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The Title Division at Competition - Is It Worth It? · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_05: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_05: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_05: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_05: Winning the title division of a dance competition has been the goal of many dancers over the years.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_05: But depending on the event, this honor may not be as meaningful as it sounds.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_05: Joining us today to discuss the pros and cons of the title division are former studio owner and IBA judge Maria Palmerlow and competition team director Dana Generette.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Happy holidays and happy new year from Making the Impact.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's Courtney and I am your host.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here today with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Happy holidays and happy new year, Courtney.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't believe that it is time for a brand new year that is wild and crazy.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_05: What is 2023?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't even know.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: That's that's the future.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: The future is coming.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is about to be here in just a few days.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: The future is here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I'm excited.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_05: I'm excited for the rest of season four to finish up.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I say finish up, like we're just smack in the middle of it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_05: So we have tons and tons more episodes coming for you this season.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_05: But I hope everybody's been enjoying a nice holiday break, a nice little break from the routine.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, because I know we have.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I definitely have.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've been spending some time over the holidays in Maryland with my family and uh enjoying that family time, seeing some friends as well, celebrating Christmas.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I will be in New York City for New Year's, which is always so much fun to celebrate in New York.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's definitely wild and crazy in New York on New Year's, and sometimes I don't leave my apartment, to be quite honest with you, because that's the best kind of New Year's there is in New York City.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to avoid Times Square at all costs unless you're like one of those select people that get to enjoy Times Square or like get a gig that's overlooking Times Square or something.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: But like I you can't even get anywhere near the ball drop on New Year's in New York City.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you either have to like stay in your borough in your neighborhood and celebrate with the locals or try to get downtown and not hit get through Times Square because it's wild and crazy.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_05: Just watch watch it on TV.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_05: That'll be that will be plenty.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: Plenty of exactly.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I can't wait to celebrate the new year.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to 2023.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of the new year, that means that there are resolutions.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, what's your resolution, Leslie?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have one?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: Courtney, listeners, Courtney just completely put me on the spot here because I feel like every year December creeps up on you.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you're just like all of a sudden, Thanksgiving's over, and then you're like, what is happening?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's the new year.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_05: So a New Year's resolution.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, honestly, I feel like I've been saying this for several years, but there hasn't been a a really way to make it happen is to get back into dance class.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I've finally had a third surgery, which I hope will has has done the trick to fix my ankle problem.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_05: And I would love to just get back into a ballet class or two and just kind of enjoy movement again for movement's sake, uh, without any pain.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: So that's a resolution and sort of like a holiday wish for me.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I want that wish for you too.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that this time last year when we re were recording this episode of season three around the same time frame, that was your resolution.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_05: I know, I think it was.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, man, I have not had not have not been able to achieve that resolution.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: So maybe maybe another resolution is just to enjoy everything the city has to offer.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_05: You know, no, I'm not going out for New Year's Eve, but I do want to go see some more shows in the new year and just take advantage of everything New York City has because, you know, not some some of us aren't gonna live here forever.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and and I would love to just, you know, be out and about and do all the cool things that it has to offer.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we have the identical resolutions this year.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I do actually remember saying last year that I wanted to take advantage of the city more.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely think I did more than usual, I'd say, when it comes to seeing shows.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was a point in time right before I left for my summer teaching travels that I was just playing the lottery for Broadway St.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_05: You were, you play the lottery constantly.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you won quite a bit.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I saw some cheap shows, I saw some fantastic shows.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was just in Vegas in November with Revel, and I went and saw three different shows out there.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just I want to take advantage of our arts community and support them and be inspired as well.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so refreshing and exciting to, you know, we're we are so fortunate and so lucky to live in this amazing city that has art surrounding us that I want to take advantage of that more.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna continue on with that uh resolution this year.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I also am like really trying to get motivated to train in like Latin and salsa dance.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do that.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is I've been talking about it for a long time, and there's so many resources around me in Queens and in New York City that I just want to like just do it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make like put it in my schedule weekly.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, either it's like a group class or a private class.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I just want to learn the technique of salsa and Latin ballroom.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a goal of mine this year.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_05: Well, let's let's hold each other to it and we'll do season five resolution and look back and see if either one of us did anything we said we wanted to do.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: Sounds good.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so we are talking all about the title division today, and that's a hot topic, I think, in the competition industry and something that our Facebook group has uh really seemed like they wanted to hear all about.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: There was a recent post uh regarding title and asking questions about title, and it just blew up.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know what, maybe we should finally do an episode on the title division.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um can't wait to talk about it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: But before we jump into the episode, we have to tell you about our sponsor for this one, and that is Apollo Performance.
• 6:08
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• 6:11
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• 6:14
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• 6:16
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• 6:27
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• 6:32
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• 6:37
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• 6:45
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• 6:50
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• 6:58
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• 6:59
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• 7:04
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• 7:10
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• 7:13
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• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: And listeners, right now is the perfect time to do that because we're headed into the new year, we're headed into competition season.
• 7:39
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• 7:48
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• 7:52
  SPEAKER_05: So we would love to say thank you to a listener and a subscriber that I know and am grateful for her support.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you to Ellen Marshall, a studio owner, dance teacher, and dance parent from Off-Broadway Dance Center in Fulton, New York.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: Ellen says, I love making the impact and have recommended it to my dancers and their parents.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate hearing other points of view about the dance competition world from dancers, parents, studio owners, and judges.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's especially beneficial for dance parents who don't often understand or appreciate the amount of work behind the dance and the three minutes on stage.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for all you do to educate and encourage all of us.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, thank you, Ellen, and you're welcome.
