Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Martin Lindsey MD of Integrity Wealth Solutions on how building professional connections helped push his IFA practice forward

Transcript

Martin Lindsey MD of Integrity Wealth Solutions on how building professional connections helped push his IFA practice forward · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Martin Lindsay on the Financial Planner Life podcast for Integrity Wealth Solutions.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And today we talk about the power of building strong relationships with accountants to generate quality referrals and how being a jack of all trades is not a good idea, and you should fully understand what your niche is.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about his career moving from bank assurance to self-employed and to eventually running his own IFA practice.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: The impact that COVID has had on the culture of his business in an incredibly positive way.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we also talk about the power of a business coach in helping you get to the next level in running your IFA practice.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Martin, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, my man?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very good, thanks.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sound very good.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: The sun's shining a little bit.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's starting to creep through, isn't it?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've had like two weeks of absolute miserable weather.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think everybody is absolutely off the back of the good news as well around easing of lockdown.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody's sort of mentally getting themselves into almost summertime, don't they, when they see a bit of sunshine creep through about this time of the year.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone's thinking about beer gardens.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they are.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I I live in I live on the waterfront in Bristol.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um honestly, it's like I stepped outside of my flat yesterday, walked, walked down in the evening to go meet somebody, and the whole of the waterfront, everybody was out drinking and getting right on it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you could just tell like people's mindset changes when a bit of sunshine comes out.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't blame them to be honest.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's long overdue, isn't it?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're all looking forward to having some nice time with our friends and um back to hopefully a bit more normality.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: My main focus is getting my daughter back to work.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh work, getting my daughter back to school, because um bless her, I think she's losing the plot at home.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um and my wife is, because I'm not helping out massively.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm terrible.
• 2:22
  unknown: Right.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Counting down two weeks to go, I think, till back to school, isn't it?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the countdown, the countdown begins.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so you put the puppy away, you've got your new dog, lockdown dog, put the puppy away, and let's have a conversation now today about your career within financial planning, a little bit about your business, so our listeners can understand what it's like to be a business owner within financial planning, because I really enjoy bringing on people that run their own businesses within financial planning.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a completely different skill set required, I believe, also to just um being a financial planner.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it inspires people also to run their own businesses because right now I think the financial planning profession is in a start-up period.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we are moving into a period where a lot of advisors are going to be exiting out of the industry, and there's a lot of entrepreneurial people now sitting within financial planning.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the next generation coming is going to be more entrepreneurial as well.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I do like this feeling and the language I I've been starting to use around it being a startup period for financial planning.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great opportunity for people to set their own practices up, um, as long as they can afford the PI cover, etc.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, Martin, tell us a little bit about yourself then.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when did you decide that financial planning was the career for you?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I mean, I I I I sort of fell into it, I suppose.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like most people, I don't think any, I don't think there's many people at school thinking I want to be a financial planner.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Although having said that, I've heard a few people more recently talking about that.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's generally for people that uh uh enjoy maths, but it's more about social skills, uh, I think.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, in terms of myself, I I I I fell into banking at the age of 18, as it's it was a it was a career for life, as my dad told me.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Join a bank, uh, and uh that'd be uh that'll be you done industry for the rest of your life.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I joined banking at 18, uh, worked through the ranks sort of fairly fairly quickly there, uh actually.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I got to the age of uh 20 20, two years in, and it was uh the new hot word was bank assurance then, uh, which I'm not sure if you remember those sorts of things.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very much so.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: So bank assurance, and I thought, well, this looks pretty cool, this does, and it's uh it's gonna help me sort of progress my career.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I went down that route of bank assurance and uh qualified at 21 and uh yeah, did uh did a good couple of years with the bank.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not not too sure I knew too much about what I was talking about at the time.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Although you know the training was exceptional in terms of getting you past your exams.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I think with the with with any when you're working for any one organisation, you only get to understand their products and you don't realise what a big a big world is out there.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh from then, yeah, I let I left the bank at I think it was 23.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh went to work with my old boss from the bank, self-employed.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we're out of the into the the whole sort of uh waters of uh of self-employment and the risks that that takes at uh at 23.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: But uh at that point was before I'd got a mortgage uh or children, so uh wasn't you know it's a bit easy to make that decision when you've got less commitments uh really for uh for that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think at 23, I've I've changed from being in investments to more mortgage focused.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think at 23, when you're not you've not got the resources of a big bank uh brand around you, people aren't going to take a 23, 24-year-old that seriously, you know, investing large amounts of their money.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit more mortgage-based there.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I did that for a couple of years, but I got frustrated about being tied.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I realized again, I was I was tied advisor then uh to legal in general, and I thought, well, this is a the big world of independence out there that want to want to want to get to.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I always felt you're not really giving clients the full the full service by being tied to one.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's this there's so yeah, as we all know, there's a broader spectrum of products out there, and different providers uh have different specialist areas for that.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, I set up my first IFA practice at 25 with uh two colleagues.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: This was uh a steep learning curve because none of us none of us have been independent, uh and uh at a very fairly young age, very green, really.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so we set this company up and we learnt a lot.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I wouldn't say we were that successful in what we did, but we probably we we we learnt a lot of well, a lot a lot of things that going back we would have done differently.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we we we realized we tried to run before we could walk.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So then uh we then actually uh moved the company into another uh uh IFA practice and uh became registered individuals uh for that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did that for a few years and that was going very well.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Great environment so with some very experienced uh IFAs, uh went through the whole RDR uh period, etc.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I suppose one thing that's been in final service has taught me is you need to be adaptable because this industry is changing all the time.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not going to change, then uh this isn't the industry, industry for you.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so went very well there, but I started working with uh with with building on professional connections uh and like networking, uh you know, business breakfast meetings, BNIs, those sort of things.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there's one firm of county that I worked very closely with.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we decided to do a joint venture.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh started off a joint venture.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh myself and uh Dave, who is our compliance officer now.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he wasn't our compliance officer at the time.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were an appointed rep.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we sent an appointed rep company uh as a joint venture with his county practice, and that really sort of spiraled where we're where we're going from there.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and the business really just sort of grew, uh grew and grew uh from there.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing we found was uh working as a joint venture with a county company was good because it gave us access to their clients, but it also instilled credibility among yourself.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think within the professional organizations, your lawyers and accountants, they possibly don't look at uh as as financial partners being on the same level playing field as them.