Latest / Business Roundtable / The Power of Trust Vision, and Priorities in Leadership

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The Power of Trust Vision, and Priorities in Leadership · Business Roundtable

0:00
Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm super excited I've got a brand
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new guest here on the podcast. Uh, doctor Jennifer Brown. I'm going
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to give you she's gonna introduce herself in a moment. But doctor Jennifer Brown
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and I have met. We had a common connection in cal Poly Pomona where
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I went to school, and she served in a leadership role and a let
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her talk more about that. And as we were talking as helping and equipping
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leaders in transition, I was asking Jennifer about this and I said, you
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know, You've got so many great ideas and insights, and I see your
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post on LinkedIn and I'm just like there, I just your voice needs to
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be heard in this Business Roundtable podcast. Is just a great opportunity to have
0:43
you come on and share with us. And so we're going to talk about
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transition and how do we build trust quickly, how to create that vision setting
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priorities for your if you're a business owner or a leader. And so I'm
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super excited to ask you a lot of these questions, Jennifer. But since
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you're new to the podcast and just coming on here, please give us your
1:03
background and where you came from and what you're doing today and would just love
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to hear from you. So welcome, Thank you, David. I'm so
1:10
happy to be here today. So let's see. I am a former higher
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education executive. I was previously the provost and vice president of academic Affairs at
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cal Poly Pomona. I was there for eighteen months and I oversaw nine colleges
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various aspects of the academic enterprise of that institution. Before that, I was
1:34
an administrator at UC Riverside and I was the vice provost and dean of undergraduate
1:38
education and spend a lot of time during the pandemic helping technologically to enhance and
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get students ready to come back, get faculty to come back and be ready,
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and so we did a lot of technological innovations that I'm very proud of.
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But that stint of my career was about and success. Before that,
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I was at Oregon State and I was the vice pargos and dean of the
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graduate school and focused a lot on making sure that there was a completion of
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graduate degrees. And before that, I was a professor at Purdue for eleven
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years. So from the time I earned my PhD to now I've been in
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academia, and one thing remains the same throughout, whether it was teaching classes
2:29
or it was working through complex problems within an organization. I realized that I've
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always wanted to help people, that I've always wanted to leave places better than
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how I found them. I love the development and mentorship and I get to
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do that now in this role as the CEO and founder of north Star Consulting
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Solutions. Yeah. Oh man, it's so exciting and hearing your journey and
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you and I have a similar path and we both create our own agencies here
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of helping individuals, and so you know, my passion is similar in yours
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of helping organizations bring the teams together to what I call it accomplished great things.
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And so it's so great that we're going to talk about this area of
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transition because there's so many people that have this and how do they do it
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well? Right? Because you can do it. There's different ways you can
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do it and be successful or have challenges and make maybe get a little easier
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on yourself. Right. Yeah, And and for those of you that haven't
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found Jennifer, look up doctor Jennifer Brown on LinkedIn. She's great north Star
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and I'm on there too. We're happy to connect with you. She's been
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so great. I reached out to her and she's been so gracious and giving
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me feedback as well. And so we come here at what I love about
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the Business Around Table podcast. It's just a way to give back and to
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give people an opportunity to hear from you and others on this and and so
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as people listen, we readily respond. So as you as we go through
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the questions and topics today, please do not hesitate to reach out and connect.
4:05
So, but that all said, I mean, so you've you've helped
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students and now you're looking to help other leaders in transition, you know.
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And again I love your posts and what you're sharing in there, Jennifer,
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And so what we we One of the things you and I were talking about
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is when you're setting into a new role, a new position, and maybe
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maybe people know you, maybe they don't know you, but you know,
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you talked about why building trust quickly is important, and you know, trust
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obviously is a cornerstone of relationship, but you know, maybe sometimes they don't
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always think about that as first they've got an agenda they want to go in
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there and do things want to change some things up right, And I know
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you've you just talked about different places where you had to come in and a
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fairly at a very high level in leadership, completely different organizations, even though
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it's academia, right, there's different players in there, and so we can
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you share with us, you know why it's important to build that trust quickly
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and and just you know your experience in that absolutely well. And you know,
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I think about that's one of the reasons why I went backwards in the
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roles. Yeah, sure that there was a fair amount of transition, although
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that first stint as a professor was I was there for eleven years. But
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you're exactly right. There's a difference between leaders who maybe are promoted and now
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have to work with folks who are once peers. There's a difference between going
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from one institution to another and needing to understand the culture as well as learn
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new people. In the hierarch you go, there are more folks who know
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you and that you have to learn each individual. And so there are layers
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within that organization well, whether it's higher education or it's you know, a
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manufacturing plant, or it's a service business. We all have certain goals that
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we're trying to achieve, right, it's the purpose of going to that company
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outside of the mission and division, and it's really important that we enhand sufficiency
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and productivity. So trust one is important because it gives an avenue for increasing
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or I'm gonna say it in a way of if we think about a car
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and you think about just going under the hood, right, we need that
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oil to flow through the engine. Right, So trust is that oil that
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helps to make things work smoothly. We're looking for folks to be comfortable when
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they receive responsibilities, when we're looking at just different directives that we need to
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help other folks move towards a common goal. And when we don't have trust,
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we're more likely to not take initiative, we're more likely to not solve
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problems, we're more likely to not share that we don't understand the direction in
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which someone is going or the company or the division, the unit. And
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so it's really important to reduce misunderstandings. Think about the need for excessive explanation
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or justifications, and it's less second guessing of motives or capabilities. We're clear
7:23
and we're concise, we know where we're going, we can ask questions,
7:27
we feel that we can be heard by our supervisor and those above us.
