Latest / Quick Wins for ADHD Moms - Short Episodes, Real Solutions for Burnout and Overwhelm / Why Is My Kid So Sensitive to Sounds, Textures, and Smells? ADHD and Sensory Overload Explained with Dr. Katrina Ostmeyer

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Why Is My Kid So Sensitive to Sounds, Textures, and Smells? ADHD and Sensory Overload Explained with Dr. Katrina Ostmeyer · Quick Wins for ADHD Moms - Short Episodes, Real Solutions for Burnout and Overwhelm

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is Quick Wins for ADHD moms.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Jessica Lynn Lewis, and welcome to the show.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Dr.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina Ostmeier.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's a licensed psychologist and licensed behavior analyst, the CEO and founder of Beyond the Individual, and an associate professor of the practice at the University of Kansas.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She also works directly with families through the University of Kansas Child and Family Services Clinic.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina is the parent of two neurodivergent children, and she developed a continuum of care model that rejects the one size fits all frameworks in favor of a tailored, evidence-based strategies that actually stick in everyday chaos.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're really going to enjoy today's episode.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Here is Katrina.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina, well, we're so excited to have Katrina, Dr.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina Ostmeier on the show today.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina, thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we always start off the show with a quick win.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So what is today's quick win?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: My uh daughter has been getting to school with a buffer on the bus uh for every morning for the last two weeks.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a huge win for our household.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's a one-minute buffer, like yes, you know, if we're not if we're not um rushed and like throwing our backpack on our back as the bus is pulling up, we are doing great.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much anxiety just in that moment.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because like if they don't get on the bus, how am I gonna get them to school?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a meeting, I've got right.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would not be here this morning, actually, if she didn't get on the bus.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I was very glad she was ready to go.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell me about like behind that quick win.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: How did you how are you giving how are you getting that buffer time?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to say that um this system works all the time, but um we do have a system, we have lots of reinforcement.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: We use a token economy to help encourage some of those things that uh cause time to move slower.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So fighting over undergarments and they're itchy.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um we got some new toothpaste that changes color when we brush our teeth, so made that a little bit easier and a stitch hairbrush.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So all of those things helped just to get us to the end of the school year to add a little extra reinforcement to our routine.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's almost the end of the school year, right?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like we're almost there, and you almost have to add just a little like the toothpaste, like adding just a little bit of something different to keep it fresh, you know?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she did tell me while we were waiting for the bus that she just really thought that maybe we could just stay home for the last two and a half weeks of school.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're not doing that much anyways, and I had to disagree, but we got on the bus.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was fine.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she'll come home and have a great day, right?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: She will, yes.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would love to hear your story.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have neurodivergent divergent children, you're a psychologist.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just tell me a little bit about your background and how you ended up where you are.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I um honestly kind of like often happens in a lot of places in my life.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I fell into my career.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I had no plans of doing a behavioral, being a behavioral therapist and um doing psychology until I got into college.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I got a job working as a teaching parent at 19 years old and started working with kids with autism and found that I loved those things and that maybe that my idea of what psychology was was actually a little bit different and uh did more of a behavior analytic pathway.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ended up going to grad school in psychology just so I would have a little bit more flexibility with my degree versus going into behavior analysis.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um really, I think part of the reason I found that I loved working with all of these individuals is when I was younger, you know, we didn't talk about diagnoses, we didn't diagnose things or see uh neurodivergence in the same way that we do now.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um come to realize, you know, as I've learned more, I was like, oh wow, it's all around me.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think it's part of the reason I just kind of naturally was drawn to it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when you see a red jeep, you know, like you're buying a red jeep and then all of a sudden you see them everywhere, right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's that same thing as like you you see an ADHD child and you learn about and you're like, oh my gosh, they're everywhere.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you just like they're just they're full of energy and they're brilliant and beautiful, and you just notice that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, yes, keep going.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I got into graduate school and um I actually had my first child in graduate school, which was it was planned.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: My my husband and I were married and and we wanted a baby, and in hindsight, I don't know if that was one of the best choices I ever made.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Except for at least.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, here we are.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: My oldest is uh wonderful.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh as I was getting towards the end of my uh graduate degree, going out on internship, I started to recognize some of those signs of neurodivergence in my own son, just a lot of the sensory issues, big meltdowns, lots of um anxiety or discomfort, and really started to see um what maybe the field does well and what it doesn't as a parent.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh just kind of fell into moving into um shaping my career more around these kids who we have all these therapies and things that tend to work well, but maybe need a little bit more individual visualization to make them work really well.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you noticed a gap between here's what generally we do, and then the personalization to each child.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And as you are, I'm sure, well aware, each kid with any kind of neurodivergence is so different.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the things that we associate with uh diagnoses, such as ADHD, are not even in the diagnostic criteria, but they're occurring in the large majority of cases.