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's changing, it's getting more more structured that way.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um the business the business continue to grow.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh we we we got to the point where we we we felt that being uh a joint venture with one accountancy company was was then probably holding us back a little bit uh with regards to that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we did uh a management buyout, um, and uh so we're not we're not tied to any anyone accounting practice.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: We established our own brand.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this was a couple of years ago, uh, which is which is when sort of integrity was solutions really where the brand really got pushed from that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, business has gone from strength to strength.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every year we've uh we've we've we've had exponential growth.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh yeah, yeah, uh never not look never looked back at all.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been uh quite an interesting uh uh few years.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was a really comprehensive overview.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much for that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that sort of stands out to me, 21 years old going into bank assurance pre-RDR.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for those listening, you know, the bank and bank assurance was a fantastic place for trainees and a great, you know, as you mentioned, a great training ground to get you to get your qualifications and to get you in front of clients, especially pre-RDR, where you didn't need to be level four qualified.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the experience and that practical experience you gained was invaluable.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there were so many financial planners knocking around at the time.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, great ground.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, the guys that are out there becoming financial planners now don't really have that access, do they?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they don't have the ability to go in as a trainee in such an environment that will help speed their career development up, which is a shame.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so 21 to 23 then.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So 23, you decided to go self-employed.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that is brave at 23 years old.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what was the reality like at 23 years old when you did that?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you moved into mortgages, you weren't given investment advice by the sounds of it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Was it as um, you know, what was your what was your motivation at that point?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was that because you just were fed up with being on the payroll or you felt that you had loads of connections, you could make more money?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: What was your motivation to go self-employed?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because plenty of people, especially now, actually younger, are thinking I could do this myself.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: But what was that?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: What was your motivation at the time?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: What was it that drove you to go self-employed at such a young age?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: That eventually I knew that I wanted to do something on my own.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh going self-employed.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it was a bit easier because it was with uh an old colleague that I worked with, the banker, he already set up an established uh uh practice.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so it's predominantly mortgages, but we're doing some investments and pensions.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you know, at the age of 23, you're not many people are going to take you, you know, you you too seriously too seriously at that age, uh, especially when you've not got the comfort of a big banking brand behind you.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, motivation was really, I just thought it sort of saw that as being the next step I wanted to go.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I like the flexibility, etc., that you get by being self-employed.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I say to people, don't go self-employed to uh to think you're gonna work less.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You will work, you will double your hours, you won't double your, you don't won't double your profit, etc.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the time, I suppose it was relatively uh it was relatively easy.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So at this moment of the time house prices were going up.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, there was it's very easy for people to borrow money as well.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um easy as we later found out in the credit in the in the credit crunch.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also at my age, a lot of people I knew were looking to buy looking to buy properties.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I had an abundance of clients from people I knew or friends and friends.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So so that really sort of did help me.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think being in that whole period where where people are looking to borrow and banks are willing to borrow, uh, that that that that made it a lot easier.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was also very, as you just alluded to there, it was a very lucrative time to be a mortgage advisor, wasn't it?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was it wasn't unusual for mortgage advisors to earn considerable money um uh back then.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I spoke to a fair few.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I hired a couple of mortgage advisors when you mentioned there about the credit crunch.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd sit down with them to come become recruitment consultants because after the credit crunch, you couldn't place a mortgage advisor for love nor money.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they just couldn't, they just couldn't get the um couldn't get the business.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And some of them were earning some considerable money, you know, when the mortgages were out there doing it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was one of those, one of those mugs that bought the Northern Rock, um, the Northern Rock uh mortgage, the hundred percent, well 110%, I think it was at the time.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, easy to flog a mortgage back then, wasn't it?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great stuff.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you went into the world of self-employment, but that sort of sparked obviously an interest for you to continue on on that path.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And as you all progressed through your career and your confidence grew, you decided look, there's a bigger world out there in the IFA world, become independent and then move back into this uh world of pensions and investments.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think it was just that that it was natural progression really then.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh being tied to one brand again, it was just I just didn't see that I was giving justice to my clients.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, right, you need to go independent.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: That that that's the place for it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm still a big believer about that, and you need to be independent to offer the the best advice for your clients.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I often get people approach me asking me, Sam, do you think I should go down the mortgage route first before becoming a financial planner?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is that going to be um useful experience for me?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a good route to go down?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on that?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone says 23 years old, 21, 22, bit like a bit like you were, do you think it's advisable to become a mortgage advisor, or do you think they should push forward their level four diploma qualifications and start the process of becoming a financial planner?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably I think there's certainly some merits in doing mortgage advice first because a big part of our job is the people skills.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you've got to get the people skills there, uh, people buy from people, uh, and it's about getting people to open up.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think going if it seems more about mortgage, it's probably an easier process than going down the invest the investment side of things.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a good place to put your teeth on, uh, I think.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and also if you're looking from uh yeah, the type of clients you're looking to get involved with at a relatively young age, you're gonna be it's gonna be easier for you to deal with someone who's of a similar age to a similar age to you.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, say for example, you were approached by someone who's looking for a job, a candidate, and they had a maybe let's say two years' experience working as a mortgage advisor and they were working towards their RO exams, perhaps they were partly qualified, you knew they were going to qualify in the next three to six months, let's say.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Would you prefer that type of person over to over somebody, say, who's got their level four qualification but doesn't have any practical experience of sitting down with clients in some form of capacity to give some form of financial advice?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've it's it's about having those people skills.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so it's not just about passing passing exams.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh obviously you do need exams in this industry, uh, but you've got to have the people skills.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: But the the biggest thing is attitude, because I always say you can't teach attitude.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's got the right attitude, they will they will they they they will certainly do well in this in this industry.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, fab.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about let's talk about in let's talk about now setting up um integrity wealth solutions.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, what what when did you set that up?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, Technical Solutions, he was he was initially uh set up next to this joint venture that we did with the with the accountancy practice.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that was our directly authorised company, and then an appointed representative company, which was which was the joint venture with the accountants.