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# 704 Scholar Daniel Gallagher: "A Coherent Response to Gender Ideology" · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Daniel Gallagher, thanks for joining us today.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure, Jack.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be with you.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Big fan of the podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: You wrote an article in the Catholic Exchange, a coherent response to gender ideologies that was written by Toledo Bishop, Daniel Thomas, and you called that outstanding.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to dive dive into that.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Before I do, I want to say a special shout out for the young men that are joining us from Claymore.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the big sword behind me, Daniel, made famous by William Wallace in the movie Braveheart.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and these young guys are waking up.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe it myself sometimes, these great young guys we're meeting, you know, grown up in the most toxic culture that you can imagine, and somehow saying, hey, there's got to be something more to this.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they don't have all the answers, but they're seekers at least, you know.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's exciting to have you on.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, before we get anywhere else, what is gender ideology?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, can you can you help us define that, Daniel?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, Jack.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Bishop Dan Thomas does a great job of giving us the outlines of what gender ideology is as well.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, broadly speaking, gender ideology is the advocation for a sort of genderless approach to the human person.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and which makes it strange that it's in fact called gender ideology, and some ways think it's better understood as kind of a genderless ideology.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: But genderless in the sense of gender is secondary to what it means to be a human being.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is justified by the more intellectual aspects of gender ideology into uh a sort of historical analysis that says that the fact that we are men and women leads inevitably to injustices, discrimination, and so on.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if we could simply make it secondary to what it means to be a human being, we could perhaps correct those injustices.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it becomes an ideology, meaning an idea, idea in Greek, that there are underpinnings of a, let's say, a fundamental intellectual conviction which drive the advocacy that comes out of something like gender ideology.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So those in broad outlines, there are more elements to it, but it's important, I think, for people to understand that it is an ideology, in other words, that it's thought through, at least by some that who are involved in the movement, and that the basic premise is that to be a man or a woman is only secondary to what it means to be a human being.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the reality of the body doesn't matter.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're malleable.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I we can we can we can go anywhere with that, but I I always take it back to Genesis three.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And all you can be like gods who call evil good and good evil.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, listen, before we go any further, I want to give people a little background on you.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're a lecturer in literature and philosophy at Ralston College, holds degrees in philosophy and theology from Catholic University of America and the Pontifical Gregorian Universities.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: You got you got some good pedigree back there, Daniel.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about what you're doing there at Ralston and a little bit about Ralston.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're in Savannah, Georgia.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct, yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Savannah is host to this new endeavor called Ralston College.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's rare that we have new colleges uh just starting out, but Ralston College is currently educating its fourth master's class, um, in other words, graduating class.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I joined this endeavor, Ralston College, to teach its second graduating class.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I currently am in teaching the third class that I've had since I've been here, which has been a short time.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Ralston College is not religiously affiliated.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of Catholic students.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say in each class, at least half are probably from Catholic colleges and universities or homeschooled, or and I think that the reason they're attracted to us is we offer a sort of very intensive one-year master's program in what often are called the great books.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't necessarily use that term, but that's neither here nor there as far as the importance of it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: But they can read basically from Homer all the way through the modern period uh with select works and just concentrate on seminar discussions and the reading and writing.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And again, very attensive because it's only one year.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, they go off to do all kinds of things, including public advocacy, graduate school, teaching at all levels, especially high school and uh middle and primary school levels.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very unique program.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Each class is composed of no more than about 30 students, so it's it's very intimate.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And personally, I'll just add that what attracted me, among other things, to Ralston was that kind of teaching since my previous experience had been in very large, somewhat impersonal universities, very bureaucratic, aside from all the chaos that's going on now with uh free speech and so on on so many campuses.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So let me spend another couple of minutes on this.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are the students like since you were at the bigger, you know, teaching, you know, this larger body, and also I'm sure filled with these ideologies and these indoctrinations.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, they these kids, you know, my heart goes out to these.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: We we we work with a lot of young people, and we're in the high schools too, high school retreats and and even speaking up at school boards now and in elementary schools with these gender ideologies being pushed.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's really I I'm gonna just use the word diabolical because it's really demonic what happens because you can see it in these kids, you know, they they really have taken this in at a very deep level, especially the especially the women that we're meeting, God bless them, you know, uh get caught up in because I think because of the emotional kind of a relational makeup of of women where we f and and that's not a put down of women, that's just the nature of who they are, where men seem this is a bell curve, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: But they're they're a little more analytical.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the guys that we're meeting are not all of them, but some of them at least are waking up and saying, There's got to be something more, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Step back.