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And so for that point alone, enhancing efficiency and productivity is important. The
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second one that I will the second thought I have about trust is just innovation
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and risk taking. And when you don't have trust, you don't have that
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innovation right right, We're looking for people to be psychologically safe to propose new
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ideas, and in order to propose new ideas, we have to brainstorm.
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We have to be vulnerable and share ideas where people could say, you know,
8:03
that is ridiculous. Why don't we even play something like that? Uh,
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be confident that even if your idea is not adopted, that you are
8:13
not ostracized, that folks know that you're bringing your best effort forward. And
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so that's where we're looking to foster a culture of innovation creative thinking by building
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trust. Mm hmmmm hmm. Yeah. Those are so I mean, so
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that's so important. That was what I'm hearing you say is if you're not
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building that trust and you're coming in thinking, oh, I'm going to do
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all these great things, but you don't have the trust and the reliance of
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the people that you need to get things done. You're not going to make
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be as effective and not going be effective, you know, So with that,
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what would be you know, so you you we're relaying this foundation you
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want to come in, We want to build that trust. We understand that.
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But then what are some strategies that you've used in that because you've got
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different like at different parties, different politics. Culture. Number one, just
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evaluating where the trust level is, because you may come into an organization where
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the trust level is low just before you even get in the door, right,
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So that's even more of a challenge. And hopefully you could evaluate and
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the trust is already there in the culture. But what are some strategies that
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you would suggest as somebody transitioning into that kind of get the layer of the
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land and to start to figure out, Okay, how do I start to
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build this trust? Yeah? Well, I think the first thing that you
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can do, and actually actually made a post about this this morning, is
9:33
about listening. And I think in that post I said something like one of
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the most important tools that you have as a new leader, it's the pair
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of ears that you have because you're listening in your your listening and working through
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nuances. So You're listening for what is being said and what is not being
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said. You're listening for how people behave and react to certain sitution situations.
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When either you are giving a set of directives or you're watching the interpersonal dynamics
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play out between a particular group of people on the team, you are looking
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for the unwritten rules within the organization that are not written down in the manual.
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Right. You often look for the person when you're a new leader,
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who comes to you first and says, hey, let me give you the
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lay of the land. As wonderful as that may be, sometimes that may
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be the person who is looking to score favor. At times, not always,
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but sometimes they're looking to score favor. And so when I'm thinking about
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you know, proactive active listening, giving full attention to conversations, asking thoughtful
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follow up questions, summarizing and reflecting back on what you've heard, you're also
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thinking about how to be transparent and honest. People don't know you don't know
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them, and you're trying to engage and figure out what are the rules of
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engagement between you and that person the team, And so you want to to
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what extent you can share information openly, including some of the challenges. You
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want to empower people to share information and when, when and if perhaps they
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don't share, that is again a clue as to what is going on with
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the culture. So there are lots of things you can do. I think
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you want to be consistent as a leader, right, so you want to
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online your words with your actions. You want to maintain a stable mood and
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behavior, And I'll share with you that you know as a leader, one
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of the things I learned from a mentor and a colleague at Oregon State was
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you have to go into every meeting as if it is the first meeting of
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the day, right, regardless of what has happened, what is transpired.
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There's news that maybe you didn't know you were going to receive. There's an
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emergency situation. Each group and each person deserves their undivided attention so that you
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can practice that active listening so that you can hear what's not being said.
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So there's a lot that goes into building trust, you know, and we
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hope we can do it quickly, but it starts with the heart of listening.
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One thing you said I think is important. You talked about vulnerability and
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being as open as you can sometimes I hear especially those that are early in
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coming into leadership positions or maybe earlier in their career and haven't done is it
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seasoned? Is they feel like maybe they have to know it all or have
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all the answers, And I feel like that's you know, a mistake or
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a pitfall will get more a little bit into the Okay, could you speak
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to that, because encouraging those folks is they feel like, I'm coming into
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the position I have to know it all. People are looking at me,
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and I have to have all the right the answers. I got to figure
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this out. And so I don't want to show quote unquote vulnerability, but
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maybe could you share like your experience in how you overcame that. Absolutely,
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I think there's power in knowing what you don't know. And of course everything
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is situational, so there are times where you want to be careful and thoughtful.
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Well, you want to be careful in thoughtful all the time, but
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there are times where you don't want to incite fear, you know. So
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there is a time and place for everything. But as you're getting to know
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your team in particular, and team could be lateral folks, that could be
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people that report up to you that could be your particular supervisor. You have
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to be comfortable in what you know, right, And so I guess what
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I would share with folks who are going into new roles. Take an assessment
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based on whatever that situation is, on what your expertise is. Won't be
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afraid to bring people into a particular scenario or a situation to hear from them.
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One thing I will say is it's all in how you frame it.
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I wouldn't go in saying I don't know anything about that, right, but
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maybe here are the things that I do know, or here's the information that
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has been given to me right now, and now I need your help,
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you know, with whomever that team is in helping me put together the pieces
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of the puzzle so that we can have the information we need to make the
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decision or make the next step, knowing that you won't always you rarely have
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perfect information, right. So it's really about grounding and I think that's you
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know, something that just sitting back and reflecting, or if you have an
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executive coach. That's one of the things that we help folks do is to
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figure out what are your strengts, what are things that you might want to
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develop in those particular areas, and you're looking for an opportunity to just be
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able to assess the situation in where you need buy in and help from other
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folks. Mm hmm. That's that's you're hitting on my other podcast, the
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Intelligent Human Leadership Podcast, which is know yourself to lead yourself and your teams.
