Latest / The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson / Heartfelt Leadership for Team Motivation and Growth with Karen Shepherd

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Heartfelt Leadership for Team Motivation and Growth with Karen Shepherd · The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson

• 0:36
  Jennifer Johnson: A motivational mindset is a belief that you can achieve your goals and that you're willing to put in the work to actually achieve them.
• 0:42
  Jennifer Johnson: It's a positive and growth-oriented mindset that helps you stay focused and motivated even when the things get tough.
• 0:49
  Jennifer Johnson: Now, motivation isn't always easy and it can be challenging, especially when things are tough.
• 0:54
  Jennifer Johnson: However, it's important to remember that motivation is a choice.
• 0:57
  Jennifer Johnson: You can choose to be motivated even when you don't feel like it, and motivation is a choice.
• 1:02
  Jennifer Johnson: You can choose to be motivated even when you don't feel like it, and motivation is contagious.
• 1:03
  Jennifer Johnson: Surrounding yourself with positive and motivating people can help you stay motivated yourself, and it can be considered a skill.
• 1:10
  Jennifer Johnson: Actually, it's a skill that can be learned and developed.
• 1:13
  Jennifer Johnson: The more you practice being motivated, the easier it's going to become.
• 1:17
  Jennifer Johnson: Developing a motivational mindset is essential for success in all areas of life.
• 1:21
  Jennifer Johnson: Today, we're going to become.
• 1:21
  Jennifer Johnson: Developing a motivational mindset is essential for success in all areas of life.
• 1:22
  Jennifer Johnson: Today, we're going to sit down and talk with an expert in HR, where we're talking about how you can actually motivate your team and how that looks to the overall effectiveness of your organization.
• 1:35
  Jennifer Johnson: So let's get started.
• 1:38
  Jennifer Johnson: Today, we welcome into the studio author and and HR expert, karen Shepard.
• 1:44
  Jennifer Johnson: I love saying author, me too, I love hearing it.
• 1:47
  Jennifer Johnson: So Karen is the author of the book Lead with Love, which you'll be able to see on the video here shortly Lead with Love 10 Heart-Centered Strategies to Build a More Profitable Business, and she has over 15 years of experience in HR and is always described as genuine, passionate and creative by her peers.
• 2:07
  Jennifer Johnson: She's the partner that you want to take your business to the next level.
• 2:11
  Jennifer Johnson: She wants to work together with you to change the why not you to why not us.
• 2:16
  Jennifer Johnson: Welcome into the studio.
• 2:19
  Karen Shepherd: Hello, this is so fun to be back again with you.
• 2:23
  Jennifer Johnson: Thank you, we had you on last season and since last season you've become an author of your fabulous book.
• 2:28
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes, and that I mean I've been.
• 2:30
  Jennifer Johnson: You know, we've been authors Together.
• 2:33
  Jennifer Johnson: We kind of hit the scene together, and it's been exhilarating, hasn't it?
• 2:36
  Karen Shepherd: Surreal, I keep pinching myself.
• 2:38
  Karen Shepherd: Have I woken up from my dream?
• 2:42
  Jennifer Johnson: It wasn't a dream all along my dear.
• 2:44
  Jennifer Johnson: I know Reality.
• 2:47
  Karen Shepherd: No, but sharing this stage with another leader who exemplifies everything that I have been talking about in my book is a beautiful thing.
• 2:57
  Jennifer Johnson: Well, and I could not agree more.
• 2:59
  Jennifer Johnson: And if you've not gotten her book, you can get it on Amazon, correct?
• 3:03
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, amazon or my website, if you want an autograph copy.
• 3:07
  Jennifer Johnson: And what is your website just at the top here, so we can.
• 3:10
  Karen Shepherd: Sure wwwhrbykarencom.
• 3:16
  Jennifer Johnson: Oh, that is awesome and this is so perfect for our topic today, because I know you have some stuff in your book that that speaks to this.
• 3:22
  Jennifer Johnson: But motivating our teams I know a lot of times it comes from the top up, right, or is that not true.
• 3:31
  Karen Shepherd: You mean top down.
• 3:32
  Jennifer Johnson: I mean top down.
• 3:33
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, definitely Top down.
• 3:34
  Karen Shepherd: You know, she just gave me was like what are you talking about, lady?
