Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Pleasure, Power, Orgasm & Reclaiming Yourself After Divorce with Katrina "Lady O"

Transcript

Pleasure, Power, Orgasm & Reclaiming Yourself After Divorce with Katrina "Lady O" · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationship, separation, and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage, these are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganizing life afterwards.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warrantry people of the cooling nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, where I share a conversation between me and Katrina Vychovsky, Australia's Orgasm Lady, also known as the Lady O.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: She helps people unblock their limits to great sex, satisfying personal lives, and supports them to make rapid mindset shifts so that they can be, do, have, or experience what they truly want out of life.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know you'll enjoy this conversation between me and Katrina.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Sally Ann.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's kick off with just a little bit of background on you.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, in as much or as little detail as you are comfortable sharing, can you give us a little brief overview of your marriage, divorce, relationship kind of story?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I um met my ex-husband very young.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was 18 when we met.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our families did kind of know each other through the church.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't have any recollection of him, but it turns out that we were at like a couple of parties together and we're in the same venue together, but didn't see each other.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I became aware of who he was when I was about 15, and I remember thinking, oh yeah, he's all right.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember thinking, like, oh my god, like how lucky is that yeah, at that point he had his arms around a girl who was his ex-girlfriend then, his girlfriend then.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my god, how lucky is she?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, then kind of you know, different paths.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, I was 18 when we started dating, which is very young.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we actually did something that I'm quite proud of is we became friends first, and he'd just come out of that relationship and didn't want it to be a rebound.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd been through a series of relationships where we're sort of seeing each other, but not quite boyfriend, girlfriend.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I actually want a real relationship.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so that we took our time to get to know each other.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: We talked a lot, um, and then by the time we were ready to form a relationship, it was pretty serious, pretty fast.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we were talking about marriage and kids and that quite early on, um, like our first official date early on.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's really early on.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, and now knowing what I know, you just sort of think, oh my gosh, like if my kids did things that I did or came home and said, Hey, this isn't this, which is it's kind of funny, but it's life.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, yeah, so we I was 21, we got married, and then had four children, like 23, 25, I just turned 28 and then 29.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I was pregnant and breastfeeding for a decade.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then um probably gosh, maybe when the youngest was about four or five, so we had four in primary school, I think that year um things started to um get more difficult, I suppose.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think in the end we had really good honesty, and so when it became apparent that the relationship was um not not benefiting both of us mutually, let's say, um, we were able to talk about it and throw everything on the table, and in fact, throw everything off the table and start again.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for the next five years we tried and then it it just it just wasn't working.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think really we'd just grown too far apart and wanted completely different things.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we by that stage we were together 22 years, 21 years um together and 19 years married, and it unraveled within five weeks.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um once we saw fast, ended fast, huh?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, started fast, ended fast.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much with a just the two decades in between.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, so uh we separated um and then um what happened after that was probably the most telling, I suppose.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody thought we were like the Ken and Barbie kind of couple, like the real, you know, oh my god, I can't believe you two.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess really is that no one's immune to this, you know, and it's not I think uh you would probably agree and probably have something to say on this, that we don't have to say like successful or failure in a relationship because a relationship always gives you something and takes something.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think you know, I don't have any regrets as far as that.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I have four beautiful children.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we, you know, still co-parent, and you know, we've still got a long time ahead, grandparenting and weddings and all of that stuff together.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: We will always, the six of us will always be the six of us.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very conscious of that big picture.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we're not married anymore, and but we will still be connected in that way through our children and and our future.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, connected forever.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just and a f still a family, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: That just looks a little different.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: You don't live in the same space.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love the way you said a relationship always gives things and takes things.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think what do you think you've gained since your marriage ended?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: I described to some people that I felt like it was a chipping away of who I am and who I was.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I actually had um an interesting story with my name.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: My maiden name was not like my father's paternal given name.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Vizyakovsky was his um name, and he changed it when he married my mum because he was a teacher in the 70s, it was quite long and 11 letters.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so the name I grew up with was sort of we weren't related to any other people with that name.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then from 21, married to 40 was my married name.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I had a choice to make like, who am I and who do I want to be?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't feel I certainly didn't want to keep my married name, and I didn't feel like I was that same person as the first 29 years, so I went back to my paternal grandparents' name, which is which is the name I have now.