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was set up about 10 years ago now.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I would say majority of our business was done uh through this joint venture with the accountants.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh just over two years ago now, is when we we uh we we sort of merged, looked started merging the two businesses into one and we're uh under the new identity for the integrity world solutions uh for that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And a big part of this has been it is working with professional connections.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's our that is our our model, that's how we work well.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: We we are not particularly well at very good at marketing ourselves, uh, which I think most financial services companies do struggle with that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But um, for us, it's you know, you you if you give a high level of service to your existing clients, you'll get refer, you'll get referrals, and that that is probably the best gauge to measure uh how good a service you're giving by by the referrals that you get, but also getting referrals from professional collections as well, your services, your accountants, your insurance brokers, etc.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really interesting to know because obviously I come across lots of different types of financial planners, and some of them are struggling to be able to actually win client relationships.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they're struggling to bring new clients in.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I often sort of dig a bit deeper on them to find out what professional connections they have and what they're doing about developing those professional connections.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the most successful financial planners that I talk to gain referrals at the highest level.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're talking about private client relationships, to you, that's the private client introduced the relationship was originally started with this accountancy firm that you had that joint venture with.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Up until that point, were you sort of advising clients?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Were you sort of generating clients by by word of mouth, if you like, from client to client?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you saw the opportunity with the private client side and building a joint venture with the accountancy firm.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Was that kind of how it works?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, yeah, historically, there's always the traditional market method, I'll get referred friends, family, I'll exist of existing clients.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think what where I tend to see my vision, I suppose, of where I see the market going and sort of fine market is that the the the it's more specialist advice.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think moving forward, going forward, there's you know, the people have got people are personally more interested in their personal finances.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So people with relatively straightforward needs eventually will do these things these things more and more directly themselves.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not so I'm not saying that's the right the right thing to do, but I can see more and more of that happening where people can access SIPs themselves uh uh more directly themselves.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we we've structured the company a little bit like a law firm.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So what we because what I think the general model with uh with uh with finance services is that you are general practitioners, so someone will do a bit of a mortgage, a bit of a bit of a bit of investments, a bit of pensions, and we've said, well, actually, where we see the market going is more specialist, so we we've we we've set ourselves up very similar to a law firm.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone's everyone's obviously level four qualified and above and can give this holistic advice, but then if we've got if we're if we're talking about specific inheritance tax planning, we've got certain members of our uh of our team that are that's got extra qualifications, extra CPD, extra experience in that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: If it's someone who wants to uh you know advice, uh looking at the SaaS and looking at loanbacks and commercial property budgets, we've got specialists here that deal with that that area.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's that's the way that we we see things evolving more and more going forward.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, I like it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So those people that are so you've got people within your business level four qualified, but they're experienced in this sort of more technical issues that might come up for some of these clients, especially in that private client world.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you're looking to form relationships then, I suppose, with solicitors as well.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're having clients come in that need technical, more of a thorough service from a financial planner around tax inheritance, tax planning, et cetera, then you're the go-to guys to be able to do that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So your strategy really is to sort of go out and start to build those relationships and build more joint ventures, not just rely upon the one.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So having that one joint venture at the time was obviously brilliant for you because it got you experienced, it got you working with that accountancy firm, probably, especially as a joint venture, more so than if you were just a financial planner hoping to win some introduced relationships, you were embedded with that accountancy firm.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's probably taught you a great deal about private client relationships and what the accountant goes through, um, as well as where the need for financial planning would be.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then the education piece to those accountants to be able to say, look, why don't you hand that client off to us at this stage and we'll do the same on the other stage as well?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's the bit I think a lot of financial planners struggle with, especially when they're self-employed.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just a struggle to get those relationships with those with those accountancy firms and solicitors at that higher level?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're saying, like, you know, is that a would you say to somebody who is a who's a self-employed financial advisor now, for instance, or perhaps just starting up their own business, would you say really focus your attention on that private client connection with the yeah?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Firstly, you've got to you've got to understand you've got to you've got to decide what is your specialist area, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to specialise in inheritance tax, for example, and be fantastic at that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or do you want to be specializing in business protection, or do you want to be specializing in more complex ventures?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because you cannot be you cannot be a jack of all trades, you've got to have, you've got to have your identity.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, so that uh particularly if you're looking to get in get involved with your with your lawyers, because a lawyer will have their specialist, their specialist area, and they want to speak to someone who's a specialist.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So and you you can't you can't go in and wing it with you know with with pressure.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't, you shouldn't, you shouldn't be doing that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So and you certainly can't, you know, you can't be a specialist in all different areas uh for that.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So pick your niche specialism or build a team of specialists within your practice.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said there, you've alluded to, you're trying to build your financial planning practice almost like a law firm where you've got those specific people that are experts within a specific field.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that in self is almost moving down that private office field, isn't it?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, giving that client the experience that they could move from one person to another who has that relevant experience that can take care of holistically everything.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that word holistic within financial planning, but that holistic approach, if you like, you know, take care of every aspect of that individual client's needs, regardless of the person that they're dealing with.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that kind of almost a bit.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you hear about like the family, do you know what a family office is?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I assume you know what a family office is.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that a family office does that, doesn't it?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's always an expert in every area.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then the client sort of brought in, meets that expert, meets that expert, and then understands that there's a team of people around them that's looking after their well-being and their and their financials.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it kind of builds a confidence then that they're getting a level of service which is reflective in the fee that they're paying.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because obviously, when you mentioned there before as well, there's a lot of there's a lot of access, isn't there, to technology now where clients can just set their own, set their own SIPs up, do their own investments.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a kind of DIY brigade, if you like, out there that are really keen to do this and avoid paying any fees to financial planners to do so.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then there are time poor clients, aren't there, at the higher end that are busy working and expect to almost have a financial planner, are happy to pay a fee according to the service that they're receiving.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I believe you can justify quite a high fee.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: On the lower end, where the advice gap might well sit at the moment, and we're talking about what we can do to offer advice to those types of people.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they're willing to pay a fee, are they, at a higher level for a level of service that they could probably do themselves?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that I think that just continue to evolve as well.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think the the more straightforward advice, people will people will be willing to just go on online research and do it, do it themselves.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we think you know, where our market is working professional connections, but also business owners, it's people who are very good at making money in the business, but they want they want to know that the money they're making is working the best possible.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Big emphasis on tax.