• 3:37
  Jennifer Johnson: You know the chair that she just gave me was like what are you talking about, lady?
• 3:41
  Jennifer Johnson: The top down Just keeping it real, Karen, I'm sorry I got confused myself for a minute.
• 3:50
  Jennifer Johnson: I clearly walked into this confused, but what are we?
• 3:55
  Jennifer Johnson: I mean, it's got to start from the top right.
• 4:02
  Karen Shepherd: So do you remember playing the game as a kid called follow the leader?
• 4:05
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, okay.
• 4:06
  Karen Shepherd: Well, it never stops being played, right, what happens at the top, everyone follows.
• 4:12
  Karen Shepherd: And when I worked with my boss for 21 years in the legal industry worked with my boss for 21 years in the legal industry she led with the compassion, empathy and heart I mean.
• 4:27
  Karen Shepherd: Think about what happens to an employee's life cycle.
• 4:31
  Karen Shepherd: A lot happened in 21 years.
• 4:33
  Karen Shepherd: My poor boss had to deal with me single, married, pregnant, single mom, because even when I was married, my ex-husband was in the military and I had to play single mom.
• 4:50
  Karen Shepherd: And then there was the divorce and being single again.
• 4:54
  Karen Shepherd: So there's always this life cycle that an employee has and a leader has two choices when dealing with that.
• 5:05
  Karen Shepherd: They could either get frustrated or they can allow flexibility and lead with compassion, empathy and heart, which I defined as the heart-centered approach.
• 5:17
  Karen Shepherd: Which I defined as the heart-centered approach.
• 5:20
  Jennifer Johnson: And I like that because it says what it is that you're laying out.
• 5:24
  Jennifer Johnson: It defines a strategy.
• 5:27
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, and you could apply this strategy.
• 5:31
  Karen Shepherd: I don't care if it's motivating an employee, inspiring an employee working a conflict with an employee.
• 5:40
  Karen Shepherd: It is all about leading with compassion, empathy and heart, because when you bring that magic of the heart-centered approach, you allow your employee to be an adult, manage their own pace, their own speed, their own accountability.
• 6:05
  Karen Shepherd: Okay, that is how you motivate by empowering.
• 6:12
  Jennifer Johnson: Let's talk about that.
• 6:12
  Jennifer Johnson: How can you, okay, if you're motivating by empowerment?
• 6:17
  Jennifer Johnson: How, how does that look?
• 6:19
  Jennifer Johnson: I, you know, give me an example of at work, okay.
• 6:24
  Karen Shepherd: So empowering the employee.
• 6:26
  Karen Shepherd: Let's say they made a mistake in something.
• 6:30
  Karen Shepherd: Employees make mistakes.
• 6:31
  Karen Shepherd: We all do.
• 6:33
  Karen Shepherd: We all do, right, I mean.
• 6:35
  Karen Shepherd: But when, when an employee leader sometimes tend to get a little frustrated and instead of getting frustrated, you know, ask the question why?
• 6:48
  Karen Shepherd: Why did the mistake happen?
• 6:51
  Karen Shepherd: During my presentation, some of my leadership presentations, I give an example of a driver going to a client to deliver something and his tire blew.
• 7:05
  Karen Shepherd: And the company has an on-time reputation, so he wasn't on time.
• 7:13
  Karen Shepherd: So the employee whose fault really was that Okay, was it because he wasn't trained properly?
• 7:24
  Jennifer Johnson: No, okay.
• 7:25
  Karen Shepherd: To make sure the car got inspected and the tires checked regularly.
• 7:33
  Karen Shepherd: Did he not know, you know, or did he just go over a tire I mean life or over a nail?
• 7:41
  Karen Shepherd: Life happens and we just have to learn to what's in our control and what's out of our control.
• 7:51
  Jennifer Johnson: Isn't there that circle?
• 7:53
  Jennifer Johnson: There's a circle of like this is in my control.
• 7:55
  Jennifer Johnson: This is out of my control.
• 7:57
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, I deliver that during the drum to your own heartbeat presentation that I do.
• 8:05
  Karen Shepherd: It is.
• 8:06
  Karen Shepherd: They're really the out.
• 8:09
  Karen Shepherd: That's an outside thing we cannot control, so why be frustrated and ruin your whole?
• 8:15
  Jennifer Johnson: day?
• 8:16
  Jennifer Johnson: Right, exactly so.