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's been finding myself, like you know, we get into these patterns and we get into this space of compromising.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And well, say I wanted blue and he wanted red, we'd end up with purple.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do that too often, nobody actually gets what they want ever.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're always compromising.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's been that consistent coming back to who am I?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: What do I want?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And what do I get to choose when I get to choose anything?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Bloody love it.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love it so much.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move on to your work, okay?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share a little bit about the work that you do and perhaps how how you got into this work?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I am a coach, and the area that I coach in is life strategy.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: So people um, you know, come to me.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Usually they're successful people who are doing really well in their work, career, and business, but their personal life is in tatters.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I do relationships, dating, and sex.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and specifically to that are multiple orgasm.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm affectionately known as Lady O or the Orgasm Lady, um, particularly in America.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's what they call me.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I do is I help people unblock any blocks that they have to multiple orgasm and sexual pleasure.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I work with males, females, and couples in that space and one-on-one coaching over Zoom.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have clients all over the world in um Canada, America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I the reason I got into that was because it was a very underfed market.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: So some interesting things happen where I discovered um through a money boot camp that when women have more orgasms, the more money they make.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, and there was another group that were doing a business training where um we were talking about why we don't have sex very often.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a lot of people, particularly with a partner who's willing and able right there, but women, especially mums, don't have sex as often as what they could or should be.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the benefits of sex in that relationship, if it's healthy, there's virtually no downside.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're a monogamous, there's there's you know very little chance or known of STDs.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: The pregnancy is usually sorted by between the couple.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, you're willing and able, and we just don't.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, well, why don't we?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And people who haven't had sex for a long time when they would have sex and have an amazing time, it's like, oh, you know, it feels so good, it's stress-relieving, it's um, you know, anti-disease, there's all the cellular things, and women glow for days after an orgasm.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what you know, I just think, why aren't we why aren't people talking about this?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Why aren't we doing this?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Why aren't we having more?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, women know we could get sex pretty easily, like it's not hard to find someone willing to have sex with you.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's a matter of quality and what we want and what we're actually looking for that ties in, and and and women get very much in our heads.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so there's what I discovered was the permission piece.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people don't know that they can have orgasms or multiple orgasms, and they certainly don't know that they're allowed to, or they don't understand the capacity they have to control that or to create something better than what they currently have.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think is, or what do you find is the biggest or most common block that women and female identifying people have around accessing multiple orgasms, reaching multiple orgasm?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's the most common block?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: You said something about permission.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Permission is the biggest, it's it's like we don't even think about it, sort of like I think back in probably our mother's or grandmother's generation, it was almost potluck of the draw with your husband, whether it was good or bad.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And some people had a great experience of sex and some had a terrible.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And because I only had one partner at that time, that was their assumption is this is what sex is.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they were then passing on to their daughters and nieces and and the and the female and the family when we pass these on is very specific ideas of what sex is and what it should be.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there was the very much the thing of it's your duty, it's your husband, you know, you have to take care of him and all of this.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the other thing is that which I said on stage uh to JT Fox when I was in LA in front of 1,500 people, is the difference between men and women I find is that men love their penis.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: They think it's the best thing in the world, you know, they just love it, you know.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: 99.9% of men, unless there's a medical or physiological issue, love it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Women don't love our vaginas, and we're not taught to, and we're certainly not receiving that message through any messaging.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, why don't we?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's very it's got negative connotations, as in don't touch it, don't let anyone else touch it, it's bad or wrong or dirty or smelly or sex is bad, or um, if you do that, or if you like sex or if you enjoy sex, it says something about you.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot going on for women.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot, there's a whole lot.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and how do you think that changes for a woman or female identifying person coming out of a long-term relationship?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, again, does it change, does it, I guess, is really well the thing is then it's like, well, in a world where I can have anything and I can choose anything, what would I choose?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the number one thing is they don't actually know what they have access to.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think because when you're coming out, and I hear a lot of women saying, Oh, I don't want sex, which is fine.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then you find, but they want a companion, which is fine.