Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 724: Strong Like Water with Aundi Kolber

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Episode 724: Strong Like Water with Aundi Kolber · The Trauma Therapist

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Are welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
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My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible cells, to be human,
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to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in
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who we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating
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authenticity, genuineness and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more about
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my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com. That's
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the Trauma Therapist project dot com. Let's get started. So five four three
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two and one. Our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very excited
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to have as my guest today. Ony Kolber Andy Welcome, Hey, thanks
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for having me. You are welcome. So. Andy is a licensed professional
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counselor, speaker and author of the groundbreaking book tri Softer and it's companion of
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the Trisofter Guided Journey. She's the owner of Kolberg Counseling LC, established in
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two thousand and nine and it didn't do her Amrian Community counseling. She's received
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additional training in her specialization of trauma and body cyner therapies, including the highly
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researched and regarded eye movement desynthetization, reprocessing therapy. A survivor of trauma and
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a lifelong learner, she brings hard one knowledge around the work of change,
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the power of redemption in the beauty of experiencing God with us in our pain.
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She's the author of her most recent work, Strong Like Water, finding
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the freedom, safety and passion to move through hard things and experience true clourishing
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Adie, welcome, before we start. What's ONDI where's that from? What
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is that with that background? Yeah? So, actually my full name is
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Andrea, and growing up, like, nobody ever got it right, Like
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it was so rare for someone to actually consistently call me Andrea instead of Andrea
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or um. It just folks always got it wrong. And so Andy was
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sort of a nickname of mine when I was especially younger. But then I
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started to play a lot of sports, and Andy, like my peers started
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calling me that, and it just became something that felt more like me.
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And so as I've grown and really even in my own healing journey, um,
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I kind of identify more, you know, just from the sense of
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like when someone says Ondy that feels like me versus Andrea, I'm like,
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yeah, that's me. Like it's it's on my professional things, you know.
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Okay, that makes sense. All right, Andy, let's let's get
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going here. Well, before we go, actually share with the listeners where
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you're from originally and where you are currently. Yeah. So I from Astoria,
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Oregon, a small town on the very corner of the Pacific Northwest.
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So actually grew up surrounded by so much water, which probably speaks a little
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bit to my love of water. And then I spent seventeen years in Colorado
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and now live in western Michigan. Okay, awesome, all right, so
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let's dive in here. How did you get here? Yes, not a
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small question, yes, yeah, But so I I'll just give you a
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little bit of background. I grew up in a pretty significantly dysfunctional family,
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quite a bit of developmental trauma, attachment trauma, experienced a lot of verbal
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emotional abuse, and so part of how I coped with that was by becoming
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someone who basically was like, well, I'll just figure it out on my
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own, So like going out into the world and you know, essentially finding
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ways to achieve or prove or hustle. Because that I experienced a sense of
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at least some sense of safety from that, and so where my journey took
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me ultimately was to become I got really interested. I've always been interested in
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people. I've always been fascinated by people. And so even before I had
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a sense of how much trauma I had, because for a long time I
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would not have identified personally as being a trauma survivor, I thought, you
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know what, yeah, there were some hard there was some hard experiences,
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but I didn't really have a lot of language to that. And so part
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of my journey was that I was really attracted to this field, to this
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field of healing and what could be possible, but initially really didn't understand my
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own story. And so for about the last fifteen years a lot, I've
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had a lot of different experiences through my own therapy, through my own relational
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work, where I've come to understand much more my own story, my own
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pain, and that has had sort of this reciprocal effect with my therapeutic work
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that I began to realize that a lot of the clients I worked with,
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who maybe they knew about a lot of things, they had some good knowledge,
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but it didn't transfer to how they lived. It didn't it wasn't a
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felt experience of things like safety or connection a lot of times. And so
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I guess it's a long way to say that, you know, this has
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been a journey of living into something, something that has been inside me before
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I even knew where I was going. And so I was a therapists for
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about eight years and I started doing some writing. Just before you get there.
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You said, you know you grew up in a significantly dysfunctional We're talking
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like from at age one forward. Yes, I mean there's not a there's
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not a time. I mean I identify as having complex trauma. UM.
