come on to committees about something that
14:10
they're passionate
14:11
SPEAKER_00: about.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: I've
14:12
SPEAKER_00: gotten a couple of newer residents to get onto some committees,
14:16
which is good because then they get to meet their neighbors and
14:19
then maybe go on to
14:20
SPEAKER_00: do something else.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Like Becky said,
14:22
there's a lot of really our biggest booming demographic right
14:26
now are young
14:27
SPEAKER_00: marrieds with little ones.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: You want to see the next generation coming in and they're all
14:34
SPEAKER_00: ecstatic to have moved here.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: They love the vibe of the town.
14:39
And as I've used that phrase a bit,
14:43
it's like they've got a little bit of salt in them too.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: So they fit in perfectly into we've got that little bit of grit,
14:49
SPEAKER_00: but we also are very compassionate at the same time.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And that empathy.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: What were you guys feeling the night of the election?
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Here we go again.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: It's always nerves,
15:01
SPEAKER_02: but I mean,
15:02
SPEAKER_02: however it's going to shake out is how it's going to shake out,
15:05
SPEAKER_02: right?
15:05
SPEAKER_02: So,
15:05
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:07
SPEAKER_02: all you can do is say it was a good experience and maybe run again,
15:11
SPEAKER_02: maybe see where the chips land and,
15:12
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:13
keep doing good positive things throughout the community all
15:17
the way through.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: trying to really,
15:18
SPEAKER_02: I think to go back to the campaign,
15:21
one of the things that was really important to me was that the
15:25
kids really enjoyed
15:26
SPEAKER_02: it.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Like I went into the elementary school,
15:28
SPEAKER_02: I talked about the campaign,
15:30
SPEAKER_02: I brought them with me knocking on door to door,
15:33
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:33
SPEAKER_02: 10,
15:34
SPEAKER_02: 11,
15:39
12 year old kids that were so excited to say,
15:37
SPEAKER_02: hey,
15:37
SPEAKER_02: can you vote for Lucy's mom?
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Can you vote for Parker's mom?
15:42
SPEAKER_02: You want that to stick with them.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: So they say, hey, maybe I'll do this.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: I love that you brought your kids with you.
15:47
My daughter last night said,
15:49
I just saw a picture from years ago of us at the Women's March.
15:53
And I really appreciate you always bringing me to political
15:57
rallies and to marches.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: She said, because I never knew a world where that's not.
16:02
SPEAKER_03: what we do if we want to create change, that we are people who show up.
16:06
And so it was really sweet to hear my 17-year-old high school
16:11
senior reflect that
16:13
SPEAKER_03: back yesterday and just sort of remind myself that,
16:16
SPEAKER_03: oh yeah,
16:17
we didn't get here with these two little activists in the house
16:21
by accident.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: We made them a safe and engaged part of the process.
16:26
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's happened to so many women though, right?
16:29
SPEAKER_03: We don't see enough women running for office.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: And so we don't feel that sense of belonging.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: And it feels very, not only alienating, but also scary.
16:39
We hear all the worst case scenarios,
16:41
Ken,
16:41
because that's what makes news.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: And what I'd like for us to hear more and more is,
16:45
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
16:45
SPEAKER_03: there are winners and losers,
16:47
SPEAKER_03: and we all win if more women run for office.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
16:51
I think this was the first time that we had three women and two
16:55
men on council.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Look at our governor.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, more and more women are running.
17:00
SPEAKER_03: I want to go back to that photo a little bit.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: Here you are in a firehouse in this male-dominated space,
17:07
SPEAKER_03: one where Becky had been a groundbreaker,
17:10
SPEAKER_03: one in which the two of you are waiting for these results together.
17:15
Now the results came in and 51.35% of the vote,
17:18
1,104 votes went to Carolyn.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: 48.28%, 1,038 votes went to Becky.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: We are talking just a handful of folks making the difference here.
17:35
So we've got half of the town who's saying,
17:38
we want to stick with the mayor we currently have.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: We've got half the town saying,
17:43
SPEAKER_03: we think we might want to change and we're voting for this person.
17:46
What did that say to the two of you about what we need
17:51
collectively as a town in
17:53
SPEAKER_03: order to come together and move forward?
17:57
SPEAKER_03: And Carolyn, this time I'll start with you.
