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Book Club: Climate is Just the Start · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and smitha I'm looking to stuff
0:07
Speaker 1: Never Told You production of I Heard You, And today
0:19
Speaker 1: we are actually doing the thing we always say we're
0:22
Speaker 1: going to do when it comes to book club. We
0:25
Speaker 1: are talking about a book written by someone recently featured
0:29
Speaker 1: on Activists around the World. Ah, we always say we're
0:34
Speaker 1: going to do it and then it gets on the list.
0:36
Speaker 2: But here we are, we're doing it.
0:38
Speaker 3: Follow them.
0:39
Speaker 1: Yes and yes, you can see our recent Activist around
0:43
Speaker 1: the World episode that we did on Mikayla Loach where
0:47
Speaker 1: we did say we would be discussing this book. Loach's
0:51
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five work Climate is just the start and
0:55
Speaker 1: reminder from that episode. Loach is a black climate justice
0:58
Speaker 1: activist and organizer based out of the UK who has
1:01
Speaker 1: just done so much to get her message out there,
1:03
Speaker 1: including writing books like this one. And this work is
1:08
Speaker 1: aimed specifically towards young folks who have grown up hearing
1:13
Speaker 1: doom and gloom frankly messaging around climate change. But it's
1:18
Speaker 1: really hopeful and it offers solutions for change. But it's
1:20
Speaker 1: also very like, I understand why you feel the way.
1:26
Speaker 1: The book feels very much like a conversation. Her writing
1:30
Speaker 1: is really open, it's really friendly. When the book opens,
1:34
Speaker 1: she introduces herself in a very personable way. It describes
1:38
Speaker 1: her own feelings of guilt for her own safety when
1:41
Speaker 1: others are struggling, and wanting to fight that on fairness.
1:46
Speaker 1: She originally thought that being a doctor was the way
1:49
Speaker 1: that she could help because she'd never been exposed to
1:52
Speaker 1: activism when she was younger, or at least not that
1:55
Speaker 1: she registered. But once she was exposed to activism, especially
2:00
Speaker 1: activism around the climate crisis, she started meeting up with
2:03
Speaker 1: activist and engaging with them in a number of ways.
2:07
Speaker 1: This book gives a very succinct, clear breakdown of climate change,
2:12
Speaker 1: climate activism, and what we can.
2:15
Speaker 2: Do about it.
2:16
Speaker 1: It is geared towards eight to twelve year olds, but
2:18
Speaker 1: honestly I find it really helpful too. There are illustrations
2:23
Speaker 1: throughout as well to help make the point clear, to
2:26
Speaker 1: bring it home, and poetry breaks because the topics are heavy.
2:29
Speaker 1: This kind of reminded me of when we were writing
2:31
Speaker 1: our book and we were like, we should put in
2:32
Speaker 1: a little little breaks. Yeah, yes, exactly. On top of that,
2:38
Speaker 1: she uses specific stories from people in different locations about
2:42
Speaker 1: the myriad of ways climate change is impacting them. Just
2:47
Speaker 1: for an example of how friendly her tone is. Here's
2:49
Speaker 1: a quote. We'll have to go back in time to
2:52
Speaker 1: work this out, which means we're going to hop into
2:54
Speaker 1: Mikayla's time machine. It's pink, my favorite color. Fun fact,
2:58
Speaker 1: I pretty much only wear pink, and it's powered by
3:01
Speaker 1: feelings of curiosity, passion, and imagination. We're going to do
3:05
Speaker 1: this a lot throughout the book, so buckle up. It
3:08
Speaker 1: feels to me when I was reading it, it's like
3:10
Speaker 1: a personal letter waiting for response, you know, It's like
3:13
Speaker 1: you have a pen pal or something.
3:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think she does a great job. I
3:17
Speaker 3: don't think we talked much about this during our conversation
3:19
Speaker 3: about her specifically in our activists around the world, but
3:22
Speaker 3: she did talk about the importance and she doesn't talk
3:24
Speaker 3: about it in the book, and I'm sure we're going
3:25
Speaker 3: to discuss it in a second. But the way that
3:29
Speaker 3: she loves pink and is kind of one of her things,
3:32
Speaker 3: a signature for her, and the reasons behind it and
3:35
Speaker 3: why it's so important that she can be I think
3:38
Speaker 3: we did kind of mention that soft black girl aesthetic
3:42
Speaker 3: and how that is important to her. So also not
3:45
Speaker 3: being ashamed of something that she loves that can sometimes
3:48
Speaker 3: be seen as a weakness. It's like it's both levels.
3:51
Speaker 3: So I do love that, and I was telling you
3:53
Speaker 3: earlier I had bought the book from our local bookstore,
3:56
Speaker 3: Caras Books. But I also love like hearing the audio version,
4:00
Speaker 3: especially when the authors are the ones who read it themselves.
4:03
Speaker 3: And in this recording, it's her glorious. Her voice is
4:08
Speaker 3: very soothing and kind. She should be doing this as
4:12
Speaker 3: part of her job as well, because like she does
4:14
Speaker 3: a great job in relaying everything she's writing. And then again,
4:18
Speaker 3: like I said, she's got one of those perfect voices.