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've got to have a you've got to have a very, very good understanding of the tax uh going forward for that.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but we're a big advocate of cash flow modelling.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I started cash flow modelling probably 15 years or so ago.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I bumped into uh Paul Armson, uh well-known in industry, uh, at a PFS conference probably about 15 years ago, and uh and uh he sort of enlightened me into uh into truth uh software.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we've been using that since then.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know I've tried all the different cash flow modelling softwares, but in our business that is embedded.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Every single advisor understands how to use cash flow modelling.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh every single advisor needs to be able to use cash flow modelling in front of a client.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's expensive while your advisors and your power planners have been having these licenses, but it's it's it's this is where you're adding your true value.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Clients don't want a pension, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Clients want to know they can retire at 55 or 60 and they want this level of income, but you need to help build the client's picture, and you need to yeah, yeah, you people don't actually know what the what income they need, they know what they want to want to do.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we we will spend probably an hour going through an expenditure questionnaire with a client.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Normally the husband and wife are arguing at this point as well because the chat wants to do this and the wife wants to do this, but that's the that that you're you're almost um client referred to me that they're like a counsellor when you're speaking to clients as well, because you've got to, and this goes back to these people's skills, you've got to extract that information because people don't always know in their own mind what they want to do, and certainly most occasions the husband wants to do one thing, the wife wants to do another.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you throw that bomb out there and then get out of the room and see them next week was that was have argued out and decided what their objectives are.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the power of that sitting down with them, getting them to open up about perhaps what their fears and concerns are about their future, their worries about it, and then building that financial plan for them with cash flow modelling helps them visualize and see where they could go based on specific spending and events within their lives that where perhaps certain tax situations might come up.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you can predict these problems for them or these issues and then put a plan in place which is visual that they can then see.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea being that it calms their nerves a little bit, trusts gets built with the financial planner, and where, hey, you've got yourself a client.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that kind of how it works?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's about honesty.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you're an independent financial advisor, the only reason that someone's not going to deal with you really is if they don't like you or if your fees are uh own correct.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, yeah, yeah, the sort of world you're always through in some in some ways.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to you've got to know what sort of client you want and what to want to deal with.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you need to have the expertise in yourself, but also in your team around you, so you can you can pull in that expertise as as and where.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: But the number one thing is is getting on with that client and understanding that client.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So what makes that client, what makes that client ticket?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: What's important to that client?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because what's important one client is totally different to another client.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So no, yeah, never judge a book by its cover, is what I always say to people as well.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you yeah, you've you've got to you've got to spend that time to really understand that client for them to buy in to be a proper client and actually uh appreciate the advice that you're you're giving and see value in that advice that you are giving.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: You get told a lot and it gets banded around that financial planning isn't a sales job, you know, it's not a sales job.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to get as far away from it being sales as possible.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm kind of in the camp that you are a salesperson because you have to sell your services.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to be able to sell your services to that client.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're not gonna sell them a product, I get that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a you know, we've moved away from the product selling.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hopefully we have, but it's about selling a service now, isn't it?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Financial planning.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you believe that?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you believe that?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think you know that if to be a good financial planner, you need to learn relationship building skills and perhaps even go back to the basics of what sales is and how to present yourself accordingly.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you get buy-in from clients at that initial level?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think sales is a dirty word, I think, in the industry.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that's the that's the that's that's the issue, I think.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't I don't like the word sales.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we give people advice, but you've got to have the people skills uh for for people to like you, trust you, and yeah, and you've got to have that knowledge there.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you can't you you know you can't wing it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to, you know, more and more now, you know, clients can clients can access information themselves through through the internet.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's not always with the right information, but they can in they've got a whole huge amount of knowledge of information at their disposal.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so if you're if you're going to advise a client in a certain area, you need to be a specialist in that area.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Don't uh and and if you're not a specialist, don't try and dabble in that area.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You refer that on to refer that to someone who's a specialist for that.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: But you do need those skills to extract the information from the client uh to get the client um to uh to to understand what what their plan is in the future because everyone's so busy, everyone's so busy working and making money, they don't really think about well, what do I actually do?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: What am I working for?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: When do what when do I want to retire?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want to do in retirement?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, is retirement for me?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've seen I've seen a number of clients that have retired and then gone, do you know what?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going back to work now.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, whether or not that's because we're going through a pandemic and there's not a lot you can do or not, but yeah, retirement retirement's not not everyone's cup of tea.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but for many people it is their cup of tea, and it's understanding what people want to do.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And this is going back to you, it is a little bit like a counsellor uh for your client to help them understand where what what they want to do with their life.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, I wrote an article for money marketing last week, and um, they were asking my opinion of the types of personalities or people that would best suit becoming a financial planner.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I commented as I always do, around I see financial planning as being like a well-being proposition.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it it does calm people down, and money is a big concern and a big worry for a lot of people out there, regardless of how much if you have very little or if you have a lot, I think it's the same sort of worry across the board.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And seeking financial planning, and I've done it myself, but I sit down with a financial advisor, it totally kind of grounded me and made me feel relaxed and and comfortable knowing that I was doing something about my financial future, and perhaps some of the expectations that I had in my head of where I should be or what I should be doing were actually out of whack, and I was probably doing more than a lot of people out there anyway.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I found the whole experience really grounding and really um, I suppose comforting, really.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the bit, and then when I when I found that and I had that financial planner, and then the relationship started to be to be built between me and the financial planner, I could turn to him and ask him questions, you know, about anything financial.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And vice versa, he's dropping me information through as well.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely see that value there.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And within my article, I wrote about I think teachers would be good financial planners, I think counsellors would be good financial planners because they're good at relationship building, but also they're used to seeing different people at different times with different situations.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a level of emotional intelligence required, isn't there, to be a good uh a good financial planner because you have to kind of gauge where people are, and someone might be totally cool with it all and they'll have loads of information, loads of knowledge, and someone else might have absolutely none but have a load of money in their bank account, you know, because they're flat out in the work arena.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you touched on it earlier, didn't you?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking to business owners, business owners probably like the worst, aren't they?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: They've got to be like flat out, or as I am, flat out all the time.