15:09
But that that is important. I think you're right. You know,
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sometimes people have they've invested a lot in their technical skills and they're know how
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how to do certain things. We're talking about people here. We're not talking
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about a machine or something, right, We're talking about building trust with people,
15:24
human beings that are varied. And so if like you're saying, if
15:28
you're not knowing yourself well and you know your strengths or limitations and you're not
15:33
confident in those, and it's going to be harder, like you said,
15:35
to build trust because you're like, if I feel like I have to be
15:37
everything, that's going to be really a big challenge, right, right,
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and the right questions, knowing how to get the information that you need and
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trusting your inner self some people call good feeling, because again, you'll never
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have the perfect set of information, and what are the criteria for what you
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are comfortable with? How you know when will you make a decision? I'll
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share really quickly. I believe some people who work with me can back this
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up that one of my gifts was the ability to make decisions on incomplete information.
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And that doesn't mean that I would jump the gun, but there are
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some folks who maybe need Let's say, if there were ten puzzle pieces,
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they need nine or they need eight, I could look at two to four
16:30
of them and figure out in which context we needed to go. But I
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think that also goes back to having a set of principles, and that's why
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the name of my company is north Star Consulting Solutions. You have to know
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your why, you have to know your values. You have to know what
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are the things that are driving the organization towards a specific situation, goal,
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et cetera. And if you use a combination of those things to come to
17:03
the final decision regardless of the amount of information that you have in front of
17:07
you. Absolutely, and we're going to get to that in just a bit
17:11
here because I want to get did more into priorities and vision as well.
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But is there as we're talking at building this trust And is there other things
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that you've seen, whether either it was you or other people, that there's
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maybe some common pitfalls or other things we need to avoid or watch out for.
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And or you know what, we made the mistake, right, it
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just happens, and we have a breach of trust or at least perceived for
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you know, it's perceived that way or take it. So, how do
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we avoid these pitfalls if we can altogether, or if we've if we've you
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know, stumbled, how do we recover quickly to restore that relationship? Absolutely?
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Well, some mistakes I think to avoid are overpromising and under delivering.
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Right, So people bring information to you and I can do that, I
17:59
can do that. Right, It's really about again assessing what's in front of
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you, whether you have the resources to do it, whether you have the
18:07
people to do it, and being honest and open about yes, I can
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do that or I can do that, but not in this timeline. And
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here's why I need these particular you know, resources. So you don't want
18:21
to make commitments that you can't keep because that goes against your credibility. You
18:25
don't want to set unrealistic expectations, and especially if you are leading the team
18:30
right where you're saying yes to something, but the folks below you are the
18:34
ones who might have to orchestrate that work, right, you don't want to
18:40
bring them out to dry. And you go back to them and you say,
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yeah, I told such and such, you know, the president,
18:45
the you know, the CEO, whoever it is, the vice president,
18:49
that we could do this no problem, when people are going, wait a
18:52
minute, you know we don't have this, this, and this. So
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that brings me to another point, tangently related as knowing a team right,
19:00
and it's so important to know who's working with you and for you and working
19:07
alongside you. Another mistake to avoid with trust, I think is withholding important
19:11
information. Sometimes people do that willingly, maybe sometimes it is, you know,
19:22
a mistake for whatever reason, but not being transparent about the challenges or
19:26
issues and just kind of leading folks into battle and saying you know, it's
19:32
going to be fine. You don't want to do that. That's going to
19:33
destroy credibility and trust. The other thing I'll say is micromanaging, right.
19:41
It is a derailer. It is something that goes against everything that we're talking
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about in terms of motivating and empowering and whether you're showing a lack of faith
19:52
and other's ability or the need to jump in, not giving folks to autonomy
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to do the work that they need to do. I think that that goes
20:02
against trust. Now, when you've done something like this, let's say that
20:06
it's not intentional and maybe you just you know, you spoke too soon,
20:11
or yes, something happens. This is where we show where integrity and authenticity
20:17
comes out. We're going to take responsibility for it, We're going to apologize
20:21
for it. We're going to explain what happened if that's appropriate. Right.
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So, there are a couple of things we can do. I think all
20:26
of these. Again, we can't hide behind the shell as a leader.
20:32
There is no manual. We're going to make mistakes, yep, and if
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we do, we have to own them and share that they were mistakes.
20:40
Yeah. No, I agree. It's the quicker you can own it,
20:42
the better. In fact, I just talked about that in my other podcast
20:47
I just released today. It's kind of like, what is the code that
20:51
you live by, what's your your integrity and make sure that you recognize when
20:56
you're out of integrity right and own it intead of trying to deflect it,
21:00
just recognize it as quickly as you can and then you know, work to
21:04
remedy the situation. And so this is great. So we've grow a good
21:11
foundation on like building trust, getting that in place. So let's say you're
21:15
the leader. You've got that going for You've got the trust factor going and
21:19
now we're like, okay, where are we going? Where are we going?
21:23
This that you're in a leader, right, you are, any level
21:26
in the leadership, in my opinion, you have to create some kind of
21:30
vision. There's obviously a larger maybe organizational vision that you're aligning with. What
21:33
is your vision for whoever you're leading, whatever the group that you're a part
21:37
of, Right, So could you share with us kind of your background there
21:41
coming in number one? Identifying whatever the organization's vision is, and how do
21:48
you marry that with your own vision of coming in and why that's essential?
21:52
Yeah? Absolutely, Well, you know, as you were asking the question,
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I was thinking, no matter who we are, whether we're the president
22:00
of a higher ed institution or where the president of a fortune five hundred company,
22:07
we all answer to someone, right, and whoever it is that we
22:11
answer to, more than likely they have a set of guiding principles. They
22:17
have hopefully a strategic plan or some document that guides the principles of that organization.