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: That also there are men who don't want sex, that's fine, you know, they they may just have a companionship, or people that go, well, I don't want it, you know, more than once a month.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, then finding a partner who only wants that, that's great.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And people that want it, you know, multiple times a week and finding a partner that they want.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think when you're coming out of a relationship due to death or separation or divorce, it's that thing like it's a blank slate.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can choose whatever you like, and knowing what options available to you are probably a really good place to start.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I literally remember I was in a car park after our separation.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, I can look at other men, like I can look and see what's around.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just remember that specific when you marry, like I was I was in a monogamous relationship.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I wasn't looking or open to anything, and it's just like that switch, it's like, huh, see what's around.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder too, and I'm interested to know what you think.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's been in a long-term relationship, in a relationship for a long time, there's a pattern to that sex, right?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's good or whether it's bad or whatever it is, there's a pattern, and that becomes, as you were talking about before, you know, with the previous generations, that becomes sex in inverted commerce.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is what sex is.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when the slate's wiped clean, you get to go out there if you're brave and adventurous and willing and explore whatever what sex can be.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm wondering is how that shifts and changes and what we need to do to kind of wipe the slate clean, like you said.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit of a mindset shift, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, this is sex, but actually, is it?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is that all there is?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and the Monica Lewinsky trial with Bill Clinton, you know, the president was like, if it involves the sex organs, it's sex.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's kissing and touching and breasts, and you know, obviously penis, vagina, or however, you know, people are doing that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's probably a really good idea to educate yourself and talk to people who've just been through that because, you know, there's a big thing like the first one after a long-term relationship.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there is um, what do I want?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Some people have bucket items that they want to tick off their list.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Some people have, I just want to be in a relationship.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Some people have, I'm just, you know, nobody wants me.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so broken and damaged and traumatized.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some people are like, I don't want to touch a man, I don't want a man to touch me.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, you know, what I want to say to people is it's okay where you are and it's okay to want what you want.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: But if you want to want something different, that's where I come in.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because some people are like actually, you know, people were raped within their marriage or traumatized within their marriage or or never got to choose, or it, like you said, one type of sex in one position, or one very this is how it is, and that's okay.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: But if they want to try something else, or they've only ever had one orgasm or two, and it's like, okay, what does three look like, or four or five?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what does multiple orgasms feel like or look like?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we have access to so much more information that wasn't available or known or talked about, you know, 10, 20 years ago.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So people who are coming out of a long-term relationship, it is a whole different ball game.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's not as scary as what people think.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's um really advantageous to follow someone like yourself or myself, um, or you know, DNL, uh, because you learn about different things that you wouldn't necessarily have been exposed to within a long-term relationship.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of um access to information, I really wanted to ask you about porn, good porn, bad porn, you know, there's all it, there's a range, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: What impact do you think porn and its increasing accessibility has had, and I mean positive or negative, yeah, women, female experience of sex, pleasure, and orgasm?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think the positive I have to say is that it opens our mind to what is possible.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it's in one way has been good for women because of that cookie-cutter thing.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I think the religious side is probably what stops a lot of people.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's conditioning and religion and very strict, is like I'm not allowed to do this.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I refuse to believe in a God that made a body with a brain to think, heart to beat, lungs to breathe, hands to touch and feel, but the clitoris is only to be used with one person in that marriage relationship.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've I do a lot of work around that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm actually called up in order to have conversations with heads of religions because I really want to flip the lid off this and have the conversation that nobody's having.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: But but I think um, so in the way of women enjoying sex and um trying different things to bring pleasure to to consenting adults, I think is a good thing.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's probably the only good thing I can see in that industry.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that women in it are being treated very well or have been historically treated very well, and that bothers me and upsets me.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I often think, as my litmus test, would I want to do that or would I want my daughter to do that?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I would have to say that's a firm no.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um but and I and and the other really negative side is I think it has been at huge detriment to men, to men in our society, to young boys, boys as young as 10, 11, 12, their first experience of sex is watching pornography.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And again, over the last five, 10, 15, 20 years ago, it's not a dirty magazine with a suggestive picture.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is they can access hardcore porn, which is very actually dangerous.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think at that vulnerable age, it puts it in their mind of what sex is going to be like.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you and I can say with almost certainty their first sexual experience is not going to be like that.