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And I would just say, you know, I'm a little bit mindful of
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how much of my story I tell because of siblings and different things. But
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what I would just say is that both parents with pretty severe mental health history's
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addiction, uh, familial trauma UM. And so there was just like a
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lot of layers sure, um and and expecting you to share anything. But
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what I'm trying to get get an understanding of is at what point did you
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realize something's something not just something but trauma has happened. Yeah, So this
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is the question, right that Like even as you say that, I'm like,
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it's not it's not that it's like a it's not a funny question.
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It's that what I've come to realize is that I'm not alone in my experience
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of thinking that your life was more normal than it actually, like like thinking
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that you something you went through was normal, and then you come to realize
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that not everybody experience so much terror and so much fear and so much disconnection.
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And so what I would say is that it was gradual, Like when
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I was younger, what I would say, um, was that I knew
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things weren't completely okay. I knew that there was um difficulty, Like my
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parents had a very just um. Their marriage was explosive and scary at times,
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and you know, my father is profoundly he's a very abusive person,
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and so there were like multiple experiences of wow, that was that was a
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lot that was weird. But I think what I would say is that I
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never felt like I had permission to say, oh, I'm a trauma survivor.
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That felt like it was reserved, especially twenty years ago for someone who'd
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been through something very specific, like you've been through a car accident in this
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way, so now you are or you are a soldier and you came back
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from war, and so now you get to have that. So I would
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just say that for me, it really I didn't even identify as having experienced
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complex trauma until probably about ten years ago. I was well into being a
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therapist. I would have said, yeah, I had a dysfunctional like you
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know, there's alcoholism in my family. I would have said, yes,
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I had to have multiple interventions with both of my parents. Yes I was
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parentified, Yes I was over responsible, Yes I was hyper vigilant. Yes
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I even I wouldn't have known the word dissociation. But yes I checked out.
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And I still didn't think that was enough. At what point was there
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a point during that time were you sought out therapy? So when I got
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into graduate school I did. It wasn't until you got into graduate school,
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okay, And was that for what reason? Was it because you were required
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to or was it for a particular reason other than yeah, yes, So
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I would say that, I mean it was partly because I was required to,
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but it's I also wanted to. And I would say that during that
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time was one of the times where a simultaneously many hard things were happening in
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my family, Like that is when I no longer had a relationship with my
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dad. Like I mean, it was just profound loss, and I still
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didn't quite put together how bad it was. And so even in that time,
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originally I went to a therapist, and to be honest, I didn't
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find them to be that helpful, like like they didn't because I was very
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high functioning. I was. I was able to present, I could articulate
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myself really well. And that's what was always my challenge is that it was
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almost like because I looked like I was okay, I didn't people didn't think
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I needed the support that I actually did. Was there a therapists who encountered
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who when things to change for you? Yeah? Later later on, I
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mean there was. I had a really helpful mentor as well. I would
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say around the time that I was first going to therapy, and I would
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say that had some therapeutic significance for me because it started to begin to repair
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some of some attachment things and so but like a little bit later, probably
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like five years later, I had been in some different therapeutic settings like groups
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and things. So it's like I was, I was into that work,
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but I still didn't feel like I had quite that therapeutic experience that I was
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looking for. And then in the last ten years especially, I would say,
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I've had multiple therapeutic relationships that have been really really helpful, really supportive,
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have just continued to help me in my own journey. Was there can
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you point you particular experience when someone was able to kind of look behind the
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curtain of your Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I write about
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in both of my books actually is that has been the significance for me of
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the safe attachment with my husband. He was a person, like I would
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say, in my life, that was one of the first people that I
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felt truly deeply safe with, Like my body felt settled, and that allowed
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me It's not that I was always perfectly put together around to other people.
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It's just that I would only let so much come out and then I would
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shave myself and be like pull it back in, you know. And I
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think that that experience, you know, early in my twenties, probably you
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know, we started dating when I was twenty three, that began to shift
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my internal template around safety. And I would say that's the thing that honestly
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all other safety in many ways built on was right, like that coregulation with
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him of knowing, like I can just be exactly where I'm at, and
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you know, like one of the stories I tell in my newest book,
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Strong Like Water, I'm sitting in my parents house and they're about they are
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going through this, just this divorce has just gone haywire, Like it's so
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stressful, and I'm visiting and we're having to pack up the house. I
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only have like two days before I have to leave again to go back to
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Colorado. And so essentially what I know is that this is the last time
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I'll ever get to see my childhood home. And it felt like a funeral.
