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Susan Smith Leaves Her Children to Drown in a Lake, Now Wants Out of Jail · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: In the last hours, murder mom Susan Smith cries sobs,
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Speaker 2: breaks down in front of a parole board, begging to
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Speaker 2: be released. She says she has quote improved during her
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Speaker 2: years behind bars. I wonder if that could be said
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Speaker 2: of her two little boys, Michael and Alex. She drove
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Speaker 2: her car into a South Carolina lake and then blamed
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Speaker 2: an unknown black mail for hijacking her car. What a
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Speaker 2: load of bs technical legal term. Well, thankfully this time
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Speaker 2: at least the parole board got it right and saw
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Speaker 2: through her crocodile tears. That's right, Susan Smith, parole denied. Hello,
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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:00
Speaker 2: being with us. What exactly happened? What led us to
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Speaker 2: this day, this moment, these crocodile tears and this parole
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Speaker 2: board hearing? See if this jogs your memory, listen.
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Speaker 3: Layol love and here's a lady. You come on dot
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Speaker 3: Dollar and some guy jumping into a red light with
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Speaker 3: her car with her two kids in it, and he
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Speaker 3: took off and he got out of call here at Ohio. Yes, Layol,
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Speaker 3: let her call and I don't rhy, I need to
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Speaker 3: go along. Get'm down here and a car. But we
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Speaker 3: need to add a magna protege.
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Speaker 4: What color was it?
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Speaker 3: A burgundy magna protege? We're going to don't get him.
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Speaker 5: Going pay him? They got two.
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Speaker 2: I love that degree of detail. You know. I don't
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Speaker 2: even know where to go first because they got such
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Speaker 2: awesome experts. But I'm going to go first with Chris mcdonna.
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Speaker 2: He is the director of Cold Case Foundation. Okay, don't care,
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Speaker 2: former homicide is of starting to care, getting warm, getting warm,
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Speaker 2: getting hotter. He has his own YouTube channel, the Interview
2:07
Speaker 2: Room where I found him. You can find him at
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Speaker 2: Colcays Foundation dot org or on the Interview Room Former
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Speaker 2: homicide detective three hundred ish homicide scenes under his belt.
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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, don't you love the degree of detail? Hey?
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Speaker 2: You know what send me? Sometimes you got to hear
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Speaker 2: the best stuff? Can you play that one more time? Listen?
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Speaker 3: Lay love and that is a lady You come on
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Speaker 3: dot dollar and he's some guy Dan into a red
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Speaker 3: light with her car with her two kids in it,
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Speaker 3: and he took he got out of call.
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Speaker 5: Here at Ohio.
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Speaker 3: Lay let her call it. I don't I need to
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Speaker 3: go along, get down here and a car.
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Speaker 5: But we need a.
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Speaker 2: Live body day.
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Speaker 4: What color?
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Speaker 3: Was it a burgundy? Maga protege?
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Speaker 5: We don't get him going pay him?
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Speaker 2: I got tap, I'll go all the detail, Chris McDonough.
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Speaker 2: She's quote real hysterical and you need to call them
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Speaker 2: and get him down here right now. And you hear
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Speaker 2: her feeding details in the background, Nancy, wasn't.
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Speaker 6: That the narrative that captivated America?
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Speaker 2: How can you be so calm?
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Speaker 6: You know, we just get used to it, unfortunately, right
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Speaker 6: it's when.
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Speaker 2: Somebody still get very angry, very angry. And I know
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Speaker 2: the end of this story. But the detail. Have you
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Speaker 2: ever seen perps and they will spin you a yarn
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Speaker 2: with such incredibly rich detail.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, and typically that detail, if it's that minutia and
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Speaker 6: that amount, is typically a sign of deception. And she
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Speaker 6: kicked it off right.
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Speaker 2: From that nine one one call from the beginning, the beginning,
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Speaker 2: running up to somebody's house talking about some guy jumps
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Speaker 2: out and you know this occurs in rural Union County,
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Speaker 2: South Carolina, near the John D. Long Lake. And you know,
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Speaker 2: hold on, Chris mcdona, where do you live, Chris?
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Speaker 6: Well, right now, I'm in Arizona. But I lived in
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Speaker 6: South Carolina right there.
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Speaker 2: In Mount Plus, you're very familiar with this area. Let
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Speaker 2: me go to another country boy like this country girl
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Speaker 2: right here, just got Morgan joining me, although he's gotten
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Speaker 2: pretty high falutin. Professor Forensis Jacksonville State University, author of
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Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet, still waiting on another book to
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Speaker 2: come out. Host of Bodybag's hit podcast this area, Chris
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Speaker 2: McDonagh has lived in South Carolina. I've gone to this
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Speaker 2: scene before. It's extremely rural, and I'm supposed to believe
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Speaker 2: a guy jumps out of what from behind a stop
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Speaker 2: sign and hijacks her car and takes off with the
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Speaker 2: children clearly in the back seat, two little boys.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, what are the odds that you're going to have
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Speaker 7: somebody that wants to do this kind of harm, whether
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Speaker 7: or not they had an awareness that, you know, these
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Speaker 7: poor little angels were buckled down in those back seats.