18:00
thousand people didn't vote yeah which is really just wild to
18:07
me because i'll tell
18:08
SPEAKER_00: you a really quick little story
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Back when Jimmy Carter won over Gerald Ford,
18:14
SPEAKER_00: my sister and I would walk to school and I was seven or eight and we were
18:18
SPEAKER_00: discussing Kissinger.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: We've always been political.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: So it just threw me to see that so many people did not vote.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And it just blew me away.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: I think it was or how many people voted for the governor.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: but didn't vote for the mayor.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what?
18:38
SPEAKER_02: That's what surprised me too.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you already went to the box, but you didn't go all the way down.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: They abstained.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: I think there was like a 250 difference.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: They just voted for governor and left.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Like they didn't touch anybody else.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: I started breaking down the numbers once the final, final result ran.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: I was just like, something's not right here.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
19:03
and arguably that's where we have the most potential to
19:07
influence change is at the
19:08
SPEAKER_03: very hyper-local level.
19:11
One of the most important stories I think we've ever run on
19:14
this show was an
19:15
SPEAKER_03: interview with Helen Artiega-Landeverde.
19:17
And she started a local health center because people in her
19:23
community and her literal advocacy
19:25
SPEAKER_03: actual teeny tiny segment of a borough of Manhattan,
19:30
SPEAKER_03: the borough of Elmhurst,
19:31
SPEAKER_03: Queens,
19:32
SPEAKER_03: weren't getting healthcare that met them on their terms.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: And after creating a really revolutionary system for meeting there,
19:42
SPEAKER_03: an incredibly diverse population where they were,
19:44
SPEAKER_03: She was amazing dramatic story.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: So I'll make it the shortest version.
19:48
SPEAKER_03: She was named to the first Latina CEO of NYC Health and Hospitals,
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Elmhurst,
19:53
and then has just recently been named the head of health and
19:57
human services for the
19:59
SPEAKER_03: city of New York City of Amodani.
20:01
And so what I see in that story over and over again is an
20:05
evolution of a message
20:06
SPEAKER_03: her father taught her very early on,
20:08
SPEAKER_03: which is,
20:08
SPEAKER_03: if you want to make a difference,
20:10
SPEAKER_03: focus on your own backyard.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: It's just that as her backyard grew, that the scale of influence grew.
20:17
But ultimately,
20:19
it started with her closest neighbors and now has expanded to 8
20:23
million people.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: And I think when we step back and we say like,
20:26
SPEAKER_03: well,
20:27
SPEAKER_03: how do I make a difference in a world that feels so totally,
20:30
SPEAKER_03: utterly,
20:31
SPEAKER_03: horrifically broken?
20:33
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the answer is in our own backyards,
20:35
SPEAKER_03: which is what the two of you are demonstrating so powerfully.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: And whether it's at the council level,
20:40
SPEAKER_03: at the fire department,
20:41
SPEAKER_03: as the mayor,
20:42
those are all just ways of making a difference and arguably
20:46
none of them more
20:47
SPEAKER_03: important or more influential than the other.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Becky,
20:50
what does it say to you that people were abstaining and that
20:55
there was such a
20:56
SPEAKER_03: divided boat?
20:58
I think in all honesty,
20:59
one of the two reasons that I ran was people just wanted a
21:02
choice.
21:02
People were not happy that people have been running uncontested
21:06
for years.
21:06
When I always ran,
21:07
it was always more of there was always way more candidates than
21:10
spots.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: So it was always a fight.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: So we've had a lot of uncontested and people just said,
21:16
SPEAKER_02: like,
21:16
SPEAKER_02: I think it's time people need a choice.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: You have to agree people do need a choice.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's what makes America what it is, having a choice.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that made me happy to give people a choice.
21:27
And you can't switch the past,
21:29
you know,
21:29
you can just keep moving forward.
21:31
But I think people just really wanted that ability to say,
21:34
hey,
21:35
what else is out there?
21:37
SPEAKER_03: What I'm taking from that,
21:38
SPEAKER_03: and correct me if you see this differently,
21:40
SPEAKER_03: that part of what you're both observing is disengagement.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: And from a psychological perspective,
21:49
SPEAKER_03: and of course,
21:50
SPEAKER_03: my expertise is in motivation and behavior change,
21:53
we understand that people tend towards disengagement when they
21:56
feel powerless to
21:58
SPEAKER_03: create change.
22:00
And so when I listen to both of you talk about,
22:03
okay,
22:03
people aren't voting.
22:05
SPEAKER_03: People aren't stepping up to participate in elections.