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: What is the truth of things?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and of course, when when you're when you're teaching philosophy, that's the big thing.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is the truth of things?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this kind of segues into our our topic today.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: What is the truth of things?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: But before I go there, what is the difference between the student bodies?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are you finding what?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I commend you for your bravery in saying what you've just said about that difference that you've noticed in young people and the way in which, let's say, females and males approach these issues, because I wholly agree with you.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say I have the empirical evidence to back it up because I've noticed it both at the institutions where I've taught previous to this, but you're good institutions, Cornell University and Notre Dame, and also in this smaller setting.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just affirm, and you've articulated very well, that I think you're right on the mark there.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: But what I've noticed is a almost insatiable hunger for the truth, even with students who don't know how to articulate, in fact, what truth is or or where they can find it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that here at Ralston College, just to use an example of a smaller institution, is that you don't suffer from the mass of distractions that can happen on a large campus where you don't have the avenues to approach professors, friends, staff on a one-on-one basis to ask these deeper questions.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the smaller institutions provide that opportunity.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I was educated at large universities, I have nothing against them, but the key to surviving in them, at least it was quite a few years ago when I was there, but I don't think this has changed.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: The key to surviving them is to find a parish, a group, some smaller community where you feel as if you can ask questions that are difficult to ask in other environments.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting that these smaller colleges, I think, offer that naturally because of the seminar settings.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, in answer to your question, I still have uh one way to answer to answer your question, I have so much to learn myself because things have changed rapidly, uh, as you well know, because the pressures on the young people and the children come earlier, the experiences they have by the time to get by the time to get to college are so different from mine and starting college in the fall of 1988 that I really find it hard to get my own mind around how difficult it must be.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I'm still learning.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that said, let me just end on a positive note, as I say.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the hunger for the truth is.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is it the hunger for the truth?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jack, we get um, you know, we only accept about 30 students, you know, in in in each class.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: We we get applications upwards of uh six, seven hundred for those 30 slots from all kinds of institutions, and they're only growing.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think this is significant.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um they know who we are, they know what our curriculum is like, and they know we stand for truth.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of our four pillars.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um that's that's what they, you know, it's it's some ways, I must say it's a little bit sad.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: They spent four years somewhere where they felt that they were even worse off when they finished, you know, got that degree as far as getting oriented with a compass, a moral compass.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I commend them that they're not gonna give up, they're gonna go to the next step, a master's program, where, in a sense, they might, so to speak, make up for it, compensate for it, or complement it, depending on what their background uh is coming here.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: This gets to my next question for you how important it is for the church to speak up about these issues.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Daniel, for too long and and and even to today, there are too many shepherds in the church that are not speaking up about these issues, and they haven't been, sometimes unfortunately on purpose, you know, that that have gone along with these ideologies themselves.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's really sad though.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Again, uh my heart goes out to these young people, and I'm sure you you do too, you know, because you write in here that uh Daniel Thomas, Bishop Daniel Thomas starts out with a with the shepherd's voice, which I think is really important for young people.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I say to them, it's not it's not all your fault, your confusion, your your your sexual same-sex attractions, etc.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you grew up in this in this proverbial pot, you know.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll just say one more thing to you and and then let you you go at it, uh Daniel.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've seen them robbed of their innocence at a very young age behind all of these gender ideologies is is pornography.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you s when you open these books, and I'm talking about uh books in elementary schools, you know, they use this as a veil for pornography.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: You wonder, okay, well, you know, it's all these young people are confused about uh their gender, et cetera, their identity itself.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But the real diabolical part of this are the pictures that I see these kids looking at.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, at 10 years old, you're you're just entering into puberty.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is really sad.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's talk about that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's talk about wherever you want to go with this, but but why you know how important it is for us to stand up and and what is the foundation of our our teaching?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we we need to clarify these things, don't we?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, Jack, very good.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the first thing that I would say is um I couldn't be more concerned uh with this myself as far as being a parent of uh five young children.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: We just had our our most recent born in October.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: My oldest son just turned nine last week.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So between and so um congratulations, by the way.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put you on my mailing list for Claymore because before you this is for Gen Z.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So so you're not there yet, but at least you'll know that we're we're waiting for you to do.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm just thinking about Claymore, in fact, you mentioned that in your ministry there.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just a couple of days ago, I was thinking, yeah, you know, I wonder what they're gonna call my son's generation.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's nine now, but I'm sure something like Claymore is still gonna be there.