• 8:26
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• 8:28
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• 8:31
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• 8:40
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• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right, listeners, it's time to jump on into this week's episode, our last episode of 2022.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: How exciting.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we are talking about the title division, the title category.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've heard about it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been to a dance competition, there's usually a title division that you can potentially enter in.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're automatically entered in it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk all about it today.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hot topic, I think.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we, like I mentioned previously, a lot of people in our Facebook group were excited to talk about title and and there were conversations being had.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we were like, you know what?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I went to Leslie and I said, we need to do this on the podcast.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't really talked about title.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are today with two brand new guests who are joining us on the podcast.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited to first up welcome a brand new judge to the IDA roster this season.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she's going to be bringing the studio owner perspective to this discussion on title.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to welcome Maria Pomerlow to the podcast.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Maria.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, everybody.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Nice to join IDA and this podcast.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! I'm super excited to have you on the roster this year and uh hope that we are able to get you out and about in judging world.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you also judge for other competitions as well.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yay for that experience.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I do.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a full-time adjudicator for a variety of companies outside of IDA and including IDA.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: And outside of that, um, I had a studio for a number of years, have since then closed and sold that off to one of my staff members, and here I am.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that now you're able to like judge even more than previously, because obviously studio owner life is a lot.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it is a lot.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I uh judge typically between two and four weekends as a studio owner, but nowadays I start mid-January and I don't stop until the end of May.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: You go, girl.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Nice up.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa, that's a lot.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: I need a look.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: And thankfully, I'm podcasting before it actually begins.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: I could not be on a May podcast.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't quite look as glamorous.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or probably sound as glamorous.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, we're like at the end of our rope with like verbal, verbalizing anything by May.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_05: So truly.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what though?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is fun to like hear how the conversations evolve throughout the season because we're not really in the season just yet.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, we you're about to start judging, but then by the time like May comes around and we're recording those episodes, judges are like heated.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: They have so much to vent about, so much to say because they've been watching it for four months straight.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um we have these nice fresh perspectives still as we head into the new year.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Maria, if you wouldn't mind sharing with our podcast listeners a little bit more about you, where you're based, your training, how you got into Studio World, and any credits and achievements you'd like to do.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like most people on this podcast, I started dancing when I was really young as a four-year-old growing up in Des Moines, Iowa, and actually a largely recreational studio, not having competed um until I was in high school.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: And guess I competed for title at that time.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh since then, I actually moved to the Twin Cities in Minneapolis, St.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Paul, and I taught for a number of years at Woodbury Dance Center in Woodbury, Minnesota, before opening my own studio across town called Lake Area Dance Center and owned that for about 15 years.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: I also instructed, believe it or not, seven days a week sometimes.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um my expertise is typically in top and musical theater and jazz, but I'm no stranger to teaching any style and certainly rehearsing any piece for competitive dance.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And outside of that, I did close my studio in 2020.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, COVID.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was the best thing for me.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I have a subset of my alum students now with the dance unit, um, based out of the same area that I owned.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, my most proud accomplishment has nothing to do with studio life.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a mom of an adult daughter who is actually a longtime dancer, competitively speaking, and also now a dance team coach.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then I have a son who's an entirely different world.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: He is a Muay Thai fighter.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, very different.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: But that's me in a nutshell and looking forward to heading out in January to judge.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I love that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that is so great.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Minnesota, the dance world out there, whoo, it's it's fierce.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yes, it is fierce.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, many times when I judge, I will say, like, there's this market, and then there's Minneapolis, like treating it as its own beast in a way.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Not meaning to sound elitist, but in Minnesota, there's really only two things to do.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: You play hockey or you dance.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 13:33
  unknown: Yep.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's so interesting to hear that because I I feel like there's definitely like I feel that's sort of the same thing in Canada.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: The Canada dance scene kind of feels the same way where it's like everyone plays hockey or all the girls dance, and that's just what you do.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone's just real good at everything they do because they have time to put into it, because there's not all the extra things getting in the way.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's so cold that you want to stay inside and you want to dance.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's all you can do, because that's pretty much seven months of the year, is uninhabitable.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: So spend it in a studio.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sweat.
• 14:07
  unknown: Sweat it out.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's awesome to have you here on this chat.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to hear your perspective and thank you for joining us.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and our next special guest is a longtime fan of IDA and the podcast.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they've been using our online critique service for the past few years, and they always come sending us a bulk order, which is really exciting.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So our judges are hard at work getting their dancers prepped for the season.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: They do pre-season critiques using our online critique service, and it's really awesome.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that they're gonna tell you more about their experience with it.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am grateful for her support.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then also I wanted to get a new, another perspective onto the podcast and a new guest.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to welcome Dana Jenner to the podcast.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Dana.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: How is every you know, everyone doing out here?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: We are doing good.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: We are so ready for title talk.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I am so ready for title talk.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think this is a great subject to get out to dancers and also parents, you know, involved in the comp, you know, world.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, tell us a little bit about you, like where you're based, how you got into dance, what you're currently working on now, any credits you'd like to share.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us all about Dana.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as all of us, we start, you know, I started dancing at the young age of two.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in the same studio from the age of two until I graduated high school at 17.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: I had the opportunity to start teaching dance at that studio when I was 15.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was able to, you know, have my own classes, which was really awesome.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: From there, I went and got my bachelor's in exercise science and minored in dance and did the whole dance team route.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm, you know, based in South Carolina, so I went to Winthrop University, got my degree there and did dance team.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Then I also I was able to cheer professionally with the Carolina Panthers um during my senior year of college, which was a whirlwind and a lot of fun, but but super awesome and was able, you know, to learn so much.