22:08
I think in large part it is because we feel like,
22:11
man,
22:11
things are so broken.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: How can little old me be a part of creating change?
22:17
SPEAKER_03: And what you're both saying is,
22:19
SPEAKER_03: well,
22:20
SPEAKER_03: first of all,
22:20
SPEAKER_03: by voting,
22:21
SPEAKER_03: by at least using the power of your vote.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Second of all,
22:26
by stepping up and engaging and understanding what the issues
22:30
are so that you feel
22:31
SPEAKER_03: more confident if that's what's getting in your way.
22:34
And third of all,
22:35
if you see solutions,
22:37
don't just be a naysayer and see things are broken.
22:39
SPEAKER_03: Say, here's some ideas on how we might make them better.
22:43
Even if that's just,
22:44
here's who we could talk to to learn new ways to make them
22:46
better.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: You don't necessarily have to have all the answers,
22:50
SPEAKER_03: which is I think kind of what we're told in society is like,
22:54
SPEAKER_03: oh,
22:54
SPEAKER_03: well,
22:54
SPEAKER_03: you shouldn't do anything unless you have all the answers.
22:57
SPEAKER_03: But I think what midlife women learn through lived experience is that no,
23:03
SPEAKER_03: no,
23:03
SPEAKER_03: no,
23:03
SPEAKER_03: no,
23:03
SPEAKER_03: nobody knows all the answers.
23:05
You just have to be the one asking questions and trying to find
23:08
solutions and
23:09
SPEAKER_03: enlist other people to help figure it out.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Right.
23:13
How do we use this as an indication of ways that we might best
23:19
serve the whole and
23:21
SPEAKER_03: re-engage more of the town in the future?
23:27
I honestly feel that the toxicity of social media is helping to
23:33
break us and break
23:36
SPEAKER_00: how we interact with each other,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: where if you see somebody on the street and you strike up a conversation,
23:41
SPEAKER_00: that's one thing.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: as I call them,
23:43
SPEAKER_00: the keyboard warriors that are,
23:45
SPEAKER_00: will only engage online and they're just,
23:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
23:48
SPEAKER_00: throwing darts at you or flames or at each other.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: It's disheartening.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: But I think that social media is part of the problem.
23:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
23:59
SPEAKER_03: As an outsider,
24:00
it made me not want to move to this town when I first looked at
24:03
the social media
24:04
SPEAKER_03: because I was like,
24:04
SPEAKER_03: who are all these mean-spirited people?
24:07
And then of course,
24:08
it has no relationship to the people you actually meet in this
24:12
town.
24:13
SPEAKER_03: And these are the warmest, most generous, welcoming, kind people.
24:17
SPEAKER_03: Becky, what's coming up for you?
24:20
I would like to start some sort of little group,
24:22
whether we're meeting monthly,
24:24
just to talk.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: And you're off social media.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: You're meeting your neighbors.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll probably throw it out there on social media.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: It's not political.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: It's not a Democratic club.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: It's not a Republican club.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: It's just a Highlands club.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Just come and meet your neighbors and wherever.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: If they're doing the concerts this summer in Veterans Park,
24:43
SPEAKER_02: let's try to meet there and sit there together.
24:45
If we're just a little bit more of awareness of where we are
24:48
and keeping the
24:49
SPEAKER_02: momentum going and talking about the issues that
24:52
SPEAKER_02: people feel strongly about and encourage you.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Maybe not everybody has to go to the council meeting,
24:57
but maybe two of us go and check and see what's happening there
25:01
and then bring it
25:01
SPEAKER_02: back and talk about some of the issues that whether you like them or not,
25:05
SPEAKER_02: or whether you think what needs to happen.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: And I think that would really be a good way.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
25:10
I know Carolyn and I have discussed this sometimes because I go
25:13
either way with the
25:14
nonpartisan thing because I felt like we were able to foster
25:17
more candidates under
25:19
SPEAKER_02: those
25:20
SPEAKER_02: They always had a group, right?
25:22
You were interviewing and there was people coming up the line
25:25
that then wanted to
25:26
SPEAKER_02: run next and then wanted to run next.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: So they're not becoming a true team.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: And not that you need to be a D or an R to be a team.
25:33
But I think we just need a group that's going to say,
25:35
hey,
25:36
we want to lead next.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: This guy's interested.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: What needs to happen?
25:40
SPEAKER_02: What should he attend?