• 8:17
  Jennifer Johnson: Empowering your employees is one way to motivate.
• 8:21
  Jennifer Johnson: What other ways can we motivate our employees to do better at work, or to maybe it's do more numbers, or to be more positive, or to encourage other team?
• 8:33
  Karen Shepherd: members.
• 8:33
  Karen Shepherd: So it goes with the accountability piece that.
• 8:37
  Karen Shepherd: I mentioned so a lot of times.
• 8:40
  Karen Shepherd: Our employees.
• 8:42
  Karen Shepherd: They may make a mistake and we just correct it.
• 8:45
  Jennifer Johnson: Of course.
• 8:45
  Jennifer Johnson: And no one learns from that right, no one learns from that.
• 8:48
  Karen Shepherd: You cannot empower your employees if you continue to pick up their messes.
• 8:56
  Jennifer Johnson: You can't empower when you enable.
• 8:57
  Jennifer Johnson: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 9:01
  Jennifer Johnson: I'm the enabler mom, so I understand.
• 9:04
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes.
• 9:08
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, it's the truth.
• 9:09
  Karen Shepherd: No one can learn unless they make a mistake.
• 9:13
  Karen Shepherd: I don't make mistakes.
• 9:15
  Karen Shepherd: I have lessons learned and that's all it is.
• 9:19
  Karen Shepherd: I'll never forget.
• 9:22
  Karen Shepherd: You know how many times I had to give a piece of paper back to my assistant.
• 9:31
  Karen Shepherd: Right, this needs to be changed, and it might have just been one word, but I'm not going to change it, because she needs to see it and recognize it.
• 9:42
  Karen Shepherd: That's hard, it is so hard, so hard.
• 9:44
  Karen Shepherd: But when you, when you do it compassionately, then you just have to.
• 9:53
  Karen Shepherd: You know, when you lead that way it may be hard, but you're doing it with a hug, right?
• 10:00
  Karen Shepherd: It's like I'm just showing you a lot of time.
• 10:03
  Karen Shepherd: You know, I remember one time I had to ask my employee, you know, where is the miscommunication?
• 10:10
  Karen Shepherd: You just have to be curious and ask questions.
• 10:14
  Karen Shepherd: It is so important to be curious and ask questions when the miscommunication is.
• 10:21
  Karen Shepherd: How can I do better?
• 10:23
  Karen Shepherd: Right, it is because it's never about us, it's about the other person.
• 10:29
  Karen Shepherd: Is there a perception that's off?
• 10:31
  Karen Shepherd: Is there a communication barrier?
• 10:34
  Karen Shepherd: Are they really not understanding?
• 10:37
  Karen Shepherd: And if you continue to ask the questions, you open up an environment that is safe, that allows them to come ask questions.
• 10:51
  Karen Shepherd: There's too often times the reason why employees continue maybe to make a mistake is because they're not in a safe environment.
• 11:01
  Karen Shepherd: Yeah, that would make sense.
• 11:04
  Karen Shepherd: Yeah, because they don't want to come and ask a question, because then they may have the perception that my leader, my manager, my supervisor, the boss man, he's going to think I'm dumb that I'm stupid, but there's a learning process.
• 11:25
  Jennifer Johnson: But again, this all kind of ties back to the.
• 13:54
  Jennifer Johnson: It starts at the top the culture that is, which is was something I wanted to talk about.
• 13:59
  Jennifer Johnson: Well, we're already talking about it.
• 14:00
  Jennifer Johnson: It's it's the culture that you create when you're at the top that infiltrates the entire business.
• 14:08
  Karen Shepherd: It's a ripple down effect, total ripple effect.
• 14:11
  Karen Shepherd: You know if, uh, total ripple effect.
• 14:14
  Karen Shepherd: You know if I was going to ask you, can I say that word?
• 14:17
  Jennifer Johnson: What.
• 14:18
  Karen Shepherd: That I was going to call my book.
• 14:23
  Jennifer Johnson: Sure Brace yourself.
• 14:29
  Karen Shepherd: But yes, you can, because it's important here, it's funny, so I really wanted to call the title of my book Don't Be an Asshole.
• 14:38
  Karen Shepherd: You know, I mean it basically.
• 14:40
  Karen Shepherd: Essentially that's it, but it doesn't fit my brand right.
