Transcript

Sharri | 7 April · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Why on Sky News this is Sharry Good Evening. Will
0:08
Speaker 1: tonight tumbling stock markets have sparked fears of a global recession.
0:12
Speaker 1: How will the erratic Trump effect influence our election campaign?
0:16
Speaker 1: I'll have more in just a moment. Also tonight, Albanezi's
0:20
Speaker 1: web of contradictions unravels. He's exposed as he scrambled to
0:25
Speaker 1: outmaneuver Dutton on the pot of Darwin announcement, and his
0:29
Speaker 1: bizarre denial of a stage fall only deepens questions around
0:34
Speaker 1: his credibility. Plus Chris Bowen's climate bill, why he's blown
0:38
Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty thousand dollars jet setting to ten countries, Well,
0:44
Speaker 1: you'd think he needs to answer questions about the climate
0:46
Speaker 1: emissions here, but he's not interested in any accountability, as
0:50
Speaker 1: one journalist from Channel seven discovered. And why hasn't that
0:55
Speaker 1: ABC covered the revised Gaza death toll. Israel's Unit Nation
1:00
Speaker 1: spokesman would join me live here in studio, But first,
1:05
Speaker 1: As we enter the second week of the campaign, the
1:08
Speaker 1: world teeters on the edge of a potential global recession.
1:12
Speaker 1: Stock markets have suffered their steepest plunge since the height
1:15
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, sending shockwaves through investor confidence and even
1:21
Speaker 1: igniting fears that new tariffs could trigger widespread defaults. This
1:26
Speaker 1: sudden economic turmoil couldn't have hit at a more politically
1:31
Speaker 1: sensitive time for us here in Australia, with political consequences
1:36
Speaker 1: as unpredictable as the events themselves. Right now, as we
1:41
Speaker 1: enter the second week, Dutton has fallen behind. The polls
1:46
Speaker 1: show Labor is perhaps in striking distance of winning government.
1:51
Speaker 1: This was a sobering reality check for the opposition leader
1:55
Speaker 1: and a wake up call for his inner sanctum, who
1:58
Speaker 1: told me today not panicking. Dutton is getting advice about
2:04
Speaker 1: sharpening his message, dumping unpopular policies and improving attack ads.
2:10
Speaker 1: He's focusing on stepping up, but at the same time,
2:14
Speaker 1: the world around US unravels. The ASX lost four percent
2:20
Speaker 1: in value while the US markets fell six percent on Friday.
2:25
Speaker 1: Now for Australia, that's one hundred billion dollar wipeout on
2:29
Speaker 1: the AX. And the concern now is whether or not
2:34
Speaker 1: this will plunge US into a recession. It has the
2:38
Speaker 1: potential to reshape the race if this isn't just a
2:41
Speaker 1: market shock, but if it continues into a deeper problem.
2:46
Speaker 1: Trump's tariffs triggered the financial market meltdown, and there's no
2:50
Speaker 1: sign the president's backing down. Here he was on Air
2:54
Speaker 1: Force one responding to questions about the stock market crash.
3:00
Speaker 2: Going to happen with the market. I can't tell you
3:01
Speaker 2: what I can tell you. Our country has gotten a
3:04
Speaker 2: lot stronger.
3:05
Speaker 3: I don't want anything to go down, but sometimes you
3:08
Speaker 3: have to take medicine to fix something.
3:11
Speaker 1: Take medicine. That's how he's seeing it. So he's standing firm.
3:15
Speaker 1: But The Wall Street Journal speculates that if markets continue
3:20
Speaker 1: in turmoil, or if a recession looms and his approval
3:24
Speaker 1: rating creators, the president may feel the need for a
3:28
Speaker 1: face saving escape route. That could be when he decides
3:32
Speaker 1: to spin his tariffs not as a permanent but as
3:35
Speaker 1: the genius negotiating strategy his apologists claim it is. Now.
3:41
Speaker 1: Trump did promise, as the Wall Street Journal noted, he
3:45
Speaker 1: did promise a boom to working class of voters, and
3:48
Speaker 1: right now growth estimates are foley and some economists, including
3:52
Speaker 1: those at JP Morgan, are now predicting a recession. You'd
3:57
Speaker 1: presume a recession wouldn't be a legacy that Trump hoping
4:00
Speaker 1: for during his second term. Now, as we spoke about
4:04
Speaker 1: on Thursday. Trump is trying to return manufacturing to the
4:09
Speaker 1: United States, partly to deal with the threat of China.
4:13
Speaker 1: This is a long term strategy and the stock market
4:17
Speaker 1: volatility is not a surprise. But the question is whether
4:21
Speaker 1: this is simply a rocky blip or whether this could
4:25
Speaker 1: deteriorate into a global recession. Now, the Wall Street Johnal
4:30
Speaker 1: Editorial Board continued to say that the Wall Street consensus
4:34
Speaker 1: has been wrong before and nothing is foreordained. Trade retaliation
4:39
Speaker 1: could be less than feared, and Trump could change course,
4:44
Speaker 1: but policymakers ignore market signals at their peril. Now back
4:50
Speaker 1: to Australia, a global recession wouldn't eventuate during this shot
4:55
Speaker 1: election campaign, but it could become obvious that that's where
5:00
Speaker 1: we are heading. If so, this completely reshapes the entire campaign.
5:05
Speaker 1: It plays into voters' minds when they're deciding how to
5:09
Speaker 1: cast their ballot. Dutton's team are confident that voters would
5:14
Speaker 1: turn to the coalition, believing that their best place to
5:18
Speaker 1: navigate an uncertain economic environment. But there is also a
5:22
Speaker 1: view that the global uncertainty benefits incumbency and thus in
5:28
Speaker 1: this instance Albanesi would benefit politically and there's a view
5:32
Speaker 1: that voters prefer left of center parties to deal with Trump. Now,
5:38
Speaker 1: as you know, Albanesi has already been trying to benefit
5:42
Speaker 1: politically by continually comparing Dutton to Trump, as the Finn
5:48
Speaker 1: Review says today, to paint Dutton as the Trumpian candidate.