22:25
And so hopefully, in doing your homework and preparing for this role,
22:30
you know, the interview that got you the job, you have looked at
22:33
some of those documents and you are teasing out as you're interviewing where folks stand
22:40
now. I recall in one of my roles as a leader preparing and doing
22:47
these things that we're talking about. And one of the first things I had
22:49
to do is when I got that role, was actually assessed where folks were.
22:55
So lots of folks were talking about a strategic plan. There's a strategic
22:57
plan. Great, can you tell me what are the metrics that you have
23:03
you know, actually implemented on this strategic plan. That's important. So one
23:07
of the things is what are the formal documents that are there already and making
23:12
sure you understand those. I'm hoping that as you go into this role,
23:18
you have assessed already whether your core values aligned with that company. So that's
23:23
a you know, maybe a secondary piece to how do you start a vision?
23:29
I think I talked about active listening to build trust but you also have
23:33
to assess where the organization, the unit that you're leading, where they are,
23:40
what are they what do they do well? What are they missing?
23:45
Where they having challenges with? What are the things that they were so excited
23:51
that you were coming because you could help them with And you have to take
23:56
you know, sometimes it's thirty sixty ninety days to assess some of those.
24:00
Now, another thing you could do. I talk about listening tours, and
24:04
I know sometimes those become old and stale, and so I'm going to say
24:10
a spectrum. You have to do some sort of listening to understand the organization
24:15
and the people. And as you're assessing what is needed, you're also strategizing
24:22
at the same time, aligning where you need to go with what resources are
24:27
available, Aligning you know, maybe asking for some questions or pushing back respectfully
24:33
on things that you know there aren't resources to work with. So it's really
24:38
about coming in listening and learning the organization, mapping up what you know about
24:45
your unit with what the larger organizational documents or strategic directions are, really getting
24:52
to know your teams, getting to know your stakeholders. I didn't really talk
24:56
about that assessing dynamic and performance. Once you've done that, and it can
25:03
vary. Sometimes you can do that very quickly. If it's more complex and
25:07
there are lots of things that have been going on, it may take up
25:11
to six months to do this. But once you get that done, you
25:15
can then act and innovate. Right you're presenting long term visions or maybe testing
25:18
that out with your team, your core leadership team, ye are implementing you
25:25
know, larger strategic initiatives, evaluating progress and so it's all a delicate dance
25:33
constantly, you know, putting things out there and seeing how folks are able
25:38
to meet those goals based on what you're doing. But that's generally, you
25:44
know what I've done in each of my positions as a leader. Yeah,
25:49
that's a great You've kind of broken it down some steps that we can take
25:52
and how to create the vision, looking at that, engaging in the team.
25:56
What I heard you say is that the timetable it takes and in correct.
26:03
My experience is when you have transition of leaders on a fairly regular basis,
26:10
it's difficult because you kind of have this storm of people and things come
26:12
in and so it's like we turn it up again and then it's like,
26:15
oh, I thought we did it. So I think it's important the organizations
26:18
recognize, you know, there's you know, when you do bring in a
26:22
new leader, it's going to, like you said, you've got to give
26:26
it time to settle, and you've got to be careful about continual churn of
26:30
your leadership team. If you don't have that, it's gonna you're kind of
26:33
what you're been experience. And I'm sure you've seen that, Jennifer. People
26:36
kind of come in and out and you're like, well, we're trying to
26:37
create this vision. We're trying to do the street you plan, but now
26:40
we've got this person, can this this dean, this department head whatever,
26:42
It's all differ people coming in, right, and so it's like and they
26:45
got to ask the questions what's going on here? So it can really,
26:48
my experience, can stall your momentum. Yes, yeah, some people burn
26:53
out so quickly, right. I mean, there's a lot of energy that
26:57
goes into picking the new leader, regardless of whether it's in higher ed or
27:00
it's you know, a nonprofit or it's a small business. Folks want to
27:07
generally do a good job, right, and so they're they're revving up and
27:11
they want to show you what they've done, and they are so proud of
27:14
the progress that they've made, and they're looking for this person to have this
27:18
unique perspective right that guides them forward. And as you mentioned, David,
27:25
when there is a lot of churn, well then they have to drop everything
27:27
they were doing and start that momentum all over again, and it becomes taxing.
27:33
So hopefully, you know, as folks are thinking strategically but also intentionally
27:41
about what they're trying to accomplish and whether their division unit organization has what it
27:48
takes, has those resources to actually move that company forward. Yeah, I
27:56
mean so I love how you Yeah, yeah, you should definitely looking at
28:00
those documents. I've had this conversation. Maybe you had this to Jennifer,
28:03
like you said, you pull, let's look at your strategy, playing your
28:06
vision and maybe some of the high level secs or somebody that might know that
28:10
very well. But you ask some other people like you said below, you
28:12
like, what is what's that? I don't know. I haven't looked at
28:15
it, I don't talked about it. It's like what we what are we
28:18
try trying to hear? So can you talk to like like that, really,
28:21
how do we effectively communicate the vision? Right? How do we keep
28:23
that alive because, like you said, it doesn't they've lost relevance to the
28:30
people that are supposed to be qute unquote implementing it. Yeah, that's a
28:33
great question. So I think there are lots of different ways to do this.
