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The Exponential Timeline + Negotiating Signals · Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast

• 0:00
  Dave Hamilton: Business Brain, episode 770 for Wednesday, July 15th, National Give Something Away Day, 2026.
• 0:12
  Shannon Jean: I like that.
• 0:13
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. You gotta give stuff away. Yeah.
• 0:16
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, we have a, people probably know this group's called Buy Nothing,
• 0:20
  Shannon Jean: where people exchange giveaway stuff. Yeah. We have a rule.
• 0:23
  Shannon Jean: We call it, well, we call that group TMS, which it's Take My.
• 0:27
  Dave Hamilton: You can describe.
• 0:29
  Shannon Jean: Take My Stuff. of course or another word yeah uh we have a rule that you have
• 0:32
  Shannon Jean: to give away three things if you take one.
• 0:35
  Dave Hamilton: Oh oh i like that
• 0:39
  Shannon Jean: It helps keep it because uh.
• 0:41
  Dave Hamilton: That's interesting yeah we my wife actually runs our local you know
• 0:47
  Dave Hamilton: free whatever you want to call it group yeah yeah and uh yeah i don't we don't
• 0:51
  Dave Hamilton: need that rule like but i can see where where you like you might at times yes Yeah.
• 0:57
  Shannon Jean: Because, you know, it gets sometimes out of hand. Yeah. When we live,
• 1:00
  Shannon Jean: there's some really cool things that people give away. And we give away tons of cool stuff.
• 1:06
  Shannon Jean: I tried to, I had a hat business. One. I tried to get in the hat business.
• 1:08
  Dave Hamilton: One man's trash. One man's trash, right?
• 1:10
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. I gave away like 400 plus hats. Yeah. Baseball hats to somebody that like
• 1:15
  Shannon Jean: made their day. It was amazing.
• 1:16
  Dave Hamilton: I love that. Perfect.
• 1:17
  Shannon Jean: Yeah.
• 1:18
  Dave Hamilton: It was perfect. It was great.
• 1:19
  Shannon Jean: Because, uh...
• 1:21
  Shannon Jean: You know, I was doing different, we did different apparel, NFL,
• 1:24
  Shannon Jean: different things. And one of the things with those businesses is any business,
• 1:29
  Shannon Jean: and this leads me to my topic today.
• 1:31
  Dave Hamilton: Before you get to your topic, I just want to make sure I let everybody know
• 1:35
  Dave Hamilton: that our sponsors for this.
• 1:37
  Dave Hamilton: I want to welcome everybody to Business Brain, first of all. Welcome.
• 1:40
  Shannon Jean: Greetings. Jump right in it.
• 1:40
  Dave Hamilton: Hey, here we are. We're the show where we take some ideas and we crunch them
• 1:45
  Dave Hamilton: to level up our charmed lives and tune our business brains together.
• 1:49
  Dave Hamilton: Uh shopify.com slash business brain is where you can go
• 1:52
  Dave Hamilton: uh stop waiting for permission to build something just start your next revenue
• 1:56
  Dave Hamilton: stream for free at shopify.com it starts for free shopify.com slash business
• 2:01
  Dave Hamilton: brain and also fan view f-a-n-v-u-e.com
• 2:05
  Dave Hamilton: where you can go and start your own creator journey and we'll talk more about
• 2:08
  Dave Hamilton: both of those in a little bit
• 2:09
  Dave Hamilton: uh but yeah talk about your your thing thank you dave yeah i
• 2:12
  Shannon Jean: Was so excited i.
• 2:13
  Dave Hamilton: Got i'm dave hamilton he's Dan and Gene, let's go. Yep.
• 2:16
  Shannon Jean: That's it. Right into it. You guys know who we are.
• 2:20
  Shannon Jean: But any of those businesses or projects that you're taking off,
• 2:24
  Shannon Jean: they kind of have a lifespan or a timeline, if you will. Okay.
• 2:30
  Shannon Jean: And I see over and over is that after a certain amount of time,
• 2:38
  Shannon Jean: things become exponential.
