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Career Security, Not Job Security: Heart-Centered Leadership with Lyndsay Dowd · Loud & Lifted

• 0:00
  Welcome to Loud and Lifted. I'm your host, Betsy
• 0:02
  Hamm. Today, I'm sitting down with Lindsay Doed,
• 0:04
  founder of Heartbeat for Hire and author of Top
• 0:07
  Down Culture and one of the top podcast hosts
• 0:09
  in the industry. Lindsay brings a refreshing
• 0:12
  and heart -centered approach to leadership, showing
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  us that culture isn't a buzzword, it's the heartbeat
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  of every successful organization. Together, we'll
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  unpack the advice no one tells you, but everyone
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  needs to hear in order to succeed in the workplace.
• 0:25
  From the way you show up, to how you build trust.
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  We'll also dive into practical shifts like how
• 0:30
  to get unstuck when you're in a funk and how
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  to celebrate your team in a way that actually
• 0:34
  matters. Today's episode is no fluff guidance
• 0:38
  you can put into play today. Welcome to Loud
• 0:49
  and Lifted. Lindsay, thank you so much for being
• 0:51
  here. Oh, it is my honor. I am so happy you're
• 0:55
  doing this show. This is so exciting. I have
• 0:58
  another reason to have a conversation with you.
• 1:00
  It was so good. So let's give the listeners a
• 1:04
  little bit of background of just tell us, you
• 1:05
  know, your journey and what you're up to now.
• 1:08
  Sure. Yeah, I spent a solid 25 years in corporate
• 1:12
  America and You know, did all the things that
• 1:14
  you were expected to do. Got the awards, got
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  the accolades, climbed the ranks. And 23 of those
• 1:20
  years were at IBM. And I came from a long big
• 1:22
  blue legacy of my family put in 105 years there.
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  So we understood that. We understood that culture.
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  We understood security and, and all the things
• 1:32
  that come with corporate America. And at the
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  end of 23 years, I was ready for a change. I
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  was the last one standing from my family. And
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  another company sought me out and said, come
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  lead a sales team for us. and I said okay so
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  packed up my big blue legacy and off I went and
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  every any reasonable executive knows it takes
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  a little bit for a new executive to find the
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  bathroom and six months is a reasonable opportunity
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  to do that and that's not what they had in mind
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  and so at six months they fired me oh my god
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  and I was devastated totally gutted not the person
• 2:07
  that gets fired i'm the person that like follows
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  the rules creates the rules creates the space
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  creates the culture so it was really hard for
• 2:15
  me to get my head around that and for a month
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  i couldn't talk about it and i at the end of
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  that month i asked myself three questions what
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  am i really good at what do i love to do And
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  how can I help people the most? And I knew how
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  to build modern leaders and I knew how to create
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  irresistible culture that drives results. And
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  so I started my company Heartbeat for Hire, which
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  gave everyone in my family a heart attack because
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  they don't know entrepreneurs. They don't, they
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  think that's just a recipe for failure. And I
• 2:44
  wrote my first book. I wrote my second book.
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  I started a podcast. I got some awards and I
• 2:49
  coach C -suites and individual leaders on all
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  of those things. I teach executive. LinkedIn
• 2:54
  workshops, a keynote, and yeah, that's kind of
• 2:58
  what I'm up to. That's amazing. I love it. And
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  I love the heartbeat for hire. Like that just
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  has heart, which is sometimes hard to find a
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  leadership, right? And you know what? It was
• 3:07
  a direct response to the leader who had terribly
• 3:11
  low EQ who fired me. She even said to me, she
• 3:15
  said, you have really strong EQ. I don't. And
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  I said, oh, I agree. She did not. Hers was terrible
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  and everyone knew it. And what was really interesting
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  was the recruiter that brought me in said to
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  me after the fact, when she found out that I
• 3:31
  wasn't there anymore, she said, if you came in
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  as her peer, she would have learned a lot from
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  you, but you were an absolute threat to the way
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  that she leads. And she wanted me to be a micromanager.
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  That's what she knew. That's what she understood.
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  And that is something I would never be. And it's
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  hard because sometimes you can have leaders who
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  realize that they have to have balance, right?
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  Like you don't want to hire somebody exactly
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  like you want somebody who can bring different
• 3:55
  strengths. So it's unfortunate she didn't realize
• 3:57
  that you had different strengths. Hey, it was
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  a win for me because it was the shove out of
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  the nest that I needed. And it put me on the
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  path to figure out this whole chapter, which,
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  you know, I'm 53 years old. So three years ago,
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  when I started all this, I mean, which is crazy,
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  like at 50, starting a whole not just job, your
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  own business, the whole thing. I mean, wrote
• 4:19
  a couple who I never thought I'd be an author.
