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Jeff Burton Goes Deep On NASCAR & Life · Kenny Wallace Media

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  Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought
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  to you by Jags, the leader in high performance aftermarket car
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  parts. Remember to go to jags.com for
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  everything you need to fix your vehicles up.
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  Well, my next guest is somebody that I started racing with in
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  NASCAR. He got the best of me because he
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  is better than me. He went further than me, but I
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  love him to death because I think about him all the time.
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  The great Jeff Burton. Jeff, how are you doing my
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  friend? I'm good.
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  Hearn, How are you? Everything good?
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  Yeah, my my hair is getting a little long.
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  I need to get a haircut. My hair's.
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  Hey man, you proud of the hairs? You you're right.
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  You got to be proud of those hairs.
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  Well, you have a nice surrounding there, a nice
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  background. Where are you talking to us from
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  today? Yes, I got.
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  You know, when, when this room was, when when Paige and
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  Harrison were in this house, this was kind of their room.
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  This is where all their crap was.
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  In other words, you know how kids are, right?
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  They got, especially my kids, for some reason.
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  They have way more, too much crap.
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  So this was their playroom. And when they got out of the
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  house, I turned it into my room. And so it's I've got an office
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  and now I have an office and it's where I do these kind of
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  things. And I and it's also where, you
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  know, Kim and I need some separation from time to time.
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  I can come up here and I got a big screen television.
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  I can watch races, do whatever, sleep, take a nap, you know,
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  kind of get away. So you're telling me this is
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  your man cave? This is my, this is.
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  It's kind of a shame. This is man cave.
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  This is not a keg or anything in here.
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  It's kind of a little too formal.
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  But yeah, this is my man. Cave.
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  So I guess she has her horses and you, you have your deal.
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  People say to me all the time, how do you and your wife another
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  Kim, my Kim? They asked how we get along and
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  said, well that's simple. I go up to the race shop, she
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  goes downstairs and she has crafts and at night we meet in
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  bed. Now every once in a while I
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  drive along some of the back roads there in North Carolina.
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  I will see your wife professionally messing with
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  those horses is that's a big deal.
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  Huh. Yeah it is a big deal.
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  She, we we, you know we live right around the corner from
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  where I used to live and and we years ago we found this piece of
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  property. It was a blessing and it's
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  amazing that it was here and we found it and so and then the
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  second blessing was the property next to us had a the gentleman
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  that owned it had a prize bull and he kept his, he built a barn
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  for his bull and so we rented it for a while with Kim's horses.
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  And then Kim decided she wanted to try to turn it into a make a
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  business out of it. So we ended up acquiring that
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  piece of property which is right next door to this one where we
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  live. And so I got the house in the
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  middle and on that side of his is the barn and the the paddocks
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  and the riding ring and all that stuff.
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  And on that side of it is my shop.
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  So we go out of the garage, we go out of the driveway.
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  She hangs a left, I hang a right and we go to our perspective
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  areas right and then we meet here at night and and she spent
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  they were it's crazy. You think racing people are nuts
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  a questioning people are nuts. I mean because it is the work is
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  unbelievable. It never stops.
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  It's 24/7. You don't just walk out of the
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  door and turn the lights off because horse is sick.
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  You got a horse that's having a problem.
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  I mean, they're up there all hours of the night in some cases
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  is wild how much work they do, but they love it and they're
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  they're trying to make a business out of it.
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  They're doing pretty, they're not quite there yet, but they're
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  working. I mean, the hours they work is
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  crazy and it's it's fun to see them have a passion for
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  something. Well, we're we're definitely
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  going to get to you and I think we're going to have a wonderful
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  conversation. But you mentioned that that room
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  you're in used to be Paige and Harrison.
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  Now this page writing, is she still riding?
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  And of course, Harrisons, a NASCAR cup driver.
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  Yeah so the all the horse stuff started with with my wife rode a
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  little bit when she was young but not much.
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  But my all the horse stuff started with my daughter and
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  then my my wife followed it. So my daughter works up there.
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  She's she's learning how she's very good with the animals and
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  very good and she's learning how to to manage the, you know, the
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  the people and and how to do that.
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  Ultimately, she'll run it all. She's really close to doing it
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  now. It's an amazing talent with
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  with, with the animals. I tell everybody my wife with my
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  daughter went to college, sent my daughter to private school
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  for 12 years and then a private college for four years.
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  And she works in a barn, you know, and you know, she's like,
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  dad, you know, I'm not really happy working in an office.
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  I really would like to. And I'm like, look, you're
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  talking to a guy that drove a race cars for a living and and
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  and and melted metal together for a living like you.
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  You if that's what you want to do and that makes you happy, do
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  it. I mean, because life's too short
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  to be miserable. And so she absolutely she loves
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  it. She's able to apply the business
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  stuff that she learned in in school up there, but but it's no
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  different than racing, Kenny. And you know as well as I do,
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  the people that will get up in the morning don't have to look
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  at the clock, don't look at the clock when it's night, you know
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  when to come home. It's just a passion.
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  That's what it takes to be successful with that it it's
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  it's so much like racing, it's crazy.
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  Do you find in some strange way that it has it given you
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  something to do your wife's side of life or I mean, it's like,
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  OK, honey, I'm all in with you. Or do you find yourself running
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  off to Harrison or NBC? Sounds to me like you've kind of
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  taken a liking to the horses. Or not.
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  Well that's their thing. I mean, look, I afford it
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  because I you know, because you know if look if if if I don't
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  care what if they want to do it and they put effort into it the
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  way they put effort into it. I don't care what it is.
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  I support it and and you know you know him kill him forever
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  She she is a you know she is a worker she is you know I think
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  people you know people don't recognize you know they think
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  that they see her on pit box on Sunday and they think she's into
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  glamour and fashion she's into cowboy boots and and I mean
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  she's a worker she just works and it's and and you know my
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  daughter's the same way so they're blue collar kind of
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  people and and and they just work they like to work and and
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  they but that's their thing. I don't get into the horses I
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  don't get into it. I will not sit on something that
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  weighs 1200 lbs and has a brain that big.
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  Right. Well, my Mama would say dynamite
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  comes in small packages, and I think Kim is dynamite.
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  You, you and I. You and I race.
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  Yeah, That was kind of funny, right?
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  Well, you and I raced together, and in my early days, I would
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  see Kim on the pit box, maybe under the caution flag.
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  I'd look in there and I'd see her cheering you on.
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  So I really admire you and your wife and your family because I
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  feel like, you know, my wife, Kim, and, you know, we kind of
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  mirrored each other, you know, where our wives were really
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  getting us started. Hell, we.
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  I mean, you and I back in the Bush Grand National days, We
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  were just starting out. Well, all right, And enough of
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  them. It's about you right now, my
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  friend. Nicknames are awesome because
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  you have the Intimidator Earnhardt.
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  Of course they nicknamed Rusty Rubberhead because he he he
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  wrecked and kept on going. But nicknames are awesome.
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  I'm the Herminator and you are the mayor, but I think your
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  nickname is one of the most respectful nicknames in all of
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  sports. The mayor.
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  When do you remember the sport giving you that nickname?
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  When do you remember the first time you came up for?
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  Aaron went What the hell? Tell me about.
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  I remember it like it was yesterday.
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  Clint Boyer did that to me. I asked, Yeah, he he's, man,
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  he's messed up a lot of stuff for me.
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  He hangovers few long few long days after hanging out with him
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  we we had a, we did a, we were at I think we're at California
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  Speedway and it was my whatever rate.
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  I don't remember the number. It was X amount of races NASCAR
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  races I had won and a run and there was you know a little
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  ceremony or something for me and and and Clint was there.
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  He's my team mate at the time and and he he popped that on me
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  and and in front of the media you know and he and he and it
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  stuck like you know he threw it against the wall and it hadn't
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  come down since and that's where it started.
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  You know, he he he gave that to me.
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  Well, I agree with it because I was always very impressed.
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  You're you're very analytical and when the media would come to
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  you, you had all the right answers.
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  I mean I I felt like you were 30 going on 60.
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  You had a good business sense. With that being said, I remember
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  a great quote by Jack Roush and you drove for Jack forever and I
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  I kind of think that he was bragging on you.
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  I remember Jack saying Jeff wants my job.
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  I'm just not ready to give it up yet.
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  You remember that, I can tell. So I don't know what that was
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  all about was was he and and I took it as you're smart and you
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  can run the team right now. Do you remember that time?
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  I I, I do One of the one of the fondest memories I look.
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  The thing I loved about Jack Roush is he was a hard he's a
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  hard man and and he he wasn't brought up easily he got
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  everything he earned he earned everything that he has rather
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  and and you know he it's amazing what he built It is absolutely
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  amazing what he started with and what he built at Roush
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  Industries and Roush Racing. It's it's it's it's an American
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  success story and and the thing that I always respected by Jack
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  so much is that when he hired me he he said he said look I'm I'm
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  talking to Buddy Parrot about being a crew chief like how you
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  feel about that. I'm like yeah you're damn right
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  because at the very least we're going to have a great time.
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  I mean the very least with Buddy we're going to we're going to
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  have fun racing And so when he when we started that team in 96
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  he made it ours. He made it so that he the only
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  thing he said was you know you're going to get your
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  transmissions and rear ends from from from Liberty where where
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  the where the the six and the 16 were you are going to get
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  engines from from Livonia MI Roush Roush engines.
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  Other than that it's your it's you guys do it do it the way you
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  want to do it You cannot do it in conjunction with Liberty you
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  have to do it on your own. That was the orders and and he
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  let us run that race scene hire who we wanted to hire build the
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  race cars how we wanted to build them without question.
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  He gave us how many we could build.
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  We had a budget for sure we had a budget but he let us do it and
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  and he charged us with doing that and and he he he would get
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  out of your way and let you do it.
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  When you screwed up. He was there to help you the
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  first time. The second time he was there to
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  punish you. Right.
