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Iran Strikes, Regime Change & Sane Alternatives · Bourbon & Rum

0:00
I want to resist my temptation to say that everything is
0:04
terrible about it because Trump happened to touch it, so I'm
0:08
going to dial that back. It's a gamble because it's like,
0:11
well, you know, the supposed the Top 40 leaders were annihilated.
0:16
Well, who's 41? You know what I mean?
0:19
Like I will put. This on record?
0:21
If it's a JD Vance Fetterman race, I'd pick Fetterman.
0:27
Welcome to Bourbon and Rum, the podcast dedicated to civil
0:31
conversation. I'm Kent, I like rum and I'm
0:34
from the left side of the aisle. And I'm Kyle.
0:37
I like bourbon. I tend to be a little more
0:38
conservative. We're brothers talking politics
0:41
over bourbon and rum. What are you drinking?
0:55
Well, broke out, you know, somewhat of a historical
0:59
occasion. So I poured a little Elmer T
1:02
Lee, which is a a really good Buffalo Trace bourbon and yeah,
1:09
sipping on that. What are you sipping on?
1:11
I've got a very nice daiquiri made with.
1:17
I decided to leave Venezuela behind just for the moment and
1:22
I'm drinking a Cruzan aged rum from Saint Croix.
1:29
I figured you US Virgin Island. I figured you found a an Iranian
1:32
rum you know you're going with the the theme of.
1:38
I think Iranian rum is known as being the the worst of rums so.
1:45
I would think so. The only thing worse than
1:49
Iranian rum would be Iranian bourbon.
1:52
Yes, yeah, that would be, that would be quite bad, I would
1:55
think. Well, we're recording on
1:57
Saturday night, the 28th of February, and we awoke today to
2:04
hear about the strikes on Iran. You understand this stuff and
2:09
probably pay more attention to it than I do.
2:10
You want to break down kind of what happened and what you see
2:14
in there and what your read is. Yeah, it sounds like there's
2:22
been some level of negotiation going on in the background with
2:26
the regime trying to get some kind of nuclear deal.
2:29
I think the bombings probably hurt their nuclear ambitions.
2:35
I think the widespread news reporting was that it wasn't.
2:39
You know, I think Trump over blew it a little bit by saying,
2:42
you know, we have annihilated their.
2:44
I think there was difference of opinion there.
2:46
The one of a few months ago you mean?
2:47
Right. Yeah.
2:48
So I think there's probably some concern, you know, beyond the
2:52
blustery language of did they get everything?
2:55
And then, you know, they're negotiating with these folks and
3:01
they weren't really seeming to get the the picture of the
3:06
threat that was before them. And it sounded like they were
3:09
getting back into, you know, reconstituting their programs.
3:14
And that was the concern. So, and then you take on top of
3:18
that all of the protests of recent and they, you know, they
3:21
killed like 10s of thousands in the streets that are protesting.
3:25
And it does seem like the regime was on its last leg to a degree
3:33
because you got, I mean, the people are clearly fed up and
3:37
they're, they're getting more emboldened even despite people
3:41
getting slaughtered to, to combat them.
3:45
And it seemed like the the the government was trying to hang on
3:50
by making, you know, by making the nuclear program their their
3:57
last stand. And it's like, I think the the
4:02
determination of taking out the leadership.
4:06
You know, it's a gamble because it's like, well, you know, the
4:10
supposed the Top 40 leaders were annihilated.
4:14
Well, who's 41? You know, is he somebody that we
4:18
want or or don't want? But clearly there are people, a
4:23
lot of people, at least citizenry that would love for
4:28
the regime to be gone. And so, you know, it's just a
4:31
question of can those people, can the same people of the
4:35
populace take control or is it going to be some some Yahoo?
4:42
It it does seem promising if you take out enough of the the
4:46
leaders, you know, if you just took out the Ayatollah and then,
4:50
you know, the Ayatollah and waiting is the guy that gets in,
4:53
well, you probably haven't gotten too far.
4:55
But if you really decapitate the senior leadership, could you get
5:00
down to the point where, hey, you might find some sane people,
5:03
which is the hope? So does it appear that we did
5:07
kill Khamenei? That's what that's the what the
5:11
reports are, but that's Israel and that's our intelligence.
5:15
No, I don't think a body's been paraded around or anything.
5:18
So, and I'm sure the Iranians are going to, I mean, there's
5:22
not much of A incentive for them to be truthful about that,
5:28
right, Even if they know. Although at some point if he's
5:31
dead, you know, I mean, I guess you could AI having him read in
5:36
the newspaper the next morning. But you know, well, I don't want
5:40
to. I want to resist my temptation
5:43
to say that everything is terrible about it because Trump
5:49
happened to touch it. So I'm going to dial that back.
5:52
But I obviously I do have some concerns.
5:56
I hope that it worked. I hope that it neutralizes the
6:00
threat from Iran. But my, my concerns would kind
6:05
of fall under these categories #1 Well, number one, I got to
6:13
say, I am not comfortable with us being in a armed conflict
6:20
with Israel beside us. I know that we are committed to
6:25
being a backstop and a protector of Israel.
6:29
That's very different than linking arms with them and
6:33
saying that we're going to, you know, we're going to go in
6:36
together on, on a strike. I I have a really, really low
6:41
opinion of Netanyahu. And so that's a concern for me.
6:48
Maybe you think maybe that's a distinction without a
6:51
difference, but I think it's one thing to say don't hit Israel or
6:54
we will hit you. It's very different to say we're
6:57
going to link arms and we're going to go romping through
7:00
Iran. And so I get concerns about
7:02
that. Secondly, I have concerns if
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they only killed 40 top leaders and that was it, then what you
7:09
said about kind of precipitating where people already were and
7:14
and moving along a regime change that was already underway makes
7:17
sense. Pretty sure they killed more
7:20
than 40 people that weren't in leadership.