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  I never thought I'd host a podcast. This is,
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  it's amazing. So, you know, it's never too late.
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  How things work out, right? Like sometimes something
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  happens that you think is so bad and so negative,
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  and then it turns around and becomes something
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  that's the most amazing thing that's ever happened
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  to you. Yeah. Those are the best stories. I love
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  that. So through your career and obviously even
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  coaching others, you've probably seen and learned
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  a lot. And, you know, we talk about the same
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  things over and over time, what that we need
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  to focus on. But what have you seen from your
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  either personal perspective or just working with
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  other leaders that Nobody tells you to be prepared
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  for, besides just getting fired after six months.
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  You know, the big thing I tell people all the
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  time is there's no such thing as job security.
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  There's only career security. And, you know,
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  I was lucky. I was never laid off from IBM. I
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  did have to lay people off. But that's not the
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  world we live in anymore. People don't stay at
• 5:14
  companies for 20 years. And if they do, it's
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  a rarity. So you have to build that career security
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  for yourself and you have to build your own brand.
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  And your brand is not your title. Your brand
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  is not your company that you work for. is what
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  you innately are good at, what you're known for,
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  what people say about you when you're not in
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  the room. And that's the thing that I think a
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  lot of people in corporate really don't understand.
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  And the best tool for that is LinkedIn. So everybody
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  needs to be thinking about... you know what is
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  it what are my unique gifts what's my unique
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  value prop that i deliver to the world outside
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  of this role you could have done the most amazing
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  things but news flash guys if someone comes in
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  with a different idea of how the company should
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  go your role could be eliminated tomorrow absolutely
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  so have that ready to rock And then you're going
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  to be in a much better position should you find
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  yourself flat -footed. You know, I can totally
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  relate to that. I feel like you're talking to
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  me. You know, going from a CEO, I had a lot of
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  notoriety being a woman CEO in a very male -dominated
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  field. And so when that changed in January, I
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  was like, oh shit. No one's going to care about
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  me. I'm not going to have that presence. And
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  I did, I had to sort of pivot and take a more
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  active role in LinkedIn and start doing things
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  that got me out there. And I did realize it was
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  actually about me. Like people do care about
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  me professionally, personally, whatever you call
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  it. The company almost gets you there, right?
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  That got me the exposure. I wouldn't have taken
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  that role. I wouldn't have had the exposure that
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  I did, but I'm still here. Well, I think it's
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  really easy for people to minimize their success.
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  You know, I was just working with a client yesterday
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  on a LinkedIn workshop, and she's really uncomfortable
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  talking about the stuff that she's done, that
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  she's been recognized for. And I said, I'm going
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  to stop you right there, Olivia. The thing you
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  need to remember is you getting recognition,
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  whether it's our 100 % club or president's club
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  or, you know, some award. That's a fact. Right.
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  It's not a feeling. And you can talk about facts.
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  And if I say I'm a two -time author and a podcast
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  host, I'm not bragging. Those are facts. So everyone
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  needs to get a little more comfortable with saying,
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  no, I did this. It's mine. And nothing that happens
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  to me will ever take that away. Oh, I love that.
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  And it goes back to one of my favorite topics
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  is pie and how your performance matters, right?
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  But then there's also the image and the exposure.
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  And that just reinforces that, that your image
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  is your brand and you don't have to be out there
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  promoting yourself. What are you known for, right?
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  Like you're going to sit and sit and lurk. on
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  LinkedIn, and we know there's a lot of lurkers.
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  We love our lurkers. But if you're going to lurk,
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  and if you're going to be inspired by stuff,
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  but never say anything, the way you grow on that
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  platform is not with creating content. It's showing
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  up in the comments. And if something interests
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  you, say something. First of all, the person
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  who created it is going to appreciate the heck
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  out of it. But it's also all their network is
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  going to see what you have to say. And if you
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  say something real smart, and if you're listening
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  to this show, you're never going to say great
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  post because that sucks. You're going to say
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  something intelligent that reflects well on you.
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  And that is how you grow. That is how you start
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  your brand. It's also how you hone what you're
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  really interested in. I love that. That's so
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  true. What are some of those others? That's a
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  great one. That's a huge one that we can talk
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  about for the entire episode, but I know you
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  have other ones. Yeah, the other one that I love
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  this, and we did this a lot at IBM, but if you're
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  working for a company, ask to have informational
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  interviews outside of your reporting chain. And
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  the reason you do this is because you're getting
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  exposure to other parts of the business, but
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  they're also getting exposure to you. And when
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  they have an open role, perhaps your name rises
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  to the top of that list. I got five different
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  first -of -the -kind roles at IBM from just that.