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And like we're expected to think we know about money and and all of that, but actually we're we're sort of head head down, focused on trying to build something, and actually finance becomes second, you know?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: All the time.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, being you particularly more and more, you successful business owners, they uh they work they're not so they're won't they won't have a grasp of their fine their own finances, but they're yeah, they're yeah, successful business owners generally love what they're doing and they will plow everything into into into into that business, and everything else is sort of sidelined, so they'll be making huge amounts of money, but that money's not working properly for them.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and this will cause for them a bit of stress.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Am I paying too much tax?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what uh is my money working properly for me?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, in your eye and you want I know when I want to retire, uh, or I want to sell my business at some point, but actually, I don't know how much I need to get.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I need three million.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you asking why do you need three million?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: No idea.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you go back to your cash flow modelling, you can forecast that for a business owner.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, actually, your your thing is four million, so there's no point in sending three, or actually you only need two million.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, what one of you sell now?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: All about, yeah, it's all about understanding that that that client, what makes them tick, what's their objectives?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that alongside your cash flow, your cash flow modelling, you've got to have the knowledge in in the areas of X that you're going to be an expert in.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you sort of alluded to the fact that you do work with business owners.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that part of your growth strategy along the along with working with more professional introducers like accountants and solicitors?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'd say majority, you know, we our client bank is generally business owners, uh, or or or probably high net worth individuals, high-rate taxpayers.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the people we see we're adding about we're adding value to.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we see yeah, that that our target market is is those people where they've they've got more complex requirements.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is back to my belief.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think yeah, as each year, more and more people will be able to, with more straightforward arrangements, will will look to do that themselves.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily need to need to you know take on a financial planner for that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you you really need to be an expert in your yeah in your industry, and you you've got to add value.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to earn good money in this industry, uh your fees can only your fees have got to be in relation to the amount of benefit that you're giving that client.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're just giving them a straightforward pension with no planning and no lifetime allowance issues or annual allowance issues, and yeah, you you've got to question where is your advice, where is your where is your advice?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: What where is the benefit that that client is getting using you?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about that then.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, integrity, you've been going now for about how many years?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: About 11 years, you said, wasn't it?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: About 11 years integrity, yeah.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: 11 years, okay.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so you've grown that business.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, how many guys have you got now and girls working within your business?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's about 24 of us within the business.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: 24, great stuff.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And how many of those are financial planners?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh nine financial planners, uh, with a breadth of knowledge.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're fairly we're fairly young as a business, so uh the majority of staff are 20s, 30s, and 40s.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um was your sort of plan to grow the business?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why why you know, because some people choose to become a financial planner and just you know do it for the lifestyle, really.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you choose to want to hire staff and build a business with more people within it?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think I made that choice.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: It sort of just evolved, I think, uh and sort of grow.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'd say, yeah, you you don't run a business to improve your lifestyle.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll agree with that, Sam.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, you do you do sometimes look at uh your your employee advisors and think, oh well, I wish I was one of them.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh it's uh you you yeah, you've got to absolutely love your job and your work to to have your own practice.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you've got to be adaptable because yeah, if you're if you're gonna if you're not gonna embrace the changes that happen, this is the wrong industry, and particularly you should not be a business owner, uh, because changes are thrown in your face every every week, every month.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what, whether you agree or disagree with with the changes that the FCA put out or other sort of industry bodies, you know what, you're not gonna be able to change it, so you've got to embrace it and go and work and work with that.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's all all opportunities as well.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's talk about that as well, because I think the reality, I think sometimes people sit back, especially when you're employed and you think the grass is green, you're on the other side running your own business.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are some of the challenges or what are the main things you came up against when you set up your own business that you were not expecting?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps you could pass on a bit of advice to those listeners thinking about running their own business and setting it up.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are the say the key things in the beginning that you wish you knew?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think you I mean you're only as good as your team around you.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we've been very lucky.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've got some great, a great team around us.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you've got to have the right infrastructure around you, you've got to have the right processes around you.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Your business has got everything's got to be process-driven business.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, you need a written process for everything uh to sort of follow through on that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think as well, he's about to be a specialist, Eric.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you initially set up, you want to you you just want any bit of business.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you're thinking, right, let's just take everything on.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you can't be a jack of all trades for everyone.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to know what is your what is your market, where are you adding value.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we know we know where our market is, we know where we're adding value to our clients, and they're the client, they're the clients that are going to appreciate the advice, and we're we're adding value to them.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that touchable, they're not they're not gonna go anywhere because they're getting value for what the what for the fees that they're paying for it.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think probably don't grow, don't grow too quickly, uh, I think is is is is is probably one measure.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of companies there that try and grow far too quickly.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's all about the people you're recruiting.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to get the right people in the business, uh, and people with the same mindset that will get will get on.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good bit of advice, actually, because I think we can sometimes feel that the more people we employ, the biggest, the bigger our business gets.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the more successful it is.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a bit of a a bit of an ego-driven type thought process, um, and a bit of prestige-driven thought process in the sense that how big my company is, look how big it is.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: We must be doing well.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I fell foul of that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look at the actual bottom line and you think we're not making any more money, but we've got more, we've got more stress on our, you know, more people to manage and more more to do.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you strip that back, remove some of those, dare I say it, uh dead weight.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: When you do that and you remove it, you start to see actually the core people around you that follow the same principles that you have and that have the same outlook that you have to grow the business.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's arounding yourself with those people that helps you grow.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: But not only just helps you grow, but it helps you keep your sanity as well, because you're not constantly putting out fires around you or having to deal with things you don't need to deal with.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've got people that are aligned to the same values as you.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose there grows the culture, and culture is a big word at the moment within growing your business.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even more so now we've moved into this kind of home, you know, home and office type type culture that we're now moving into.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's going to stay.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're going to go, right, everybody back to the office, no one's working from home.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've got this hybrid model now, and I think culture is more important than ever.