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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 4 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news, Savannah Guthrie's mother
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Speaker 1: missing day for what do we know? Tonight, good evening.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
0:18
Speaker 1: Lots happening, lots of moving parts of the search for
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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie joining me in All Star panel. Straight out
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Speaker 1: to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, one hundred detectives
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Speaker 1: from the Sheriff's office and the FBI. Now we are
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Speaker 1: learning a ransom note, possibly the very same ransom note
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Speaker 1: sent to not two, but three news outlets, that being
0:43
Speaker 1: our friends at TMZ, Harvey Levin, KO l D and
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Speaker 1: k g U n okay. Also at this hour, the
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Speaker 1: share of coming out and stating there is no suspect,
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Speaker 1: there is no POI person of interest. But wouldn't you
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Speaker 1: agree everybody that they always say there is no POI though,
1:07
Speaker 1: isn't no suspect because once you say X is a suspect,
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Speaker 1: then X is shrouded in constitutional protections.
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Speaker 2: That said, I choose to believe the sheriff.
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Speaker 1: Dave mac joining me, Dave, what is the latest as
1:20
Speaker 1: we go to air right now, right.
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Speaker 3: Now, Nancy, we have been told that those the ransom
1:25
Speaker 3: notes going to three different locations. We're not being told
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Speaker 3: whether or not they are the same note or if
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Speaker 3: it was three different ones, but the content of the note,
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Speaker 3: one of them anyway, specifically talks about places inside the
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Speaker 3: home of Nancy Guthrie and talks about specific pieces of
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Speaker 3: evidence at the crime scene that would only be known
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Speaker 3: by somebody that was in there at that home. We
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Speaker 3: also know, as you mentioned, one hundred detectives are working
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Speaker 3: on this case right now, plus the FBI, and President
2:00
Speaker 3: Donald Trump has promised even more support to get to Tucson, Arizona,
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Speaker 3: to try to find Nancy Guthrie.
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Speaker 2: You know, I want to look at that note one
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Speaker 2: more time.
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Speaker 1: I'm about to bring in Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter
2:13
Speaker 1: with the US Sun to doctor Bethany Marshall joining me.
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Speaker 1: Let me see Bethany. Bethany renounces like Coalyside, the LA
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Speaker 1: jurisdiction author of deal Breaker. You can see her now
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Speaker 1: on Peacock and you can find her at doctor Bethany
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Speaker 1: Marshall dot com.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, how'd that strike you or else? Or else?
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Speaker 2: That sounds like a fifth grade girl's novel.
2:34
Speaker 1: Do it or else?
2:36
Speaker 2: Or else?
2:36
Speaker 4: What?
2:36
Speaker 5: Well, it's very coercive, it's very menacing and threatening. But
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Speaker 5: if this was a real ransom note Nancy, wouldn't this
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Speaker 5: have been submitted or sent to the family privately? Wouldn't
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Speaker 5: it have been sent earlier, like right after the mother
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Speaker 5: is missing, when the family is completely frantic. The fact
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Speaker 5: that it is sent to TMC and another news agency.
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Speaker 5: He has copycat written all over it to me.
3:03
Speaker 2: Something about it?
3:04
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons is joining me, Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security.
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Speaker 2: What is that?
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Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigative experts. They go all
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Speaker 1: around the world looking for missing people. By the way,
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Speaker 1: former marine and Iraq war veteran, Brian, there's something puero,
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Speaker 1: something juvenile about or else?
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Speaker 2: Who writes that do it or else? That phraseology is
3:34
Speaker 2: bugging me.
3:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there was something notably missing from this alleged
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Speaker 4: ransom note, and that is a proof of life. Right
3:45
Speaker 4: for this ransom note to hold any weight, the author
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Speaker 4: of the note would have to provide some kind of
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Speaker 4: proof of life that that they did have Nancy Guthrie
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Speaker 4: in custody and that she was alive and well. For
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Speaker 4: that note, to have any value.
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Speaker 1: Well, here's another thing, and Jessica sand let me go
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Speaker 1: to Jessica very quickly saying, your investigator, reporter, the us son, Jessica,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us tonight. Jessica, what do
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Speaker 1: you make of the so called ransom note being sent
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Speaker 1: to three outlets and claiming knowledge of what Nancy Guthrie
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Speaker 1: was wearing that at the time she was kidnapped and
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Speaker 1: describing the interior of her home as it was left
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Speaker 1: at the time of the abduction.
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Speaker 6: You know, the Sheriff's Department has been so close to
4:30
Speaker 6: the best as to what information they're giving out to
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Speaker 6: the media, and it's been really interesting to watch. They're
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Speaker 6: doing a great job at talking to us but not
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Speaker 6: saying a lot. And I think that really this random
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Speaker 6: note thing, we don't know if they've previously had a
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Speaker 6: random note that they've discovered that was sent directly to
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Speaker 6: the family, and that who knows. Maybe these people who
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Speaker 6: have abducted her are getting frustrated by the Sheriff's Department
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Speaker 6: not acknowledging them publicly. I mean, that could be a
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Speaker 6: thing that's happening right now. The other thing is and yes,
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Speaker 6: there we have not heard that there's been proof of life. However,
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Speaker 6: the sheriff did say today during an interview with NBC
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Speaker 6: that he believes Nancy is alive, and so as to
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Speaker 6: why he is suddenly saying he believes Nancy is alive
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Speaker 6: after these ransom notesment to news stations around the country yesterday,
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Speaker 6: doesn't there's something there? There might be a there there
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Speaker 6: that maybe we just don't know because the sheriff again
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Speaker 6: is holding these cards so close to the vest despite
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Speaker 6: being accessible to the media.