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  And people would make an intro and they'd be
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  like, hey, Lindsay, you need to go and talk to
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  this executive over there. She, I think, would
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  really like you and you two need to know each
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  other. Sure, cool, let's go. So I go, I get to
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  Peacock, I get to say, I've done these things,
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  I've done all this good stuff. And they go, no
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  way, that's amazing, actually. I'm hiring and
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  I want you for this role. And if the timing is
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  right and the stars align, off you go. So it's
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  a great way of keeping your talent in house.
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  You have to have secure leaders at the top that
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  are not threatened by this and anyone that's
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  threatened by this. I'm going to tell you, you
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  need to stop and re -examine what you're doing
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  in leadership because I came from the philosophy
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  of I only wanted people on my team who wanted
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  to be there. And if someone said, hey, Lindsay,
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  I want to go and interview for this job, even
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  if I didn't think they were ready, I supported
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  them because I only wanted the people that really
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  wanted to be there and wanted to rock with me
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  on my team. So. Stop that whole, like, if I lose
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  her, my team's not gonna perform. You have to
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  say, no, I support you. They will remember that
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  loyalty, but think about it. If you begrudge
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  her that opportunity, what kind of performance
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  is she gonna have sticking around on your team?
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  So true. Not good. No. So think about those informational
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  interviews. Those are huge. And it's just such
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  a great way to broaden your experience. And you
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  know, my career path was anything but straight.
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  I zigged, I zagged, I went all over the place
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  and I did really weird unexpected things, but
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  I loved it and I learned so much. That's a really
• 10:55
  great way to do it. And I'll tell you. I have
• 10:58
  a friend, Mark Peters, he's the CEO of Butterball.
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  He actually built, this is so cool, he built
• 11:04
  this consortium in Michigan of companies. They're
• 11:07
  medium to small companies and they don't have
• 11:11
  a big enough company to do what I'm describing.
• 11:14
  So they created a consortium of companies to
• 11:16
  allow that to happen across. all of the five
• 11:19
  companies. So imagine, you know, hey guys, you
• 11:23
  know, I'm hiring for a social media marketer.
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  Does anybody have anyone ready to make a move
• 11:29
  at their company? Yeah, I do. Let me make an
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  intro. So it's fostering this really healthy
• 11:34
  culture across a bunch of different companies.
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  And I think that's so smart. That's very smart.
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  And to your point, keeps people there. What do
• 11:42
  you suggest for somebody who are at a company
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  that they don't have those opportunities or avenues?
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  Like, do you go outside the company? Like, how
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  do you handle that if you don't have that internally?
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  I think it's really healthy to surround yourself
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  with people who are doing the things you want
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  to do. And, you know, whether that's getting
• 11:58
  in community, like you and I have talked about,
• 12:00
  you know, being a member of the Outlier Project
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  or being on LinkedIn and seeing, you know, somebody
• 12:05
  makes a post that inspires you in some way, reaching
• 12:08
  out to them and saying, I really admired that
• 12:11
  post. It really spoke to me. Could you ever spare
• 12:14
  15 minutes for a coffee chat? When you talk to
• 12:18
  these people who are doing the things that you
• 12:20
  want to do, it makes you better. It helps you
• 12:23
  avoid some of the mistakes and the pitfalls,
• 12:25
  which invariably we all make. you're cultivating
• 12:29
  a network. And I made a really huge mistake at
• 12:32
  IBM. I thought that was my network. I thought
• 12:34
  my business partners, my clients, and the people
• 12:37
  that I worked with was my network. And it wasn't
• 12:39
  until I left that I went, oh crap, now what?