5:53
Speaker 1: Like Labour's original medi scare, there is no substance to
5:56
Speaker 1: the claims being spread through social media. If Labour won
5:59
Speaker 1: the a and of such scare tactics, it would be
6:02
Speaker 1: crying misinformation. The Finn Review ultimately concluded in the editorial
6:08
Speaker 1: that while Labor has no compelling record on economic resilience
6:13
Speaker 1: to reward with the second term, the Trump effect could
6:17
Speaker 1: help sweep Elbow back into office and it makes Dutton's
6:22
Speaker 1: task far more challenging. Treasurer Jim Chalmers today was already
6:27
Speaker 1: crafting the narrative that he's better place to handle a recession,
6:32
Speaker 1: which he warns is a real risk.
6:36
Speaker 3: Now.
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Speaker 1: I find it interesting how the government can never comment
6:40
Speaker 1: on interest rate movements when they're in a rising cycle.
6:45
Speaker 1: They cite the independence of the Reserve Bank, But of
6:48
Speaker 1: course during an election campaign this or changes and Charmers
6:52
Speaker 1: Today predicted up to four rate cuts.
6:56
Speaker 4: Markets are now expecting around four what interrast rate cuts
7:01
Speaker 4: are in Australia this calendar year. There's even a more
7:06
Speaker 4: than even money expectation in the markets, more than fifty
7:09
Speaker 4: percent expectation in the markets that the next Reserve Bank
7:13
Speaker 4: interest rate cut in May might be as big as
7:16
Speaker 4: fifty basis.
7:17
Speaker 1: Points, and Treasury modeling shows there's expected to be a
7:22
Speaker 1: hit on Australian GDP or SO prices. Although how much
7:26
Speaker 1: of this is because of Trump's tariffs and how much
7:29
Speaker 1: of this are domestic factors is arguable. Economist Warren Hogan
7:34
Speaker 1: told me today that much of the impact in Australia
7:38
Speaker 1: is because of the Albanezy government and not the tariffs.
7:42
Speaker 1: He spoke about other effects of the tariffs with Peter
7:45
Speaker 1: Kradlin earlier.
7:47
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, the markets are panicking and their response is
7:50
Speaker 5: pretty severe and pricing in not only a full rate
7:54
Speaker 5: cut in May, but a chance of a fifty point
7:56
Speaker 5: cut and then follow up cuts at every meeting. We're
7:59
Speaker 5: talking about four or five rate cuts taking the cash
8:02
Speaker 5: right down to about three percent.
8:04
Speaker 2: Look, that could.
8:04
Speaker 5: Easily play out if the worst happens, if it's not
8:07
Speaker 5: a broader financial problem, if it's really just this tariff issue.
8:12
Speaker 2: I think the RBA.
8:13
Speaker 5: Would be thinking about that. They've got two or three
8:17
Speaker 5: rate cuts up their sleeve that would take the rate
8:19
Speaker 5: down to three and a half, which they thinks about neutral.
8:23
Speaker 1: So it's against this backdrop that Dutton starts the second
8:27
Speaker 1: week of the campaign. And yes he's behind, as we've canvassed,
8:30
Speaker 1: but there's still another four weeks to go. Today the
8:34
Speaker 1: news he dumped his policy to get workers back to
8:37
Speaker 1: the office, at least public service workers in Canberra. It's
8:41
Speaker 1: precisely the same policy and it's New Southell's Premier Chris Mins,
8:45
Speaker 1: who's had very little backlash and who certainly hasn't been
8:48
Speaker 1: compared to Donald Trump. But Dutton was losing support, not
8:53
Speaker 1: just with women as has been reported, but with families,
8:57
Speaker 1: and so he made the call to dump it.
9:01
Speaker 6: Are you conceding this policy was unpopular with female beliefs?
9:05
Speaker 2: But we've got it wrong, We've apologized for it.
9:07
Speaker 3: We support flexible workplace arrangements and our plan which was
9:11
Speaker 3: only ever targeted for the public service.
9:13
Speaker 2: In camera, Labour's been able to create into a.
9:15
Speaker 1: Scare campaign and alban Easy of course, had nothing better
9:19
Speaker 1: to do or nothing better to announce than continue on
9:22
Speaker 1: with this scare campaign. He visited a family this morning
9:26
Speaker 1: who worked from home in Melbourne, which was never part
9:30
Speaker 1: of Dutton's policy.
9:31
Speaker 6: In any case, Peter Dutton wants to undermine work rights
9:40
Speaker 6: and in particular doesn't understand modern families. Doesn't understand the
9:45
Speaker 6: important role that women and men play in organizing their
9:50
Speaker 6: families and organizing appropriate work conditions wherever it is possible.
9:59
Speaker 1: Just a side note there. I mean people criticize Peter
10:01
Speaker 1: Dutton for not being a good enough communicator. I mean,
10:04
Speaker 1: listen to the Prime minister. That's hardly a great orator. Now,
10:09
Speaker 1: despite what the Prime Minister says, changing policy isn't a
10:13
Speaker 1: negative thing. It's a brave admission that Dutton has listened
10:18
Speaker 1: to the community and was prepared to change. It's a
10:20
Speaker 1: strength to admit that he got something wrong and then
10:24
Speaker 1: changed courts. He was transparent and public about it. I mean,
10:28
Speaker 1: you think of the contrast with Albinizi. He's never apologized
10:32
Speaker 1: or admitted to getting anything wrong in his arrogance. It's
10:36
Speaker 1: always someone else's fault and someone else's responsibility, and his
10:40
Speaker 1: arrogance is bizarre when he's not particularly clever and doesn't
10:44
Speaker 1: work hard enough to get across the detail. I'd bet
10:48
Speaker 1: he was probably a Grade C student at school. Not
10:51
Speaker 1: exactly the genius you'd want running our country. But more
10:56
Speaker 1: worryingly is Albanzi's character and integrity. He lies about major
11:02
Speaker 1: things like the Port of Darwin decision and tiny things
11:07
Speaker 1: like whether or not he fell off the stage. Now
11:10
Speaker 1: on the Port of Darwin, Albanize he heard that Dartin
11:13
Speaker 1: was about to make an announcement that the Coalition would
11:16
Speaker 1: buy back the lease. That was thanks to the leak
11:20
Speaker 1: of a labor friendly journalist, but Albanize he heard about it,
11:24
Speaker 1: and so he quickly rang into a local Darwin radio
11:28
Speaker 1: station to gazump Dutton's announcement. But the radio announcer was
11:33
Speaker 1: too smart and smelled a rat.