• 2:41
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, yeah. Oh. Right. Yeah. Overnight success takes about 20 years. Yeah.
• 2:45
  Shannon Jean: Correct.
• 2:46
  Dave Hamilton: Right.
• 2:46
  Shannon Jean: And where most people stop, if we're moving on this timeline,
• 2:50
  Shannon Jean: if you're listening in your car, I'm moving my hand straight, horizontal.
• 2:54
  Shannon Jean: And then at some point, you hit this exponential, something happens.
• 2:58
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, you get a little bit of hockey stick. Yeah.
• 3:00
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. Hockey stick.
• 3:01
  Dave Hamilton: Or a plateau, a new plateau.
• 3:03
  Shannon Jean: Yes. That's right. And you level up. And that's based on many,
• 3:07
  Shannon Jean: many factors, based on your knowledge
• 3:10
  Shannon Jean: that you've accumulated while you've made mistakes along the way,
• 3:13
  Shannon Jean: your network that has expanded, that people you know and opportunities that can come your way,
• 3:20
  Shannon Jean: your team, you know, that you've expanded and all your footprint,
• 3:24
  Shannon Jean: all this, all these things that you're kind of stacking up along this horizontal,
• 3:30
  Shannon Jean: you know, timeline.
• 3:32
  Shannon Jean: I see it over and over again that, and I'm going to say most people stop before
• 3:39
  Shannon Jean: the exponential part can kick in.
• 3:41
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, exponential, I'm not,
• 3:47
  Dave Hamilton: I get what you're saying.
• 3:50
  Dave Hamilton: I think I might say it in the negative by saying that growth,
• 3:55
  Dave Hamilton: most growth is not linear, right?
• 3:59
  Dave Hamilton: You don't just have this thing where you're just gradually seeing the business grow.
• 4:04
  Dave Hamilton: You just have events, and those events are generally not sort of out of nowhere,
• 4:11
  Dave Hamilton: although they can seem that way to people who aren't in it.
• 4:15
  Dave Hamilton: But it's those events that happen where it's like, oh, hey, okay, we've got everything.
• 4:21
  Dave Hamilton: Exactly what you're saying. We've got everything together, and now we've leveled
• 4:24
  Dave Hamilton: up, but it's a new plateau. No, it's it.
• 4:26
  Dave Hamilton: And so each of these little little bursts, if you will, the level up is that
• 4:33
  Dave Hamilton: that's an exponential thing.
• 4:34
  Dave Hamilton: But like in a in in general, it's it's it's this it's this plateaued timeline,
• 4:40
  Dave Hamilton: I think, is what I might call it. But I think we're saying the same thing. Yeah.
• 4:43
  Shannon Jean: Let me let me simplify it. It's chutes and ladders, Dave.
• 4:46
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah.
• 4:47
  Shannon Jean: You ever played that game? Chutes and ladders?
• 4:49
  Dave Hamilton: You definitely have to have the chutes sometimes. Yeah.
• 4:51
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. You know, you you climb a ladder, you get up a little spot,
• 4:55
  Shannon Jean: You go like, oh, it's great. I'm killing it. And all of a sudden you hit the
• 4:58
  Shannon Jean: chute and you slide back down.
• 5:00
  Shannon Jean: And then you crawl a little bit higher and you crawl a little bit higher.
• 5:02
  Shannon Jean: That's business, right? Chutes and ladders. And everyone has their own...
• 5:09
  Shannon Jean: Idea of what, you know, what the runway looks like before you hit that point.
• 5:14
  Shannon Jean: And most people stop because it's hard.
• 5:17
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. Cause it sucks. It looks like you're not going anywhere.
• 5:20
  Shannon Jean: It looks like you're not going anywhere. You're not getting that,
• 5:22
  Shannon Jean: that, uh, quick feedback loop that you're looking for.
• 5:27
  Shannon Jean: Um, you're in the, you're, you're stuck in the suck. Right.
• 5:31
  Shannon Jean: And if you stay there, it sucks the whole time.
• 5:34
  Shannon Jean: And then you're just like, well, business isn't for me or this business didn't work out or.