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: If we call it, you know, generation double Z or whatever, we're gonna be facing the same problems and so on.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I appreciate that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think about so one son and four daughters, the son is the oldest.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just to emphasize what you just said about the urgency of this and the diabolical nature of it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I spend a lot of my time writing publicly, doing catechesis and teaching, both people who are already Catholic, people who are thinking of becoming Catholic.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I even underestimated, and we've had a couple of thank god, minor incidents involving social media uh screens, you know, with the with the two oldest kids that I I just caught me, you know, by surprise for all the preparation preparation I've done to this.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: One other thing to add to that, Jack, is um, and this is all to to underscore your your point uh with pornography.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So in Georgia, the state of Georgia, I published a couple of articles on this, but there was a uh a piece of legislation, thank God, that was uh passed by the state legis uh legislature requiring schools, not asking them, but requiring schools to have a cell phone phone policy.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So to limit cell phone possession and use during school hours.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can only imagine the pushback came from one direction, you know, initially, and was brought into the courts immediately.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Who were they?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: The pornography industry, all those people that produce this stuff, right?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: On the grounds of free speech and so on.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, they they won't say usually what the real impetus is, but you know, they're just scared of limiting, right, access to this material.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, uh God, God forbid, in schools as well, during school hours.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just saying this because this is the kind of thing that we're dealing with, and none of us, no matter how time we how much time we spend, you know, looking into this, really comprehend how far we've gone.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and Daniel, I'll just add here in in Illinois, in Illinois, uh the the government is all behind this too.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they they uh they signed in a uh you cannot ban books.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a it's a no-ban ban books.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when we were standing up at school board meetings, again, this is this is elementary schools, you know, middle school and middle schools.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, fifth graders, fourth, fifth, sixth graders, and saying, hey, these books, these books are pornographic, perfectly normal is one of them.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it shows all of these uh di different ways to have sex, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and for 10-year-olds.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, that was called book banning.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: We said, hey, you know, we're we're not this is not about book ban.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to show your child pornography, do it at your at your home, but not in a public school.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: They uh they they passed a law that the funding can come out of libraries and and even some schools if they don't keep these books and it it's really it's really nefarious.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can't make this up, Daniel.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's true.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I agree with you.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and you just wonder where how bad it can get, and it can always get worse, I suppose.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing I would like I think it's important with this issue of the pornography and and transgender ideology, of course, John Paul II, we well know, St.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: John Paul, was uh very prescient and prophetic.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And in larger historical terms, it wasn't that long ago that he was the chief shepherd of our church, but actually quite a few years have passed since the development of the theology of the body and so on.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but now we can see, you know, in a way we couldn't even then how crucial and urgent this is.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that being said, the thing that I do a lot of thinking about again, and as a parent myself, is that I think that the importance, everybody knows it uh who thinks about it, but the importance of the family is also at the center here.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, we could say, I think, just as much that the breakdown of the family is a root cause, one of the root causes of the pornography epidemic that we're living through, and it only is cyclic, and then of course it just breaks down families even more.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have any grand solutions to this, but I encourage, you know, young people, including myself, in the way that my wife and I are raising our own kids, the impact that homes and families can have cannot be overestimated.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just enormous.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I look in my own neighborhood and the one the the the the children you know whom I fear will do something to fair show something to far to my children, I don't even have to guess before before I find out, you know, by small church or whatever, that they're you know, they're from broken down homes.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in that sense, the repair and what the church can do, I think, and faithful Christians and Catholics are already doing, you know, is to put the focus on that.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the public advocacy, I have it's all important.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with it, you know, 100% that we need to be raising our voices, but we just can't forget that um, you know, again, going back to John Paul II, if we just focus on building up families and making in marriage and strengthening that, we have done the most valuable work to contributing to a brighter future.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're a hundred percent uh right on.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I and I do in services uh for for schools sometimes, uh Catholic schools, and that's what we talk about.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, you know, they you know, we talk about the culture and all, you know, and because even the Catholic school kids are are coming in to school with with with this baggage, you know.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um but when when there's a problem, and I just had this yesterday with the principal, when there's a problem, it's because uh the a lack of father, fatherhood a lot of times, uh, or the father's into porn or something else, you know, and it's not paying attention.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it's that dysfunction, you know.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: We we can blame our shepherds, and I do plenty of times, because I think so many of them are are weak and and and pushing these ideologies even down on us, but but it's it's we the the blame can go around, can't it?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because those of us that are parents and and and grandparents, we're just learning, Daniel, that I have to stand up and be a man.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I have to start to really go.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: But here here's the good news.