7:24
And every one of those killings has a cost.
7:26
If you've got people that are rising up, do you blunt their do
7:33
you? Do you, do you take away their
7:35
incentive or dull their enthusiasm for regime change?
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If you're, you become the enemy, you're the enemy that they hate
7:43
rather than, you know, I don't like Khomeini, but I don't like
7:46
the US bomb and me more than I don't like Khomeini.
7:49
I don't know. Those would be the two primary
7:52
things that I would be worried about.
7:54
Yeah, well, I mean, maybe, but at the same time, some of the
8:00
Twitter video I saw of Iranian citizens cheering and giggling
8:06
that they were blowing up the Ayatollah's palace, I don't
8:10
think it's a situation. I think honestly, that's what I
8:16
like about going after the leadership because number one,
8:20
leadership is not popular. So you're taking them out.
8:24
If you're making it like, hey, we're going to fight your
8:26
country and we're going to fight your army for a protracted time,
8:31
yeah, then I think you become the enemy and you become a
8:34
problem. But if you can be seen by the
8:38
populace is doing what they wanted to get done.
8:42
I mean, that that's a good place.
8:45
And I don't think there's, you know, whether it's right, wrong
8:51
or different. I don't think there's any
8:52
appetite for putting troops on the ground and occupying Tehran.
8:57
So. I mean.
8:58
I well and. I would think, you know, if #41
9:07
gets instated and he knows that the Top 40 were annihilated in a
9:12
surprise attack in 24 hours, you know, it's some number after 40,
9:18
somebody's going to start putting two and two together
9:20
like, well, I don't want to die, so maybe I can work with these
9:24
guys. You know, no, I get that.
9:26
And I hope that that's the case, right?
9:28
Like I'm, I'm not playing politics over national interest
9:33
in this. I hope that it works out to our
9:35
benefit. I I do worry about, you know,
9:39
what can you accomplish with bombing if you got the
9:42
leadership, if it really happened that I mean, that's,
9:45
that's incredible. But you know, we've talked about
9:48
this before you. It's really hard to bomb a
9:54
nation in this submission. And we're not talking about, I
9:57
mean, with respect to the what you saw on Twitter, you know,
10:01
this is kind of after 911, you know, people were rejoicing all
10:05
over the Middle East and what you saw was the same video of 20
10:08
people like over and. Over again, dancing in the
10:12
streets. There are.
10:16
After having watched the interview with Ted Cruz and
10:19
Tucker Carlson, I feel pretty confident that there are about
10:22
95 million people in. Iran.
10:24
Hey, you didn't watch it. Finally.
10:25
I did. So I don't know how many, how
10:28
many people you saw dancing on Twitter, but I hope that it's
10:31
representative of the general will of those 95 million.
10:36
Well, I mean, I mean, there's like, I mean, outside of any
10:42
Twitter thing, I mean, there are like, I mean, we could pull
10:47
them. They include them in the show
10:50
notes. But I mean, there are legitimate
10:51
international polls that have been done to show how unpopular
10:56
the Iranian government is. It's not like, you know, these
11:00
people are all, I mean, they've been demonstrating in the street
11:06
by 10s of thousands and getting themselves killed in opposition
11:09
to the government. It's possible that we become the
11:13
bad guy because we took out the leadership.
11:15
But it certainly seems like it's going to be viewed in a positive
11:20
way. Just out of curiosity, how like
11:23
what kind of numbers were you seeing in terms of unpopular
11:28
like 65% negative or? So like, here's a survey.
11:38
It's an Iran international. I think it's an Iranian news
11:43
agency that probably operates outside of Iran because they're,
11:47
you know, talking bad about Iran.
11:50
In June 2024, they pulled more than 77,000 respondents inside
11:57
Iran. Only around 20% wanted the
12:01
Islamic Republic to remain in power.
12:03
So I mean there's 20%. Well this is going to sound like
12:09
an asshole move but I'm going to say this.
12:13
So they're 8020 opposed to the regime. 10s of thousands of
12:19
people have been protesting and people have been killed.
12:24
Well, supposedly 10s of thousands have been killed, but
12:27
yeah. OK, Well, OK, that's a different
12:29
deal. But I was going to say, because
12:33
we're about 6535 in this country, 10s of thousands of
12:39
people were marching in Minneapolis a couple of weeks
12:41
ago. I mean, I would not want to kill
12:44
30. 1000 people in the streets. We did not.
12:47
We killed several. And how would you feel?
12:53
I'm not. No, I'm not.
12:57
That's a stretch. I have to say it, it's.
12:59
A it's a stretch. I'm but what I'm saying though
13:02
is I mean, if Russia said, hey, look, Trump's really unpopular,
13:08
65% of the Americans don't want him in office, therefore we're
13:12
going to do him a favor and take him out.
13:15
You know, all of a sudden I move from anti Trump to, you know,
13:22
Red Dawn. So I I don't know, I just the
13:28
other. Aspect I also questioned whether
13:34
20% is a real number. If I'm living in Iran and
13:38
somebody calls me with a pole, you think I'm going to say I
13:42
hate the supreme leader? I don't think so.
13:45
I so I don't, and again, we're not doing this because, you
13:50
know, we're trying to satisfy the poles of Iran and we're
13:56
doing this because the guy's a threat to the rest of the world.
13:58
But I'm sorry, I I get where you're going and I wasn't trying
14:04
to insult you, but I I think that's a bit of a stretch.
14:09
It's obviously a bit of a stretch.
14:10
I'm just, I'm just pointing out though, I mean, you know, we
14:16
need to, we need to be damn sure of the rhetoric that we're going
14:19
to rely on, I think. And I, I just don't, you know.