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Then from there I jumped into teaching dance again at a local studio in the area here.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I am now currently teaching in Indian Land, South Carolina at Dance You.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to Dance Ute.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been there for the past um nine years working as a teacher to begin with, and then I've just been there to kind of help build the program.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And now I am the comp director and I am in charge of, you know, running all things competition, you know, that we love at the studio.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of a little bit of my journey and how I got into the dance comp world on this side instead of being a dancer in it.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then currently I'm also an adjudicator for another company, um, not IDA, but I do have a little experience with the judging dance competitions as well.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just a little of what I have going on.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, thank you for your support in what we do over here at IDA and always sharing your students' uh videos preseason with us.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I know our judges love seeing your dancers year after year.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a great tool to utilize, and I'm grateful for your support.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's just nice to have a fresh set of eyes.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Take a peek at your dances and give a new perspective before you actually get the real judges' critiques at competition.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, especially when you've seen the pieces for so long.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of these pieces they learn them, you know, early in the season.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we have months and months to watch them.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you're, you know, your eyes do, you know, the bad parts, you know the good parts, so you already know what to look for.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in your opinion, so when you're able to get fresh eyes seeing it for the very first time, and you're like, oh my goodness, I totally forgot to, you know, take a peek over there at this, you know.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just really nice to have a fresh set of eyes on your things before it actually gets on stage.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then the kids just always like to know, you know, like what do they think about it, you know?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: So when they hear your comments, exactly.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's when they hear like, ooh, I love this, and then they also gain a little bit of confidence before stepping on the stage, which I think is like the biggest benefit to getting the the critiques beforehand is just that little bit of you got this coming from somebody that you know doesn't see them day to day, week to week in the studio.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: So absolutely love it.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that perspective.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I didn't even really think of it like that, you know.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just think of the technical approach and everything, but then to just build their confidence and in a low-stakes way because there's no score attached, it's just feedback.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like I would have given this a triple titanium.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, we don't need to know that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's just more like here's some generalized feedback that will help you before you get that award, you know, labeled.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the biggest thing, you know, I try to focus on with the kids is we're not dancing for awards, you know, we're just dancing because we love it, and the feedback is gonna help us, you know, hone in our craft and get even better.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I just focus on the feedback, the feedback, and it's helped them grow.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like grow in a a healthier, you know, way instead of being so well in that way their perspective becomes what what you want their perspective to be, which is the same as yours, which is we're not dancing for the award, we're dancing for the feedback.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_05: So if they kind of internalize that, you know, they can go on to anything else in their life with the feedback-based mindset, not the what am I winning?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_05: What am I, you know, what's the thing I'm getting from this?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_05: Where's my trophy?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_05: Right, you know.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: So yes.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, y'all, I'm so happy that you both are joining us today.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And let's jump on in and talk all about title.
• 19:33
  unknown: Woo!
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yay! What do you want to know?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_05: I know so much the title.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well, so much.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think the so if listeners, many of you are dance parents.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_05: To our guests, many of our listeners are dance parents, and a lot of times, um, you know, especially in like in anything, in anything we do, you know, there's specific aspects of it that are not necessarily well known to the general public.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_05: So if you've never been to a dance competition, you don't maybe you don't know what title is.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_05: So, Maria, maybe can you give us just a general idea of what title even is?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_05: Like what does that even mean?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I told one of my friends last night that I was doing this podcast and it was about title competition, and this person was a non-dancer, and they were interested in what I had to say.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I tried to practice last night what exactly is the title competition.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: So hopefully I come off A plus.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for me, when I think of title, it's always involving a solo dancer.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's definitely most often at the advanced levels.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Though there are competitions that do offer titles at the novice or the intermediate level, um, for lack of a better word, but most often at the advanced level.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: As an adjudicator, typically I'm judging them on a different set of attributes than what I might judge for their score.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: So for example, I might judge them for their score based on their technique, their performance, and their stage presence.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: But when I judge them for title, I'm also judging them for those things, but maybe other things like their choreography or their costuming, something that has a little bit more pageantry.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I will also say that depending on what level we're at, whether you're at a regional event earlier in your season or you're at a national event, sometimes the whole title competition can amp up in a way at a national event where you might be involving things like a headshot or an introduction of yourself or some kind of improvisational element or a masterclass.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately the goal of it is so that you earn this literal title.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's miss, sometimes it's Mr.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: In more recent times.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen a few competitions offer gender neutral um titles as well.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you know I do like that actually.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it just a lot easier and approachable for anyone to be in the title competition.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: And usually it comes complete with, you know, a set of prizes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Relics that you know a dancer likes, or maybe a parent likes, or both like the sash, the crown, the jacket, the black, you name it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: So long explanation, but to me, that's what I see is title at a competition.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think you covered uh in every way, shape, or form.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you nailed that AAA plus plus plus.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I try, I'm here to impress people.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was awesome.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone will have a new understanding of what title means.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and like you kind of mentioned, it's it varies by competition, even like not even just on the regional and national level, but even just every single competition company is completely different with their expectations of what title is and what that means.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: You bet.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that means read the fine print, friends, when you decide to enter title.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't quite know what the qualifier is and what you're being judged on, and ultimately like the value that's held by the competition in the title.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_05: Dana, are you as the director of your competition team, do you have experience um entering any kids in title?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_05: Have you guys done that portion of competition in your experience?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, we have.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we've done it almost on accident at some competitions.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say on accident, it's because sometimes the title, it's like you have to sign up for the title portion of the competition beforehand.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: They will not take any entries, you know, at this, you know, they're on the spot.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: So usually you have to pre-register for a title.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you just have to get a qualifying score to be able to compete title at a certain at nationals.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's, you know, you get your title at nationals.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: So by qualifying, I've had students just kind of question me, like, what is this?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where I'm like, you know, honestly, I I kind of, you know, I had to do research as well because growing up, I did not compete title.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, you know, I gave a small like, oh, you know, that's just, you know, it's for nationals.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to win, you know, top, you know, junior dancer or, you know, mini dancer.