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you think about culture within your business?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and what what is the culture like at integrity?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh I mean you've got to have every everyone's gotta be sitting off the same hymn sheet.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, what we want, I suppose what our model here is that we want driven, so you take our advisors, we want driven advisors.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't, you know, we don't want a load, a load of advisors that are bringing in£150,000 worth of fees, you know, all be that you know, quite nice.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: But what our model is is that you we need advisors that are going to be looking around in£250,000,$300,000 plus of fees a year.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: The reason for that is you need to have the infrastructure behind, you know, you provide all this infrastructure behind them that comes at a huge cost by having your power plane team, your admin team, your technical compliance, etc.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: For that.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: We we we sort of work hard, play hard as well.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, we've uh you know regular staff nights out, you know, that's because you get so busy with work, and every we're lucky, everyone gets on well.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you're so at work, everyone's in the you know, everyone's got a job to do, and you get everyone out of the office uh when you could, uh this is, and uh yeah, yeah, and uh great bonding experience.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we uh we we uh we we we started introducing closing the office for a uh team building day.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, that was that was uh you know, take take them to the races for the day.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Get a coach go to the races today, and the amount of goodwill that gets from everyone is is you know, you can't put a price on that is and it's about getting people to people have got to like who they're working with, they'll work better, it's better for the business, it's better environment for the staff to get on with people as well.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, working from home has been a bit challenging because I think as an office we we like to bounce things off, but uh we we'd already fortunately for us, we'd embrace the likes of Microsoft Teams before before the pandemic.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: We'd started using DocuSign before then.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it actually for us, we we uh more by luck because we couldn't, you know, we never foresee this coming.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were uh quite to unplug computers and plug in and work from home.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um everyone's working well from home, but I think it's that camaraderie isn't it's that sharing the idea.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where you get a copy and have a chat to someone, you're sharing a bit of an idea uh for uh for for that.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but uh yeah, uh, and I think everyone's looking forward to getting back into the it's not going to be the old world, it's gonna be a new world, but it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be a bit of a hybrid from where we are now to where we were before.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's where we're gonna, yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure what your thoughts are on that, yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just think um I think we're entering into a hybrid, you know.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was prior to the to lockdown, you know, I didn't realize just how much I felt I needed everybody in the office.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, it was like I suppose a bit of a control thing where people were in the office, I could feel like they were here and they were working.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what lockdowns taught me in the last 12 months is you don't have to be in an office and and to make money, you don't have to be in an office to do your job.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, some of the guys in my business have been fantastic, you know, they've not been working in the office, but yet their billings have gone up during a pandemic.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to really question the need for offices.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a need?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is this culture of bringing everybody in, having everybody in the same space all the time, is it really a necessity?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think what it's about is treating employees like individuals that have their own thought processes and not that I want them to think the way that I think.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a big, big revelation that I was controlling in my thoughts and the growth of my business.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if everyone does what I say, then we're going to grow.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely wrong.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: My mindset was completely wrong.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And now where I've let go of that need for control, and I can see how, and when you do that, some people just don't respond very well.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they kind of almost, when you leave people on the to their own devices to run their business as if it's their business, they they they struggle.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: And those are the ones that I don't feel then fitted into the culture of my business anymore.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that just relished it and loved that freedom, and they are the ones that have made more money and they're the ones that are sticking around.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we can let go of that need for control as business owners, bring people in that we trust more.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: More and be more trusting of them.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody benefits from it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: The overall well-being of my staff has improved.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was tough during lockdown.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've brought in things like benefits packages.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're lucky to have it, like uh Health Shield, um, you know, um private medical insurance for some of our staff.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they've used all of the resources that are there.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the counseling, you know, anything around mental health they've used.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been a real, real benefit to them.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: So culturally, I like to build an environment where people feel that they can be themselves, that they don't have to hide behind a facade that they're that they're constantly on top of their game.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that if they are having a struggle, they can talk to me, they can pick the phone up to me, and I talk about my struggles.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't need to be on them all the time, micromanaging.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I realized that I was doing that unconsciously, and um, it was that was a real learning experience for me.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's on nine till five as well, the mentality that we have to nine till five or whatever the hours are.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: What why do you need to work a set hours?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you you obviously need a certain number of staff to work those hours to man phones, etc.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we all get that feeling in the afternoon.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just certainly yeah, it gets to three o'clock in the afternoon.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm looking at a screen?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not being productive.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, what's the point of me just looking at the screen until you know for the next hour?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: When do I get productive or uh or or you know next two hours and say it's five o'clock and then I think I'll finish work now?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Go and take the dog for a walk, go and go for a run, do something else.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you've got if you've got the staff with the the right sort of mentality and bought into the business and want the businesses to see, and everyone succeeds, they might go off for an hour in the day and they'll do it in the stuff in the evening.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I know you know I've got some members of staff that work particularly well.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got we've got one advisor, and he he works really well between nine o'clock at night and midnight.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll get loads of emails off him then.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I you know, you're not going to get many emails off him in the morning.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I've got other members of staff where we've got emails through at six o'clock in the morning, and and it's getting that shift culture.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I I think I struggle with this with it, being a business owner.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't you want to say, but if I'm not working, I feel guilty.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, massively.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I'm not if I'm if I'm not being really productive, what go do something else that actually gonna enjoy and make myself productive again?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think there's a big shift in that, and I think as business owners, we've got to identify that that's gonna that's gonna work better for our staff as well, and it is a little bit, and it's it's having that it is having that trust there.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've got to say we're willing to lock down, and I was thinking, oh my god, the staff are all gonna be sitting at home on their Xboxes and watching Netflix and everything.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: So initially it was nine o'clock in the morning, we were getting everyone on for a teams meeting, having everyone got the cameras on to make sure they're they're not lying, not lying in bed.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah, and uh and so yeah, yeah, I soon realised actually, you know, what you're worrying for.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've got some great staff, and that yeah, they're all uh uh they're they're they're all they're all uh appreciating being in a job and not having to worry about things.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, don't get me wrong, I think there's a few that would have liked to have been furloughed when we all that's great weather uh over the period, but yeah, we didn't we didn't we we didn't need to furlough anyone on that, but you you realise that staff are working better in this environment.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, they're gonna go and stick a wash on and do it and do the odd bits of jobs, but at the end of the day, that's you know, as long as they're getting their job done.