Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 233 - Jay Fine - President R&D at Evolveimmune Therapeutics

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Episode 233 - Jay Fine - President R&D at Evolveimmune Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
So welcome back to another episode of the Biohub, the
0:09
Evetics podcast. Today, we're thrilled to be
0:10
joined by Jay Fine, who's the President of R&D at Evolve
0:14
Immune Therapeutics. Jay brings more than 30 years of
0:17
experience across drug discovery and development with a career
0:20
spanning immunology, immuno oncology, inflammatory diseases
0:24
and tissue fibrosis. Before joining Evolve Immune,
0:26
Jay spent significant time at Boehringle Ingelheim, where he
0:30
served as SVP and Global Therapeutic Area Head for
0:33
Immunology and Respiratory Diseases.
0:35
Jay joined Evolve Immune in 2022, bringing his depth of
0:38
experience to a company taking an innovative, innovative
0:41
approach to immune oncology and developing multifunctional
0:44
therapeutics designed to overcome some of the key
0:46
limitations of current cancer immunotherapies.
0:50
In today's discussion, we'll explore Jay's 30 plus year
0:52
journey through drug discovery and development, the lessons
0:56
he's learned from taking drugs from early discovery and into
0:59
the clinic. And Evolva means pipeline.
1:02
So Jay, look, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on.
1:05
How are you? I'm good, thank you, and it's
1:07
great to be with you. Yeah, look, it's, it's an
1:10
absolute pleasure as well. Let's just start off with with
1:14
your, your journey, your story through the field.
1:16
So you've spent more than three decades at the forefront of drug
1:19
discovery, working across academia, government research,
1:23
large pharma companies, and now venture backed biotech
1:26
companies. Just give us a high level
1:29
overview your your journey through the field and and
1:32
ultimately how you ended up where you are today.
1:35
Yeah, yeah. Thanks.
1:37
So my family would say that my scientific career started when I
1:41
was six years old. My uncle who is a physician and
1:45
a big influence in my life, I gave you a microscope and I
1:48
looked at all the things under microscope that 6 year olds
1:51
would be interested in, wings of insects and hair follicles and
1:54
things like that. And I always was very curious
1:57
about how things worked. I, you know, was very focused on
2:02
science and math when I was in in school and majored in biology
2:07
in college. And and I became very interested
2:10
toward the end of my time in in College in the field of
2:15
toxicology, which at the time was sort of a not well
2:20
developed, but was being developed on the heels of what
2:24
had happened in perhaps the the prior 20 years.
2:27
It was a book called The Silent Spring by an author named Rachel
2:32
Carson, who started to describe the effect of man made
2:36
chemicals, especially after a World War 2 that was starting to
2:40
have an impact on human health and and human disease.
2:45
And that was fascinating to me. And so I, I from college, I went
2:49
to the University of Rochester, which had a significant
2:53
toxicology program and really got to learn among the leaders
2:56
in, in the toxicology space. When I was there, I really
3:00
became interested in immunology. At the time the intersection of
3:04
toxicology and immunology was not standard, but I had come
3:09
across a paper during my first year in Graduate School from 2
3:14
Australian scientists who wrote about an organ and called.
3:18
The thymus, which is a small organ that sits on top of your
3:22
heart, is very important in developing help the development
3:27
of your immune system and particularly the T cells of your
3:29
immune system. And I became very interested in
3:32
some of the work that was being done on the thymus and how the
3:35
these environmental chemicals that I alluded to a moment ago
3:40
might have an impact on the development of the immune
3:42
system. And that really formed basis for
3:43
my, the next, you know, several years of my career in Graduate
3:47
School and then in a research associateship at the National
3:51
Cancer Institute at the NIH in Bethesda, MD.
3:55
And during that, all that time, I was really very much focused
3:57
on the thymus, whether it was the toxicology, the effects of
4:01
contaminants, or just how the thymus worked in general.
4:05
And that led to a my first job in the industry, which was at a
4:10
company called Share and Cloud, which at the time was among the
4:14
leaders in the biotech space. They had had some foresight to
4:20
create some intellectual property around a number of
4:23
cytokines and tools to neutralize cytokines.