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Speaker 1: I want to bring in Jeffrey Gentry joining US forensic
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Speaker 1: certified blood stained pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene analyst and
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Speaker 1: death investigator, Former toxicology analyst, author of forensic science applications
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Speaker 1: to death and crime scene investigations, author of blood stained
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Speaker 1: pattern Analysis, author of death investigation information to obtain during
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Speaker 1: a forensic death investigation. On TikTok At Jeffrey Gentry b
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Speaker 1: p A blood pattern Analyst Facebook. Jeff Gentry, Bloodstained Pattern Analyst, Jeff,
6:02
Speaker 1: thank you for.
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Speaker 2: Being with us. Jeff.
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Speaker 1: Of course, I'm just a trial lawyer. But when I
6:08
Speaker 1: looked at the blood, let's see the blood that is
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Speaker 1: outside of Nancy Guthrie's home.
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Speaker 2: It looked to.
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Speaker 1: Me like low velocity droplets free falling, which to me,
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Speaker 1: to me, it looks like maybe from a nosebleed. It
6:27
Speaker 1: does not look like high velocity spatter. It does not
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Speaker 1: look like high velocity spray that you would see from
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Speaker 1: a gunshot wound. It does not look like you don't
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Speaker 1: we haven't heard anything about throwback on the ceiling or
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Speaker 1: the walls from a bludgeoning.
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Speaker 2: And jeff when they first told.
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Speaker 1: Me that her DNA, Nancy's DNA was found in the home,
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Speaker 1: I was like, well, of course her DNA's in the home,
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Speaker 1: she lives there. But how does that tell you the
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Speaker 1: sheriff that she was a deducted air go either a
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Speaker 1: copious amount of blood which means she's severely injured or
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Speaker 1: dead like we saw on the Jennifer Doulos, Connecticut mom
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Speaker 1: of five case. There's so much one in the garage.
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Speaker 1: They knew she was dead. The location such as on
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Speaker 1: the ceiling right, which would indicate a bludgeoning, and then
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Speaker 1: a throwback or spray or the high velocity. I say,
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Speaker 1: if there had been a gunshot wound.
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Speaker 2: Looking at the blood pattern.
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Speaker 1: That we see, Jeffrey Gentry, that gives me hope that
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Speaker 1: she is alive, because you don't have the other things
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Speaker 1: that I mentioned, Jeffrey.
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Speaker 7: So when I look at this blood, I of course,
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Speaker 7: any blood at a crime scene is always concerning. I mean,
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Speaker 7: you should take take all precautions if you find blood
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Speaker 7: at a crime scene. It is a tremendous amount of
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Speaker 7: evidence that's in the blood. Not only can I tell
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Speaker 7: you events that happen, but then of course you have
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Speaker 7: the possibility to get DNA. But when I look at
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Speaker 7: these blood patterns, I'm not overly concerned. So you're exactly right.
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Speaker 7: These are passive blood drops. They are drip stains, a
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Speaker 7: little bit of a drip trail, and then there's a
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Speaker 7: blood into blood pattern. A blood into blood pattern is
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Speaker 7: when blood is dripping from height into a blood source
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Speaker 7: and it creates that neat little pattern of drip stains
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Speaker 7: with the little satellite spatter around it. So this would
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Speaker 7: indicate one that this is not a major injury. Somebody
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Speaker 7: of that age can get skin tears very easily in
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Speaker 7: their arms on their hands, and those are going to
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Speaker 7: bleed quite a bit. But it also indicates that this
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Speaker 7: person is upright. They are stationary for some period of time,
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Speaker 7: but then there's also movement as well with the drip trail.
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Speaker 7: So nothing that I'm seeing would indicate that one this
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Speaker 7: person has a traumatic injury like a gunshot wound or
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Speaker 7: a stab wound. Like projected blood patterns you mentioned cast
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Speaker 7: off from a weapon. You don't see impact spatter. These
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Speaker 7: are all large volume stains that are going straight down,
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Speaker 7: indicating that that person was either walking or stationary. But
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Speaker 7: they're Upbrad. The other thing that I look for is
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Speaker 7: why isn't there blood on the door knob?
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Speaker 2: Hold on? Hold on?
9:08
Speaker 1: You got me drinking out of the fire hydrant.
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Speaker 2: That's a lot.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I like for you to just go, but I've
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Speaker 1: got to dissect what you said. I hope I didn't
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Speaker 1: interrupt your train of thought and you know that you
9:23
Speaker 1: were going to say. And second, but could you again
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Speaker 1: slow down and state what you just said, because I
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Speaker 1: find it extremely compelling. And yes, of course blood at
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Speaker 1: a crime scene is always.
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Speaker 2: Bad, it's not good.
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Speaker 1: But given that, would you start again with the passive
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Speaker 1: blood spots the drip stains?