• 5:40
  Dave Hamilton: You know, we tried to,
• 5:42
  Shannon Jean: And that does happen. However, I think that, you know, we talked about this
• 5:47
  Shannon Jean: last week when we did the failure episode, there, you know, the opportunity to pivot is like,
• 5:54
  Shannon Jean: maybe the thing you thought you were going to start, it was going to be like amazing.
• 5:59
  Shannon Jean: Isn't the amazing thing, but some little chunk of that could be the amazing
• 6:06
  Shannon Jean: thing or it could allow, get you to the amazing part of it. That failure could
• 6:11
  Shannon Jean: get you onto the next thing.
• 6:13
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, I always, I always think about it as the thing I'm doing now,
• 6:19
  Dave Hamilton: especially when, when you sort, I sort of recognize that I'm in one of those,
• 6:24
  Dave Hamilton: those, those straight lines, right?
• 6:26
  Dave Hamilton: It's like okay is this straight line paying for itself
• 6:30
  Dave Hamilton: and if the answer is yes then it's like okay great it is paying for me to get
• 6:36
  Dave Hamilton: to to use your analogy which i love uh to get to the next ladder
• 6:41
  Dave Hamilton: right i it might not be the thing that fuels me up the ladder but it gets me
• 6:45
  Dave Hamilton: to the base of it and i know how to climb when i'm there right but you got to
• 6:50
  Dave Hamilton: get there and so sometimes it is just, and when we talk about grinding it out,
• 6:55
  Dave Hamilton: that's part of it is just grinding your way to the next ladder.
• 6:58
  Dave Hamilton: You can't see where it is, right? But you got to get there. And then when you're
• 7:01
  Dave Hamilton: there, you're like, okay, great climb.
• 7:03
  Dave Hamilton: And you got to let yourself climb too. I, I, um, man, there's so many things,
• 7:08
  Dave Hamilton: this chutes and ladders thing is you stuck me with this. And now I'm going to
• 7:13
  Dave Hamilton: live this for the rest of my life. It's so true.
• 7:16
  Dave Hamilton: Well, I, I always say, you know, When somebody says, wow, gosh,
• 7:20
  Dave Hamilton: this part of this, and this could be business or life in general or whatever,
• 7:24
  Dave Hamilton: it's like, oh, I don't know that I deserve this little sliver of success.
• 7:29
  Dave Hamilton: You get that, that whole fear of success thing.
• 7:31
  Dave Hamilton: Sure. And my response to that, I've learned to say and to think.
• 7:38
  Dave Hamilton: Hey, look, you know, when the bad stuff shows up at your door,
• 7:42
  Dave Hamilton: it's coming in like you don't get to control that. Right. It's already inside
• 7:46
  Dave Hamilton: before you even know the bad stuff's there. Right.
• 7:49
  Shannon Jean: And there's more coming. There's more coming. For some reason,
• 7:51
  Shannon Jean: for some reason, it tends to coagulate and come at the same time.
• 7:55
  Dave Hamilton: It does. But, you know, when the when the good stuff shows up,
• 8:00
  Dave Hamilton: it doesn't barge its way in. It shows up at your door and it knocks.
• 8:03
  Shannon Jean: And that's a good point.
• 8:04
  Dave Hamilton: When you see the good stuff, throw the door wide open and invite it in.
• 8:10
  Dave Hamilton: It's okay because the bad stuff, it came before. It's coming again later. It's just how it is.
• 8:17
  Dave Hamilton: It's fine. But when the good stuff shows up, that's the stuff you can control.
• 8:21
  Dave Hamilton: And that's the stuff you can push away.
• 8:22
  Dave Hamilton: Don't climb the ladder. When you find yourself at the base of the ladder and
• 8:26
  Dave Hamilton: it looks too easy to climb up, it's because you've done the work to get yourself
• 8:30
  Dave Hamilton: to the base of that ladder.
• 8:33
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. Recognizing it is huge. And sticking with the same analogy that I'm going
• 8:38
  Shannon Jean: to write more about, his...
• 8:41
  Shannon Jean: You need to fall down those chutes, right? For sure. A few times.