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So things like emotion dysregulation or sensory uh challenges.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those are more common than not with an ADHD diagnosis, but not even part of the criteria for diagnosing the disorder.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we're starting to see that more and more for sure.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, let's dive into that, you know, the sensory overload piece of all of this.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you approach it when someone, you know, at what point does a mom come to you and just say, I don't know what to do?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is a a lot of times, honestly.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually have been there with the sensory piece specifically, um, with with my own uh children, especially my youngest, um, she would have such extreme sensory overwhelm.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So clothing, food textures, sound, and and still does.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a really common issue that comes uh up with children.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I look at it differently now because of my own experience as a parent.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there are a few different things that we can do.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one is I preface this with I'm not a medication provider, so I don't give the best uh medication advice.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are great people who do this.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And for me as a parent, one of the things I talk with families about first is have you thought about medication?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing it's also going to be a road uh to find the right one.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a journey, absolutely.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've been all over that journey.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And for my children, for example, my son uh does really well with stimulant medications and it really helped with the sensory issues he had.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter, we tried a stimulant medication.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was so much worse.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: We were naked, crying under a soft blanket the first time we tried the stimulant medications.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: We couldn't even get through a full week of a trial.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: For her, we found more anxiety-based medications and non-stimulant ADHD medications were a lot more helpful for helping manage some of those symptoms.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So our behavioral therapies could be more effective.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um looking at behavioral therapies, there's a couple different things that we're gonna look at.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to look at both accommodation and management.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is really important, especially for kids, because their little uh neurodevelopmental systems are still growing, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not mature, and some of these concerns are gonna get better just with maturation and age.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's absolutely.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that in my own kids.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: As we figure this out, the maturity definitely, but it takes so much time, and when you're in the middle of it, you don't want someone to say, well, just wait five years and it'll be better.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's good to keep it in mind, but you need to you need to have strategies now, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there that's where the accommodation and learning some more of these skills are really helpful.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't accommodate everything.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Our worlds are full of stimuli and sensory experiences, and I can't make a classroom perfectly quiet.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can't make your peer next to you chew more quietly.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't make I can buy soft under garments, but I can't make them non-existent for you.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or I guess I could, but we we prefer not to on our house.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um, with the accommodation, we look at things like can we take breaks?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can we have special settings that uh limit some of that sensory stimuli?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So for both my kids, there you have 504s that allow for them to leave the classroom and take breaks when they need to.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then also, what are ways that I can keep your system with accommodation a little less stressed?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we see things like stress, anxiety, poor sleep, uh, diet can all put the system under stress.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we can look at ways that by you know making sure you're getting calories throughout the day so your body is well nourished can help reduce some of the stress.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Making sure you get enough water, good sleep, all of those things can help.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also reducing anxiety.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So for my kids, that might be we're going to go manage our anxiety a little bit more directly.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you the sensory concerns that are associated with your profile are less intense, or you can feel like you have a better management of them.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you start with anxiety.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how can you talk to a kid about, okay, now what are you anxious about?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you discover what those things were?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for my, I can talk about for my own children and other kids that I work with.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I work with other kids, I it depends on their level of insight.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have some kids who are incredibly insightful, very verbal, and they're like, Yeah, here's all the things bothering me.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you here's the list.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: When I can work directly with a kid, I'm going to work directly with them and ask, you know, tell me everything that's going on.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I also have kids that are clearly anxious who say, I'm not anxious at all.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: What is this anxiety you speak of?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for those kids, I may rely more on natural supports.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, hey, let's talk about some behaviors that may be associated with anxiety or overwhelm or discomfort.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we look at those situations and see, let's say it's going, getting ready for school.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we say, what are the things about getting ready for school that are stressful?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's it's the time crunch, and they have, you know, I'm I'm always running a little bit late.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have time blindness, so that causes me anxiety.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: It can also be maybe it's peer issues.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I notice that my kid is always more likely to have worries or want to talk to me more at the end of the school day when there's something that's going on with peers.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so we rely on parents to see what are those situations.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a lot of different ways we can manage it, either working directly with kids and learning strategies to think about situations differently, and also how to approach those things differently.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So reason for anxiety actually leaning in makes anxiety go down over time.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: It feels really bad in the moment to lean in, but the more you lean in, the less anxious you feel, actually, over time.