Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Tom Haberstroh on Cooper Flagg Questions, Pelicans Shocking Trade, NBA Nepotism

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Tom Haberstroh on Cooper Flagg Questions, Pelicans Shocking Trade, NBA Nepotism · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is Tom Havistro Friday. Tom Havistro of tomthefinder.com.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: What's going on, sir?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: What's happening, Beaumont? Good to be here.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: All right, man. We got a lot going on. Tom
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: is one of our guests who also likes to dabble
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: in producing his own shit. So he sent us a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: couple of articles that are actually interesting and worth discussing. Therefore,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: we will do it. I got to put you on
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the list. You're on there with Lefkoe, who shows up
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: with his own questions, and Taylor Rooks, who's never found
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: an interview of her that she could not turn into
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: an interview of you. That's high territory that you're in there.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Is that a backhanded compliment? Is that I'm producing your show?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: No, no, it is not. No, here's the thing. It
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: would be backhanded if the stuff wasn't good. Instead, it's
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: you earning your keep. You know what I'm saying? Like,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: why make this difficult when I have... Because, you know,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: normally you'll hit a guest up. Is there anything you'd
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: like to talk about? You're just like, why wait? And
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: it was good stuff.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That story I wrote for Yahoo, and we'll get
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: into it later, I think it has a lot of
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: implications not just in sports but it you know in
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: economics and in all sorts of uh areas and i
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: feel like this is kind of in our wheelhouse um
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: just talking from the framework of what works and what
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't and roi on hires and all this stuff so
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: uh i can't wait to talk about with that with
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: you but man last night's nba draft i know people
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: didn't realize like a lot of these names here but
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: there's so many funny things that happened in last night's
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: draft that i can't wait to talk about with.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: So first thing, where are you on Cooper flag? Because
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: What keeps me in it with Flagg is the way
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: that people talked about him from the Olympics in 2024
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: and the way they said he really held his own
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: in those practices. I see a very good player in college.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I don't see the player that I hear people talk about.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: He does not jump off the screen to me in
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: that way, but everybody else seems to see it. And
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: if you tell me that he did it against the best,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: now you've got me.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: So where are you?
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I love this kid. And I say kid because he's
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: 18 years old and he's going to be 18 years
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: old when he starts his NBA career and debuts for
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: the Dallas Mavericks. You have to understand this guy should
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: be coming out of high school. He's going to be
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: debuting as an 18-year-old a year and a half younger
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: than what KG was when he came out of high school.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: So you have to kind of start re-engineering Cooper Flagg
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: as a prospect and remember that he classed up so
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: that he could get into this draft class, and he
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: should be coming out of high school. So first things first,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: he started at Duke as a 17-year-old. So when you're
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the best college basketball player, when you started as a 17-year-old,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you're special. And then there isn't really a weakness in
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: his game. People thought, oh, that jumper, I'm not so
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: sure about that jumper. He was one of the best
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: three-point shooters in America in the second half of last season.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: He's got handle. He's got toughness. He plays defense. He
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: can block shots. He can guard on the perimeter. He's
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: a great attacker downhill. I went to one of his games.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: They're playing Pitt. And they showed these highlights over and
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: over last night in the draft. And Jay Billis was like, dude,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: that game, there was highlights all over the place. I
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: was there for that because I was doing this charity event.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It was... Like you could feel this guy. Like you
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: could feel him from the stands. And I know Cameron
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Indore is a little matchbox there. But you could feel
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: his presence. Every time he jumped from the floor, the
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: gym kind of bounced because he plays with that kind
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of power. And he was by far the best player
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: on the floor in that game. And he dunked all
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: over one of those pit bid guys in the fast break.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: And he's just fearless. I mentioned KG earlier. I think
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: if he hits his ceiling, he's KG. He hits his ceiling,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: he's KG. If he's the big ticket, this guy's the
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: big login. Like that's this generation's KG if he hits
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: his highs. Because I think he's got the full skill
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  Speaker 2: set like KG does, the competitiveness, the two-way play, the
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: ability to play point forward. And I just think he
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: is the real deal. In Dallas though, I don't love
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the fit, the expectations for him there. And it just
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel like the right situation for him, but I
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: love him as a prospect.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: All right, so the thing for me is, KG was
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: perhaps at a point the best defensive player in the NBA.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Consummate crazy person leader, right? It works in its own
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: absolutely insane way. The counterpoint on KG or where we
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: started hitting KG with some demerits. Again, a guy who
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: was up there with potentially the best player in the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: NBA at a point. Also, Game seven against Sacramento in
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: 04 notwithstanding, not the dude that you want.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: To bring it home with the ball at the end.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And I think that people look at Flagg as a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: guy that you want to be that guy who can
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: do that. Like, is that something that you can see
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: for him? Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a good look at the end of the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: game in the final four there to end his college career.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: He fell down again because he seemed to keep falling down.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: That's the third time he fell down.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Well, he was wearing Nikes, right? And he's a New
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Balance guy. So maybe if you make that switch at
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the next level, we'll fix that problem. I think he's great.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: In this season, his advanced stats are off the charts
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: as a 17-year-old coming in and now an 18-year-old. You
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: just don't see that from a guy that young. And
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: so when you're projecting him in four years, remember KG,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: his rookie season when he was playing with Googs and
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Terry Porter. I work with Terry Porter, so I got
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: to ask TP what it was like to be there
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: with a rookie KG. Took KG a couple years before
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: he became an all-star. This rookie year, I think he
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: averaged like 10-4 overall. I think the expectations for Cooper
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Flagg right away is a lot higher than that. I
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: would pick him as the early favorite for Rookie of
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: the Year, but there's a lot of expectations on him.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I think in five years, he's going to be 23
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: years old. We're probably going to be able to evaluate
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: this pick or how good he is in eight years
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: because that's how young he is. I think that Cooper
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Flagg From what everyone says is the best competitor, the leader,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: everything that you want from a young player. And that
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: select practice that he had at Team USA, he wasn't
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: scared at all. Like you watch him out on the
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: floor and he was going at dudes. So I really,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I was expecting him to be a little shy around those.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is LeBron. This is Steph. This is KD.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: These are the greats of the greats, right? Still at
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the peak of their powers. And he held his own,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: more than held his own.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Who was the last number one pick to go to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: a good team? Like Tim Duncan is the last one
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  Speaker 1: that I can think of off the top of my head.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: And yes, I know the Spurs were bad and that's
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: what helped them get Duncan. But that was because David
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Robinson was hurt. Like as soon as David Robinson showed
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: back up, they were a good team.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I want to say this is the the Mavericks are
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: the best team to land the number one overall pick.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: since Duncan like in terms of record it might even
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: be record wise better than Duncan because that's oh.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: It has to be because they were terrible that year
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: before in record wise because Robinson got hurt.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I want to say if not the last 30 years
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I think I think it might be the number one
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: uh number one pick the best record going because they
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: were 39 and 43 the Mavericks were and they landed
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: the number one overall pick and unless you traded the
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: number one pick or traded a pick that became the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: number one pick and it jumped, it's very hard to
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: have a team that's basically 500 win the lottery. So
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: he's coming into a situation with A.D., I think he's
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: going to be playing a lot at the three, considering
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: that Nico Harrison has always talked about defense wins championships,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: and he's basically over a barrel with Daniel Gafford and
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Derek Lively and AD. They want to build this big team.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: So Cooper Flagg is going from a lot of times