4:20
Speaker 3: Her accent in general is just soothing in itself. So
4:24
Speaker 3: if y'all have the time and you want to listen
4:26
Speaker 3: to it and don't have the like physicality of sitting
4:28
Speaker 3: down and reading, or you know, aren't able to, it's
4:31
Speaker 3: a great option because she does voices herself and it's
4:36
Speaker 3: really nice. It is a soothing as you think it is.
4:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is this book tackles
4:46
Speaker 1: such big ideas and explains them in their simplest forms,
4:51
Speaker 1: but in a way that is very It's not patronizing
4:56
Speaker 1: at all.
4:56
Speaker 2: It's just like, we don't have.
4:58
Speaker 1: Time to get into the whole thing here, but very basically,
5:02
Speaker 1: here's what we're talking about. But she does do it
5:05
Speaker 1: in a way, like I said, that is it's very
5:10
Speaker 1: it's very kind, it's very understanding, but it's also very
5:14
Speaker 1: accepting of Yes, this is a difficult topic and it's scary,
5:20
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that, but also
5:24
Speaker 1: don't let that stop you and don't let you yourself
5:27
Speaker 1: freeze and fear because of that. Yeah, it's very hopeful,
5:34
Speaker 1: and it's about two hundred pages, I think, and this
5:39
Speaker 1: is going to be a bit of a shorter episode
5:41
Speaker 1: because I could explain climate change to you, but I
5:47
Speaker 1: feel like you should pick up the book yourself. But
5:51
Speaker 1: a lot of it is those kind of definitions and
5:53
Speaker 1: things like that, So definitely go check it out. As
5:57
Speaker 1: I said, I found it extremely useful for myself and
6:00
Speaker 1: I even feel like I have a good grasp on
6:03
Speaker 1: these concepts.
6:05
Speaker 2: But yes, we're not going to get into.
6:07
Speaker 1: The the whole science of climate change in this one, No, no,
6:14
Speaker 1: no no, But we do have some things we wanted
6:16
Speaker 1: to discuss and one of the big, perhaps the biggest
6:20
Speaker 1: themes of this book is environmental justice, and that is
6:26
Speaker 1: kind of where Loach aligns a lot of her work,
6:30
Speaker 1: And we've talked about that a lot before, because, like everything,
6:35
Speaker 1: the environment is intersectional and there's a lot of things
6:39
Speaker 1: going on there. But yes, beyond these basic facts of
6:44
Speaker 1: climate change, of how it works and what's fueling it, consumption,
6:50
Speaker 1: the history, colonization, racism, sexism, white supremacy, reparations, capitalism, like
6:56
Speaker 1: these are the topics she's she's delving into in this book,
7:02
Speaker 1: which are all obviously related, but I feel like sometimes
7:05
Speaker 1: we sanitize it for kids. But she she's like, no,
7:11
Speaker 1: this is why, this is why it's happening. This is
7:15
Speaker 1: all of that. So here are a couple quotes. One is, sorry,
7:19
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this. Have you ever heard of
7:21
Speaker 1: the Overton window?
7:22
Speaker 3: I have not. I mean, this book really helps, like
7:25
Speaker 3: I know this for kids. But this is also where
7:27
Speaker 3: we talk about how education is not great in public schools,
7:31
Speaker 3: and it is like authors and researchers and activists like
7:34
Speaker 3: her that teach us a lot. I wish we had known.
7:37
Speaker 3: I had known as a kid. I'm like, oh my god,
7:38
Speaker 3: know what it is?
7:39
Speaker 2: I did not know.
7:41
Speaker 1: Nope, me either, me either. All right, So quote, the
7:46
Speaker 1: Overton window is a tool for identifying ideas a majority
7:49
Speaker 1: of people find sensible, popular, or acceptable. Think of it
7:52
Speaker 1: like a vibe check, but for the whole country or
7:54
Speaker 1: the whole world. Governments, politicians, and activists all use it
7:58
Speaker 1: to measure the possibility for chain at a moment and
8:00
Speaker 1: time on an issue, would people find it unthinkable, radical,
8:04
Speaker 1: maybe popular? For any given issue, the closer the Overton
8:08
Speaker 1: window gets to the middle, the more likely a government
8:11
Speaker 1: will have the opportunity to change laws or change policy
8:13
Speaker 1: about it. I wanted to include this because I've actually
8:17
Speaker 1: I've thought about this stuff a lot, and I didn't
8:20
Speaker 1: know it was a thing, Like I know it was
8:21
Speaker 1: a thing, but I didn't know there was a term,
8:24
Speaker 1: but like that idea of we just need to get
8:26
Speaker 1: enough people to be on board with this, and then
8:31
Speaker 1: we could finally change But keeping that in mind of
8:35
Speaker 1: always questioning are enough people on board with this, right, well,
8:40
Speaker 1: they go along? So I when I read that, I
8:43
Speaker 1: was I felt kind of a huh, yes that. And then,
8:52
Speaker 1: as there should be in any discussion about climate change.
8:55
Speaker 1: There is a lot of discussion about capitalism in this book,
9:01
Speaker 1: and we have a couple quotes throughout the episode about it.