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Even as an adult, that's helpful to know, right?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and there's um really there's I could get really, really in the weeds.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: I might hold back a little bit on this one.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: We like we like weeds.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I like weeds, okay.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's actually two different um ways of thinking about this uh with anxiety.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things is like we know where when you lean in, there's a process they call habituation.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So your body can't stay anxious forever.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as you stick with it and stick with the stimuli that's actually making you anxious without avoiding, over time your body uh one is it depletes all of those uh hormones and chemicals and stimuli that uh maintain anxiety or that fight and flight response.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing is that you actually get through a deconditioning.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So your brain learns that that thing that seems so scary and dangerous is actually not, and you can totally handle this.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh then there's the other thing.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating how your body, like even the chemical things that are going on, eventually just kind of go, oh, well, we're not getting this the stimulus that we want, so we're just gonna move on.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we just move on.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also just a piece of learning that you can have that experience of anxiety and it doesn't mean anything.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just an experience.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when your brain starts to say, like, oh, I recognize that feeling and it doesn't need to change my behavior, um, we can we see over time that you get used to it and maybe you notice it less because it's not having as much of an effect on you.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think as parents, we're like, I want to fix it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to fix this now.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: How can I?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it crosses the line into the enabling part, right?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we just kind of step back and let our kids really deal with that and lean into it, they're gonna be far better off.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, just feeling that anxiety and sitting with it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, you know, I'm not good at just gonna sit with my anxiety for a while.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and most of us don't love that experience.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So no, not at all.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting that scientifically it's proven that that actually works to just sit with it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just to sit with it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things where it's nice to be able to talk with kids and say, like, here's what's going on in your body.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my 14-year-old is a freshman in high school, had a bio project, and he got to learn all about anxiety because he had to give a TED talk about what happens and how anxiety works and how it's different than fear.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really a fun experience to work with him on that because I'm like, remember all that therapy you have, and that we that we've paid thousands of dollars for you to participate in because I am not my kids' therapist.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: That would not go well.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I understand that.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, this is what's going on, and kind of seeing that understanding, it makes it easier in those moments when maybe he is spiraling that I can say, I think this is anxiety.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: We can label it, and then we can walk through what are the things that you need to do to get yourself to a place where you can sit with it and then move on with your day.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and learning that at 14, 15 is incredible.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's such a wonderful life skill.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it really is.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things as a parent, I really want my kids to know that experiences in our body and our brain can be really uncomfortable.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you can still do the things that you want to do, but you also need to take a moment and say, like, is the juice worth the squeeze?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are some things that make us feel anxious or uncomfortable that at the end of the day, maybe this is not the thing that I want to do.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it for other reasons.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because somebody else told me to, or there's a rule that says you need to do this to be successful.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I really like to teach kids is how do you approach life in a way as you get older and wiser?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, right now we like our we like them to listen to their parents at 10, 13, 14, 15.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But how do we approach life in a way that we get to choose the things that we want to be a part of, but my symptoms and my experiences don't have to hold me back from the experiences I want to have.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, going back to like specifically sensory overload, how what are some signs that you can recognize when your child is having sensory overload?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's some of the really more clear ones, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, covering their ears, hiding.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of kids, when they're having a lot of sensory experience, you can kind of see the retreat, like their eyes get real big, they kind of get really small.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, those would be some uh visual signs.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is irritability.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when we are working to try to regulate our systems, we're using a lot of cognitive resources.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And those cognitive resources are now not available for other things like managing our emotions or impulsivity that also comes with ADFD.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things is as a parent, you know, the the thing about having neurodivergent kids is most parents have some kind of neurodiversity of their own and probably also experience some of those experiences.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I've started to learn to ask myself, especially with my daughter, is am I feeling overwhelmed right now?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I wonder what this little person is causing her to be overwhelmed.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you finding that with sensory issues, you know, we have five different senses.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unless that has changed.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't check AI before that, but five different senses.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you notice that some kids have like one particular sensory that's more than the other?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know every child is different.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I see all kinds of presentations.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: What we often see is like um a lot of tactile is pretty common in ADHD.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So tags bother them, the shoes having to be just right, or itchy fabrics uh can be bothersome, undergarments, brushing teeth, brushing hair, all of those things are really common.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And those are interesting because I remember as my kids were little, I'm like, oh my gosh, just brush your teeth.