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not only are it some quite a few young people, young men, especially standing up, like we said, but we're all witnessing that our faith is real to what you just said.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can go right back to Genesis chapter one, you know, and I think Bishop uh Thomas did this, didn't he?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that you know, God says, Let us create man in our image and our likeness, you know, male and female, I created them.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I remember uh reading uh Godimes Spes, one of the constitutional documents of of Vatican II.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And number 36, I gotta memorize because I use it so often, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: When God is forgotten, the creature itself grows unintelligible.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: We no longer know who we are.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when I first read that years ago, I thought, yeah, okay, it kind of makes sense.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Man, as it makes sense now.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the good news is when we're speaking, when I'm speaking, and I'm sure it happens, or I'll ask you the question of this, when you're speaking to to young people today, there's there's there's some there's more attention.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: They that they'll they'll listen a little bit more because they've seen the brokenness for themselves.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about that?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I t I totally agree with you.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the um the relationship, as you say in Gunniman Spez 36 with that, the creature and the the creator, it's starting at the youngest age for children.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a challenge to do it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've got young children on my own, my wife and I, but it's helping them understand from the youngest age that this is an interpersonal faith, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: That God is real, that Jesus Christ became flesh, walked among us, and is still in the world through the world.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Came in a body, right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Came a male body.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Jack, I mean, that's what distinguishes, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh really that always has the Christian faith from other faiths.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's that incarnational aspect.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can pass that on in the ways appropriate to at the youngest ages, it will develop in such ways that be it transgender ideology, human sexuality in general, the way that one looks for a mate, a lifelong mate, and so it's going to be influencing all of that.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things we have to be more convicted of, I think, as Christians, is the distinctiveness of that incarnational aspect of our faith, as you say, that Jesus Christ became man, flesh and blood, and continues to defeat us with his flesh and blood in the Eucharist.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um it seems crazy, but in a way we see that, you know, throughout the history of Christianity, that uh during persecutions and during time during times of flourishing, that this is this is endured, uh this distinctive aspect of the Christian faith.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds abstract, it sounds theological, but we could be to when I say you know, Catholics who who are kind of in the know or read things like Gaudium et Spes and so on, you know, we can make the mistake of thinking that it's it's just so obvious when the preaching has to go on day and night to those who have not had whatever grace is to be introduced to this.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So a note about the bishops as well, I think uh, and specifically I'll start with Bishop Thomas, Daniel Thomas, who's the author of this pastoral letter, which I was so impressed with.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: He had no idea that I was writing the article, but I've I've known him for years, and in fact, he was my spiritual director in the seminary.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: So and I was always very impressed with him.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's a very fine man.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So did you say when you were in the seminary?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, long story, long story.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I was in the seminary and he was my uh uh he was my spiritual director, became a friend, and uh, and I didn't know he was writing this letter.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't not been in regular touch with him for years, but uh he he's the kind of man who is very sensible but does have a a pastoral heart.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so what's interesting about this letter, what I want to mention is that, you know, and I mentioned at the end of the article, I think, in Catholic Exchange, that this is the kind of thing that you produce from the highest levels, or at least probably better.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: When I say highest levels, I mean the Holy See and Rome.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But really, it should it these two things that should be produced by the USCCB, by the conference.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now they have some good material and so on.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, what I think I I don't have the article in front of me, but I think what I suggest is perhaps what we could do now is let bishops like Dan Thomas, you know, produce this material and and encourage his brother bishops, almost all of whom, to be honest, for all their weaknesses, probably would like to produce something similar.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let them do it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Encourage them to do it, find them ways to do it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because the the sympathy that I do have for some of them who are contemporaries of mine and I know them well, are the same ones that I expressed earlier in my own being caught off guard about where we were because of the generational differences.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So some of them, it might be a bit more, let's say, surreptitious than that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: They might have an agenda.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't deny that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in fact, I'm sure it's the case in some when it comes to the bishops and in some certain cases.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But overall, I just think that it's an underestimation of what to place as the critical priorities of our preaching and our teaching and this family, transgender, all that the things that Bishop Thomas, I think, displays in this pastoral letter are the things that we need to put right back up at the top of our priorities.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I I would just make uh for our listeners here just a quick, you know, when you think about Catholic social teaching, I always tell them, I said, just think about a triangle like a pyramid in front of you, with with with the long part, the base on the bottom, held up by marriage and the family on one side and Christ and the church linked on the other side.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's always there, Daniel, to your point.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to I want to stay on that point a little bit because people are all nervous up here, you know, in in what we would call polity, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the culture and then polity, which is really the way we organize uh ourselves, et cetera, et cetera.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it all starts here.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't get this right, marriage and the family right, uh, then the the rest of it will will not happen.