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Speaker 7: Absolutely, So what we're looking at, I'm looking at the
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Speaker 7: photograph right now, there is a drip trail, So those
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Speaker 7: are individual circular bloodstains. It obviously fell from height, So
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Speaker 7: this person is upright. There's nothing at all to indicate
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Speaker 7: that they were dragged. There's nothing that's all to indicate
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Speaker 7: that they were on the ground and bleeding. You don't
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Speaker 7: see any blood pools, so that gives me hope that
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Speaker 7: this person is alive. The drip stains and the blood
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Speaker 7: and the blood patterns. That's one of the most common
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Speaker 7: patterns you see at any scene, just because usually somebody's upright,
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Speaker 7: they realize that they're bleeding and they're walking around, either
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Speaker 7: trying to get help or going from one point to another.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, look at the spot right there, Jeffrey.
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Speaker 1: I'm following up on what you said. You could almost
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Speaker 1: see what would be her footsteps based on what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: One by the door, Matt on square two. See it
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Speaker 1: starts on square two, square one, starting at the door
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Speaker 1: step step step step. I mean, I'm reading into it,
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Speaker 1: but that's all we can do right now.
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Speaker 7: That's exactly what you would expect if somebody has, say
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Speaker 7: a minor injury, and they're kind of standing in the
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Speaker 7: same spot, kind of moving around. But then a lot
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Speaker 7: of times people are stepping in their own blood, or
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Speaker 7: the suspect is stepping in their blood. So I hope
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Speaker 7: the investigators are picking up on that and looking for
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Speaker 7: footwear impressions or what were the suspects possibly wearing. The
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Speaker 7: good thing about her possibly bleeding too is the fact
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Speaker 7: that her blood is not going to only be at
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Speaker 7: this scene, but whatever vehicle she was taken in, the
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Speaker 7: blood's going to be in that vehicle as well. Because
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Speaker 7: a blood pattern like this, considering that she might be
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Speaker 7: taking antiic coagulant medications, it's not going to stop bleeding
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Speaker 7: right away. It's going to continue to bleed, and so
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Speaker 7: that gives you the possibility of a forensic link from
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Speaker 7: the crime scene to the suspect vehicle. But again, I
11:38
Speaker 7: don't see anything here that stands out is overly concerning
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Speaker 7: regarding debt. There's no blood patterns that would suggest a
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Speaker 7: major violent event happened and that this person is obviously deceased.
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Speaker 7: I don't see that at all.
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Speaker 1: Everything you just said is music to my ears. Jeffrey
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Speaker 1: Gentry breaking it down in an amazing way. Look, she's
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Speaker 1: eighty four, she's on med, she's got a heart problem,
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Speaker 1: she's got a pastmaker, she's bleeding.
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Speaker 2: It's not good.
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Speaker 1: I know it's not good, but I'm looking for anything.
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Speaker 1: I'm looking for anything because I care about Savannah. I
12:17
Speaker 1: want there to be a good outcome. But we have
12:21
Speaker 1: to look at the facts as we know them. Minor
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Speaker 1: injury walking upright, No blood pools, she's not on the ground, okay,
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Speaker 1: Nothing to indicate a traumatic injury such as a gunshot wound,
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Speaker 1: no cast off, Okay, what more? And I'd like to
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Speaker 1: see the blood again. You were about to say, and second?
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Speaker 1: What was second?
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Speaker 2: Was it the vehicle or is there something else?
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Speaker 7: Well, one of the other one of the other things
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Speaker 7: that I look for is not only where did bleeding
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Speaker 7: begin and where did it end?
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Speaker 3: Where did the.
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Speaker 7: Person start out? Where did they travel to? But I
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Speaker 7: don't see any blood on the doorframe. I don't see
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Speaker 7: any blood on the doorknob. It's a black surface on
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Speaker 7: the screen door. But I don't see anything that would
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Speaker 7: suggests that she was bleeding and trying to get back
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Speaker 7: inside of her house. So you got to wonder where
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Speaker 7: did this begin and where did it end? Like I've mentioned,
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Speaker 7: there's no major blood pools, there's no transfer patterns on
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Speaker 7: the ground, so we don't think that she was dragged
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Speaker 7: away from her home. We don't think that she crawled
13:30
Speaker 7: away from her home. There's only a couple possibilities. Either
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Speaker 7: she walked away on her own and didn't have any
13:36
Speaker 7: major injuries, or she was carried away from her home.
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Speaker 7: But then you got a wonder too, where did this
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Speaker 7: blood trail end? Was there any blood in the driveway?
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Speaker 7: How far did they expend? So I've got I mean, unfortunately,
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Speaker 7: it does give you a lot of answers, But then
13:49
Speaker 7: I've got a lot of questions too, So I would
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Speaker 7: love to be out there looking around at this scene.
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Speaker 2: Hold on, before you start with those questions.
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Speaker 1: Can I see the closing of the door again, because
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Speaker 1: we were told Dave Matt that there was sign it
14:00
Speaker 1: to a forced entry. Kash, I wish we could see
14:02
Speaker 1: me in on that forced entry, but that the door
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Speaker 1: was unlocked, that tells me maybe they came fourth. Wait,
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Speaker 1: am I seeing forced entry right there on the right. No,
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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I am. They look at all
14:16
Speaker 1: those locks, there's a heavy duty it looks like iron
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Speaker 1: screen door with double locks on it. Maybe the forced
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Speaker 1: entry was at another entrance or window and then they.
