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RERUN: Why Gen Z Wants to be Anonymous Online · Mini Scroll

0:00
On August 8th, 2021, Emma Chamberlain posted an update to
0:04
the Community tab on YouTube, written to her then 10.4 million
0:09
subscribers. Emma announced that she was
0:11
taking a hiatus from her channel quote, taking a few more weeks
0:15
off to think. I need to take my own advice on
0:18
taking a break when it's needed. This isn't a negative thing
0:21
though. I'm thinking a lot about how I
0:23
can evolve and make things that truly excite me.
0:26
I haven't taken a step back in a long time to ask myself what
0:29
that means. I love and appreciate you and I
0:32
will see you soon. Those few more weeks off soon
0:35
turned into half a year of radio silence from Emma on YouTube.
0:39
The creator was only 20 years old at the time and had already
0:42
achieved fame and fortune from her online career, which she
0:45
started in 2016 While still at high school.
0:48
Though Emma's success was built off sharing bits of her personal
0:51
life through her vlogs and podcast, this hiatus marked a
0:55
noticeable change in her content.
0:57
Her videos featured more visual storytelling, less personal
1:01
updates, and she felt more guarded than throughout her
1:05
earlier career. Emma had made the conscious
1:07
decision to become more private online, a choice that many other
1:11
young people, creators or not, have opted for in recent years
1:16
because unlike their millennial counterparts, Gen.
1:19
Z has experienced the perils of oversharing on social media
1:22
since before they were teenagers.
1:25
They understand the risks associated with being constantly
1:28
surveilled online, and they find the constant attention seeking
1:31
behavior required to build an online following quite frankly,
1:36
embarrassing. After growing up in a media
1:38
space plagued by cancel culture, misinformation, and virtually no
1:44
opportunity for anonymity, Gen. Z is replacing performance for
1:49
privacy. But what, if anything, does Gen.
1:52
Z's pursuit of privacy mean, then for the future of the
1:56
creator economy? From Centennial World, I'm
2:00
Lauren Meisner, and this is Infinite Scroll, a podcast about
2:05
Internet culture, the creator economy, and how social media is
2:09
shaping Gen. Z.
2:10
Welcome back to Infinite Scroll, everyone.
2:14
All right, so I have a little update.
2:16
I am feeling quite I'll this week.
2:18
I'm very under the weather. So this is actually an updated
2:22
encore episode from season three where Jordy and I explored why
2:28
Gen. Z is more private online than
2:29
other generations and what this means for the future of social
2:33
media. So we've never done an encore or
2:36
like a rerun before. I know a lot of podcasts that I
2:38
listen to do this quite often, I guess when they have a week off
2:42
or if they just need some extra time to prep.
2:44
We've never done it. So I hope that those of you,
2:46
especially the ones that found us last year and maybe haven't
2:49
listened to our back catalog yet, hopefully you enjoy it.
2:53
Hopefully you learn something and you enjoy kind of the OG
2:56
vibes with Jordy. Now, this episode was also
2:59
recorded prior to us filming everything for YouTube.
3:02
So if you're listening to this or watching this on YouTube,
3:05
you'll still be able to listen to the full episode, but you
3:07
just won't see myself or Jordy talking.
3:10
And in terms of some updates, I wanted to share a couple little
3:13
things for you this week. So the first big thing that's
3:17
happening is Centennial World, the media brand that the podcast
3:21
it's under. We have made the decision to
3:26
cease publishing on Instagram, which is a really wild decision
3:31
as a publisher. It feels almost like a legal to
3:34
do as a publisher, but there was a few reasons for that.
3:37
The 1st is that meta? I'm sure if you guys are in the
3:40
social space you would have, you know, seen this or heard about
3:43
this. But meta has made the decision
3:45
to stop or I guess start deprioritizing news and like
3:50
political content. Quote, UN quote.
3:51
But what qualifies as political content is very murky and it's
3:57
quite unclear and a lot of the stuff that we cover when it
4:00
comes to creators like even you know our topic last week on Trad
4:03
Wives that could be considered quote UN quote, political.
4:06
So you know that was kind of part of the decision for sure.
4:11
That was a recent development that Meta decided to make.
4:14
But I would say the bigger reason why we decided to do this
4:18
is just because the Instagram like the Centennial World
4:22
Instagram not the infinite scroll podcast Instagram but the
4:24
Centennial World Instagram. It has been like my cross to
4:28
bear for the last four years since we launched.
4:30
Content is kind of my job and I just could not figure it out.
4:36
I tried so many different things, you know, the things
4:39
that I would post on there, if I posted on any other platform,
4:42
Pinterest or TikTok or whatever, they would do so well on those
4:46
other platforms. It never did well on Instagram
4:48
at all. Growing the Instagram was so
4:51
difficult, it felt like impossible.
4:52
And I think I just had to come to terms with the fact that the
4:55
content that we're creating is not super conducive to
4:59
Instagram. Now maybe if we had launched the
5:02
business in Instagram's heyday like 2015, 2016, you know, we
5:06
would have a lots of followers naturally because of that.
5:09
But when it comes to analyzing the creator economy and Internet
5:14
culture topics and things like that, people like to absorb that
5:17
or like to consume that on TikTok.
5:20
They like to consume it on YouTube and in podcast format
5:23
and even newsletter like every other platform including our
5:26
site like every platform that we have have is consistently
5:29
growing and quite successful and the Instagram just was not so.
5:34
I actually worked with a business consultant at the
5:36
beginning of the year. And that was one of his first
5:40
pieces of advice to me was, you know, identify the places in the
5:44
business that you are spending time and energy and thus money
5:49
that are not working. And he literally said to me, if
5:52
you have been working on the Instagram account for four
5:54
years, it's not growing. It has never grown.