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I mean, it just was like, oh, the grief, you
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know, of just years and years of so much pain. And so I'm
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sitting in the living room and just feeling just profoundly alone, knowing that.
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And that's the thing that wasn't like it was familiar to me to feel alone
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in those kinds of experiences. The thing that was different is that I had
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we had just been married for about two years, my husband and I,
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and he was there with me and I, you know, at the time,
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it was just you know, sort of like in the background whatever,
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like doing his thing. And the thing that shifted in my even in my
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memory is that he came, and he came and sat with me as the
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tears are just falling down my face. And it seems like such a simple
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thing, but it was like that experience of truly in a very visceral way
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knowing I wasn't alone began to allow me to grieve in a way that was
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actually helpful, like versus just being stuck in the experience, like it could
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begin to actually process and shift. And so I would say, you know,
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though that wasn't obviously a therapeutic relationship, it's been a healing relationship.
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And so many of my experiences that in the in the decades, you know,
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like the decade and a half that's followed UM, have built on those
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experiences of that kind of safety. I appreciate you sharing that, UM and
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coming on here and talking about that in the first place. What was it
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that inspired you to get into the field? I think I I really,
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well, I'm a very curious person, and so I think that I was.
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I'm fascinated by people, So I think that was a part of it,
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just like why do we do what we do? You know, Like
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what are what are we about? How do we tick? I think that's
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a part of it. But I think it was also without even being able
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to identify it. Then, I think it was partly about about myself.
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I mean, it was partly like, you know, wanting to understand more
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deeply my own story and then wanting to sit Like at the time, I
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probably would have thought about it as saving, but now I wouldn't but think
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of it as saving, but as wanting to walk alongside folks, to empower
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folks as they do their own healing work. What do you think are some
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of the qualities of the elements in you that has hoped you along your healing
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journey? I mean, because it sounds like it's been I mean, for
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lack of a better word, crazy intent and hellish. Fortunately it's yeah,
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I mean, it's true. It's like there's a part of me. When
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I hear that, I'm like, oh, I know, but it's it
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has it has been. Yeah. I turned forty in a month, and
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it's so symbolic to me. So my book, this new book comes out
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the month that I turned forty, and that for me just feels like this
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beautiful reclamation of so much grief, so much suffering in my life, and
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so you know, going back to your question, I think that I have
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I have a I have a tenacity in me that when I was younger developed
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in order to survive. But at the same time I had I'm like highly
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sensitive, which seems very paradoxical that they can coexist, and at times that
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has created quite a polarization in me. But what has been so satisfying in
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my own journey is to see that the longer I move towards you know,
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integration, trauma resolution, those types of experiences, is that those qualities in
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me they become such beautiful resources. They have become such beautiful resources that I
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just I bless in myself. Like the tenacity piece. It takes some tenacity,
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right just to continue, I mean, particularly trauma work. Ooh,
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let's go like it's it is not the kind of work like that. You
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know. Sometimes I think about it like you're kind of stent standing on the
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edge of a cliff with someone and it's sort of like you're trying to walk
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them along this cliff. You don't want to fall in, but we're just
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trying to make sure, like we're trying to figure out what we need maybe
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from you know, from this pit and we're trying not to fall in and
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so so that tenacity has mattered. Um, but I would say the thing
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that I've had to really develop in my adulthood is my softness. And so
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you know, my first book is called Trisofter, and that that first book
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has very much been about recognizing that I didn't have the space to be soft
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with myself in many ways when I was growing up because I couldn't. I
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it really would have been a liability almost And when you when you say define
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soft for the listeners, Yeah, well, so here's what I'll say in
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my try Softer. I actually it's a whole framework that I see through the
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lens of being able to pay compassionate attention to our experience. And really,
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I think that definition actually still works with softness because it's almost like when we
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can honor and listen and validate our experience, we can soften. We can
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say, Okay, my body goes, I'm heard. It's like I my
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needs are gonna get met or at least be validated. So there's a sense
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in which we don't have to be in our defensive mode. And I think
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of that like that's softer, right, And for some of us we have
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had to be in defensive modes, and that has kept us from being able
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to be softer, to be gentler, to to be able to attune and
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listen and tend and so and so that whole journey. You know, basically
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this first book, that my first book was try Softer, and then my
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second book is strong like Water, and there is this beautiful fullness in that.