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: playing at the four last season, and he's going to
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: be 6'9 playing at the three position. He's going to
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: be tested a lot of nights because the NBA is
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: going smaller, and this Mavericks team is getting bigger. So
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that's going to be a real test for him, but ultimately–
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: We're not going to be evaluating Cooper Flagg this upcoming season.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: But I think Jason Kidd and the expectations and Nico
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Harrison giving Kyrie Irving a three-year, $ 120 million extension, the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: expectations are win right away. And he's a winner.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: We know that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: But for an 18-year-old coming into the NBA, trying to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: fill Luka Doncic's shoes, that is some expectation that we
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: have not put on a lot of number one overall picks.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Now, let me tell you this. Talk a little later
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: in the draft. I think you may know this about me,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: but I am a firm supporter of the abolition of
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: all drafts. I think particularly in the face of salary caps,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: they were unnecessary. Give teams salary slots that allowed them
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: to dish out more money, some more than others, if
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: you want to retain the redistributive qualities of it. But
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: in the end, I don't think the draft is necessary.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I think it keeps wages down, but it's also now
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: a television show, right? And at the same time, if
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: we are going to have it, I love watching guys
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: who decide that they're going to try to manipulate where
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: it is that they want to go through various techniques
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: of not working out for people, acting a donkey when
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you go to the place, right? Like you think you
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: can make it work the way you want it to work.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: At the same time, I also love and appreciate somebody
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: that's like, yeah, nice try, buddy.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: You're coming with us.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And that is what happened here with the curious case
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: of Ace Bailey that I talked to Lefkoe about on Wednesday. But,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you know, on one hand, It's hilarious that this dude
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: was trying to get himself to go to the Wizards.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: That was the plan on purpose, is that you wanted
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to go to the Wizards. Who in the what? What's
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the logic here? Who's it? Because it's close to home.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: What advice is it that you are receiving? That's like,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I want to go to the Wizards. But instead, Danny
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Ainge was like, nice job, buddy.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Utah.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was the other one. Ace Bailey and
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: then Colin Murray-Boyles was not too happy when the Raptors
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: picked him. He dropped a four-letter word right when he
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: got drafted.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: He will be. Don't you worry. He will be.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: He's going to be okay?
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: He will find a way to enjoy Toronto one way
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: or another. He will figure it out.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: He'll be okay. He needs to talk to some of
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: his agents, some of his people around him about what
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: it's like to be an NBA player in Toronto. He'll
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: be okay. Salt Lake City, look, Will Hardy just got
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: an extension, right? He just went through like in Shawshank
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Redemption when Tim Robbins is coming out of the sewer
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: and he's just looking up and he got his extension
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: because a lot of people around the league, they're afraid
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: to take that job. They're afraid to take that rebuilding
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: job because as soon as you start getting good, see it, right?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And so Will Hardy got the extension. So he came
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: out the other side and he's got his deal. And
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: now it looks like, all right, we're going to take
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Ace Bailey and we're going to shoot for a huge swing.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: They're going to take a huge home run swing at
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Ace Bailey because you saw what he did last year.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: He was a top five pick and he was on
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a losing Rutgers team with Dylan Harper as a star teammate.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So this guy has not shown that he can be
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: a winner at the collegiate level, and it's going to
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: be a while. He is like a mold of clay.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: This dude, Ace Bailey, looks like he should be a
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: lot better in terms of impact than he showed last season.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: And so it's going to be a few years before
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I think he can start to deliver on his promise
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: as being like this Tracy McGrady prototype, a Rudy Gay,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: just a really tall score bucket getter in the mid-range.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: The thing about the Utah Jazz, though, Bomani, is they
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: are one of these Missoula ball teams. They love taking
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: threes and they hate the mid-range. There was a lot
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: of games this season in which they didn't make a
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: basket in the mid-range area, something that never would have
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: ever happened five years ago. And I know we saw
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder live in
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the mid-range a little bit and take that in that
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: dead zone, that analytics and a lot of sabermetrics folks,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: MIT Sloan analytics folks. Hey, that is not a high
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: percentage shot. Only a few players can take that shot.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Ace Bailey has not shown that he is that guy yet.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: And Will Hardy is a big believer in taking those
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: shots behind the three-point line. So those things that Ace
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Bailey is really liking, the mid-range, those fadeaway jumpers on
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: the baseline, he's going to have to wean that out
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: of his system if he wants to play in this system.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: What surprised me is that the people who have the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: advanced numbers, the predictive advanced metrics about college players, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Bailey seems to flunk those all the way across the board.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: That was the part that surprised me was somebody taking
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: him that high. And I know, I guess, the young age...
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: is now the one who is making a lot of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: these decisions there in Utah. But this felt like the
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: kind of pick the old Ainge would make in the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: sense that Danny Ainge is a basketball player with a
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: tendency to look at guys and think about, well, what
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: would I do if I had to guard that guy?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: And Ace Bailey strikes me as the sort of dude
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that players look at and are like, oh man, I
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: can't do nothing with this.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Like DeMar DeRozan is... somewhere somewhere in the realm of
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: what you would want ace bailey to develop into right
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: guy who just gets to his spots and he's going
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: to be a terror to guard because he's just a
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: great shooter tough shot maker same thing with ace bailey
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: a thing that statistically is a huge red flag for
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: him is he has a really low assist rate and
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: a really low steal rate steal rate bomani is this
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: secret sauce that if you look at steal rate in
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: college hoops or steal rate for any level going into
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: the NBA, it has a crazy good predictor of your
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: NBA success. Like if you can get steals defensively, The
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: numbers say that that is a huge harbinger for success
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: at the next level, and you can probably wrap your
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: mind around why that might be the case. If you're
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: getting a lot of steals, A, you try hard defensively.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You're not sleeping on defense. Two, you have this great
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: sense of the game, basketball IQ about where the pass
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: is going to go, and you have this ability to
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: predict things. where the offense is going. And thirdly, you're physical.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: A lot of guys who want to make it at
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the next level, they got to play bigger. They got
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: to play longer. They use their wingspan in ways that
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: they can use to get turnovers. And steal rate is
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: not one of his high qualities. Just 1.4 steals every
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: 36 minutes. And that's something that B.J. Edgecombe does really
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: well And why I think Philadelphia really liked him. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the other side is 1.1, sorry, 1.4 assists and 1.1
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: steals at the college level. So 1.4 assists every 36
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: minutes for Ace Bailey.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Yikes.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Big yikes if you want to play at the next level.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Now the counterpoint to that is Gilbert Redis' point about
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: his old son is we'll worry about passing later. It
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: feels like Ace Bailey has been told, just.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Get these shots up. This is what you're here for.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Now, I try not to get too draft nerdy in
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: this because I think people generally don't care. And I
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: do think that the super draft nerds get a little
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: bit too caught up in stuff like the pick swaps,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the protections, so forth and so on. But in a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: world where this exists, the New Orleans Pelicans, who Joe
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Dumars is now in charge. Love Joe Dumars. Joe Dumars
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: has a championship. He's coached very good teams. I mean,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: it has been the GM for some very good teams.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: They moved up 10 spots in the draft with their
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: second first round pick from the 23rd pick to the
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: 13th pick. And they traded away their first round pick
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: next year. But in a way that is very uncommon
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: in NBA trades, unprotected, which is to say no matter
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: where that pick lands, the Pelicans have no control over
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: their pick. So if the Pelicans are not doing well
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: next season and decide they want to go young and
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: get a bad record as a result, it doesn't matter.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: They don't get the picks. All you guys that really