5:57
You've never monetized it. And it's not like you're just
6:00
seeing no results. They're like, why are you
6:02
beating a dead horse? Like, why are you still trying
6:04
this? And that was in January.
6:07
So it took me a few months to really grapple with the fact
6:09
that, like, as a publisher, maybe we shouldn't necessarily
6:13
focus on Instagram. But that was our decision.
6:16
So I pulled the plug on our Instagram account earlier this
6:20
week. I still like it still exists and
6:23
we've posted a few tiles to explain why our Instagram is
6:26
bare who we are, where you can actually find us, that kind of
6:28
stuff. I'm not sure if it will stay
6:30
like that forever. You know, I have thought maybe I
6:33
should make it like a brand portfolio almost kind of like a
6:37
LinkedIn, almost like, you know, like share snippets from the
6:40
Coach event for example, that you guys came to share examples
6:44
of different campaigns we're working on.
6:45
When I speak on panels on behalf of the brand share that like
6:48
just those kinds of things, I thought maybe we could do that
6:52
as like a snapshot of the brand. But for now with the limited
6:55
time and resources that I have at the moment, I'm just going to
6:59
keep it as is. So that was a pretty big
7:01
decision. I know some of you guys like the
7:02
business updates, some of you don't really care, but for those
7:05
that do, but this ties in to my next update.
7:10
I don't want to necessarily give it away, but in the tiles that I
7:16
posted on Instagram, sharing that we're no longer publishing
7:19
on Instagram and kind of explaining who we are, I left a
7:23
little Easter egg and only so far one of you has at least
7:28
maybe more of you have seen it. But one of you has reached out
7:31
to say I found the Easter egg. I cannot believe it.
7:35
So go take a look. That's a little hint for you
7:37
guys on what's to come next for this podcast.
7:41
OK, so as always, Please remember to rate, review and
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subscribe. It means so much to me.
7:47
It helps me grow. It keeps me going.
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Please sign up to our newsletter, which is called
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Infinite Scroll. On Wednesdays we send out a
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commentary article about a trend, creator, drama or news.
7:58
And on Fridays we round up the five biggest thing pieces about
8:01
Internet culture on the Internet that week.
8:04
And also join our Geneva group called Infinite Scroll, where
8:07
you can chat with other people who are also obsessed with
8:10
Internet culture and drama and tea and all of that.
8:13
And you can talk to me. All right, Here are some reviews
8:15
that we got this week. I love reading these out.
8:18
So Hottie XOX Rach said. I absolutely loved this episode.
8:23
So informative but in a fun way. About the Trad Wife episode.
8:26
So thank you so much. Rach means so much.
8:28
She said that on Spotify. Big boy Becky on YouTube says, I
8:31
particularly love this episode because it's a very informative
8:34
video, both politically and socially.
8:36
I personally find making food from scratch, especially for
8:39
your kids, such an obviously performative and unrealistic
8:41
act, but so many are eating it up it's just not feasible.
8:46
But then again, they are sellers of an unattainable and
8:48
inherently racist lifestyle, so it makes sense that it appears
8:51
comical from the outside. Thank you for continuing
8:54
Infinite Scroll. Looking forward to your future
8:56
plans. Thank you.
8:59
And then Hannah said in my DMS OG listener Hannah, she's with
9:04
Lauren Dash and I absolutely loved this week's podcast.
9:08
Such a fascinating topic and so well presented as always.
9:11
I audibly gasped and scared the dog a few times.
9:14
Can't wait for more. Dash is her dog.
9:16
Thank you Hannah. So as I said, this is a rerun
9:19
that has been re edited for you guys from season three while I'm
9:23
kind of recovering from being you know, under the weather,
9:28
overwhelmed, exhausted, needing a bit of a break this week but I
9:32
will be back next week with a brand new topic, a brand new
9:35
episode. Can't wait to chat with you guys
9:37
then. So without further ado, I hope
9:39
you liked the episode. So we are going to.
9:41
Be talking about the concept of like privacy online and why
9:46
we're seeing this shift in Gen. Z away from being super public
9:50
and open online to seeking privacy and anonymity.
9:56
I'm sorry, I I've struggled with that word online.
9:59
It's it gives me and then an enemy like that.
10:04
What was that word that I couldn't say when we did the
10:06
lebrance? Evangelical.
10:08
Yeah. Yeah, you got it first time.
10:10
Yeah, I got it bad. It's.
10:12
Because it because it wasn't like over and over and over
10:14
again like you get in your head about it.
10:16
Yes, 100%. So this week we're going to be
10:19
pulling from two different articles that we think really
10:21
facilitate an interesting conversation around this.
10:24
And you know, there's obviously a lot of discussion that's
10:26
starting about this. So the first one is written by
10:29
Caitlin Tiffany at The Atlantic. The piece that's called the
10:32
Personal brand is dead. So the piece explores how for
10:36
millennials, being famous online was really cool.
10:39
So millennials are the first generation of people to become
10:42
like genuine influencers and make enough money to turn it
10:45
into a full time job. So they were essentially seen
10:48
like the early days of influencers were seen as Trail
10:50
Blazers, Like they basically carved out this entire new
10:54
career for themselves. Hello, As people have become
10:57
more accustomed to the concept of an influencer and we've seen
11:00
the process and expectations evolve.
11:03
Like often for the worst. Gen.
11:05
Z are rebelling against this idea and instead almost find
11:08
having a large social media presence embarrassing.