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  And and it taught me I became a man working for Jack Roush.
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  He man. It just was an amazing
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  experience and it went so far that there were times he and I
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  would butt heads. We would really go at it and and
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  one time he he walked me out of the front of the shop right next
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  to Rusty Shop Penske right there in Mooresville.
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  Right. He walked me out of the front of
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  the shop and he he walked it. He walked us into the on the
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  sidewalk and he pointed to the sign in front of the building.
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  He said what does that sign say? And I said it says Roush racing.
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  And he said yes, it does. It does not say Jeff Burton
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  racing. It says Roush Racing and as long
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  as it says Rouse racing, we're going to, I'm the final say.
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  But the point in that was that he let it be.
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  I felt like it was Jeff Burton racing and and I would fight him
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  and push him and he would and he would finally get to the point
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  where OK enough, we're doing it my way.
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  But he would give me the opportunity to argue to to
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  disagree. And so yeah, there was a while I
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  did. I did want his job and he was.
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  He was, I was. He was smart enough to give me
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  enough rope to to let me run and then he would reign me in and it
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  was just an amazing experience. So I remember those days.
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  Frankie Stoddard was your crew chief and you and you two were
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  glued together. You were winning everything.
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  You've got 21 NASCAR Cup wins, 254 top 10s.
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  Now we're going to get to your stats later, but I'm sitting
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  here looking at this and to me listening to you right now, Jack
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  says OK, you, you and Frankie were on the team and you give
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  him that many wins, you would have to think that it would.
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  You felt pretty comfortable because you're you're getting
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  the job done. So when when when you did go
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  head to head with him, you had to feel comfortable because you
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  had to feel like you were delivering, You were the man
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  because you were delivering. Well, so a couple things
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  happened. And Kenny, you know how it is,
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  man. You you evolve right?
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  Over time you evolve and you change.
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  And what happened to me early in my career was I let people, some
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  people run over me. I let some people that I drove
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  for run over me and and I was the guy that was going to make
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  everybody happy and and was going to not cause trouble and
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  that wasn't working out. You know that that was that was
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  going to get me fired. As a matter of fact it did get
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  me fired. I got fired several times and I
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  got fired for things that for lack of performance in which the
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  only thing I was doing was sitting in the seat and driving
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  it and and the shit wouldn't drive like it wouldn't, you
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  know, or it might have for somebody else but I couldn't
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  make it And so you know I let some people run over me not just
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  with decisions but with other things as well.
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  And I finally said enough, you know enough.
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  If we're going to if I'm going to have success or failure at
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  least I'm going to have some say in it.
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  And it it got to the point where it was kind of do or die in my
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  career and and you know things aligned don't.
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  I don't want to make it sound like it was some grand plan
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  because it wasn't things worked out when they looked like they
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  weren't going to multiple times and but I just got to the point
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  where you know to hell with this.
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  The hell with being told what I'm going to do all the time and
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  not having to say I understand you're my boss.
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  I get it you're my boss got to work for you.
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  But I'm going to try to have a say and try to help direct what
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  it is that I think I'm good at or and and say the hell out of
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  the things that I think I'm not good at.
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  But that evolved over time. And then Jack and when I got to
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  Jack it just all unleashed because he was willing to let me
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  do that. And I was in a place in my life
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  where I was I was ready to do it and and it had enough of doing
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  it the other way. Which ultimately by the way was
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  the end of my career as well. You know, because things changed
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  so quickly that I wasn't smart enough to, you know, I I how am
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  I going to sit in a room with four engineers and tell them
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  they're wrong? Because they, you know, like it
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  just evolved. And so that was my success, but
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  it was also ultimately my I'm doing as well.
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  I Mandy, these Kenny conversations really helped me
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  mentally because my wife said to me all the time, you, you, you
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  say yes. You need to learn to say no.
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  Your team's running over you. You built your own cars, honey,
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  you know what to do. Why don't you do it?
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  And I felt just like you. I felt like if I bucked the
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  system, you know, I wished I could have been a little bit
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  more like my brother because you know, he would He ran, you know,
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  he ran Penske Racing. But.
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  And and look and that's that's where that that's Rusty Mark.
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  You know those guys like they were my heroes because they knew
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  what shocks were on the car. They knew what springs were in
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  the car when I looked up and recognize I had to beat them.
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  Like I didn't even. It's weird as it sounds like
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  Earnhardt was on a different Stratus like he was out there
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  and that's nothing against Rusty and Fart because they're but but
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  they were the guys that I needed to beat and when I looked at how
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  they were conducting their business it was they were in it.
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  They were making decisions they were they knew it was in the
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  car. They knew how the bodies were
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  hung. They knew they were in it and
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  and that's what you needed to do in my opinion at that time in
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  our sport that's that's where the success was and and look I
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  Rusty while your brother your brother at Dover.
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  I couldn't I couldn't qualify to save my ass.
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  I was horrible qualifying and I was sitting next to him in the
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  garage at Dover and I said Rusty I what am I doing wrong?
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  Why can't I drive this thing And he said, well let me see what
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  you got. You know we used to have our we
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  used to have our setups on a sheet of paper like it wasn't a
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  you know and I said he said you going to qualify that.
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  I said that's my intention And he he said he said well that
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  you're not going to qualify. Well, and he set my car up in
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  the floor of garage in in the garage at Dover.
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  He said put this, this, this, this, this, this, this in it,
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  put this nose weight in it, wrote it all down.
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  I gave it to my guys. We put it in.
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  I mean, that's how it used to be.
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  Yeah. And and I still qualified bad,
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  but but it it it, those were the people that I was had this super
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  high respect for because Rusty was in there, you know, I pitted
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  next to him. I saw his.
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  I saw the way he interacted with his team.
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  I saw. Which is why when when I got a
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  chance to work with Buddy Buddy Parrot, I'm like, hell yeah,
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  because I knew Buddy was all he was going to be good with me
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  being heavily involved. And so that's you know, that's
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  the guys that I looked up to and still look up to because they're
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  the ones that you know, they just didn't sit in the race car
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  and and match the gas. They had something to do with
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  the vehicle itself. Yeah so so a comment and then a
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  question. You and I grew up in an era, era
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  where the driver had to take care of his own chassis.
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  Rusty used to joke with me if if I started the race and I got 30
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  laps into it and I got real loose.
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  He said well Herman it's your fault because you're you were
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  the last one to drive it smart ass statement.
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  But he he was right. So what you're saying is we grew
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  up in an era where you looked over here and here was Mark
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  Martin, you know, and and here was rusty.
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  They were setting their own cars up and you felt like hell, if
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  I'm going to keep up with them. I got to have a lot to do with
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  my chassis too. So that's my comment.
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  My my question is this, when did you feel that era changing to
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  where there was so much, you know, coil binding the right
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  front? We're pulling the nose down.
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  I know all this stuff. I'm just wanting you to answer
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  When did that happen? When did you find that
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  happening? How did you deal with that?
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  So, so well it was the IT was the IT was what ended the the
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  Frank Stoddard Jeff Burton relationship.
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  It was because that was evolving.
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  Look, I remember we were at Richmond testing and Darrell
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  Walter walked by me and he said 3 fives and a seven or something
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  like. That left front, right front,
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  left rear. What?
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  The hell are you talking? Right.
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  And then and then Steve Park won Rockingham you know Cole bound
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  and and how you going to make this work like what does this
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  mean And I I I it it it completely changed.
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  We completely change the way understanding that that arrow
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  and center of gravity we always knew center of gravity matter
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  but we did that by building the car.
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  We didn't do that by setting the car up, right?
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  Get the lead low and now you're. Maximizing Now you're maximizing
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  center of gravity and and arrow with.
• 21:22
  Not just how you hang the body, and not how you build the
• 21:24
  chassis and the parts you both own it, but how the car is
• 21:27
  ultimately set up. It changed everything for me.
• 21:31
  It changed everything and and I I vividly remember Gerald
• 21:35
  Waldron walking by me and saying that and I chased him down like
• 21:38
  what the hell are you talking about and and and then when
• 21:42
  Steve Park won Rockingham you know coal bound that was all the
• 21:48
  rumor and but it turned out to be true and and then it started
• 21:52
  this this game about when I game it started this this massive
• 21:56
  effort on how do you get there and it it was a it was a major
• 22:01
  change in the way the sport worked.
• 22:03
  And and the cars got really low in the front and then the rules
• 22:06
  changed. We had a right height rule and
• 22:09
  here we are to this day and you know I really liked what you
• 22:12
  said. I just learned a little bit.
• 22:14
  I would say the sport really changed what you're saying right
• 22:18
  now because we we had to rebuild the race cars.
• 22:23
  OK, now we're going to run them super low.
• 22:24
  So now we got too much angle and too much camber gain in the
• 22:27
  right front and now they're rebuilding A-frame purchase.
• 22:31
  So you do bring up a good point. Everything's bottoming out
• 22:35
  everything, you know, like to hell with testing.
• 22:37
  Let's just stay at home and we'll just keep raising stuff up
• 22:39
  so it doesn't hit the racetrack. I mean that.
• 22:41
  You know what I mean? Like you, you had chassis
• 22:43
  sitting in the floor that no longer work because the frame
• 22:46
  rails are dragging the. I mean it, it and that started
• 22:50
  this whole set of rules, right? And so when, when, when fans or
• 22:54
  people say, well, it needs to go back like it used to be, well,
• 22:57
  it can't. Yeah.
• 22:58
  It's impossible. You cannot put it back like it
• 23:02
  used to because the genie's out of the bottle.
• 23:04
  Yeah, it isn't that the rules change, is that that we got
• 23:07
  smarter. We did it.
• 23:09
  Yes we did it and so or they did it.
• 23:12
  I wasn't smart enough to do it and and so you can't if if you
• 23:16
  had a if you know cars need to be back like they used to be.