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: There was um two epidemics that went through America, it was a sexual um oral oral sex epidemic where girls were performing oral sex on boys in high schools at a rampant level.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And all I thought about that was, well, she's not getting the favor returned to her.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you know, it's fine to do what you want to do, but do you want to do that and do you know what options are available for you?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other side is boys going into sex the first time, thinking they're gonna have some amazing pornographic experience to a young girl of the same age is just not going to happen.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would actually hope not gonna happen.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that they're missing out on the benefits of that real long-term relationship, that real um the benefit that comes from two people who get to know each other over a longer period of time and have a safety and security within that relationship, that comes from discovering and exploring and going through things together.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, it really does bother me in you know, in the most part.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think then there's also the addiction where you know people could only have sex or orgasm after or during watching porn.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, um that that bothers me too.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel sad for for that being the case.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's switch gears.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: What is let's switch back to pleasure.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: What is one thing that listeners can do to enhance their experience of sex and intimacy, especially after that relationship breakdown, separation, divorce?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think it comes back to knowing your own body.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, number one, it's really important to take care of your body as far as exercise, nutrition, um, you know, living as a drug-free and chemical-free as possible because that brings us back to nature.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And our nature is the smell, the senses, the touch, the sight, and the feeling and connecting, you know.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: So grounding just bare feet on the earth, you know, for 15 minutes a day will absolutely do wonders for to reset the nervous system.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: We live in a time where our nervous systems are shot through the roof, and that's due to chemicals, but also stimulation and screens and um drugs and caffeine and all that sort of thing, and constant images in our face where we're we're just very short-term grabbing our attention, and that's a problem.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think having some time each day, whether it's meditating or even in when you find yourself alone in bed, is touching your own body and discovering what you like or don't like in on your own body, because again, long-term relationship or just coming out of a relationship, I don't want to say most, but a lot of people find that all the sex they had was what their partner was willing to give them or what they received from their partner, that people depending on their age and stage and access to information and open-mindedness.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: But then I remember st thinking specifically that sex was something I allowed my husband to do to me.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Not I did it, wasn't until I was older that I'm like, oh, actually, this is something we do together.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, and just that might shift because of conditioning or various things, and nobody ever told me that.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh wow, like that's you know, when you just uncover these aha moments, it's like weird.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because you were told before, like I said, women can get sex very easily.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: We can have offers of sex very easily.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: We don't always accept all those offers, or we're more discerning, we have choice, let's say.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it's that different mindset.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: If the themes in this episode are resonating with you, if it's bringing up things that you would like to explore on a deeper level with me, you can book a free intro call via the link in the show notes and we can discuss coaching options.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to support you.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And now back to this week's episode.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's that different mindset.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you, you know, when you tie together the discussion we've just shared about the disservice that porn does to men coupled with a female or woman's concept of sex being something he does to her, you know, that can be really quite uh destructive pathway to go down, you know.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a pleasure necessarily a pleasure-filled pathway for the woman, female or female in that relationship or that space, right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, and to be honest, the Disney movies and rom-coms have done an equal disservice to women because we're waiting for this guy to climb to the top of the tower and uh profess his undying love or do some grand, grandiose act of love.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And often women have this checklist in their mind before they will have sex with their partner.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, did he take the rubbish out?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Did he do this?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Did he listen when I said that?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Did he like my dress?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Did he compliment me?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like they've got a long laundry list of before.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like tick tick tick.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, he didn't do that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: We have to sort that out.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's used as a currency and a reward.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that can just can be just as dangerous in relationships.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I told you I mess up and get stuck.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's go to sexless marriage.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:22