• 14:48
  Karen Shepherd: Or you, it doesn't fit you right, because you know, heart centered is more.
• 14:50
  Karen Shepherd: Karen.
• 14:51
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, I mean, it really is.
• 14:51
  Karen Shepherd: However, I do have my boundaries and I will tell you it really is.
• 14:53
  Karen Shepherd: However, I do have my boundaries and I will tell you you will.
• 14:55
  Karen Shepherd: I don't have, I'm not uncomfortable saying you've crossed the boundary and I don't value you anymore and you're being disrespectful at this point, and I don't.
• 15:08
  Karen Shepherd: We only have so many minutes and so many moments.
• 15:11
  Karen Shepherd: Right, every minute is a moment and we have a choice on every one of those moments.
• 15:19
  Karen Shepherd: So how do you want?
• 15:21
  Karen Shepherd: I have a quote that I say in my book that I really want to share.
• 15:28
  Karen Shepherd: It's from Maya Angelou.
• 15:29
  Karen Shepherd: She is one of my favorites that I quote a lot, and my favorite quote is people will forget what you said, People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.
• 15:47
  Karen Shepherd: That's so true.
• 15:48
  Karen Shepherd: And let me tell you my boss of 21 years, no matter how many mistakes I made, no matter how many times I had to be out of the office because of my daughter, and no matter how many times I wasn't really present because I was preoccupied about other things, she took the time to talk to me and she always, always made me feel human and I have a definition of human, and that's leading with that heart-centered approach.
• 16:23
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, everything is leading with it.
• 16:25
  Karen Shepherd: So 21 years ago, I wasn't thinking heart-centered approach?
• 16:28
  Jennifer Johnson: No, of course you weren't.
• 16:29
  Jennifer Johnson: I didn't even know what that was.
• 16:31
  Karen Shepherd: As a matter of fact, I was left almost every HR position I've had, because I'll never forget my first boss was like there's this line, we cannot be friends with the other people.
• 16:49
  Karen Shepherd: And it's like, why not the other side, the other side?
• 16:52
  Karen Shepherd: Why not the other side, the other side?
• 16:54
  Karen Shepherd: You know why not?
• 16:54
  Karen Shepherd: We have to build those relationships, because the relationships we build also empower our employees to say, oh look, I'm human too, right, you know?
• 17:06
  Karen Shepherd: Just because you know, I truly believe that there is no organizational chart chart.
• 17:18
  Karen Shepherd: The only reason why an organizational chart really should exist is to help employees understand who they need to talk to.
• 17:23
  Karen Shepherd: But it's not because and should not be ever perceived that someone higher on the chain of the organizational chart is more important, because I'm going to tell you, the receptionist, the janitors, they are the most important people on that organizational chart.
• 17:42
  Karen Shepherd: Your phones wouldn't get answered, your place would not be clean if it wasn't for them.
• 17:48
  Karen Shepherd: So I do have a paperclip story you want me to share.
• 17:51
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes, we'll share that as soon as we come back from break paperclip story, do you?
• 17:54
  Karen Shepherd: want me to share?
• 17:54
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, we'll share that as soon as we come back from break.
• 17:56
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes, is your closet overflowing, or maybe your kids' closets are as well, or maybe you just want to redecorate your house.
• 18:01
  Jennifer Johnson: If you're wondering what to do with all that stuff that you've accumulated, bring it all to True Fashionistas, or even ship it to them for free.
• 18:08
  Jennifer Johnson: They'll sell your unwanted items for you, and all you have to do is sit back and collect your money.
• 18:13
  Jennifer Johnson: You can reach out to them online at truefashionistascom.
• 18:17
  Jennifer Johnson: Come into the store or check them out on Facebook or Instagram, and that's truefashionistascom.
• 18:22
  Jennifer Johnson: All right, friends, we are back in studio with Karen Shepard.
• 18:26
  Jennifer Johnson: She's an author and HR expert, and she's going to share with us the paperclip story.
• 18:32
  Karen Shepherd: Is that what it's called?
• 18:32
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, the paperclip story.
• 18:34
  Karen Shepherd: I learned this very early on in my HR career.
• 18:37
  Jennifer Johnson: I'm leaning in yes.
• 18:38
  Karen Shepherd: So a CEO was having a meeting with all his top leaders and he was standing outside his office looking at his notes and his vice president is coming down the hallway and he notices, he stops and he looks down, sees something and then keeps walking and says hello and good morning to me.