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Speaker 2: Walked out this way.
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Speaker 1: That's pretty bold to walk out of the front door.
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Speaker 1: Am I seeing the front door, Dave mac I think
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Speaker 1: I am is at the front door to her home.
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Speaker 3: It is. And the thing is, Nancy, You've got to
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Speaker 3: realize that we've been told that missus Guthrie cannot walk
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Speaker 3: fifty yards without assistance, so she's not mobile, which means
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Speaker 3: whoever is taking her out of the house would have
14:57
Speaker 3: to be helping her. So they wouldn't be able to
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Speaker 3: go crawling out a window out the way they came in.
15:02
Speaker 3: They would pretty much be left with if they're taking
15:04
Speaker 3: her out to go out the biggest pathway, which is
15:07
Speaker 3: going to be the front door. And as you mentioned
15:10
Speaker 3: those blood patterns, if she's got a bloody knows or
15:13
Speaker 3: something along those lines. As they're taking her out, they're
15:16
Speaker 3: leading her or I say they because you're kind of
15:19
Speaker 3: talking to people having to help carry her out and
15:22
Speaker 3: lead her down the clearest path possible. So that pretty
15:26
Speaker 3: much makes that a real possibility.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, with my mom, unless she's using her walker, it
15:33
Speaker 1: is really hard for me to I can do it,
15:36
Speaker 1: but it's really hard to get her up and walk
15:42
Speaker 1: her by myself. And as Jeffrey Gentry is saying, we
15:47
Speaker 1: don't see any indication of the blood that she fell
15:49
Speaker 1: at any point was being dragged along. A lot happening, guys,
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Speaker 1: And I know we keep going back to the one
15:55
Speaker 1: photo over and over, but that is the way you
15:58
Speaker 1: prove a case. You take one piece of evidence, it
16:01
Speaker 1: could be this writing pin right here, and you think
16:04
Speaker 1: and you think and you examine until you squeeze every
16:09
Speaker 1: bit of information out of that one thing that you can.
16:14
Speaker 1: And did you hear, Jeffrey Gentry analyze this blood in
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Speaker 1: a way that I have not heard that? Keep thinking, Jeffrey,
16:23
Speaker 1: keep thinking and percolating to Brian Fitzgibbons, I want to
16:25
Speaker 1: talk to you about practicalities, practicalities if this is a ransom.
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Speaker 2: Oh, and that reminds me.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to circle back Jessica and Dave about do
16:36
Speaker 1: we believe this bitcoin account is real? Because I've heard
16:40
Speaker 1: that it has been authenticated, doesn't mean the ransom note's real.
16:43
Speaker 1: They like, somebody could get my checking number. They can
16:46
Speaker 1: figure it out right or come up with a number,
16:49
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean I'm part of a ransom or
16:51
Speaker 1: a kidnap. So that could be a legitimate, authenticated bitcoin
16:55
Speaker 1: number account number and still not be connected to the Guthries.
17:00
Speaker 1: But to you, Wyan fitz Gibbons, you've done this one
17:02
Speaker 1: hundred times. So you ransom someone, don't you believe at
17:09
Speaker 1: some juncture you're gonna have to show proof of life?
17:13
Speaker 1: I mean, why killer, don't you think at some point
17:17
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to if they want.
17:18
Speaker 2: That money, they're gonna have show proof of life.
17:21
Speaker 4: Absolutely necessary, right, because that's the key to this whole thing.
17:26
Speaker 4: If this is a kidnapped for ransom case, they will
17:30
Speaker 4: want to make it very clear to the Guthrie family
17:35
Speaker 4: that Nancy is alive and well prior to them sending
17:40
Speaker 4: any type of ransom money, they would obviously demand that.
17:44
Speaker 4: So you know that being absent from this ransom note
17:47
Speaker 4: really stuck out to me because you know, you're not
17:49
Speaker 4: going to risk communicating too many times without providing it
17:55
Speaker 4: and potentially exposing your identity.
17:58
Speaker 1: What do you make of sending it to three different
18:01
Speaker 1: outlets k O L D T m Z and k
18:08
Speaker 1: gun kg U N What do you make of three
18:11
Speaker 1: different outlets?
18:12
Speaker 8: Fitzgibbons knee jerk reaction to this Nancy is that this
18:16
Speaker 8: is either a hoaxter who's trying to make a quick
18:20
Speaker 8: dollar off of this horrible scenario, or second, if it
18:25
Speaker 8: is actually tied to the case that there's some kind
18:28
Speaker 8: of distraction taking place that they're looking up looking to
18:32
Speaker 8: tie up resources of Larenforce.
18:34
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, let me get you to weigh in on
18:38
Speaker 1: thought that was actually you brought it up as well.
18:42
Speaker 1: The blood, the blood conceivably in the car, if she
18:46
Speaker 1: is bleeding from the nose, how could they possibly erase
18:52
Speaker 1: eradicate the blood from inside the vehicle. And yes, there
18:55
Speaker 1: had to be a vehicle. And whoever did this is
18:59
Speaker 1: brazen because they took her out the front door, right
19:03
Speaker 1: there in her own neighborhood. So tell me about the
19:07
Speaker 1: possibility of blood being in the car, Jeffrey Gentry.