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Speaker 7: The fact that you would have this kind of aggressive
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Speaker 7: behavior in that location where she was specifically targeted as
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Speaker 7: an investigator, I'm certainly going to raise an eyebrow and
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Speaker 7: I'm going to take a long look at what she
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Speaker 7: has to say, because, as you and I both know, Nancy,
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Speaker 7: the line share, the line share of home sides that
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Speaker 7: we talked about have some kind of familial connection. That
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Speaker 7: means that you're around intimates those individuals that are most important.
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Speaker 7: So you're going to tell me that a random stranger
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Speaker 7: just came up and kidnapped these babies and run off
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Speaker 7: with them and left her standing on the side of
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Speaker 7: the road weeping.
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Speaker 2: Now, did you hear what he just did? Chris mcdona,
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Speaker 2: I am going along with every he says, but he's
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Speaker 2: a wily one. You got to really watching watch what
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott says. I agree with the whole rural aspect,
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Speaker 2: but did you hear him say if the unknown male
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Speaker 2: assailant noticed the children in the back seat. I'm looking
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Speaker 2: right now at a ninety four Mazda Protege. You can
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Speaker 2: see straight into the back seat from every angle of
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Speaker 2: the car. It's not like you know, you see those
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Speaker 2: black su these with tended windows, you can't see what's
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Speaker 2: going on in there. No, you can see exactly what's
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Speaker 2: going on in the back seat. And I'm looking at
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Speaker 2: a shot from the distance, I can see through the
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Speaker 2: back window, through the back dash, and through the other
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Speaker 2: side of the car. Whoever took the car could definitely
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Speaker 2: see that children were strapped into car seats in the
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Speaker 2: back seat. I mean, okay, you know what, Let's take
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Speaker 2: a listen to the nine one one call.
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Speaker 5: Listen Union one of us, one of five gohead. She
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Speaker 5: said it with a black male driving aigh born and
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Speaker 5: protege Affirman did.
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Speaker 8: One of fine.
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Speaker 5: They had two junloed one fine for one understood these
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Speaker 5: were small children. These are her children. And she jumped
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Speaker 5: out of the car and he took the car with
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Speaker 5: the children and he's headed toy Chest one hundred. The victors,
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Speaker 5: both quicktors cola family from when I gathered by the call,
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Speaker 5: they are not This is a stranger that had jumped
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Speaker 5: in the lady's car at a red light and she
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Speaker 5: jumped out.
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Speaker 2: I mean, really, Tara, and I'm leading up to what
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Speaker 2: Susan Smith is doing right now. And let me tell
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Speaker 2: you it involves six different men. That said Tara Malick
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Speaker 2: joining me out of Boise, Idaho co owner Smith and Malik,
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Speaker 2: former state and federal prosecutor. Tara once again blame the
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Speaker 2: black man. I remember when this happened. I was trying
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Speaker 2: a case and I looked over at my friend, my colleague,
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Speaker 2: who went on to be a judge, I might add,
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Speaker 2: and I went, Herman, have you seen the composite of
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Speaker 2: the guy that Susan Smith described? And he went, yeah,
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Speaker 2: I know what you're gonna say. Yeah, it looks just
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Speaker 2: like you. It looked just like Herman Sloan, my trial
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Speaker 2: partner who had come into court to bail me out
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Speaker 2: of some sling. I got in with the judge with
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Speaker 2: some appellate law, trying to suggest that I was right
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Speaker 2: and whatever I did. But he went, yeah, I've heard
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Speaker 2: I looked just like this Susan Smith purt and he did.
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Speaker 2: I mean, think about it, Tara, an innocent person could
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Speaker 2: have been arrested and probably tried and convicted based on
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Speaker 2: her fake composite and all of her lies. Like my Herman,
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Speaker 2: one of my best friends in the DA's office.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, the crime itself was atrocious and
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Speaker 4: horrific and terrible.
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Speaker 9: And then and then you know, to give this.
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Speaker 4: False profile of someone else who may have done it,
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Speaker 4: wasting resources, law enforcement resources, wasting everybody's time, but also,
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Speaker 4: like you said, putting somebody else potentially in jeopardy of
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Speaker 4: being picked up for it. And It's just mind boggling
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Speaker 4: that she would go.
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Speaker 2: Down this road. You know, I've dealt with a sod
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Speaker 2: defense many times. I namede that some other dude did it.
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Speaker 2: So d d here she goes some other dude did it,
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Speaker 2: and listen to her.
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Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 10: I would like to say to whoever has my children
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Speaker 10: that they please they please bring them home.
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Speaker 2: To us where they belong.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: After nearly thirty years behind bars, Susan Smith says she
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Speaker 2: should be released. In attendance. Much of it was by
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Speaker 2: remote her ex husband David Smith, along with prosecutors, all
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Speaker 2: wearing photos of the two little boys that were murdered
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Speaker 2: that day, her two sons, Michael and Alex, all of
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Speaker 2: them opposing parole. Do you remember her motive? Because I do.
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Speaker 2: She wanted to marry the rich guy in town's son
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Speaker 2: and he did not want a ready made family.
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Speaker 9: I e.