11:36
Speaker 7: I've gotten a little bit lost here. You've flagged the
11:39
Speaker 7: Coalition making an announcement tomorrow that the Coalition are going
11:44
Speaker 7: to say that they'll buy the lease back. But you're
11:47
Speaker 7: not making that announcement today.
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Speaker 8: You bet we will. We've been working on on this
11:55
Speaker 8: issue for some.
11:56
Speaker 7: Time, so I just need to be clear. Here are
11:58
Speaker 7: you announcing that the Labor government will buy back the
12:03
Speaker 7: port of Doowen? Lease off Lambridge.
12:06
Speaker 8: What we are doing is we will enter into negotiations
12:10
Speaker 8: to do that. That is what we've been doing informally
12:15
Speaker 8: through potential buyers up to this point already.
12:18
Speaker 7: So are you buying back the lease of the Port
12:20
Speaker 7: of Darwen or not.
12:22
Speaker 8: Well, what we're doing is trying to get to see
12:25
Speaker 8: if there's a private buyer through particularly superannuation funds that
12:30
Speaker 8: we've had discussions with. They have sanded out Landbridge as well.
12:36
Speaker 8: We want that to be the case, but we want it.
12:40
Speaker 1: And it went on. I mean, she's far better than
12:42
Speaker 1: the average press gallery journalist that Albin Eazi is used
12:45
Speaker 1: to have a listen.
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Speaker 7: So you're making sure you have a buyer first before
12:50
Speaker 7: you announce those plans.
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Speaker 8: Well, we want it to be in Australian hands. We
12:55
Speaker 8: prefer that it be through superannuation funds or some their vehicle.
13:00
Speaker 7: So when might you have a clearer idea about whether
13:04
Speaker 7: you have a buyer or not and whether this is
13:07
Speaker 7: a plan that you are proceeding with. Will you have
13:10
Speaker 7: those details during this election campaign prior to the third
13:14
Speaker 7: of May. Will you be able to tell us we
13:17
Speaker 7: are buying back the port and this is how we're
13:19
Speaker 7: going to do it.
13:19
Speaker 8: We certainly will enter into those discussions, and the Northern
13:24
Speaker 8: Territory government have had discussions with us as well. We'll
13:27
Speaker 8: have more to say over the coming period before the
13:31
Speaker 8: third of May.
13:31
Speaker 7: Yeah, we have covered that. I'm just wondering how much
13:35
Speaker 7: the federal government would be willing to contribute to buy
13:39
Speaker 7: back the Port of Darwin.
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Speaker 8: Well, what you don't do is negotiate through a radio station.
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Speaker 1: If you don't negotiate through a radio station, then why
13:49
Speaker 1: are you ringing one up. Well, it's because it was
13:52
Speaker 1: trying to scuff a Dozen's announcement to return the Port
13:54
Speaker 1: of Darwin to Australian ownership. Now, these were questions he
13:58
Speaker 1: should have been expecting, but of course he hadn't worked
14:01
Speaker 1: them through because he only did that interview when he
14:04
Speaker 1: got wind of Dutton's press conference the next day. But
14:08
Speaker 1: here's another interesting thing. What you just heard from alban
14:11
Speaker 1: Easy was the precise opposite of what he said just
14:16
Speaker 1: eighteen months ago. In October twenty twenty three, alban Easy
14:20
Speaker 1: said he accepted a report of his own agency that
14:24
Speaker 1: the Chinese Link Company could continue to operate the lease.
14:28
Speaker 1: And he says, and I quote, that the issue had
14:31
Speaker 1: now been resolved. Game over. Here's what he said. He said,
14:36
Speaker 1: and we've accepted that report rather than have to lay
14:39
Speaker 1: out a considerable compensation cost, which would have been applicable
14:43
Speaker 1: if there was any forced intervention and forced sale by
14:46
Speaker 1: the Commonwealth. So that issue has now been resolved. There
14:51
Speaker 1: won't be an intervention for any forced sale. It was
14:56
Speaker 1: categoric about it. That was October twenty three, just a
15:01
Speaker 1: year and a half ago. But now when he got
15:03
Speaker 1: winned that Dutton was announcing a sale, he changed his tune.
15:08
Speaker 1: He claimed he'd already been working on this. So compare
15:11
Speaker 1: the comments you just heard game over or resolved to
15:15
Speaker 1: what he says now.
15:17
Speaker 8: The idea that you would have the major port in
15:20
Speaker 8: Northern Australia owned by any foreign interest is not in
15:26
Speaker 8: Australia's national interest.
15:29
Speaker 1: Alban Easy refuses to even acknowledge he's backtracked, let alone
15:33
Speaker 1: admit to a one point eighty shift in position. He's
15:36
Speaker 1: so consumed without foxing Dutton, so fixated on stealing his
15:41
Speaker 1: thunder over the pot of Darwin, that substance and well
15:45
Speaker 1: thought out policy has taken a back seat to cheap
15:49
Speaker 1: tricks and tactics. His superficial answers in that radio interview
15:54
Speaker 1: exposed a hollow narrative from a hollow man. Voters are
15:59
Speaker 1: paying attention, and that's an if. If voters are paying attention,
16:03
Speaker 1: if they look beyond the headlines, then Albanez's lack of
16:07
Speaker 1: integrity an obsession with spin will be his own undoing
16:12
Speaker 1: Yet right now, while Dutton is trying to find his
16:15
Speaker 1: rhythm in the first election campaign as leader, Trump has
16:19
Speaker 1: lobbed a political grenade into the mix, a wild card
16:23
Speaker 1: so volatile that its impact on the election campaign remains
16:28
Speaker 1: anyone's guess. I'm going to have full political analysis in
16:35
Speaker 1: a moment, but right now, let's return to the market
16:38
Speaker 1: blood bath sparked by Trump's trade tariffs. As I just
16:41
Speaker 1: told you, up to one hundred billion dollars has been
16:43
Speaker 1: wiped off the ASX. The Asian markets hit as well.
16:47
Speaker 1: Former Treasury sick Assistant Secretary David Pearl joins me for
16:51
Speaker 1: his view. David, thank you so much for your time
16:54
Speaker 1: again on the show. The big question is whether the
16:57
Speaker 1: stock markets will settle, whether this is just the volatility
17:01
Speaker 1: that Trump warned about, or whether this could escalate into
17:04
Speaker 1: a global recession. What's your view.