19:11
Speaker 7: So, if this is in fact her blood, and I
19:14
Speaker 7: haven't seen anything in the news that would say that
19:17
Speaker 7: they did DNA testing already and proved that this was
19:20
Speaker 7: her blood outside of the house, there's always I mean,
19:23
Speaker 7: I guess the possibility that it's a stage crime scene too.
19:26
Speaker 7: Whenever I teach classes, I use my own blood and
19:30
Speaker 7: I'll make a pattern exactly like that to demonstrate an
19:33
Speaker 7: event where somebody's standing upright and bleeding, so there's always
19:36
Speaker 7: that possibility. So hopefully they've already done the DNA testing
19:39
Speaker 7: and confirmed that that is in fact her blood. But
19:42
Speaker 7: if she's actively bleeding either from the nose, and my
19:46
Speaker 7: thought is just with her being a little bit older
19:49
Speaker 7: rather fragile, that she might have skin tears on her arms,
19:52
Speaker 7: I would suspect that when they do find her that
19:55
Speaker 7: she's going to have some kind of skin tears on
19:57
Speaker 7: her arms that created these blood patterns arms because elderly
20:01
Speaker 7: people their skin is thin. But if she's actively bleeding,
20:06
Speaker 7: she is going to keep bleeding. It's not going to stop.
20:10
Speaker 7: And so she's going to bleed inside of the suspect vehicle,
20:13
Speaker 7: either on door handles or inside on the seats, and
20:17
Speaker 7: that's not really easy to get rid of. I'm not
20:19
Speaker 7: going to tell everybody exactly how to get rid of blood,
20:21
Speaker 7: but I could definitely give you some ideas. But there
20:24
Speaker 7: should be some evidence of clean up if they did
20:26
Speaker 7: try to get rid of it, either bleach or other chemicals.
20:30
Speaker 7: And nine out of ten times, if people suspects are
20:34
Speaker 7: willing to leave behind blood at a crime scene, they're
20:37
Speaker 7: not going to do a very good job cleaning up
20:38
Speaker 7: a car. So that leaves me hope that there is
20:41
Speaker 7: going to be that forensic link between her residence and
20:44
Speaker 7: the suspect vehicle.
20:51
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Gray. Back to Jessica Finn joining
20:58
Speaker 1: a senior investigative reporter us Son, what have you learned
21:04
Speaker 1: about the time line? At first we were told to
21:09
Speaker 1: forty five am. Now we're thinking more about two am.
21:15
Speaker 1: A neighbor states that he went by the home at
21:17
Speaker 1: six forty five am and nothing was happening, suggesting that
21:22
Speaker 1: she was still there. I think it says just the
21:24
Speaker 1: opposite that it was all over. She had already been
21:27
Speaker 1: taken by six forty five am. What are we learning,
21:31
Speaker 1: if anything, from the neighbors.
21:34
Speaker 6: Well, so one of the neighbors, a couple of the neighbors.
21:36
Speaker 6: Now I've seen we have our own reporter on the
21:39
Speaker 6: ground in Arizona at the US Sun, and then I've
21:42
Speaker 6: seen other reports of other neighbors who have actually reported
21:45
Speaker 6: that there was suspicious activity on their own property within
21:48
Speaker 6: like several blocks of Nancy's home, that people that there
21:52
Speaker 6: was an individual that had been snooping around and looked suspicious.
21:56
Speaker 6: The neighbor, one of the neighbors that we spoke to
21:58
Speaker 6: had actually called the cops about this incident back when
22:01
Speaker 6: it happened two months ago. There was another incident in
22:03
Speaker 6: the last couple of weeks with another neighbor that was
22:07
Speaker 6: about ten minutes away from Nancy, who reported a similar incident,
22:11
Speaker 6: and so the and then we have the neighbor that's
22:13
Speaker 6: directly across the street who said, when I had emerged
22:16
Speaker 6: from my home at six forty five am on Sunday morning,
22:19
Speaker 6: I didn't see anything. So you know, again there her
22:22
Speaker 6: car was left behind, her wallet, her keys, her phone.
22:25
Speaker 6: You wouldn't notice if Nancy was there or not at
22:28
Speaker 6: six forty five in the morning, if she had already
22:30
Speaker 6: been taken, because everything was still left as is besides
22:33
Speaker 6: Nancy herself. You know, from what we know, she was
22:37
Speaker 6: dropped off at nine forty five pm on Saturday night.
22:40
Speaker 6: And that drop off what came after she had dinner
22:43
Speaker 6: at Savannah's sister Anne, Annie's house and Annie's husband, Tomaso.
22:48
Speaker 6: They had dinner together and then Tomaso drove drove Nancy
22:52
Speaker 6: Gotrie back to her home and he watched her go
22:54
Speaker 6: in the door. But of course, by the next day
22:57
Speaker 6: she was supposed to show up at church and around eleven,
22:59
Speaker 6: an I am of one of her fellow parishioners called
23:03
Speaker 6: the cops to called the family first to let the
23:06
Speaker 6: family know she wasn't there, and then the family went
23:08
Speaker 6: to go check on the house. Of course the cops
23:10
Speaker 6: were called. That's kind of the general timeline that we're
23:13
Speaker 6: working with.