28:37
Sometimes you can have retreats, and I know some people roll their eyes
28:41
when they hear like, oh my gosh, you know another off side or
28:42
we need to go do this, but there is there is something about coming
28:48
together to either reaffirm the goals, you know, to talk about the strategic
28:56
plan. Okay, I know that folks are doing their every day day to
28:59
day, but let's talk about what is the bigger purpose and why we are
29:03
working, you know, why we even exist each of our goals right,
29:07
And so there's an opportunity to come together and to do some team building and
29:11
to really think about what is your individual role and how does that contribute to
29:18
the overall goal of the institution. I think there's something there. Another way
29:22
to do that is in team meetings. Right as you're addressing your direct leadership
29:29
team, it's important to talk about the why which we talk about all the
29:33
time, especially in change management. But I'm a firm believer that as a
29:38
leader, the vulnerable and authentic self, the humanistic self, has to lead.
29:45
You have to, in my opinion, only you have to be in
29:51
tune with your folks and when you're able to draw out the why either for
29:59
them, especially if they're subordinates, now if they're stakeholders and different team members.
30:04
Again, one strategy that I've used is figuring out by asking them questions
30:14
directly, what is a win for them? And so maybe one of the
30:18
first things that I do as a leader is I go after something that will
30:23
help to benefit another unit or some unit within my unit, but showing that
30:32
I'm not out for myself or for my unit, but that I see how
30:34
all pieces of the puzzle come together. Right. So, there are different
30:40
ways you can do the offsite retreat. You recapitulate those goals and team meetings.
30:48
You can have individual one on one conversations where you are drawing out what's
30:55
important to the individual employee and then tying that to the goal. There are
31:00
many ways to do this. Yeah, no, I I agree, Jennifer.
31:03
I think we want to be one way. I remember we did this.
31:07
At my previous one of the previous claps I worked with, we were
31:11
down here in southern California, Armin offices up in Sacramento, and so what
31:15
I really appreciated was the president of the company would come down and visit our
31:18
local offices. It meant a lot to me as a worker, like,
31:22
Oh, what's what's kind of the higher up vision for that? And when
31:26
that when that person left, I lost that connection. I lost that vision,
31:32
and so it was harder for me to like wanting to stay in an
31:34
organization. And so to me it's so important. Now this isn't for everybody,
31:40
but there's certain people with the organisations really grab on to what's the vision,
31:44
what's this bigger picture? And I've actually found it quite honestly, as
31:47
I've done a lot of work with uh, you know, the twenty somethings,
31:51
right, they're particularly attuned to this more in the in the marketplace,
31:56
and I've seen and so they're more apt to leave an organized if you're not
32:00
being intentional with comm hating that vision. Now, we have all different age
32:05
demographics. We talked about this in the podcast before, different things to motivate
32:07
folks. But I've just noticed that. I don't know if you've seen that,
32:10
but there's a hunger a little bit more. Yeah, right, yeah,
32:16
well, and I've seen it in different facets. You know. One
32:20
of the things that I thought about is you were saying that was just you
32:24
know, I'm a parent. I'm a single mom of a thirteen year old
32:29
young lady, and I talk a lot to her about the why. In
32:34
fact, she is a dual immersion student. She's going to be a freshman
32:37
in high school and she has been taking dual emersion Spanish, where she reads,
32:44
writes, speaks Spanish fluently since first grade. Well during the pandemic.
32:50
She said, this is hard, and she gave me a little attitude and
32:53
she even said, you know, you don't speak Spanish. You don't know
32:57
how hard this is. And I kind of shared with her, here's the
33:00
end goal, here's what I'm trying to get you towards. Here's how I
33:04
think it's going to broaden your future, and you know, and she,
33:07
of course, technically Mom made the decision, but it was great to have
33:13
her buy in where she goes, oh, you know, I see from
33:17
A to B where we're trying to go, and yes, Mom and so
33:20
when it got tough, she was able to hang in there. And you
33:23
know she's now going for her sale of by literacy the other you know,
33:30
when I just think about what it takes to keep things going and build trust,
33:36
et cetera, I just I think it's really important for us to always
33:40
hone in on understanding other folks motivations. And it doesn't mean that we're cowering
33:47
or that we are letting people walk over us, but we are mapping out
33:53
people's motivations and not in a in a manipulative way, but in a way
34:01
that is humanistic and brings out the best in each of the folks that we
34:07
work with. Right, So there's there's always an opportunity for us to think
34:10
about what's the why. How do I take what I know is important to
34:17
one person and map that on to the goals of another, Listening for feedback,
34:22
you know, helping them prepare you for potential arguments that you need to
34:29
make up the chain or you know, sideways. So it's you know,
34:34
it's it's been very beneficial in many of the roles that I've been in,
34:39
and and it's really I mean, you know, not a king or a
34:45
queen or even a president. But I will say that it would be great,
34:50
right if we have more folks to think about what motivates the employees as
34:54
opposed to, you know, just the common stick that we so often see.
35:00
Yeah. No, you've hit so many great points here, Jennifer.
35:01
Number one. I wanted to honor you as I'm a parent, to honor
35:05
this because what you said is, well, how we show up in the
35:07
business, it goes into our personal life just as well. So if we
35:10
can effectively lead our organization, we can lead our family and point to that
35:15
vision. So it's this is very transferable, very important skills. So I
35:19
don't want to honor that. And I've seen the same thing and I agree.
35:23
We've actually talked in previous podcasts up. It was one of the very
35:25
first ones we talked about understanding your leadership voice. I'm sort of a giant
35:30
worldwide. We understand how your leadership voice shows up. So as you said
35:32
that, they just cues it clude me in because our just reinforces that what
35:37
you is that whether whatever the framework you use, if you five voices or
35:42
there's different there's different assessments out there, but it's really understanding, like you
35:45
said, what motivates me is going to be different potentially in your team.
35:51
And so what happens I found, Jennifer, is you have people that there's
35:57
a preferred way that they like to show up. And obvious, honestly it's
36:00
better for us to get them in their preferred way of being that they're empowered.