17:09
Speaker 9: My view, Shari, and thanks for having me on, is
17:11
Speaker 9: that nobody knows. There are so many uncertainties at the moment.
17:15
Speaker 9: One scenario is the Trump backtracks very quickly. I'm not
17:20
Speaker 9: sure that's going to happen, but that would probably be
17:22
Speaker 9: the benign one. Another scenario is for China and other
17:27
Speaker 9: major economies to start to negotiate quickly with the US.
17:31
Speaker 9: I think that would not be ideal for markets, but
17:34
Speaker 9: it would be a midway. And then the third scenario,
17:37
Speaker 9: which you can't discount, Shari, is for trade tensions to escalate,
17:42
Speaker 9: for China and others to stick to their retaliation, and
17:45
Speaker 9: for markets, both financial markets and equity markets generally to
17:51
Speaker 9: be far more affected than they have already. So nobody knows, Shari.
17:55
Speaker 9: We're in a situation of deep uncertainty for.
17:58
Speaker 1: US in Australia as seen already and impact on our
18:02
Speaker 1: currency down to sixty cents summer, estimating that this could
18:07
Speaker 1: fall even too fifty cents. Do you think that's possible.
18:12
Speaker 9: It is possible, you might recall, and reviewers might recall it.
18:16
Speaker 9: When the Asian financial crisis hit in nineteen ninety eight
18:19
Speaker 9: from memory, that had a major negative effect on commodity
18:24
Speaker 9: prices and Australian exports and the big depreciation of our currency,
18:28
Speaker 9: our freely floating currency then really provided a cushion for
18:33
Speaker 9: our commodity exporters and for the economy and helped us
18:36
Speaker 9: get through. So it's not a bad thing that the
18:39
Speaker 9: economy that the exchange rate is adjusting like it is.
18:44
Speaker 9: In fact, it should be the first line of defense
18:47
Speaker 9: for this uncertainty and market turbulence, rather than any panicked
18:51
Speaker 9: response from the RBA, which I interpreted Jim Charmers today encouraging.
18:58
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel it's hard to ask you about
19:01
Speaker 1: predictions because, as you started off by saying, we just
19:04
Speaker 1: don't know how international markets and how other countries are
19:09
Speaker 1: going to react, whether they will retaliate or not. But
19:12
Speaker 1: you know, at this point in time, at least if
19:16
Speaker 1: there is a deepening problem. You know, the Treasure today
19:20
Speaker 1: spoke about up to four interest rate cuts, So you know,
19:23
Speaker 1: do you think that he was being overly alarmist or
19:27
Speaker 1: is this a realistic proposition that things could get so
19:30
Speaker 1: bad we're looking at four rate cuts this year?
19:34
Speaker 2: I think the.
19:34
Speaker 9: Treasure is being a market compentator, which seems to be
19:37
Speaker 9: the role he likes. I think it's appalling practice for
19:40
Speaker 9: a treasurer to basically blithely refer to financial markets panicked
19:46
Speaker 9: prediction that we're going to have fifty basis points off
19:50
Speaker 9: the cash rate in May and maybe one percent off
19:53
Speaker 9: the cash rate by the end of the year.
19:55
Speaker 2: We don't know that.
19:57
Speaker 9: Let's go back to.
19:59
Speaker 2: Power.
20:00
Speaker 9: The US FED chairman, he gave a very important speech
20:02
Speaker 9: on Friday Sharry where he refused to offer FED support
20:08
Speaker 9: to rescue Wall Street, as he should have, and he
20:12
Speaker 9: said that the FED had time to wait for incoming
20:17
Speaker 9: data on inflation and activity, and he referred to the
20:21
Speaker 9: heightened risks of inflation and inflationary expectations. So by no
20:26
Speaker 9: means was he for fing a willingness to come in,
20:33
Speaker 9: but he didn't want to overreact and react before the data.
20:37
Speaker 9: And I think that the RBA Board should adopt Jerome
20:42
Speaker 9: Powell's playbook there now. If later in the year the
20:47
Speaker 9: data starts to indicate that economic activity is slowing or
20:51
Speaker 9: price pressures arising, then it might be appropriate for the
20:53
Speaker 9: Board to act. But I don't think, or at least
20:56
Speaker 9: it's my opinion, that the Board should not be taking
20:58
Speaker 9: a lead from financial market players who are frankly panicking,
21:02
Speaker 9: understand why they are, but they shouldn't be the guide
21:05
Speaker 9: for Munchi policy now.
21:07
Speaker 1: No, indeed, Sage Advice. Thank you very much for your
21:10
Speaker 1: time as always, David Pearl, thank you so much. All right,
21:13
Speaker 1: so the message there no need to panic at this
21:16
Speaker 1: point in time. Let's wait and see. All right, let's
21:20
Speaker 1: return to the political headlines today and for more analysis
21:23
Speaker 1: on where this election is headed. Let's bring in the
21:25
Speaker 1: Australians Chief political correspondent Jeff Chambers and Daily Telegraph journalist
21:29
Speaker 1: James Willis. Thank you both so much. Great to see you.
21:33
Speaker 1: So the big story of course today front page of
21:36
Speaker 1: your paper, James, is that Dutton has dumped this policy
21:42
Speaker 1: which was actually just to get Canberra public servants back
21:45
Speaker 1: to work, but the way that Labor was selling this
21:48
Speaker 1: it became this big scare campaign. Families were worried that
21:51
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have the flexibility in their work life arrangements
21:56
Speaker 1: any longer. Do you think he had no choice but
21:58
Speaker 1: to dump this?
21:59
Speaker 2: Well?
21:59
Speaker 3: What I do like and I agree with what you
22:01
Speaker 3: said off the top, that it is refreshing for a
22:03
Speaker 3: politician to come out as soon as he identifies a
22:06
Speaker 3: problem and say hey, look I got this one wrong
22:09
Speaker 3: and we're going to go in a different direction. So
22:10
Speaker 3: I think that was a really refreshing take. We don't
22:13
Speaker 3: always see that from the Prime Minister, if ever, and
22:16
Speaker 3: other labor politicians working from home and the way that
22:20
Speaker 3: they have tried to attack and politicize the public service.