14:24
Well, the proof's going to be in the pudding.
14:25
I mean, if it turns out that, you know, a bunch of people are
14:31
all of a sudden rebelling against I but I mean, I don't
14:35
think we're going to put boots on the ground.
14:37
I don't think there's any, any desire to do that.
14:39
So I think the bigger risk of us being the bad guy and they're
14:46
against, it's more about who's going to get in power because
14:50
there's going to be a power vacuum and, you know, there's
14:53
egos involved and people are going to run around the show.
14:57
Are they going to be people that we?
15:01
Well, and honestly, it's kind of like even if they don't like us,
15:07
I mean, OK, don't like us. We just don't want you shooting
15:11
missiles at people. But.
15:16
What do you expect to happen? So the last time, you know, it
15:21
was kind of notable, actually, people said, you know, we made a
15:23
very, a very closely circumscribed strike, right?
15:28
We only hit the nuclear stuff. And rather than trying to go to
15:32
war, they, they made a few, you know, they shot a few missiles.
15:36
But most commentators said it was kind of a, you know, kind of
15:41
a, a show. It wasn't.
15:44
They weren't really trying to escalate.
15:47
You know, they, they had to fire something at us to make it look
15:50
like they responded. But they weren't really going
15:52
hardcore. Looks like there's been a lot
15:54
more response from them this time.
15:56
What does that augur for us? Well, I don't know that I, I
16:00
mean, the, the, the biggest response was when they bombed
16:05
Israel with, you know, they shot like 1000 missiles and like four
16:11
made it through the Iron Dome or something.
16:14
So I don't, I don't know that this particular round of
16:20
missiles was I don't know. I don't know what the number is,
16:23
how that compares. The other thing I wanted to
16:27
address, you'd pointed out about you don't like being in the same
16:32
side as Israel in a conflict. You don't think it's really that
16:37
unprecedented? I mean, we've had pretty aligned
16:41
interests in the Middle East for a long time and we've been
16:44
pretty clear about participating in operations together.
16:48
I mean, we participated clearly in the Iran operation
16:51
previously. I think there's been other
16:54
military collaboration previously.
16:57
So I, I don't know that it's, I mean, I get that you're
16:59
uncomfortable with it, but I don't think it's necessarily
17:01
unprecedented. Yeah, I don't know that it's
17:04
unprecedented. I, I don't like it.
17:06
I think that am I mistaken? But during like Desert Storm, if
17:13
I'm not mistaken, like Israel, you know, I, I think we probably
17:17
used air bases and stuff like that, but they were largely kind
17:22
of low profile in that in part because we were trying to work
17:26
with Saudi Arabia and other, you know, it is.
17:29
So they kind of took a back seat to it.
17:32
Well, you know, they did and but you know, that's another
17:35
interesting thing at play here. So like Saudi is now, I mean,
17:41
not that they were pals with Iran before, but they're really
17:44
pissed at him because, you know, they said, hey, we're not going
17:47
to allow and they stated publicly that we're not going to
17:50
allow the US to use any, you know, they can't fly over our
17:54
country. They can't base any aircraft to
17:57
make any attacks on Iran. And so they've made that really
17:59
clear. Then Iran shot missiles in
18:01
Riyadh and now Iran is like, OK, screw you, Iran.
18:05
So I, I do think the Arab population in general in the
18:13
Middle East is turned on Iran. They don't really have any
18:17
allies in the, you know, because it, because it pissed everybody
18:22
off. So I think that's a, a positive
18:27
in the sense that, you know, I don't think the Saudis, I mean,
18:33
they don't want to get missiles thrown at them.
18:36
Or did they Dubai, a missile hit the the Fairmont Hotel in Dubai
18:42
today, so they had to close the the airspace.
18:46
But I don't think in general those countries are losing a lot
18:50
of sleep about the Ayatollah getting taken out, I think.
18:53
That's that's probably true. There's also a lot of, you know,
18:57
there's historically a lot of bad blood between Iran and much
19:01
of the rest of the the, the Muslim world.
19:07
Iran is a primarily A Shiite nation rather than Sunni Muslim,
19:12
which is more common among the other countries.
19:15
I think that adds to that kind of outsider nature.
19:19
You know, they're, they're kind of a different animal than a lot
19:22
of the other Middle Eastern countries because of that.
19:25
Well, and you know, that I think is also a there's some optimism,
19:35
I think about Iran governing itself peacefully post nut jobs
19:44
because they're it's a much more homogeneous Society of mostly
19:48
Shia. You know, I think one of the
19:49
challenges in Iraq you had is after part of the reason why
19:54
Iraq worked under Saddam Hussein is because he was a brutal
19:58
dictator and he made sure nobody messed with each other and he
20:01
kept everybody in check because they're all scared of him.
20:03
But once you took him out, you had a lot of sectarian violence
20:08
inside of Iraq because you had this Sunni, Shia, you know, kind
20:14
of 5050. I don't know if it's 50506040.
20:19
You know, it's Democrats Republic.
20:21
And multi ethnic too in Iraq as well, right?
20:25
And that I think is part of why there was this continued
20:28
violence. That's where I think there's
20:30
some hope with with Iran that they could actually get their
20:36
act together. I think, you know, there are
20:38
people too in that 20% that say they support the Islamic
20:44
Republic. I think, you know, we talked
20:46
about this on earlier podcast. I think in 79, there were a lot
20:52
of idealists that wanted the Islamic Republic and wanted the
20:57
Ayatollah. They wanted this religious
20:59
leader running the show. But over the course of 40 years,
21:04
there became a lot of disillusionment with that
21:08
because instead of being the theocratic ruler, turns out
21:12
these guys became billionaires and were thugs, you know, And I
21:16
think people became disillusioned with this idea of
21:19
that you're having this pure religious guy in charge.