• 23:19
  If you brought Midnight and whatever them damn race cars
• 23:22
  names were or whatever though you were back and you brought
• 23:24
  them back and put them on the racetrack we would screw it up.
• 23:29
  Like you can't build enough rules to make it so you we
• 23:32
  wouldn't screw it up. So the the the the genies out of
• 23:35
  the bottle everybody's a lot smarter engineering and
• 23:39
  understanding of aerodynamics. All that is is it is what it is.
• 23:43
  It's I hear it in dirt racing. I hear it in dirt racing.
• 23:47
  I got arrow tight. I get behind another car.
• 23:49
  It's hard to pass. Happens in Martinsville, happens
• 23:52
  in late mall races. It happens all over the country
• 23:54
  now because we we're learning and have learned how to maximize
• 23:59
  grip and how to. I mean, it's you.
• 24:01
  You're never going to change it. It's not going to go back.
• 24:04
  I I got to apologize to the fans tuning in here to listen to you
• 24:08
  because I can remember Matt Kenseth saying to me I'm looking
• 24:13
  for mechanical grip. When I'm behind somebody I still
• 24:17
  want my car to to turn and I went oh that's interesting and I
• 24:21
  remember when that coming in so when you're behind somebody you
• 24:25
  got no air to your nose and that's when we were you know
• 24:27
  running the 900 and the right front and whatever it was but
• 24:32
  good good point Jeff you you reminded me and and everybody
• 24:36
  out there that was the pivotal point when the sport changed was
• 24:40
  the nickname was 3 fives and a seven pair of five hundreds in
• 24:44
  the front 500 lefers. Good stuff.
• 24:48
  Well, listen, it's time for me and we do this every Kenny
• 24:53
  conversation and it seems like a really good time because you are
• 24:58
  you are very good. You're you're great.
• 25:00
  And I enjoy this time at Kenny conversation.
• 25:04
  This is where I put my glasses. On 2. 100, By the way, Yeah,
• 25:10
  there we go. You want to read?
• 25:12
  You want to read with me how great you are?
• 25:16
  OK, Jeff Burton right now looking good at 56 years old.
• 25:22
  He's the mayor, one of NASCAR's 75 greatest drivers.
• 25:29
  Now, Jeff, I'm going to read a lot more, but I want to comment
• 25:31
  on that. There's thousands of NASCAR race
• 25:35
  car drivers, thousands. And you have been chosen as one
• 25:39
  of the 75 best, greatest 695 NASCAR races over 22 years.
• 25:49
  Now feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.
• 25:53
  I wouldn't. Know.
• 25:55
  Come on now. Those I wouldn't know. 21 NASCAR
• 26:00
  Cup wins, 254 top 10s. Damn, that's getting it, man. 27
• 26:10
  Xfinity Wins 153 Top 10s. You made four truck starts.
• 26:18
  That's a story right there. But we're going to wind it down
• 26:23
  right here because I feel like this this tells everybody how
• 26:26
  great you are and why you were chosen one of NASCAR's 75
• 26:30
  greatest drivers. You are a two time winner of our
• 26:34
  granddaddy, one of our races, which is a Coca-Cola 600.
• 26:39
  You won it in 1999 and 2001 and then I'm sure you're going to
• 26:45
  agree this is the one you really liked.
• 26:47
  In 1999 you won the Southern 500, The Lady in Black, Too
• 26:52
  tough to tame. So I say the same thing to all
• 26:56
  the racers when I read those stats.
• 26:59
  Off to you. Where's your mind go?
• 27:02
  What do you think about? Oh man, honestly, Kenny, it's
• 27:08
  you know, I was really, I was really fortunate because I
• 27:16
  didn't really have a lot of Bush level success, right?
• 27:20
  I won a bunch of late mile races, but I didn't.
• 27:22
  I didn't win a lot of Bush Grand National races.
• 27:25
  In the early going. What's that?
• 27:27
  Yeah yeah yeah I want them later and and I got and I got some
• 27:34
  opportunities that just fell my way and and multiple times I
• 27:40
  thought my career was over and I'm talking about late in the
• 27:43
  year and things happened and I end up ended up in a car ended
• 27:47
  up driving and and you know what I feel like I did a really good
• 27:54
  job was on executing on opportunities right and and and
• 28:00
  like those top 10s I mean that's you know me Kenny that's really
• 28:03
  what I was about right. Like I wasn't as fast as rusty.
• 28:06
  I wasn't as fast as Mark Those guys have elite you know Jeff
• 28:11
  Gordon those guys had a have elite speed I wasn't I wasn't
• 28:18
  that I would worry the hell out of you you know if we're 500
• 28:22
  miles I mean that was where my strength was and and so I feel
• 28:27
  like I got I feel like I got a lot out of my career with less
• 28:32
  talent than Mark and Rusty and and some of those guys I was not
• 28:35
  as good as they were. I I honestly, Mark will say he
• 28:38
  wasn't as good as anybody. He's full of shit.
• 28:40
  I really wasn't and and they just had more they had more
• 28:44
  elite speed than I did. So I'm really proud of what I
• 28:48
  did because I felt like I ground.
• 28:50
  I ground out a career and and and and did it kind of a with a
• 28:54
  blue collar a blue collar mentality.
• 28:57
  I'm going to go different direction here because this is
• 28:59
  just what's in my mind. I'm not a journalist.
• 29:03
  We do Kenny conversation because it's fun and it was a friend of
• 29:07
  mine's idea and I'm like, OK, and then we're having fun doing
• 29:10
  it. But I don't remember you ever
• 29:14
  saying you were retiring from NASCAR.
• 29:16
  What? Was there an event or did you
• 29:18
  ever say, Did you ever say I'm retiring because I just, I don't
• 29:22
  remember it? No I you know I I I drove I I
• 29:28
  wanted I wanted to run one more year full time is what I really
• 29:33
  wanted to do and and it just didn't work out it was the right
• 29:36
  time to leave it was the right time for me it was the right
• 29:39
  time for Richard I was driving for Richard Children's at the
• 29:41
  time whom I have a ton of respect for.
• 29:44
  You know he had Ryan Newman was was ready to come in and and
• 29:48
  Ryan was you know ready to roll and I felt like that team was
• 29:52
  was in a good spot and I had an opportunity with NBC.
• 29:55
  It just all it all worked out and then I did run some races
• 30:00
  for for Michael Walter I was was hired by Michael to come in as
• 30:04
  kind of a consultant to to help that team and and and then I
• 30:10
  wrote I drove some races when for Tony when Tony Tony had a
• 30:14
  problem I drove some some races for him but no I never really
• 30:17
  officially retired I kind of faded away there was there was
• 30:21
  which was fine you know like it it.
• 30:23
  I wasn't real sure I was wanting to be done and and I wasn't sure
• 30:28
  I was wanting to be done until I was fully done for like a year.
• 30:31
  You know. And I recognize I'm not as good
• 30:34
  as I need to be. I didn't know.
• 30:36
  I don't know why. You know it's a weird it's
• 30:39
  weird, Kenny. Like I don't have no idea why I
• 30:42
  couldn't be successful in my last two years of racing.
• 30:45
  It wasn't desire it wasn't effort.
• 30:47
  It wasn't. I don't.
• 30:48
  I just wasn't getting it done and I was fighting and believed
• 30:52
  I could and was working my guts out and bringing every bit of
• 30:55
  effort I knew, but the results just weren't there and and I had
• 30:59
  no idea why. Well, Jeff, here we go again.
• 31:04
  Because on Kenny conversation, I've been lucky, very lucky and
• 31:09
  humble to interview have conversations with the greats.
• 31:13
  I'm talking, you know, all of them and and we are all the
• 31:17
  same. We are so damn hard on ourselves
• 31:20
  here. I just read off these stats that
• 31:23
  hell, I would cut maybe three of my fingers off that and and all
• 31:29
  the greats go back to those times that just weren't so
• 31:32
  great. Why do we do that?
• 31:36
  Well, I mean, look, you and I, you and I, I watched you work.
• 31:40
  I I watched you when you were driving for your brother.
• 31:44
  You were intimately involved with that race team.
• 31:47
  It wasn't. It wasn't this thing that you
• 31:50
  would come in and there was a race at 7:00 and you would show
• 31:53
  up at 5:00 and you would qualify and race at seven.
• 31:56
  It was. It was.
• 31:58
  Dedicated the truck and trailer in Yes.
• 32:02
  It was commitment, it was dedication.
• 32:05
  It was all it was, your entire being.
• 32:08
  And look our wives and I've told my kids, I've been straight up
• 32:11
  with them. Y'all came second it it.
• 32:15
  I'm sorry. I mean if you if that hurts your
• 32:17
  feelings you need to understand it that it's not that I didn't
• 32:20
  love you but at the end of the day I had my kill was kill was
• 32:24
  the one that made you guys number one.
• 32:26
  She allowed me to make let you be #2 and by the way she was #2
• 32:32
  and racing came first and and air wives knew it they knew it.
• 32:37
  They might not want to admit it but they knew it.
• 32:39
  It had to come first and and you know, you and I were were were
• 32:44
  good race car drivers, but we were successful because we've
• 32:47
  had a damn high work ethic. Yes, and.
• 32:50
  That's how it had to be. And so when you, when you were
• 32:54
  even today, the way you, the way you run your your dirt races,
• 32:58
  right, You don't just show up and drive.
• 33:00
  You know, you do it all myself. And so, so it's it's it's who
• 33:05
  you are. So when it's who you are, you
• 33:09
  you can't walk away from the bad times.
• 33:11
  You can't just say ah shit, like it's part of you and and yeah
• 33:16
  and and you know, yeah. Bad times were devastating.
• 33:21
  People rained. Ah, people's, you know.
• 33:24
  God, it must have been fun racing.
• 33:25
  Hell, no, it wasn't fun. Fun is not the right word.
• 33:30
  It was intense. It was exhilarating.