9:05
Speaker 1: But here's one Capitalism is like a giant python wrapped
9:10
Speaker 1: around us and the world, squeezing out everything it possibly can.
9:14
Speaker 1: It is that strong and that powerful. And now that
9:17
Speaker 1: I've explained a little bit about what it is, let's
9:20
Speaker 1: end this chapter with a thought about what it means
9:22
Speaker 1: for our future. Simply put, capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with
9:27
Speaker 1: the continuation of human life on Earth. That's a strong statement.
9:31
Speaker 1: There's no way around it. For capitalism to ultimately succeed,
9:35
Speaker 1: the majority of life on Earth would have to die.
9:39
Speaker 3: Yeah.
9:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I said, she doesn't shy away from the truth,
9:44
Speaker 1: but she's also has a hopeful like we can change it, right, it.
9:49
Speaker 2: Doesn't have to be this way.
9:51
Speaker 3: One of the things I thought about this book in
9:54
Speaker 3: conversation in general, is that we don't hear often what
9:58
Speaker 3: capitalism can do, especially when you're growing up again. I've
10:02
Speaker 3: been out of high school in midle school for a while,
10:04
Speaker 3: but when we learned about capitalism, it just seemed like
10:06
Speaker 3: a natural progress of like understanding that this is how
10:09
Speaker 3: you succeed m m, but how it really is not
10:14
Speaker 3: as great as you think it is, Like you don't
10:15
Speaker 3: learn that to your adulthood. So she's really putting it
10:18
Speaker 3: out there as a way, like a let's teach the
10:20
Speaker 3: young what this actually looks like, especially today.
10:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I completely agree.
10:28
Speaker 1: I think that being exposed to that idea when you're younger,
10:31
Speaker 1: and I as much as our education system is under
10:35
Speaker 1: siege right now of trying to get rid of any
10:38
Speaker 1: materials that don't paint like the white supremacists past, I
10:43
Speaker 1: do think that the younger, younger folks today are they're
10:47
Speaker 1: having more questions than I was at that age.
10:49
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah, I mean that social media is connecting.
10:54
Speaker 3: And I will say when I was reading this book,
10:56
Speaker 3: I was just thinking that one of is such timing
11:01
Speaker 3: with what we're seeing in the youth doing today, with
11:03
Speaker 3: the protests and like, because to me, this book, yes,
11:06
Speaker 3: is about all the changes and learning these things, but
11:09
Speaker 3: it also was a call on how to do activism correctly.
11:14
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, and I think I've seen
11:16
Speaker 3: a lot of youth really doing it right, like they
11:18
Speaker 3: are really getting it right, and very proud to see
11:21
Speaker 3: the younger generations, maybe with all of the other things
11:24
Speaker 3: that we're so disheartened by seeing kids who understand what
11:27
Speaker 3: is to have morality and stand up for others. And
11:30
Speaker 3: I feel like books like these are so important to
11:32
Speaker 3: kind of align people to understand because she talks about
11:34
Speaker 3: organizing and I was like, oh, this is so important.
11:37
Speaker 3: How do we get this book out there? Because part
11:38
Speaker 3: of that is that conversation too.
11:41
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely, And she does have, like as with
11:46
Speaker 1: a lot of books like this, she has a lot
11:48
Speaker 1: of good resources and she has a lot of good
11:49
Speaker 1: tips on how to organize and ways to if you're
11:54
Speaker 1: feeling guilt, how you can alleviate that, even small way
11:59
Speaker 1: or way all the different ways that can look which well, yeah,
12:03
Speaker 1: we'll discuss more.
12:04
Speaker 2: In a second.
12:15
Speaker 1: Another thing she really hammers home also can't talk about
12:20
Speaker 1: climate changer without talking about this, is that, yes, it
12:22
Speaker 1: hurts some people more than others, and specifically marginalized communities.
12:26
Speaker 1: That hurts marginalized communities more than others. And I thought
12:30
Speaker 1: it was interesting because she does this kind of reflecting
12:35
Speaker 1: of when she was a kid and how she felt.
12:38
Speaker 1: And one of the things she kept bringing up was unfairness,
12:45
Speaker 1: that it was unfair, but also big emotions, which we
12:51
Speaker 1: are going to come back to as well on the second.
12:53
Speaker 1: But you know, when you're a kid, those kind of
12:56
Speaker 1: it does feel unfair and it maybe it does feel
12:59
Speaker 1: too big and your emotions are too big. But here's
13:03
Speaker 1: a quote. It's because some people want more money for
13:06
Speaker 1: themselves and do not care if the rest of us
13:09
Speaker 1: live or die. That might be a difficult thing to hear.
13:12
Speaker 1: Maybe it feels to you like one of those situations
13:15
Speaker 1: that just doesn't make sense, and you're right, it doesn't.
13:19
Speaker 1: But the people in charge of fossil fuel companies have
13:22
Speaker 1: proven over and over again that they don't care about
13:25
Speaker 1: anyone but themselves, no matter what their fancy advertisements might say. So,
13:31
Speaker 1: once again, getting to telling the youth at an early age,
13:35
Speaker 1: these companies don't care about you. They do not care
13:38
Speaker 1: about you at all. They don't care about anybody except themselves.