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  And all those people that were reaching out to
• 12:46
  me over the years, I was like, I don't know you,
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  nope, nope. And it was so dumb. My network would
• 12:52
  be so much bigger if I didn't do that. But this
• 12:56
  is a really warm place to be connected to people
• 13:00
  who are doing incredible things. And you would
• 13:03
  be surprised how many people would be open to
• 13:06
  doing a coffee chat and just getting to know
• 13:08
  you. Absolutely. I have experienced that in my
• 13:11
  career, just reaching out to people I didn't
• 13:12
  know. Actually, that's how we met. on LinkedIn,
• 13:15
  but you know, even I've said before, when I took
• 13:17
  my role as CEO, I started reaching out to other
• 13:20
  CEOs in the industry and just try and people
• 13:22
  are willing to share and hey, 10, 15 minutes
• 13:25
  and I make sure I return the favor. I just, I've
• 13:28
  talked to the committee the other week who never
• 13:29
  met, he reached out to me and he was like, Hey,
• 13:31
  I've been following your content forever. I'm
• 13:33
  also working for a founder. I would love your
• 13:35
  advice. So I mean, it's just that give and take
• 13:38
  relationship. And look, you built this beautiful
• 13:41
  show to support other women and women in our
• 13:45
  age and experience, it is our responsibility
• 13:47
  to pay it forward. And I mentor a lot of women
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  and I'm very happy to do it. And I'm helping
• 13:54
  to build the next generation of leaders. It's
• 13:57
  really, really important to me. But sometimes
• 14:00
  they just want to check themselves. Sometimes,
• 14:02
  you know, you just, Lindsay, I'm interviewing
• 14:04
  for this and I have some red flags. Can you just
• 14:06
  listen to this and tell me, you know, if I should
• 14:08
  be concerned? That perspective is gold, especially
• 14:13
  if it's from someone you really look up to. No,
• 14:16
  that's so true. That's been huge in my career
• 14:18
  and I will always do that. And it's funny because
• 14:20
  sometimes when you hear some of that negativity,
• 14:22
  it comes from older men, much older than us,
• 14:24
  who aren't always supportive. And here, it's
• 14:27
  because they didn't get the support. So instead
• 14:29
  of being positive and flipping and being like,
• 14:30
  I need to be supportive, they take that as like,
• 14:33
  well, no one helped me. So it's just flipping
• 14:35
  that as we move forward that we're doing that
• 14:37
  for the next generation. Love that you said that,
• 14:40
  Betsy. I think one of the things that I always
• 14:42
  say, if you're in a funk, if you are feeling
• 14:45
  really down and a little lost, the first and
• 14:48
  best thing you could do is do something for someone
• 14:50
  else. And the second you do that, it takes you
• 14:52
  out of your own head and you are enjoying the
• 14:55
  reaction to whatever it is you're doing, but
• 14:58
  it makes you feel really good. That's true. And
• 15:01
  I like to think about the whole what comes around,
• 15:03
  goes around positively and negatively, right?
• 15:06
  We'll call it karma. But if you're doing those
• 15:08
  things, it's just putting out that good energy,
• 15:10
  that good vibe. It's going to come back to you.
• 15:12
  So I think that's really important. I love that.
• 15:15
  Thanks. So let's talk about your book, Top Down
• 15:18
  Culture. So you actually, speaking of LinkedIn,
• 15:21
  had a... Oh, there we go. Beautiful. We'll link
• 15:23
  that on our website. You had a... LinkedIn post,
• 15:26
  speaking of LinkedIn, the other day that I loved,
• 15:28
  because I have not read your book yet. It's on
• 15:29
  my list. And you wrote, when people feel unseen,
• 15:32
  unsafe, or undervalued, they don't just disengage,
• 15:35
  they disappear. Sometimes physically, sometimes
• 15:37
  emotionally. Either way, the leader's legacy
• 15:40
  is the vacancy they leave behind. If you're a
• 15:42
  leader, you don't have the luxury of just doing
• 15:44
  your job. Your job is to inspire. Your job is
• 15:47
  to protect. Your job is to see people, really
• 15:49
  see them, and make sure they know they matter.
• 15:52
  I love that. I have goosebumps. Who wrote that?
• 15:55
  I know. I should have told you to read it, but
• 15:57
  I like... It's so true. And I will tell you,
• 16:02
  I have watched leaders do... horrendous things
• 16:07
  and I've watched people shrink into the background
• 16:10
  become a fraction of who they were and Lose all
• 16:14
  confidence and all the wind in their sails I
• 16:17
  have watched leaders literally jump on tables
• 16:20
  and curse and scream at people I've watched leaders
• 16:23
  throw things and then I've also watched leaders.
• 16:26
  I've had a number of them who saw me understood
• 16:30
  I had major chops and great things to bring to
• 16:33
  the table and they gave me incredible autonomy
• 16:35
  and said things like, how do you want to run
• 16:38
  the business? What do you want to know? Holy
• 16:42
  crap, that's amazing. Yeah, let's go. But when
• 16:46
  you give someone the space to do the job they're
• 16:49
  hired for. and you trust them to do that job.
• 16:53
  Hey, guys, if people interviewed for a job and
• 16:56
  they got the job, let them do it. Stop micromanaging
• 17:00
  them. Stop overseeing everything they're doing,
• 17:04
  because all you're doing is telling them you
• 17:06
  don't trust them. And trust is your currency.
• 17:09
  So when you build trust, that is when all of
• 17:13
  the magic happens. And one of the tips that I
• 17:16
  love to give leaders when you're starting out
• 17:18
  with a new team, is to say, and this is a humbling
• 17:22
  question, you are admitting you don't know everything,
• 17:24
  but you say, how can I be the best leader for
• 17:27
  you? Because I don't know. I don't know what
• 17:30
  you need. And everyone's going to give you a
• 17:33
  different answer based on age, based on tenure,
• 17:37
  based on experience, based on goals. And so the
• 17:40
  cool part about that is you get to meet people
• 17:42
  where they are. They're going to tell you, you
• 17:45
  know what? I know I'm on this marketing team,
• 17:47
  but I really like analytics. If you have an analytics
• 17:50
  opportunity, I'd love to jump in. Or I don't
• 17:54
  know what the heck I'm doing in this job. I was
• 17:56
  moved over from an acquisition and I would love
• 17:58
  a mentor. I'd love someone on the team who's
• 18:01
  doing really well to just show me the ropes.