• 33:33
  It was nauseating at times. It was terrifying.
• 33:37
  It was. It was all of these things.
• 33:40
  But fun wasn't in the list. And and and so it wasn't fun
• 33:47
  because you knew those those moments were coming and you knew
• 33:50
  that if you didn't work, every if you didn't make it #1 like
• 33:55
  now I can lay on this couch and take a nap.
• 33:57
  Yeah, When in 1998 you think I was laying on that couch taking.
• 34:03
  A No word of death breaking out in hives, running through the
• 34:06
  shop. There's.
• 34:08
  No way. So you know that reminds me, you
• 34:13
  know I admire you. Back then I wanted to outrun you
• 34:19
  and I couldn't. But later on in life you said a
• 34:22
  quote and and I it just reminded me when I was listening to you
• 34:27
  intently and I wrote it down here and I love this quote.
• 34:32
  And you, I want to know if you remember this, somebody said to
• 34:35
  you about youth and you looked at them and you said, would I
• 34:38
  want to be 22 years old again? And you said hell no.
• 34:44
  When we look back at ourselves, it was brutal, wasn't it?
• 34:47
  Yeah. Look, I I, I I've said it
• 34:52
  multiple times. I've my career almost came to an
• 34:54
  end several times and one year. I mean, I never.
• 34:59
  I woke up. I woke up with a broken back one
• 35:01
  time, wrecked the late model car, broke my back, knocked me
• 35:04
  out and I woke. I was awake, but I wasn't really
• 35:07
  conscious. Until what track was this tell
• 35:09
  me a little bit about? Orange County I I just busted my
• 35:13
  ass in a in a in a race car that I that I helped build in a seat
• 35:17
  that I put in the car and seatbelts that I put in the car
• 35:20
  and I did it wrong and and oh I I I had I didn't have the belts
• 35:26
  running over a bar or anything. I just had them run it over my
• 35:29
  shoulder. So when I hit it just, you know,
• 35:31
  it just compacted me and it crushed, crushed some vertebrae
• 35:36
  and I woke up, I woke up Internet Rescue Squad going to
• 35:40
  the the Durham hospital, a race in Orange County and in a late
• 35:44
  model. And even then I I wasn't.
• 35:47
  I never contemplated. Well, I'm going to quit.
• 35:51
  Like it wasn't. It didn't even enter my mind.
• 35:53
  But one year, my second full year of Xfinity as my second
• 35:59
  actually, I guess it was really my first full year.
• 36:00
  But second, second year of trying to win all the races, I
• 36:04
  got about 3/4 away through. And Kenny, I was done.
• 36:07
  Like I was emotionally, physically done.
• 36:12
  Couldn't do anymore. Couldn't I was exhausted.
• 36:15
  I was you know, like Kim's dad is a physician.
• 36:18
  He wanted to put me in the hospital and I I couldn't.
• 36:21
  You know what I mean? I can't.
• 36:21
  I can't do that. I could keep going.
• 36:23
  And that was the only year that I'm like is this really worth
• 36:27
  it? You know, like is that really is
• 36:28
  it really worth it? And.
• 36:30
  And but I got, I got through it. But man, those people just don't
• 36:36
  they just don't understand how hard it is.
• 36:40
  They see the if you're racing on Sunday or on Saturday on
• 36:45
  television, they see that no idea what went on before you got
• 36:51
  to the racetrack and and it is, it is a it.
• 36:56
  It's a great way to make a living.
• 36:57
  I just bragged. I didn't brag, but I was just
• 36:59
  told a story about, you know, my horses, my horse farm, and you
• 37:02
  know, I mean without racing. I don't have any of that stuff,
• 37:06
  but but it was, every bit of it was earned, I can promise you
• 37:10
  that. OK, so I'd listen to you
• 37:12
  intently, and I do my best to write notes down.
• 37:17
  I stress over what I'm going to say, but you told me just now
• 37:22
  something that I thought about Is it fair?
• 37:27
  Do do, do I remember this right? Were you the first NASCAR driver
• 37:32
  to ever have a full containment seat at Daytona?
• 37:36
  I remember you coming into Daytona, the July race, with all
• 37:40
  of us looking at your car, and you had this crazy contraption
• 37:44
  in there. And now that I look back at it,
• 37:46
  I'm thinking to myself, was he the first one to have a full
• 37:49
  containment seat? Yeah.
• 37:52
  So it was it was the IT. So so we had four drivers for
• 37:59
  Ford and they had had a seminar safety seminar.
• 38:02
  Remember we we had several Adam. Adam got killed.
• 38:07
  Tony Roper got killed. Kenny Irwin Junior got killed.
• 38:13
  I you know we had these these horrible deaths and for and and
• 38:21
  it just wasn't right I mean we and and you know racers I was
• 38:25
  you know just shrugged it off right it was it wasn't to.
• 38:28
  Be it was dangerous. Don't do nothing.
• 38:30
  So, so, so Ford and I don't remember the timing so but I
• 38:36
  don't remember the timing of it but Ford had a safety seminar
• 38:39
  and and I had this conversation about how IndyCar seats are
• 38:47
  different than the NASCAR type seats.
• 38:50
  And and I started looking at pictures about you know their
• 38:56
  heads were contained at that time and why can't we do that.
• 39:00
  And so prior to that we had done the member Simpson built the
• 39:04
  Burton net, you know it was a net that went down the side.
• 39:07
  Oh my God, yes, I forgot about that Nets on both sides of.
• 39:11
  Us. Yeah, So.
• 39:11
  Well, it started on the left because Jerry Nadu had a
• 39:19
  situation and there have been talk about it, and I think even
• 39:22
  you may have been in a situation in New Hampshire.
• 39:24
  Where did the driver's helmet make contact with the wall?
• 39:28
  Did that happen? Mine did.
• 39:31
  And and and I mean it hurt you badly.
• 39:35
  It hurt Jerry Nadeau obviously very badly.
• 39:38
  And so. How career?
• 39:39
  But go ahead, I'm all right. Bad deal.
• 39:43
  So you know we so we built this net, me and Rambo that that
• 39:51
  worked at Ralph's. We built this left side net and
• 39:55
  we went to Simpson and said we made him up a pattern said can
• 39:58
  you build us this? And they.
• 40:00
  They liked it and they put it they actually made it in catalog
• 40:02
  put it in their catalog and they call it the burden net.
• 40:05
  Then we then we put it on the right side like how to contain
• 40:10
  you know try to contain your head right and then then they
• 40:14
  were like wait a minute why can't we do this with something
• 40:16
  more rigid. So we we and and at that time
• 40:19
  and it the IT had gotten ramped up cow wells had gone he was
• 40:24
  trying to build a carbon seat the first NASCAR carbon seat
• 40:27
  full containment. He was off on that project that
• 40:31
  was taking forever to get done. I mean forever, I said to hell
• 40:34
  with this. We're no need to wait around.
• 40:36
  So Brian Butler, I went to Brian Butler and I'm like, man, we got
• 40:39
  to we got to figure this out. And so we built this head
• 40:42
  containment and it had a it had a hole in the side of it where
• 40:46
  you could look through you. Know Got to see who's next to
• 40:49
  me, right? And and so so yeah that was that
• 40:55
  was 'cause we had. I didn't but the sport had
• 40:58
  started building containment with with catch rather than
• 41:02
  catching your ribs, catching your shoulders because we were
• 41:04
  all breaking their ribs but but we did nothing to contain the
• 41:08
  head and so and and the first time that the head was
• 41:13
  contained, fully contained was was yeah, Daytona in in my car
• 41:18
  and a piece of Brian Butler and and I built together.
• 41:21
  OK, well, I want to make a big deal out of that right here,
• 41:24
  right now. I just when I listened to you
• 41:26
  intently, my mind went back there.
• 41:29
  To me, you are an award-winning innovator because race car
• 41:36
  drivers are. We got egos.
• 41:39
  I ain't doing that. You know, I'm a man.
• 41:42
  And here you showed up with that and it made it OK.
• 41:47
  So I want to thank you for saving everybody's life.
• 41:50
  There's no telling how many drivers might have been killed
• 41:53
  or maimed. And here you did that.
• 41:57
  And I hope NASCAR listens to this.
• 41:59
  And I hope that, you know, sometimes things are delayed and
• 42:05
  you did that. And this is like having a dream
• 42:07
  and waking up 10 years later going.
• 42:09
  I remember when that happened, and that's what just happened to
• 42:12
  me just now. OK, let's lighten the load.
• 42:16
  I feel like we've got a little too intense here.
• 42:20
  Damn, I'm exhausted. I say it every time.
• 42:23
  Things tend to happen like that around me for some.
• 42:25
  Reason. Yeah.
• 42:26
  Well be it's it's all good though.
• 42:28
  It's all good. Earlier today I said I'm going
• 42:33
  to talk to Jeff Burton and somebody had fun with it and
• 42:37
  it's it. Listen, it's a good thing, OK?
• 42:40
  Rusty Wallace, my Big Brother Mike and me, we're all
• 42:44
  different. I am way different than my
• 42:46
  brothers. So we have Ward, who is a great
• 42:51
  racer, a good human being, his son Jeb, great marriage, but he
• 42:56
  is as country as they come. And so the the joke was always
• 43:01
  that Ward grew up on the South end of the house and you always
• 43:07
  were OK with it. Why?
• 43:09
  OK, so here's the question for all the fans.
• 43:11
  Drumroll, how come you are so straight spoken with 0 country
• 43:20
  pumpkin accent? Why are you 2 so different?
• 43:24
  We hey look we did blood test we're brothers I look I-11 when
• 43:30
  he was driving with Caterpillar I I somebody asked me that and I
• 43:33
  said he spent a lot of time in the woods and the animals taught
• 43:36
  him how to speak and and they didn't think that was funny at
• 43:40
  all they were not happy. I old Greg with Caterpillar he
• 43:45
  came to see me at the track he's I don't think that's funny.