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: do this do exactly what Tom Haberstroh just did right
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: there and put his hand in his head and leaned
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: back and was mad frustrated by the idea that they
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: did it. Now, I'm going to hear your take on it,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and then I'm going to throw something out there that
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you have heard.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: You go first. Okay.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like David Stern tried to rise from the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: grave and block this trade, just like he did way
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: back when Chris Paul did Lakers. Like, David Stern... would
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: never have let this happen because when you're looking at
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: the trade, the key here is that it is a
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: swap they can actually swap with the Milwaukee Bucks. It's
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: going to be the best pick between the Pelicans and
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: the Bucks next year, Bomani. So if the Bucks decide, hey,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: we're going to blow it up, we're going in a
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: different direction, Giannis, we're trading Giannis, that Milwaukee Bucks pick
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: with no Damian Lillard next season could be extremely valuable.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: And so even if it's New Orleans unprotected, I'd be like, man,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: that's a tough way to move up 10 spots. But
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: they actually doubled their odds. The Atlanta Hawks doubled their
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: odds of having a great pick by having the ability
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: to have the most favorable pick between the Pelicans and
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the Bucs. So it's not just that they got an
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: unprotected pick. It's that they got the ability to exchange
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: that if the Bucs somehow, something happens to Giannis, something
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: happens with Milwaukee, and they go, amen. I know that
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: New Orleans pick could be 10, but that Bucks pick
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: just won the lottery. We're going to take that. So
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: it's just it's basically they traded up 10 spots for
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: two hacks at the lottery, potentially winning the lottery.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I think that they think they being the Pelicans, that
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: they got.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: A super duper steal. I think it was.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Derrick Queen that they took.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Derrick Queen from Maryland. Yep.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the quote that Kevin Willard, who now
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: coaches at Villanova, but coached at Maryland last year, had
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: about Derrick Queen?
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: What's the quote?
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: He said that he believed.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: This is wild. He said that he believed that if
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Derrick Queen were white and from Europe, that he would
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: be the number one overall pick in the draft.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Now... I feel like it's one thing to big up
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: your guy. You must really, really, really believe what you
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: are saying or who you got if you say something
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: like this. Is this a possibility? Because Dumar said after
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the draft, he's just like, look, man, if you see
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the guy and you want the guy, you go get
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the guy. He was like, we're taking two picks in
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: this draft.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And I agree with you. You have the possibility of
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: moving way up next year and all that stuff. But
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: he seems super duper sold on who the guy is
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that they have. And if you feel sold on him and,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the part that you can't predict, if you
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: think Zion Williams is going to give you 70 games
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: this year, then your pick is not going to be bad, right?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Like maybe that's what it is. I would be very
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: curious to know if after the draft, they told Dumars
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: about what you said about it actually being two chances.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And he was like, damn, why didn't y'all tell me?
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Hey, come on, man. I didn't realize the Bucs was
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: in there, too. Y'all just said it was ours. That
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: might be the most valuable 2026 pick because of that
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Bucs factor. Because we don't know. Giannis Antetokounmpo, even though
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: he has not put on the trade block, he certainly
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: hasn't said, I'm a Milwaukee Buc for life. So you
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: can talk yourself into that he's not going to be
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: put on the trade block, but the opposite is also true.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: That it has been a long enough time for Giannis
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Antetokounmpo to get out here and be like, hey, I
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: know all the rumors, but I'm going to be a
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Wisconsinite for life. I'm here for the long haul. He
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: has not done that. So until that happens, maybe, maybe
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: this is okay. But remember, it gets worse, Bomani. They
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: didn't have the 23 pick coming into this about a
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: week ago. They traded the Indiana Pacers. They made a
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: trade with the Indian Pacers to get their 23rd pick
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: a week ago. June 17th, the Pacers wanted next year's pick,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And they got the 23 pick the New Orleans Pelicans did.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And the Pacers were like, all right, we'll get next
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: year's pick. We'll trade you ours this year because, you know,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: how valuable could our pick next year be? And two
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: days later, Tyrese Halliburton tears his Achilles. So if Joe
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Dumars and Troy Weaver, who's the GM underneath Joe Dumars,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: had just waited a week, just waited a week, that
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: trade is a lot different. So the Indiana Pacers, they
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: got a top four protected pick next year from New Orleans.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So you could be looking at a case in which
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: New Orleans, in order to get Derrick Queen They traded
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: the number five pick and the number one pick next year.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: That is best case scenario for Atlanta and Indiana. But
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans, if they just sat there, man, they
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: could have had that five pick or the number one pick,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: what have you. If Indiana keeps that pick, it's a
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: whole different story. On Derrick Queen and that quote, it's
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a hilarious quote. I'm not going to get into the... Look,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Derrick Queen's good, right? But you have to understand, I
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: mentioned Troy Weaver, Bomani.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Troy Weaver.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: is a D.C. area guy. He was on the Washington
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Wizards staff last year. And who is his son? Oh,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: it's the Maryland grad assistant. And from what I've read,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Troy Weaver, the GM of the New Orleans Pelicans, while
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: he was in D.C. area, was at basically every practice
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: of Maryland last year because his son was on the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: coaching staff. And so this isn't just a, hey, we
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: like this guy. It's a, I know this guy. I
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: saw him every day and I was at most of
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: his games at Maryland. And so I have already built
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: this relationship through my son and living in the DC area.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And so to me, it's like, they knew this when
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: they acquired that Indiana pick at number 23 a week ago.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: They knew they wanted to get Derek queen. And they
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: figured if we can get the number 23, maybe we
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: can parlay a future first to get the 15 and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: get him with that pick. And they did. I just
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: think that's way too much draft capital to give up
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: way too much downside and giving up this dude that
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to me, it's like, yeah, you got to see him.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: That's all good, man. But did y'all forget you're in
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: new Orleans? Like this dude has weight and conditioning issues.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: And we saw what happened with Zion Williamson as soon
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: as he got to New Orleans. And now you're getting
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Derek Queen. Come on, man. You got to remember where
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: you're at. It's in New Orleans. It's a big easy.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Come on.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, Zion Williamson could have been in,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Laos. uh, Myanmar, um, all kinds of places.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: He's still had same, same problems. Uh, I want to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: ask you about con can nipple, but before I get there, boy,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: we're going to have fun saying that name and people
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: are going to have a great time asking what his
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: middle name is. Apparently he doesn't have one or he
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to tell. I can't tell which is which, um, way.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: You're saying that his middle name could start with a
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: certain letter.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I had a teacher in middle school whose initials were
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: K's across the board.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, you got to think about this, man. Sometimes
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: people don't think about it. Case in point, Steve Kerr
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: has a son named Nicholas and he did not, he
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: didn't stress test it. And so he's Nicholas. We're all
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: going to call him Nicholas. It's kind of like that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: time Doris Burke tried to say Knickerbocker on TV. You
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: can't say it slow enough. Scott Van Pelt told me.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: He's like, you can't enunciate it clearly enough. It can't
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: be done. Now, we were going to talk about the
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: thing with Knipple because of the last 25 first-round picks
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: from Duke, I see 20% of them have gone to Charlotte,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: which is very interesting because Charlotte is very much a
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: UNC town where they're probably still booing J.J. Redick to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: this day, as I know they did for basically the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: entirety of his career. But I forgot about to me,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the most interesting pick in this draft. Big Young Hanson. Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: The big Chinese dude that was in the crowd.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Now, first of all, my question, it says Hanson. Is
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that like, is him being called Hanson the equivalent of
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: all them dudes that went to graduate school with names
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: like Dick and Harvey? Like, was that somebody's favorite band
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: back in the day and that's the name they gave
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: him before he came to America? Is it Young Hanson?