11:12
I find that so. Like, I find that in general
11:15
embarrassing because interesting because I was saying to
11:19
Courtney, I think that she didn't want to watch the summary
11:22
turned pretty on Amazon Prime because her friend told her that
11:25
it was like, cringy. I haven't seen it.
11:28
But, like, that's real life, you know, like I said this the other
11:31
week, like, I just think it's so funny that we're just so used to
11:33
everything being so scripted. And that's not how real life
11:38
actually is. Like, when you're 16, which is
11:40
what, the age of the people in the summer, I turn pretty.
11:42
Like that is real life, that everything feels a little bit
11:45
awkward and uncomfortable and you don't actually know, like
11:48
what you're doing and just, like, fumbling around.
11:50
So I feel like Gen. Z thinks so much is
11:52
embarrassing, which I think is hilarious.
11:55
Did you ever watch the show Love?
11:58
No. Jillian Flynn, Is that her?
12:00
Jillian. No, that's an author.
12:02
Jillian. Oh, something.
12:04
But she's in community. But it's like that.
12:06
It's like, you watch it and it's about like, yeah, like a couple
12:09
that kind of finds love. But it's like, it's so awkward,
12:13
but it's so real. Like, it's so raw and like,
12:16
that's what it's like when you first kind of meet someone and
12:19
start dating them or start kind of 1 views into each other and
12:22
the others not like. And it's like all those cringey
12:24
moments that you want to die. And then you think of the flip
12:26
side like Gossip Girl, which is like the complete opposite.
12:30
It's like they're supposed to be what, like 1516?
12:32
And they're like, so witty, so mature, so polished.
12:37
And you're just like This is so unrealistic, but it's also so
12:40
good, yeah. But you don't know that if
12:43
that's all the media you're consuming is that same kind of
12:46
really polished scripted content that it seems like really
12:51
jarring to see the awkward real life version, but that's it's
12:54
more, it's more realistic, you know.
12:56
So Caitlin Tiffany explains that this like, move away from having
13:01
large social media followings is evident in like a resurgence of
13:05
apps like Tumblr and Discord, which obviously allows for like
13:09
anonymous voice and text conversations.
13:12
And like crafting like how Tumblr works, you're like
13:15
crafting your personal brand, but in a way that, like, nobody
13:18
knows who you are. So she explains that like
13:21
crafting A cohesive, persistent personal brand, which is
13:24
something millennials were really excited to do.
13:26
And I feel like part of the appeal was like competing to who
13:29
could create the best personal brand, who could show, like who
13:33
could have the best life and like represent that in the best
13:36
way. So now that seems like something
13:38
that's been, it seems like exhausting to Gen.
13:41
Z. As a result, it seems like
13:42
something they're like not willing to participate in.
13:45
They don't wanna curate this image of their life.
13:47
They're like I'm tired. Well, yeah.
13:49
Like, it's literally so much work to try and have a personal
13:53
brand, especially if you're just a regular person.
13:56
Like, I feel like the concept of a personal brand and how like
13:59
everybody has to have a personal brand online because obviously
14:02
we all have social media and whatever.
14:04
Like that was a concept that I feel like was fed to us by these
14:08
like productivity gurus and like coaches and this is like fed to
14:13
millennials. And I mean, we were again, like
14:15
we've talked about this so many times, but like the first
14:17
generation obviously that grew up with like social media, the
14:20
first generation on social media really like as a generation.
14:23
So we did think like it was important to have this kind of
14:27
really polished, cohesive personal brand.
14:29
But I just think for Gen. Zed, they see that they don't
14:32
necessarily need that there's already been some kind of trial
14:35
and error. It's exhausting the idea of like
14:37
Gen. Zed like ditching the personal
14:38
brand. Like it totally tracks with how
14:40
they see work in general, right. Like they don't subscribe to
14:44
like this romanticization of Labor the way that millennials
14:48
do. They don't subscribe to like,
14:50
Hustle culture. So to them, they're like, why
14:52
would I turn my personal social media that I use to like,
14:55
connect with my friends and like, follow the things that I
14:58
like into work if I don't even work in this space, Like, if I'm
15:02
not trying to be, that's. So true.
15:04
It's so interesting how we were told that and I still very much
15:07
subscribe to this mentality that my like Instagram is a resume
15:13
almost. And I know it's different in
15:15
creative industries. It's like exacerbated a little
15:17
bit as well. But that is like what you're
15:19
putting out to the world. And because we're so like
15:22
interconnected now, you know, like we're doing work trips to
15:24
the US and between Canada and Australia and all this stuff,
15:27
it's like this is potentially how you get new business because
15:32
people find you like intriguing or put together or like
15:35
intelligent like these. All the kind of things that
15:37
we're trying to put out, like through our tiny, like little
15:41
grid on an app on our phone, like, are we OK?
15:43
But then I think about like, when I think about, yeah, that
15:46
concept of like us using social, social media as a resume, it is
15:50
different as like a business owner, but still it's very much
15:53
like something that our, our generation does.
15:56
But then I think about when we're hiring people and where we
16:01
hired Gen. Zed, like we have never hired
16:04
anybody that wasn't Gen. Zed so far.
16:06
If I look them up on Instagram and they're private, like I
16:09
don't even think about them like, OK, what?
16:10
Like, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't like impact my
16:13
decision. Like sometimes I don't even look
16:15
at somebody's Instagram because I'm just looking at their resume
16:18
and their writing samples or whatever.
16:20
Like, I just, I do think that we put a lot of pressure on
16:23
ourselves with this and it's not as big of a deal as, like our
16:26
parents told us it would be. Well, that's the thing.