36:02
Right. But then there's also organizations say well, we want to show
36:06
show you up in this way, like to present a certain behavior, and
36:09
it's not really an alignment. And so it's hard to maintain, like you
36:12
said burnout earlier. Right, if you're saying, well, I only show
36:15
you a business and you're like, I'm not motivated the way, but this
36:16
is the way we want to do it, it's hard, right, And
36:22
it's just that's challenging, you know. So I want to lead into our
36:27
our kind of a last segment here uh the podcast, because we've talked about
36:31
the vision, we've talked about building trust. Now we've got to get priorities.
36:34
We have to get stuff done, Like we've got all these competing things.
36:37
Right, Hey, this's got done. And I just talked about this
36:39
in another podcast. Because we have maybe short term things we got to get
36:43
done and there's a longer term vision that we've got to do, and we've
36:45
got how do we balance all those things? So you're a leader, you're
36:49
coming in and why is it important then to you know, look and prioritize.
36:55
I mean, it seems a lot, It seems you know, straightforward,
36:58
but you know, what is this about achieving the vision? Priorities?
37:00
Like? How? Yeah? Why is that critical? What has been your
37:05
experience there? Yeah? Well, I think part of the criticality of priorities
37:13
is we're all here to achieve some goal. And maybe achieve is not the
37:17
right word, but we're all here to move some goal forward, right,
37:22
And the higher up you go in leadership, the more you have fire after
37:29
fire that competes with your and your time. And that's where going back to
37:34
understanding where your north star is your why why you chose to do this work.
37:40
So for example, for me, in my previous world as provosts or
37:45
even as vice provosts and dean, it was never about the title. It
37:49
was always about helping to lead an institution, to empower folks, to help
37:54
them with innovation too. And it's not helped as an they needed my help
38:00
per se, But it was to knock down the doors so that they could
38:07
have an easier time achieving what they needed to achieve, right. And so
38:13
I think that it's always about understanding what is the number one goal? Because
38:19
we're all going to be assessed on something. What's the number one goal we
38:22
need to achieve? What's the number one priority? If something comes in that
38:28
is a we'll say level five is the highest a level five fire, where
38:35
does that number one priority go? Does it go on the bench? Do
38:38
you have to juggle both? And I think that's important because you also need
38:44
to explain to again your team, your stakeholders, folks that you work within
38:49
that organization, how and why you continue to move in one direction versus another
38:57
right, or if you're asking people to stretch, you're asking them to take
39:00
on more than what they normally would. The why again becomes important having conversations
39:07
with folks to talk about what they can take off their plate momentarily, what
39:15
or no, you can't. And I understand this is painful, but when
39:19
we get to the other side, here are the things that we will have
39:22
accomplished. Right. And So for me, a big piece of priorities and
39:28
understanding where we need to go is what folks commonly call OKRs subjectives and key
39:34
results, right, and thinking about what are the overarching objectives, defining what
39:38
the measurable key result is for each of those objectives, having a couple of
39:44
scenarios plan A, B and C and probably DDF as well, because you
39:51
have to think in parallels. It's never going to go exactly the way that
39:54
you've planned it, and so how do you account for the contention andcies that
40:00
we know are just a factor of life. And then the other method that
40:06
I use, which is really a simplistic one, right, some people use
40:08
the abc D method assign a letter to a task or A I must do
40:13
B, I should do C. That's nice to do B. I'm going
40:17
to delegate that E. I'm going to eliminate it. And so those are
40:22
the two things. But you know, again it goes back to I'm a
40:24
firm believer. Know the organization, know your people, know what the organization
40:31
is trying to put You know what are they trying to accomplish? What is
40:37
the number one, number two, number three goal. Having conversations with your
40:42
supervisor, your stakeholders, and your team when things start to I don't want
40:49
to say to realize in you know, they just have gone to puts.
40:52
But more when there are other inputs that come into the equation, you know,
40:58
you have to keep people up and help them understand and know what's happening.
41:02
So prioritization is important because again it's just a matter of life that that
41:08
there are going to be other variables that compete, get in the way,
41:15
spring up and become friend and we ultimately have to continue some sort of momentum
41:22
in knowing what to pick up, what to keep moving, what to drop
41:27
is going to ultimately be important as a leader and to help motivate your team
41:30
and certainty. Right you talked about this earlier in communication or sharing new information,
41:37
because that new information if you're if you're not, if you're not,
41:40
if you you can't assume maybe everyone understands that. So if there's new information
41:45
that's come to light, right you know, and or or either you have
41:50
it or somebody else has it, having a two way dialogue, right of
41:53
like, well I didn't I didn't understand that the the liberal got pushed off
41:58
two weeks, So then we'd why you working so hard on that deliverable?
42:01
And we have and there's another thing burning and I think sometimes people don't always
42:06
understand this is where a leader needs to come in right and help the team
42:08
because other there's new information that comes to light. So what have you done
42:13
there where you know that has happened with your team where like there's been new
42:16
information, there's you know, some things come in and so then the priority
42:22
does need how do you how have you done that so where the party has
42:24
been shifted? An example of like this in your experiences, especially especially for
42:30
I like to hear because you have some big initiative. I'm sure when you're
42:32
working in academic you've got some big ones and those are so far out there.
42:36
Sometimes you know, it's like when do we take action on there's new
42:39
information or so we should work on this, and then when you know when
42:43
to back off? What what's kind of that for you? Yeah, well,
42:47
I one particular item comes to mind that was recent where there was an
42:54
initiative, we got some new information, changed the landscape of the project.