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, I'll send your mom more details.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to go home and research myself.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, oh, okay.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: So then I send out, you know, basically what Maria said, you know, that, you know, depending on the competition, these are the stipulations, these are the things that you have to do to qualify, and you know, blah zé blah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we've done it, but we don't do it a lot.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: One, because every competition does it a little bit differently.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: If we don't go to your nationals, then I tell your parents, the parents, there's really no need in us, you know, doing national, oh, doing the title portion because it's we're not going to go to their nationals.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: If we go to the nationals and they have a program where you know they're looking for a little bit more, like maybe an interview question, maybe you have to do a little bit of community service and show what you've done.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: You have to take a master class when there's like multiple steps, and I'm like, you know what, this is great.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: I will, you know, give you the information and you guys can do it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: If it's just a separate score sheet, but no different feedback, and there's no there's no there's really no prestige, I think, behind it, then I'll tell the parents we won't bother.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we'll if they want that experience, we'll find a different program for them and try to get get them into that if that's what you're looking for.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I think it's important to remember that again, it differs from competition to competition, but like you, like Maria was saying, when you're when you're judging title, sometimes you are given a completely different rubric of of how to score it or what to look at.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: But occasionally you're not giving feedback.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_05: You're giving a score, and that's all you're giving for title.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so Dana, like you're saying, like you know, if if you're going into a competition looking for feedback and the title portion of it doesn't give you feedback, it gives you a score and that's all.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_05: Is that really worth the entry fee if what you're looking for is feedback?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_05: So I think that is something really important when you know teachers and parents are considering, okay, are we entering title at this competition?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_05: Really find out what they're offering as the result of entering.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_05: Because if it's just you got a 95 and a sash, like, well, that's a piece of fabric and a number.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: I will say, like Dana said, I do allow or did allow my dancers to enter into title.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: There were always unique situations where I would have a kid, typically they were younger and they would express wanting to enter into title.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I usually would take pause.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's nothing wrong with your kid having this like motivation to, you know, add another relic or get some sense of achievement by getting this title.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: But often as a studio owner, when a young person asked, there was usually something underneath that they were really asking.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, what is it that really is your goal?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's something specific, maybe measurable that really we should be going after first before you enter that title.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I always had a moment of pause.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, if you want to enter, great.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: But maybe it was a checking point, especially at the younger ages, for me to say, okay, what do you really want to achieve?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: There might be a goal related to flexibility or to technique or to being recognized in a special way.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe a special award is sufficient.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that doesn't necessarily take any more money.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then as a teacher, it's important to recognize that.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Don't just, you know, mark up the competition fee or anything and enter them on their behalf without taking pause of saying, well, you know, look out for your kid.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, but I'm not saying don't do it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, as a studio owner, I loved when my kids earned title.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: What a great way to promote um my studio on its own social media, for example.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: It really did help build my reputation.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: So uh for me, it was like, of course I let them enter like Dana, but there was always something underneath that they were trying to get after.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, no title.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to think about um I I have a lot of thoughts on title.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up doing it actually, uh, back in the day.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And winning it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And don't be shy.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: That is true.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I want I think I won it occasionally.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the one time I did was Star Quest, and we just had Steve Wappel on the podcast on, and I hope everyone listened to that levels episode because it was such a great discussion.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: But like it was always a goal of mine to win title at nationals, and finally did.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, after if you've listened, that was pre-levels, everybody.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, winning a title at nationals was a huge achievement.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But even back then, I was kind of like, this feels a little gimmicky to me because you're entering into title and you're paying a separate entry fee to have a essentially a separate competition.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like a its own individual competition for the title division.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And at this in particular event and some others, like there wasn't anything extra.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't anything else you had to do.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: You just had to, you pick your if you have three solos, you have to pick which one you're entering title, and that one's eliminated from high score overalls.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you would usually put your dance that felt like more like, you know, presentation and and uh theatrical or maybe expressive and or emotional lyrical, you know.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You want like that powerhouse lyrical dance to win title, and then your like super technical, like abstract contemporary might take first overall.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're trying to like hit both overalls in the title division and this and the first overall.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it also depends on like who shows up for title and right.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_05: And w and which dance they pick.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_05: Because that could be a determined factor.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like exactly you might have picked the wrong dance for title because based on like you said, Maria, like the different things that we're looking for as judges, like again, hopefully that's explained and laid out on the competition's websites.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes I don't think it is.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, Dana, you're like, I just happened to get my kids were entitled.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know like how they got into the category.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: But like there should be an explanation as to like what the expectations are for the title division, what that means, maybe like recommendations on like how to best approach this division.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I th there are so many times where I've been a judge and I've been like, wow, this dancer is amazing, but they had the wrong dance and title.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that dance was in title and this one was for overalls, but like they just didn't know.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like how are they gonna learn that feedback if we're just giving them a regular score?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I might mention it on the critique, but well well, for me as a studio owner, the title portion of the competition actually helped guide which competitions I chose in the first place.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I tended not to frequently pick competitions where you could register for title day of that required a separate fee or that only involved one routine.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: So there are competitions out there where you have to do multiple solos, and perhaps that combined score helps you earn title.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like that.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I also tended to bias my studio towards um title competitions that had something above and beyond.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, excuse me, I do come from a pageant world outside of dance, but there is something to be said if in the title competition you have to introduce yourself because you will have to do that in audition.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's a transferable skill.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: If you have to uh do a little bit of an improvisational element, because there's going to be times where, say, a guest choreographer comes in your studio and says, Show me what you can do.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you will, or if there is master classes associated with it.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not just about I really know how to hit a contemporary solo with all these tricks and skills, but by the way, I can also show my proficiency in tap, musical theater, ballet technique.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I tended to go towards those where I had more life skills I could transfer beyond the world of dance.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: And tended to just get away from the oh, I can register day of, oh, I pay this extra fee.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And now I get a separate score.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Just my opinion.