16:30
At the beginning I was going through high school and I've
16:32
mentioned this on the podcast before.
16:34
We were having training courses by Internet experts to not put
16:37
like drunk photos of ourselves on Myspace or Facebook.
16:42
Because then by the time you want to get a job like however
16:44
many years later, like, they could easily resurface and the
16:48
police can only do. We will literally get scared
16:50
half to death by people coming in and saying the police can't
16:54
remove those images because once you've put it there, they've
16:57
probably been circulated like thousands of times that will
16:59
live online forever. Like the police can only do so
17:02
much. Like obviously there's a sliding
17:04
scale of what's embarrassing enough that you would like go to
17:06
the police and have removed and the whole revenge porn aspect is
17:10
like a whole other part of it. But I do think that we were
17:14
scared so much into like the way that we present online that it's
17:19
like affected and become a thread through like every single
17:22
thing we do now. So Kaitlyn Tiffany says in her
17:25
Atlantic piece, it seems like Gen.
17:27
Z is getting really tired of presentation culture, as you
17:29
might call it. So Zeke, a 21 year old biologist
17:33
and frequent Discord chatter told her the idea that
17:36
everything you do has to be a represent, has to be a
17:38
representation of your personal identity is just like crazy to
17:42
them. And I agree with what you said
17:44
as far as the gap they have, Gen.
17:46
Z have a better separation between work and home life.
17:49
Like they're not looking for them to be connected.
17:53
They want to go to work and then come home.
17:55
Like I think growing up in a pandemic, their formative years
17:58
have really shifted their expectation of what's worth
18:01
their energy because of the strain on their mental health
18:03
over the last few years between like world events and social
18:06
media. They do really want this
18:08
separation. And I think if you treat social
18:11
media as an extension of work, then it feels like work.
18:14
The writer credits the trend of like anonymity and this move
18:18
away from personal brand as a response to a few things.
18:22
So the first being security concerns, which we kind of
18:25
touched on. So this was really exacerbated
18:27
during the Black Lives Matter protest.
18:29
Like lots of young people downloaded Signal and encrypted
18:32
messaging app, which I understand to be like WhatsApp.
18:34
I don't really know the difference between Signal and
18:36
WhatsApp, but it is encrypted, so it's downloaded, they
18:40
downloaded it and communicated via Signal to avoid
18:43
surveillance. And then K Pop fans derailing
18:47
the Trump rally was another example of anonymous users
18:50
banding together to, like, instigate social change.
18:53
But that did feel like something extremely that felt like a
18:56
moment that was really heated and potentially dangerous.
19:00
So the anonymity for something like that was really important.
19:03
And then other activists were sharing tools to blur protesters
19:07
faces and Instagram stories. So I think we saw this with the
19:11
January 6th Capital riots, how social media was utilized like
19:15
in a negative way. It was utilized as a planning
19:17
and organizational tool for people with a shared ethos to
19:21
connect and then like organize to be in the same place in the
19:24
same time. And it really kind of like riled
19:26
people up together and help them organize the rights in the 1st
19:28
place. But then it became a tool for
19:30
people, for police to track down the people who were involved.
19:34
So heaps of people bragged about it on social media.
19:36
They got found, lots of people were identified from like social
19:39
media stories, like Instagram stories and Facebook stories and
19:43
then the police were able to track them down through that.
19:45
So we saw like kind of both sides of the security issues in
19:51
like a hated political circumstance like that.
19:54
Another reason she credits is the rise of Web 3 and crypto
19:57
culture. So the premise of crypto,
19:59
obviously is that transactions can be made online without the
20:03
exchange of personally identifying information and then
20:06
the rise of. NFTS to have seen people like
20:08
replacing their profile pictures with cartoons and like images
20:12
that aren't themselves, This personally feels really jarring
20:16
to me and I feel like it's not sustainable because like to buy
20:18
a house or get a loan or buy a car like you need to show your
20:21
identity and payslips and proof of funds and it has to be tied
20:25
to your like actual in real life personal identity.
20:29
So I feel like this reason for anonymity can't coexist with
20:32
real life. Like it feels like very Gen.
20:34
Z and futuristic. But I don't know, maybe I don't
20:37
see the vision. I feel like I'm talking like a
20:39
boomer, but like it almost has to exist in isolation.
20:43
Like you can't have grown up things and live a grown up life
20:46
and exist anonymously and live through crypto, you know?
20:49
I know. I really wish Sean was here.
20:51
So he could just like have a point, 'cause I just know he
20:55
would be like, well, This is why.
20:57
Or like or he would agree with you and have an explanation but
21:01
because I don't understand it well enough either.
21:03
But like Christine Quinn has that company where she you can
21:07
buy houses with crypto, you can't take out a mortgage with
21:09
crypto. So she is selling houses I'm
21:12
assuming outright. Or what I was thinking is would
21:17
it be her company buying houses like with real money and then
21:22
she is selling them for crypto? Possibly.
21:26
My understanding of Web three and the concept of crypto and
21:31
stuff is so that it's like decentralized, right?
21:34
So that it's like we take the power out of like the hands of
21:38
like the few elite in the world, like the banks and the
21:42
government and whatever, regulating how we spend our
21:45
money and how much things cost and whatever.
21:47
And it's like the power is back in your hands because everything
21:50
is anonymous and there's no way to trace it.
21:53
So maybe at the end of the day, like, you'll be buying, like
21:55
Christine will be brokering between me wanting to sell my
21:59
house and get paid in crypto to somebody that wants to pay in
22:02
crypto. So she's finding those two
22:04
people and is connecting them. And then I guess you just have a
22:07
contract drawn up that specifies that.