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it was like this fight for a long time until they're like, I don't like the way it feels.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm sorry that I'm pushing you to do something that that really hurts you.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just figuring this out, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be so hard because it's one of those things is how much do we accommodate?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, if you don't brush your teeth, you know, one is there's social consequences, your breast stinks, and two, it's like, God, and there's health consequences, and that's where healthy body comes, you know, there's so much in your mouth.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't know until you start this journey and you're like, oh, it's a sensory thing.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh light bulb goes on.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you, we've been through uh when you come to the taste.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the toothpaste is spicy, it was the thing.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can always I hear it in my face.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So my toothpaste is not spicy, it's minty or watermelon or bubble gum, you know?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can see a lot of the uh taste and texture.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a diagnosis that is often co-occurs for neurodivergent children as RFID or avoidant uh restrictive food intake disorder.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one where it's like maybe they have just a few things they'll eat, um, maybe restrictive diets or things that uh really like due to taste or texture, or like the brand is wrong, even.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can see that be really common in kids with ADHD as well.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um sound is another really common one as well.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like there's too much.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're going into a basketball game or going into the gymnasium for a uh oh gosh, I can't think of the word.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: An assembly.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right, yes.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just like there's so much.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just that it's loud, it's that there's a lot of different sounds, and I can't figure out what to pay attention to.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't think about that.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to pay attention to.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I never I just thought like just the sound level, like the decibel was so loud.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: But they're trying to process all of that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And with ADHD, we see that because it it's an issue with attention, sensory input doesn't get filtered in the same way that it does for people without uh this condition.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it often feels like I have all of this input and it's all equally important, even though you know the sound of the air conditioner is not near as important as what this person in front of me is saying.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the attention differentiate.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I even find myself that if there's like some kind of fan droning on like beside me, I'll kind of like I have inattentive.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just like, oh, that's nice.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband's like, Did you hear me?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, what?
• 21:59
  unknown: Can you?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Repeat that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry again.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even the internal voice, I mean, that can also be input that it that can be distracting.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do see, yeah, the more so really for your question is, you know, what do we see?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes we'll see clusters of symptoms.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So kids that tend to have sensory uh kind of difficulties often have clusters of them where there's several different sensory things that are going on at the same time.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can have the kids who have more just like um, there are certain presentations that uh tend to fall in the inattentive where they maybe just don't even really care that much.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe they're uh hypersensitive.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not really experiencing things.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought about the opposite either.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I always think like, oh, so much so much sensory.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd never thought about the opposite of that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's some kids in their sensory seekers, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we often see this too for our thrill seekers.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I need that input.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I need the pressure.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I need the feeling of things.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I even think about it for for myself, like when I sleep, I need to have heaviness in order for me to sleep effectively.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like a weighted blanket or something that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my son loves that too.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Oh, I just feel so he just feels calm and at peace.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can see both of these, and we can see both of these hyposensory and hypersensory uh issues in the same individual.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, in the same individual.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't necessarily, yeah, it's just it's again just that dysregulation, I guess.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the word.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it can dysregulate and it can dysregulate both ways.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a great way to look at it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's if there's a mom out there, and I know there's lots of us who are dealing with a kid who who she thinks they might have some sensory issues, what does she do next?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one of the very first things is depending on how insightful your child is, is trying to get more information from your child about that experience.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's something for for kids too, they need to feel understood.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And even if we have to push through some of these things, having knowing somebody is feeling empathy for me can really make a big difference.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish I was better at this sometimes as a parent, sometimes as a parent, I'm like, tough it out, come on, get figure up something about the bootstraps.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is I I have found even with my own children that saying, like, I know this is hard and we still have to do it can really help increase the motivation to deal with some of those difficulties.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so if I can understand some of those things that we can talk about too, let's talk about what we can accommodate reasonably and what are the things that we need to learn how to deal with.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, brushing teeth.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, yes, I would love for you to do a great job and do it for a full two minutes and get every surface of your teeth tooth.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is maybe we're not there.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the next thing I see is break it down.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So for my daughter, for example, we go and get teeth cleans every three months instead of every six months because we still have some of those sensory things and it's hard for her to get down to our gum line with and is really aversive.