• 8:44
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. Because you need to learn how to come back up, how to keep going.
• 8:48
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. And if you, in my experience, is that you're better off making,
• 8:54
  Shannon Jean: you know, falling down when you have less to lose.
• 8:57
  Shannon Jean: But I also see people that, they hit that hockey stick right away.
• 9:01
  Dave Hamilton: Yep. Right away. For sure. It happens sometimes.
• 9:03
  Shannon Jean: And you're like, amazing, dude. But I can tell you, at some point,
• 9:06
  Shannon Jean: they're going to fall. Of course. There's no doubt. It's impossible.
• 9:09
  Dave Hamilton: It's just how we are. This isn't like we wish this for them. It happens to us too.
• 9:14
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. Correct. Oh, yeah. The only reason I talk about it is because it's happened to me.
• 9:18
  Dave Hamilton: And it will happen again.
• 9:19
  Shannon Jean: That's right. This show is everything that's happened to me is what I talk about on this show.
• 9:23
  Shannon Jean: You know, and a lot of the words I'd say on this show, I'm programming my brain.
• 9:29
  Shannon Jean: When I'm talking about recovering from failure, my brain is taking it in.
• 9:34
  Shannon Jean: You know, the reason I've been talking for 12 years is because I'm training myself.
• 9:39
  Shannon Jean: Oh, yeah. that helps you guys listening, trained your brain too,
• 9:43
  Shannon Jean: and to put in the right, uh, programming, the right data into your head.
• 9:49
  Dave Hamilton: So that when you find yourself at the base of the ladder, you climb it. That's it. Yeah.
• 9:53
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I love this. That's I, that we're going to come back to
• 9:57
  Dave Hamilton: this shoots and ladders thing so many times, but it's just, it is an analogy
• 10:00
  Dave Hamilton: for life. Like it's, it's a metaphor for life rather.
• 10:03
  Shannon Jean: It is.
• 10:04
  Dave Hamilton: All right. Uh, we have other things to talk about and the, Oh,
• 10:09
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• 11:29
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• 12:47
  Dave Hamilton: So Shannon, business is full of a lot of different things. And one of the things
• 12:51
  Dave Hamilton: that happens frequently enough is negotiating, right? Yes.
• 12:56
  Dave Hamilton: Often with customers, often with vendors, right? It's, you know, all of those things.
• 13:01
  Dave Hamilton: And what I've learned is to pay attention, not to the words that people are saying.
• 13:10
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, definitely pay attention to the words that you're saying,
• 13:12
  Dave Hamilton: but use those words to let them translate what kind of negotiator they are.
• 13:21
  Dave Hamilton: Right. And what they're trying to tell you.
• 13:23
  Dave Hamilton: What are you working with here? Right. I'm going to give you two different sort
• 13:28
  Dave Hamilton: of sentences here. One is your prices are too high.
• 13:31
  Dave Hamilton: The other is $200 is too much for that for me.
• 13:35
  Dave Hamilton: This makes sense for my business at $125, right?
• 13:39
  Dave Hamilton: Like they're both saying the same thing, but one of them is being what I'll
• 13:44
  Dave Hamilton: call the jackass negotiator, right?
• 13:46
  Dave Hamilton: They're testing you. They're saying your prices are too high,
• 13:49
  Dave Hamilton: right? And they probably fancy themselves as some kind of tough negotiator using
• 13:54
  Dave Hamilton: insults, you know, to grab control of the interaction. Fine. Okay.
• 13:59
  Dave Hamilton: And then the second one, it's still negotiating, right?
• 14:03
  Dave Hamilton: But this is the collaborative negotiator, right? They're saying 200 bucks is
• 14:07
  Dave Hamilton: too much for me. This makes sense for my business at 125, right?
• 14:11
  Dave Hamilton: When someone tells you who they are, believe them, right?
• 14:15
  Dave Hamilton: So when you learn that someone is the jackass negotiator, like you,
• 14:20
  Dave Hamilton: you can't try to collaborate with the jackass negotiator because it, it rarely works.