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It could go either way. I do
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: know this. I saw his highlights there, and I think
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Jake Fisher sent a tweet about Chinese Jokic or somebody
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: said it. I see the vision, though. I'm actually quite
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: surprised that anybody would let this player slip to 15
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: if they had any idea of who he was.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: All right, so full disclosure. I do the Blazers broadcast
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: last two years. So just understand where I'm coming from here.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I will say I had no idea that they were
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: in on this dude from China. And keep in mind
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: what Jake Fisher over at the Stein line reported is
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a Denver coach. A Denver coach said he was Chinese Jokic. Okay.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: So this is a guy who's on another team who's
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: seen this dude play and is like Chinese Jokic. Now,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: if he was truly Chinese Jokic, obviously the Blazers would
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: have traded up to make sure 110% they're getting that guy, right?
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: But he was a second round projected pick. So this guy, man,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I love his personality too. Like when he's in the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: stands and as soon as his name is called, he's
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: just holding one up. He's like, yeah, yeah. And did
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: you see who his agent was?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I was just about to say that. His agent
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: is Rich Paul and of note, who represents the head
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: coach of the Portland Trailblazers.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Rich Paul. When I saw Rich come out of the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: stands with him, first of all, shout out to Rich.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Rich was everywhere he needed to be, boy. He had
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: to move up to the stage. He was down there.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: He was down there at the front of the stands
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to let him down like he was security. Like, y'all,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: don't worry, homie. He with me coming down here. But
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: with his other guys, he was working the floor. He
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: was making all the moves. But I want to see this.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I see where this can go. And you said the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: same thing I did. He was out there like, yeah,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: what's up, baby? Boy, y'all, I'm up in here.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And man, like, look, let's just keep perspective here. He
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: was the defensive player of the year in the CBA
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: last year, the Chinese Basketball Association, a league in which
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Jared Sullinger was the MVP last year. So we have
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to keep our expectations tempered a little bit. But when
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: you see him... He has a lot of Jokic in
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: his game. I read it that the guys that he
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: models his game after are Alperin Shangun, Damanis Sabonis, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Nikola Jokic. And you can see it the way he passes,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: the way he uses one hand out there like a
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: water polo player, which Nikola Jokic was a water polo
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: player for his entire life before he came to the NBA.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: This guy's 7'2. He's got the biggest hands in the combine.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And defensively, he's got to pick up his foot speed,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: but defensively, This is as much of a home run pick,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: and it's right around the time when Giannis was picked, right?
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: It's right around the time that just outside the lottery
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: that some of these guys, you're like, hey, how did
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Pascal Siakam fall that far or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Same sort
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: of deal. On Con Canipple, man, it's just, if you
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: look at lotto picks going from Duke, Duke lotto picks,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I've tracked this. I've got this database that has every
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: draft pick since 1989. And since, let's just say since
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the 2001 draft, the University of Kentucky Wildcats, UK has
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the most lottery picks, 24. They've got 10 all-stars out
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: of those 24 lottery picks since 2001. I could go
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: through them all. You already know them off the top
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: of the head. A 42% all-star hit rate on those
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: lotto picks. Duke had 22 lotto picks. and six All-Stars,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: so a 27% hit rate on those lotto picks. They
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: have twice as many busts as Kentucky does, but you're
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: gonna appreciate this. UNC, 12 lottery picks, Carolina, zero All-Stars
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: since 2001. So if UNC, I mean, if the Charlotte
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Hornets are gonna pick one or the other and say,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: we wanna go get a Duke guy or a UNC guy,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Thank God they're off that UNC thing because the last
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: All-Star to be drafted out of UNC, do you know
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the name?
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: The names are Antoine Jamison and Vince Carter, I believe.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: 1998. It's crazy because they've been good. Right. Like it's
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: not as though as a program they've had some lulls, obviously.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: But as a program, they've been good on the high
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: end of this. They have done what Duke has done
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: basically since Duke made the transition to getting those guys.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I think UNC is still like been as successful, if
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: not more. But a program that we think about as
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: producing pros.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: It's not that.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And by the way, they're salty about that.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Can I tell you, Bomani? I was a kid who
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: grew up worshiping the Tar Heels. I went to basketball
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: camp there for every summer. My grandparents live in North Carolina.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: It's why I live in North Carolina now. It's because
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I love coming down and visiting North Carolina. So now
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I live in Charlotte. I just dropped off my nephew
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: at UNC basketball camp. And it gave me all the feels, man,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: like the the marketing that UNC does and the Carolina
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Blue and the Pinstripe, all that stuff, the Paisley, all
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: that is great. But when I went to basketball camp,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I worship James. and Vince Carter. I can't even tell you, Bomani,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: how insane it is that we're sitting here in 2025
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and saying that was not just the peak, but it
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: was the cliff. Like Anton Jameson and Vince Carter, the
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: fact that that group, if you had told me back
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: then that those are the last all-stars to ever make
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: it out of UNC, I would have said you're crazy.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: It is mind-boggling to me that we haven't had a
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: UNC guy make it to the All-Star since 2008. That
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: was the last one, Antoine Jameson. So what happened? Because
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: like you said, they're good. They've won national championships since then.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So it's hard. Is there something culture-wise or Roy Williams-wise
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: that you can pinpoint?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: The irony of it is that historically, what you're describing
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: about UNC was Kentucky basketball prior to Cal, where it
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: was always about the players and the squads themselves rather
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: than it was about any individuals, right? It flipped up
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: the other way. Duke, again, then flipped and went in
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: that other direction. Roy, in large part, this is a
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: big thing with Hubert Davis, who I don't think is
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: long for that job because this job is not the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: job that he signed up for. it is a much
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: more professional coaching job. And that is not, I think
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Hubert will walk away by himself. I just don't think
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that's what he's in it for. But they decided they
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: wanted the guys that they wanted, right? There's a certain
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: level of the game that they weren't as willing to play.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And we're going to try to win another way. And
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: nobody cares as long as you keep winning. Like Duke
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: make that flip up, but it didn't make them any better.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: So I don't know how much it matters on that end.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: But you're right. Guys leave Carolina because they're like, we
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: want to go somewhere that'll get us ready for the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: pros a little bit more.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: What?