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's all and you see it, the decline of the culture and the decline of the nation.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to build this up first.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important what you just said because it focuses us, right?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get let's get our hearts right.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get marriage and the family right.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Claymore is all about.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Those two things.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: We always say, hey, let's get the man's heart first back, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he he his reason is reasonable and his heart is is settled down, right, into this relationship that you you just brought out.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then the model, what is marriage and the family?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: What is love connected to Christ and church?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Then we go out and we restore the culture and the nation.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for all the I'm sorry, Jack, you had to interrupt.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to emphasize for those who kind of know or are interested in the teaching of the church, for all the emphasis that uh John Paul II, St.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: John Paul gets, which he deserves on the theology of the body and so on.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's I've been doing a lot of reading of the early 20th century documents of of Leo XIII and Pius XI, Pius XII.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Incredible.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that and even actually late 19th century.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: This was what you just said, Jack, was precisely the message about family in Christ as the center.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: John the 23rd.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Leo the thirteenth, that you know, it is is the one came that's where I was reading when I came up with the triangle thing to help people.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so this is not so new, and there's a lot of wisdom to be gained by going back pretty far, you know, in recent history, that is, to uh to retrieve what these priorities should be.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and Centennius Amos a hundred years, that's exactly what John Paul was doing.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: He he gave credit to Leo XIII and you know, in with re-rum Navarum, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and said, Hey, I'm not making this up.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just pulling it forward, you know, and so beautiful.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So so was were those elements in there?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I read quickly this morning, and then I ran out of time.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I I wanted to finish Bishop Thomas's letter that we're he called it the body reveals the person.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so speak a little bit.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: What was it uh that impressed you about this?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And because I want our audience to be confident to pull this and to read it and to you know to take it to heart.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks, Jack.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's easily findable uh through Google search or just going to the Diocese of Toledo website.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, I discovered it because of another article that I had read.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I did not see it when it first came out.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was I hadn't been in touch with Bishop Thomas, even though again I've known him for years, but I didn't know this was coming out.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I immediately went to the website because it sounded like something that really, again, was somewhat extraordinary.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what I found extraordinary about it, a few things.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: One is that it is one thing to get the teaching straight.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's a lot of confusion about what the church teaches, there's no doubt about it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: But he frames this, this pastoral letter, and you had already mentioned this, Jack, in terms of himself as a shepherd for his people, acknowledging the struggles that young people are going through and that families are going through with these issues, which goes a long way.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Dare I say that this was for uh better or worse because it had various repercussions and consequences, but Pope Francis's approach to a large degree of listening, of reaching out, and so on.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: But Bishop Thomas kind of takes this approach where he says, Listen, we know your struggles, and I I listen to you, I feel for you, and so on.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then it goes into some sections where it does lay out in very elementary terms the teaching of the church on um uh on sexual gender, marriage, and so on.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: It goes through Genesis and Genesis 3 and and all the things we will go through that created in the world.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, unpack a little bit of that.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know I you you probably can't go through the whole thing, but but unpack a little bit.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So when when when people say, okay, well, what is exactly uh the good, yeah, thanks.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So so what he uh uh points to is the fact that God creates man and woman deliberately, and that when Eve is created, Adam looks at her and says, Finally, you know, one like my own.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, there is an equality, a dignity, a shared dignity from the very outset.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And John Paul II unpacks this, whom Bishop Thomas footnotes and actually quotes a couple of places, but this is a key insight is that the the equal dignity of man and woman.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that so important?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, later in the letter, as Bishop Thomas explains, a lot of the gender ideology, which we were discussing before, is based on a fundamental assumption, right, that there is not this created equal dignity of men and women, that women are somehow inferior, or in fact, that it's not revelation in God who has that God has revealed to us the equal dignity, but we're the ones to choose it, so we have to take action to make sure that we set up this equality, equal and dignity of men and women.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that involves, in fact, giving freedom to young people to follow their so-called hearts and decide you know what's going to give them more dignity.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So in this part of the letter, where Genesis is unpacked by Bishop Thomas briefly, he makes the reminder, uh, he gives the reminder that, in fact, be assured for all your confusion you were created, you know, with this unspeakable infinite dignity.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't hesitate to use that term.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people were kind of uncomfortable.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is a side note with infinite dignity, which was recently used in magisterial teaching.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have no problem with it, if it pro if it's properly understood.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because people need to hear that, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with infinite dignity.