22:24
Speaker 3: It's been a really really interesting one to watch unfold
22:27
Speaker 3: because I think if most people saw the numbers of
22:30
Speaker 3: increases in public servants and the cost of the public
22:33
Speaker 3: service and what the Australian economy and our society looks like,
22:36
Speaker 3: you'd be saying, well, something has to give there. But
22:40
Speaker 3: I don't think they argue this the right way, Shari,
22:42
Speaker 3: and I think they could have said there's going to
22:44
Speaker 3: be a fifteen percent cut to the public service in
22:47
Speaker 3: every department in the same way that we have had
22:49
Speaker 3: for most businesses in this country. You're going to have
22:52
Speaker 3: to make productivity gains across the board. But when we
22:54
Speaker 3: started talking about sacking people, we started talking about forcing
22:58
Speaker 3: people back to the office working from home as a
23:00
Speaker 3: tricky one. Most of us would agree that we should
23:03
Speaker 3: be back in the office by now, but there's a
23:05
Speaker 3: lot of people out there that are voting that don't
23:07
Speaker 3: agree with it and want working from home as part
23:09
Speaker 3: of their life.
23:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's going to be a balance,
23:12
Speaker 1: particularly with mothers. But Jeff, that was part of the
23:15
Speaker 1: fact that not all families liked it. But the other
23:17
Speaker 1: part of the picture was that it was you know,
23:19
Speaker 1: this policy played into Albanese's attempts to paint Dutton as
23:23
Speaker 1: Trump liked and this is a liability for the coalition.
23:29
Speaker 10: Oh hi, Sharry, Yeah, it's really proving to be a
23:31
Speaker 10: liability and it's really cutting through.
23:35
Speaker 2: You know, they're really trying the labors framing up.
23:37
Speaker 10: As they do best in terms of their attack hit jobs,
23:41
Speaker 10: Peter Dutton as a mini Trump. But the facts of
23:45
Speaker 10: the matter is that the public service policies.
23:49
Speaker 2: Were very focused and targeted.
23:51
Speaker 10: I think the problem for the Liberal Party and by
23:53
Speaker 10: the way, this dumping of this policy has been in
23:56
Speaker 10: the works for a few weeks now and there are
23:58
Speaker 10: some internally who are saying that this should have happened
24:00
Speaker 10: before the election campaign started. I think the issue was
24:03
Speaker 10: you had too many people talking about little elements of
24:06
Speaker 10: it rather than a definitive policy that was put out
24:09
Speaker 10: and once you do that little piece Bill bits and
24:12
Speaker 10: pieces of policy. It allows your opponents to really weaponize
24:18
Speaker 10: various elements of it.
24:20
Speaker 1: Well, let's have a look at the polling that has
24:22
Speaker 1: got so many people concerned. Today Newspoll had Labor ahead
24:26
Speaker 1: fifty two to forty eight on a two pp basis.
24:29
Speaker 1: The coalition's primary vote had dropped by one point. James,
24:35
Speaker 1: what's your view on reading newspoll, given you know it
24:39
Speaker 1: wasn't all bad news for Data and he was up
24:41
Speaker 1: as preferred prime minister over Alban Eazy.
24:44
Speaker 3: I think that the obviously the independent vote is going
24:47
Speaker 3: to be crucial once again. But I think as the
24:49
Speaker 3: days go on, we are figuring out that the coalition
24:53
Speaker 3: looks like this is going to need two terms to
24:56
Speaker 3: get all the ducks lined up, and they needed a
24:59
Speaker 3: grand Final life performance, a record like performance to get
25:02
Speaker 3: back twenty plus seats to get back into government in
25:06
Speaker 3: just one term. And when we start to pick apart
25:08
Speaker 3: some of their policies, and we've heard this with Gas
25:10
Speaker 3: in recent days, We've heard this with some of the
25:12
Speaker 3: talk about migration and international students, and when they're grilled
25:16
Speaker 3: on the detail and there's some things that don't quite
25:18
Speaker 3: make sense and they haven't really given these an opportunity
25:22
Speaker 3: to breathe properly with the electorate and understand what people want.
25:25
Speaker 3: Then the polling indicates is going to be too hard
25:28
Speaker 3: for Peter Dutton at this stage. I mean, things could
25:31
Speaker 3: change and he certainly got plenty of ammunition with the
25:33
Speaker 3: way the Prime minister's performing, but I just get the
25:36
Speaker 3: feeling that we're heading towards this being a two term
25:40
Speaker 3: proposition for Peter Dutton and the coalition.
25:43
Speaker 1: Jeff, the polls were wildly wrong in twenty nineteen. They
25:47
Speaker 1: were even wrong just in the recent US election where
25:50
Speaker 1: it was predicted to be very close. It wasn't close
25:53
Speaker 1: at all. So you know, what do you think about that?
25:56
Speaker 1: When yes, there is the polls, perhaps look at where
25:59
Speaker 1: the someone can win with a majority of votes in
26:02
Speaker 1: a majority of seats, but you know, the elections come
26:06
Speaker 1: down to voters in more than a handful in this case,
26:09
Speaker 1: but in very specific seats.
26:12
Speaker 2: Hey, Cherry, Yes, So this is a national poll.
26:16
Speaker 10: It's a snapshot of just over a thousand people, and
26:19
Speaker 10: what it doesn't pick up, as you're saying, is pockets
26:23
Speaker 10: of disquiet or discomfort with the government. And we're going
26:26
Speaker 10: to see Anthony abanezy loose seats across the country. It's
26:31
Speaker 10: just a matter of Ken Peter doesn't pick up enough seats.
26:34
Speaker 10: And I think what we're seeing is at this point,
26:36
Speaker 10: and there's still a few weeks to play on this,
26:38
Speaker 10: the answer is no. And I think a really important
26:41
Speaker 10: area to look at is those minor parties so one nation,
26:45
Speaker 10: even Clykee Palmer's party, if you've got a dissolution voter,
26:50
Speaker 10: they're not quite sold on the coalition's proposition. The key
26:54
Speaker 10: point here in some of these electorates will be those
26:57
Speaker 10: preference flows. But look, yeah, overall there's a tightening going on,
27:02
Speaker 10: and for a one term government as an incumbent with
27:05
Speaker 10: a lot of global headwinds, I think we're started to
27:09
Speaker 10: see that natural sort of tightening towards labor. But you know,
27:13
Speaker 10: as I said, there's still about four weeks of this
27:15
Speaker 10: campaign to go.
27:16
Speaker 11: Yeah.