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think with the majority of our staff, we get a lot more out of them uh working at home, and I think it's a lot better for them.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of our staff have got to, you know, and that it could be an hour's commute each way a day, they're not having to do that.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: So Massively, massively, and that's the benefit I'm seeing is is allowing people to work the way they want to work, that open, honest relationship.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no point in someone sitting at a desk, right?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's taking an hour to get into work, they're stressed out, they're nut because they've got to get there on time.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: They get there a little late, then they feel really bad about it.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then in the back of their mind, they're thinking, God, I really got to do that, I've got to make that phone call to the doctor or whatever it might well be, right?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not an effective way to work.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Give them that control and say, right, it's your life, you work it out the way you want to do it.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to work between those hours and those hours, it's over to you.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: But as long as you pick the hours that are most effective for you, then it's over to you.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't need to tell you.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll have a conversation at the end of the month around your figures if they're down or your figures if they're up.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, releasing that control is been, and you said it yourself, that stress that you feel as a business owner, worrying about what people are doing, because obviously you're worried about your own security.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not working, then your whole business can go under.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're worried about paying the paying the bills, aren't we, essentially?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And making sure that we're making some money as well.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we have to start with ourselves.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when we start with ourselves and we start looking at our thoughts and our feelings and control and starting to learn about why we're doing these things, then it's sort of disappearing, it goes out to the staff as well.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the staff feel a lot calmer.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I've experienced that.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think culture-wise, it's about letting go of the need for control, hiring the right people and trusting that they're going to do what they want to do, that they're adults and they can manage their own days.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be sat your if you do not have to be sat at your phone for 10 hours, 12 hours a day to be effective.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can be super duper effective within three, three to four hours.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I've learned.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I'll sit there and I'll bash it out for three or four hours and I'll go for like two hours.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give myself a time now during the day for two hours where I'm working on my own personal health.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's going for a run, that's having some, doing some yoga, that's doing some meditation.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: It could just be that I'm just spending two hours not working because I know that when I go back to my desk for another three hours, I'm refreshed.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's a bit, I think, culture-wise, that's changed.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: The ability to also, as a business owner, especially within the financial planning space, you'll you can now start to look at your staff not being just within your geographical location.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we all know there's a there's a fall in the advisor numbers and a shortage of advisors coming in and good quality power planners, et cetera.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're running a business within a geographical location where you've got very few people anyway within your area that you can hire to help grow, all of a sudden your net can be a lot wider because you're more flexible with how people can work.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you're opening yourself up and your business up to a far wider audience.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the ones that are kind of keeping that control, they'll lose those staff to people who are forward thinking and trusting in this new age.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um that's the way business owners within financial planning needs to go because of the shortage of staff that we're going to be seeing over the next five to ten years.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a huge amount of advisors leaving leaving the profession.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be flexible, you need to be attractive to the next gen, basically.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool, man.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what are your plans then?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you've obviously grown a business there.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it's going it's going really well.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a great model there.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are your plans over the next sort of five years?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you looking to grow?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's your aspirations?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think growing a business, but yeah, we're not we're not looking at uh aquarium businesses.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I never say never about anything, to be honest, but we're not really looking at aquarium businesses because uh I think if you if you offer a good service, your business will come to you.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: When you can grow it organically that way.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you've got a bit more control if you grow it slowly as well.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's certainly looking to grow, but it's for us, it's about looking at the right people come along as well.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, if there's a the right financial planners coming along, uh we'll look to recruit them.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh even if you even if we have not no need for the right person, if it if it's someone you really think is fantastic, you you recruit them uh as soon as soon as as soon as possible for your competitors get together.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think it's building our building our professional connections up.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: When I say building professional connections, you've got you know, it's not about scattering yourself out there for everywhere.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've got to build your trusted professional connections up.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for us, yeah, for us, I think if we're working with maybe uh three or four uh uh law firms, uh that that's probably where we'd like to be uh but very effectively.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's uh it's we've got lots of law firms with the that we that that that we that we're fortunate to sort of work with uh uh already, but it's getting you need to really get that where you're buying into each of the services.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's about delivering uh a good sir and a good outcome to your clients.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if your accountant, your lawyer, your commercial brokers, they're uh they're the key key partners really for that.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's developing those relationships more, you know, more and more.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a lot about you know, it's it's it's it's a lot about understanding as well who you can refer your clients to as well.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because the amount, yeah, there's the yeah, you need to be able to trust that you can refer clients on to get a will with the right solicit, the right services, so that they're that they're gonna get hold of as well.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think yeah, we're we're certainly looking to we're looking to grow the business, we're not looking to we're not looking to go out and acquire lots of business to do it.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: That way, our model is you know it's it's getting is getting the right people on board, uh and the you know the best people in those roles.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we want to get the best administrators, the best power planners, the the best, the best advisors.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: We don't we don't want to have we don't want to have a hundred members of staff, you know, we want to keep it as a business where we've got very driven, very driven individuals within that business uh for us.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: So very lean, but very experienced, driven individuals.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um a numbers game, just getting everyone in for the sake of doing it and hoping for the best.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: So some people that have got aspirations to grow their books, as you mentioned, is um as financial planners, you know, you're looking for a certain somebody that has aspirations to turn over 300,000 plus, not 150 or 100,000 plus.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you don't want that person who's just ticking over because it pays them a nice salary.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: You want those people that are driven to want to succeed and help push that business forward, push into new areas and help it grow.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's um that's that's exactly the way you want to do it, really.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, cool.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: So as well in terms of a business.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, certainly when you set up, if you're if you're looking to grow a business that's going to turn over a million pounds, I think it's very hard to make you know you're better off being advisor being an advisor because you your number of your costs that you've got, and when you're looking at some you know, some of your costs are fixed pounds of that, you need to you need to get above a certain level of turnover to start making it that business uh really, really worthwhile worthwhile doing.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, otherwise, why would wouldn't you just be an advisor as a company?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you you know, I think you need to be getting around a£2 million turnover to start really uh really start making that business a worth worthwhile option for you, given given the the hours and lifestyle you're having to give up uh for that.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, I think I think there's a lot of people that want to set up their own businesses, probably a little bit like I did, where you've just got two or three of you.