21:22
And so I think there are people that probably support the
21:26
concept of Islamic Republic, but they don't like the path that
21:30
has been gone down with the current leadership so.
21:33
I mean I. Think going forward, there's
21:38
probably going to be a lot of support for a a more secular
21:45
government within Iran, but there probably are a lot of
21:47
people that would like a an Islamic governance.
21:54
And honestly, if he had the the rulers that, you know, didn't
22:01
pick fights with their neighbors, that might work out
22:02
OK. I mean Saudis essentially an
22:06
Islamic Republic. I mean, I can, I can attest
22:09
first hand at the 5:30 AM prayer we'll put.
22:14
We'll put Republican air quotes there when you talk about the
22:18
zombies. I mean, yeah, what kind of
22:22
That's true? Kind kind of like how, you know,
22:25
the People's Democratic Republic of North Korea, you know?
22:33
Yeah. Well, you know, of course, you
22:36
know, I love the history. And you look back and so much of
22:40
what happened in 1979, we, you know, we we don't do a good job
22:46
of taking responsibility for it. But our support of the Shah, the
22:52
corruption and the decadence of that regime was just off the
22:58
charts. So yeah.
23:02
Well, and that's what was so interesting about.
23:04
I don't know, you know, I'm not as knowledgeable about Iran as
23:07
Ted Cruz. But you know, as I dug into it a
23:10
little bit, I said that facetiously.
23:15
You didn't, you didn't respond. You know, I'm not as
23:17
knowledgeable as Ted that that means I really don't know shit.
23:20
But no, but I mean, I did do some reading about it and it was
23:25
interesting because the like the people that went for the Islamic
23:29
Republic under the Ayatollah, it's because of the decadence,
23:32
because of all the riches and the secular.
23:34
And then I think they figured out, OK, the guy is coming in,
23:39
he's going to be the religious leader and he turns out to be no
23:42
different than the Shah. You know, you, you give people
23:45
enough money in and let them have 0 accountability, they're
23:53
going to be a corrupt ruler, you know?
23:55
What do you think happens next I.
23:58
Don't know that the money I'm back to your point.
24:01
You know these congressmen OK, you get 1,000,000 bucks a year.
24:08
You can't, you know, you, you can only put everything in blind
24:11
investments and you know, you can't get a job after you, after
24:15
your term limit is up and you know, go do 2 terms as a
24:20
senator, you're going to make 12 million bucks.
24:22
You'll be good for the rest of your life.
24:23
Then leave and shut up. Yeah, yeah.
24:26
I don't know if we've ever fully laid out my plan for, for, for
24:31
governmental efficiency, but literally we could afford to
24:36
bribe, you know, fill in the blank number that we could say
24:41
to Congress, anybody like the to Congress, you're going to be
24:45
filthy rich. When you're done with our money,
24:48
we're going to give you the money and everybody.
24:50
'S going to know they gave it to you, right?
24:52
Right, but you can't, you can't own any stock.
24:57
We we will buy, we will buy at market anything you own any
25:01
company that you have, we will buy it at market, market plus
25:05
10%. We're going to make you filthy
25:07
rich and. You know what you could do like.
25:12
Yeah, But my plan is like, look, you get a you, you get elected a
25:15
national office in this country, you are going to be rich.
25:18
We promise you. And we will give it to you.
25:21
But the trade off is that you can't get rich.
25:24
Other than that, we're going to give you enough money.
25:26
We'll give you, we'll give you a private jet like we'll we'll buy
25:29
a fleet of Gulf streams. We'll let you, you and your
25:31
family can jet around the world. I don't care.
25:34
You could spend billions of dollars.
25:36
Think this through. You could spend billions of
25:39
dollars enriching those people if they would only agree to take
25:44
only the the thievery that you're giving them out of the
25:49
government. Because it costs us billions,
25:53
trillions of dollars for these people to leave and to go
25:56
lobbying and get the kickbacks and all the stuff that happens.
26:01
It's a Yeah, it's a racket. Yeah, totally.
26:05
But, you know, people resist this.
26:07
I heard somebody, you know, like, I mean, you hear this all
26:10
the time. People are like, well, it's
26:11
congressman. They make, they make 200 grand a
26:15
year, you know. Yeah, I saw they the, there was
26:20
this big stink because the like the Virginia State Congress or
26:27
Senator, Senator something voted for it to triple their wages.
26:32
Everybody they triple their wages.
26:33
Well, their wages were $18,000 a year and they had been in place
26:39
since 1981 and they tripled them to like 50 grand.
26:42
And it's like, I mean. But but figure what you get.
26:48
The fact all these people are taking those jobs at $18,000 a
26:51
year that. Is the whole.
26:53
Case in point to your whole thing, they're not living off of
26:56
18,000. Dollars a year?
26:58
Obviously, no, I mean, and, and I think a lot of legislators
27:03
that way, they pay nothing. And so, yeah, if there are
27:06
people who are independently wealthy, don't need the money
27:10
and want to serve their state or their community, God bless them.
27:15
But you either have to be independently wealthy or you
27:18
have to be crooked. That's a bad.
27:21
That's a bad binary to put in front of people.
27:24
It's not a representative group, right?
27:27
Right. I either want bazillionaires or
27:30
crooks or both. Yeah, those are the only people
27:33
I'm interested in governing me. Yeah, that's great.
27:38
Yeah, we got how do we get how do we get to.
27:43
Well, let me just I'll. Just rap on Iran.
27:46
I, you know, Trump did it. I'm inherently skeptical.
27:50
I'm going to hope for, I'm going to hope for good outcomes for
27:55
this country and for the world. Yeah, and I regardless of what
27:59
happens going forward, I think sending the Ayatollah to the
28:04
afterlife is probably a a good plan.