27:16
Speaker 1: Indeed, now a bad day for Chris Bowen. He's been
27:20
Speaker 1: accused of hypocrisy, he's reportedly blown two hundred and sixty
27:24
Speaker 1: thousand dollars on overseas travel expenses, and then there was
27:29
Speaker 1: his refusal to answer questions about nickel production from Channel
27:32
Speaker 1: seven journalist Liam Bartlet. Have a look at.
27:35
Speaker 2: This, minister.
27:37
Speaker 5: You're happy, you're happy to see the nickel coming in
27:40
Speaker 5: here in these electric vehicles.
27:42
Speaker 8: I think I've made very clear my preface is Australia nickels.
27:44
Speaker 2: But it's not happening, minister. It's not happy with respect.
27:47
Speaker 2: It is happening. Hey, mate, I don't appreciate that. I
27:51
Speaker 2: don't appreciate that I'm talking to a minister of the crowd.
27:54
Speaker 2: Who is this guy? Do you think you're going to
27:55
Speaker 2: get anywhere?
27:56
Speaker 10: Buty?
27:56
Speaker 2: Do is this guy there? Make just I want to
27:58
Speaker 2: just help him, except who who is he to step
28:03
Speaker 2: between the media and a minister of the crowd. I
28:05
Speaker 2: let everybody else do it.
28:07
Speaker 5: Put it out of my fat, out of my sage.
28:10
Speaker 2: Do you go to my face again?
28:11
Speaker 8: You want to do it?
28:12
Speaker 2: You want to do it on camera? Do you want
28:14
Speaker 2: to do it on cameras? You really want to do this?
28:17
Speaker 1: And these were apparently climate activists who decided to protect
28:21
Speaker 1: Chris Bohtan James. You'd like to think a minister can
28:25
Speaker 1: handle questions from a journalist.
28:28
Speaker 3: Well, no doubt. And given that Labor has pushed so
28:30
Speaker 3: hard to get everyone to switch to electric vehicles, and
28:34
Speaker 3: which is what this story was about correct, yeah, and
28:36
Speaker 3: I mean Labour's policy I think until recently still might
28:39
Speaker 3: be was eighty nine percent all new vehicles electric by
28:42
Speaker 3: twenty thirty. And so when you have these Chinese made
28:45
Speaker 3: electric vehicles coming in thousands into the country and then
28:49
Speaker 3: discover that the way that they are made are in
28:51
Speaker 3: third world conditions where workers are dying horrific environmental impacts,
28:56
Speaker 3: well they're the kind of questions the minister should be asked.
29:00
Speaker 3: And of course Chris Bowen agreed to give an interview
29:02
Speaker 3: at the end of that Channel seven program that never happened,
29:05
Speaker 3: and then today was forced to sort of deal with
29:08
Speaker 3: the fallout of what people were wondering what was going on.
29:11
Speaker 3: I know it as well as part of the fallout
29:12
Speaker 3: from last night. Chari Anthony Albernezi was asked about it
29:17
Speaker 3: this morning and didn't know about it, said, I don't
29:18
Speaker 3: know about the show. I haven't been told about the show.
29:21
Speaker 3: Once again, I might know about it, not across his brief.
29:24
Speaker 3: But they shame because they're the ones that are pushing
29:26
Speaker 3: these policies on the Australian people claim.
29:28
Speaker 1: To not know about it. If that's believable, And what
29:30
Speaker 1: about he said, I haven't been briefed on it. He
29:33
Speaker 1: could have watched the television. He could have watched the show. Jeff,
29:37
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? You know, either this
29:39
Speaker 1: story or Chris Bowen's hypocrisy over his excessive travel while
29:44
Speaker 1: lecturing everyone else on climate emissions.
29:48
Speaker 10: Yeah, I can't believe that there's an EV influencer. He's
29:52
Speaker 10: not doing a very good job because EV stales have
29:55
Speaker 10: flat lined. And what really gets me is all these
29:59
Speaker 10: labor policy a geared to help people get into evs
30:02
Speaker 10: and who does it help. You're in a city well
30:04
Speaker 10: to do folk right, so they don't pay reggi or
30:07
Speaker 10: they get discounted reggi. They don't pay for the use
30:10
Speaker 10: of the roads that's done through fuel excise for people
30:12
Speaker 10: with normal cars, and they get all these tax breaks.
30:16
Speaker 10: So it just sort of drives this sort of the
30:19
Speaker 10: haves and the have nots.
30:20
Speaker 2: And I think this is sort of know whether it's.
30:23
Speaker 10: Batteries for homes or trying to get more people in
30:25
Speaker 10: the EV's, it's really dividing the country.
30:28
Speaker 1: I think quote shocking revelations and it'll hurt. I think
30:33
Speaker 1: it really will damage the electric vehicle industry if people
30:36
Speaker 1: know just how much pollution it's generating, as Channel seven
30:39
Speaker 1: showed last night. All right, Jeff Chambers, James Willis, thank
30:42
Speaker 1: you both so much, Thank you, and a reminder tomorrow
30:45
Speaker 1: night must watch television. The first debate of the campaign,
30:49
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton versus Anthony Albanisi. I'll be there live, so
30:53
Speaker 1: I'll come to you the moment it finishes at eight
30:56
Speaker 1: thirty pm and we'll discuss on air who's won. Wednesday
31:00
Speaker 1: night Jim Chalmers with Angus Taylor again. I'll be on
31:04
Speaker 1: air eight thirty right when it finishes. And then if
31:07
Speaker 1: you want to watch Chris Bowen and Ted O'Brian having
31:10
Speaker 1: a debate on energy, which I definitely do, that's around
31:13
Speaker 1: midday twelve thirty on Thursday. So three big debates all
31:17
Speaker 1: on Sky News. This is the election channel to watch.
31:21
Speaker 1: You don't want to miss a night here, all right?
31:23
Speaker 1: After the break? Who won the Wentworth debate last night?