13:43
Speaker 2: That is it.
13:45
Speaker 1: And this also really resonated with me. Here's a quote.
13:49
Speaker 1: While we spend hours squeezing our homemade oat milk, these
13:52
Speaker 1: polluting giants pump millions of barrels of oil from the ground.
13:56
Speaker 1: While we obsess over our individual impacts and sit in guilt.
13:59
Speaker 1: The companies and governments that wachas and de carbon heavy
14:03
Speaker 1: lifestyles are getting away with it. Sure, some guilt can
14:06
Speaker 1: be helpful, especially for those of us in highly polluting countries,
14:10
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's the best motivator. I just
14:14
Speaker 1: because she has this whole thing where she's trying so
14:17
Speaker 1: hard to minimize her impact, she's making her own oatmel,
14:22
Speaker 1: she's going out of her way. And then yeah, but
14:28
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Yeah, she.
14:31
Speaker 3: Does an amazing job in this conversation, because I think
14:33
Speaker 3: we've all felt this when we start learning about an
14:36
Speaker 3: issue and we take a deep dive and we get
14:37
Speaker 3: overwhelmed by the horrors that we see. And also she's
14:42
Speaker 3: undoing years of the gas lighting that these companies did
14:47
Speaker 3: to our generation, specifically telling us if we recycle, and
14:51
Speaker 3: she talks about this and if we use paper straws,
14:53
Speaker 3: if we did these, then yes, you could help the environment.
14:56
Speaker 3: It's not us. When again she's like, seventy percent of
14:59
Speaker 3: all this waste and pollution is done by corporations, not us,
15:03
Speaker 3: And sure, like we all want to be better, but
15:05
Speaker 3: like trying to put that responsiblity back on us and
15:08
Speaker 3: not on them while they still make money and cost havoc.
15:11
Speaker 3: It's like a whole new level. So a lot of
15:13
Speaker 3: these times when I was thinking, like, if these kids
15:15
Speaker 3: are reading this book, they're going to come back and
15:17
Speaker 3: tell their mom and they're recycling, Like that doesn't matter,
15:20
Speaker 3: Like coming back with the understanding that this is actually
15:23
Speaker 3: a falsehood, don't stop, and we should still want to
15:27
Speaker 3: do better. Nonetheless, but then the conversation comes back to
15:31
Speaker 3: revealing the truth that took us a long time. Like
15:34
Speaker 3: literally we would just yell at each other about how
15:38
Speaker 3: we were being wasteful. You're you know, you're letting out
15:40
Speaker 3: all the air, You're causing us to do all these
15:43
Speaker 3: things that are bad for the environment. But in actuality,
15:46
Speaker 3: it's not us. Like it's still not great, and we
15:49
Speaker 3: still need to do better, but it's not the big picture.
15:52
Speaker 3: We're talking in small pictures. We're talking about the gaslighting
15:54
Speaker 3: that has happened for years. I still think about Man
15:57
Speaker 3: thirty Rocks really been on my mind. Apparently already Rock
16:00
Speaker 3: did an episode of like are you just gonna put
16:02
Speaker 3: a green peacock on the corner of the screen, say
16:04
Speaker 3: you're doing your part to keep everything, you know, clean
16:07
Speaker 3: up the environment, and that's what you're doing. NBC Okay,
16:09
Speaker 3: like they make fun of themselves, but it's actually very
16:12
Speaker 3: true that it was their doing, and this was their
16:14
Speaker 3: kind of solution, which they talk about greenwashing, which we've
16:18
Speaker 3: talked about pink washing and all of that, and I
16:20
Speaker 3: think we've talked about greenwashing as well. But like it is,
16:23
Speaker 3: it's true, like she really goes after it, like a
16:26
Speaker 3: is so overwhelming the things that you think you need
16:28
Speaker 3: to be doing, But the actual big conversation is going
16:32
Speaker 3: after the big wigs. And I thought about that with
16:34
Speaker 3: like the child labor laws and all of the labor
16:37
Speaker 3: laws that happened around the world and talking about it's
16:40
Speaker 3: not really us just it. Don't get me wrong, Yes,
16:43
Speaker 3: boycotting is very, very very good, and we need to
16:46
Speaker 3: but it's the bigger picture of like going after the
16:48
Speaker 3: companies and come and holding them responsible, penalizing them, arresting them,
16:52
Speaker 3: doing the things that need to be done. But yeah,
16:55
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed the fact that she was able to
16:57
Speaker 3: call that out but also talk about her own experien
17:00
Speaker 3: is of like filling the overwhelming responsibility on harge hid
17:05
Speaker 3: and do everything she can and then having in the
17:08
Speaker 3: light bulb moment of like, oh, oh here's the truth
17:11
Speaker 3: of the matter.
17:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think I've talked about this before.
17:18
Speaker 1: But I was really big into like that was one
17:21
Speaker 1: of the clubs I joined at my university was about
17:25
Speaker 1: the environments.
17:28
Speaker 2: It was kind of a big thing for me.
17:30
Speaker 1: But when I would get really depressed, I would think,
17:32
Speaker 1: like it was the most sad thoughts, but it was like,
17:37
Speaker 1: how many resources I'm taking up? If I just wasn't here,
17:41
Speaker 1: how much better.