22:09
So it is like possible, I suppose It's just like kind of
22:12
finding a new God that like, understands it and is willing to
22:16
engage in a contract of like that kind.
22:18
I guess the concept is that in like, you know, whatever, 20
22:22
years you'll just have your wallet, like your crypto wallet
22:25
and that'll be like another bank account and you'll be able to
22:29
buy lots of things online for crypto and it might be possibly
22:33
way cheaper than, you know, real money or whatever, because it's
22:37
all decentralized. I don't know, we're very not
22:40
well versed in this guy, so I'm sorry if this is bothering you.
22:43
I. Actually try quite hard.
22:44
I just I I really struggle. I do feel like we need to do
22:47
like a training session in Web 3.
22:49
I yes, I need somebody to conduct a training session in
22:52
web three. Like what the fuck?
22:54
Like I consume so much content about like Internet culture and
22:58
same with you, like tech developments and everything.
22:59
And I still just like cannot. So if any of our listeners are
23:03
experts in Web Three hit us up, we need some explainers.
23:07
OK, so the third reason that Kaitlyn Tiffany references in
23:11
the Atlantic piece for this move towards anonymity is nostalgia.
23:14
So she explains Discord is an example of this and Suggests had
23:19
nostalgia amongst Gen. Z for the like foreign culture
23:22
that existed mostly before they were born.
23:24
So Tumblr is the same, she says. Tumblr was at its peak just
23:28
before the era of the Influencer and that's the feeling that Gen.
23:31
Z are chasing. They're chasing this time like
23:33
before the influencer existed. And these platforms let people
23:37
be known for their like point of view or what they can bring to,
23:40
say, a round table discussion, rather than like their face or
23:44
even their personality, which is what Instagram and Tiktok
23:47
function around. Yeah, like that makes sense.
23:51
I mean, my favorite corner of the Internet, like my favorite
23:54
place to be on the Internet is this is gonna like straight up
23:58
make me sound like a boomer. Speaking of sounding like a
24:00
boomer is being in my Facebook groups because they are like
24:05
Discord servers basically for like the podcast that I listen
24:08
to. And that's like the only I'm in
24:10
like dog spotting, which like everybody is in dog spotting.
24:13
And then I'm in, like, all the different Facebook groups for my
24:15
favorite podcasts. And like, I can't help if
24:18
they're on Facebook, OK, It's like, if you're in our Facebook
24:21
group, you can't help that we chose Facebook instead of
24:22
Discord. OK, so, like, don't shame me,
24:24
but it's like the best place to be because it's just this, like,
24:28
collective of people that have this, like, shared interests.
24:31
And I know in the article when she was interviewing Gen.
24:33
Z who are like, really into Discord service, it's the same
24:36
thing. It's like, it's so chill.
24:37
It's like people will post like something about pop culture and
24:40
be like, what's your opinion on this?
24:41
Or like, let's talk about this. And I just love to read
24:44
everybody's opinions. And it's just so calm and chill.
24:47
And there's not all these like weird assumptions and things
24:50
taken out of context the same way, if you had posted that on
24:53
Twitter, for example. So the second piece that we're
24:56
going to talk about is written by our writer Annabelle, and
24:58
it's called the pursuit for privacy.
25:00
What does anonymity mean online mean for Gen.
25:03
Z? So Annabelle justification is
25:06
slightly different for why Gen. Z prioritizes anonymity so
25:10
highly. She says it partly comes down to
25:12
the fact that Gen. Z content creators are acting as
25:15
role models, and they're taking a step back from their social
25:18
media presences and careers and influencing their young
25:20
audiences to do the same. So Annabelle's examples are best
25:25
dressed Joanna, Cedia, and even Emma Chamberlain.
25:29
Until recently, they've all left their social media platforms,
25:33
taking a step back at what seems to be the height of their
25:35
careers so a YouTube creator, Nicole Raffy.
25:38
She explains how influences that have risen from being, quote, UN
25:42
quote authentic are now seeing this conflict with their
25:45
privacy. So every part of the viral space
25:48
becomes commodified. And because of this, something
25:50
as simple as giving creators a video view or using their
25:54
discount code breeds a sense of entitlement among viewers.
25:58
So Nicole says that we detach creators, especially women, from
26:02
being human beings. They owe us something,
26:05
especially if we have helped them build their success.
26:07
If we gave them that, they owe us something in return.
26:10
So people, as a result, expect this unfiltered access to the
26:13
personal lives of these creators.
26:15
But because young people have grown up from the beginning,
26:18
watching people build their personal brand, it's like
26:20
they're only just discovering how good it feels to be no one
26:23
in particular or to try on different identities, Caitlin
26:26
writes for The Atlantic. So huge viral creators like Emma
26:29
Chamberlain are included in this.
26:31
Like she's been building a personal brand for so long that
26:34
she actually doesn't know what it's like not to be tied to the
26:38
version of herself that she's created on the Internet.
26:42
What's interesting about this, about what Nicole said about
26:46
how, like, we detach creators from being human beings and we
26:51
feel like they owe us something because we've given them their
26:53
careers. Like, I was listening to a
26:56
podcast a couple days ago and it was 2 pretty big influencers
27:01
talking about a cancellation. They didn't name the name, but
27:05
like, I would bet so much money that they were talking about
27:08
tanks. They were talking about how they
27:09
were messaging her to say, like, you know, you'll get through
27:12
this, whatever. They said that this person, I
27:16
think it's tanks, but it was definitely not confirmed.