43:02
And what I like to do is talk with the folks who are in my
43:08
immediate circle. In that particular organization or a dynamic, you had a provost
43:16
and an associate provost or some people will call it a provost and a vice
43:21
provost. I usually talk to that particular group and you know, just kind
43:25
of map out some things, listen acts for, you know, ask for
43:31
feedback. How are certain people gonna absorb the information? Uh? And once
43:38
I have a good you know, once I got a once I have a
43:44
good feel for for some key pushback or or even yeah that sounds good,
43:51
I usually like to call an all hands meeting with my direct leadership team,
43:57
and this is where I share here are the developments here. You know,
44:02
I love remind you where we were going, Here's why we were going there,
44:07
here are the developments that have occurred. Let's talk about how these developments
44:12
impact your areas so that I can collectively hear and if I need to go
44:17
back to my superior and talk about those things or the stakeholders who it might
44:24
affect. So it's it's really always about direct communication and then we together figure
44:32
out how to share that information in a way that again doesn't inside a riot,
44:40
you know, because because the things that are coming down the pipe in
44:47
those types of leadership positions, they're never a manual answer, right, It's
44:53
never something that you could just look up in the manual and go, oh
44:57
yeah, if a happens, then we're going to do beers. See it's
45:00
always and that's where I really enjoyed and thrived and looking for outside of the
45:07
box answers, thinking about you know, different inputs and variables, being creative
45:14
and innovative, but that's different. Yeah yeah, but no, I love
45:17
how you brought that up because I've worked I've done so much project management over
45:21
the years, and then sometimes I work with project managers, they're just they're
45:25
going and they they they've got their mission and they're going and they're not like
45:29
thinking about like oh, maybe new information is or just keep going, and
45:31
they're like hold on, like you said, pause, Maybe not everybody on
45:36
the whole project or the team, but we do need to get like a
45:37
reset. So I think that's a real practical reminder for folks, you know,
45:44
to hit the pause button in that time planning and reassessing will pay dividends
45:50
in the long way, as opposed to maybe just you charging ahead right and
45:52
you're like, oh, man, if I would have paused because it's counterintuitive
45:58
or like I'm stopping or I'm pausing, but yes you are, but you
46:01
know this will actually help you in the long run, make sure you're actually
46:06
being truly effective. Sometimes we're focused on efficiencies, you know, I mean
46:10
being efficient. I'm moving forward, but efficient for what? Yeah, and
46:14
how can you be efficient? And if all of your employees are broke down,
46:17
if all of your employees have lost their motivation, right, and so
46:22
again we're all just trying to do our best work hopefully, you know.
46:27
So yeah, if I work I work with I've worked with one you know
46:32
client. And the other thing I found was they use a system called asana.
46:37
There's there's all different times out there. But what happened was it was
46:40
like it just the the priory. They just got everything just got piled and
46:45
piled and piled. And it was like I'm like, do you talk with
46:47
your team kind of but not really and so there's a lot of burnout or
46:52
frustration, like I don't know what the priority is because it's all they're all
46:57
like do today, And so there's there's a lot of stress there where it's
47:00
like, Okay, how do we then, like I said, together as
47:06
a team prioritized Because what happens is somebody decides this is where I've seen a
47:10
pitfall of leader or anybody in that project management, they're like they're making decisions
47:15
kind of in a vacuum, and they're like, oh, I need these
47:19
people to help be on this project. So let's just say they pull resources
47:22
in the organization help them. And they're like, oh my goodness. The
47:23
other project is like I needed that other thing done and this was and that
47:28
was an actual higher party, but they didn't know. And so you've got
47:30
this whole kind of cluster of you know, collapsing because they're not communicating with
47:36
each other. And so it's one thing, like you said, to set
47:37
your own own priorities, but then if things change, you have to bring
47:40
in these other, like you said earlier, stakeholders where they're external or internal.
47:45
Right, And David, I think that, you know, I hope
47:49
that folks who are listening to the podcast doesn't think, oh, well,
47:52
she's a fansy. She can't get things done. You know. I I
47:57
have a very high threshold for wanting to get things done and work achievement.
48:02
But my philosophy is based on thinking about human right, humanist and authentic leadership,
48:15
thinking about what motivates folks. You know, if you think about Herbsberg's
48:19
theory of motivating and hygiene factors, right, and the hygiene factors are just
48:23
baseline things that people need in their organizations in order to not be dissatisfied.
48:30
It doesn't mean that they become satisfied. It just sets the baseline. And
48:35
I've always wanted to make sure that we have the motivating factors. And that's
48:39
where I think it's so important to know who your folks are, what they
48:45
you know, And there are times where as a leader, you will have
48:46
to say Nope, not this time. Yes, I understand, but we
48:52
still need to keep moving. But if they know that you are one to
48:57
listen and that you hear them and that you do consider even if the answer
49:02
is not in their favor, they're more likely to continue to to really put
49:09
themselves full steam ahead into the organization. And I think that's what we all
49:15
want. Yeah, yeah, No, it comes across absolutely, Jennifer.
49:20
I mean, you're all of you have accomplished and you know I can see
49:22
that you're you're a woman that is passionate about getting things done and moving people
49:27
forward. Absolutely, and so no, these are things we've learned you both
49:30
and I and I think we want to hear people, to hear this that
49:32
by by slowing down a little bit and addressing this and planning, you're going
49:37
to actually achieve more. And so, like I you heard you say,
49:40
you're helping leaving people better off than when you came in and found them,
49:45
and and and so you're an empowered leader. That's what we're you and I
49:47
are. But that's what brings us together. We want to help people empowered,
49:51
be liberated in the way that they're they're serving others. And so this
49:55
is this has just been a great conversation. I mean, you're definitely gonna
49:59
have to come or have more on a round table because you and I have
50:01
There's some other great women leaders you and I've been talking with, and so
50:06
we've talked about having another another podcast with some other women leaders on here because
50:08
it's so important, I think, particularly you know, as I've talked with
50:15
young women coming into the workforce, Jennifer and seeing a woman to success to
50:20
navigate this. You're a mom, you're you know, you've navigated the system.