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um that goes on to an affirmation, and I believe that Bishop Thomas quotes, yeah, he does quote somebody here and saying that the problem is not that you were born in the wrong body, but you were born in the wrong culture.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this is true.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: I did read that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Repeat that uh again, if anybody just was sure double ta, you know, multitasking.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good one to remember.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good one to remember.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's that speaking to young people, the main message is when they say, or because this is a common trope, I feel like I was born in the wrong body.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: The response is you are not born in the wrong body, you were born in the wrong culture.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because what's behind that quote is the fact that it's these cultural influences that are that are putting young people, you know, out at sea, lost with the questions that they have.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the struggles that they're having, you know, I mean, it's just part of growing up.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: We all had them pre-pubescent kind of struggles.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: But now we're adding to that mess and that mix with all of, again, these cultural influences upon young people.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing that we can maybe discuss a little bit later, Jack, which you mentioned, I mean, the timeliness of our our meeting today, um, and I should mention today's uh February 4th.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is going to air later, but just today, in a New York Supreme Court, because uh, which is various courts, they have their court system, but anyway, a New York Supreme Court decision just came down with someone, a young lady who was who was what they call right now detransitioning now.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: So she had a double mastectomy because to become male and has regretted it, and now she's suing for medical malpractice.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: The jury decided in her favor.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is big news.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: For the first time, I think, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: For the first time.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: $2 million or something.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, in a state of$2 million.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a big deal.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I should just mention, I want to mention this parenthetically here, because the grounds of the suit were on malpractice.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, it's not tied up with the ideology so much.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the ideology is behind it in a sense, and the response to it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: But this is simply medical malpractice.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, that there was pressure she was feeling from her doctor and psychologist, both of whom were the defendants in the case of the from the doctor and the psychologist.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: The doctor denies having told her, although the mother of the plaintiff swears that the doctor said, listen, if you don't go through with the surgery, you're gonna have thoughts of killing yourself.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not an isolated case.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is not an isolated case.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So why am I and parents hear that a lot?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: You hear it with you hear this a lot.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Your child, you know, is going to commit suicide if we don't go through it this surgery.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's just uh it's yeah, and um, so going back to Bishop Thomas's letter, this is what I admire.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I most admire is that although he has this pastoral approach, he tells the story for what it is with those aspects of it.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the pressures, and that's behind this quote of listen, you are not born in the wrong body, you were born in the wrong culture.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's an acknowledgement, right, that these pressures are extreme upon young people.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they lead to these decisions, which now we have a legal decision, which is going to be one of several to come, which are going to unpack the lying that has had to take place to protect these surgical procedures, many of which, if not most, I can't remember the exact figures, are considered to be irreversible.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, whatever happens.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're in the we're in the multi-thousands at this point, you know, where can you imagine?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I we meet, you know, we meet these people, you know, in our in our in our work.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, a young girl that had her breasts cut off, some uh a young man that actually was castrated, you know, and and not only castrated, I mean all the sexual organs taken out.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can't make this stuff up, Daniel.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you know, you mentioned earlier, you know, you think about if I'm a nine and ten-year-old child, just starting puberty, let's call it, I'm uncomfortable.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I ask an audience, I mean, who, especially the women, you know, who loved going through puberty and nobody raises their hands, right?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're uncomfortable.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: And now when you're told, let's say that you don't have, you have no faith in your in your family, you never even heard the truth, and now you're stuck in in the school systems, uh being pushed down from the government with the Biden administration.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Look at we had Rachel Levine, Richard Levine, a man dressing like a woman in charge of the secretary of the HHS.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this is really permeated.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: It it it it it it's the pressure to your point is really hard on these kids, and you're exactly right.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just go at these kids um and and just try to make try to reason with them when their reason has been twisted and distorted, hasn't it?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh again, the the the way in which it's become, let's say, you had a good example there of institutionalized, right?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Was the word that I would use.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: So another example of this institutionalization of the agenda is that the American Psychological Association came up with the clinical term of gender dysphoria, you know, so this kind of confusion.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is another thing in Bishop Thomas's letter that I really admire.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's saying, well, now that we have done that, that can just be uh abused completely because those who are seeking, let's say, a surgical procedure and whatever, they don't always fall under that category.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if we look at the truth of the category, it can just continue to expand to include it's just functional, instrumental, and continuing to embrace.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the reason Bishop Thomas puts in this letter is this just kind of emphasizes the fact that we're dealing with a cultural phenomenon, which is compounding the difficulties that puberty presents for young people and so on, or even pre-prepubescent, which is another aspect of it.