  unknown: Okay.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, going on from the tick the tick list, what about for someone, and here we're talking mostly about women, females, but let's just be a bit more generalized.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: What about someone stuck in a sexless let me say that again, a sexless marriage where it hasn't been a thing for whatever period of time?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: What questions should they ask themselves to better understand their needs, their desires, and then get them met in the bedroom with a partner?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so often that stems from a disparaging in libido and sex drive, one usually wanting sex more often or more frequently or more intensely than the other partner, and over time becomes just a mismatch.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: So two things either if you've had a great sex life at any point in your relationship, then it is possible to rekindle that, even if there's um medical or physiological reasons, um, there still is a way to do that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you've never had your needs met in that thing and it is something that you're you still have a need for, at some point I think people have to understand that maybe that relationship is not serving you any longer, and maybe the very real answer is to not be together.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if let's just say we're in the part where they have had a great sex life at any point in the relationship, is rekindling those things that desire, you know, are desirable about your partner or those things that drew you to them and endeared them.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we all just have to calm down a little bit and drop all of the reasons why and all of the ways they've fallen short and all of the ways you've been hurt because everybody gets hurt.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I had that that real realization, probably the first point when I thought my marriage was probably over, was I had a list as long as my arm of complaints about him, but I had and I wanted to throw dishes at his head, but I didn't.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking, oh my God, he's probably got an equally long list of complaints about me that I'm not aware of because we're not talking about this.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, as I said, when we were at the table clean and said, okay, what do you actually want?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: What am I missing?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: What are you not telling me?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Then when we did that, that's when our honesty went through the roof and our intimacy went through the roof.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: So while we did stay married for another five or six years, the two benefits of that were having that insight to say, I'm not perfect here, you know, and I I say generally, and I will say publicly and openly, I think women are too hard on men, good men.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I say to you know, friends or clients, I'm like, if he's a good man who works hard and comes home and generally, you know, does the right thing and is coming back to you, for want of a better term, I think throw him a bone, just have sex with them because it then drops your guard and it then it feels so good, and you get that connection back.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we need skin-to-skin contact, we need oxytocin, we need the hug, you know, we need that touch and we need that acceptance from each other.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And allowing somebody to have sex with you is the most intimate thing that you can do.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And women are the inbox, and it is an allowing, but it's also like an acceptance that no, he's not perfect, but neither are you.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And can we do this anyway and get back something that we once had that we both enjoyed and benefited from?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's like breaking the drought, isn't it?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like almost like forgotten and you will remember what it feels like the pleasure.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: It might not be a perfect interaction, it might not be, you know, six orgasms in a in a 40-minute session.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not, just contact me, I'll help you with that part.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: But just you've got to break the drought.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Break the drought and rem, yeah, it's almost like coming back to one another, right?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's repair after an argument or sex after a mini drought, you come back to one another and like, oh, I remember you, I remember you.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and do you know my grandmother in her wisdom used to say this if any of her daughters or friends would complain about their husbands being crabby, and my grandmother was born in 1935.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, you know, she was way above her time.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, Well, how long since you've had sex?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they'd be like, Well, what has that got to do with it?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, Have sex, and then they'd bring it back, go, Oh my god, it makes such a difference, doesn't it?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this woman was a pioneer.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just, it's not just the giving, it's the receiving, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's that co-creating something magnificent between the two of you.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I think as women, and I know I've been in this space personally where like you're just giving to everybody, your kids, your work, your job, your partner, the house, the dog, like it's just give, give, give, give, give.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can switch your mindset from I have to give sex to actually I get to receive sex.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and but it makes all the difference.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the other thing is that it's yeah, like you say, it becomes another chore, but it's also as we age, things change and our bodies become a bit slower, a bit less nimble.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for menopause for women, it can be a huge thing for men that their libido or the erection problems may start.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that growing old together and accepting that changing body too.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think some people shut themselves down or shut things down from that thinking, oh, he won't love me anymore, she won't desire me anymore.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in most cases, that is not the case.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: So a conversation and someone's got to be brave, someone's gotta just say, Listen, I love you so much, I want to talk to you.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I did actually have a man that approached me and and we really got to talking, and he said it had you know, sex he was in a sexless marriage, and I said, Maybe you could ask her a question in a way that disarms her, so that she's not being receiving that message from something's wrong with me, but I but receiving a message of I want to hear from you.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, maybe you can say that you've heard me speak, and that I said how little girls are not taught to love their vagina and that we are told that it's bad or dirty or wrong, and just ask her what was her experience of that, or what did her mother tell her about sex, or what did she learn about sex?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're coming to somebody from a place of curiosity rather than judgment, it opens up that space to say, well, actually, yeah, I'm struggling with this.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't find myself desirable, I don't think that I'm attractive anymore, or whatever the reason is.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, as I said, just everybody just calm down and let's just be honest.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and as you said, lead with curiosity rather than accusation or judgment or shame or blame.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's go dating.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Dating and sex after divorce.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: What are your top tips for staying safe and still having fun?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And one DM I had in my community when I mentioned that I would be talking to you was when and how do we share our STD history?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, good questions.