• 32:22
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• 33:04
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• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: When there's that headshot edition, when there's the class aspect, when there's the improv challenge, when there's something that takes multiple things and accumulates it into one overall final total package score, that feels worth it to me.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love how title has evolved through the years since I did it 20 years ago.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like I said, it was kind of just like we just paid an extra entry fee to win a crown.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's it's definitely gotten it's it's evolved.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, with a lot of like I love the idea of the two multiple solos, like showing versatility.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are you excelling at both styles?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: How did you do?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love when there's a headshot involved because everyone has a different expectation for what a headshot's supposed to look like.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like usually the people on a judging panel have had headshots done or used them professionally so actually can give like maybe don't print it on super glossy paper.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we're past black and white.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it shouldn't be a umbe not your hands.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe maybe not a glamour shot, maybe it's too airbrushed, maybe this shouldn't be an iPhone photo.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's so many.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's a all-star podcast episode.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: An awesome headshot at an affordable price.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's not on your iPhone.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: On the portrait mode, like they snapped it from the batting it, friend.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_05: Batting it, kid.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_05: Oh Lord, that's hilarious.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_05: I want to talk a little bit about so so let's say we're thinking about entering a dancer in a title competition that does have a little more to it than just, you know, ending up there.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_05: Dana, what are you thinking in terms of how to best prepare those dancers?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_05: You know, what what are you doing maybe a little bit differently to prepare a dancer for title than you would just for their regular run-of-the-mill solo?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: I am definitely um kind of like Maria said, I'm focused more on the pageantry of their performance.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: We are working on stage presence.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: We are working on are you well spoken when giving a presentation?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: A few of my students have had to give a presentation before.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we had to talk about how you should stand when you're in front of an audience and you're not dancing.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Dancers do not know how to stand still.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: We pay to.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, in order to, you know, no fidgeting, no um stepping side to side, you know, doing a little two-step while you're giving your presentation.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So focusing on more of, you know, piggybacking off of what Maria said, you know, more skills that are transferable, like outside of dance, you know, you have to know how to talk in front of a crowd.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: You have to know how to carry yourself in in a room full of, you know, peers.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it helps you with your networking.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: So are you going to be standoffish when you're doing the audition class or are you gonna be in there encouraging others, you know, making eye kind of eye contact when you s look at the teacher?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: And there's just a lot of more um etiquette, and you know, we're not just focused on your dancing, we're you know, it's total package.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: What are you what are you able to show off not just on the dance floor but in different areas, you know?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that that's so valid.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I love the idea and the concept of the class taking and like almost like if it's class taking or if it's an audition class, like I think that's a great element to a title competition.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we would typically see this more in like the national level because like we know at regionals there's not a lot of time to do classes, but to have people observing how you take class, I think that's a really important and important skill because we say it and we've said it on the podcast, I'm sure, before, but like as professionals, if that's something you want to go on to do as a professional dancer, people are watching you the moment you walk into the audition room and they are watching how you learn the choreography, not just when you're auditioning.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like class taking skills are important.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: I totally agree.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, in life, 99% of what you do is about the process of doing it, and it isn't necessarily about the product, meaning the dance routine.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to know, I would rather reward the people that I know I want to spend 12 hours in a rehearsal with because they take class really well, they learn really fast, they say thank you when you give some feedback.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I like that aspect of a title competition because ultimately it translates to, oh, I want to spend time with this person.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: They really are an exemplary person.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and the titleists, sometimes at some competitions, part of the award is you get to be the assistant at the convention.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_05: And that's, you know, same thing.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_05: You I I wouldn't want to give that position to somebody who rehearsed a dance for nine months and did that dance really well.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_05: Great point, but can't take a class and can't pick up choreography and can't regurgitate it immediately because that's what an assistant has to do.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_05: So, like, you know, being able to make sure that your title list is well rounded, you know, before they come into the competition, because that could be part of it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's like such a huge factor in uh me as a convention teacher.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I see them on Friday in in their solos, blowing my mind.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I can I say on the critique, I cannot wait to see you in class.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then not everybody, but like occasionally it's just a complete epic fail once they get in the class because they don't know how to pick up choreography quick.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: They aren't focused, they don't know how to pay attention, they're not paying attention to details, they need everything spoon-fed and handed to them or rehearsed over and over and over.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like Courtney.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's the same thing as title.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if that, if that I think that's such a great point, Leslie, because I've worked for a previous convention where it was if you won a certain level at like you know, first through third at regionals, then you get to be an assistant for the assistant conventions.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then like the I don't know how you work in in that in that setting.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very it's two different things.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Competition and class making is two different things.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_05: You don't take tap, but now you're the assistant and you have to help me be wrapped up.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like no.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like also be well-rounded, take tap.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So amen.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love the versatility aspect, like again, like going back to that idea of like having multiple solos, but like in in that scenario, if that's part of the title division, then I do think that there should be some type of rule that says it has to be like two contrasting solos, because we all know that every dancer has multiple solos, and most of the time they're truly the exact same solo with a different song and a different costume.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: It is very frustrating because many times the title winner, if it's based on two solos or more, it's in the contemporary and the open category.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or the contemporary and the lyrical category.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Personally, if I had a child who had multiple solos and that was the qualifier for title, one of them had to either be tap or musical theater because I felt that as much contrast as I can give compared to the contemporary, which I will say, like it wins more, at least in Minnesota it does.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: And we would always try to find, if they had multiple solos, how to show versatility.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Beyond just potentially in a class setting, um, trying to earn title, that said.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_05: I think speaking of that, too, it's important to remind the listeners that title encompasses you don't have a title, you don't have a lyrical title winner, a contemporary title winner.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_05: You have the title winner of the senior category.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_05: So that means your tap solo is competing against her contemporary solo, against his jazz solo.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_05: And so you're not necessarily, you know, uh occasionally, and I love it when this happens, a tap solo is gonna win senior title or whichever level.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_05: And people are get all up in arms about like, well, but the contemporary showed all of this, and you're like, Yeah, but the tap, like there's just no comparison with the the you know dynamics and the rhythms and the whatever.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even if they're selling it, you know, and if they're selling it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_05: And so I I think people really need to remember again, that is that is a thing to think about when you're choosing your title solo.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_05: Think about who else might be there because fierce phenomenal tap dancer might be there, and your contemporary dance, which might be very good, but like isn't engaging or exciting or or fresh, you know, like that that plays into it.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's also important to pay attention if they award a separate miss from a mister versus just one title.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because let's get real.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going to compete for miss, you're gonna have you know 50 to 100 girls competition going after that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you're competing for Mr.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: For maybe, maybe it goes both ways.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes that Mr.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: title is truly outstanding, but sometimes if he had competed with all genders, yeah, he wouldn't have won.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't hold a candle, yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just something to think about when you're entering title.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like for all the sexes, I tend to be like just award one title for the strongest dancer, if you will.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Or I see that that's kind of in transition right now in the dance competition world.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: It is, yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it isn't necessarily there yet.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: But me, I I competed for title in 1992 people.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Or was strictly miss and a mister.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I always would look at the Mr.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: Counterparts, okay.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: Two people, you have a 50% chance of winning.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: And here I am with 111 different girls, so that gives me less than 1% chance.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I know it's so much more competitive for me.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's us in the industry all the time as female dancers.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just the reality of it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: There are quadruple the amount of females dancing in this industry than there are males.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I do agree.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think we should eliminate the gender titles of the title competition and just have it be the top dancer of the year, the top titleist, best title dancer, the end, whatever you want to call it.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think that it is fair at all.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people are like, oh, well, boys and dancing, yay, we're pretty like, you know, we're showcasing boys.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's great.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're there.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're we're gonna, they're gonna do great.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're gonna be fine.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's unfair if the the ratio, you know what I mean?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you just said.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's just more inclusive, too, because every once in a while you're gonna come across a non-binary dancer.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_05: Who wants to compete in titles?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: Who wants to compete in title?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, it always comes across as uncomfortable where I can't necessarily discern are you competing for Miss?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: Are you competing for Mr.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: or are you non-binary?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get real.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just would rather just judge the dancer's performance and not have in my mind what is their identity.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to see the show, I just want to be entertained, um, if you will.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: So agree more.