50:24
You know. I try to look you know, I'm trying to be
50:29
colorblind and look at everybody, but the reality is our world has different things,
50:31
right, and so how do you know I just want to number one,
50:35
commend you and say what do what a wonderful way to see you thrive
50:38
and create your own business. And I hope that I hope that people are
50:43
listening are encouraged by this, because sometimes I feel like people, you know,
50:46
when I've talked to having gotten back to cal Poly, I don't think
50:49
some people realize you can do this, you can be that leader, you
50:52
can and you know, empowering them. And so I think you just want
50:57
to say thank you Jennifer for coming on here and sharing with us. Just
51:00
I want to leave you an opportunity. What are some just key takeaways as
51:02
people as we're wrapping up, just as we've talked about these different elements from
51:07
trust to vision to priorities, that you'd want to leave the listeners today.
51:12
Yeah, absolutely, David, it has been an absolute pleasure. Some key
51:15
takeaways is, you know, if you don't know your strengths and know yourself,
51:22
I hope that you will think about investing in yourself where you can go
51:27
and talk with someone one on one, a person like David or myself.
51:31
YEP, that can help you through this particular process. It's something that I
51:36
enjoy and I love to see people spark right or to see their light bulk
51:42
go off. So it's really about knowing who you are as a person so
51:45
that you can come into leadership grounded. I think the second thing is about
51:52
really listening and understanding the organization and the folks that work with you, alongside
51:59
you, for you, and you know you're working for someone, and it's
52:02
really about understanding. Not asking you to be a psychologist, but I am
52:07
asking you to create authentic connections with the folks that you work with so that
52:14
you can understand what are the things that they need to be fulfilled and to
52:20
get their work done right, because it just can't be hey, we need
52:22
this, you know, yeah, we need this deliverable. It can't be
52:28
that. And then I think the third thing is find a system that works
52:32
for you. But it's very important to be clear and concise in your communication
52:38
and to prioritize at the same time, there will be pauses, there will
52:45
be you know, wrenches thrown into the mix that just changed the dynamic,
52:51
and you have to have that balance of being flexible enough to see when those
52:55
things enter the circumstance that you're in and how do you use that to then
53:02
guide folks where you need them to go so that you all can have the
53:07
you know, a positive and loan blasting result. Yeah. I love that.
53:12
Yeah. Yeah, So I just want to share, David, you
53:15
know, in this business that I've created, there are two buckets, and
53:20
one is a consulting bucket for at tech companies and folks who you know,
53:27
really need to think about change management, how to work with leaders, how
53:31
to you know, work with faculty as they're going through a change. And
53:36
then the other is the leadership development. And again, as a former higher
53:40
at executive, I've had to navigate all parts of the university. But I
53:46
really really I love it all because we can do at all. But I
53:52
love helping folks as they transition and really helping them think about, you know,
53:58
what's your role, who are your stakeholders, what do they mean?
54:02
You know, who's your team? So I hope that you know, whether
54:06
it's me or David or someone else, I hope that you think about the
54:09
role that an executive coach can play to help you as you move through your
54:15
leadership journey. Yeah. No, Jennifer, one hundred percent agree. And
54:19
I appreciate that that is a nuance and I think I was in that place
54:22
too, where I was transitioning to another leadership role and have somebody to ask
54:25
you some questions or just help prepare you going into an organization I think is
54:30
well worth it. And I agree with you it is an investment in yourself.
54:35
I think sometimes we invest in technical skills, but then we're not investing
54:39
in these skills, like you said, true leadership and developing who we are.
54:45
And I can tell you having invested tens of thousands of dollars over the
54:47
years, and it does pay dividends. And I'm sure you could say it
54:52
right, I mean, yeah, yeah, And I'm not saying that because
54:54
I have this business. I think my first coach was about nine years ago,
55:00
right in Leadership Institute, and You're exactly right. I think it was
55:06
the thing that propelled me and was able to help me gain the confidence that
55:12
I needed in some times. So you know, it's it's not because we're
55:17
wanting to benefit from it. It's actually the love of giving back to others
55:22
and wanting to see folks develop that makes this such a lucrative and fulfilling,
55:30
you know career. Yeah, and it's so great. Honestly, I think
55:34
you and I, Jennifer, come again become this this place that you could
55:37
have gone with another university, that I could have gone with one company,
55:39
but we realized we could help more people right in this, in this space.
55:45
And so as you're listening to this, I agree with Jennifer reach out
55:47
to us. In fact, Jennifer and are even talking about ways we can
55:50
collaborate together. We're both here in southern California, not too far from each
55:53
other. So if you're interested or your your company or group and you want
55:59
us to come and spe to speak to your organization, either one of us
56:02
or together, we're open to that. We had the Business round Table podcast
56:07
are all about collaboration and helping one another and helping you. So you know,
56:12
like I said, connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn, north Star Consulting right
56:16
and reach out to me. We're going to have you back again. Jennifer.
56:21
It's just so many great insights and I really appreciate you taking the time
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sharing your your vast experience with our listeners. This was great. Thank you
56:29
so much, David, You're welcome. Thanks everybody. Until next time,
56:32
take care, keep thriving in your business. Thanks everybody. By now