• 18:04
  If you don't ask, you don't know. And it's akin
• 18:09
  to parenting, right? If you have children, you
• 18:13
  cannot parent them all the same. You can have
• 18:15
  the same house rules, but your kids need different
• 18:19
  things. And so does everybody else. So figuring
• 18:22
  out what makes people tick, what makes them shine,
• 18:26
  how they like to be recognized. That's an easy
• 18:28
  question. Do you like your name and lights or
• 18:31
  do you like to fly quiet under the radar? Do
• 18:34
  you want to just be in an email or do you want
• 18:36
  to be on stage? Because I've seen people recognize
• 18:41
  terrible introverts, they're not terrible, but
• 18:43
  they're terribly introverted, and to put them
• 18:48
  on stage, they would rather die. That is not
• 18:51
  fun for them. So just asking those questions
• 18:53
  makes you a better leader. It makes you way more
• 18:56
  in tune with your people. And when you start
• 18:58
  at the top, with this kind of philosophy. If
• 19:01
  you are a CEO, you can call on any leader across
• 19:04
  the org and say, what's going on with your team?
• 19:07
  Tell me who's struggling. Tell me what they need.
• 19:09
  What are they asking for? I'll tell you a cool
• 19:12
  story. A friend of mine worked at Salesforce
• 19:15
  and he was a good sales rep. He was doing a good
• 19:18
  job and he just wasn't fulfilled. And his boss
• 19:22
  was like, you know, what's going on? And he's
• 19:24
  like, you know, I have this idea for a job and
• 19:26
  I really would like to work with all of the executives
• 19:29
  across Salesforce. I would like to coach them
• 19:32
  on, you know, being the best leaders they can,
• 19:35
  understanding the culture and being that kind
• 19:37
  of go between to really watch talent across the
• 19:40
  organization. He's like, well, that job doesn't
• 19:42
  exist. Well, it just so happened the next day
• 19:45
  that manager was with the CEO and he's like,
• 19:48
  so what's going on in your team? And he said,
• 19:50
  well, I have this one rep and he's good, but
• 19:52
  he had this idea to do this job. CEO loved it.
• 19:57
  He said, make it happen. Oh my gosh. And he got
• 19:59
  the job and he did this for years and he built
• 20:02
  this entire framework for all the sales leaders
• 20:05
  across Salesforce. It was a phenomenally cool
• 20:07
  job. So fulfilled. He knew every executive knew
• 20:11
  everything about their teams and what they needed.
• 20:14
  But if you don't ask, you don't know. That is
• 20:17
  so huge and so important because you think about
• 20:19
  how that manager leader relationship works with
• 20:22
  their team, it's always to do list, right? What
• 20:25
  are you doing? What do you need help with? Like,
• 20:26
  and it just gets very tactical. And of course
• 20:28
  that has to happen. But there's that piece of,
• 20:30
  and there's performance really switched. That's
• 20:32
  a whole other conversation. But ask for feedback.
• 20:38
  Like how can I help you? What are you doing?
• 20:40
  What do you need? I just, I don't think that
• 20:42
  happens. And I think back to like relationships
• 20:44
  and conversations I've had, but it's like asking
• 20:46
  how you can help support them. Well, and that
• 20:49
  whole idea of I don't have time to meet with
• 20:52
  my people. Get out of the damn job. You are in
• 20:56
  the wrong job. You are responsible to your people.
• 21:00
  And if your calendar is so overloaded with meetings,
• 21:03
  which are likely a lot of management mumbo jumbo
• 21:06
  that probably could have been an email. Let's
• 21:08
  be honest. You're doing it wrong. And you either
• 21:13
  have to push back or make time on your calendar
• 21:15
  to meet with your people regularly. And to help
• 21:18
  support them, right? Not to try to do their job,
• 21:21
  do the micromanagement, get into the weeds. It's
• 21:24
  to help support them to do their job. And I think
• 21:26
  that's where people miss the whole concept of
• 21:29
  leadership or management. They think, oh, it's
• 21:31
  higher title, higher pay. Power. Yeah. That they
• 21:36
  miss the whole point of what it actually entails
• 21:39
  and what their day should look like. And you're
• 21:40
  right. It's not a studio list and a hundred meetings.