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we really focused initially on can we just like let's practice with getting the toothbrush in our mouth for you know 10 seconds.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: If we can do that, then we can move up to 20 and and then getting them brushed well.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so breaking things down into more manageable chunks can be really helpful.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, yeah, the accommodation where it's appropriate and talking about the consequences of accommodation.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh my my children both have worn uh headphones at different times of their lives due to some difficulty with sound.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we have the conversation.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Hey, when you're in preschool kindergarten, people don't really bat an eye, but as you're starting to get older, like third, fourth grade, you might get made fun of for this.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's talk about do you want to work on it?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we want to take breaks, or how do we um, you know, maybe do this in a less, in a more discrete way.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So sure, like having loop earplugs or something that's not as noticeable but still deadens the sound.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then with that too, I always say like part of learning some of the sensory management.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: There for some of these, there can be a habituation, like we see with anxiety, where if you do it, you get used to it, your brain can forget about it.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for some uh neurodivergent individuals, that doesn't happen.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they still like you still feel the itchiness or things like that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, okay, let's work on the muscle for dealing with it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we help strengthen that muscle over time?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And interesting.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when we strengthen a muscle, we don't start with a hundred pound weight.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna say, like, hey, you know what?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know that this thing is really hard for you.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna just make you do the neurotypical level of management of this.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say, okay, what are the accommodations we need to give you so we can gradually strengthen that muscle, starting with a one-pound weight instead of the hundred pound weight.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's great.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how for parents who have kids, at what point do they need to seek a professional?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's yeah, because you don't know, like you don't know how good or bad your children is.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um you just look at other people like, well, they're not like this, but like, is it that bad that I really need to talk to a professional?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things is how much how much distress is your child experiencing?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: If your child is experiencing a lot of distress, that's a lot for a little person to manage uh on their on their own during the school day when you're not there to help them and everything.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things I would say is if your child indicates like this is really bothering me and I can't deal with this, or they're coming home in tears from school every day.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those are really good signs.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, let's get some help.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other one is how much disruption does it cause your household?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I do this for a living.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm pretty good at it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for my son, we actually went and sought therapies a little later later than we did for my daughter because my daughter, when she was younger, we didn't see as many things.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had a little bit more time, honestly, to manage some of his symptoms and deal with things behaviorally.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And for my daughter, we got to a point where we were doing all the behavioral stuff.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't working very well.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And mom and kid were both in tears two to four days a week.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Been there, done that, yes.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a good summer.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we need some help.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is not, this is bigger than even us with all the background that that we have in our family with behavior therapy.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you what do you don't?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, we I didn't do that as a kid.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe it would have helped.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's just we live in such a different we know more things now, and we have different things that we can put in place that we know works and how our brain works and the chemicals, and so it's fascinating.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Katrina, I really appreciate you being on the show today.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited because we're gonna have you again in the next week or two um talking about school advocacy.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we can lean into that, but today um was so great just to talk about sensory overload.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's something that probably most of us are dealing with in our own homes.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really appreciate you.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how how can someone find you?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the best way to find uh me and and my organization is online at www.beyondtheindividual.com.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there you can see some information about our model and how we approach uh working with individuals uh who most of the individuals we work with have uh neurodiversity uh identities as well.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, again, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you, Katrina.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, thank you.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you enjoyed today's interview with Katrina.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have her on the next show as well.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so excited to have her back on.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just love talking to all of these people with so much great knowledge and people who are working directly with ADHD kids.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't feel like we're on our own.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: We need to help each other, right?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all on this different journey, and that looks so different than all of us.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I love being able to just share tools that will hopefully make your life a little bit better and make your life a little bit easier to connect with your family and really cherish and have have good family relationships instead of this really hard, ugly, overwhelming all the time.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't want that.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find more at theadhdmom.com.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a dopamine hit list and some other resources for you, the four minute resets, just a like four minute audio that helps you kind of calm your body down and select what's the next thing I need to do right now.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of four minutes, you have kind of a better idea of what you need to do next.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you can find more at theadhdmom.com.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: All right, we'll see you next time.