• 45:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm with you, Courtney.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: I would love just a dancer of the year, and it doesn't matter this as long as you are dancer of the year.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that our industry continues.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Some companies have started it, and I hope more catch on.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like that they need to move a little faster at that, but you know, we're getting there.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: We're trying everything, everything in time, I guess.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: So title, another thing that I really enjoy about again, we're speaking on the titles that have like more to it, is improv that you hinted at earlier.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you said, these life skills, I think that's what is a pro about title, is when the competition has actually like sat down and thought about our title competition.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, to me, there are a lot of competitions out there where it's a money grab.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not even like, I'm sorry if this is offensive to any competition owner listening, but if if you're hurt by it, then you know it's true.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's if there you're not bringing anything else to the title division besides it's a separate category, and you have to pay an extra$50 so you can and that money is going towards you winning a sash and a crown.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, I guess.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot of people that want that win.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's the other thing.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of dancers who maybe aren't really top ten dancers who are entering into title because it's an automatic win for them.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of the top 10 dancers are like, psh, title's a joke, I'm not doing it.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_05: And they don't want to and you you do see that a lot.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like it's it's a it's a very strange phenomenon as a judge when you're watching the most the very best dancers you've ever seen that weekend, and you're like, wait, why why is she not in title?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_05: And then you look at the people who've entered title and you're like, okay, this doesn't make any sense if you're thinking of title as being an elite opportunity or an or an opportunity for the elite dancers, it feels like it has been switched, and I don't quite understand like how we got here, except for the fact, like you said, Courtney, unfortunately, it is another way to make money, but the people who I think back in the 90s used to compete in title, you know, and and would there'd be 111 kids in your category, they've realized that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_05: They're like, Well, I don't I don't need that sash or that jacket because it's not real.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: There's nothing real to it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's a it's a thing I've won, and it really cost me$50.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_05: Really, what you did is you paid$50 for a jacket.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they do it at all sorts of things outside of dance too.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, let's talk about Miss USA and Miss America.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: They have an they have a people's choice and you pay for your votes.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do you yes?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: So do you really want to pay to become a finalist?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: It it happens outside of dance too.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: But for me as a studio owner, it was I'm I I played both sides.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm willing to admit that.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: There were times where I would show up at a competition and I'd be like, only three people entered in advance for title.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Let me put somebody in here.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let's let me put somebody in here.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or if somebody would ask me, hey, can I enter title?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't hesitate.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I would allow them to enter title.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: And even if I was enabling the problem, if you will, of it being a cash grab.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just being honest.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: I I played the game too.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, and if their parents were willing to invest in that, then fine.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: And they'll get a second score, maybe reflective on title.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: I will say that I often ended up back in the classroom and they'd be like, Well, what does this mean?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: They don't even know.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: You got a you got a 91.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: That's what it means.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: You got a 20 out of 20 on the costume portion of your score.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank your mom.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it means.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: She rhinestoned the the living out of that.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's I think that's kind of where it's evolved.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, I I think that what is important, and especially for like a lot of the competitions that, you know, are might be listening and hearing our title chat, like, I think we're at a point now where there needs to be more included in the title division.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think everyone is caught on to the fact that like, okay, this could be like an easy win, this could be a quick little money grab, this could be an opportunity for a dancer who usually doesn't get in the top ten to be acknowledged and recognized, but they're walking away with this beautiful crown and top score overall first place dancer is you're just getting a plaque and you know, don't get to post those achievements of title when title only had five competitors in it.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, it it's just well, and maybe there was no minimum score to achieve title.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes at competitions, if there's one person in title, they win title.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's an automatically there.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_05: There was never, you know, there was never like oh, you have to get a 95 or up or whatever it is to to win title.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_05: And that's where I think is that's the unfortunate piece of it, is and that's what happens with you know the kids who don't enter, because they're like, well, it doesn't, you know, I would have swept title if it mattered to me, but I'm gonna stay over here in my overalls and like get first overall, and that matters to me.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_05: Because if if anybody can just win title based on whatever the highest score of that division is, that highest score could be an 89.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's like we don't know based on who's entering.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_05: So that's that's when it kind of gets a little bit devalued.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_05: I guess like what does title even mean if the highest score of the title division was a 90?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I don't know.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if their solo didn't place in overalls.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because that means that their technique wasn't up to par against the rest of the competition.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: So most likely their technique score, if they didn't place in the top 10, that means that there was better technicians ahead of them because usually your technique score is weighted the most, most often.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they're an exceptional performer.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's how they ended up winning title because it is a little bit more about that theatrical performance quality.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if they were a technician, they would have been in top 10 and would have placed higher.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's it is it is interesting to see like how that plays out.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think that a lot of people have, you know, have been like, I'm not gonna spend the extra money for what?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: A crown?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'd rather earn my first place against everyone.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like with that being said, I think it uh what are your perspectives on title for different levels of dancers?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do we think that, like you mentioned, Maria, like back in the day, it was mainly for advanced dancers, but now I think there's a lot of competitions that have opened up the actual title division, like not the title.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's some competitions that you quote unquote win title by winning first overall, like it's like combined.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to pay extra to enter title, you like still get the crown and the sash and the whatever if you win first overall.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then do we feel like that should be you like in every division, or should it be like more prestigious and only for higher skilled dancers and the advanced level?