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Speaker 1: Her two boys, Michael and al so all done. She
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Speaker 1: killed them. Now let's get married.
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Speaker 2: You know, I will never forget when she gave that
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Speaker 2: tearful plea. Much like the tearful plea she gave the
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Speaker 2: last hours to the prole board for someone, some unknown
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Speaker 2: kidnapper to bring her boys home. Oh, she was so convincing,
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Speaker 2: just like she was in front of the pro board.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining says she's a renounced psychoanalyst at
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Speaker 2: Doctorbethany Marshall dot com. As a matter of fact, she
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Speaker 2: now has a recurring role in Paris and Love season two.
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Speaker 2: That said, Doctor Bethany, I don't get it. We've got
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Speaker 2: men sexting and texting and writing and sending money and
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Speaker 2: love letters to Susan Smith when she is a bald
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Speaker 2: faced liar that kills her children in the worst way,
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Speaker 2: letting her car, her Burgundy Protege go down a ramp
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Speaker 2: with the two little boys alive, strapped in the back seat.
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Speaker 2: Why I don't get it. Why would men want to
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Speaker 2: be with this woman, send her money and sex text
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Speaker 2: with her? But did you hear her lie? Do you
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Speaker 2: remember when that happened? Crying in the snotting and the
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Speaker 2: all that happening. And I want to say, who ever
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Speaker 2: has my children, they please please bring them home to
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Speaker 2: us where they belong, knowing full well they drowned strapped
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Speaker 2: in their car seats.
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Speaker 9: Well show how immature she is at the most basic level,
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Speaker 9: that she wants okaya.
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Speaker 2: The most you can say, she's immature. She murdered two
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Speaker 2: little boys.
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Speaker 9: We know she's a social caup, But what beyond the
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Speaker 9: fact that she's a sociopath, what additional factors are there
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Speaker 9: that would lead to this? And one is an over
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Speaker 9: attachment to men. She loves that feeling of falling in love,
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Speaker 9: the feeling you have the first thing, are.
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Speaker 2: You linking this to double murder? Why this woman did
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Speaker 2: not get the death penalty, I do not know. And
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Speaker 2: now there's six guys trying to have sex with are
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Speaker 2: really ill.
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Speaker 9: Butally it's really a pathological attachment to men, like being in.
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Speaker 2: A barrel with with a rattlesnake.
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Speaker 1: Who was that?
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Speaker 9: Well, apparently they do. And you know, women who couldn't
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Speaker 9: f fantasize who killed their children often have some really
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Speaker 9: First of all, they were usually what we call cluster
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Speaker 9: be Then I.
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Speaker 2: Really have some sexy measure going on because I'm totally
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Speaker 2: cutting your mind.
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Speaker 9: Okay, So their cluster b which means they have three
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Speaker 9: different disorders sociopathy, bipolar, and borderline. Often they have a
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Speaker 9: very pathological attachment to men. Either they kill the children
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Speaker 9: to get back at the love object. Like I'm going
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Speaker 9: to kill our children because I'm mad at you. It's
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Speaker 9: hard to describe this without really sounding like it's trite,
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Speaker 9: but it's These are the underpinnings of what these women do.
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Speaker 9: So it's either I'm going to kill the children to
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Speaker 9: get back at you, or I'm going to kill the
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Speaker 9: children if I found a new guy and I don't
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Speaker 9: want the children to be in the way.
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Speaker 2: Interesting that you said that. Interesting, But I also want
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Speaker 2: you to hear the level of detail that she waves
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Speaker 2: into her big fat lie about her two murdered little boys.
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Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. I'm more excruciating death than being
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Speaker 2: strapped in a car, can't get out, The car goes
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Speaker 2: underwater a muddy leg and you're in the car screaming
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Speaker 2: for mommy as that car fills up with water till
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Speaker 2: you drown. Listen to our cut four Crime online.
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Speaker 8: On the night of October twenty fifth, Susan Smith knocks
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Speaker 8: on the door of a house near John D.
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Speaker 6: Long Lake.
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Speaker 8: She's hysterical when the man answers the door and tells
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Speaker 8: him to call the police. A black man just carjacked
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Speaker 8: her at a red light. He had a gun, and
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Speaker 8: she jumped out of the car, but her two boys,
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Speaker 8: three year old Michael and fourteen month old Alex, are
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Speaker 8: still in the car. Police begins searching immediately, and the
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Speaker 8: nation's media converges on Union, South Carolina for eight days.
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Speaker 8: Susan Smith tells an ever changing story of the carjacking,
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Speaker 8: and friends get irritated when she keeps asking if Tom
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Speaker 8: Finley has reached out to see her. Friends wonder why
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Speaker 8: she would care about Findley when her two children are missing.
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Speaker 8: On day nine of intense media pressure, Susan Smith meets
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Speaker 8: with Union County Sheriff Howard Wells, and Wells meets with
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Speaker 8: the press.
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Speaker 2: Okay, note to self, who is Tom Finley? But there's more.
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Speaker 2: There's more. Listen.
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Speaker 8: Susan Smith has carried the lie as far as she can.