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Like the idea that Dean Smith's program is not the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: one that'll get you ready for the pros. And even
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: if they say what you want about Roy, it was
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of pros coming out there during Roy's era,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: but none of them were that guy. You get like
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: the 0-9 team has seven or eight pros on it,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: but none became that guy. The guys that stayed in
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the league a long time, but none became that guy.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I guess the next one is Kobe White. Like that's
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the next hope is that like Kobe White can be
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: that guy. But he's he's a good score. But is
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: he an all star? Maybe maybe one day pink says
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: an all star. But it's been 17 years since we've
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: seen a Carolina guy go. into becoming an all-star. So
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: they're 0 for 12. UConn is 3 out of 14. Kansas,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: 2 out of 16. That's crazy. Kansas, and you put
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: in the UNC thing and the Roy Williams factor, Kansas
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: has the highest bus to all-star rate in the lottery
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: since 2001. UK is the best. So Kentucky, much.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Better than Kansas. Those are mostly Bill Self guys because
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I think the Roy guys in that time really are
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Kirk Heinrich and he with the retired jersey at Oklahoma City,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Nick Collison. But I want to put a pin in
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: this right fast because there is a school that you
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: may have never heard of that Tom believes is the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: school that you should draft players from if they went
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• 35:35
  Speaker 1: are back with Tom Haberstroh. And as you guys know,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Tom does a lot of good stuff with the numbers,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: looking for trends and the likes. And you got something
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: up at Yahoo right now where you were talking about,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you know, what schools there are that maybe you should
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: draft players from. Now, you are a Wake Forest grad.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: We do not have Muzzy Bogues in the background today
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason. But that's Tom's away guy. And it
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: seems that your alma mater does good putting guys in
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the league or relative to draft stats, right?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did a study a few years ago
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: looking at which college programs produce the best NBA players.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm not talking just like the most all-stars. I'm
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: saying like if you're a GM or if you're a
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: fan and you're like, hey, who are the most underrated
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: programs that exceed expectations based on draft slot? That like
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: maybe they're drafted 10, but they're performing at like a five.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Like who has the most juice coming out of college?
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And it's Wake Forest. It's the Demon Deacons. And if
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: you look at the NBA finals this year, the guy
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: who got ejected, James Johnson. Did anyone think that James
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Johnson would have a 20-year career in the NBA? I'd
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: say 16 years so far. That's just one of the guys.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Jeff Teague, Chris Paul. Of course, there's Tim Duncan. There's
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of hits when it comes to the Wake
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Forest Demon Deacons. Of the four big schools in the
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Tobacco Road area, NC State, uh, Carolina Duke, like we're
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: always punching up above our weight, 5,000, uh, undergrad enrollment.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Like we're the smallest power five school in the country.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: And yet when you talk about NBA prospects, Jake LaRavia
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: is another one, uh, who just got traded last year,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Indiana state transfer, still in the league and a pretty
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: good player. Wake Forest, uh, I don't know what that's about.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's just like when you're competing at the highest
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: levels of the ACC and you're not from those blue
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: chip programs at Carolina and Duke, maybe you're getting underrated.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: But like you look at Jeff Teague's career, you look at–
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: throw out Rodney Rogers too, Muggsy Bogues. A lot of
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: these Wake products do a lot better than expected. The
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: only one that I can point to, Randolph Childress.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: Andrew.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: That's the only one that didn't pan out, I feel like.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Throw Josh Howard in there. Another hit.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Josh Howard, it went away out of nowhere. He made
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the people mad with that Obama joke in 08, and
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: then it was like, damn, whatever happened to Josh Howard?
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Do you remember that?
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Rodney Rogers, my favorite Wake Forest player ever, perhaps my
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: favorite ACC player of my whole present lifetime. Good God.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: That's a you-had-to-be-there case.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: When people were saying that Zion resembles Rodney Rogers or
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: just like the strength and the size and the athleticism
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: and the way that he played.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: It was an all point comparison for college Rodney Rogers.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Like college Rodney Rogers is not athletic enough to be
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that guy in the NBA that, you know, that he
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: came up, but he turned into Rodney. an excellent three-point
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: shooter and a six-man type of player. But no, when people,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: it was a real hashtag IYKYK situation. Whereas like if
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you saw Zion and you saw Rodney Rogers, like no,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Rodney was not that explosive, but that was the cop.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: That was my favorite way guy. Jeff T was always
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: interesting because he was so good those two years he
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: was there. But they, after Skip died, they might as
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: well have been coaching themselves. And in fact, they were
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: coached by a now convicted felon. that's a discussion for
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: a different day.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I i was on campus when that news hit when
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: skip passed away a heart attack um that was uh
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: i i didn't quite realize how good of a coach
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: he was and how good of a recruiter he was
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: and i know like after he passed a lot of
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: coaches you know spoke glowingly about the kind of man
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that skip prosser was but we have not been able
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: to get back since. It's been a really tough road
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: for Wake, the Danny Manning era, the Jeff Bezdelic era.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: But you talk about that class that he brought in,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: and Dino Gaudio, to his credit, he was a pretty
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: good recruiter, but Skip Prosser, he got the talent back.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: to to play at a very high level and you're
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: talking like al farouk minu ish smith jeff teague james
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: johnson on the same team and ish smith didn't get
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: didn't even get drafted and he had a base.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: There's your over performer right there you could tell he
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: cool as hell still in i mean he may still
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: be in the league i don't think he's still there
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: now but he would definitely people love ish smith that's
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: what it takes for you to be in smith and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: stay in the league that long people love that man.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: So the thing that I didn't realize, I did this
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: story last year, is that like Wake Forest as a program,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Kentucky and Wake Forest are head and shoulders above all
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the other college programs in terms of how well the
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: player does based on where they were drafted. But there's
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: this other effect, this other variable that I think people
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: are sleeping on is did your dad play in the NBA?
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: That genetic line, the bloodline of did your dad play
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: in the NBA is one of the greatest amplifiers in
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the world. When it comes to like, hey, what do
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I want to get in an NBA player? You know what?
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Did his dad play in the league?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Then you should draft him. Like any sort of tiebreakers
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: or any sort of doubts. These guys, whether it's Jalen Brunson,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Stephen Curry, Kobe Bryant, by the way, another one of
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: these second gen NBA players. they hit 30% higher than
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: what you would expect based on where they're drafting. So
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: you're moving up six slots basically on your production in
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: the NBA. It's one of the biggest effects in the
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: draft is did your dad play in the NBA? So
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Dylan Harper, his father Ron Harper, Jace Richardson, father Jason Richardson,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: These two prospects.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Hold on, we're at the point where Jason Richardson's son
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: is in the NBA?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Swear to you, he played at Michigan State, of course,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: and his name is Jase, and spelled J-A-S-E, Richardson. And
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: he's a six-footer, but he can shoot the rock, man.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: He's not as quite of a high flyer as his
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: dad was. But we're coming up on the Boozer twins, right?