23:14
Speaker 1: I noticed that you just said that the son in
23:18
Speaker 1: law dropped her off, not the daughter, and that he
23:21
Speaker 1: waited for her to get into the home before he left.
23:24
Speaker 5: Correct, Yeah, it is, it is.
23:26
Speaker 6: It's become confirmed that he was the last guy to see.
23:28
Speaker 1: Her, okay, and they all had dinner together before that.
23:33
Speaker 2: Is that right?
23:34
Speaker 5: That is correct?
23:35
Speaker 1: Okay. At this hour, we are learning that multiple experts
23:40
Speaker 1: are pushing a multiple abductor theory.
23:45
Speaker 2: Jessica, Why, Well.
23:47
Speaker 6: For a number of reasons. She's not mobile, like we've
23:50
Speaker 6: said earlier in the broadcast, she can't get around on
23:52
Speaker 6: her own, so it would take some effort to actually
23:54
Speaker 6: physically get her out of the house, and none the
23:56
Speaker 6: sense that it would take two people to carry her.
23:59
Speaker 6: But you need like somebody to escort her out, You
24:01
Speaker 6: need the waiting car, you need to get her in
24:03
Speaker 6: the car fairly quickly. And so there's the idea that
24:07
Speaker 6: you know, really this is at least a two man job.
24:10
Speaker 6: There's also been some theories that there possibly was like
24:13
Speaker 6: a junior an abductor or kidnapper involved, who may have
24:17
Speaker 6: been scoping out the property in the days and weeks
24:19
Speaker 6: before this actually all went down. But it does seem
24:22
Speaker 6: that at least the very night of likely requires a
24:26
Speaker 6: couple of people to get her out of the house
24:28
Speaker 6: and quietly gag her if needed, and get her into
24:32
Speaker 6: the car and then swiftly drive away.
24:35
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining us some crime stories, Dave, what can
24:38
Speaker 1: you tell me? Can you expound upon the sightings of
24:43
Speaker 1: a quote suspicious person?
24:45
Speaker 3: Actually, Nancy, Yeah, they're actually more than one. Okay, A
24:49
Speaker 3: suspicious man was actually seen lurking in someone's yard a
24:55
Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, and it was he wasn't just
24:58
Speaker 3: like a phantom. It was enough that he actually set
25:02
Speaker 3: off a motion detecting light that awoke the homeowner. This
25:08
Speaker 3: was about ten minutes away from Nancy Guthrie's home. You know,
25:11
Speaker 3: as we've mentioned, it is a neighborhood, but the homes
25:13
Speaker 3: are not right pressed up against one another. There is
25:16
Speaker 3: a little distance between them. This is an elderly man,
25:20
Speaker 3: and he says he caught the guy in his yard
25:23
Speaker 3: after the motion sensor went off and the flood light
25:25
Speaker 3: switches on. The light spooked the guy and the fellow
25:29
Speaker 3: left away. But that's not the only one, Nancy. That
25:32
Speaker 3: was several weeks ago. But now we find out that
25:35
Speaker 3: there was a suspicious, tall, strange man reportedly lurking in
25:42
Speaker 3: a yard near Nancy Guthrie's residence about thirty minutes before
25:47
Speaker 3: police arrived. Thirty minutes before police arrived, a strange man
25:54
Speaker 3: in the neighborhood. All I could think of was cobt
25:58
Speaker 3: or going back the next morning. So we've got at
26:03
Speaker 3: least two different individuals.
26:04
Speaker 1: Degree I disagree, and I'll tell you why, because somebody
26:08
Speaker 1: had to be with Nancy Guthrie. Sure, unless there's more
26:13
Speaker 1: than one person involved, I don't think that that well,
26:16
Speaker 1: But you.
26:16
Speaker 2: Know what, you're right, Coburger did go back. Coburger did
26:18
Speaker 2: go back.
26:19
Speaker 3: I think you're talking about having more than one person
26:22
Speaker 3: getting around. And again, this goes back to her lack
26:24
Speaker 3: of mobility, her size, medium build, and eighty four years old.
26:28
Speaker 3: She's not going to be moving fast. You're going to
26:30
Speaker 3: have to have help to come out of that house
26:32
Speaker 3: and you talk about your taking care with your mother
26:35
Speaker 3: to get her moved around, and these are people that
26:38
Speaker 3: don't care, and it's not going to be easy. So
26:41
Speaker 3: I'm thinking there had to be at least two, so
26:43
Speaker 3: there might be somebody sitting with her wherever they are,
26:46
Speaker 3: while the other one's back there watching what's happening.
26:48
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us or renown psycho analyst doctor Bethete.
26:52
Speaker 1: It's my experience when you bring somebody else in on
26:56
Speaker 1: your crime, at some point, somebody's going to talk, or
27:02
Speaker 1: the wife of the purp knows about it, or the girlfriend,
27:06
Speaker 1: or just starting to get too big and too many
27:10
Speaker 1: people know about it.
27:12
Speaker 2: What do you think?
27:13
Speaker 5: That's what I've been thinking. I share your thoughts about that.