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Speaker 8: When she finally admits what she's done, there never was
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Speaker 8: a black man with a gun that stole her car
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Speaker 8: with their kids in the back. She now says she
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Speaker 8: went out for a drive with her sons buckled into
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Speaker 8: their car seats in the back. Feeling desperate, alone and suicidal.
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Speaker 8: She now says she drove to John D. Long Lake
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Speaker 8: and planned to roll the car into the lake. Smith
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Speaker 8: puts the car in neutral, but instead of going into
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Speaker 8: the lake with the car and the boys, she jumps
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Speaker 8: out and watches the car sink. Based on her directions
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Speaker 8: for where the car should be, scuba divers locate the
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Speaker 8: vehicle with the boys in the back still buckled into
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Speaker 8: their seats.
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Speaker 2: Just let that so kN for just one moment, claiming,
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Speaker 2: you know, why is it, Chris mcdona, that all these
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Speaker 2: people that want to commit suicide end up killing their
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Speaker 2: children or their family or somebody else he they miraculously live.
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Speaker 6: I mean, just so horrific thought in of itself, right, Nancy,
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Speaker 6: in the night, I actually drove the entire route that
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Speaker 6: Susan Smith took that day. There were ample opportunities for
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Speaker 6: her to change her mind and turn around.
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Speaker 8: I mean there were.
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Speaker 6: Stop signs, there were you know, through residential neighborhoods. And
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Speaker 6: to think that she was saying to the public, you know,
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Speaker 6: or to the police when she initially confessed, well, you know,
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Speaker 6: I thought about committing suicide, but I couldn't do it,
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Speaker 6: et cetera. So I jumped out. You know, when you
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Speaker 6: go to that boat ramp where these poor little babies
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Speaker 6: are strapped in those back seats, and as that car
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Speaker 6: is going down that ramp. I would submit to you.
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Speaker 6: She had gotten out of that car almost immediately and
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Speaker 6: let that car go to your point a couple of
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Speaker 6: minutes ago. And as that water started to fill that vehicle,
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Speaker 6: can you imagine the horror that these children were experiencing
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Speaker 6: and the mother standing there as that vehicle started to sink.
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Speaker 6: It took about six I think between six to fifteen
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Speaker 6: seconds for that vehicle to hit the water and within
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Speaker 6: a minute it was submerged.
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Speaker 9: Yaanthea, It just shows how cold blooded she is. She
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Speaker 9: could stand on the shore look at the car submerged
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Speaker 9: and knowing that her babies were drowning. It really gives
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Speaker 9: you insight into how detached and just cold blooded she is.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, who is this woman? Take a listen hour cut
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Speaker 2: three from crime online dot Com.
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Speaker 8: After high school, she began dating David Smith. Soon there's
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Speaker 8: a baby on the way and the pair decided to
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Speaker 8: get married. Ultimately, they have two boys, Michael Daniel and
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Speaker 8: Alexander Tyler, but the children don't keep the marriage together.
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Speaker 8: The Smith separate several times. During one of these separations,
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Speaker 8: Susan Smith begins dating Tom Finley, the single son of
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Speaker 8: a wealthy mill owner.
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Speaker 2: Aha, so that is who Tom Finley is, Okay, Tara Mallick,
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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer joining us from our own law firm,
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Speaker 2: Smith and Mallet. Would that be motive to be with
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Speaker 2: this rich guy?
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Speaker 5: Yeah?
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Speaker 4: I think you know, the painted in different ways during
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Speaker 4: the trial itself, and there was some conflicting testimony. One
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Speaker 4: of the theories of the case that was put on
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Speaker 4: and suspected was that she wanted to be with Thomas Finley.
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Speaker 4: Finley didn't like the fact that, you know, she had
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Speaker 4: two kids, and in a way or in an attempt
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Speaker 4: to get back together with Finley, who she was having
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Speaker 4: an affair with, you know, she drowned her two boys.
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Speaker 4: The other testimony that was presented during the trial was that,
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Speaker 4: you know, she was someone who was an abused child,
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Speaker 4: she had had a secret affair with her stepfather, she
19:43
Speaker 4: was frightened of her husband, you know, And so I
19:47
Speaker 4: think those details this jury ended up grappling with. And
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Speaker 4: it's the case that should have been a death penalty case,
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Speaker 4: but unfortunately not.
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Speaker 2: Here killer mom Susan Smith denied parole after drowning her
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Speaker 2: two little boys. Her two toat sons murdered locked in
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Speaker 2: to their car seat strapped in as she gets out
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Speaker 2: and pushes the car into the water, then watches it submerge,
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Speaker 2: murdering her two taut boys. She was put behind bars
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Speaker 2: for drowning the boys, and in the last hours a
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Speaker 2: board unanimously votes to deny her parole. After she appears
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Speaker 2: in a jail house court feed, she was emotional and crying.
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Speaker 2: She says, quote, I know what I did was horrible.
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Speaker 2: I'm sorry that I put them through that. I wish
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Speaker 2: I could take that back, I really do. I was
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Speaker 2: just scared, scared of what I've been scared. But I
20:49
Speaker 2: didn't murder my children because I was afraid. Has she
20:53
Speaker 2: ever heard the word div rcee hits the country song,
20:57
Speaker 2: listen to it. Susan Smith, That's all you had to do.