28:08
I do notice that, you know, do you think the timing is
28:12
completely Nah, I'm not going to go there.
28:14
You going to say the E word but well.
28:17
You know, I thought about that and OK, now let's see how you
28:23
think of this. If the price of making Iran a
28:31
free nation is more Epstein cover up, OK.
28:37
Wow, no, I don't agree. I think if Iran needs to be a
28:42
free nation, the people I'm happy with us helping and if
28:44
this plays out fine, that's good.
28:47
In general, I think people are responsible for their own
28:50
freedom. And and look, I got to put an
28:53
asterisk next to that. That's not always easy.
28:55
I don't mean to act like, but really, can you give people
29:00
freedom? Can you, you can OK, I, I say
29:06
freedom for Iran is 1 benefit. Another benefit is you don't
29:11
have some guy arming Hezbollah and Hamas and creating terror.
29:15
The the leading state sponsor of terrorism in the world.
29:18
He's gone and the the Middle East is way more stable and
29:23
positive. I again, I'm not saying I want a
29:28
Epstein cover up, but like if I'm weighing those two issues
29:33
I'll take World Peace. Well, I let's, I think I would.
29:39
I'd rather not have to make that choice.
29:41
So maybe we can just avoid. You wouldn't.
29:43
Take World Peace over an Epstein cover up world.
29:50
Peace forever or World Peace for six months.
29:53
And because I don't think we can deliver World Peace.
29:58
OK, well, let's look, let's let's take another look at six
30:01
months. No, but no, just to be clear,
30:04
because I don't want to sound like an ass when I say this, but
30:07
like, yeah, if I could have World Peace and and that's a
30:12
ongoing status quo, that's one thing.
30:15
But you know, kicking the can down the road another couple of
30:20
years, the idea of fixing the relationship of Iran to the West
30:27
seems like a pretty ambitious hope that a few missiles is
30:30
going to do. I mean a nuclear armed Iran,
30:36
kick the can down the road, let them have a nuclear arms.
30:40
I don't know. I.
30:41
Think no, I'm just saying does this fix it or does this just
30:44
kick the can down the road? I don't.
30:48
Know, and I mean, and the Epstein thing, it's like, I, I
30:51
mean, we're back. We can go back to the Epstein
30:53
thing. I it's like again, what is there
30:58
going to be to learn about I, you know, so Clinton testified.
31:05
I never knew he did that kind of thing.
31:09
OK. Well, right.
31:13
Ludicrous. Look, I I no, you, you, you, you
31:17
will never pin me to defending Bill Clinton in this deal, No.
31:21
But I'm just saying like, I I guess what I'm saying is it's
31:24
like, OK, you put Clinton on the stand and he said, yeah, I
31:31
didn't know anything that was going on and, and nobody
31:34
believes that. But what are you going to do
31:37
about it? Well, probably nothing, but what
31:41
do you? Well, first of all, I don't
31:43
know. It is having an effect in a lot
31:45
of places. And I will say, you know, it's
31:47
frustrating to people because we've seen nothing out of
31:49
government in this. But in private industry, the
31:53
Epstein files are having a pretty significant effect.
31:56
There are people that are losing their jobs good, like the lady
32:01
for the general counsel Goldman Sachs, who was like his best
32:05
bud. And, you know, some of these
32:07
people are are paying a, a, if not a league and they're not
32:11
going to jail, but they're losing high profile positions.
32:14
And, you know, I think that's only a, a good thing.
32:20
At the risk of sounding shrill, have you looked at what at least
32:24
the allegations are around this set of missing stuff that was
32:31
ostensibly dropped out with the testimony about about Trump?
32:36
Have you have you been tracking that most recent story?
32:39
The the the one the sexual assault allegation on.
32:43
Him. Yeah.
32:44
You know, it's interesting because I don't know.
32:49
I don't think everybody would be with me.
32:51
I've been all along. I don't think that.
32:56
I think Trump's, in my mind, Trump's crime is knowing what's
32:58
going on. And and if he turned him in, he
33:02
didn't turn him in soon enough. I mean that would that would be
33:05
my primary complaint. He turned him in, Clinton said.
33:09
I'm flying on the plane and have no knowledge of anything going
33:13
on like. No, I, I'm not going to argue
33:16
that. And I, I, you know, people are
33:18
going to think what they think. I, I don't think that you're
33:22
ever going to find a smoking gun about Donald Trump with
33:26
underage. I, I hope I'm right.
33:28
I, I, I don't think that's the issue.
33:32
And clearly a guy runs for president or is elected
33:35
president, a lot of things come out of the woodwork.
33:38
And I'm sure there were salacious allegations against
33:40
him and they probably, they, they may well have been
33:44
disproved. But what's at stake here?
33:48
And I think this isn't about Donald Trump or not directly.
33:52
I think this is about incompetence of the Justice
33:54
Department. It it, it's like the lesson from
33:58
Watergate comes up. If they really did try to sweep
34:02
under the rug 40 pages or some number of testimony that that
34:09
looked bad on Trump. Like even if you thought it was
34:11
a, a nonsense allegation, put a memo on it and say we we
34:16
investigated this and found that it was a nonsense obligation.
34:20
But when you hide it and try to sweep it under the rug, man,
34:22
that's a bad look. It's just a bad look.
34:26
Yeah, yeah. No, I agree.
34:28
So I don't know what they're going to do about, well,
34:31
probably nothing. But you know, that's again, it's
34:35
like the the cover up just baffles me.
34:40
The Who is it that 3 presidents are taking orders from?
34:46
That's the thing that just blows my mind.
34:49
Yeah, No, I'm, I'm with you. There's a lot there that doesn't
34:51
make sense. I mean, I guess, but but to take
34:56
it back to the Iran thing. So I mean, what's the answer
35:02
there? Like we the the government needs
35:05
to grind to a halt till we figure out Epstein before
35:07
anybody does anything else in the world.