17:43
Speaker 2: Would the world be?
17:44
Speaker 1: And I believed it, but it would be so minuscule
17:47
Speaker 1: compared to.
17:50
Speaker 2: What these companies are doing.
17:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how kind of successful they were with their
17:57
Speaker 1: gaslighting and their greenwashing and their well, if you just
18:03
Speaker 1: basically stop existing in our modern world.
18:08
Speaker 4: That's maybe maybe.
18:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
18:15
Speaker 2: Another thing.
18:16
Speaker 1: So, like I said, she has these stories from people
18:20
Speaker 1: who have been highly affected by climate change. One of
18:26
Speaker 1: the ones that really stuck out to me was about
18:29
Speaker 1: her childhood beach in Jamaica, and it was like her
18:31
Speaker 1: favorite beach and she had these really nostalgic memories of it,
18:35
Speaker 1: and during the pandemic, she went to visit it and
18:41
Speaker 1: hadn't been there in a while, and it was just
18:43
Speaker 1: a race, like it was gone because of the water
18:47
Speaker 1: coming in and because of climate change. And she compares
18:52
Speaker 1: that to another story of somebody else she interviewed and
18:57
Speaker 1: or talked to you or was a friend with and
19:01
Speaker 1: they had a similar thing. And there was a quote
19:03
Speaker 1: in there that really stuck out to me, is learning
19:05
Speaker 1: to live with the pain of like it just yeah,
19:09
Speaker 1: the beach is gone and now it's rocks, and so
19:12
Speaker 1: when we go to it, it hurts.
19:13
Speaker 2: But that's we have to learn to live with the pain.
19:16
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of discussion about health as well
19:20
Speaker 1: and how it impacts health, especially of kids, and also
19:25
Speaker 1: everything like everything your daily life, your the food growth
19:30
Speaker 1: around you and thus your health, livelihoods, leisure, just.
19:39
Speaker 2: That learning to live with the pain.
19:40
Speaker 1: It's like everything every day you can't escape it, and
19:46
Speaker 1: it's also really interconnected. I think this was a good
19:50
Speaker 1: I read a really good essay about this when I
19:53
Speaker 1: was in college that just I still think about. But
19:57
Speaker 1: you know, for some of us, at least for me,
19:59
Speaker 1: when I I used to go to the grocery store,
20:01
Speaker 1: I didn't think twice about where anything came from. And
20:04
Speaker 1: the story was about the essay was about like all
20:08
Speaker 1: of the violence behind the like orange I was picking
20:12
Speaker 1: up and I just never knew. I didn't even think
20:16
Speaker 1: to ask about where the orange came from, and so
20:20
Speaker 1: a lot of this she breaks she really breaks down
20:24
Speaker 1: of like where did this fabric come from? Who did
20:27
Speaker 1: the work? How did it get shipped here? Like what
20:29
Speaker 1: ask yourself these questions, and just a real breakdown of
20:36
Speaker 1: like the amount of waste we generate, just things that
20:40
Speaker 1: never get sold, yeah, and choices that we make.
20:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was alarming, like the Mountain, Like will you
20:49
Speaker 3: hear the statistics and you just it just makes.
20:53
Speaker 2: You angry, Yeah, because.
20:57
Speaker 3: You have no control of it, Like you see how
20:59
Speaker 3: the discussing it is. And for the adults, we've known
21:02
Speaker 3: these statistics a little more or at least a chunk
21:07
Speaker 3: of it, like for those who have been in this industry,
21:09
Speaker 3: but hearing it every time stills feel still disheartening because
21:12
Speaker 3: we know that truth has been out there, that it
21:14
Speaker 3: came out as like a shock factor, like oh and
21:17
Speaker 3: I think like maybe probably ten percent of change, Like
21:20
Speaker 3: some grocery stores finally figured it out and they're like, oh,
21:23
Speaker 3: oh yeah, we will donate to local shelters. Then we
21:26
Speaker 3: got you after being called out for all the bad practices,
21:30
Speaker 3: arresting people forgetting trash like what they consider trash rather
21:35
Speaker 3: that is just so disheartening to hear and then like
21:38
Speaker 3: how it could be easily solved, and the fact that
21:41
Speaker 3: there's a solution and it's still not been completed. That's
21:47
Speaker 3: when you just want to start throwing things.
21:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:51
Speaker 1: No, it's very frustrating. And she really does go through
21:58
Speaker 1: like the It was kind of funny because I forgot
22:05
Speaker 1: about that. Uh, just the journal with the voice activated password.
22:10
Speaker 2: She talks about I had one of those two.
22:14
Speaker 3: Oh did you I think this was after my.
22:16
Speaker 1: Oh so cool, But she says in there, like, you know,
22:21
Speaker 1: two weeks later, I didn't use it ever.
22:23
Speaker 3: Again she was talking about. I was like, I had
22:26
Speaker 3: no idea. What what did she say? It was okay,
22:32
Speaker 3: so wow, okay, yeah, I was still in the kyles
22:37
Speaker 3: for the lock and key thing.