4:27
Now that is forms the basis for a number of therapies for
4:31
autoimmune diseases such as tumor necrosis factor
4:35
neutralizers or Interleukin 23 neutralizers at the time was
4:39
much more nascent field and I had the chance to work on a
4:41
molecule called interleukin 10 in my early days and then at
4:45
Schering Cloud get into other areas besides the cytokine
4:49
field, small molecules and pharmacology and and a number of
4:55
different areas. And during that time I became
4:59
fascinated with how we might apply our early learnings about
5:04
mechanisms of new drugs. Candidate drugs were developing
5:08
on in terms of impacting human health and, and, and how they
5:13
actually these mechanisms actually work in the context of
5:16
disease. And that really fostered a
5:21
strong interest I had in what we now call translational science
5:24
or translational medicine. And I had the chance at Scherer
5:28
and Plow to really develop those interests further and then do
5:31
some good work. And that led to a subsequent
5:35
role at Roche, the other large pharma company for several
5:39
years, where I was able to build a translational immunology group
5:41
from scratch. And I really commit some
5:44
energies and resources and build a team around this space.
5:49
And then subsequently that led to a leadership role at bearing
5:54
in Line, where ultimately, as you mentioned was the global
5:58
head of immunology and respiratory diseases, the
6:01
therapeutic area there. And we had a lot of opportunity
6:05
to push the envelope in terms of innovation, building on
6:10
translational principles that I had had the chance to start to
6:13
develop earlier. We were able to bring my group
6:17
was played a seminar role in the discovery and development of
6:20
several products which are now on the market.
6:23
And I was at BI for over a decade, spent some time as the
6:27
US site head as well. And then after about 10 plus
6:32
years, I decided it was the time for to try something new.
6:37
I'd always been in the immunology respiratory
6:39
inflammation space and but the the work being done out of
6:43
albumin therapeutics really attracted me.
6:46
The quality of the science, the innovative potential and the
6:49
chance to work some really outstanding people.
6:51
And that led to my move to biotech about 4 1/2 years ago.
6:56
And I'm really enjoying it. And it's really allows me to
6:59
really take advantage of a lot of what I learned and have the
7:03
opportunity to experience in my prior roles in large pharma, but
7:07
bring them to a small biotech environment.
7:09
Amazing. And yet, so you look at a lot of
7:12
people, they spend the bulk of their careers, you know, staying
7:15
at large pharma for, for the, the majority of the careers you,
7:18
you made the decision to join evolve immune at a relatively
7:22
early stage in its development. What, what motivated that move?
7:26
What, what was it about the science, the platform or the
7:29
company's vision that convinced you that this was worth an
7:32
opportunity worth pursuing versus maybe just, you know,
7:35
enjoying your career in pharma and eventually just retiring
7:38
there to talk us through like motivations of, of why you
7:40
joined evolve immune, but but also wanting to, to maybe get
7:43
into a more of a biotech set. Yeah, Yeah.
7:47
So, you know, my time in Lloyd Pharma was was amazing.
7:50
I learned so much. I, I, I really feel very blessed
7:54
to have had that experience. I think there was a few
7:59
principles there. I was looking for a new
8:01
challenge and I had spent a lot of time in big pharma and it
8:06
seemed that small privately held biotech offered a lot of
8:12
opportunity. In particular, the opportunity
8:14
to really focus in on a technology and on bringing that
8:19
forward and perhaps with some speed compared to some of the
8:23
complexities of large pharma that would allow us to address
8:27
patient unmet need soon. I think the new technology
8:31
clearly that we're deploying, which is we call integrated Co
8:36
stimulation in AT cell engager was certainly a a big part of
8:40
it. The chance to be at the cutting
8:43
edge of a new technology and and see that through and steer that
8:47
into the clinic was you know a real opportunity.
8:52
So it's about the technology, it was about the science, it was
8:54
about line of sight to the clinic, and it was about the
8:58
people at the end of the day, who you work with, what you can
9:02
learn from them. That I'm rodder that teamwork,
9:06
collaboration is really important for any successful
9:08
endeavor, especially in science. Science is a team sport and I
9:11
felt that the technology but also the people at Evolve Immune
9:15
really stood out and it was actually quite an easy decision
9:18
for me to join Evolve Immune based on those features.
9:23
Yeah, amazing. You've obviously been on both
9:26
sides of the table, large farmer and biotech.
9:29
It can be dramatically, dramatically different in terms
9:32
of resources, speed, decision making and and risk tolerance as
9:35
well. Having worked extensively in,
9:38
you know, in both environments, now what what are some of the
9:41
big differences you've experienced?
9:43
What advantages do you believe smaller biotech companies have
9:46
around innovation and that sort of stuff as well?