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Speaker 1: You could have been free.
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Speaker 2: You could have given your husband custody of the children.
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Speaker 2: He would love to have had them. But no, you
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Speaker 2: chose to murder them now. Susan Smith's lawyer, Tommy Thomas,
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Speaker 2: told the barrel Board that Susan Smith had serious mental
21:19
Speaker 2: health issues and postpartum depression, and as an example, he said,
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Speaker 2: I could see the pain on her face. I think
21:27
Speaker 2: she's truly remorseful for what happened. Okay, good she should be,
21:33
Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean she should walk free. I remember
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Speaker 2: the case like it was yesterday, isn't it true? Dave
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Speaker 2: Mack joining us from crime online dot Com that Finley
21:46
Speaker 2: broke it off with her claiming he did not want
21:50
Speaker 2: an instant family.
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Speaker 8: He did, and Nancy, more to the point, are more
21:54
Speaker 8: than just saying I don't want kids. There were other
21:57
Speaker 8: things he stated in there about her and their relationship.
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Speaker 8: He also cited their different upbringings and that that was
22:05
Speaker 8: a big stumbling block. Another one the way Susan Smith
22:09
Speaker 8: acted and flirted with other men. He didn't like that,
22:13
Speaker 8: so he mentioned three basic things that he really didn't
22:16
Speaker 8: want an instant family. But these other two things were
22:18
Speaker 8: mentioned as well, and one was her own behavior of
22:22
Speaker 8: hitting on other men. But she dismisses that in her
22:25
Speaker 8: thought process, blames it all on the kids and thinks
22:27
Speaker 8: she's been get him back if she just gets rid
22:29
Speaker 8: of that. She doesn't address the fact that she hits
22:32
Speaker 8: on men all the time.
22:33
Speaker 2: So let me understand something, Dave Matt. She met Finley
22:38
Speaker 2: the son of the rich guy, when she and her
22:43
Speaker 2: husband were what divorce separated?
22:45
Speaker 8: What separated? They actually when they were married, they had
22:49
Speaker 8: several full on separations where they were not living together,
22:53
Speaker 8: were dating other people, and yet they would then get
22:57
Speaker 8: back together and it was on and off or I
23:00
Speaker 8: think I mean after they had the last time. He
23:03
Speaker 8: was fourteen months old while this happened, so it was
23:05
Speaker 8: an ongoing process in their relationship that breaking out getting
23:08
Speaker 8: back together.
23:09
Speaker 2: Let me get back to Dodgor Bethony Marshall, what do
23:11
Speaker 2: you make of this? It was always presented that family
23:18
Speaker 2: broke up with her because he didn't want an instant family,
23:21
Speaker 2: But according to the letter he sent her before she
23:24
Speaker 2: murdered her to little boys, it was a lot more
23:27
Speaker 2: than that.
23:29
Speaker 9: He's probably minimizing it because now he has the scrutiny
23:32
Speaker 9: of the country and the court and saying, well, I
23:34
Speaker 9: didn't really want her anyway. But there's partially, I think
23:37
Speaker 9: a half truth in that maybe he wasn't ready for
23:40
Speaker 9: a family and children and he was contemplating that. And
23:43
Speaker 9: I think Susan Smith was the kind of woman who
23:46
Speaker 9: would just ignore the fact that he didn't want to
23:48
Speaker 9: be with her. She would think, oh, you know, I'll
23:50
Speaker 9: buy any dress, Oh I'll go shopping. Oh, I'll buy
23:53
Speaker 9: some listics, I'll wear a low cut dress. Oh I'll
23:55
Speaker 9: just kill my children. I mean just She would just
23:58
Speaker 9: throw everything at it to get him back. So I
24:01
Speaker 9: think if he was ambivalent about her, that may have
24:04
Speaker 9: even incentivized her to kill her children.
24:07
Speaker 2: Okay, I obviously need to reword my question. There were
24:12
Speaker 2: other behaviors he found disturbing which led to his decision
24:17
Speaker 2: to break it off with her. Not only that he
24:20
Speaker 2: did not want an instant family, but he did not
24:23
Speaker 2: like the way she acted promiscuously with other guys. He
24:28
Speaker 2: didn't want that.
24:29
Speaker 9: I think some women relate primarily to men because they
24:33
Speaker 9: feel they can seduce them, and I think this was
24:36
Speaker 9: probably her mo that the minute she met a man,
24:38
Speaker 9: she would be furcacious, she would be overly sexualized, she
24:42
Speaker 9: would try to attract them. She probably did that all
24:46
Speaker 9: the time because this is a way of feeling important,
24:49
Speaker 9: like she's a real person in the real world, and
24:53
Speaker 9: she doesn't really have to relate to the men. If
24:55
Speaker 9: it's sexual in an instant then they never become real
24:59
Speaker 9: pe people to her. They're all just objects love objects
25:03
Speaker 9: who flatter her.