35:09
I mean. No, not at all.
35:11
I just, I'm just suspicious why? You know what happened today and
35:18
the fact that it it and, and maybe, and I'm going to
35:22
acknowledge this, maybe this is one of the things.
35:24
The thing is that there's so much material in the Epstein
35:26
files. It's going to keep coming out.
35:29
All kinds of news media are doing AI research and stringing
35:34
things together. And so it's going to be this
35:37
slow trickle that it's going to be in the news forever.
35:40
To your point, no, we can't stop our government from moving.
35:43
But was this nowhere in Trump's mind when he's making this
35:48
decision? But again, like, what is the, if
35:55
you play that out like, well, I'm not going to solve this
36:00
global military conflict or I I'm going to do this because I
36:06
don't want people to see this stuff about me and see bad
36:09
things about me. Well, I mean, the guy has
36:12
nothing but negative news coverage.
36:14
I mean, it's not like, I mean, there's nothing positive
36:18
remotely about him anywhere in the press.
36:20
So it's like I, I, I guess I just don't get the like, why
36:26
would he care? Yeah, well, and my conspiracy
36:32
theory card is fully punched at this point.
36:36
I think it's worse. I, I think if, I think if Trump
36:41
had a personal skeleton in the closet that he was afraid of
36:46
coming out with Epstein. First of all, I think if it was
36:49
there, we would have heard it before.
36:51
Secondly, if that's what he was playing for, like I'm almost
36:57
marginally sympathetic to that, right?
36:59
If you're covering your own ass and you go to great lengths to
37:04
cover your own ass, like that's a very human thing.
37:09
But we go to great lengths where where hiding files were sweeping
37:14
things under the rug. We're deleting stuff, not to
37:19
protect him, not to keep his name out of the thing.
37:23
Then for what? And it's almost like it looks
37:25
worse to me if. It's not why to him, all the
37:29
other guys protect the same stuff.
37:32
Same. Exactly exactly.
37:35
If there was a smoking gun and Biden didn't use it, who who got
37:40
a hold of him, right? Like I don't, I just don't
37:43
understand. I I think I do understand.
37:47
Well, I think the other component here that isn't going
37:51
to satisfy your conspiratorial, what's the word I'm looking for?
37:56
Disposition is, you know, it's possible the government, I mean,
38:05
you can say it's, you can say it's incompetent.
38:12
I don't know that it's incompetent.
38:13
It's just you got millions of files and 500 lawyers.
38:20
Again, like I work with a lawyer every day.
38:23
Great guy. If there were 500 of him
38:26
touching any number of documents, I question whether
38:30
anything would ever get done with anything.
38:34
So I don't know. I.
38:35
I hear you loud and clear on that.
38:37
I'm just saying and and I think that that explains a lot of the
38:41
mistakes and I think that's legitimate.
38:44
And again, but like what? Well, I'm not going to try to
38:47
micromanage, but if I'm Pam Bondi, instead of talking about
38:53
the Dow Jones, I think I say we made mistakes and we're probably
38:57
going to make more because you passed a law that gave us no
39:02
margin for error. We're doing our best.
39:05
We will correct everything that we can when we find it, but it's
39:09
going to happen because you're redacting 6,000,000 documents,
39:12
so. Is Pam, is Pam Bondi the type of
39:15
person that in your mind that is a good communicator of nuanced
39:20
factors like that? Because in my mind, she's not.
39:24
But yeah. Well, yeah, I just think, you
39:29
know, she's like. Can you can you write the words
39:33
and the cue cards in big letters please and small words please?
39:39
Well, yeah, I, I mean, you know, and this isn't, this is about me
39:42
just being pissy about that. But like, man, that, like her
39:50
testimony does not make my conspiracy thing go down.
39:56
It does not make me feel like, oh, yeah, no, they're on,
40:00
they're on it. They they got this.
40:04
It did. Yeah.
40:05
Well, but. OK, but OK, let's unpack that a
40:09
little bit though. I mean my comments about her, I
40:14
agree with you. She sounds like a dumb ass.
40:18
So for you to satisfy your conspiratorial angle, it has to
40:22
be that she's actually Albert Einstein.
40:25
But she's making herself sound like a dumb ass so that she can
40:29
cover up this grand scheme that she's hiding.
40:32
I mean, if you think that's the case, OK, but you know.
40:37
Well, I'm just saying that if you look at her text or her
40:40
Signal chat like Pete Hugseth, I mean does she name the group
40:46
build a burger or trilateral Commission when she gets the
40:50
texts to tell her what to do again?
40:56
She's communicating on a Signal chat.
40:59
Does that again does that the evil mastermind is that?
41:04
Is that painting that picture I mean.
41:08
She's got a second cell phone. It's a trilateral issued cell
41:13
phone that she carries in her left pocket I guess.
41:16
She got done with the stock market thing and then she saw on
41:19
the side she started speaking fluent Russian to somebody and.
41:25
That makes me think of, you know, we do a lot of too many
41:29
movie quotes or former clips. You know you're seeing No Way
41:33
Out with Kevin Costner back in the day.
41:36
Gosh, I think so. I.
41:37
Don't. That is a good film.
41:38
Gene Hackman's A Senator and. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:42
But the the ending of that, I mean, the movie's been out for
41:46
40 years. We could probably spoil the
41:48
surprise without too much. But the whole thing is that he's
41:52
being framed as a spy and he's fighting for his life, and he
41:57
finally beats it. And at the very end of the
42:00
movie, you realize, no, he actually was a spy.
42:04
Was a good flake. I'm single tonight, I may have
42:07
to watch that. That sounds good.
42:10
I like it. May I say to I kind of like
42:14
doing the podcast at night. You know what?