31:26
Speaker 1: A Legrispender or Roe Knox Plus can underdog Dutton turn
31:31
Speaker 1: the tired? Our Political Insiders panel Cameron Milner and Andrew Carswell,
31:35
Speaker 1: we'll give their view next welcome back. Well, it's shocking
31:43
Speaker 1: that what I'm about to tell you hasn't had more
31:45
Speaker 1: media coverage because there was chaos at the University of
31:49
Speaker 1: Sydney last week when vile pro Palestinian protesters disrupted an
31:55
Speaker 1: event honoring the survivors of October seven and even forced
31:59
Speaker 1: them into lockdow out. The event was called Survived to Tell,
32:03
Speaker 1: and there were first hand accounts of people who did
32:06
Speaker 1: survive the massacre, and they weren't old Jewish Israelis, they
32:09
Speaker 1: were Muslims and Christian Israelis as well. But the protesters
32:13
Speaker 1: wanted it canceled, and the attendees were locked in the
32:17
Speaker 1: building after it finished, apparently for their own safety, with
32:20
Speaker 1: radicals screaming at them, have a look.
32:25
Speaker 11: Yeah, because we are going to be here to make
32:33
Speaker 11: you feel uncomfortable.
32:35
Speaker 3: You should not be here.
32:38
Speaker 11: You're going to find out who you are discussing. Your
32:42
Speaker 11: baby cares.
32:45
Speaker 1: I'm going.
32:47
Speaker 2: Come on, come out, grund dad, granddad. You want to
32:52
Speaker 2: bring the screen up, Grandad.
32:57
Speaker 1: It was so horrific looking at all of the footage.
33:00
Speaker 1: I kin'd even tell you how upsetting it was looking
33:02
Speaker 1: at the full extent of that footage that we're here
33:05
Speaker 1: to talk about surviving October seven, and this is how
33:09
Speaker 1: they were treated at the University of Sydney. We'll joining
33:12
Speaker 1: me now is Israel's United Nations spokesman Jonathan Paradoff. Jonathan,
33:17
Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time. What's your reaction
33:20
Speaker 1: to images like that? And one of Australia's oldest and
33:23
Speaker 1: most prestigious universities.
33:25
Speaker 12: Thank you so much for having me on your show, Shari.
33:28
Speaker 12: It's truly disheartening and disturbing to see these scenes. What's
33:32
Speaker 12: most shocking to me is not what Harmas perpetrated on
33:36
Speaker 12: October the seventh. Harmas's genocidal in tent is very clear.
33:40
Speaker 12: They're very explicit about their hatred for Jews, for Israeli people,
33:43
Speaker 12: for anyone who supports the idea of a jurisdic What
33:46
Speaker 12: was most disturbing to many people across the world was
33:49
Speaker 12: what happened on October the eighth, October ninth, October the tenth,
33:53
Speaker 12: and since then, five hundred and odd days since. And
33:56
Speaker 12: I think what we've seen at the University of Sydney
33:58
Speaker 12: is the latest manifestation of this inexplicable hatred towards anyone
34:05
Speaker 12: who is coming from anyone who's Jewish, anyone comes from
34:08
Speaker 12: the day of visual even someone an innocent person who
34:11
Speaker 12: survived the most horrific atrocity just for being Jewish, just
34:17
Speaker 12: for being Israeli, Israeli, just for being a Jewish, just
34:21
Speaker 12: for being Muslim, just for belonging to a certain country.
34:24
Speaker 12: And that's truly disturbing, No.
34:26
Speaker 1: It is, Indeed, it's just shocking. Now, we saw the
34:30
Speaker 1: news over the past few days that Hamas has reportedly
34:33
Speaker 1: revised down their death toll, So this is removing the
34:37
Speaker 1: names of thousands of Palestinians it had claimed were killed.
34:41
Speaker 1: The researchers say that at least a thousand children are
34:44
Speaker 1: no longer on the list, and that seventy two percent
34:47
Speaker 1: of those killed were combatant aged men. Now, Jonathan, this
34:51
Speaker 1: has been widely covered in the international media, not on
34:55
Speaker 1: the ABC as far as I can tell. Why there's
34:57
Speaker 1: reluctance by left leaning media to cover this story.
35:02
Speaker 12: As a as a trains journalist, it's very disturbing to
35:06
Speaker 12: see that many of the outlets across the spectrum are
35:08
Speaker 12: not covering this, and when they do cover it, they
35:10
Speaker 12: sometimes fail to mention who is running the health ministry,
35:14
Speaker 12: the fact that it is a Harmas run health industry.
35:17
Speaker 12: Health ministry. Look, I think this boils down to the
35:22
Speaker 12: fact that Hermas obviously doesn't care about Israelis, but it
35:24
Speaker 12: also doesn't care about its own people, which is why
35:27
Speaker 12: it's it's so blase about throwing around different numbers and
35:30
Speaker 12: figures that are detached from reality. And we saw the
35:34
Speaker 12: latest evidence of the people of Gaza not kept rising
35:40
Speaker 12: up against Hamas because Hamas does not care about its
35:42
Speaker 12: own people. And we saw some brave instances of anti
35:45
Speaker 12: Hamas riots which were very violently stamped down. But that
35:50
Speaker 12: just shows to you how much the government cares so
35:53
Speaker 12: little about its own people.
35:54
Speaker 1: No exactly, I mean even Palestinians being executed by Akus
35:59
Speaker 1: simply for one a better future. Now we're seeing evidence
36:03
Speaker 1: that Iran was complicit in October seven. Israel has said
36:07
Speaker 1: that there is new documentation. What can you tell us
36:10
Speaker 1: about this?
36:13
Speaker 12: I don't think it's breaking news that the Islamic Republic
36:16
Speaker 12: of Iran's tentacles fingerprints signature has been all over the
36:21
Speaker 12: atrocities of October the seventh, but they go way back
36:24
Speaker 12: before that. The latest piece of public evidence that's been
36:28
Speaker 12: revealed shows that June twenty twenty one, Hamas leaders Yaya
36:34
Speaker 12: Simuan Muhammadif wrote to the IRGC commanders asking for something
36:40
Speaker 12: in the summer five hundred million dollars in order to
36:43
Speaker 12: carry out future attacks against Israel, and those attacks took
36:47
Speaker 12: place on October the seventh. The Islamic Republic has for
36:51
Speaker 12: a very long time denied any connection, and we're slowly
36:54
Speaker 12: starting to see the extent and the scale of the Islamic.
36:58
Speaker 1: Republics together money trail. Of course. Yes, Now before you go,
37:02
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, Australia has been hostile to
37:06
Speaker 1: Israel under our current government at the United Nations, voting
37:09
Speaker 1: against Israel in multiple occasions over the past few years.
37:14
Speaker 1: How disappointing is this to you? We're in an election
37:17
Speaker 1: campaign and how much of a concern is this to you?