• 21:43
  It's supporting your team. I think so many people
• 21:45
  mistake getting into leadership with a ladder
• 21:48
  they need to climb. And they're not really considering
• 21:51
  the fact that they are responsible to people.
• 21:55
  And I know, I mean, we've all, we've all seen
• 21:57
  it where the top performer gets promoted and
• 22:01
  you know, that person doesn't give a rat's ass
• 22:03
  about anybody. And they're so frustrated that
• 22:06
  their team isn't doing exactly what they did.
• 22:09
  And so, Everyone's disenfranchised with each
• 22:12
  other. It's likely a toxic situation. That person
• 22:15
  probably manages up very well, and you've just
• 22:18
  decimated your culture. So stop doing that, please.
• 22:21
  Yes. I have seen that more than, well, 500 times.
• 22:25
  So if you're the employee member listening to
• 22:28
  this, and you have the boss who's not doing that,
• 22:32
  how do you... How do you deal with that? Right?
• 22:34
  Like how does your miserable, you're feeling
• 22:36
  micromanaged. You're probably not producing the
• 22:38
  way that you should. Like, how do you handle
• 22:40
  that? I just talked to a client yesterday about
• 22:43
  this and she has a new manager who is kind of
• 22:47
  doing the whole, there's a new sheriff in town
• 22:49
  and he has his own ideas about how things should
• 22:52
  go. And he is not taking the time to understand
• 22:55
  her, to get to know her, to see all the depth
• 22:58
  and breadth of relationships that she's built.
• 23:00
  And he has his, I mean, Unfortunately, she saw
• 23:05
  that he scheduled a meeting with HR, which I
• 23:09
  think it likely means he's trying to move her
• 23:11
  out of business. And so she's devastated and
• 23:13
  she's going, what do I do? And the first thing
• 23:16
  I said, you know, if you like the company that
• 23:18
  you're at, now's the time to go do those informational
• 23:21
  interviews. Now's the time to find those leaders
• 23:23
  in the other parts of the business. Maybe you've
• 23:25
  worked with them before. Maybe you know who they
• 23:27
  are. Maybe they know who you are. Reach out and
• 23:30
  start saying, hey, I'm popping my head up. I'm
• 23:33
  looking for something new. Do you, are you hiring
• 23:36
  or do you know anybody who is within the company?
• 23:39
  I don't want to leave. And if you've built a
• 23:43
  good reputation for yourself, most people are
• 23:45
  going to be pretty happy about those calls. There's
• 23:48
  always the whole like, Ooh, so and so no. And,
• 23:51
  you know, yes, you're going to have those political
• 23:53
  things, but you also have to protect yourself
• 23:57
  and staying under a leader. Like the one who
• 24:00
  fired me is. Not only bad for you emotionally,
• 24:05
  it's really bad for you psychologically and nobody
• 24:08
  should stay in that type of climate. I'm not
• 24:11
  saying get out of corporate and go be an entrepreneur.
• 24:14
  I'm saying, you know, look around, see who's
• 24:17
  hiring. If there's a place that you can land
• 24:19
  in your company, that's an easier move than starting
• 24:22
  from scratch at another company. It's not to
• 24:25
  say you wouldn't get more money. You very well
• 24:26
  could, but this is a really volatile time. And
• 24:31
  it's real hard to land jobs right now. The market
• 24:35
  is full of job seekers and you need to set yourself
• 24:39
  up for success. And so greasing the skids and
• 24:42
  reaching out to people outside of your reporting
• 24:45
  chain is really important. That's very good advice.
• 24:48
  So do you think we'll call them bad leaders.
• 24:50
  Do you think most of them know they're bad and
• 24:53
  do you think they can ever change? I think we
• 24:55
  got two problems. One, they don't know that they're
• 24:58
  bad and two, they don't care. oh so you know
• 25:02
  when i look back at some of the worst leaders
• 25:04
  i had there was a lot of them it was a total
• 25:08
  power play for them yeah i actually had listen
• 25:10
  to this i had this story this is terrible i had
• 25:13
  this leader we were in uh it was like a happy
• 25:16
  hour we had our business partners there i don't
• 25:19
  remember what the event was and i said oh i want
• 25:21
  to introduce you to one of my business partners
• 25:23
  and so i brought them over and i said oh this
• 25:26
  is my boss so and so Oh, nice to meet you. Nice
• 25:29
  that he's exchanged. Fine. The business partners
• 25:31
  leave the room and then he's addressing the rest
• 25:34
  of us. So there's over a hundred people in the
• 25:36
  room. And he said, Hey everyone, I just want
• 25:38
  you to understand something. Never introduce
• 25:42
  me as your boss. I am your manager. And I was
• 25:47
  like, is this really happening? So what he did
• 25:53
  was assert his power. but he fractured, let's
• 25:58
  say shattered my trust of him and I never wanted
• 26:03
  another thing to do with that man again. So I
• 26:06
  would do anything but work for him. And if it
• 26:11
  was like, I raised my hand all the time to do
• 26:13
  weird stuff. I was happy to do that. If his name
• 26:15
  was on it, I'm like, oh, you're on your own.