• 14:25
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, if you can melt their ice, great, but more often than not,
• 14:29
  Dave Hamilton: if they fancy themselves as this like tough negotiator, it's like, okay, fine.
• 14:34
  Dave Hamilton: And, you know, then then just be that same way with them and and be be willing
• 14:40
  Dave Hamilton: to use the, you know, stand up and walk away tactic like, OK,
• 14:44
  Dave Hamilton: it's our prices are too high. Great. Let me know.
• 14:48
  Dave Hamilton: One of my favorite things to do when somebody is being a jackass is obviously
• 14:51
  Dave Hamilton: would just be a jackass back to him.
• 14:52
  Dave Hamilton: But but in a not I do it in a in a kind of an under understated way.
• 14:59
  Dave Hamilton: If somebody says your prices are too high my my first response is i totally
• 15:03
  Dave Hamilton: get it i i know times are tough i understand the budgets are limited and you you know
• 15:09
  Dave Hamilton: i i understand this doesn't work for you right now but we're here let me know
• 15:14
  Dave Hamilton: when it does and we'll make a deal happen and usually in those scenarios somebody's
• 15:18
  Dave Hamilton: like well i i could afford it you know
• 15:20
  Dave Hamilton: you've aren't you've you've thrown them that like the framework you change the
• 15:24
  Dave Hamilton: framework right they insult in quote-unquote insult you by saying your prices
• 15:27
  Dave Hamilton: are too high and you quote-unquote insult them back by saying,
• 15:30
  Dave Hamilton: I understand you can't afford this. I get it, man.
• 15:33
  Dave Hamilton: Times are tough everywhere.
• 15:36
  Dave Hamilton: I'm with you, brother. And then suddenly they're like, well,
• 15:41
  Dave Hamilton: no, no, no, no, no. That's not the problem. Oh, okay. Well, then let's keep talking. Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:47
  Shannon Jean: No, it's true. I think, too, that those signals that they're sending is...
• 15:54
  Shannon Jean: Uh, you know, I always say you should don't compete on price,
• 15:56
  Shannon Jean: right? You want to compete, compete on value if you can.
• 16:00
  Shannon Jean: And if you can pitch that part of it.
• 16:03
  Shannon Jean: Uh, but I agree.
• 16:06
  Shannon Jean: I think that if you can spin that conversation in a way that gets them talking
• 16:12
  Shannon Jean: and focused on value of like, well, the reason why the price point is this is
• 16:17
  Shannon Jean: because we do, you know, X, Y, Z, and we do, you know, these extra things.
• 16:21
  Shannon Jean: And, you know, I would hold that up against any kind of quote and,
• 16:26
  Shannon Jean: you know, that kind of thing. So focus, spin it to talk about the value that
• 16:29
  Shannon Jean: they're getting and the quality of what they're going to get.
• 16:32
  Dave Hamilton: Yep. When we're when I'm talking to new podcasts, you know, they'll we'll talk
• 16:37
  Dave Hamilton: about like what are we do.
• 16:38
  Dave Hamilton: We do a rev share with our podcasters and I'll tell people I'm like,
• 16:42
  Dave Hamilton: OK, yeah, you can go find somebody that's going to be that's going to give you a better split.
• 16:49
  Shannon Jean: Oh, it's cheaper. Yes, sure. Sure.
• 16:51
  Dave Hamilton: But hopefully by the time that part of the conversation comes up,
• 16:56
  Dave Hamilton: I've already told them we like to work.
• 16:59
  Dave Hamilton: We only work with shows that that fit our mold here.
• 17:03
  Dave Hamilton: And we really like to be able to individually represent shows.
• 17:06
  Dave Hamilton: And that's why we have, you know, 65, 70 shows, not 650, 700 shows. Right.
• 17:12
  Dave Hamilton: And yeah. And you and then we get to the point where it's like,
• 17:15
  Dave Hamilton: OK, we're talking about the reps. Oh, yeah. You go find somebody that's going
• 17:18
  Dave Hamilton: to give you, you know, a 70, 30 split. Sure.