27:18
But whoever it was responded to one of them and said, like, I'm
27:22
having a really hard time because I I've given these
27:25
people everything and look what they've done to me.
27:29
And I thought and they just said this in like a throwaway like
27:31
amongst their conversation. But it was so interesting to me
27:34
that this influencer like sees it that way, that they see it as
27:39
the reverse. Like I have given you all of me
27:43
and now you've turned on me. And it's like we feel the same.
27:47
We feel like we have given us viewers, like we have given you
27:50
everything. We've given you our time, our
27:53
energy, our support, our money, like all of these things.
27:57
It's so interesting how at the end of the day, both people feel
28:00
the exact same way. And it's such a transaction, but
28:03
there's still so much emotion involved in it. 100% It's like
28:07
neither can quite conflate how the other side feels, but they
28:10
think that they understand. So it it does make complete
28:14
sense that like influencers or creators like Emma Chamberlain
28:17
that have been doing this for literally her whole adult life,
28:21
for a lot of her teenage life too.
28:23
So at this point, people wanting to be anonymous or take a step
28:26
back from social media is merely mimicking whether they realize
28:30
it or not. They're just like reacting to
28:32
what their favorite creators are doing in this shift that they've
28:34
seen their creators like this realization moment for them and
28:38
then this step down moment. And we don't get to see if
28:40
they're happy or not. But you like, assume that
28:42
they're happy once they've left the Internet, like that was the
28:44
point. Otherwise they'd come back,
28:45
right? I mean that's so true with
28:47
everything, like look at how trends go on, even like
28:50
aesthetics. With Instagram it used to be
28:52
like having overly like Lightroom preset grids were like
28:57
super in and then it was like having no presets, normal grids
29:00
and now it's like having dark grids.
29:02
I am so tired of the dark aesthetic.
29:05
I don't want to see a practically pitch black photo of
29:08
you in Tuscany. I want to see the colors if you
29:10
are in Tuscany. I want to see the yellows and
29:13
the Blues and the greens. Like what is with this like, dim
29:16
light shit? 100 percent, 100%.
29:19
So what Annabelle brings up that's really important to look
29:22
at is the dark side of anonymity on social media.
29:26
So we've spoken about kind of like all the reasons that Gen.
29:28
Z want to be anonymous and why, that they feel like it's an
29:31
issue that they've had to do this.
29:33
But she also explains that while privacy comes with, you know,
29:36
freedom, flexibility and anonymity, it also encourages
29:40
trolls and misinformation to spread.
29:42
Users who hide behind faceless profiles feel a disconnect
29:46
between them as people and their online persona.
29:49
And because of this, a sense of anarchy has come to dominate
29:52
social media platforms and as a result it creates a really
29:54
dangerous environment. So the fact that we have become
29:57
so accustomed to seeing an onslaught of hate in any
30:01
particular comment section is like a really fucked up
30:05
adjustment that we're just like, what's that?
30:07
You know, that tick tock that's going around being like, what is
30:10
something that's a scam? It's been ingrained in you that
30:13
like it's not a scam. This is one of them.
30:16
The fact that anytime we go online, we can expect to see
30:19
like probably 50% love but 50% hate.
30:22
It's not even. A custom it's like expected.
30:24
Yeah, completely. So this is obviously
30:27
particularly prevalent with TikTok because as TikTok has
30:29
democratized viral stardom. Like anyone can go viral when it
30:34
happens accidentally, but Gen. Z wanna stay anonymous, it can
30:37
lead to situations like Couch Guy that end up really harmful
30:41
to those on the receiving end. And it also really plays into
30:45
like a mob mentality. And that's what we've spoken
30:47
about quite often is that when a faceless Nameless user makes a
30:55
point, it then like validates everyone else.
30:58
It has same like harmful commentary to then like speak up
31:02
or get behind like that point of view.
31:04
And I thought it was really interesting when you brought up
31:05
the Facebook group thing that you said everyone's pop culture
31:08
commentary was really interesting and everyone was
31:10
like engaged, but it was like a pleasant environment.
31:13
That's because people have their names and their profiles
31:16
attached. And I obviously that's not
31:17
always the case with Facebook, but I feel like that is where
31:21
there's a massive gap between the way people engage on
31:23
Facebook and the way that people engage on TikTok.
31:26
And there is consequences in these communities like if you
31:30
are being like bullying or sending hate or being even just
31:34
like, you know, communicating in like a really not civil way,
31:38
like you'll just be kicked out. And so it's like if you really
31:40
value being part of this group and in this community and
31:43
whatever, like you're going to be respectful and have like
31:45
respectful debate. The same way that, like you
31:47
know, you would hope if you were standing in front of somebody
31:49
who had a difference of opinion to you, you wouldn't be
31:51
screaming in their face telling them that they should go kill
31:54
themselves. I think it is good for Gen.
31:56
Zed to take as much of their personal information offline as
32:02
possible. I think.
32:02
I just think right now the Internet is like, not a very
32:04
safe place. I think there's like a lot of
32:07
doxing going on. There's like so much cyber
32:09
bullying. And I don't know if you've seen
32:12
that meme. That's like, how do mofos get
32:16
cyber bullied? Like, just log off, bro.
32:19
But like, you also can't really get cyber bullied if people
32:22
don't know who you are 'cause they're not actually bullying
32:24
you. Yes, but.
32:26
I think that's also kind of where the problem is, is that
32:30
because people don't actually have to like stand behind their,
32:34
the messaging that they're putting out, they like, say all
32:38
this outrageous stuff that would never fly in real life like you.
32:41
It's the same, it's the same point.