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: We're coming up on Gilbert Arenas' son. We're coming up
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: on a lot of... Carmelo Anthony's son. These guys... have
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: a way higher hit rate than a bust rate. And
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like they don't get enough credit on draft night.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Like Devin Booker fell, his father played in the NBA.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: You look at Seth Curry, his brother was the greatest
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: sensation in sports and yet he could not get drafted.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: And he's still in the league after all these years.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: So Bo, do you think like as a GM, as
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: a culture player, These guys are sliding on draft night
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: that the GMs are like, I don't want to have
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: to deal with the kid's son. Like maybe he's full
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: of himself, maybe feels entitled. Or do you think they're
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: just undervalued in ways that maybe the stats can't show?
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Is that maybe they're late bloomers or late developers and
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: they just have this kind of emotional IQ that gives
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: them a leg up in the NBA?
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: It's a good question because I read your piece and
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the examples that I found to be interesting. Well, let
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: me back up before I get there. I was with
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: LeVar Ball where I thought he made a very good
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: point where he said, I've never seen a Hall of
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Fame player with a Hall of Fame son. Um, and
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: by the way, thus far, we don't have anybody tossing
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: that out of the window. Like we, we, we, we,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: we don't have anything quite in that space where, um,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: even the guys that we're looking at now, Dylan Harper
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: at the number two pick in the draft, Ron Harper,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: who for you guys who were you, if you think
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: of Ron Harper in the context of when he won
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: those five rings, that is Ron Harper after the knee injuries.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Ron Harper was like a, it's Jordan and Ron Harper
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: matched up tonight. I got to watch that. Not saying
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: he's as good as Michael Jordan, but that was the
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: caliber of talent and athlete that Ron Harper was, specifically
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: when he played for Cleveland before they traded him to
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the Clippers. The guys that we're talking about, Carlos Boozer
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: might be the best one to have a kid that
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: we're talking about at those levels. Kyan, Carmelo's son, we're
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: not talking about him in that way. Yeah, we're not
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: talking about him as like the Boozer twins are looking
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: like top five. type players we're not talking about them
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: in that case so it's wild though to me though
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: one would think that the league would prioritize that exposure
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: as much if not more than anything else from what
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: your data indicates that's not it in the cases that
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: i find to be interesting i don't want to ruin
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: it but there's a lot in your story about gary
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: payton the second and i It took him a while
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: to get it going, but he carved out a 10-year
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: NBA career. Like what I wonder is specifically about the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: sons of players, if those guys are, we'll call them
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: like second round picks or somewhere in there. If they
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: have a different mentality, what a different mentality about what
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: it's going to take for you to get up from
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: where you are and make it. But also number two,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: a financial security that allows you to get out here
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: and chase your dreams forever. 100%.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: And think about just like Jalen Brunson growing up in
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: an NBA locker room. You know the work ethic that
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: it takes, right? And not only that, the networking that
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: you're already in the room with all the high-powered agents
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: and you're going to get to go to all the camps.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: You're going to have a leg up just developmentally Jalen
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Brunson is able to get in. By the way, Jalen Brunson,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: also not a lottery pick. Gary Payton II, not even drafted.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Seth Curry, not even drafted. These guys that if their
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: father played in the NBA, I would take that flyer.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Even like Bronny James last year, I know it's such
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: a lightning rod, but like talk to me in three years.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong. But those are the types of profiles
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of guys that they cash in later at like Gary
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Payton Jr., Gary Payton II, where it's like you might
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: not see it on day one after college, but for
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, they are late bloomers. And like the only one–
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: The only all-time great whose son was also an all-star
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: is Damanis Sabonis, right? Arvidas Sabonis.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: That is a great example. I completely forgotten there, but
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: you are 100% correct. Like.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: domanis like think about that team that team the portland
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: team had harvey grant domanis sabonis and uh who was
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: the third one.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Uh jeremy great jeremy great well yeah but like his
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: dad like okay okay gotcha i'm with you.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: So his dad uh art so like if you look
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: at that um yeah 96 blazers team gary trent Arvita
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Sabonis and Harvey Grant. So Harvey Grant had two kids
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: who went to the NBA. Gary Trent Jr. now with
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Bucks and Arvita Sabonis' son, Damanis Sabonis.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: So it's like, man. And then Dale Davis got there.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Dale Davis was in Jermaine O'Deal trade. That's where that was.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: And then Jermaine apparently has a kid. that's on the
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: rise because um I think I think Jay is our
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: mutual friend Jay Caspian Kang wrote a story for the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: New Yorker that was just it is actually very disturbing
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: about how the the money has completely changed the game
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: and all this stuff basically is pro basketball at the
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: child like at the at the youth level which is
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: now adding an additional priority to the the the kids
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: of former players.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an amazing piece. I highly recommend it at
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: the New Yorker. It's called Airball, H-E-I-R, which is an
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: amazing little pun there. It's a really interesting piece that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: he talked to Steve Nash. He talked to Jermaine O'Neal.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: He talked to Luka Doncic, who funded, who commissioned a
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: study about youth sports, youth basketball, and how to fix it.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: And Luka Doncic and Jermaine O'Neal are like, we sucked
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: the joy out of a lot of playing basketball.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: It's like, I.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I told you, I went to Chapel Hill to drop
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: off my nephew over at camp. And at the Granville
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Towers on campus at Chapel Hill, there used to be
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: a basketball court and a pool. And it was like,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you could go there during camp and watch all of
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: these future NBA players just play. And it was the
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: coolest thing. There was a brick wall and everyone was
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: sitting on it and just watching all these incredible athletes
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: years before they would make it in the NBA. Those
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: are gone. The idea of playing pickup at a camp
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: and just having fun is out. And it's a blemish
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: on society is that that cool little thing that we
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: had when we were kids is we could go to that,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: play pickup on that blacktop is now developed into a Chipotle, right?
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: And it feels like that is a symbol of where
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: we're at right now is that like these prospects, it's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: a job. Like what Jermaine O'Neal is describing is that
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: he's building an academy, which has a lot of merit.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: And I'm backing him. And I'm like, I think this
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: is smart. Rather than having them travel all over the
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: place and lose their friendships and lose their childhood, he's
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: building an academy where he can basically model the European
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: academy that Luka Doncic came out of. But it feels like, Bomani...