27:16
Speaker 5: I was thinking, who was sitting at home watching their
27:19
Speaker 5: TV or reading the news online and thinking, hmmm, my
27:24
Speaker 5: husband left at midnight. I wonder where he went. There's
27:27
Speaker 5: somebody out there who knows something. Nancy, in terms of
27:31
Speaker 5: these blood drops, you know she had a pacemaker, which
27:35
Speaker 5: tells me she was also on blood the thinners, right,
27:37
Speaker 5: because you typically prescribe that to people whobout pacemakers, and
27:41
Speaker 5: that the life saving medication may in fact be her
27:45
Speaker 5: blood thinner, right, so that without that there's a chance
27:49
Speaker 5: of her heart throwing off plot or having a stroke
27:53
Speaker 5: or something like that. Another question is, if the blood
27:55
Speaker 5: drops and right there on the doorstep, how did they
27:58
Speaker 5: get her all the way out to wherever the car was?
28:02
Speaker 5: Did they have a wheelchair waiting for her, which in
28:05
Speaker 5: which case they know a lot about her and her
28:08
Speaker 5: health issues. Okay, so that's very important to me. And
28:12
Speaker 5: was there blood in her bed? I mean, people who
28:14
Speaker 5: are in blood dinners often they just bleed during the
28:16
Speaker 5: night without even realizing it. And then also if the
28:20
Speaker 5: blood stopped on the door step, did somebody have a
28:24
Speaker 5: cloth or a bandage or something waiting for her to
28:27
Speaker 5: stop the blood drops? And just one of their quick
28:29
Speaker 5: thought Nancy, you know, I'm sure NBC is combing through
28:33
Speaker 5: all of Savannah Guthrie's emails. Did she did she cover
28:38
Speaker 5: a story that made somebody angry or pissed off or threatened?
28:43
Speaker 5: Was there somebody stalking her or threatening sending threatening emails?
28:47
Speaker 5: I mean you said the vengeful nature of the random
28:51
Speaker 5: of the ransom note or else? Is that reflected in
28:55
Speaker 5: language of emails that have been sent her because she
28:59
Speaker 5: is a well known figure and they have a lot
29:01
Speaker 5: of security at NBC. And that's an angle that I
29:03
Speaker 5: think nobody's talking about. It would be really interesting to
29:06
Speaker 5: know more.
29:07
Speaker 1: Okay, at the risk of poopooing doctor Beth Andy Marshall
29:12
Speaker 1: focused on doctor I'm certainly not a renounced psycho analyst,
29:15
Speaker 1: but that sounds like a fifth grade girl's mystery novel
29:20
Speaker 1: that Savannah covered a story and somebody read the story
29:24
Speaker 1: or heard the story and got so mad that they went, oh,
29:27
Speaker 1: I'm going to track down her mom on the other
29:29
Speaker 1: side of the country and kidnap her and ask for money.
29:33
Speaker 5: Hey, Nancy, I've had hate and threatening emails after being
29:36
Speaker 5: on yours show.
29:38
Speaker 2: You know, thank you.
29:39
Speaker 5: People read all kinds of meanings into what they hear
29:42
Speaker 5: public figures say. But also could it have incited somebody
29:47
Speaker 5: into thinking about how to get back at Savannah or
29:52
Speaker 5: put her front and center of some disgruntled person's life.
29:56
Speaker 5: I think that's something that should be explored.
29:58
Speaker 1: You know, I can't poopoo anything because who would have
30:01
Speaker 1: thought that a PhD criminology student teacher would target four
30:09
Speaker 1: random people he's never met and murder them in the
30:13
Speaker 1: middle of the night. No sex attack, no robbery. It's
30:17
Speaker 1: almost unheard of. So I really don't have a leg
30:21
Speaker 1: to stand on to poo poo anything at this Junctor
30:23
Speaker 1: speaking of trolls, Jessica Finn joining us us Son, what
30:29
Speaker 1: about it. I've heard that there are evil trolls attacking
30:34
Speaker 1: Savannah at a time like this.
30:36
Speaker 6: Yeah, incredibly, I guess not incredibly. It is the world
30:40
Speaker 6: that we live in, right. There have been several notes
30:43
Speaker 6: since to Savannah through NBC basically, you know, claiming that
30:48
Speaker 6: they did this, and all sorts of horrible allegations and
30:52
Speaker 6: threats to her. It's really kind of thrown her name
30:56
Speaker 6: aggressively into the national lexicon in a way that has
31:01
Speaker 6: not been you know, in a way that her name
31:03
Speaker 6: has not been out there before. And unfortunately, when you're
31:06
Speaker 6: a victim of a crime, as you know, Nancy, you've
31:08
Speaker 6: become victimized even further often as a case like this unwinds.
31:14
Speaker 6: One of the stories that I did earlier this week
31:17
Speaker 6: at the Sun, actually to Bethany's point, is how NBC
31:21
Speaker 6: has stepped up security in and around thirty Rock as
31:24
Speaker 6: a result of this case. That people on air that
31:27
Speaker 6: the on Air talent are very spooked over this whole situation.
31:31
Speaker 6: They're all very concerned for their own families and their
31:33
Speaker 6: own lives, and NBC has stepped up security around thirty Rock.
31:38
Speaker 6: They've also had additional NYPD patrols going on in the area.
31:42
Speaker 6: So this has had a real chilling and ripple effect
31:45
Speaker 6: throughout the NBC family.