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What inspired you We're going to get to the most recent book here,
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but what inspired you to write that first book? You know, I think
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what inspired me to write that book is I wrote it from the place of
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this is the book I wish I could have given myself when I was like
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eighteen twenty, because it took me. I wrote the book that I felt
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at the time like hadn't didn't quite exist yet. And certainly there's there is
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there are some great resources out there, so I don't want to like say
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that there's not, um but I really wrote it from you know, I'm
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a pretty eclectic therapist. UM so I bring in things like interpersonal neurobiology and
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polyvagal theory and self compassion and mindfulness and you know, some DBT and I
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sort of wanted to say, okay, here's all these ideas, and they
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have been so helpful to me and to my clients, and I just want
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to bring them to one place and to maybe not tell the like complete story
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of my life, but to just be able to weave in some elements of
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my story. I wanted my reader to know, like, I get it.
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I get it, and this work, it is so much harder than
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most people will ever really acknowledge. And I just want you to know I
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know how hard this work is. So I'm speaking with Andy Clober. Her
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most recent book is called Strong Like Water, finding the freedom, safety,
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and compassion to move through hard things and experience true flourishing. So how did
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this sect this book come about? Yeah, so this book. I'm really
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excited about this book. I think that for me in many ways. I
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don't know if I'm pronouncing this right, but there's a quote and I think
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it's from Laozo. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing his name right, but
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he says, what is soft is strong, and so you know, try
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softer at first was like this experience of just this vital, important part part
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of my healing, and it's something that I'll never I mean, it's always
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going to continue to be a part of my healing. But I see strong
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like water as almost like softness cannot help, but birth strength like true generative
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softness, births us strength in us, and so strong like water is almost
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like for me, sort of like panning out the video like like a like
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a movie camera, and it's about I think what it means to be human.
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I think it's about it's a it's almost you know, it has stories
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and it has research, but it's also you know, I introduce some sort
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of some theory around. Here's what I think and how I believe we can
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redefine strength. Our culture, we have a very narrow view of strength.
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And because that view is so narrow, I think that especially those of us
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who have had to be strong in a very specific way, we feel this
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sense of like, man, I don't want to accept helped because because that
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wouldn't be strong. Oh I don't I don't want to be compassionate towards my
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self because that wouldn't be strong. You know, Like there's all these implicit
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ideas about about strength. And for me, you know, I have just
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had and I've had an ambivalent relationship with that experience of strength. I have
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carried that heavy burden for many many years of my life, and I've I've
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seen other people carry that burden, and I just there's almost like this fire
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in my belly that is sort of is like, you know, I don't
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really want this word strength to have to so be associated with experiencing harm all
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the time. Like maybe strength is more and yes, like there are times
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when we really all we can do is survive, like sometimes that is the
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only way through, and that is strong, but also like we are made
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and designed for so much more. We are we you know, what's the
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quote, we contain multitudes. And I don't want for myself and I don't
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want for others to have to believe that you have to live this narrow life,
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this tiny, contracted, small life to be strong. I don't think
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that that's really doesn't do justice to the like the fullness of how people are
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created. I think there's a lot more to us. Wow. I mean
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you can feel your energy on the seriously and your passion and I'm thinking to
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myself, you have so much to give and yeah, it's it's you're pretty
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amazing. Um, how do people reach you? What's the best way?
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Yeah? Um, well you can find me at my website Onty Coolber dot
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com. You can find me on Instagram at Ony Colber, Sorry at Ony
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Colber, or you can find me on Twitter at Ony Colber Okay coober dot
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com. Um, your books are up there and um I'll have these linked
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up at the show not page at the Traumatis podcast dot com. I'd love
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to have you back at a later time. Um. Yeah, thank you
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so much for being here and sharing your story in your heart. Thank you
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so much for having me all right, take care