32:42
It's like you wouldn't go up to somebody and say you should
32:45
drink bleach to cure COVID, you know, something like that.
32:47
But then when you're online and you don't have a name attached,
32:51
like if you believe that you can spread that message without
32:54
actually having it like attached to you.
32:56
Also, I feel like people are more likely to say that like
32:59
darkest things that they really mean.
33:02
Yes, I guess. So I guess how I'm like
33:05
approaching it in my thoughts is like in terms of Gen.
33:08
Zed's like mental health. If more people become anonymous,
33:12
like if Gen. Zed becomes more and more
33:14
anonymous and like future generations start becoming more
33:17
and more private because they see how millennials just we
33:19
absolutely just fucked everything up for ourselves.
33:22
There will be less people to attack and and I think people
33:26
will start to lead their lives more and more offline, which is
33:30
like just good in general. I actually, I think you're
33:33
right. I think that the point that you
33:35
made about the Facebook groups and how it's it's a privilege to
33:38
be a part of that community. So you have to abide by the
33:42
rules and regulations and moderation that's in place.
33:46
And I think apps like Geneva that I just wrote about, so it's
33:49
like a chat. It's basically combined the chat
33:51
functions of every other app and put it in one place.
33:55
And then you can join like Facebook group, esque groups.
33:59
So there were all these groups like I joined like Gen.
34:01
Z, girl gang and you can join like female founder group.
34:04
So it's kind of taking the premise of Facebook groups and
34:08
like kind of building a community around like a shared
34:10
interest. And that's the priority more so
34:13
even than like connecting with your friends because you're
34:15
friends, you would just like text.
34:17
So you have that Direct Line to your friends and then you have
34:20
like a moderated community that you're you feel like it's a
34:25
privilege to be a part of and is really like closely monitored as
34:29
far as the kind of things you say.
34:30
So maybe, like that's the direction of social media, that
34:33
there will be nothing in the middle where people this kind of
34:36
like trolling and misinformation and like horrible hate speech
34:39
actually like, comes to exist. Well, I was telling Sean about
34:44
be real because obviously I was doing it like, I only just got
34:46
it when we started the vacation. And then he was like, so how do
34:52
you grow a following? And I was like, you don't.
34:54
That's the point. Like, it's just your friends.
34:56
Like it's all about like connecting with people and like
34:58
maybe they will eventually roll out different like features for
35:02
that and stuff, but it reminds. Me more of like.
35:03
Snapchat where it's just like about connecting with the people
35:07
that you know or the things that you care about and whatever.
35:10
And like I do think that is 100% the future of social media.
35:13
I think it is tough because like the influencer industry is just
35:17
so big now. Like, I don't think we can ever
35:19
go backwards, but it'll be interesting to see if future
35:24
generations even download Instagram, for example, you
35:28
know, or if they just do things like be real.
35:30
It is. It does feel like a hot take,
35:32
but the all the existing influences will continue to
35:36
exist and they will like they'll live out and grow their careers
35:41
as they would as they age. But we might not be seeing many
35:45
new influences from Instagram are kind of coming through.
35:49
Like there will be kind of an age cut off of people that
35:52
decided they weren't interested in building a following on that
35:56
platform. But I think it will manifest in
35:58
different ways because it's interesting that everyone
36:00
they're doing social media or like content creator courses now
36:05
at universities and stuff like that.
36:06
And there was this mentality for a really long time that everyone
36:09
wants to be an influencer. And I think that kind of premise
36:12
has existed for long enough that they're that we're realizing
36:15
that isn't actually the case. No, I agree.
36:18
And I think Gen. Zed is too smart and just future
36:20
generations will just be too smart.
36:22
They'll see the downsides to it. I think one of the biggest
36:26
reasons why Gen. Zed is pursuing privacy is
36:30
because of the way that online culture functions at the moment.
36:34
I think that plays a much bigger role in why they are pursuing
36:38
privacy rather than to them, it's just like trying to be cool
36:42
or it's like the new trendy thing that their favorite
36:45
influencers are doing. Because if you think about it,
36:47
this kind of shift in social media and influencer culture
36:51
started happening around like 2020 and 2020 was like literally
36:57
such an influential year. And like, I know that people
37:00
talk about it, but I think it's a much like in terms of how the
37:04
online world functions and the viral space functions.
37:07
I don't think we give this one year enough credit, if that
37:12
makes sense. Like it completely changed life
37:15
online, like and it changed how regular Internet users showed up
37:20
online. It changed how we expect
37:22
influencers and celebrities to show up online because like
37:25
before 2020, like obviously cancel culture and
37:28
accountability culture and all of that existed.
37:30
But it wasn't even close to the magnitude that it is now.
37:34
And I just think that year in particular was this like perfect
37:37
storm between what happened to George Floyd and BLM, the Trump
37:42
election, obviously COVID and then TikTok blowing up at the
37:46
same time. It was like this perfect storm,
37:49
and it felt like this pressure cooker of a time where, like,
37:52
people all around the world felt like life was literally the
37:55
worst that had ever been. And then like two years later,
37:58
now we sit here and it's like things haven't gotten really any
38:01
better. Like a lot of people feel like
38:03
things have actually just kept getting worse, especially if you
38:06
live in America. So I think 2020 was like this
38:09
pivotal year where like everyone felt so completely out of
38:14
control in their lives. And we haven't really regained
38:17
like any of that control since. And like I would theorize that
38:22
this majorly seeped into how people showed up online and it
38:27
forever changed the Internet. Because if you are somebody and
38:30
like you're able to call someone out for something that you think
38:33
is wrong and you're getting like tangible results from it, where
38:36
people like, jump on board, they validate your anger, they help
38:40
you create change, whether that's like someone deleting a
38:44
video, making an apology or like ending their career.