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Even before young children should be thinking of this, they're forced to think about it.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, in any case, the gender dysphoria, it's the it's it's an example of this institutionalization.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have it in examples, the appointment you you mentioned, the Biden appointment.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: These kinds of things we have to be extremely attuned to because they're not accidental.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, that there are forces that are behind these decisions, these creation of clinical terminology and so on, that uh the last thing they have in mind is the good of a patient or the good of a nation when these institutionalizations take place.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it reminds me of Sister Uh Lucia, huh?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Of Fatima, who who wrote to Cardinal Kafara and John Paul II, and in this long letter said that the last great battle between our Lord and Satan is going to be over marriage and the family.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Getting to your point, uh Daniel, earlier.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the beauty of our faith, the beauty of and your background, you know, with philosophy and theology, people forget, I think, you know, St.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas Aquinas, this genius, you know, you know, took his philosophical approach from from uh Aristotle, and then you have the revealed truth on top of it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, Catholic teaching is so rich, isn't it?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So deep.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only thing that that can stand against, really stand against these ideologies, not not just from a positional standpoint, but for to help people actually understand uh what you're talking about here.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really gifted with this.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what it is, uh Daniel?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna take exactly what you're doing and what we're doing.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: The young men that we're we're leading, we're and we're building leaders up all over the country right now.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have a handbook coming out in three or four weeks, and and we're we're getting ready for that.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we're really walking them through all these things that you're talking about.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: The reason, uh Daniel, because I want every single man that has a concern about this to share this with any person that they meet, because it's gonna be hundreds of thousands of of lights.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: We all just gotta shine our light because there there is no knight in shining armor riding in on a white stallion that's gonna come rescue us, either from a political standpoint or a church, because it's it's just too embedded right now.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: We just gotta stand up, we gotta know that it's it's evil, and and we gotta go out and fight, fight evil, brother.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's yeah, for sure.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's a summons to all of us to hey, get off the couch and start doing something.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and it's a it's a spiritual battle at several different levels, two of which um I just want to mention, the one you've already mentioned, in fact.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is a battle of prayer and faith and so on, but it's a spiritual battle too, and this also comes out in Bishop Thomas' letter, in a sense that our tradition of Catholic teaching presents to the world things that are quite reasonable.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when it comes to transgender issues, one of those things which is quite reasonable is the fact that this unity of body and soul, the anthropology, which is at the center of our Christian philosophy and theology, is one of that perfect unity of body and soul.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the separation, the artificial separation of those two elements, which has caused so much of our suffering when it comes to understanding not just gender ideology or other things.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So let me just say a further word about this because I think it's a very important point.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because there are so many Catholics that even think of this of the soul as somehow kind of like the ghost in the machine, is what is often called this way.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that the body doesn't matter.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: If I engage in sexual activities, well, you know, it's the body is just an instrument.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not really me.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's really me is my soul, right?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of thing.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I mean, Christianity has always stood firm in asserting that you can't think of the soul without the body.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is true that the soul can exist apart from the body, that's true.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: But even then, with the separation at death, you can't think fully of what the soul is unless you think of the body.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just a message that I think is quite reasonable from a philosophical level, but also again, one at the very heart of the kind of theology that John Paul II was behind in showing that that is how we really exist.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And because it gives a dignity to the body, a sacredness that the flesh is not, you know, just something that's added on to who we are, it constitutes who we are.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I one other last point.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's such a good point.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's such a great point you make.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that that you know, you know, we're we're temples of the Holy Spirit, but we're also embodied souls, right?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so our body expresses our soul, expresses the spirit.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when we start to think about, we're we're created sacred and we're we're created to reflect love.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I ask people, I said, okay, well, you know what else you don't see besides your your soul and other things in the world is you don't see love, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: We we're all wired to love and be loved, but you don't see it until what?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Your body expresses it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: How how does a husband tell his wife that he loves her through his body?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, yeah.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: But he's expressing something that he's making visible through his actions, through his words, etc.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're doing, you know, and when we start to damage the body, we're we're damaging this visible sacramental reality, and and and there's a price to pay.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, and I really am into what you've just said, and uh to bring it down to a very practical level, I think, when it comes to education and so on, and this could be something maybe that you know, any of these young men and the militia's Christian, you know, thinking of as they read this and all that, but it's that sexuality, we tend to just think of that term when it comes to you know intimacy, physical intimacy.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what John Paul encourages us to do, and our faith encourages us to do, it's a much broader horizon.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I would say that one of my first, and it's gonna sound weird for people to hear this, but this is what you have to think about it.