9:50
Just talk us through the two different environments.
9:53
Yeah, sure. So big pharma has amazing
9:57
features, the resources, the scope, the opportunities are
10:01
really tremendous and and they really were Seminole for the for
10:09
my career development to have those experiences.
10:12
But it comes at a cost pace is a little slower, decision making
10:16
is a little more complex. I have more layers perhaps to
10:21
sign off on on certain recommendations or to make
10:23
certain decisions. And at some point that becomes,
10:29
you know, a challenge. I think in the biotech
10:32
environment, the small company environment, there's just less
10:35
complexity. And I think that leads to the
10:38
chance to really, you know, make decisions and move forward
10:41
quickly. And that speed is invigorating.
10:44
I might even say intoxicating that one can, you know, you see
10:48
a new piece of data and can make a decision instantaneously and
10:51
just move on it and and you know, help to steer the team in
10:55
that direction, whether it's continuing the same direction or
10:58
making some adjustments on the fly.
11:00
So I think that that's really empowering actually that the the
11:04
cycle times the pace is, is quicker and it feels like you
11:12
can have more empowerment to reach the clinic and reach
11:16
patients sooner. And that ultimately was a big
11:19
part of my career choices and my decision to move to evolve
11:24
immunity. And certainly that's what I've
11:25
I've found in my experience there.
11:28
Yeah, amazing. Let's just dive into a little
11:31
bit about Evolve Immune for people that might not come from
11:35
a scientific background. How would you explain Evolve
11:39
Evolve Immune mission and vision?
11:41
What kind of problem is the company trying to solve and why
11:45
is that problem so important for patients who are living with
11:48
cancer as well? Just give us a high level
11:49
overview on that. So, you know, our tagline is
11:54
reimagining cancer immunotherapy to transform patient outcomes.
11:59
And the reason that's important is twofold.
12:02
First, obviously our technology, which we are strong believers
12:06
in, but there's a prelude to that and that, you know, 1012
12:10
years ago we had the first approvals in cancer
12:12
immunotherapy and they've been remarkable and transformative in
12:17
their own right for patients suffering from many cancers.
12:21
We now have diseases where 20 to 30% of patients achieve with
12:26
those first generation cancer and male therapies for two,
12:30
sometimes as checkpoint inhibitors.
12:32
We see 20 to 30% of those patients demonstrate durable
12:36
remissions or perhaps even cures of their cancer, something we've
12:40
never seen before. And there's, and we've learned a
12:43
lot from how these cancer and their therapies have worked,
12:48
both in terms of what they're good at and where they leave
12:52
opportunity on the table for future patients and to enlist
12:56
future patients for deeper, more durable remissions.
12:59
And that's really our, our, our focus.
13:02
We've developed a technology which is based on a called AT
13:07
cell engager platform. What T cell engagers do is
13:13
redirect T cells are a key part of your immune system to
13:18
directly to the tumor by forming a bridge.
13:21
The antibodies that we, our T cell engager antibodies form a
13:24
bridge between the tumor cell and the T cell.
13:26
They bring them in close proximity, form an actual
13:30
interface. And our science is based really
13:34
on 3040 years of learning of, of T cell Physiology that enables
13:40
us to, we believe optimize this interface in terms of the
13:45
efficiency of the interface and of the signals that the T cell
13:48
receives from our our antibody and from the tumor cell itself
13:52
in order to provide for increased T cell activation,
13:58
increased tumor cell killing. And we think that that approach
14:02
by optimizing T cell immunity against the tumor ultimately
14:06
will yield deeper, more durable remissions.
14:08
We're currently in the clinic with our our first asset called
14:11
Evolve One O 4 and we're very excited by the progress we've
14:16
made and hope to be able to read out the data with our first
14:19
asset sometime in 2027. Nice.
14:23
You just mentioned Evolve one O 4 then which is the company's
14:27
lead program. Can you, can you just walk us
14:29
through the scientific rationale behind the therapy like what is
14:33
it biologically designed to do and why do you believe that this
14:37
has the potential to improve outcomes for patients who have
14:41
who have solid tumors? Just give us a high level
14:43
overview on the LEAD program. Yeah.
14:45
So we've known for 30 years or so that T cells require several
14:52
signals which are integrated as the cell receives them, the T
14:57
cell receives them, which are responsible for, as I said
15:01
before, optimizing the T cell response to the tumor.