25:04
Speaker 8: Listen, now are cut for Susan Smith is planning a
25:06
Speaker 8: future with the best catch in the county when she
25:08
Speaker 8: gets a Dear John letter from Dear Tom. He explains
25:12
Speaker 8: he doesn't think the relationship will work because of the
25:15
Speaker 8: difference in their upbringing, the way she acts towards other men,
25:18
Speaker 8: and he doesn't want an instant family. He doesn't want
25:21
Speaker 8: children right now. Susan dismisses her upbringing or her behavior
25:25
Speaker 8: towards other men as possible deal breakers in the relationship,
25:28
Speaker 8: and the only thing she sees is Tom Finley doesn't
25:31
Speaker 8: want children.
25:32
Speaker 2: So she ignores everything except the children part of the complaint,
25:37
Speaker 2: and then suddenly, poof, they're gone. In the last days,
25:41
Speaker 2: Susan Smith back in the news, apparently having a romantic
25:48
Speaker 2: relationship with at least six men behind bars.
25:53
Speaker 1: Okay, what does that mean?
25:55
Speaker 2: Well, there are precursors to today's report of Susan smith
26:00
Speaker 2: Us relationships with six guys. What precursors will listener ourcut ten.
26:07
Speaker 8: A tabloid news report claiming Susan Smith had been beaten
26:10
Speaker 8: by guards at a prison in South Carolina gave birth
26:13
Speaker 8: to an investigation into the matter. While there was no
26:15
Speaker 8: proof she had been beaten, Smith told prison investigators that
26:19
Speaker 8: she had four sexual encounters Lieutenant Houston Cagle, a supervisor
26:22
Speaker 8: at South Carolina's Women's Correctional Institution WCI, where she's confined.
26:28
Speaker 8: Cagil admitted having sex with Smith and another prisoner and
26:31
Speaker 8: was charged with the offense in August of two thousand.
26:34
Speaker 8: Smith was twenty eight at the time and was disciplined
26:36
Speaker 8: for having sex with the guard, while fifty year old
26:39
Speaker 8: Kagel pleaded guilty and spent three months in jail. In
26:42
Speaker 8: two thousand and one, a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, also
26:45
Speaker 8: pleaded guilty to having sex with Smith and was sentenced
26:48
Speaker 8: to five years probation. It was then discovered that Susan
26:51
Speaker 8: Smith engaged in sexual relations with Cagel after she tested
26:55
Speaker 8: positive for an STD.
26:57
Speaker 2: Okay, so she claims I was beaten and that spawns
27:02
Speaker 2: an investigation, but it turns out she wasn't beaten. She
27:06
Speaker 2: was sleeping with various prison guards. Just goott Morgan, remind
27:09
Speaker 2: me what is it like to drown? You're the death investigator,
27:13
Speaker 2: one of the.
27:13
Speaker 7: Most horrible desks that you can even begin to think about.
27:20
Speaker 7: And the fact is, the thing that's always bothered me
27:23
Speaker 7: about this case, Nancy is that with Alex and mikeel On.
27:27
Speaker 7: I think it's really important that I say their names
27:29
Speaker 7: at this moment in time, because they are the victims.
27:32
Speaker 7: When they were strapped in those little seats in the
27:35
Speaker 7: back of that Mazda and that tight, little confined place
27:39
Speaker 7: where maybe their mother had taken them to McDonald's before,
27:41
Speaker 7: had taken them all over town, and suddenly they're at
27:44
Speaker 7: the edge of a boat ramp and they're thinking, you know,
27:46
Speaker 7: what's mama doing now? You know, she gets out of
27:49
Speaker 7: the car and as that car is left and neutral
27:53
Speaker 7: and goes down that boat ramp and begins to slowly
27:56
Speaker 7: sink beneath those dark waters out there. You know, they
27:59
Speaker 7: found that about one hundred and twenty feet off of
28:02
Speaker 7: the shore. The dive team had looked for it for
28:06
Speaker 7: some period of time. Car was filled with water. Those
28:10
Speaker 7: kids were still strapped in that back seat, and our
28:12
Speaker 7: reaction as humans, if we're trying to catch our breath,
28:16
Speaker 7: is to fight. And just imagine this, Nancy, they're strapped.
28:20
Speaker 7: We've all got babies in our families that we've taken
28:22
Speaker 7: care of. We strapped them in car seats, and you
28:26
Speaker 7: ever seen a child struggle to get out of the
28:28
Speaker 7: car seat. They're tired of being in it. Well, imagine that,
28:31
Speaker 7: only water's creeping up on you. Water's getting into your nose,
28:35
Speaker 7: your little mouth, your eyes, You're running out of oxygen.
28:39
Speaker 7: Your brain is screaming. It's on fire because there's no oxygen.
28:44
Speaker 7: You can't catch your breath, and you have no idea.
28:48
Speaker 7: It's panic that's setting in and it would not have been.
28:52
Speaker 7: I just wanted to spell any kind of fantasy somebody
28:56
Speaker 7: might be having right now that this was a sudden
28:58
Speaker 7: and a quick death.
28:59
Speaker 10: It was.
29:00
Speaker 7: It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies
29:05
Speaker 7: went through at that moment, Tom Nancy, And I'm with you.