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Where should he go?
25:42
SPEAKER_02: That kind of stuff,
25:43
SPEAKER_02: I think,
25:44
because that makes it very instrumental as you're learning your
25:47
way through the
25:49
SPEAKER_02: process.
25:50
Instead of saying at the 11th hour,
25:52
it's August 21st and my paperwork has to be there at four.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: Let me throw it in.
25:56
So you're kind of fostering,
25:58
mentoring your next generation of town leaders.
26:03
SPEAKER_03: I think it's such an interesting point about it.
26:06
SPEAKER_03: the nonpartisan elections,
26:08
my instinct is that probably part of the Lorovera turnout and
26:13
the choice not to
26:15
vote for a mayor was because it required them to have actually
26:18
done some individual
26:20
SPEAKER_03: investigation and to not just say,
26:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm for this sports team or that sports team,
26:26
SPEAKER_03: because that's really so much of what like
26:28
The tribalism underneath our Democrat and Republican labels
26:32
have become in a really
26:34
SPEAKER_03: unhelpful way right now.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: And so people probably were like, I don't know which one's on my team.
26:40
If I don't know those shortcuts where somebody else has already
26:44
vetted them for me,
26:45
I don't feel the confidence to know that I've vetted them and
26:47
figured it out.
26:49
And on the other hand,
26:50
certainly labeling people would have made that decision easier.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, interesting point, Becky.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was a lot of pointed questions on the campaign.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: What side are you on?
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Where do you land?
27:00
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, look, it's not about that.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you where I land, but it's about Highlands.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: And many were very happy...
27:09
SPEAKER_02: I went up to one house and they were kind of like, we're not interested.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay.
27:14
And I walked away and they're like,
27:15
wait a minute,
27:16
you're that girl running for mayor.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, oh, come in.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: And then we talked for a while and they're like,
27:22
SPEAKER_02: still glad that we thought it was higher office.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: We thought it was somebody for somebody else's campaign.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: you know, but now you're here and, you know, happy to have you.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: So it goes either way.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: You know,
27:33
SPEAKER_02: it's you just when you get that pointed question,
27:36
SPEAKER_02: unfortunately,
27:37
SPEAKER_02: how national politics are going,
27:38
SPEAKER_02: you don't know which way to answer anymore.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, most of us don't agree with any party wholeheartedly.
27:45
SPEAKER_03: We probably all see issues with both parties that are significant.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: But this idea of
27:51
SPEAKER_03: rallying in support of a town and in a community,
27:53
that probably appeals to most of us to care for the people in
27:57
our own backyard.
27:58
And so my biggest takeaway from this conversation so far is get
28:03
in touch with your
28:04
SPEAKER_03: community,
28:05
actively engage in shaping the future of it and look for ways
28:09
to connect and have
28:10
SPEAKER_03: face time with the people who are truly your neighbors.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: And you'd be amazed.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: They want you to come in.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: They want to talk to you.
28:19
They want to talk about everything from baseball to what's
28:23
going on in the world.
28:25
And it's like they would pontificate about national or
28:29
statewide fill in the blank.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: You're like, let's just talk about Highlands.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Because you just don't want to get into those conversations.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Because they are so much more
28:41
SPEAKER_03: separate from human beings.
28:45
And there's a longitudinal study of trust that has been run for
28:49
the last 50 years
28:51
SPEAKER_03: continuously by Edelman.
28:53
SPEAKER_03: And we've seen a progressive decline in trust over the last 15 years.
28:59
And every year we thought it's tanked and it's gotten as low as
29:03
trust can possibly go.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: And yet continuously it gets lower and lower.
29:09
And what Edelman reports on in one frame or another year after
29:13
year is that our
29:15
SPEAKER_03: distrust is only challenged by proximity.
29:19
So we are more likely to create trust if we have face-to-face
29:22
time with another
29:23
SPEAKER_03: human being and we appreciate that we share values and goals.
29:28
SPEAKER_03: So as we start to close out,
29:30
I'd just like to hear your hopes for how we as a community come
29:36
together to work
29:39
toward that common goal that you share and what that might mean
29:43
for what's possible
29:45
SPEAKER_03: for our culture at large.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: I think you just, you have to show up.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: You have to be there.
29:51
If there's no dialogue,
29:52
then you don't know if you're doing something right or wrong.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: You just have to never be afraid to talk to people.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
30:00
So we have to invite others and be brave enough to say what's
30:03
troubling us in order
30:05
SPEAKER_03: to be a part of that.