15:05
The current generation of T cell engagers provides 1 signal to
15:09
the T cell. We provide 2 signals to the T
15:13
cell, sort of the conventional T cell receptor signal, but also
15:18
signal through another receptor on T cells called CD 2, which we
15:22
believe is some of us say endowed with special properties.
15:26
And that integration of the 1st signal, signal one and the CD 2
15:30
signal, let's call that signal 2 is responsible for optimizing
15:35
that T cell response to identify and more effectively kill the
15:39
tumors. So that's a key part of our
15:43
mechanism. The other part of our, our
15:44
mechanism of our molecule is a binding site on the tumor.
15:48
And we in this case for evolve one O 4, we are targeting a what
15:55
we think is a highly underappreciated solid tuber
15:57
target called ULBP 2. The our molecule has three
16:02
binding sites, 2 on their T cell as I described and won't
16:05
targeting the ULBP 2 on the tumor cell.
16:08
And that geometry, that configuration is what brings the
16:11
T cell and the tumor cell in close proximity and allows for
16:16
this interplay between these and the ultimate and superior
16:20
recognition of the by the T cell on the tumor cell and ultimately
16:24
to drive the tumor cell kill. And that's the basis for our
16:29
belief that we'll achieve deeper and more durable clinical
16:33
remissions for patients by optimizing T cells in a tumor
16:37
specific manner. Yeah, and and beyond evolve one
16:42
O 4, you guys are developing A broader pipeline based on its
16:45
platform technology. I'll, I'll break this up into
16:48
two parts. Can you give us maybe just a
16:49
high level on the rest of the pipeline that you guys are kind
16:52
of targeting beyond the league programme?
16:54
But also how do you think about balancing the need to advance a
16:57
league programme whilst simultaneously invested in
17:00
future opportunities that could become the company's next wave
17:03
of innovation? How do you balance that,
17:05
particularly in smaller biotech, you obviously have funding and
17:08
and cash that you can and need to to take into account as well.
17:11
Just just talk us through that. Yeah.
17:13
So there's two questions there. The first question in terms of
17:17
the pipeline development, so our technology is, is modular.
17:21
We can swap in and out binding domains for different tumor
17:25
antigens. We can modulate the strength of
17:31
the signal that the T cells receive and these are all very
17:35
important tunable features of our molecule, which allow us to
17:41
we think offer some precision based on the tumor types or
17:45
tumor type that we're seeking to address and and kill.
17:50
And so we have spent time advancing our technology and our
17:57
second wholly owned program we call Evolve 220 also targeting
18:01
solid tumors employs many of these technology advances that
18:05
we've learned over the last few years and we've we've
18:08
cultivated. And so that would be in essence
18:11
our second wholly owned shot on goal.
18:14
We expect to nominate a candidate for that program very
18:18
shortly in the next couple of months and to be in the clinic
18:21
in late 27 or early 2028. We also have a very productive
18:28
research and development collaboration with ADVI, our
18:31
partners which have deployed again some of our technology
18:35
advances with another shot on goal opportunity to bring a a
18:41
set of agents into the clinic to address unmet medical needs.
18:46
And that that collaboration is going quite well.
18:49
As far as how to balance the, the needs of the company vis A
18:54
vis Evolve One O 4 development versus technology advances in
18:57
pipeline development, I think this is always a, a, a
19:01
challenge. It's something we pay very close
19:03
attention to. Resources are are finite.
19:07
Clearly our the proof of concept in the clinic of Evolve One O 4
19:12
is incredibly important for a company.
19:15
And so we are, you know, certainly that would be our
19:19
first priority in the in the organization to bring that
19:25
clinical readout forward and in a efficient manner, in a speedy
19:30
manner and a high quality manner.
19:31
And we think we're on path for that.
19:34
I would say that innovation organizations really must
19:40
allocate some time to innovation, to technology
19:44
advances, to the how and how best to employ those technology
19:47
advances. It can't be too much and it
19:50
can't be too little. The percentage of time we sort
19:53
of allocate for that maybe around 15% or so.
19:58
I think it, it strikes a healthy balance between moving forward
20:02
the the most important priorities in the company and
20:05
and executing on those plus growing the innovation potential
20:10
of the company's offerings of the technology etcetera.
20:14
So that's sort of the balance that we've we've struck, but
20:17
we're always attending to that very, very.
20:21
Carefully and, and, and frequently to make sure we have
20:23
it about right for that period of time.