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I wish you would have panned to my face as you were asking this question because it was really telling.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get frank.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you want a title, it should really be for the most advanced versatile dancers.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: I really am opposed to awarding a title at a novice, an intermediate, and advanced level.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Then it just becomes about how many different awards can we give at a competition so that everybody feels good.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I do want my dancers to have their confidence.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want them to walk away from a competition crushed, but I would rather they have a day where they didn't win and it wasn't their day than to see, you know, a plethora of awards being given out.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, title really should be reserved for like the absolute pinnacle of the dancer who can do multiple styles, who is in the overall separate from title, who you know, based on the rules that hopefully everyone's following, by the way, is studying, you know, 10 plus hours a week in their home studio.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, and I would just love to see it just have so much more meaning by eliminating, dare I say, a lot of people from even qualifying.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I I just I I am not a fan of the you know, novice junior miss at such and such competition.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I think that just is going to exacerbate some other issues we have within the dance competition industry about the abusive levels.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like if you're gonna be Miss whatever dancer of the year, then you should absolutely be the best all around.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are the best all around, you probably are training a little bit more.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, and if you're and it's a weird thing about levels, you know, all of us grew up with no levels.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: So the levels, it's really not mind blowing, but it's just you know, it's new.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we are working the system to like make sure everybody has a place to fit and everybody feels included.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think if you're gonna win, you know, the top dancer of the year, you should be it should be the best dancer, and it you can't have three best because you uh intermediate, uh, you know, novice intermediate and advanced type in who's really the best.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: So or maybe if comp's combined, like if title was completely separate, like truly separate, like whereas it's an entire division that any level can enter, but you're all against each other.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, levels are thrown out the window when it comes to the title division, and you're judging with this criteria and there's these expectations and there's this and that.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're an intermediate dancer and you want to enter in title, you might be up against the advance and you might come in second.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: You never know, because you don't know who's entering.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can't but I agree.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that it is smart or necessary for competitions to be awarding title in every division.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's turning into automatic handouts of trophies and crowns, and it's then making dancers look like that they're, you know, I I'm a winner and I'm one and I won first place and I won title when it was pretty much you paid to win, and would you you you didn't even make and or there was nobody else in the category.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like so many factors.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_05: Great Aunt Sally doesn't know that.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_05: You post that on Facebook and she thinks you're the very she thinks you won Miss Merrick.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like you shouldn't it's it's it's just not that.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_05: I think it creates a false sense of reality.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I think there's a hundred percent room for your novice and intermediate level kids to feel valued and feel special and feel like they've done a good job and feel proud of themselves without having to give them the first place overall of the whole competition and or title, you know, that's you're not there yet.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_05: And let me be really real.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes you're not gonna ever be there.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_05: I did not make it to Broadway.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_05: Am I sad?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, but like that is reality and you just deal with it.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like, no, some of us are not gonna win title.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and by the way, the way it is.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, if you're trying to make it on Broadway, I never had anybody ask me, did you win a title?
• 56:16
  unknown: Nobody cares.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_05: That jacket is real nice.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like the jacket's so nice.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm jealous of all of you dancers of the year who have the fancy jacket.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I want nothing so bad even as a 37-year-old adult.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's not for me.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_05: I did not win it.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_05: And also, Broadway doesn't care.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: No at all.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've seen it occasionally listed as a one-line on a child performer's response.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Child's resume.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: A child performers resume.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: At the national level only, it should ever be listed.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I because that it again, there's if you won regional and there was a hundred entries and there was two people in title, do not put that on your resume.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so I think we're gonna we I think we have to have a headshot and resume episode, Leslie.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think we have to do that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for that idea.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because there have been a lot of discussions on like what should we put on a resume and like is title what you put on your resume?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't really need to know your competition achievements on your professional resume and personally.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_05: So I do think if you're a kid, and this would definitely go into like the episode, but you know, if you're a kid and you're auditioning for your your middle school production of the music more, sure, put your title on on because you gotta have something.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_05: There's nothing there.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah you know, danced at Mrs.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_05: So and So's dance studio for seven years, proficient in ballet tap and jazz, one teen miss whoever, whatever, junior miss whoever.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_05: That's fine, but that's like gotta go once you kind of advance in your life.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_05: Eventually it should leave a resume.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I don't know Dana well, I bet that, you know, we do want them to enter title because we have to write bios as adjudicators, and it does mean something if Dana and I can go out and say, you know what, we have raised national title winners.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_03: We have raised dancers of the year.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it does it there is a win for us as adjudicators.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like we're poo-pooing it across the board.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: We're not.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_03: It does help your resume in very unique circumstances, and it does help a studio's reputation, a competition director's, you know, uh reputation and our bios to know that, you know, if we're gonna evaluate you, we should know what we're talking about.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that phrase matters uh as an adjudicator.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's included in mine.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, when Courtney asked before the podcast to send some pictures, I didn't send pictures of me, I sent pictures of my national title winners.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I'm glad you made that point, Maria, because you know, our students' achievements definitely mean a lot for the studio and for your reput reputation as a teacher and a coach.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you do, as much as you don't like your students to focus on the wins and the trophy, you kind of do have to show it off sometimes.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you want people to know, like, hey, you know, we are actually, you know, doing what we're supposed to be doing and the kids are achieving the goals that you know we're setting for him here for them here in the studio.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so people will want to come and take class with you and learn from you and understand that, you know, you do know what you're talking about.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I definitely see that point as well.