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think the problem there is that with the with all the compliance and all the uh uh the the the admin and process you've got to have in place, it's it's not a viable option at that level.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're better off being an advisor and just being a really good, really good advisor.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh okay there.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: About um at that sort of level though, instead of going down like the RI route, for example, you go down the AR route.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you start to, you're an individual financial planner, you've got aspirations to grow a business, but you don't particularly want to be aligned to somebody else's brand.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: So there are some networks, for example, regardless of your turnover, that will allow you to become an AR.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then by being an AR, you can then build on your own personal branding and then start to establish a brand, establish a business name.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as you grow naturally, at least then you're prepared to be ready, if you like, to start hiring people.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a brand that's there to attract new financial planners.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I see so often like financial planners that go off and set themselves self-employed as RIs that want to grow their businesses, but they're stuck under the branding of somebody else.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's a whole transferable, it's a whole kind of effort and to build your own brand thereafter.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of happens, doesn't it?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to have your business plan.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Someone told me a number of years ago, always have a business coach and change those business coaches uh regularly as well.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe every every couple of years.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've yeah, we've worked with a few different business coaches over the years, and uh yeah, it's uh you certainly you it does help get in getting that experience from a uh from an outside person to to uh to align where do you want to be in the next one year, three years, five, five years plan?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that is advice that comes up on a regular basis when I talk to successful business owners within the financial planning profession, is get a business coach.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: You would say that's that's but is that did that really change your your so what yeah, so what are the benefits to getting a business coach as a financial planner?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think number one is you're account, they're not they're not always gonna tell you something that you don't already know, right?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they will do some things, but a lot of the time that they'll they'll tell you things that you you know anyway, but you're accountable to someone because as a business owner, you're probably not that accountable to many people.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so if if if you if you agree that you're gonna get something done by a certain date and you've told them that, there's there's more of a chance you're gonna do that than if you're only accountable to yourself for that.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's probably the number one, and and and and they've got breadth of knowledge from dealing with other other industries and other directors, so they they understand a lot of the common common thoughts that get going on.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we we it certainly helped us build a structure to the business, which was key.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we've sort of built the structure where we've got the you know, we've got the directors, then we've got the management team underneath.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh I think you've got to have that structure in the business.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um you've got to have your plans in in all businesses that uh do like a business, but don't uh they're not sure what direction they're going in.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Tangent and you might go well prepared and you need to pull yourself back online.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you do need to have your plans on where you want to go uh for a business.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean I think business coaches you know they're they're a necessity for in the business.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely something that I'm looking into myself to have a business coach.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've just taken on a um a finance director where we had two of us, and one was, you know, I'm marketing sales, if you like, and then Stuart was more that sort of running the business operations.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um we didn't have anybody in like a finance role that was 100% on finance.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I've developed a relationship now with this finance coach, and he takes care of all our accountancy, all of our all of our forecasting, and he's there to challenge us on the growth of the business.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's money sitting in the bank account, what are we doing with it?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are we just sitting on it?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: What are we planning on doing it?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we want to take this business?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing to sort of, when you do run a business, is that time flies really quickly and you realise actually, I don't have a plan for this.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like something you said earlier.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think to myself, because my my business is almost kind of my my retirement as well, you know.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I look at it that way.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you've got a figure in your head of what you want to achieve, but I've never sat down and actually planned it out, you know, and I'm only just starting to do that now.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, wow, that's freeing me up, you know, that's getting me thinking about my goals.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think um it's a really vital bit of in a bit of advice.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can often neglect the outside advice or coaches, etc., because it's an expense, isn't it?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's an added cost.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: The other issue you get, I think, is being a busy center.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I have a massive you know issue with this, is that is it control free?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a bit of a control free who likes to know everything, and I like and I like and you've got to you've got to uh you've got to be happy to delegate work across to people then to see it all through uh because generally they they can do a better job than me, to be honest, as well.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: They've got more time to dedicate it to it.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to be prepared to sort of delegate that and don't be such a control freak about everything as well.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Which uh staff here here say that or laugh because I love the word control freak.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: So but it's something it's it's you've got to know your weaknesses and and work your weaknesses, and that again is what a business code will help identify, uh you know, which is not always what people want to do, is pay someone money to tell them what they're not very good at.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah, you need to know.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you need you need that out outside person looking in in the business too embroiled in the day-to-day work.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't you need someone who's gonna stand back and pull you back with them to actually look at the business from an outside and see where you need to go.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I totally agree with you.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I totally agree with you.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've been working with a coach in other areas of my life, and um it's been an amazing experience when someone pulls you up on your defects, you know, and why you do the things you do and why you get panicky and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, wow, like someone challenging your thought process because you run on autopilot most of the time.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, that autopilot's usually off the back of fear, usually worrying about something.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're kind of building all these things around you.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's like controlling something from a from a place of fear, you know.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you realize that, you're like, whoa, man, I've been living my life like that.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: No wonder I'm stressing out.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um, no, I see the value in it.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think after this finance coach has come on board, which we're doing now and onboarding him, I think the next one is getting a business coach.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um, any recommendations, just send them my way because um I'm very much up for going down that path, and that excites me actually.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think the next 10 years is going to be interesting in the financial services industry, gonna evolve.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's every every industry is evolving faster and faster.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the you know, financial services is gonna be no different to that.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: So uh uh, so I think it's uh along with change because uh comes opportunity as well.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it'd be interesting to see what happens over the next five or ten years.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, I agree a hundred percent.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, listen, thank you so much for your time today, Martin.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for an overview of your career and some of your thoughts and insights into running a business within financial planning.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate your time today.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, you know, keep in contact.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh left to I want to hear more about integrity and see more of more of you guys out there.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when you sort of jump on your marketing wheel that you're gonna look sounds like you're gonna be doing some of that in the future, it'll be great to see it because it sounds to me that you've got a fantastic model there.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're working in a great space, and uh I don't think you'll have much trouble growing with the right financial planners as long as you get yourself out there, you know?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks you, Tarasa.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: No worries, brilliant, thanks, Martin.