• 17:21
  Dave Hamilton: Um, we can't do, we can't afford to do that here because of the individual attention
• 17:27
  Dave Hamilton: that we give to our shows. And so we don't want to do that here.
• 17:30
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. It's value.
• 17:31
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Shannon Jean: And you're bringing to the.
• 17:32
  Dave Hamilton: You know, and confidence, right. Like speaking, like I'm not apologizing for
• 17:36
  Dave Hamilton: this. In fact, I'm telling you, if you want somebody like that,
• 17:39
  Dave Hamilton: I can introduce you to them. If you, if you'd like, I'll, I'll take,
• 17:42
  Dave Hamilton: I'll, I'll walk you next door and, and show you.
• 17:45
  Dave Hamilton: They're friends of mine they're good people they run a business that's different
• 17:48
  Dave Hamilton: than mine i it's like they they're successful we're successful it's all fine
• 17:53
  Dave Hamilton: there's no judgment here but
• 17:55
  Dave Hamilton: you know you pick which one you want and people are like well i want the one
• 17:58
  Dave Hamilton: that's going to represent my show individually it's like well well okay
• 18:02
  Dave Hamilton: yeah that sounds like you've made your choice then sounds good yeah
• 18:05
  Shannon Jean: That's right and and that's the thing is it's i also like uh you know scarcity
• 18:11
  Shannon Jean: has a value as well, right?
• 18:13
  Shannon Jean: So if you're, you know, it's not maybe such a good idea to make yourself so available.
• 18:19
  Shannon Jean: It's different if you're looking, you've got to, whatever, you got to pay the bills or whatever.
• 18:23
  Shannon Jean: But if you're, if you know the quality of what's your service,
• 18:27
  Shannon Jean: your product, whatever it is,
• 18:29
  Shannon Jean: and, you know, if your foundation of your business is strong and you know it's
• 18:35
  Shannon Jean: good, you know, you don't have to chase those customers as much.
• 18:38
  Shannon Jean: And you can, you know, qualifying those leads is very important,
• 18:43
  Shannon Jean: right? Asking what's your budget, asking, you know, what you're comfortable with.
• 18:48
  Shannon Jean: Those kind of questions help you qualify like, well, you know what?
• 18:53
  Shannon Jean: We can't come out and do anything for that price, but, you know,
• 18:58
  Shannon Jean: save everybody some time. Yeah.
• 19:00
  Shannon Jean: And I think it's okay to be that way too. To be a little, maybe exclusive is a little bit better.
• 19:05
  Shannon Jean: You know, not to where you're Not approachable, but at the same time,
• 19:12
  Shannon Jean: when they start trying to grind you down, especially if valuing your time, right?
• 19:21
  Shannon Jean: We've talked about this a bunch on the shows that...
• 19:25
  Shannon Jean: You don't want to, don't lower your price, right? Increase the value.
• 19:30
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah.
• 19:31
  Shannon Jean: Just think about it. It's like, well, we'll do, we'll add in,
• 19:35
  Shannon Jean: you know, X, Y, Z for this price, but lowering the price.
• 19:39
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, we don't know. You don't want to lower it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:42
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, add in more value. Things that may not even cost you, your business,
• 19:48
  Shannon Jean: something else, but has a perceived value from the client.
• 19:51
  Shannon Jean: And it's like, you know, maybe it's, well look we normally we normally take
• 19:56
  Shannon Jean: three weeks to get these jobs done if you go with us i can get it done in 10
• 20:01
  Shannon Jean: days even if in your head you already knew that you're going to do.
• 20:04
  Dave Hamilton: It in 10 days that's
• 20:05
  Shannon Jean: Right you just gave up you just gave up you know you speed up the project for
• 20:09
  Shannon Jean: somebody which is always valuable if you're going to do something like that
• 20:11
  Shannon Jean: so think about things that add value don't cost you anything or you've already
• 20:15
  Shannon Jean: put your sunk cost into it right uh yeah.
• 20:18
  Dave Hamilton: Give it away
• 20:19
  Shannon Jean: Give it away. Right. Make it more valuable for him.