• 43:48
  Everybody else thought it was hell.
• 43:51
  I don't know. I have no idea.
• 43:52
  You know, And we have a middle brother, Brian.
• 43:55
  OK, and I was going to ask about that.
• 43:57
  This is unbelievable. Tell me about this Hidden
• 44:00
  brother. Yeah so Brian, Brian won more go
• 44:03
  Kart races and Warden I didn't put together.
• 44:05
  I mean Brian was a bad ass in a go Kart and but he's a little
• 44:10
  more practical than we are and he he did the go to college.
• 44:14
  He always knew what he wanted to do.
• 44:16
  He he my my family had a construction company in it for
• 44:20
  forever and my brother for as long as I can remember that was
• 44:23
  his goal. He wanted to take that thing
• 44:26
  over and he has been running it for you know, God 30 years but
• 44:31
  but he's a third generation and that's what he wanted to do.
• 44:35
  And he looked at this racing thing and said you guys are nuts
• 44:37
  you know and and and you were and we are.
• 44:39
  We were my parents thought I was nuts.
• 44:43
  Everybody did right and so so he.
• 44:47
  But. He is in the middle of us.
• 44:50
  He has like he is dead in the middle of us in age and he's
• 44:54
  dead in the middle of us. And how he talks, how he looks.
• 44:58
  Yeah, he is right in the middle. He has some of that, but not as
• 45:02
  much as not as little as me. And but I have no idea because
• 45:07
  no one else in our family has that.
• 45:11
  I don't even what you call it. The accent or whatever it is
• 45:14
  that war has. No one else has it.
• 45:17
  And and but he is. Ward is his pot.
• 45:20
  If I when I everywhere, I well, not everywhere.
• 45:23
  Most places I go, people ask me, where's Ward?
• 45:26
  How's he doing? What's going on Ward?
• 45:28
  People love Ward because he would tell.
• 45:31
  He would call it like he saw it. He he he just he he drove
• 45:36
  fearlessly. Yes, he did.
• 45:38
  Oh, my God. He drove.
• 45:40
  I mean, you remember. You remember?
• 45:42
  Arlington IN Pony. Sitting on the phone at
• 45:46
  Darlington on that Fresh Pave and then coming back the next
• 45:50
  race and he's like, yeah, I'm going to do it again.
• 45:53
  He came off Turn 2 and that thing, I mean it turned around
• 45:56
  fast and but he was in the gas and that's how he drove.
• 46:00
  I mean he he was in the gas and and I was more, you know, a
• 46:06
  little more calculated. I wasn't as in the gas.
• 46:10
  They they said ward, what happened to the MB, A MB NA
• 46:13
  Pontiac, he said. Well it's falling out and burst
• 46:17
  into flames and boy, it did it caught on fire.
• 46:19
  So he. I he we were at Pocono.
• 46:24
  We were at a rookies racing at Pocono and you know he decided
• 46:29
  that somebody was holding him up or something.
• 46:30
  He was going to pass him on the outside over in three, right?
• 46:34
  And like that's one groove, right.
• 46:36
  He jumped up on the outside of and he firewalled deep that
• 46:39
  thing and you know and he gets out and he they interview him.
• 46:42
  He says, Man, I just need AI, just need some experience around
• 46:46
  me to tell me not to do those. My mom would say self, Why did I
• 46:54
  do that? So, so Brian the the brother
• 46:59
  that we never see, you know, the inquisitive minds want to know.
• 47:03
  So is he is he still successful? Is he running the the family
• 47:09
  construction business or South Boston?
• 47:12
  Yeah, he's doing great. He's, he's done a done a great
• 47:14
  job with that company. He's grown it.
• 47:16
  He's done a really good job with it.
• 47:18
  You remember when we used to run, We go to South Boston and
• 47:22
  run the run the Bush races. Oh yeah, the the, the, the
• 47:26
  grass. Three and four.
• 47:27
  All those people would sit up there and it.
• 47:29
  Was Oh yeah. I.
• 47:30
  Don't know. You know they'd always have
• 47:31
  Burton signs or whatever. Well that my brother Brian he
• 47:35
  was the ringleader of that whole that whole thing.
• 47:39
  Oh yeah. Massive supporter of of Ward 9
• 47:42
  now Harrison and Jeb and just just huge supporters of us and
• 47:46
  and he's he's the he's the family patriarch.
• 47:50
  He's the guy that always does the right thing.
• 47:52
  Always is there to help. Always there to support.
• 47:55
  He's the he's the leader of the family.
• 47:57
  Well, that makes me really happy, 'cause, you know, we are
• 48:00
  competitors and sometimes we just don't calm the hell down
• 48:04
  and realize it for somebody. Hey, I I had a friend one time.
• 48:10
  You know, I I grew up with him as a child and he he, he drove
• 48:14
  an over the road truck and he came to Charlotte and parked his
• 48:19
  truck out. You know, he parked it
• 48:22
  somewhere. Anyway, I got him a pit pass and
• 48:24
  he came down to me, you know, I'm getting ready to get in the
• 48:27
  car. I got him pit pass and
• 48:28
  everything and he was talking to me as we were still, you know,
• 48:31
  playing, you know, in the creeks and shooting BB guns.
• 48:34
  He says this is really dangerous.
• 48:37
  Kenny, be careful. And and I thought, this is so
• 48:40
  damn sweet because we're just so hardcore.
• 48:43
  He probably going to die. You know, he'll probably get
• 48:45
  broken ribs. And here's my friend like your
• 48:48
  brother, you know, sure and worried about us.
• 48:52
  So man, oh man, here we are again.
• 48:55
  Looks like you're going to be over an hour and I'm trying to
• 48:59
  hurry up here but there's so much to you.
• 49:00
  So, you know, I have to talk about your son Harrison.
• 49:06
  He came on the scene just lighting it up on short tracks.
• 49:10
  I mean, winning the biggest races there was.
• 49:13
  And so that paved the way for him to make it to the big time.
• 49:18
  He he runs for The Wood Brothers right now in the Cup Series.
• 49:23
  Tell me about your son Harrison. You know, I mean, I guess you
• 49:28
  don't got to go in depth, but I know you, you and Kim love him
• 49:31
  so much. Where is he at right now and
• 49:34
  what do you think? Well they're you know they have
• 49:37
  not had they've not had the success that they they want to
• 49:39
  have and that they obviously need to have and and at the cup
• 49:42
  level you know getting here he did you know it's kind of funny
• 49:46
  you know he he he won everything he sat in and and I mean you
• 49:52
  know at 8 years old he's running around the country went in like
• 49:55
  he's won a lot of races a lot of races and and you know K&N Orca
• 50:02
  you know late models quarter midgets like he won a lot of
• 50:05
  stuff and and did it. It was fast.
• 50:09
  Yeah. Like fast smart.
• 50:11
  Like this is the you know he's got the whole package and and
• 50:15
  then he went to he went and and ran his first full year at KBM
• 50:20
  at Kyle's place and they did he and and Todd Gillan and they
• 50:24
  were they were both lighting up you know Arca K&N they were you
• 50:27
  know contending for the wins having incredible races racing
• 50:30
  against each other. Big rivals didn't really like
• 50:33
  each other. Not now.
• 50:34
  They're best friends didn't really like each other that
• 50:37
  much. They go to KBM together and
• 50:39
  neither one of them is having success and and and and you know
• 50:44
  most people went to KBM just lit it up.
• 50:46
  Right. And neither one of those guys
• 50:47
  were doing it for whatever reason and that became public.
• 50:51
  You know Kyle said some things publicly and and and that that
• 50:55
  put a lot of pressure on those two young men which ultimately
• 50:57
  was was fine. Right.
• 50:59
  It it. It it, it taught them, it taught
• 51:02
  them at a young age, her younger than we had to learn.
• 51:05
  Things that you went through. Oh, yeah.
• 51:07
  Oh, yeah. And it made them tougher.
• 51:10
  It made them stronger. And then you know, so they got
• 51:13
  he and Todd both you know got through that and and it made
• 51:17
  them stronger and made them tougher.
• 51:19
  It was a great experience for them.
• 51:21
  They were driving really good equipment but they weren't
• 51:23
  having the success that they needed to have for whatever
• 51:25
  reason. And and when you're at a big
• 51:27
  team that's used to winning races and you're not it's going
• 51:30
  to fall on your shoulders. That's how it is.
• 51:33
  You know that's just simply how it is and so so then the next
• 51:39
  year he went to to to Gibbs and just had a great year rookie
• 51:45
  year you know won four races broke Carl Edwards record for
• 51:49
  for the best start in the end for rookie driver in the Xfinity
• 51:52
  Series just you know lift that up and then and then with the
• 51:58
  cup and and it's it is not gone as well as anybody wants it to
• 52:03
  The Wood Brothers Harrison the Penske organization it it just
• 52:07
  you know obviously hasn't had they haven't been as good as
• 52:10
  they need to be really with with with he and and centric both you
• 52:16
  know both of those guys have struggled getting up to speed
• 52:21
  bringing consistent speed the way that that their teammates
• 52:24
  have been able to So it's it is what it is they they've got to
• 52:29
  find a way as a race team to be better and Harrison's got to
• 52:33
  find a way for him to be better and they collectively got to
• 52:36
  find a way to do it together and and the talent's there it's you
• 52:42
  don't go you don't you don't lead the most laps of the
• 52:45
  snowball Derby you don't sit on the pole for the Derby you.
• 52:47
  Don't none at all. Yeah.
• 52:49
  You don't do all the things that he did has done to and not have
• 52:54
  talent you know and and and however it's it is a different
• 52:59
  world and we talk a lot about and lately the conversation you
• 53:04
  know it's been about how much practice late model guy asphalt,
• 53:07
  late model guys get. Well, you know, Harrison and a
• 53:11
  generation of drivers grew up COVID and it.