• 19:08
  Karen Shepherd: And he proceeded to say that he'll see him in the boardroom.
• 19:13
  Karen Shepherd: So, out of curiosity, the CEO goes over to see what he was looking at and it was a paperclip.
• 19:21
  Karen Shepherd: And he goes to the boardroom, he calls his vice president out and he says while we are meeting today, I want you to clean out your office.
• 19:33
  Karen Shepherd: Whoa, and he goes why?
• 19:41
  Karen Shepherd: Because this is a home.
• 20:02
  Karen Shepherd: And why didn't you pick up the paperclip?
• 20:03
  Karen Shepherd: And he said you know so no one should ever feel where they are in the organizational chart, that they are too big for their britches, that they can't clean their house.
• 20:07
  Karen Shepherd: Right, I like that.
• 20:09
  Karen Shepherd: That's a great analogy.
• 20:10
  Karen Shepherd: It is one of my favorite lessons learned that I learned right in the beginning, and I recently attended a John Maxwell training and he kept saying the entire four days that I was there, it was nonstop.
• 20:34
  Karen Shepherd: We live in the United States, yet we are so divided, true, and so in my book I wrote you know an acronym to human, and I say just that, I say it just like it is hearts unite, making aspirations nourish.
• 21:03
  Karen Shepherd: We should never be divided, we should always be united.
• 21:05
  Karen Shepherd: We are never in competition, we should always be in collaboration, and that is how we empower each other.
• 21:14
  Karen Shepherd: I love that.
• 21:15
  Jennifer Johnson: Your acronym is great and that kind of leads into my next question.
• 21:21
  Jennifer Johnson: You know, when there is conflict or when there's challenges or setbacks, people's propensity to be motivated, I you know, goes down like oh well, we just just you know this is a setback or this is a challenge.
• 21:40
  Jennifer Johnson: How can the leaders take that and change that balance back to the positive from the oh I'm you know I'm feeling heavy.
• 21:49
  Jennifer Johnson: This is, this is just not so great.
• 21:52
  Jennifer Johnson: How can they change that?
• 21:55
  Karen Shepherd: The biggest way is to listen, because nine times out of ten, leaders don't want to listen to the problems, they don't want to listen to the issues going around.
• 22:08
  Karen Shepherd: They push it back on them and they say you deal with it.
• 22:12
  Karen Shepherd: So I got a lot of lessons learned in my very first HR job, and one of the best lessons I learned was never come to me with a problem, always come to me with a solution, but leaders don't even want to hear that, they don't want to take the time.
• 22:34
  Karen Shepherd: Why?
• 22:35
  Karen Shepherd: Why do you think that is Because they have so much on their plate.
• 22:41
  Karen Shepherd: You know, I mean, god gave us two ears and one mouth, and even in the word heart, you see the word ear.
• 22:53
  Karen Shepherd: Oh, you are right.
• 22:56
  Karen Shepherd: Okay, yeah.
• 23:01
  Jennifer Johnson: I'm looking at her book right now.
• 23:02
  Karen Shepherd: I'm like oh yeah, you're right, and we have to learn to listen and stay completely focused, because unless you are completely engaged with the person that you are talking with, you're looking at them, you're not thinking about where else you need to be, you're really truly focused, you're not going to hear and the conflict is just going to continue to build and continue to build, because you just don't want to deal with it and you just have to make the time you have to make the time.
• 23:40
  Jennifer Johnson: And you know, I think a lot of our problems in life in general could be solved by just listening, because people just want to be seen and people want to be heard, and I mean be seen.
• 23:50
  Jennifer Johnson: But here I am Please listen to me kind of seen.
• 23:54
  Jennifer Johnson: People just want to be seen and heard and valued, and valued, Seen, valued and heard.
• 24:01
  Jennifer Johnson: And that goes a long way.
• 24:02
  Jennifer Johnson: I'm having a conversation with you but, yes, I'm not over here checking on my phone, checking my email, doing 10 other things.
• 24:14
  Jennifer Johnson: I'm here looking at you, like you said, giving eye contact, letting them know that they matter, because if I'm over here checking my phone or doing something else, I'm sending you that message that I'm only halfway here with you, Right, exactly.
• 24:24
  Jennifer Johnson: And then why send a message at all?