30:06
And just sitting in our own homes complaining is not going to
30:08
change anything.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
30:10
SPEAKER_03: All said.
30:11
SPEAKER_03: Becky.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: And I'm similar to Carolyn.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: Be present.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: I get it.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: People look at me and they go, oh my goodness, look at your resume.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: Do you like ever sleep?
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Do you like...
30:20
SPEAKER_02: And I might be the exception to the rule.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: Not everybody wants to be Miss Lady Fire Chief,
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Miss Board of Ed,
30:26
SPEAKER_02: Miss This,
30:26
SPEAKER_02: Run for Mayor two weeks after my dad dies.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: Not everybody wants to do this.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
30:30
SPEAKER_02: If you can give a night a week or two nights a month,
30:34
SPEAKER_02: if you can come out and join the fire department,
30:37
SPEAKER_02: the first aid,
30:38
SPEAKER_02: the business partnership,
30:40
SPEAKER_02: anything,
30:41
SPEAKER_02: you get to learn your neighbors,
30:43
SPEAKER_02: have input and really shape your community.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's the most important part.
30:48
When I first got on council in 2001,
30:50
it was a drastically different community.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: And I do know that here I am in 2026 going, my 15 years there,
30:58
SPEAKER_02: did help change this community in a positive light.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like everyone should want a little bit of that feel, right?
31:05
There are people,
31:06
of course,
31:06
who just want to pay their taxes and live harmoniously.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: That's perfectly fine too.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: But there's a lot of people that really,
31:12
SPEAKER_02: as I found through walking every day,
31:15
SPEAKER_02: have that interest,
31:17
SPEAKER_02: want to help,
31:18
SPEAKER_02: and they're not sure how to start helping.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: What you're saying is...
31:22
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to figure it all out.
31:23
You just have to get in there and offer some tiny amount of
31:28
service and connection.
31:30
And whether that is being a challenger and asking questions of
31:35
the people who can
31:35
SPEAKER_03: influence them or
31:37
whether it's volunteering it is engagement and so I think to
31:41
every person listening
31:42
to this who is not happy with something happening in this
31:45
country the answer is not
31:47
to go and type it into a computer screen and complain about it
31:51
it's not to lose
31:53
sleep all night alone it's to actually get out into your
31:57
community and talk to the
31:58
people who have the potential to make a difference it's to
32:01
become the people who
32:02
SPEAKER_03: can make a difference
32:04
SPEAKER_03: And you two are such extraordinary role models for that.
32:09
And that photo,
32:10
again,
32:10
the reason it moved me is because I am a woman in the world.
32:13
I am the mother of two young daughters and we are leaving them
32:16
a pretty screwed up world.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's not going to get better on its own.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: It's going to get better because people who are angry,
32:23
SPEAKER_03: people who are frustrated,
32:24
SPEAKER_03: people who are disappointed,
32:25
SPEAKER_03: people who see a better way,
32:27
SPEAKER_03: say something and do something.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: And like the two of you,
32:30
SPEAKER_03: risk the discomfort of not knowing,
32:34
SPEAKER_03: the discomfort of being challenged or questioned.
32:38
SPEAKER_03: and try anyway.
32:39
SPEAKER_03: So I truly can't thank both of you enough for your courage,
32:44
SPEAKER_03: for your willingness,
32:45
SPEAKER_03: and for being such an extraordinary role model for my daughters,
32:48
SPEAKER_03: for me,
32:49
SPEAKER_03: and for everyone else in our community.
32:52
So thank you for taking time to talk about this today with all
32:56
you both have going on.
32:58
And thank you for all you've done for Highlands and continue to
33:01
do to make it such
33:02
SPEAKER_03: a wonderful place to live.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for having us.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
33:06
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
33:08
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
33:15
please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join
33:19
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33:21
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33:24
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SPEAKER_03: one of these beautiful stories.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Big love.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Painted water, sunshine, with rosemary and tun.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Dwelling, not perplexing, though you find it vexing.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Toss a star and hover.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: Be your own best lover.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Relish in a new prime.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Land a tree in springtime.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Dance with idle hindsight.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Bring the sun to twilight.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: I cried.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Right?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: In the pre-chorus, right?
34:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like... Mommy, stop crying.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Mommy, stop crying.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: You're disturbing the peace.