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's a bit in there.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: You have to keep promising me if I forget.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually have these seven, seven rules things.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think um, on the practicality, if if you're meeting online, you absolutely have to take care of yourself because you don't know who's on the other side.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: I do recommend a Zoom call or some sort of thing.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I had this one person who I'm sure was a scammer, you know, messaged me and I said, Oh, take take a photo of yourself and send it to me.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not it wasn't a sexual photo, like a, you know, and I said, I said, Oh, can I I want to see you wearing a blue shirt and holding a spoon because I want to know if it's a real-time photo or a safe photo.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: So asking them something a bit left of field and see how they respond is really the thing.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've had like sugar daddy requests, and I always I just I love it because I just you know mess with them.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll say something and ask you a question, then they get angry.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when someone on the other end gets angry, it's like A, either if they're really that person, big red flag and no thank you, or B, they're a scammer, in which case they get really angry because I'm not falling for it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some things to watch out for.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think you definitely have to have a safe person who knows you're dating and they know where you're gonna be.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I would recommend people sharing the name and number of the person you're meeting, the location.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and what I do to is have encourage people to have a code word.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, for instance, you'll say, All right, I'm meeting Tommy at the pub at eight o'clock, I expect to be there till 10.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: That around nine, your friend would message you between nine and nine thirty with a specific question, and you have to have a pre-agreed upon answer.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: If that anything comes through, no response or a different response, because you know, sometimes people could steal your phone or anything, that if anything other than that, they know that's go time.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want possibly a secondary one, because say the date's going well and you're really into the conversation, you don't want to be on your phone.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I understand that too.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: But and isn't it just sad that we even have to have these conversations?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there are not two men going, how do you keep yourself safe on a date?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, yeah.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody who knows where you are when you expect to be home, and then a hey, I'm home safely message, or it's going really well.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think too, there's no rush, you know.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think the first time that somebody messages you or responds, or you say you finally get really brave and put yourself on the dating profile for the first time, the very first person is statistically very unlikely to be the person.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I think just taking your time, getting to know um what you're what you want and what you don't want, and you figure that out via practice.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's okay to go on a practice date with somebody who doesn't tick all your boxes because I think too a lot of people need lessons in boundaries and saying no, thank you.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing that I encourage people to say is we're not a match, you know.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like thank you so much for the date, and um but we're not a match, and it's so interesting is the asking, oh, why?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why aren't we a match?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I personally don't disclose my what I'm looking for to people because I um don't want them to spread that around, sort of thing, like oh, she wants this, this, this.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it opens up for oh, I'll pretend to be this.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's important to you can keep that private.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the same for women, if a man ghosts you or someone ghosts you is it doesn't matter why like let them go, it's okay because like why do you need to know for?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Say they're like, Oh, but what if something happened?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you've known the guy for two weeks, say he did die in an accident, which would be very unfortunate.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna do?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Shop at the funeral and say, Hey, we've been texting for a week, like you're not going to do that.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter why he didn't contact you, he didn't contact you, you're not a match, and it's like, we'll move on, you know, now you know.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: But the ghosting thing is a huge thing, and people just get really like, why?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And people search the obituaries or call the hospital.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, no, no, we're not gonna be doing that.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what about specifically keeping ourselves safe sexually and in you know, yeah, I guess safe sexually when the date's gone well and we're we're into it.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um about that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so having your design test yourself as um knowing up to date your your sexual health and um what you can do about that, um, from what I understand, it is um a lot easier these days to you know test and treat and test and treat.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think you have to be really honest with with yourself and with your partner.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the fairest thing to do.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and if somebody asks you, you know, I don't think that's a bad thing.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean you're dirty or wrong.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it's okay to ask, and I think I encourage people to ask too, because again, if you ask someone you're on a date with for their STI recent health track and an actual proof of that, I think that shows that A, you're serious about them, and B, that you take your health very seriously.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think both of those are very um attractive and endearing qualities.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And again, someone's response is very, very telling whether they're a good match for you.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if anyone gets defensive or judgmental or angry about that, that is very, very telling.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I would consider whether you, you know, want to be with that person again.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say that's a hard no again, because if they're angry just for asking a question, either their emotional intelligence is not great or you know, there is something that they're hiding, in which case, why would you put your own body at risk for that when you don't need to?