• 24:25
  Jennifer Johnson: Because that's worse than sending nothing at all.
• 24:27
  Karen Shepherd: Right, right, exactly and there are so many ways to show value that you really care about an employee, but you're not going to know what that employee values until you ask them.
• 24:40
  Karen Shepherd: Because you can't assume that's right, because you know what that means.
• 24:46
  Jennifer Johnson: It leads back to your beginning of what you were going to call your book.
• 24:49
  Jennifer Johnson: That's right.
• 24:51
  Karen Shepherd: Right, that's right.
• 24:52
  Karen Shepherd: So you really have to be present.
• 24:56
  Karen Shepherd: I remember a of weeks ago I got some feedback from someone that was watching me talking with someone and go wow, you are just so present.
• 25:09
  Karen Shepherd: Is there any other way to be?
• 25:12
  Karen Shepherd: I mean, if someone's talking to me or you have to be present you have to be present.
• 25:20
  Karen Shepherd: I can't think.
• 25:20
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, I have a million things on my to-do list right now, but I am definitely having more fun sitting here talking with you, but you know I have a question.
• 25:30
  Jennifer Johnson: So you talk about being and I know it's not, it still relates back to this but being present, like what can you do?
• 25:37
  Jennifer Johnson: Is that a practice that you learned, or is it just how you are, how you are, or or how how can we make ourselves more present when we're talking to someone?
• 25:50
  Karen Shepherd: Well, I don't have an iPhone watch and she's looking at my wrist Is one thing I mean.
• 26:00
  Karen Shepherd: Technology has consumed our lives when we have to learn to self-care and set our own boundaries and know that this is my time with you and I am not interested in anything else.
• 26:21
  Karen Shepherd: I don't care about.
• 26:22
  Karen Shepherd: You know, even if it was at home having dinner with your family, that is dinner with your family.
• 26:29
  Jennifer Johnson: Sacred time.
• 26:30
  Karen Shepherd: It is sacred time.
• 26:31
  Karen Shepherd: Leave the dishes dirty in the sink?
• 26:33
  Karen Shepherd: Oh God, I can't do that.
• 26:34
  Karen Shepherd: Who cares?
• 26:34
  Karen Shepherd: No, yes, you can.
• 26:36
  Karen Shepherd: You can do them in an hour.
• 26:38
  Karen Shepherd: They're not going.
• 26:40
  Karen Shepherd: They're still going to be dirty, but you're not going to get that hour back with your kids.
• 26:44
  Karen Shepherd: Very true to think of it that way.
• 26:46
  Karen Shepherd: Okay, I mean, or that special someone maybe all you have is five minutes with someone.
• 26:53
  Karen Shepherd: Enjoy that five minutes.
• 26:55
  Karen Shepherd: And who cares?
• 26:56
  Karen Shepherd: Because I grew up with no cell phones playing in the streets.
• 27:01
  Karen Shepherd: Going home, when the lights came on, I rode my bike wherever.
• 27:08
  Karen Shepherd: I have that same mentality.
• 27:12
  Karen Shepherd: I feel blessed that I grew up in that situation because it left my spirit free, it left my creative mind, it allowed me to have a heart-centered approach.
• 27:27
  Jennifer Johnson: Who knew, and that's the name of your book Lead with Love.
• 27:30
  Jennifer Johnson: It has been such a great time having you on our conversation today, thank you for having me.
• 27:37
  Jennifer Johnson: It's always wonderful.
• 27:38
  Jennifer Johnson: You are always the brightest smile in the room.
• 27:41
  Jennifer Johnson: Oh, thank you, I will say that If our listeners would like to reach out to you, how can they do that?
• 27:46
  Jennifer Johnson: How can they buy your book?
• 27:48
  Karen Shepherd: Yes, they can either call me, because I am a human optimization, I like the conversation.
• 27:57
  Karen Shepherd: I am a human optimization, I like the conversation.
• 27:59
  Karen Shepherd: 239-776-5919.
• 28:02
  Karen Shepherd: Or you can learn more about me by just going to my website at hrbykarencom, and all my email and phone number and contact information is there, so they can get your book there or on Amazon.
• 28:15
  Jennifer Johnson: Yes, fabulous.
• 28:16
  Jennifer Johnson: Thank you again.
• 28:18
  Jennifer Johnson: Thank you for having me.