• 26:18
  I'll be over here. But that is a real nonsense
• 26:21
  way to lead. And that doesn't instill trust.
• 26:25
  It doesn't instill any kind of wisdom or that
• 26:29
  is a stupid semantics, who cares kind of thing.
• 26:33
  And he had so many choices with the way he could
• 26:35
  have handled that. He could have pulled me aside
• 26:37
  afterwards and say, hey, listen, I prefer that
• 26:39
  he introduced me as your manager. I would have
• 26:41
  been like, oh, God, I'm sorry. I didn't realize
• 26:43
  that was wrong. I don't think it's wrong either.
• 26:46
  But in his case, he was just asserting power.
• 26:50
  So don't be that guy. That's lousy. So you have
• 26:54
  these people that are in it for the wrong reasons.
• 26:57
  There's a lot of boys club stuff that still happens
• 27:01
  today. People promote who they know and who they
• 27:05
  feel safe with and who they can be exclusive
• 27:07
  with. I hated that exclusive style of management.
• 27:13
  It never inspired me and I always ran the other
• 27:16
  way and I never performed. when I was in that
• 27:20
  circumstance. Whenever I had somebody who gave
• 27:23
  me autonomy and said, you know, how else could
• 27:27
  we do this? What's a different way to approach
• 27:29
  this? I rose to the top every single time. So
• 27:32
  you really have to understand that those choices
• 27:34
  will have a direct impact on your results. And
• 27:38
  on your sanity. Hell yeah. There's nothing worse
• 27:42
  than being in a situation like that because it's
• 27:44
  not going to change, you know, and the person
• 27:46
  could go for coaching, get a 360, whatever it
• 27:48
  is, but they're, they're in the wrong position,
• 27:51
  which then has that trickle down. And he continued
• 27:53
  to get promoted over and over and over again.
• 27:59
  Crazy. Gross. So what are your other big takeaways
• 28:04
  from, you know, your heart? centered leadership
• 28:07
  or from top down culture that just, you know,
• 28:09
  if you can instill in the world, we'd be on a
• 28:12
  better place. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite things
• 28:14
  that I love to talk about is I don't call them
• 28:17
  soft skills. I call them power skills. And they
• 28:20
  are far too important to be called anything soft.
• 28:23
  So some of these are one of my favorite ones
• 28:25
  is delegation and delegation. Everyone's like,
• 28:28
  oh, I'm going to get stuff off my plate. Yes,
• 28:29
  that's true. But if you've been asking the question
• 28:32
  of how can I be the best leader for you, then
• 28:35
  you know what people are interested in. So if
• 28:38
  you have a project that you can delegate or you
• 28:42
  can let someone run point on, you do it. But
• 28:46
  you are responsible for that project. And if
• 28:49
  they fall down in their face, that's on you.
• 28:52
  They don't take that blame. I have been thrown
• 28:54
  under the bus before by people that delegated
• 28:56
  and it is. absolutely damaging. You shatter all
• 29:00
  trust and you won't ever do anything for them
• 29:02
  again. You won't stick your neck out for them
• 29:04
  anymore. So when you give them that opportunity,
• 29:07
  you have to say, I know you love analytics. I've
• 29:10
  got this analytics project. I would love you
• 29:12
  to run point on it. I'd love you to lead it.
• 29:15
  Are you comfortable with that? And if anything
• 29:17
  goes south, it's on me. You got that? My god.
• 29:21
  Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity boss. This is
• 29:23
  great. I'm excited. Let's go. You're giving them
• 29:26
  an opportunity to shine Your and guys. Oh my
• 29:30
  god. I can't say this enough When you celebrate
• 29:33
  the people on your team and you give them credit
• 29:35
  for the things that they are doing, that looks
• 29:38
  good on you. Yes. This leadership concept of,
• 29:42
  oh, if I give so and so credit, no one's going
• 29:45
  to think I'm a good leader. No, dummy. They work
• 29:47
  for you. This is great. You want your people
• 29:50
  to shine and you want them to talk about you.
• 29:53
  So. When you delegate when you celebrate celebrating
• 29:58
  people everyone can do this You do not need to
• 30:00
  be an HR leader to do this Anybody you can do
• 30:03
  it on LinkedIn. You can do it every day I try
• 30:05
  and do it every day when someone does even something
• 30:08
  this big That is so cool. You shout them out.