• 53:16
  Completely changed how? Think about it like Harrison ran
• 53:24
  three Xfinity races at Gibbs full time, won the second or
• 53:31
  third race at California. Not, you know, I might be wrong.
• 53:36
  The fifth race, I think the fifth race, Atlanta is the one
• 53:40
  that got cancelled. The COVID race got canceled from
• 53:44
  that point on, no. Practice right hard on a young
• 53:48
  man. And and and so he greatly
• 53:54
  benefited from practice like he he greatly benefited from lap
• 53:58
  time and and so they still matter of Christopher Bell.
• 54:05
  Christopher Bell Cole Custer that whole those guys they came
• 54:11
  to me several you know and they're like we we got to get
• 54:14
  practice this is actually ruining our careers like we got
• 54:16
  to find a way and and but we haven't we still really don't
• 54:21
  have practice so but it's that to me has has hurt some young
• 54:28
  drivers and some it hasn't but it has hurt some young drivers
• 54:31
  but you know it's it's it has had an impact but now going into
• 54:36
  the third his third year in cup there needs to be an uptick in
• 54:42
  performance There's no question and and the team's made some
• 54:46
  changes he's really happy about the changes they made but he
• 54:51
  gets along with everybody you know what I mean He hadn't he
• 54:53
  hadn't become an ass just yet. You know what I mean.
• 54:55
  It'll happen, but. We don't.
• 54:57
  We don't. We really don't want him to go
• 54:59
  through what we went through, you know?
• 55:01
  Well. Well, it's 'cause we qualified
• 55:03
  20th or? Yeah, but you got you have to
• 55:07
  and and there's no, there's there's no way around it.
• 55:10
  You know you have to you know watch what he's gone through.
• 55:14
  I've watched what he's gone through and I've paid attention
• 55:16
  to how he's handled it and I'm really proud of how he has
• 55:21
  handled it because it's hard like you and I know you and I
• 55:29
  know what he's going through. Yes.
• 55:33
  Because we've both done it and it's actually pretty
• 55:37
  interesting. Somebody put up, somebody put on
• 55:40
  on social media, Twitter, apps, whatever the hell it's called.
• 55:45
  My first years, my first two years stats compared to his
• 55:49
  first two years stats and it's pretty eerily similar.
• 55:55
  And it it's an example of and you know Dale Jarrett reminds me
• 55:59
  of this all the time. If if if Dale Jarrett hadn't
• 56:03
  have been given enough time, he would not be a Hall of Famer.
• 56:07
  Remember he He came into cup and was and then got sent back out
• 56:12
  of cup and then came back into cup.
• 56:15
  Mark Martin too. Mark Martin and so Dale Jarrett
• 56:18
  reminds me he he, Dale watches Dale watches Harrison a lot and
• 56:25
  and and he's he's he tells me all the time look man that kid
• 56:30
  can do it. He just needs time he's doing a
• 56:32
  lot of things. Well they just got to connect
• 56:35
  all the dots and and fortunately The Wood Brothers have you know
• 56:40
  they they see his work ethic. They see his dedication.
• 56:43
  They see his desire. They all see that And so you
• 56:47
  know they're like hey this guy deserves another you know
• 56:49
  deserves a shot to make this happen.
• 56:51
  So you know he's going to get a shot and they got, they got to
• 56:54
  go make some stuff happen. Yeah, I think it's fantastic.
• 56:57
  I think of all the drivers in this next Gen. car who have
• 57:00
  popped up and you know, have had dry times and starting the
• 57:04
  winning, I I expect you know him, him to be great.
• 57:07
  I really do. Just because I love racing and I
• 57:11
  watched how fast he was in every division he ran.
• 57:14
  I just wanted to hear what you had to say.
• 57:16
  I know how much you and Kim love your boy and your daughter.
• 57:20
  So you said something just then that made me think you set up
• 57:27
  Cole Custer, C Bell. Christopher Bell came to you and
• 57:31
  said we need more practice. Are you the Racing Alliance
• 57:36
  representative? Are are you in charge of that?
• 57:38
  Do you talk to NASCAR on behalf of the NASCAR drivers?
• 57:42
  So, so the the drivers advisory, cancel the DAC, you know the
• 57:47
  drivers a couple years ago. We've tried for years Kenny to
• 57:52
  get a little more organized, a little more together.
• 57:56
  You know, I had, I had a few of them, five, six of them come to
• 58:00
  me and said can you try to make this work?
• 58:03
  Because you're the mayor. They tried to do it and it just
• 58:07
  didn't happen and and for one reason or another it just it
• 58:10
  just couldn't make it just couldn't make it happen.
• 58:12
  So they came to few of them came to me and said can you to try to
• 58:17
  make this happen. We need it.
• 58:18
  I believe the drivers need it. I believe that I believe the
• 58:21
  sport needs it. I think it's in the best
• 58:23
  interest of the sport. So I I I said yes.
• 58:28
  I ran it by a few of my friends. A few of the people I respect.
• 58:31
  Kyle Petty he thought it was a he thought it was a he's like
• 58:36
  look man if and remember this is pre next Gen.
• 58:41
  Car right there was a lot of conversation about the next Gen.
• 58:44
  Car and safety etcetera and he's like look if this thing is from
• 58:48
  a safety standpoint you know like it could use your
• 58:52
  involvement like so he was kind of the one that pushed me over
• 58:55
  the edge and and so anyway I spent a lot of time talking to
• 59:00
  people in the sport the people at the top of the sport the
• 59:05
  people in all different areas of the sport and and there was a
• 59:08
  genuine desire to let's get the drivers more organized
• 59:14
  communicating better with NASCAR communicating better with the
• 59:17
  entire industry And so we got we got the DAC up and running we
• 59:22
  are in it's we're in it's full we're ending it's full second
• 59:26
  year now with with a great relationship we've we've done we
• 59:30
  we we operate behind the scenes Kenny there's really no need for
• 59:33
  us to operate in front of the public cause it's just not
• 59:36
  necessary. Does it need to be a show?
• 59:38
  No, it's not a show and it's not and it's not about it's not
• 59:42
  about me, it's not we have a we have a Board of Directors that
• 59:46
  you know we have regular meetings we got one this week in
• 59:48
  in Nashville on Thursday. We we regularly meet with
• 59:52
  NASCAR. We have quarterly meetings with
• 59:54
  them, formal quarterly meetings, but we we we have you know
• 59:58
  through it, we came weekly drivers meetings are back.
• 1:00:02
  We're not not necessarily weekly but but you know every two or
• 1:00:05
  three weeks the drivers in NASCAR get together to talk
• 1:00:08
  about things. We've just created a clear
• 1:00:11
  pathway of communicating, just a clear pathway of communicating
• 1:00:14
  and and through that came a lot of really cool things that the
• 1:00:18
  the that the fans have benefited from and they don't even know
• 1:00:21
  about it and it's fine, they don't.
• 1:00:23
  Nobody needs to know about it and NASCAR has been a willing
• 1:00:25
  partner. The car owners have been a
• 1:00:27
  willing partner the the industry of the entire industry.
• 1:00:31
  So yeah, it's worked, it's it's working.
• 1:00:34
  We have a we can be a lot better, we need to be a lot
• 1:00:36
  better. But but we've been two years,
• 1:00:40
  we've come a long way. I mean, from where we were to
• 1:00:42
  where we are today, is, is is completely different.
• 1:00:45
  Yeah, well, I think it's fantastic.
• 1:00:48
  DAC drivers Advisory Council and boy we don't didn't we need
• 1:00:53
  somebody back in our day to Rep us and so we getting pissing
• 1:00:56
  matches and arguments and. Yeah.
• 1:00:59
  And you know look it's it's it's so so the The thing is that
• 1:01:03
  what's really cool about this is that you recognize how much the
• 1:01:08
  drivers care about the quality of the race too.
• 1:01:12
  Yeah right. You know and like what can what
• 1:01:15
  only there's a we're testing Phoenix.
• 1:01:17
  You know, the short track test at Phoenix and a lot of what's
• 1:01:21
  being tested and it got a lot of stuff got tested at Richmond.
• 1:01:24
  A lot of what's being tested is through, you know, over a year
• 1:01:27
  of conversation with NASCAR and the drivers about what it is
• 1:01:31
  they're dealing with, right? That if if it was better, it
• 1:01:36
  wouldn't just make it more fun to be a better race car or be a
• 1:01:39
  race car driver. It would make a better race.
• 1:01:41
  Like, what is it that we can do that'll make a better race for
• 1:01:45
  the fans, right? And so there's a lot of things
• 1:01:48
  that are being tested that I think will be implemented this
• 1:01:51
  coming year just to make short track racing and road course
• 1:01:53
  racing better, you know, And then it's from, it's from
• 1:01:57
  talking, it's from having blunt conversations that arguments,
• 1:02:02
  disagreements in an environment where it's OK to disagree, it's
• 1:02:06
  OK to argue. We're all on the same team.
• 1:02:07
  We're all trying to make it better, but we're going to have
• 1:02:09
  different opinions. And we those opinions different
• 1:02:11
  opinions to be celebrated if you're not ridiculed they should
• 1:02:15
  be celebrated but you have to have an environment in which you
• 1:02:18
  can do that and and it's crazy man the drivers that that say
• 1:02:23
  the least like if you listen to them like great point that's a
• 1:02:29
  great point right there you know and So what what happened in the
• 1:02:32
  past and you know this as well as I do because your brother was
• 1:02:35
  one of them and and I watched so I became one of them.
• 1:02:39
  They were in that trailer. They were in that NASCAR trailer
• 1:02:42
  every damn week. Given their opinion every week.
• 1:02:46
  And I watched that and I said I'm gonna do that too.
• 1:02:49
  And yeah I'm I'm like I'm going that damn trailer and and and
• 1:02:54
  because if I don't no one's going to know what I think.