42:16
It reminds me. It gives me it.
42:20
It gives me good memories of Art Bell.
42:24
You know, I feel like we need that music, that bum.
42:26
Bum bum, bum, bum you. Know from the High Desert
42:30
reporting to Kent. I think you know what if we got
42:34
past Trump and Iran and you know, the kind of stuff that we
42:39
know, maybe we need to branch into some, you know,
42:44
cryptozoology and UFO kind of. Stuff.
42:51
Well, you know, I didn't want to go down tangent too long here,
42:54
but before I ran the Iran situation usurped our topics, I
43:02
was going to raise to you a topic I got to thinking about
43:07
after the debate. Actually, I have to credit our
43:10
cousin, our cousin Tommy, who I was having a conversation with
43:14
Friday morning and we were chatting about stuff.
43:17
And it got me thinking about this.
43:19
And, and maybe this is a, a topic for a future podcast, but
43:25
I feel like the Trump factor in politics is creating a situation
43:34
in the next election where neither party is really going to
43:39
get what they want. And what I mean by that is I
43:43
think if you're a Democrat, you have to be 100% anti Trump and
43:48
anti everything he stands for to hold the party line.
43:52
And to do that, I think you're going to get what you're going
43:56
to wind up with. Kind of your fear is the far
43:59
left, because if you go any place other than far left, well,
44:04
you're going toward Trump and then, you know, that's
44:07
unacceptable. So if you're a Democrat, there's
44:12
a good chance you're not. You know, there's going to be
44:15
some, the far left, they're going to get what they want, but
44:17
the rank and file aren't going to get what they want.
44:19
And then if you look at the much of the Republican Party, if
44:24
you're really analyze what they want and what they stand for,
44:29
the conservatives, a lot of what Trump has done is not, you know,
44:34
to your point, it's not mainstream conservative
44:38
activity. But the next guy to get the
44:40
nomination is going to have to carry on the Trump game plan.
44:45
And so if you're if you're a Ronald Reagan Republican, you're
44:50
not getting what you want the next election.
44:52
There's only going to be, you know, it's like the extremes are
44:55
each going to get what they want.
44:57
And, you know, how do you get to a place where you get to more
45:04
moderate inclusive candidates? Is that ever even possible?
45:09
Yeah, it's it's going to be tough.
45:11
And at some point though, does it go so far?
45:14
So, yeah, is it AOC versus, I don't know, Alex Jones and I
45:22
don't even and I would pay to see that debate seriously.
45:34
No, I, I agree. You know, I mean, one of the
45:38
tragedies in this to me honestly, is JD Vance.
45:42
I, I read his book, man, I, I was impressed back in the day.
45:48
I thought, wow, he, he kind of sees, he sees a problem that I
45:52
think a lot of the left is ignoring in this country.
45:55
I, I really believe that. But now like he he acts like he
46:03
believes that he's got to be more outrageous than Trump just
46:07
to get noticed. And so he's just going to double
46:11
down on it. Who would you like?
46:13
Who would you pick if you had your choice of people that are
46:16
in the news? I really like Marco Rubio.
46:20
Sure. I mean, that seems fair.
46:23
Yeah. Man, he is working hard to avoid
46:26
getting the stink on him though, and it's a hard, it's a hard
46:30
job. Yeah, I think he, I like it.
46:35
He's got credibility of his own. And I feel like, you know, I, I
46:43
get the sense Trump really listens to him and respects him,
46:46
which I don't get that sense of Vance necessarily.
46:51
Right. Who'd?
46:53
Who'd have thought that little Marco would have?
46:59
I know such a confidant. Well, it it's kind of also like
47:06
being the vice president isn't a very good deal to anybody.
47:10
I mean, that's kind of a kiss of death, really.
47:13
Yeah, no, that's a that is a bad gig.
47:16
There's no question about that. Just ask Mike Pence.
47:20
Yes. How's it hanging, Mike?
47:27
I I tell you, the most painful news conferences were those
47:32
COVID conferences when Mike Pence will get up.
47:35
Well, Mr. President, Mr. President, I'm glad you blah,
47:38
blah, blah, blah. Mr. President, Mr. President A.
47:44
Little hard to watch. No, no.
47:49
Anybody else you like on the horizon there, I mean?
47:55
Haven't really thought about it much beyond that.
47:59
That's a good question, Kent. I really like John Fetterman.
48:05
I'd vote for him. That's interesting.
48:08
I mean, do you think he's going to ever run for anything again?
48:13
I don't know. I mean, I like him.
48:15
I mean, one, I like him because I feel like he he's he doesn't
48:22
necessarily play to one side only.
48:24
I mean, I don't know if you're a Democrat, but I don't like him
48:26
because he has made overtures to Trump, but he also voices his
48:29
own opinions about I mean, he's not like a sycophant of Trump.
48:33
I mean, he's a he criticizes, he's got his own opinions.
48:36
He's he's probably has a lot of views I don't necessarily agree
48:40
with. I just like, I like the realness
48:43
with him. I mean, I get a sense of he's
48:44
just a, a real dude, which is I. Completely agree with that and I
48:50
I I like I would rather have an independent thinker who I don't
48:56
agree with then very much agree with you on that 100%.
49:03
Who else? Who are you?
49:04
Who else do you see? Do you like?
49:07
I don't know. There's just not a lot that are.
49:15
I mean, I have a really hard time, honestly, I have a really
49:17
hard time of people that and I don't know, maybe I should be
49:23
more sympathetic. The way to play the game with
49:26
Trump is that you got to kiss his ass and he just requires a
49:32
lot of ass kissing and they do it.
49:34
And so it's hard to respect people that just grovel like
49:42
that to me. And at the same time, like, what
49:44
are they going to do? They're going to get primaried
49:46
and run out of town if they don't.