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: There's this kind of like the soul of the game
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: is being lost when you're basically treating youth basketball as
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: a job. It's like you're putting these guys into a
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: program at 10 years old and is like, yeah, you're
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: going to take a couple of classes, but we're really
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: here to turn you into an NBA player. And it
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: feels like, I don't know, LeBron, he's a one of one,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: like genetically hit the lottery like six times over. He
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: could have woke up one day and been an NFL
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Pro Bowl or NBA All-Star, whatever. It doesn't matter. But
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: he talks about it and he's like, I didn't have
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: a basketball trainer until like four years in the NBA.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: He doesn't need a basketball trainer when he's that good,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: but it reminds me. me that none of these players
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: these young talented players they're gonna get burnt out and
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: that's what Jermaine O'Neal talked about his daughter who was
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: a high level volleyball prospect she's like I'm done like
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: in high school I'm done I'm done with this.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about this a bit this week in
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: talking about the Achilles tear. And I was telling people
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: about I talked to a guy who worked in college
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: basketball and he said the real issue on the mileage
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: that people are talking about is the trainer time. It's
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: all about that stuff, by the way. And I don't
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: know if there's any way to get a real good
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: data set on this. I'm not convinced it matters that much.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I still think that nothing matters more to becoming a
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: professional than physical endowments. And I think in part, the
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: exposure that we talk about with the pro kids, you
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? But I'm not convinced that getting
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: these program games as everybody has that's necessarily going to
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: be the thing that gets you. When those guys go
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: in the gym looking for players, they're looking for how big,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: how fast, how high, how well do you shoot, right?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Things that you can by and large work on on
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: your own. And in fact, what they're actively looking for
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: are people that there's a ceiling left for you to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: help raise because that's how you get a raise is
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: by getting that guy that other people don't see and
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: there's room for expansion, right? And so getting these other
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: guys Again, I think there's a question to be asked
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: about how much that stuff matters. But I am with
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you totally on the soul of the game part. There's
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: a young man I used to mentor I haven't talked
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: to in a long time, and I rarely do this,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: but I'm saying his name in case any of y'all
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: know how to find him because it's hard to find
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: somebody named Mike Jones out in the wild. It's a
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: zillion Mike Joneses. Mike Jones from St. Louis who played football. Yes,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: who played football at Quincy University and last I heard
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: lived in Atlanta. If you know Mike Jones, tell him
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: to holler at me.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: I ain't hard to find. I see you, Dion.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: But anyway, he said something to me many years ago
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: because he played basketball in high school in a pretty
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: decent level. And I'd never thought of it. He was like,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Those prep school kids, it's a job for them.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I believe at the time we were talking about Ty
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Lawson for whom basketball, he clearly was not playing basketball
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: to go to school.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: That was Ty Lawson was asked after he declared for
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the draft if he was going to come back and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: finish his degree.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: And he laughed.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: But I'll never forget when he said that. And it
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: dawned on me the first time somebody leaves their school
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: for basketball, they leave home for basketball. It is officially
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: a job to them. Damn near all of them do
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: this now, right? They're all going to a prep school
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: or whatever. They're going to these colleges and we're seeing
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: these crazy transfer rates. That is a discussion for a
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: different day for why I think that's all so stupid.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: But it is absolutely a job very, very early, which
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: I think is a negative for the viewer and for
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: the league, because at least for me, at least, We're
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: in it for the human elements of what is going on.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not here just to see. I saw somebody make
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: the point once online and they were just like, somehow
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you're going to try to convince us that basketball was
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: better when the players weren't as good. And I'm like,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I understand why that sounds crazy to you, but it's
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: not crazy at all. What we enjoy is not the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: maximization of an equation of how good the players can be.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of other things, you know, that go
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: into it. But what are you supposed to do if
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: it's a world where the former players are sending their
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: kids out there and they have, they clearly outperformed their
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: draft slide, as you say. Now you got to find
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: a way to replicate what exposure they get. But the
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: only way you can do it is with traitors and
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: burn your kids out. Yeah.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, you look at how the Oklahoma City Thunder
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: celebrated that championship where they're just like, I don't even
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: know what, How to open up a champagne bottle. Like
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: I what is this beer is disgusting. You know, like
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: these kids don't party like they don't get they don't
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: go and like they don't have a college life. Like
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: all of that is out the window when your job
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: is at 15 years old is make sure you are
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: all about playing basketball and maximizing your chances at a
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: long NBA career and getting that money. I'm looking at
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: this story from Baxter Holmes at ESPN. He was following
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Cooper Flagg through this process. There was a little note
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: here in the story from ESPN that just came out
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: this week about Dallas Mavericks drafting Cooper Flagg. Remember on
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: the draft lottery night when Dallas won the number one
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: overall pick? They won the lottery. They showed Cooper flag.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: And it kind of looked like he was just like
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: a robot. Like he didn't, he wasn't looking happy. He
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't looking sad. He wasn't looking anything. And it's because
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: his family and everyone around him was like, don't react
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: because it's only going to be used against you in
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: social media or what have you. So just be as
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: uninteresting as possible. And that to me, that little scene
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: of Cooper flag on the night of the draft lottery.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: And they're like, just be as boring as possible because
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: that's probably going to be good for your brand and
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: like having advertisers and not being on social media. I
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: feel like all of these players are now coached any
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: sort of personality out of them. And that's why Anthony
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Edwards is so refreshing is because I think a lot
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: of these, these younger players who are awesome are, have
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: been coached to just be boring and don't go out,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: don't go party, don't go live outside of the gym
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: because it can be used against you on social media.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't like that, Bo, because like you said,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: I like the stories, the human element. And to me,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: it's not that I'm watching the NBA because I want
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: to see Chris Bosh pouring a bottle of champagne on
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: his head, but it does feel like we're losing something.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I remember we did something on Game Theory about overtime
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: at league. And we didn't work this into the piece,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: but I really wanted to. My question about overtime elite was,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and forgive me if I am being, I believe the
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: term is heteronormative, but I was like, all right, so
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: where the girl's at? I would like to think, at
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: least it sure appeared to be the case when I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: was a kid, that one of the great perks of
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: playing basketball at this high level and acquiring this level
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: of fame was, you know, the girls, if that's what
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: you do, right? Or that's what you're into. The girls
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: are there. I'm not trying to go. This is like
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: a cell block. We're just out here making highlights with
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: a bunch of dudes. Where are the girls at, right? Like,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: why can't I go to a school that's got some
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: girls at it? This is all part of it. You
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? And so, yeah, but as we
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: talk about what we talk about and looking at these indicators,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: the stakes have gotten so high and the dream feels
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: more attainable than ever. The point that I make, I'm
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: curious what you think about this. The dream feels more
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: attainable and it's harder to reach than ever because it's
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: more players and it's still only 30 teams. Even if
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: you add two more teams, you're only adding 30 more slots.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I've looked this up. I'm going to go right now
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: to the we'll call it the 2018 recruiting class. We'll
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: just throw a number out there. That's Zion Williams' class.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: How many real live nba players do you think that
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: in fact let me make this i'm going to look
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: up uh oj mayo as a result this is the