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: One of my first experiences of sexuality in this broadest sense was my parents teaching me how to ballroom dance, having a partner, right?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Communication with the body, this kind of thing.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Holding the door open for a lady, you know, whatever, showing up, right, to pick somebody up on a date, all these things, having her home on time, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: These are all the experiences.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: When we think of boundaries, you know, we have to think it's not just a negative thing.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a way of communicating, a way of relating to someone from the earliest age where you respect who they are created by God in their bodies, and you respect your own body and to communicate to them.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when we talk about for the youngest age, you know, when are when is it appropriate to start sexual education with kids?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, from the time they're infants, really, I mean, it's a larger sense.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the physical aspect of being loved and having a certain integrity to who you are by respecting yourself and others by the way you interact with them.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: We've lost so much of this discourse, right?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And even people with really good intentions because we're so obsessed with limiting the so-called sexual to intercourse or or intimacy, other type of intimate acts, where um it embraces everything we are when we think of it in that interpersonal communicative way, which John Paul II um so why am I saying this on the practical level, being a gentleman, right?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Being a lady, dancing, right?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's an art to that in communicating.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there is, yes.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that we have to, we really have to recover, I think.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, uh another way to say it, and you do express it so well, so thank you for that, is you know, we all these young people want to find the right person.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: You hear that all the time.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for the right person.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do they exist out there?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we always tell them, hey, you have to become the right person first.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're expressing here.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have to learn how to become the right person because when the right person comes along, Daniel, they reject me because they were also looking for the right person, brother.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't live up to those expectations.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'll just throw this as we end up here, right?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: What you said is so beautiful.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and when this pornographic culture came in, now I look at this young girl, say, from a man's standpoint, and I see her body.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's all I want to see her body and use her body, right?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: As an object.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: I see her as an even if I don't want to.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: When I really talk to these guys, and sometimes I'll just make it, like you said, practical.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say, dude, you know, let's just see this woman coming down like Adam saw Eve, right?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Bone of my bones, flesh my flesh, right?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: What was he expressing?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you just take the top layer of skin off, it's it's veins and muscles and tissue, and and even her breasts have milk ducts in there, and blah, blah, blah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what you're really looking for.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: You are awed by the beauty, of course, of her body that draws you into the mystery of the person, the mystery of God within that person.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And all those things do you explain?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're holding the door open, uh, you know, knocking on the door, meeting the father, etc., if I'm picking up a girl.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: All those things are just they're teaching you virtue, is what they're teaching you, right?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And absolutely.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and the the joy of learning virtue in that way.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's been a dress where it's just lost the joy of a simple date.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: What you just said is so important to talk about joy, joy, happiness, you know, to to to wake up in the morning and and be have some peace about you.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's joy.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what we're talking about here, it's not rules, is it, Daniel?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just rules.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's human fulfillment and joy, really.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: At the end.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: The time went so fast, Daniel.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're such a pleasure, man.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where can people uh read you?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I want them to read some of your articles, including this last one that you just did.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you have any place besides we go to Catholic Exchange?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Give us a little bit on that.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jack.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unfortunately, I need to organize myself because I publish in several different outlets and I I don't have I need to collect them somehow.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just mention uh I I'm a regular contributor to Catholic Exchange, but also a Catholic World Report, National Catholic Register, other outlets.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: If people are really interested, um I would encourage them to check me out on Medium.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I happen to be a writer more than anything else.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of my material on Medium, which is uh you know a platform for writers, uh, is behind the paywall, but not everything.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if they want to check me out, that has the most extensive uh kind of collection of things that I write about, which is a vast range of cultural and religious and spiritual issues.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: So also they can uh just go at the Ralston website and uh they can reach out to me, even if my email I don't think is is there on the college website.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: All they have to do is go to the general website, I'll get that email right away.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear from people.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll put it in the show notes and people have it all.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Super.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jack.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: All the best.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Daniel, you're such a pleasure.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, everyone.