38:48
Like that type of situation gives people back that sense of
38:52
control that we feel like we've completely lost since 2020.
38:56
And I feel like that's a sense of control that a lot of people
38:59
don't feel like they have in the external world now.
39:01
And like obviously this shift in how like regular Internet users
39:05
now engage online has had a major impact on influencers and
39:10
creators and what they are now willing to share.
39:13
Because we genuinely do not give people a lot of grace.
39:17
We rarely give anyone like the benefit of the doubt.
39:21
And there's this, this snowball effect that like one single
39:25
person taking issue with something you said or did and it
39:29
will just snowball like you said, like mob mentality in a
39:32
way that it just like never used to.
39:35
Nobody gives anybody the benefit of the doubt anymore.
39:38
Yeah, it truly is like bad for both sides.
39:42
I mean, only bad in a sense that it it's it's become so extreme,
39:46
like people have gotten meaner because they feel like their
39:49
opinion, regardless of what it is, will be validated whether
39:51
they're anonymous or not. But it's easier when they're
39:54
anonymous and it's bad for influencers because the
39:57
expectation has changed and it shifted, like you said,
40:00
basically overnight in this pressure cooker over year where
40:04
they'd grown their accounts or their followings in a completely
40:07
different social and political. Climate.
40:09
So it's it's saying that they didn't sign up for this feels
40:13
like a bit of a like Band-Aid statement, but I truly feel like
40:17
so many influencers and creators didn't sign up for the way like
40:21
how volatile the Internet is now and how enraged and exhausted
40:25
everyone is. And I think the response to
40:27
that, like we said, in most cases, is just for people to log
40:30
the fuck off, to not be online for their own mental health, for
40:33
the creators themselves, but also for us.
40:36
It's like when you as a user, like when you're looking at, you
40:39
know, say the Roe V Wade Twitter thread, like that is the most
40:44
depressing place to be. But there's also something
40:47
drawing you in that you cannot help but to continue to read and
40:51
to spiral out of control. And so it's is it not a healthy
40:54
option to like, not engage at all?
40:56
I think the pendulum is going to have to swing back at some
40:59
point. Like we really can't keep going
41:02
on with like how angry and volatile things are online.
41:04
Like it's always sounds like influencers are complaining
41:06
about like cancel culture and stuff.
41:07
But like, honestly, if you are online at all, which I'm
41:11
assuming most of you guys that listen to this podcast are like,
41:14
and if you are on like Twitter and Tiktok, like you know how
41:17
bad it is like for people with any type of platform, let alone
41:20
people without a platform, you know?
41:21
So I don't know. I think things will have to
41:24
swing back and they already are starting to like there's already
41:27
people starting to have conversations around like you
41:29
said, like logging off go touch grass.
41:32
This is not like it's real life, but it's also not.
41:35
But I think the last few years will have a like a lasting
41:39
permanent change on the Internet 100%.
41:42
Even though I do think that the pendulum will swing back and
41:44
things hopefully will kind of equalize a bit at some point.
41:47
Like I think we can't really erase how hyper aware we all are
41:52
now. Like when I hear somebody say
41:54
something in a conversation like one of my friends or something,
41:57
I immediately think about like how Twitter would take that
42:01
statement instead of like how I feel about it.
42:04
You know, it's like that's not healthy.
42:05
Like that's not good. And like a lot of people talk
42:08
about how, like they're very online, they like self-centered
42:10
or they like over contextualize things before they tweet or
42:15
before they make a statement, 'cause they don't want anything
42:18
to be taken the wrong way and things like that.
42:19
It's like that's not how conversation used to be.
42:22
And it it shouldn't. Be how it always is.
42:25
Yeah, it's been taken completely out of proportion to what a
42:29
normal it was used to be. A way to connect with people
42:33
online and like find community. Not having the same conversation
42:38
you would have with a friend, but instead you're having it
42:40
with a million screaming people. Who are angry at each other?
42:44
But no one knows why. And are often on the same side.
42:49
Oh. My God, I completely agree.
42:50
Do you have any concluding points?
42:52
I do think future generations will, as a whole, choose to be
42:57
more private for sure. For sure.
42:59
I think they've seen the mistakes that millennials made
43:02
and it's just not worth it. And that millennials that have
43:06
been successful online are embarrassing and they don't want
43:10
a bar of that. Also, like, impossible to do
43:13
that anymore, You know? It's impossible to just become
43:15
like an Instagram influencer. It's so hard to become a
43:18
YouTube. Yeah, like the Charlies and
43:20
Addison's, this tiny tier of people that did become popular
43:24
because they got on Tiktok at the right time, right place,
43:26
right time. That will not happen again until
43:29
we have the next Tiktok come along.
43:31
But even then, like, will it be received the same way?
43:34
Because this shift will be five years down the track, and people
43:38
might not be, like, ready to engage in the same way anyway.
43:41
So maybe Charlie and Addison will be the last real influences
43:45
that we've seen grow to this kind of level.
43:50
The last real creators we will see grow to this level of
43:53
influence like ever again, realistically.
43:55
Huge call. That's a huge call.
43:59
Infinite Scroll is a podcast written, produced, edited and
44:02
presented by me, Lauren Meisner for Centennial World.
44:06
Additional research and reporting this week was by
44:08
Annabelle and David. Thank you so much for listening.
44:11
I love you guys so much and I will talk to you next week.
44:14
Bye.