22:39
Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
22:42
Speaker 1: Yet, but she she was basically saying that as a
22:46
Speaker 1: way to frame like how long are you gonna want
22:49
Speaker 1: this thing?
22:50
Speaker 2: Yeah?
22:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the amount of waste that's privileged people
22:54
Speaker 3: have is insane, insane and like actually, but there are
23:00
Speaker 3: those moments no no excuse that I'm like, damn.
23:03
Speaker 2: It, I threw it out like that one time.
23:05
Speaker 3: I finally can use anything like damn it.
23:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tossed it yeah, I told the.
23:11
Speaker 3: One that pumps in my head every time like that
23:13
Speaker 3: one time I needed it and not throw it out.
23:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean if you have it, then if
23:19
Speaker 1: you can use it in a different way or she's
23:21
Speaker 1: a big proponent of that too.
23:23
Speaker 3: But it did make me laugh. But that's where my
23:24
Speaker 3: head went first, thing, yes, or seeing how much of
23:28
Speaker 3: value could be You're like.
23:29
Speaker 4: Oh, make me money, and you're like, you came, that's right,
23:34
Speaker 4: that's greed. Sorry, moving on, it's all right, No, but yeah,
23:38
Speaker 4: I did think about that, especially when you talking about
23:40
Speaker 4: fast clothing and we've talked about that as well, and
23:43
Speaker 4: of course, like she also is really great about talking
23:46
Speaker 4: about what you can afford affordability versus what you are
23:52
Speaker 4: privileged to be able to abstain from, yep, and how
23:55
Speaker 4: to do how to work that out of course, like
23:57
Speaker 4: things like Goodwill and all that exists obviously to help
24:02
Speaker 4: us in the US internationally. No, that's a whole different story.
24:06
Speaker 4: But like when you have consignment stores that aren't making
24:09
Speaker 4: try to make profit, but it is better for the environment,
24:12
Speaker 4: and you can look at that finding different ways. But
24:16
Speaker 4: it is also about like some people can only afford
24:19
Speaker 4: the prices of things at Walmart, like to have the
24:23
Speaker 4: sustainability or they have coupons in these areas and they
24:25
Speaker 4: have to use it here. Like the accessibility is a
24:29
Speaker 4: big part of the conversation, and she does a really
24:30
Speaker 4: great job and making sure she addresses that as well,
24:33
Speaker 4: because I've thought about that with like clothing and such,
24:35
Speaker 4: because you don't get some availabilities. You can't find it
24:38
Speaker 4: at department stores because they are outsized or like not
24:42
Speaker 4: accessible for people with disabilities, as that they can't even
24:44
Speaker 4: get in like stuff like that in this level of
24:46
Speaker 4: like okay, or they're not able to shop long periods
24:49
Speaker 4: of time, stuff like that In this conversation is also
24:52
Speaker 4: an understanding that the accessibility is important, whether it's from
24:56
Speaker 4: being able to afford it to physically being able to
24:59
Speaker 4: get to their in this level of conversation.
25:02
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely.
25:06
Speaker 1: Here is another quote putting the blame on humans are
25:12
Speaker 1: all of us is far too vague. It feeds into
25:14
Speaker 1: the same cycles of guilt and shame that can be
25:16
Speaker 1: super unhelpful. When one hundred companies are responsible for seventy
25:19
Speaker 1: one percent of climate crisis causing emissions since nineteen eighty eight,
25:23
Speaker 1: and the richest one percent of the world's population produce
25:26
Speaker 1: more than double the carbon emissions of the poorest half
25:29
Speaker 1: of the world. We did not cause the climate crisis.
25:34
Speaker 1: To say any of these catch off words to allocate
25:36
Speaker 1: responsibility is to let the small percentage of people who
25:39
Speaker 1: are actually responsible off the hook. We can't afford to
25:42
Speaker 1: do that, And then continues when we talk about responsibility,
25:47
Speaker 1: when we talk about consumption, it's not as simple as
25:49
Speaker 1: it might seem at first. Those who can afford to
25:52
Speaker 1: or are able to make more climate friendly changes should
25:55
Speaker 1: make those changes. We will all have to live our
25:58
Speaker 1: lives differently in order to meet climate targets, and we
26:01
Speaker 1: should all be open to change. But a lot of
26:04
Speaker 1: these changes, like insulating homes, aren't accessible to most people now,
26:09
Speaker 1: so we need to persuade governments to make them accessible
26:12
Speaker 1: rather than guilting or putting the responsibility on the people
26:16
Speaker 1: who don't have a choice in the matter. So going
26:18
Speaker 1: back to your point, Smith, Yes, yes, one thing we're
26:23
Speaker 1: not going to go too deep into in this conversation,
26:27
Speaker 1: but I did want to mention is that she discusses
26:31
Speaker 1: the money that went into from these companies that went
26:35
Speaker 1: into climate denial of basically saying climate change is not real?
26:42
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? Which was a big thing
26:45
Speaker 1: when I was in college.
26:46
Speaker 2: I remember this.
26:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they might be in our offices now
26:50
Speaker 3: like governmental forces now they want to misuse the term
26:55
Speaker 3: global warming and you want to just smack them. Maybe
27:00
Speaker 3: we should give them this book they can under comprehend.