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, all of it's great points.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I definitely think it should be an incentive for the higher level, you know, if you're if you're stuck in intermediate and you're just chilling there, win first and intermediate, and there's not a title division intermediate, maybe that should be like the motivation if that's your goal to like win title, to like push you to that advanced level.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do agree.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think that, you know, with that, if competitions approached it like that and only having that in the highest division or as an as a division on its own entirely, then those achievements will be even more meaningful when they're in your bios and being able to say your studio accolades that my dancer won title, because everyone across the board in the industry will know that that was at the highest level and that and that matters.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: But like the competitions who are kind of doing the everybody gets a trophy and everyone's a winner and we're awarding this and offering this in you know, something as a novice or a recreational, it's like they're just there to have fun.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're just they want to get out there and put their dance, like put their dance on stage, get in their costumes and wave at mom as they bow and like have a good time.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do we need a title division?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, I don't think we do.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not the point of that actual level in a competition.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and even with like novices, like how you know, should a novice dancer have multiple novels.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, it should be a rule that they shouldn't.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: So like there's gonna be a company just yet another idea.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: How many solos is too many solos?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh many heart.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna we're gonna end on that one.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've definitely done like a how to take your solo to the next level, and I've vented it many times on that podcast about how we don't need multiple solos, but I think that's a good that's a great one.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: Although there are some competitions where the title qualifier is to have at least one solo because either you need to evaluate both solos for an aspect of versatility or they need to be separate.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not that you know it shouldn't exist, but definitely I do see the excess.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes at the lower level, it just doesn't make sense.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: I will say though, when we going back to what you were saying, Courtney, about like having an intermediate title, it was common for me.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: My studio, its teens and seniors were largely operating at the elite level, but my juniors and my petites were novice to intermediate level.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes those younger ages would start to ask about entering title.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: And rather than literally entering title just at the value, it at least gave me a clue what the dancer wants from their dancing.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe it's time to evaluate like, are there extra classes that they can take in order to study more and reach that goal?
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_03: Or if a parent asks, it helps me understand a little bit more about my client and what they wait may want for their dancer, whether it's a great parent or a high maintenance parent, at least to have more information when someone at the intermediate or novice level starts to express an opinion about wanting to enter.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it also helps me start conversations about extrinsic rewards like the title and the sash and intrinsic awards like Dana was talking about earlier.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: Just we're here to love dance.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_03: And how do I how do I help them get more after the ex intrinsic things, the the self-motivating things, you know what I mean?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh Leslie, how are you feeling?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we talked a lot about title.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, there's always more to say as usual, but I think I would love to just hear a little a little snippet, last thoughts from both of you.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_05: That's usually how we have our episodes lead out, is just a small last last thing from each of you about title.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um, any advice or thoughts you'd like to give to the dancers, the parents, studio owners, just about the topic.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: I say if you're a parent out there and um the title portion of the competition is something that you're interested in or your child is, I think um, like Maria said, definitely talk to your teacher about it first, get their opinions on it, and then kind of dig into the reasoning behind why your child wants that or why that's something that you may want as a parent.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: If it's because, you know, you just want your kid to have the opportunity to have a crown, then maybe that's not the best pressure to put on your kid, you know.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or if it's because your kid sees that if you are going to these competitions where title really does hold a lot of value because you had to, you know, work really hard to earn it.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing that, you know, the kid is like, you know, I want that.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: I want to, you know, put in that work to get that, you know, that prestigious award because I had to work hard for it.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just understanding why they want it.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then if it's something that you're willing to go on that journey with with your student, I say absolutely, you know, um foster them and help them get to where they want to go.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: Cause that is our job as dance educators to help kids find their way and find what it is that they want to do with their dancing.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we, you know, have to help them along as best we can.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my little two cents on that.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: I liked your two cents.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um It's worth a dollar.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: As for me, gosh, I would definitely say there's nothing wrong with wanting to enter title for any sense of achievement, even if it is enter day of for this extra fee.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it can be a confidence booster to your dancer to win it, even if it really doesn't mean a lot.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: It helps to start boost that boosting that confidence.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_03: In the long run though, I really would advise competition studio directors or parents or dancers to think about the meaning of title and that the competition itself should be really involved.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_03: You do want them to have to introduce themselves or interview.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that translates to just getting a job in life, but you do want them to have an improv aspect potentially because that helps them learn how to react on their feet and in real time, whether it's in the dance world or in a corporate setting as adults.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you do want to have a performance aspect, their routine.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: You want to know that they're confident when they're given material.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you do want to know about like how they take class, like what's their etiquette like?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are they polite students?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Do they take corrections?
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_03: Are they versatile students?
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, we have to spend time with people all of our lives, and you want to find people that you want to spend time with.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: And to find those kinds of competitions that offer those various aspects is just gonna make for better adults in general and more meaning to the title achievement itself.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode all about the title division at competition.
• 1:06:21
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• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can find Maria at Maria Pomerlow and Dana at Dana underscore Delisa.
• 1:06:30
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• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Axis Dance Competition, where Linda Diamond's years of experience brings you the vitality of a new beginning.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: Teachers, studio owners, dancers, and parents have shared what they want in a dance competition.
• 1:07:11
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• 1:07:39
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• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned for more great episodes coming your way this season, including Competition Trends, Stage Fright, and our next spotlight feature.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: We would like to wish all of the dance families around the world a very happy new year.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in 2023.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, keep dancing.