29:09
Speaker 7: I'm still to this day just befuddled why she's not
29:14
Speaker 7: sitting on death row. And you know, forever and ever
29:18
Speaker 7: she's getting going with her life. No, isn't she And
29:20
Speaker 7: those babies died, died at this monster's hands out there
29:25
Speaker 7: out there in.
29:25
Speaker 2: That lake, knowing full well what she did, immediately running
29:29
Speaker 2: to a nearby home, claiming that an unknown male had
29:34
Speaker 2: jumped into her car. And I guess the only red
29:36
Speaker 2: light in the county. And I feel okay saying that
29:39
Speaker 2: because where I grew up. We didn't even have a
29:41
Speaker 2: red light, so out of the entire county, an unknown
29:47
Speaker 2: assilant jumps into her car at the one red light,
29:50
Speaker 2: takes her car and murders her children. Okay, this is
29:55
Speaker 2: the woman these guys want to be with. Speaking of them,
30:00
Speaker 2: there is a matter of Captain Alfred Rowe. Now we
30:04
Speaker 2: heard about Cagele Cagile, a supervisor at South Carolina Women's
30:09
Speaker 2: ci Correctional Institute, and what happened with him. We know
30:15
Speaker 2: that he was ultimately identified because Susan Smith turned up
30:21
Speaker 2: with an std behind bars. But there's more. Take a
30:25
Speaker 2: listen to our cut eleven. Does she not realize there
30:28
Speaker 2: are consequences to actions.
30:30
Speaker 8: Captain Alfred Smith was one of the guards who lost
30:33
Speaker 8: their careers after having sex with Susan Smith behind bars.
30:36
Speaker 8: Rose says Smith is a master manipulator, telling Inside Edition
30:39
Speaker 8: that Smith approached him at three in the morning, telling
30:42
Speaker 8: him she thought he was the nicest officer at the
30:44
Speaker 8: prison and that she was lonely. The former guard says
30:47
Speaker 8: things just escalated from there. Roe claims he only had
30:50
Speaker 8: sex with Smith one time, but he cost him everything.
30:54
Speaker 8: He was fired from the job, lost his pension, and
30:56
Speaker 8: after pleading guilty to having sex with Smith. He was
30:59
Speaker 8: sentenced to five years probation.
31:01
Speaker 2: Take a Lisnower Cut twelve.
31:02
Speaker 8: Sex isn't the only issue Susan Smith has faced in prison.
31:05
Speaker 8: Twice in twenty ten and once in twenty fifteen, Susan
31:08
Speaker 8: Smith was disciplined on drug charges, losing privileges for more
31:12
Speaker 8: than a year. Susan Smith's drug use escalated when she
31:15
Speaker 8: switched prisons from Camille Graham Correctional Center in Columbia, South Carolina,
31:19
Speaker 8: to Leath Correctional Institution in Greenwood, South Carolina. Former prison
31:23
Speaker 8: guard Alfred Rowe, who pleaded guilty to having sex with
31:25
Speaker 8: Smith at the prison, told the TV show Sellmate Secrets
31:28
Speaker 8: when Smith was moved from one prison to another, that
31:31
Speaker 8: it was at that point where quote she could no
31:33
Speaker 8: longer get the mail attention that she used as a
31:36
Speaker 8: drug unquote, and instead turned to pilled which led.
31:39
Speaker 2: To a series of drug infractions.
31:47
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
31:53
Speaker 2: In the last hours, a parole board shuts down murder
31:56
Speaker 2: mom Susan Smith there to defend his two her sons,
32:00
Speaker 2: David Smith, Susan Smith's ex He says, and I quote,
32:05
Speaker 2: I'm here to advocate on Michael and Alex's behalf and
32:08
Speaker 2: as their father, God gives us free choice. She made
32:14
Speaker 2: free choice that night to end their life. This wasn't
32:19
Speaker 2: a tragic mistake. She purposely meant to end their lives.
32:25
Speaker 2: I'm asking that you please deny her parole today. He
32:31
Speaker 2: was emotional, holding back tears, his face contorted in pain.
32:40
Speaker 2: Susan Smith's ex husband, the father of Michael and Alex,
32:43
Speaker 2: David Smith, attended the parole board along with his new
32:48
Speaker 2: wife and daughter, and Tommy Pope, the prosecutor on the case. Pope,
32:56
Speaker 2: the former prosecutor, said quote, I believe the jury intended
32:59
Speaker 2: for her to for her to serve a full life sentence.
33:03
Speaker 2: They wanted her to spend her life and remorse from
33:06
Speaker 2: Michael and Alex and.
33:08
Speaker 1: What she had done.
33:10
Speaker 2: And she has spent time focusing on herself, having sex
33:16
Speaker 2: with prison guards and more. So, wait a minute, while
33:20
Speaker 2: she was improving herself and thinking about Michael Alex, instead
33:24
Speaker 2: she was having sex affairs with prison guards and more.
33:28
Speaker 2: The narrative, her story that she projects is so different
33:33
Speaker 2: from reality life has not passed her by. She committed
33:38
Speaker 2: double murder, that that's what happened it's not anyone's fault
33:44
Speaker 2: but her own. Absolutely.