27:04
Speaker 2: They would never read it. We would have to trick them.
27:07
Speaker 3: It wouldn't get arrested.
27:09
Speaker 1: To you, yes, yes, But I didn't want to put
27:14
Speaker 1: that in there because I'm interested to see how younger
27:17
Speaker 1: folks if that's still as big as it was when.
27:23
Speaker 3: I was young, right, what they see?
27:25
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mm hm, Any listeners, let us know. But
27:29
Speaker 1: I remember having this debate in college. I was in
27:33
Speaker 1: a debate class. So our final theme is hope, because,
27:50
Speaker 1: as we've said, this is a really hopeful book. It's
27:53
Speaker 1: really palpable how hopeful she is and how important she thinks.
27:58
Speaker 2: That hope is. When it comes to this.
28:01
Speaker 1: She tackles these ideas of it's too late, we can't
28:07
Speaker 1: do anything, it's too late, and giving up and she says, nope,
28:12
Speaker 1: absolutely not. And here's a quote tackling the roots, toppling
28:18
Speaker 1: and composting the tree of injustice and oppression. That is
28:21
Speaker 1: climate justice work. It's not simple or easy, but it
28:24
Speaker 1: is worth doing. It is also possible. So she has
28:29
Speaker 1: this metaphor for this tree that's rotting and people, you know,
28:36
Speaker 1: might try taking off some of the leaves, or they
28:38
Speaker 1: might try taking off some of the branches, but the
28:40
Speaker 1: roots are the problem and it's killing the whole like
28:44
Speaker 1: every other tree, everything else that tries to grow. So
28:49
Speaker 1: we've got to go to the roots of the problem.
28:55
Speaker 1: And yes, as I said, not letting fear control you.
28:58
Speaker 1: She really throughout the book makes the point about reminding
29:03
Speaker 1: you of that.
29:04
Speaker 2: Here's a quote.
29:05
Speaker 1: My dad made it clear that I didn't have to
29:08
Speaker 1: and couldn't fix everything, but he also said that didn't
29:11
Speaker 1: mean I couldn't do anything at all. And that moment
29:14
Speaker 1: I understood that you don't have to be a perfect
29:16
Speaker 1: hero to take action. Whatever we can do matters. If
29:20
Speaker 1: we can save one person, make one life a bit
29:23
Speaker 1: better or a bit safer, it matters. How could that
29:26
Speaker 1: not matter? Yeah, it was a really cute story she did,
29:31
Speaker 1: like a bake sale.
29:33
Speaker 3: We kind of mentioned it actually in the act part
29:37
Speaker 3: where she kind of started her origins. But I think
29:41
Speaker 3: she does a great job. Throughout the book. You talked
29:43
Speaker 3: about her metaphors and illustrations, and here and then she
29:48
Speaker 3: does a great job in several ways and breaking down
29:51
Speaker 3: different ways, talking about catalysts and talking about colonialization. She
29:54
Speaker 3: gives it a bit good way of like understanding what
29:57
Speaker 3: this is for any parents or aunties or any of
30:02
Speaker 3: the people who have children in their lives. I think
30:04
Speaker 3: this is a great book. I think making sure you
30:07
Speaker 3: have a discussion at the beginning at the end of
30:09
Speaker 3: this so that they don't get overwhelmed in all of
30:12
Speaker 3: this information, because it can be overwhelming to see, especially
30:15
Speaker 3: like an empathetic child like that. Yeah, that's the hardest
30:20
Speaker 3: in trying to let them understand how big this is.
30:22
Speaker 3: But I really think she does a great job and
30:27
Speaker 3: breaking down things that we should have learned as a
30:29
Speaker 3: kid to begin with. But of course corporations would not
30:31
Speaker 3: want you to this, absolutely, it would be one of
30:34
Speaker 3: those things that people would say was woke, which is
30:37
Speaker 3: not a bad thing again, but it's just that level
30:40
Speaker 3: of like this is a great way in cultivating someone
30:45
Speaker 3: who you know could be a great activist.
30:47
Speaker 1: I think yes, absolutely, And going back to what you
30:52
Speaker 1: said and what I mentioned, earlier is that this book
30:56
Speaker 1: is pretty heavy in ways, and she does talk about
31:02
Speaker 1: having big feelings, and so I wanted to read two
31:06
Speaker 1: quotes about it because I just think they're so important.
31:11
Speaker 1: Maybe these situations have made you feel really sad. I
31:14
Speaker 1: know I still cry regularly when I hear news about
31:16
Speaker 1: our climate crisis, read stories about injustice, or learn about
31:20
Speaker 1: a tragedy on social media. My heart breaks often when
31:24
Speaker 1: asking questions about things that don't make sense in our world.
31:27
Speaker 1: Has anyone ever told you, look, it's just the way
31:29
Speaker 1: the world is, or that's something you'll understand when you're older.
31:34
Speaker 1: I was a kid who asked lots of questions and
31:36
Speaker 1: adults would answer me like this. I asked but why
31:40
Speaker 1: a lot? And I was rarely satisfied with the response.