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Last question sex toys.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a yes or a no?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now I've heard another sex educator and sex coach say on a different podcast that she recommends don't reach for the toy immediately for the quick for the quick fix, but you know, really tap into your own sensuality and pleasure.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think variety is a spice of life, and I think, you know, tool, um, sex toys can be looked at like tools, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we use tools in the garden to make the job quicker or more efficient.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: We use tools and iPhones, and you and I are not in the same place.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're using a tool of the internet and and the Zoom in order to have a great conversation.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think they absolutely have their place.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like porn, vibrators and sex toys for women can numb their sensitivity to orgasm and human touch, and that is not a good thing.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: However, um, there is a way to have five orgasms by yourself in in one session, which I which I teach people, but there's a better way with a partner and/or a sex toy if you don't have a partner to have seven.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I was asked this question too, is like, well, you know, no sex versus masturbation versus vibrator versus a partner.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, ideally, human-to-human touch, there is no um, there's no substitute for that.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: But because orgasm gives such great chemical release, stress release, and all the benefits of it, if that is the only way you can have an orgasm, then you know, that's something to be noted and the benefits may outweigh the risk.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think being mindful of what you're doing and why you're doing it and being aware of those choices is probably the most important thing.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: As I said, variety, I think if you don't know your own body or know what turns you on or what makes you feel good, that is the first place to start.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that may be laying in the bath and just general touch and knowing because then when you are with a partner, able to communicate things with your partner about what you like and don't like.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that is so hard for a lot of people because they've never actually had that conversation, they've never actually looked at someone in the eye naked and vulnerable and said, I like this or I don't like this.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: I had a woman who I thought was very, let's say, very successful in life and um business, say, Oh, it never occurred to me to tell my partner that it hurt me when we were having sex.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was wow astounded because it would never occur to me not to communicate that.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the other thing, you know, women are taught be quiet, don't make trouble, you know, keep, don't, don't, don't be a problem.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not being a problem, but that is something that I would consider as a very basic need or something in the moment to communicate.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when you are trusting this person with such an intimate act, it kind of to me feels like the place to be able to say that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, sex has come so far, but then we're so we're missing a lot too with the quick thing and the casual thing, and I think it's doing some detriment.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just uh accessing our voice in in within a sexual connection, you know, being able to say that hurts, I don't like that, so important, but also being able to say, I want this, I like this, yeah, asking for, yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that is when dating really comes into it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm in um a couple of different singles groups actually, and the conversation is always so telling and so interesting because when people say something or ask a question, often it's a statement in disguise and it tells me sort of where they are.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And women were complaining about dick pics, just for an example, and I'm like, Oh, I've only, you know, I've never received an unsolicited dick pic.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And they were just like, Oh my god, like they're astounded.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, I'm just not open to unsolicited dick pics, and it's not on my energy.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Oh, but it's disgusting and you shouldn't be treated like that.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I said, There are people who enjoy dick pics and want dirty talk just from the text, so it's not a matter of anything being bad or wrong, it's just a matter of are you a match for each other?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as I said at the very beginning, people who just want to hold hands and go for a walk are a good match if they both want that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: People who like to send illicit explicit messages and dirty talk via text are a good match if they both want that.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there are people in the middle who they want a long-term, I want to get to know you over a few dates and then decide if we're moving forward.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if they both want that, it's happy days.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: We have to find the bright person for us.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: And in a world of 8 billion people, I refuse to believe that there's not someone for everybody.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I've I also refuse to believe that there's only one, you know, there's not just the one.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are a number of ones out there, and you can co-create a happy, harmonious relationship, including sexual relationship with someone, provided you're a match.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: You want the same things, right?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Values, wants, needs, desires.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: And don't be afraid to ask that question and find out that they're not, like, you know, yes, it kind of can sting a little bit, but all of the information is good information because you know.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Katrina, thank you.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's been awesome.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: How can listeners connect with you, the most divine and gorgeous lady?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: The best way is Facebook or Instagram.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we'll put all the links below.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just, you know, DM is the best way.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: Don't send me unsolicited dick pics.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um I um yeah, I'm happy to answer questions.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a free group on Facebook, and you know, once I know where you're at and what you're after, I can absolutely point in the right direction and help you as a coach if that's what you're looking for.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, my darling Katrina.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's been amazing.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me, Sally Ann.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Until then.