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: recruiting class of 2007 which was a highly touted recruiting
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: class right oj mayo derrick rose michael beasley kevin love
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: eric gorton um a lot of guys how many real
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: live nba players do you think this draft I mean,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: this recruiting class produced. I'm going to go down and
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: order on names. I have sorted this by win shares.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: High win share. Now we're going down.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: So that class? Yes.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: James Harden, DeAndre Jordan, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, Jeff Teague,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, Marcus Morris. We're at number eight
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: and we've gotten to number nine and we have gotten
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: to Patrick Patterson.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: OK, we are at.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Number 10 and we've gotten to Chandler Parsons. We are
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: at 11 and we've gotten to Costa Cufas. We're at
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: 12 and we're talking about James Johnson. 13, we had
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the appearance of a Morris. 14, we have J.J.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: Hickson.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying? Like there are guys down
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: here like Evan Turner, for example, who made decent money.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying this country really produces like 15, maybe
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: 20 for real NBA players a year. Not just guys
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: who got to the NBA and played a little bit,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: but like for real, really good NBA players. This country
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: produces maybe 20 of them a year. They're 30 something
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: five stars. That's how hard it is to make it
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: to the NBA. They're like 20 slots for Americans truly
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: per year to really have.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: A go at it.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: And the way that things are going, like the fact
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: that Shea Gildress Alexander was what, like the sixth straight
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: MVP to not be born in the United States? Yes.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: And Wemby's coming. So Anthony Edwards, he's still scratching and
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: clawing his way up. And it feels like He's the
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: dude who's trying to climb up the ladder and someone's
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: just kicking him down where it's like, man, you thought
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: you were coming and you're going after Nikola Jokic's throne.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: And then here comes Shea Gildress Alexander. As soon as
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: like Shea Gildress Alexander is out here trying to repeat
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: and three beat here comes Wemby. I don't, I don't
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: look at this class and say there's a lot of
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: international talent, like not super high end international talent. Zachary
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Risa Shea was the number one overall pick last year
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: from France. Um, But that's why a lot of the
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: hype around Cooper Flagg is on Cooper Flagg. It's because
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: he's not just this white kid from Maine. He's also
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: just American. We haven't had a guy who is this
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: talented come through in quite some time where it's like,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: all right, he's the one. he's the one in this
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: in this draft class and there's no one else that
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: can come close to Cooper Flagg and I.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Think that's tied to our discussion because look this country's
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: still producing basketball players right it's still producing very good
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: basketball players it's still producing all-star basketball players superstar tier
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: basketball players is what it is not producing. I mean,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: it's boring out. Who are the five best players in
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: the NBA? How many of them are from America? Now,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: some of them are like a Joel Embiid who played
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: high school basketball here. Shea Gilders Alexander who played high
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: school basketball here. But there's something going on prior to
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: high school, clearly, that is interfering with this country's ability
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: to produce superstar caliber basketball players. And maybe, just maybe,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: it's because once you turn it into a job, all
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: they're trying to do is get the job done.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: That's right. Hey- People don't realize LeBron James was two-time
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: All-State in Ohio in football. Basketball wasn't a job for him.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: It wasn't.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: He was interested in all this other stuff, including football,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: where I think in his heart of hearts, I think
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: he might have had more fun on the football field
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: than on the basketball court. But because of the nature
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: of the game and the violence of the game, he
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: saw basketball as having a longer tail in terms of
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: his career, right? But you can't tell me that these
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: guys who are coming in from Europe... So one of
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: my favorite things going to an NBA game is watching
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: at warm-ups, like in layup lines, all these European and
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: African players coming in and playing soccer at half court
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: with each other. Embiid, Luka, Siakam, Giannis. All these dudes
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: are just playing soccer and kicking the ball around.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: And it's like.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: They played soccer their entire lives and basketball came later
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: as just like, oh, I'm really tall. I think there's
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: something to that. Steve Nash, same thing. And they were
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: talking about it together, LeBron and Steve Nash, about how
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: the specialization at a young age is backfiring in a
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: huge way. And I think the NBA is trying to
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: figure out how to set up academies. They've been trying
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: to do this for years is try to figure out
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: how to make American youth basketball players, not just good,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: but like you said, great, because we have not done
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: a good job of that. And it doesn't seem like
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: we're going to be catching up anytime soon. And that's
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: why Cooper flag, like we're pinning a lot on this
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: dude because we're looking around the league and all the
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: best players are not from America.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: We so hyped up to make the Cooper flag thing happen.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: We ain't even got time to not like him for
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: the best reason there ever was not to like somebody.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: He went to Duke.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: He went to Duke. You ain't even got to be
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: white and go to Duke. Just to be clear, R.J.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Barrett ain't washed the Duke off yet, for God's sake. Right.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Like you ain't even got to do that. We have
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: not even gotten around to be like, man, fuck this dude.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: And we should. He went to Duke. He don't seem
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: like fully one of them, but I tell you this,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: Kyle Knipple, you got a lot to overcome with me, buddy.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Hey, don't forget the Charlotte Hornets. You know how mad
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: they were that they didn't get the number one overall pick?
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: They drafted not just his teammate, Kyle Knipple, but his
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Montverde teammate in Liam McNeely, like the kid from UConn.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: And by the way, before the draft, they were showing
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: this video on ESPN where they were like, here's the
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: McNeely kid. where he and Cooper Flagg were hanging out
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: and just like laughing in a photo shoot. And I
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, that's nice. Cooper Flagg and his twin brother.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: What a time.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I was just losing. I was like, man, that kid
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: looks so much like that Cooper Flagg. I thought it
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: was his brother. And I'm a white dude saying that.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: So you could do that.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Hey, look, man, I had the situation with them Harper boys.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, yo, which one of these is the
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: basketball player? They can swap them boys out. Dylan Harper
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and apparently it's Ron Harper Jr. Man, they could be
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: out here like I always thought the Morris's could do
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: because the Morris's used to have the same tattoos also.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: They could have easily just been sliding it out. I'm
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: glad since they got on TV, one of them got
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: a cut and one of them got the hair because otherwise,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: how the fuck am I supposed to know?
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: I don't even want to try. And I'm a twit.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: twin sister, but I'm a twin. I should be pretty
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: good at this. I should be pretty good at figuring
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: out who's who. Not with the Morris twins. I have
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: a hard time when one of them is on ESPN.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, is that Marquis or is that Marcus? Without
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: that little nameplate on the screen, I wouldn't be able
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: to tell you.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Tom Haberstroh. Check out Tom the Finder, his newsletter on Substack. Also,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: check him out at Yahoo Sports. Definitely check out his
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: story about the effects of being the son of a
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: pro on your draft stock or how that may actually
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: somehow be an undervalued resource.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you for that. And I appreciate it.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: And now.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Charlotte Hornets, let's see what this conknipple kid can do.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: I hope it's better than the rest of that UNC
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: and Duke line. It just keeps happening. No other team
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: in the NBA has drafted more UNC or Duke products
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: since 1989 than your Charlotte Hornets. How about that?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: here on The Right Time. We do this three times
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: a week. Hit the voicemail line 323-596-7767. The best fight
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: you've ever seen in a pickup basketball game.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: 323-596-7767.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Remember, follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us. Oh,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Ry probably handles everything behind the scenes.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sir.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Remember, follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us.
• 1:04:45
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• 1:04:47
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• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.