31:43
Speaker 1: I couldn't help wondering why is this just the way
31:47
Speaker 1: the world is? Honestly why? But lots of adults wouldn't
31:53
Speaker 1: want to get into it, and something seemed different about them.
31:56
Speaker 1: They cried less than I did, and sure sometimes for
31:59
Speaker 1: understanding reasons, but they also felt less and that was
32:03
Speaker 1: celebrated like it was a good thing, like it was
32:06
Speaker 1: better to not feel things deeply, to not cry or
32:09
Speaker 1: be moved by injustice, but instead to look through or
32:11
Speaker 1: past it. This made no sense to me. It still doesn't.
32:16
Speaker 1: If someone is so tough that they never cry about anything,
32:20
Speaker 1: this is seen as strength. If someone can witness or
32:23
Speaker 1: experience something sad, scary, or tragic and seem untroubled by it,
32:27
Speaker 1: this is somehow rewarded as bravery. I see it differently.
32:32
Speaker 1: I think it's braver to feel heartbreak, even if it hurts.
32:37
Speaker 1: I love that so much because you know, not only
32:42
Speaker 1: could we talk about that in terms of toxic masculinity,
32:46
Speaker 1: but I completely agree. I think it's much harder to
32:52
Speaker 1: have your heart broken over and over again. And I
32:55
Speaker 1: think people in any kind of activism work or work
32:59
Speaker 1: where you care about other people, it requires that, and
33:05
Speaker 1: that's a strength, that's a It's difficult, and so I'm
33:11
Speaker 1: really glad that she made sure to put this in there,
33:17
Speaker 1: and too, you know, for the readers who are probably younger,
33:23
Speaker 1: a lot of them say, it doesn't make sense to
33:27
Speaker 1: me either, This makes no sense.
33:30
Speaker 2: You should care. Why would you not care?
33:32
Speaker 3: I mean, she definitely puts it in a great way
33:34
Speaker 3: of saying, make sure you know what you feel like,
33:37
Speaker 3: feel those big feelings but don't get overwhelmed by those feelings,
33:41
Speaker 3: which is a hard place to be, Like, trying to
33:43
Speaker 3: figure that out can be a tricky, tricky part.
33:47
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I mean, I'm sure the listeners of
33:52
Speaker 1: this show, no, we know, but it's hard when you're
33:56
Speaker 1: trying to make change when everything's so bad, or even
34:01
Speaker 1: just talk about what's going on and everything is so bad,
34:03
Speaker 1: and sometimes that does mean, you know what, I'm going
34:07
Speaker 1: to take a day, just gonna pause for a minute,
34:12
Speaker 1: but not to not like bury.
34:14
Speaker 2: Those feelings and never confront them. Yeah.
34:17
Speaker 3: She talks about how doing things like pick it out
34:22
Speaker 3: in poetry, write it out, feel that those feelings, get
34:24
Speaker 3: those moments, but also understand you are not wholly responsible
34:28
Speaker 3: for this situation.
34:30
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly.
34:33
Speaker 1: And then to end, she perhaps obviously is a big
34:39
Speaker 1: proponent of working together of community, of how we can
34:44
Speaker 1: make change through that, and how your activism can inspire
34:52
Speaker 1: others to do the same, and then the movement gets
34:55
Speaker 1: bigger because their activism will expire inspire other people to
35:00
Speaker 1: do the same. Of having these connections and imagination. I
35:05
Speaker 1: love that she has a whole section about, you know,
35:08
Speaker 1: imagining a better world without limitations, like don't that kind
35:13
Speaker 1: of child imagination. Don't put those limitations on yourself, and
35:18
Speaker 1: move beyond like systems like capitalism. And she even includes
35:23
Speaker 1: examples of how that's looked of certain societies where that
35:29
Speaker 1: has happened. So it's not like it can't happen, so
35:34
Speaker 1: just to take those limitations off. And she ends on
35:38
Speaker 1: this really hopeful message of the power of young people.
35:42
Speaker 1: And here's a final quote. Hope is active. Hope is alive,
35:46
Speaker 1: but only if we organize to keep it that way.
35:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
35:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fantastic read. It's really good.
35:56
Speaker 3: Yes, really, if you're in the car to get Yeah,
36:01
Speaker 3: it's available on all the platforms, so if you have
36:04
Speaker 3: any access to that, you should definitely do that. But
36:06
Speaker 3: also you should buy the book at independent bookstore if
36:09
Speaker 3: you can to get the illustrations.
36:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, the illustrations are cute. Yes, so go check it out,
36:18
Speaker 1: really really really recommend Yes. Would love to hear from listeners.
36:23
Speaker 1: If you have read it, or if you have any
36:25
Speaker 1: suggestions about.
36:27
Speaker 2: What we should do next.
36:29
Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at Stuffnever Told You
36:31
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
36:33
Speaker 1: mol Stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff
36:35
Speaker 1: I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have
36:38
Speaker 1: some merchandise that Common Hero, and we have a book
36:39
Speaker 1: you can get where you get your books. Thanks. It's
36:41
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Re Senior Executive produced, my
36:44
Speaker 1: indercontributor Joey.
36:45
Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for.
36:46
Speaker 1: Listening Stuff Never Told You Prediction by Heart Radio. For
36:49
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