37:20
Speaker 1: This breaking bipartisan support.
37:23
Speaker 12: What we try and do at the Israeli Mission to
37:25
Speaker 12: the UN, and what Israel's ambassador to the UN, Danny Dunnon,
37:28
Speaker 12: tries to do is present the truth. And it's very
37:33
Speaker 12: disappointing to see countries that don't side with truth, don't
37:38
Speaker 12: side with any Sharabi when he's speaking of the Security Council,
37:40
Speaker 12: don't side with Noah Aga money, and they side with
37:43
Speaker 12: the Palestinian authority and representatives of a regime that really
37:46
Speaker 12: doesn't care about its own people, let alone Jewish or
37:49
Speaker 12: Israeli people. So it's extremely disappointing.
37:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is indeed all right to us as well,
37:54
Speaker 1: Jonathan Haronov. Really appreciate your time. Great to see you
37:57
Speaker 1: here in Australia as well, not just on the clips
37:59
Speaker 1: on the television. Thank you Now. Still to come is
38:03
Speaker 1: Elon Musk breaking with Trump over his controversial trade tariffs
38:07
Speaker 1: and George Clooney's meltdown over Joe Biden. Talk about that
38:11
Speaker 1: with Kosher Garda next Welcome back in Sky News contributed
38:18
Speaker 1: Koshergarda joins US Now and Kosher. What are these reports
38:22
Speaker 1: about Trump's head trade advisor, Pete Navarro copying it from
38:26
Speaker 1: Elon Musk over Trump's tariff agenda.
38:31
Speaker 13: Yes, they've had a little bit of a public spat
38:34
Speaker 13: on X because of differing opinions on the trade policy
38:38
Speaker 13: in some measure, you know, I think that's to be expected.
38:41
Speaker 13: Trade policy is very complex. Tariffs are very controversial, and
38:46
Speaker 13: lots of very smart people disagree on how they should
38:48
Speaker 13: be levied, what the impact will be, how long this
38:51
Speaker 13: will run its course, et cetera. And I guess it's
38:53
Speaker 13: no surprise that there are lots of very smart people
38:55
Speaker 13: with strong opinions surrounding Trump and his orbit, and these
38:58
Speaker 13: two seem to have that spill out a little bit
39:00
Speaker 13: out into the open. But I think it's just a
39:02
Speaker 13: microcosm of I think how the whole world is looking
39:04
Speaker 13: at Trump's agenda with respect to turfs.
39:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sparked, of course, speculation about Elon Musk's relationship
39:10
Speaker 1: with Trump. We've also seen that Bill Ackman has come
39:12
Speaker 1: out saying paps the tariffs should be delayed. There aren't
39:16
Speaker 1: our concerns over recession kosher. Trump is saying this is
39:20
Speaker 1: medicine that's required, just that the stock market blith, not
39:24
Speaker 1: the recession.
39:27
Speaker 13: Yes, he is staying the course. I think he knew
39:30
Speaker 13: that there is going to be volatility in the markets
39:33
Speaker 13: and other repercussions that will come from that, and he
39:35
Speaker 13: is going to stay the course, at least for the
39:37
Speaker 13: time being. I do think, and ultimately his guiding principle
39:40
Speaker 13: is the working class, real wages for the bottom fifty
39:44
Speaker 13: percent of society, if you will, and if he sees
39:47
Speaker 13: the pain and the medicine happening too much and too deep,
39:50
Speaker 13: with that group. I would expect to see him do something.
39:53
Speaker 13: It may not necessarily be cutting back on turfs. It
39:55
Speaker 13: could be offering targeted subsidies, it could be offering other
39:58
Speaker 13: forms of relief for them. But in terms of the
40:00
Speaker 13: market volatility and whatever is happening to Wall Street versus
40:04
Speaker 13: Main Street, as they put it, that's something where he's
40:06
Speaker 13: really got a Steeley's spine this time around, and he's
40:08
Speaker 13: not going to let that guide what he does, at
40:11
Speaker 13: least in the near term.
40:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you just mentioned they're targeted subsidies and
40:14
Speaker 1: income tax cuts is an option that he has to
40:18
Speaker 1: try and alleviate that pain. But we'll see if he
40:21
Speaker 1: goes there now. Just to finish off, George Clooney has
40:24
Speaker 1: allegedly unleashed a tirade when the reports first came out
40:30
Speaker 1: that he wanted Joe Biden to withdraw from the race.
40:34
Speaker 1: Tell us about this.
40:37
Speaker 13: So this is interesting. There's some inside baseball that's leaking,
40:41
Speaker 13: and that in and of itself is interesting because it
40:43
Speaker 13: doesn't really happen from the left side of politics in America.
40:45
Speaker 13: They always seem to have a very united front publicly,
40:48
Speaker 13: and he was very angry at how the MSNBC hosts
40:51
Speaker 13: Meeker Brazinski and Joe Scarborough sort of said that that
40:54
Speaker 13: wasn't him writing the very famous op ed after the debate,
40:57
Speaker 13: but it was Obama telling him to write it, and
40:59
Speaker 13: he was very angry at that characterization, which is all
41:02
Speaker 13: coming out now. It's also funny on a personal level
41:04
Speaker 13: because you know, George Clear is an alpha male at
41:06
Speaker 13: the apex of his world and his chosen profession, and
41:09
Speaker 13: it just comes down to I think he doesn't love
41:11
Speaker 13: being portrayed as a puppet of Obama and that seems
41:15
Speaker 13: to have really prick to his skin.
41:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there you go. All right, Koshagada, really appreciate
41:20
Speaker 1: your insights as always. Thank you. Now, don't forget Tomorrow night,
41:24
Speaker 1: the Big Debate, the first debate of the campaign between
41:27
Speaker 1: Peter Darton and Anthony Albanezi. It could change everything. It's
41:31
Speaker 1: seven thirty pm on Sky News until eight thirty pm.
41:35
Speaker 1: I will be there. I will be there live from
41:37
Speaker 1: the election debate. As it finishes, we'll talk about who's
41:40
Speaker 1: the winner, who's the loser. Will be there to dissect
41:43
Speaker 1: it all. Ray Hadley Brunman, Bishop Andrew Clonel and Ben
41:47
Speaker 1: English will join me. I'll see there. Here's Paul Murray,