• 1:02:57
  Yeah. I want to be represented.
• 1:02:59
  And so that's where it was. I mean hell you remember we used
• 1:03:04
  to on a rain delay. We used to we we we'd look to
• 1:03:06
  see if Earnhardt came out of the dam now.
• 1:03:08
  Yeah, yeah, 'cause he was always in there.
• 1:03:10
  Right, like. Well, we're going to go back.
• 1:03:14
  Earnhardt, come out of the trailer.
• 1:03:16
  You know, you bring up a good point.
• 1:03:17
  I don't want to belabor this. I just smoke coming out of the
• 1:03:20
  smokestack with the. Yeah.
• 1:03:22
  Hey, I heard, I heard plenty of conversation that Earnhardt
• 1:03:27
  controlled 75% of the fan base. If you want NASCAR to fail,
• 1:03:31
  we'll just tell Earnhardt to say something bad and and that's
• 1:03:34
  controversial right there. But you know what?
• 1:03:36
  Really. I I mean this loving.
• 1:03:39
  When you look at the history of NASCAR, you know they hired
• 1:03:43
  NASCAR cup crew chiefs, whether it was Gary Nelson and now they
• 1:03:47
  got, you know, David Greene and Chad Little.
• 1:03:51
  So sometimes, you know, maybe the sport wants to go, no, we
• 1:03:55
  don't need any racing people. But here, if you look at the
• 1:03:59
  inside workings of the NASCAR business model today, you got
• 1:04:04
  Chad Little, who's a major player and, you know, David
• 1:04:08
  Greens, you know, on pit Rd. checking safety or whatever job
• 1:04:12
  he's got now. But Elton Sawyer.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah. Oh, my God.
• 1:04:16
  What am I think Elton Sawyer, Great.
• 1:04:18
  Me and you raced with him. Elton Sawyer, thank you for
• 1:04:21
  reminding me of that, Scott. Miller, I mean, there's a lot of
• 1:04:24
  them. Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  So we, we do make our case right there.
• 1:04:28
  And you know it. It benefits the sport, the
• 1:04:32
  business model saying, hey, the drivers are saying this, so
• 1:04:35
  maybe we do this, it'd be a better race at Phoenix.
• 1:04:38
  Maybe they'll be able to get side by side or yeah.
• 1:04:41
  So good stuff, Jeff, and and thank you for being the
• 1:04:45
  spokesperson for that. I don't think many people talk
• 1:04:48
  about it that much. Good job there.
• 1:04:51
  So OK, man, I get my butt chewed out if I don't ask you this
• 1:04:55
  question. You're going.
• 1:04:59
  To sell your butt out. Myself, You're three of me.
• 1:05:05
  What are you doing? Can't you see I'm kicking my
• 1:05:07
  ass? So Dale Earnhardt Junior and you
• 1:05:15
  appear like you are two little brothers.
• 1:05:19
  You guys are locked at the hip and I can see it from afar.
• 1:05:24
  It seems like you guys just have fun.
• 1:05:27
  You have your mic, you're you're somewhere doing TV and you're in
• 1:05:31
  a corner. Turn one or two somewhere.
• 1:05:34
  Tell me about your relationship with with Dale Junior.
• 1:05:38
  Yeah, so it's, you know, it's, it's, it's funny, Kenny, like
• 1:05:41
  you're in the middle of the sport, but you don't.
• 1:05:44
  I didn't know anybody Like I don't know.
• 1:05:47
  I guess I'm an ass I didn't want to know anybody you know like
• 1:05:50
  you know it's it's your competitor like it's you know we
• 1:05:54
  might go drink a beer like, but but so post driving career I've
• 1:05:59
  gotten to know people right. So Steve Letart, you know, I I,
• 1:06:05
  I knew I was being hired and I knew he was being hired.
• 1:06:08
  I walked up to him in the garage and I then I maybe spoke 100
• 1:06:11
  words to him my whole life. And I'm like I hear we're
• 1:06:13
  working together in a few years and he's like hey shut up.
• 1:06:15
  Shut up. Like right.
• 1:06:18
  So so you know and and and he's become one of my dear friends
• 1:06:24
  and Dale Junior the same way like like I didn't really know
• 1:06:29
  those guys and and when when Dale Junior said hey I want to
• 1:06:35
  do TV you know our bosses are like hey we'd like to get him
• 1:06:39
  and you know Steve and I put the full court press on like we
• 1:06:42
  wanted him and and and we wanted him because he loves racing
• 1:06:48
  right. I didn't.
• 1:06:49
  Know, boy, he really does I. Didn't know a damn thing about
• 1:06:51
  any of that. I just knew that he loved racing
• 1:06:53
  and he really wanted to do it and he's, you know, the biggest
• 1:06:57
  name in the sport and like let's let's he's good.
• 1:07:00
  It's good for the sport to have him involved like let's do it
• 1:07:02
  And so you know we we we ended up getting it done and and then
• 1:07:07
  you know now like oh crap what do we do now We got this guy
• 1:07:10
  what's he going to do you know and he's come in and just works.
• 1:07:13
  I mean he he doesn't have to you know he he he's Dale Junior he
• 1:07:18
  do whatever he wants to do and he comes in and he just he works
• 1:07:22
  hard he prepares he he's committed and and we mess around
• 1:07:28
  with you know how do we how do we utilize him with us what do
• 1:07:32
  we do. And you know we just through
• 1:07:35
  time we ended up just putting he and I in a booth together and
• 1:07:39
  and it just I don't know it just works and and we have a good
• 1:07:45
  time we just we it's it's when I leave my house going to the
• 1:07:50
  racetrack. I don't have to do it.
• 1:07:52
  Yeah I want to do it it's fun and and you know we we take it
• 1:07:57
  seriously but at the same time we have a good time we have fun
• 1:08:00
  it's watch it it's it's we're not we're not curing world
• 1:08:03
  hunger. Yeah, well, you know, we had
• 1:08:05
  Dale Junior on Kenny conversation and the funniest
• 1:08:09
  thing you ever said. I talked to him about TV.
• 1:08:11
  He said, Man, NBC had me go cover a horse race.
• 1:08:16
  I don't know shit about horses. No, I it was it was light
• 1:08:22
  hearted. So we're coming to the end here.
• 1:08:25
  I ask every race car driver or people that are in the industry
• 1:08:30
  and this is how we end Kenny conversation and I always warn
• 1:08:33
  everybody don't get yourself in trouble because Kenny
• 1:08:36
  conversation is is good it it it's good for the sport.
• 1:08:41
  So your opinion on NASCAR right now, NASCAR today?
• 1:08:48
  So look I, I, I have AI have a real insider view of it.
• 1:08:52
  You know because of the the drivers Advisory Council you
• 1:08:55
  know my kids drives a Cup car. I'm involved.
• 1:08:58
  I, you know I'm I'm heavily involved.
• 1:09:01
  Obviously I work with what I do with NBC like you know I I have
• 1:09:06
  a super inside look at it and I have tons of optimism about
• 1:09:13
  where this sport the effort being put in to making this
• 1:09:17
  sport the best it's ever been and we're we're it.
• 1:09:22
  You're never going to if somebody likes something the way
• 1:09:26
  it was if somebody liked the NBA in the 80s you're not going to
• 1:09:28
  make it the 80s, right. You're not going to do it and
• 1:09:32
  and but in my eyes if you look at our mile and a half racing
• 1:09:37
  it's the best we've ever had. I mean you think about think
• 1:09:41
  about where we were right. So we built all these mile and a
• 1:09:44
  half race tracks and then we went, oh shit, what we do like
• 1:09:47
  the race is not good. Too many of them.
• 1:09:50
  So now the mile and a half racing is really, really good
• 1:09:54
  and the short track racing has not been as good.
• 1:09:56
  So let's fix the short track racing.
• 1:09:59
  Like let's don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
• 1:10:01
  Like we got this part really good.
• 1:10:03
  Like this mile and a half stuff is really good. the Super
• 1:10:05
  Speedway racing is really good. How do we fix the short tracks,
• 1:10:08
  right? And if we can do that then we
• 1:10:12
  the product on track is is good really good and and that part of
• 1:10:20
  it that part of it to me is the is the essence of the sport
• 1:10:25
  right is the is is the on track performance.
• 1:10:30
  We've got to build. We got to have more household
• 1:10:33
  names. We got to have more people that
• 1:10:36
  know these race car drivers. That's what we have to do.
• 1:10:39
  We got to find doing that and and and you could put 100 people
• 1:10:47
  in this renters room and talk about why we don't have more
• 1:10:50
  household names and you have 100 different opinions.
• 1:10:53
  Right. And and it's a complicated
• 1:10:55
  thing. It's it's but but at the end of
• 1:10:58
  the day we have to have more household names these cup
• 1:11:02
  drivers. People have to know who they
• 1:11:04
  are. The way they knew.
• 1:11:06
  The way they knew Rusty. The way they knew Mark.
• 1:11:08
  The way they knew Dell, the way they knew all these guys, right.
• 1:11:12
  They do. They were household names and
• 1:11:14
  and that's what we got to get back to.
• 1:11:17
  And and what that formula is, is very difficult.
• 1:11:20
  And if somebody, if somebody can tell you tell you exactly they
• 1:11:24
  know the way to fix it there that maybe they think that but
• 1:11:27
  it's there really is not one answer.
• 1:11:29
  You know I tell people this all the time.
• 1:11:31
  You know Bell bottom jeans were badass for a while man.
• 1:11:33
  I know you had a pair, right? Yeah.
• 1:11:35
  Right. Wear them anymore, right?
• 1:11:38
  Right. You know, I think, I think, oh,
• 1:11:44
  Kyle Larson, I I hate to bring it up again, but, you know, I
• 1:11:47
  yelled this from the top of the mountains about two weeks ago.
• 1:11:50
  Kyle Larson won the Cup championship.