• 20:22
  Dave Hamilton: So, but I also, I, I, I like, and you, you started to kind of dance into this,
• 20:26
  Dave Hamilton: the whole idea of chasing the no, right? They, people say, go for the no fine.
• 20:31
  Dave Hamilton: When you're, when you're selling to someone,
• 20:33
  Dave Hamilton: Get them to say no as quickly as possible because that way you're not wasting
• 20:39
  Dave Hamilton: anybody's time. Saving your time. Saving your time.
• 20:42
  Dave Hamilton: And because some people are just tire kickers and will never buy.
• 20:46
  Dave Hamilton: And you want to get those people to the no as quickly as possible.
• 20:49
  Dave Hamilton: But there are the other tire kickers that will buy.
• 20:53
  Dave Hamilton: They just, you know, are having analysis paralysis. And so getting them to the
• 20:58
  Dave Hamilton: no gets you, right, gets you actually to the yes very quickly. Yeah. So.
• 21:04
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, it's very different.
• 21:05
  Dave Hamilton: And it shows confidence.
• 21:06
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. And asking those leading questions like, okay, well, what did you budget for this project?
• 21:12
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. You know, and if they say, well, I don't know, then maybe you go out and
• 21:15
  Shannon Jean: say, well, typically this service or this product is between five and ten, five and $10,000.
• 21:22
  Dave Hamilton: You can be the expert. That's right.
• 21:23
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. Does that come within the range you're thinking of? And if say,
• 21:26
  Shannon Jean: oh, no, I can't spend that kind of money. You go, okay, great. Thank you for the call.
• 21:30
  Dave Hamilton: We saved each other a bunch of time.
• 21:32
  Shannon Jean: You got it. It's okay to ask those questions. I think that lots of people,
• 21:38
  Shannon Jean: you know, don't want that. They feel like it's a conflict thing,
• 21:41
  Shannon Jean: right? Where you're trying to avoid conflict by not, but you're just wasting everybody's time.
• 21:45
  Shannon Jean: Find out what the number is if it's based on that. And, you know,
• 21:49
  Shannon Jean: ideally you find out the number and you work it backwards, right?
• 21:53
  Shannon Jean: You qualify the lead, find out what they want to spend, ask them what they want,
• 21:58
  Shannon Jean: and you prepare your proposal based on that. To fill it. That's right. You filled their need.
• 22:03
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, that's it.
• 22:05
  Shannon Jean: Absolutely. All right.
• 22:07
  Dave Hamilton: So what's the big takeaway? What's the big takeaway here, Shannon? Yeah, exactly.
• 22:10
  Shannon Jean: For me, the big takeaway is you have to stick around long enough to let the
• 22:15
  Shannon Jean: exponential growth opportunities hit you in your business.
• 22:19
  Shannon Jean: However you want to say it. But I think that's the takeaway for me.
• 22:23
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, I think that's it. Yeah. Stick around long enough to take advantage of the
• 22:27
  Dave Hamilton: opportunities that will eventually come. You got to persist.
• 22:31
  Shannon Jean: Chutes and ladders is a close second.
• 22:34
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah well i mean it is all the chutes and ladders but yeah but if we're gonna
• 22:38
  Dave Hamilton: if we're gonna say it in a way that would make sense to somebody that didn't
• 22:41
  Dave Hamilton: just listen to the episode yes you gotta persist uh you know
• 22:45
  Dave Hamilton: you gotta stick yeah stick around long enough to take advantage of the eventual
• 22:49
  Dave Hamilton: opportunities uh yeah yeah i like it
• 22:53
  Dave Hamilton: thank you uh thanks for hanging out with us folks thanks for um
• 22:59
  Dave Hamilton: i know we've actually got some some of your email here and we'll get there good
• 23:04
  Dave Hamilton: you know yeah it's good stuff
• 23:05
  Shannon Jean: Come back on friday.
• 23:07
  Dave Hamilton: We're gonna do friday i aren't we shannon yes we are as we do every friday stick
• 23:11
  Dave Hamilton: around well don't stick around but uh we'll come back friday keep living that
• 23:15
  Dave Hamilton: charmed life in the meantime see you see you