• 30:13
  You send them the text you you celebrate them
• 30:15
  publicly Whatever and that always looks good
• 30:19
  on you Oh my gosh, I can't like that comment
• 30:23
  enough. And I have always been a big advocate
• 30:25
  of that with my teams. And I've had people on
• 30:27
  my team who can't with that. And that's hard.
• 30:29
  Like this makes you look better. This isn't a
• 30:32
  competition. They support you. They're supposed
• 30:34
  to be lifting you up too. I have a little story.
• 30:37
  Can I tell you a little story that goes with
• 30:38
  that? I had a client and she was a VP and she
• 30:42
  had kind of a call center kind of set up. And
• 30:46
  so think of cubicles and prairie dogging and
• 30:48
  that whole thing. And she started to implement
• 30:52
  this little system she made up and she started
• 30:54
  putting sticky notes on people's desks. Whenever
• 30:57
  she heard that they did a great call or they
• 30:59
  had, you know, a really great review or whatever.
• 31:02
  And she'd just walk by and she'd put the sticky
• 31:03
  note on the desk. you'd see the sticky note and
• 31:07
  it would say like, you know, Betsy, phenomenal
• 31:09
  job with that last call. You know, it sounded
• 31:11
  great. And you're like, wow, she noticed and
• 31:14
  she's a VP. That's pretty cool. And so, you know,
• 31:17
  they'd see her walking around and they'd be like,
• 31:19
  oh, maybe she's coming to me. Maybe she's kind
• 31:21
  of so it raised the bar. Everybody started doing
• 31:24
  a little bit better. But the coolest thing that
• 31:26
  happened is everyone started doing it for each
• 31:29
  other. And so they'd be like, hey, Fred, nice
• 31:33
  job on that. And so it creates this infectious
• 31:37
  celebratory environment where people are excited
• 31:41
  to show up for each other. They're excited to
• 31:43
  help. They're excited to be connected. And she
• 31:46
  set that tone. And that's just from celebrating
• 31:49
  people. So imagine what that can do to your results
• 31:53
  when everybody is looking out for each other
• 31:56
  and saying, nice job. Like, that's not a threat
• 31:59
  to me when I say you did that really well. And
• 32:03
  imagine the difference in the environment, right?
• 32:05
  Like the energy, the support, the excitement,
• 32:08
  that just changes everything for everybody. So
• 32:11
  when you go to work, you're probably going in
• 32:12
  with a better attitude because you're happy to
• 32:15
  see people. And you know, when Fred gave you
• 32:18
  the sticky note that you didn't expect, you're
• 32:20
  like, what's up, Fred? Like all of a sudden,
• 32:22
  you've got a new friend. You've got someone you're
• 32:24
  a little more interested in, a little more connected
• 32:27
  to, and think where that can go. And it's a little
• 32:30
  post -it note. I mean, it's so simple. And I
• 32:33
  love the point that for a lot of times, as far
• 32:34
  as with the leader, other people got to get involved
• 32:37
  in getting aged and help support your team. That's
• 32:39
  huge. That's cool. Lindsay, this is amazing.
• 32:43
  I appreciate this conversation so much. So people
• 32:46
  want to connect with you. Find out where. Where
• 32:47
  can they find you? So my website is heartbeatforhire
• 32:50
  .com. All of my socials are connected there.
• 32:52
  I'm very active on LinkedIn. Please connect with
• 32:55
  me. Say you heard it here, loud and lifted. And
• 32:59
  yeah, I'm always happy to connect with other
• 33:01
  women and other people and other leaders. My
• 33:04
  whole mission in life is to change leadership
• 33:07
  as we know it and make it way more heart centered.
• 33:09
  So thank you for the opportunity to share. Oh
• 33:11
  my gosh, I love it. Thank you. And I totally
• 33:13
  support your approach for sure. Thank you, Lindsey.
• 33:17
  Pleasure. What I love about Lindsey is that she
• 33:19
  makes leadership feel both human and actionable.
• 33:22
  from power skills to the simple question, how
• 33:25
  can I be the best leader for you? She challenges
• 33:28
  us to step outside of our outdated, exclusive
• 33:30
  management styles and into creating cultures
• 33:33
  where people thrive. Her message pairs beautifully
• 33:36
  with what we learned from Linda Strange about
• 33:38
  the PI framework, performance, image and exposure.
• 33:41
  Lindsay reminds us that exposure is a necessity
• 33:44
  and leaders have to get it right when supporting
• 33:46
  their teams. If this conversation resonated with
• 33:49
  you, share it with a friend or coworker who needs
• 33:51
  a reminder of what great leadership looks like.
• 33:54
  And don't forget to follow Loud and Lifted on
• 33:56
  Instagram for more real, practical advice to
• 33:58
  help you lead louder. Until next time, stay loud
• 34:01
  and stay lifted.