• 1:11:53
  And I'm repeating myself right now, but it's it's worth doing
• 1:11:56
  because I don't know if you remember it, Kyle Larson said.
• 1:11:59
  Kyle Larson, you won the championship.
• 1:12:02
  How has this changed your life? He says it hasn't done anything.
• 1:12:06
  Nobody does even know who I am. And I think you know what you
• 1:12:10
  just said makes me happy because I believe you're inside the
• 1:12:14
  sport and it makes me happy that they know it and they're
• 1:12:17
  addressing it. OK, second thing out of three
• 1:12:21
  your opinion on the new next Gen. car.
• 1:12:24
  We know this is a game changer. It's a complete different race
• 1:12:28
  car. What is your opinion on it?
• 1:12:30
  You know I think it's given some, I think it's given some
• 1:12:32
  teams a chance that they wouldn't had a chance otherwise.
• 1:12:37
  You know like if you look at you look at front row if you look at
• 1:12:41
  what you know what they did the last couple years the resurgence
• 1:12:46
  of of Roush. You know I I think that those
• 1:12:49
  things the new car has been a big part of that and and I'd
• 1:12:54
  like to think that that will continue.
• 1:12:58
  It's it's it I understand why it's controversial.
• 1:13:00
  I understand why some people don't like it, but I do think
• 1:13:03
  long term it it's the sport had to have something change.
• 1:13:06
  You can't have this. You can't have these endless
• 1:13:08
  budgets that create the situation.
• 1:13:11
  You hey, if you want to see it, watch an F1 race on Sunday and
• 1:13:14
  then look, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it.
• 1:13:15
  Some people love F1 racing. I particularly not that fond of
• 1:13:19
  it because it's not it's not very competitive to watch.
• 1:13:21
  I think it's a it's an art, it's it's it's amazing what they do
• 1:13:26
  and I have a ton of respect for it.
• 1:13:28
  I prefer to watch a race that's closer.
• 1:13:30
  That's just me and I think most NASCAR fans are that way and I
• 1:13:33
  think that this car gives us long term the better opportunity
• 1:13:37
  to have close racing and and and you man, it's an arms race you
• 1:13:42
  you were part of it. You you know how it worked.
• 1:13:44
  You know how it worked. It was an arms race and and
• 1:13:47
  that's not in my opinion that's not in the best interest we used
• 1:13:51
  to have. This is what's so funny.
• 1:13:52
  Michael Walter said this years ago and he was 100% right.
• 1:13:56
  You know you had a Laughlin car right?
• 1:13:59
  Or a Hopkins car. I used to go to Ronnie Hopkins
• 1:14:01
  shop to to go pick up race cars. When I drove the 99 car for for
• 1:14:06
  for Jack Rouse, he was building our chassis.
• 1:14:09
  I went down there work with Ronnie.
• 1:14:10
  This is how I want my cars built.
• 1:14:12
  Rusty's cars were on the surface plate being built right there.
• 1:14:15
  I can walk right up to it. That's Rusty Wallace's car.
• 1:14:19
  It it was the same as mine. It had the same A frames, it had
• 1:14:23
  the same spindles. It had the same that made you
• 1:14:26
  feel. Good.
• 1:14:28
  Right. I mean, we went when racing was
• 1:14:32
  its best, when we had the most popular NASCAR ever was.
• 1:14:36
  We had spec race cars more than what we had four years ago and
• 1:14:42
  people don't believe that. But it's true.
• 1:14:44
  I could walk and I could look at Rusty's car.
• 1:14:47
  I and and I could tell you by looking at the upper control arm
• 1:14:52
  how much camber he had in the car.
• 1:14:53
  I can tell how much caster he had it within a degree, right?
• 1:14:57
  I mean. They were spec.
• 1:14:59
  We had the same truck in arms. We had the same track bar like
• 1:15:03
  it it. We had more spec cars then than
• 1:15:08
  we did five years ago. What?
• 1:15:09
  What was the set up at the the joke?
• 1:15:11
  But it was so true. You pull into Charlotte 1914,
• 1:15:16
  three 5400. Nine and a Half 10 1/2.
• 1:15:20
  Yeah, yeah, Track bar, track bar.
• 1:15:23
  And so you know. 49% wedge. And 51 1/2 percent those ways.
• 1:15:29
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good stuff.
• 1:15:32
  And and and you, you, you know, so you think about it when our
• 1:15:36
  sport was the best it ever was. Good point.
• 1:15:40
  That's what it was. Good point.
• 1:15:42
  And so when people say, well, this new cars, everybody got the
• 1:15:45
  same. We used to have the same
• 1:15:46
  everybody. Used to be the.
• 1:15:48
  Same we we changed that when we started building our own
• 1:15:51
  chassis. Yeah.
• 1:15:52
  We changed it, yeah. It wasn't like that.
• 1:15:56
  And so and so in my eyes, in my eyes, we're going back more to
• 1:16:02
  how it was when it was this most successful.
• 1:16:07
  We're not. We're not moving this way
• 1:16:10
  without understanding what happened in the past.
• 1:16:12
  If you don't understand history, your future is going to be
• 1:16:15
  screwed up. I said this last night.
• 1:16:18
  History. I I didn't like history when I
• 1:16:20
  was a when I was a kid. But if you understand it now,
• 1:16:23
  you need to write a book on connecting the dots you have
• 1:16:26
  taught me. You have reminded me more today
• 1:16:30
  than I ever thought would happen because the coil mining, the
• 1:16:34
  lower the front end and the Hans, you know, the full
• 1:16:38
  containment see. And you're dead on on this
• 1:16:41
  subject right there. Yeah.
• 1:16:43
  OK. So last but not least, your
• 1:16:47
  opinion on how NASCAR is officiating the fines, which we
• 1:16:52
  have saw some big fines, penalties, how we're going
• 1:16:57
  through tech inspection today. So I so Emmanuel Zervakis.
• 1:17:06
  Oh, what a name. He told me, he told me years
• 1:17:13
  ago, if you don't make someone do the right thing, they never
• 1:17:16
  will. Yeah, and.
• 1:17:19
  And I believe that. I believe that in in Motorsports
• 1:17:25
  because there's so many things out there that you can touch.
• 1:17:32
  Tom Brady, the whirlwind ape shit for how many weeks?
• 1:17:35
  How many months? Because Tom Brady might have
• 1:17:37
  overplayed the ball or whatever the hell he did a race car.
• 1:17:41
  Imagine all of the parts that a race car has on it in which you
• 1:17:45
  could do whatever it is that Tom Brady supposedly did with his
• 1:17:48
  football. Imagine that.
• 1:17:50
  Yeah. So if you don't have strict
• 1:17:54
  rules that are strictly enforced, it will get away from
• 1:17:58
  you. And and if, if, if NASCAR, if
• 1:18:03
  NASCAR could put the genie back in the bottle from and and go
• 1:18:07
  back in time to 1997 and say OK, you're going to run Ronnie
• 1:18:13
  Hopkins chassis or you're going to run Laughlin chassis, you can
• 1:18:16
  run this route in or those struck arms, which is what we
• 1:18:18
  already had, right? You're right, that's what would
• 1:18:24
  have been the right thing to do. But the only way to make any of
• 1:18:26
  that work is to have rules that are strictly enforced.
• 1:18:31
  And if you don't hold people accountable, they won't do the
• 1:18:35
  right thing. Competitors will screw it up.
• 1:18:38
  Because we're we don't care. We don't care.
• 1:18:40
  About me. So I don't care.
• 1:18:43
  Why do I care? I mean, people tell me that one
• 1:18:45
  of the worst races in the history was was LED every lap in
• 1:18:48
  New Hampshire. I thought it was awesome.
• 1:18:50
  Yeah, like we'll do it again and and and, but, but, you know,
• 1:18:53
  race fans didn't like that. I don't blame them.
• 1:18:55
  Maybe I wouldn't have liked it either.
• 1:18:56
  But hell, I didn't care. Why should I care?
• 1:18:59
  So, so you have to have rules and you have to enforce them.
• 1:19:03
  Look I think, I think the. I think the fighting stuff is
• 1:19:07
  stupid. I don't.
• 1:19:08
  I don't think that, you know we don't need that crap.
• 1:19:11
  Two drivers want to get in each other's face and have a
• 1:19:12
  conversation. That's fine.
• 1:19:14
  But I I I fighting and shoving and I I just, I I we don't need
• 1:19:18
  that. That that I I don't.
• 1:19:19
  I just don't think it's necessary.
• 1:19:21
  So I wish we'd put a stop to that and yeah, but but I I'm,
• 1:19:27
  I'm, I'm, I'm a I'm a big penalty.
• 1:19:29
  I'm a big penalty, big fine guy. I'm OK with it.
• 1:19:32
  Well, listen, I've had a wonderful time talking to you
• 1:19:36
  and I want to remind everybody right now that we are in podcast
• 1:19:39
  form. We're in podcast form, so you
• 1:19:42
  can listen to Jeff Burton on your way to work.
• 1:19:45
  You can listen to Jeff on the way home because boy, there sure
• 1:19:49
  is some good stuff right Here we are on iTunes and Spotify.
• 1:19:55
  Jeff Burton, my long time friend.
• 1:19:58
  God, we were just children. And congratulations on all your
• 1:20:03
  success. You're as famous right now or
• 1:20:06
  you're as relative right now as you ever were.
• 1:20:08
  So thank you for being on Kenny conversation.
• 1:20:11
  Thank you, Kenny. It's a good time, as always.
• 1:20:14
  All right, everybody. Kenny, conversation just keeps
• 1:20:16
  on rolling. We have them lined up and
• 1:20:20
  holiday season is here. And the next one coming up, you
• 1:20:23
  don't know who it's going to be. It's going to be Max Pappas,
• 1:20:26
  Rico Abreu, Rick Mast. All right.
• 1:20:30
  Until next time. See you later everyone.