49:47
So I don't know. I don't know.
49:50
I'd take, you know, tell me, call me crazy.
49:52
Like Rand Paul doesn't care about anything, you know?
49:56
I like Rand Paul. I, I, I listened to him for a
50:00
three hour Joe Morgan interview and yeah, he's a reasonable guy.
50:04
I probably disagree with 97% of what he believes, but I don't
50:10
think he's out to destroy the Republic.
50:12
And I think that, you know, he's not beholden to somebody.
50:18
I really like RFK Junior too and I know that'll make your blood
50:22
boil, but. No, it doesn't.
50:24
I so so I, I have a real, I have a real problem with RFK junior
50:32
because what he's doing is so damn wrong.
50:37
And like if he was in charge of anything other than healthcare,
50:43
like we might be fine. It's like you took the the
50:46
lunatic and you put him in front of the asylum.
50:49
But in general, the fact that he's a kind of classic, I'm OK
50:54
with that. In fact, any questions,
50:56
conventional wisdom, I'm OK with that.
50:58
I don't well, I know he's butted up against a lot of big industry
51:08
players and that pisses a lot of people off.
51:10
But I he was on Rogan on Friday and he's a credible guy.
51:17
And I think the stuff he's talking about is very credible.
51:20
I mean, pretty interesting. Some of the stuff he was talking
51:25
about, the fraud, like the fraud, some of the fraud that's
51:28
going on. You know, there was, there was a
51:30
lot of press about the fraud in Minnesota, but he said the
51:33
biggest, some of the biggest fraud then cover was in Florida,
51:37
medical device fraud. It's like hundreds of billions
51:41
of dollars a year. Like you can set up a medical
51:44
device store, as long as you get a patient ID of somebody,
51:48
Medicare patient ID, you can bill them all day long.
51:51
So I mean, I do think he's doing some really good things.
51:54
I mean, I'm sure there's people who disagree with some of the
52:00
medical aspects, but you know. I think he's.
52:03
I I just, I like the independent voice.
52:07
I agree with you on that. I I'm going to go ahead and vote
52:10
against measles, but the independent voice.
52:14
No, some of that stuff, some of the structure of Medicare and
52:19
Medicaid and some of the pricing models.
52:22
Hey, those, those are, I think, very legitimate things to topple
52:28
or to expose. Yeah, it's the, you know, the
52:32
the no measles vaccine kind of, you know, it's like, boy, if you
52:37
could approach the stuff that's really broken and just not be
52:41
such a colossal ass on the other.
52:45
But isn't that always the problem?
52:48
Well, I think the reason he's a colossal ass is, in your view,
52:52
because he's a fly in the ointment and he's asking
52:54
questions that people don't want asked, you know, and it's going
52:58
to piss people off, but I like that.
53:01
Yeah, interesting. Well, to your point, yeah.
53:05
So is that where we're headed for Alex Jones versus maybe the
53:10
Elizabeth Warren AOC ticket of the two of them?
53:14
You know, maybe that's where we're headed.
53:16
I don't know. I mean, I the thing I like about
53:20
Marco is I don't, whereas I think other people are sucking
53:26
up to Trump and following his lead.
53:29
I think a lot of our foreign policy is getting dictated by
53:32
Marco Rubio. I think he's leading it and I
53:34
think Trump's following him. And I think that's a different,
53:38
that's what makes him a little bit different than some of these
53:41
other folks that are just hanging on Trump's coattails.
53:45
And I think he'd be pretty capable of leading.
53:49
I think he'd be more modern in a lot of ways so.
53:51
Well, before he got assassinated in the 2016 election, he was, I
53:59
mean, in the primaries, I mean, he was a, you had to call him a
54:03
front runner out of that whole group of people, you know,
54:07
certainly got the bona fides to do the job so.
54:11
Fetterman will run against him and Fetterman could call him a
54:14
little Marco because he would be much smaller than Fetterman.
54:18
Those two need to team up. You know the Yeah, I mean
54:22
seriously. So to your point though, like if
54:23
it keeps going, I mean is, you know, Rubio speaks to you.
54:32
Does Rubio speak to Horn guy from January 6th?
54:36
And I'm just throwing that out there.
54:37
But right, probably not. He's probably not enough of a
54:41
bomb thrower for some of those people, I'm sure.
54:44
And so you know. Well, I mean, Trump now is, you
54:49
know, like a bunch of people are pissed at him.
54:51
You know, like Thomas Massie while taking out the Ayatollah
54:54
is not America first, you know, OK.
54:57
Yeah, well, So what do you wind up and and at some point this
55:00
goes to my Co worker who raised the question with me.
55:07
You know, what would it take for us to flip?
55:09
What would it what would it how how bad would the Democrat
55:12
nominee have to be for me to vote for Marco Rubio?
55:15
I will tell you that that Democrat is less bad to get me
55:19
to vote for Marco Rubio. Then the Democrat I would walk
55:24
away from to vote for JD Vance or you, you know what I mean?
55:29
Like I will put. This on record?
55:32
If it's a JD Vance Fetterman race, I'd pick Fetterman.
55:38
OK, well, if it's if it's Marco Rubio versus, I don't even know,
55:48
put fill in the blank there. I don't want to commit to it
55:52
'cause it might be really bad, but I'd suck it up and vote for
55:55
him anyway. I don't.
55:59
I don't know who's too far left for me, but well, hey, it's good
56:04
talking to you again. Here's to let's let's hope for
56:06
World Peace. I'm not super confident, but
56:10
super hopeful. Yeah, let's see where we're at
56:13
next week. All right.
56:15
Thanks. Good talking to you.
56:16
See you. Hey, thanks for joining us on
56:21
this episode of Bourbon and Rum Podcast.
56:23
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56:26
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56:29
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56:32
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56:38
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