33:46
Speaker 4: I mean, and if life has passed her by, how
33:50
Speaker 4: does she characterize what she did to her son? She
33:54
Speaker 4: took their life away, they.
33:56
Speaker 2: Didn't even have the opportunity to live a life.
33:58
Speaker 4: I mean, these were really young kids here. And I
34:02
Speaker 4: think you know, the pattern of behavior that she's exhibited,
34:07
Speaker 4: like the infractions that she's picked up while she's been
34:09
Speaker 4: in prison, I mean, all of this doesn't tend to
34:12
Speaker 4: show that this is someone who has been rehabilitated while
34:15
Speaker 4: in prison. I mean, she's still showing those signs of
34:18
Speaker 4: manipulation that you know she engaged in before she was
34:24
Speaker 4: convicted and sentence, you know, leading on the nation for
34:28
Speaker 4: nine days, telling lies about what actually happened, telling lies
34:31
Speaker 4: and swinging fingers of people that didn't exist. So this
34:34
Speaker 4: is a really deeply disturbed individual.
34:37
Speaker 2: Chris mc dunna with me, a former homicide detective and
34:41
Speaker 2: host of YouTube channel The Interview Room who has investigated
34:44
Speaker 2: at least three hundred homicides. You know, defendants can be very,
34:50
Speaker 2: very charming. Think about Scott Paterson or doctor Martin McNeil,
34:56
Speaker 2: who killed his wife, a beauty queen. According to Susan
35:01
Speaker 2: Smith's family. They say, quote she seems to be happy,
35:06
Speaker 2: and that she quote always had a messy love life.
35:11
Speaker 2: She's creating a fictional version of her life and people
35:18
Speaker 2: are buying it. These guys, these lonely hearts, are buying
35:23
Speaker 2: it and attempting to have let me just say, romantic
35:27
Speaker 2: interludes with her. Chris McDonough, have you ever met a
35:32
Speaker 2: charming murder defendant? Because I have absolutely Nancy.
35:36
Speaker 6: And what's interesting about her is we have to always
35:40
Speaker 6: remember that all behavior has a purpose, and that past
35:45
Speaker 6: behavior is usually an indication of future behavior. So she
35:50
Speaker 6: has always, throughout her entire case and through her life here,
35:55
Speaker 6: while in prison and even before prison, she always sometimes
35:59
Speaker 6: projected the words of the day into her vocabulary. And
36:05
Speaker 6: if we listen real carefully to the minutia of what
36:09
Speaker 6: she said in the very beginning, whoever they are, please
36:14
Speaker 6: bring them home. E. She's talking about two suspects, but
36:19
Speaker 6: she talks about one in terms of a description. And
36:23
Speaker 6: now if we fast forward that to today, we have
36:27
Speaker 6: six individuals men who quite frankly, I can't figure that
36:32
Speaker 6: piece of a puzzle out. You know, that's for the
36:35
Speaker 6: doctors to tell us what that's all about. But she
36:39
Speaker 6: is utilizing that behavior still to this day by talking
36:45
Speaker 6: about money, by talking about sexual TIFFs there between the
36:51
Speaker 6: two of them, and she hasn't lost a thought from
36:56
Speaker 6: miss Leopard.
36:57
Speaker 2: You know, Joscott Morgan, maybe we just know too much
37:00
Speaker 2: when it comes to murder, because when I think of
37:03
Speaker 2: Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped strapped in
37:08
Speaker 2: to a car as it's going down a ramp and
37:12
Speaker 2: going underwater and seeing the water coming up on either
37:16
Speaker 2: side and starting to pour in through the windshiels, It
37:20
Speaker 2: comes up around you and you can't get out. I mean,
37:24
Speaker 2: the children in this case were three and fourteen months.
37:28
Speaker 7: They never had stood a chance within this environment. And
37:33
Speaker 7: here's another thing that people might not be aware of.
37:38
Speaker 7: After that car dip beneath the surface of that water,
37:44
Speaker 7: one other element we have to consider. And again I
37:48
Speaker 7: go back to the idea that we all have had babies,
37:50
Speaker 7: you know, parents, that sort of thing. I've got kids
37:53
Speaker 7: and grandkids whom I love dearly. And what is that
37:57
Speaker 7: the kids are afraid of? Late at night it's darkness,
38:00
Speaker 7: and it would you would not have been able to
38:03
Speaker 7: have seen your hand in front of your face, so
38:05
Speaker 7: Not only are they absent a loving mother who normally
38:10
Speaker 7: you would hope would take care of them, they're they're disoriented,
38:14
Speaker 7: they're running out of breath, and it's dark, Nancy, it's
38:17
Speaker 7: cold and it's dark down there. And that's that goes
38:21
Speaker 7: to the level of horror that they're that they're you know, experiencing.
38:26
Speaker 2: Bottom line, Susan Smith, no parole.
38:30
Speaker 1: But here's the kicker.
38:31
Speaker 2: Even though she's just been tonight parole, she's back up
38:35
Speaker 2: for parole in just two years. We wait as justice
38:41
Speaker 2: unfolds and ps Susan Smith, I hope you're listening, devil,
38:48
Speaker 2: goodbye friend.
38:49
Speaker 10: The end