31:47
Speaker 2: By Gibbs, how hard is it to track bitcoin?
31:51
Speaker 4: You know, what we learned recently is that this bitcoin
31:55
Speaker 4: account associated with the ransom note is indeed and not
32:00
Speaker 4: authentic account. Now, when it comes to tracking the ownership
32:04
Speaker 4: of that account, that is certainly going to be a
32:09
Speaker 4: more difficult task.
32:11
Speaker 1: Really, I thought it would be more like an IP
32:13
Speaker 1: address on a computer.
32:15
Speaker 4: This could be a lot more complicated than that.
32:18
Speaker 1: Nancy, Well, okay, what do you mean by that. I'm
32:21
Speaker 1: just a lawyer. What are you talking about. Why is
32:23
Speaker 1: it hard to track a bitcoin account? Somebody's got to
32:26
Speaker 1: create it, it's got to be listed back to somewhere,
32:28
Speaker 1: it's got to be attached to Is it attached to
32:30
Speaker 1: a bank or.
32:30
Speaker 4: No, It's going to be possible. But the but bitcoin
32:35
Speaker 4: inherently has certain amounts of privacy, a lot more than
32:40
Speaker 4: a standard bank account or an IP address would have
32:44
Speaker 4: So you would have to assume that again, if this
32:48
Speaker 4: is an authentic ransom demand, that the author of that
32:54
Speaker 4: ransom note has gone to great lengths to secure that
32:58
Speaker 4: Bitcoin account that could not be traced back to them,
33:01
Speaker 4: And that is certainly possible.
33:03
Speaker 1: Aren't they id by alpha numeric wallet addresses and not names?
33:07
Speaker 4: That is correct, So you're not going to have an
33:11
Speaker 4: individual's name and street address associated with it like you would.
33:15
Speaker 4: You know, if they said, you know, wire money to
33:18
Speaker 4: this routing number in this checking account number, you know,
33:21
Speaker 4: that would be easily traced and verified.
33:24
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you this.
33:26
Speaker 1: You may think it's hard to try bitcoin, and maybe
33:29
Speaker 1: it is, but what are they going to.
33:31
Speaker 2: Let it sit there forever? At some point they're going
33:35
Speaker 2: to move it.
33:36
Speaker 1: And you want to tell me the Feds aren't going
33:38
Speaker 1: to be up their tailpipes three inches when they try
33:41
Speaker 1: to move that to another account, to another account, to
33:44
Speaker 1: another account. I mean, Washington, DC, the FBI, they're crawling
33:50
Speaker 1: with people that are digital experts.
33:53
Speaker 2: This is their super bowl. Just please put money in
33:57
Speaker 2: that bitcoin account and.
33:59
Speaker 1: See what has Although I find it interesting, I think
34:02
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany brought it up that it was sent to
34:04
Speaker 1: three news outlets tmz KO l D and K GUNN
34:10
Speaker 1: K g u N. Why then, why not the family? Okay,
34:15
Speaker 1: hold on just a second. I want to make sure
34:17
Speaker 1: we've covered everything. The story that's floating around about an
34:21
Speaker 1: elite group from Border Patrol entering into the fray Dave
34:26
Speaker 1: Mac that's been discredited, correct.
34:29
Speaker 3: Not just discredited. They were brought in for the first
34:31
Speaker 3: day of searching in the area around the home, but
34:35
Speaker 3: they were sent home Monday night.
34:37
Speaker 1: Right now, I understand that the search is back on drones, helicopters,
34:43
Speaker 1: foot searches had been called off for a period of
34:46
Speaker 1: time and they have been renewed. That gives me hope.
34:50
Speaker 1: That gives me hope that l E. Law enforcement believes
34:53
Speaker 1: that they can find something through those searches. If you
34:58
Speaker 1: know or think you know anything about the disappearance of
35:03
Speaker 1: this beautiful grandma, Nancy Guthrie, please dial five two zero
35:10
Speaker 1: three five one four nine hundred repeat five two zero
35:15
Speaker 1: three five one four.
35:17
Speaker 2: Nine hundred before I sign off.
35:20
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, I gave you a minute to think through
35:23
Speaker 1: what you're hearing.
35:25
Speaker 2: Any other analysis of the saine or the.
35:27
Speaker 7: Blood any I think it's crazy that anybody would think
35:32
Speaker 7: that they'd get away with this, Like you said, I mean,
35:35
Speaker 7: with the FBI hundreds of detectives working on it, how
35:39
Speaker 7: do they possibly think that this is a crime that
35:41
Speaker 7: they can get away with. So I do definitely believe
35:44
Speaker 7: that there is good hope that she's still alive, especially
35:46
Speaker 7: considering the patterns, the circumstances, and hopefully they find her
35:52
Speaker 7: and quickly and the rest of people that are involved.
35:54
Speaker 1: I agree again Tipline five two zero three, five one
35:59
Speaker 1: four nine hundred, and not only that, we are seeking
36:05
Speaker 1: help from a higher source, and we ask that you
36:09
Speaker 1: join the Guthrie family and the Crime Stories family in
36:13
Speaker 1: prayers for the safe return of Nancy Guthrie to the
36:17
Speaker 1: loving arms of her daughter, Savannah. Nancy Grace signing off
36:23
Speaker 1: for now, goodbye friend,