20:26
And then the other aspect, which is incredibly important and, and
20:29
I think is a adjacent to the way you asked the question is to
20:34
make sure our team understands what our goals are and what our
20:36
priorities are to make sure that everyone's rolling in the same
20:40
direction at the same speed. And that's something that we
20:44
spend a lot of time on too. Sometimes there are adjustments
20:47
or modifications to planning and it's important at the executive
20:52
level to be very clear and aligned on what's important.
20:56
It's also important for the team to to understand what what we're
21:01
doing, why we're doing it, and whether any adjustments are
21:04
needed in order for efficiency and focused execution to best
21:08
occur. Yeah.
21:10
Amazing. Just like so the space that you
21:13
guys are in, who are kind of some of the companies that
21:16
you're up against in the field is this.
21:19
And I never like to use the word competitors because I think
21:21
ultimately what you're doing is for the patients, right?
21:23
Are you, is it quite a crowded field that you guys are in
21:25
specifically? Is this an area where not much,
21:30
yeah, there's not much therapy that's taking place in today.
21:34
Like just talk us through like the space that you guys are in.
21:37
Are you more advanced than maybe other companies, or is this
21:39
quite an uncharted field of medicine that you're operated
21:41
in? So I would say that you know,
21:44
since those first approvals of those that first generation of
21:48
immunotherapies for cancer was checkpoint inhibitors in 2014, I
21:54
mean the field has exploded. There are a number of really
21:58
exciting agents within taking approaches that offer really
22:03
numerous modalities to activate the immune system to recognize
22:10
and kill cancers. And there's 22 too many
22:13
different type modalities that to to name right here that
22:18
otherwise we need a four hour podcast.
22:21
But what? But within the overall framework
22:24
of immunotherapy, there are a number of companies both large
22:28
and small that are working on different flavors of T selling
22:31
gaugers. And that's based on the fact
22:34
that we now have you know somewhere north of 10 approvals
22:37
of T selling gaugers for patients suffering from
22:41
hematologic malignancies and now for some solid tumors.
22:44
So we see this clinical proof of concept for the overall concept
22:50
and we're learning about their strengths and their limitations
22:52
and of course their approvals which are dramatically helping
22:55
patients right now. But we see within those, those
22:59
first approvals of T cell engages real opportunities to
23:04
improve for improvements. And our approach is highly
23:08
differentiated from what many are doing in that we are
23:13
utilizing integrated CD2 Co stimulation, meaning as I
23:18
described before our molecule being able to deliver both
23:21
signal one to the T cell and signal 2 through the CD 2
23:24
receptor, which is quite differentiated.
23:28
We're one of the few that's doing it in what a single
23:31
molecule. There are companies that are
23:33
tackling this by providing two different molecules to exert Co
23:37
stimulation. We believe the best play is to
23:40
do it in a single molecule to optimize T cell responses.
23:46
And so I think we have a quite a differentiated advantage for our
23:50
approach. Our molecule is highly
23:52
developable and highly manufacturable, which is no
23:54
small task. Kudos to our bio therapeutics
23:58
and our manufacturing teams. And we, you know, are really
24:02
eager to see the results for our first trial with Evolve One O 4
24:07
and to continue to build on our pipeline.
24:09
Amazing sounds, sounds super exciting what you guys are
24:12
building. Just to take it back to
24:15
yourself, you, you spent a lot of your career working at the
24:17
intersection of immunology and drug development.
24:20
When you kind of assess the current landscape, where do you
24:23
think the immuno oncology space stands today in terms of
24:27
maturity and what opportunities remain largely untapped in the
24:31
field as well? The single minded goal we have
24:37
and which all our competitors have is to enlist more patients
24:43
for deeper and more durable remission.
24:45
I mentioned before with the first generation, I mean maybe
24:47
2030% of patients achieve that. So there's still 7080% of
24:53
patients who need new therapies, who, who are desperate for new
25:01
therapies. And where it evolved, I mean, we
25:04
think we can contribute to addressing those underserved
25:07
populations. I think that the field of
25:12
immunology has really exploded over the last not, not just 15
25:17
years, but you know, 20 or 30 years.
25:18
You know, many really my career was fortunate, has been
25:22
fortunate enough to overlap with that explosion.
25:24
There's so much insights that we so many insights that we have
25:27
now that we did not have even 10 or 15 years ago, both
25:30
therapeutically but also mechanistically.
25:32
So I'm very optimistic that this ongoing new wave, ongoing wave
25:40
of innovation in the in the oncology space will yield fruit
25:45
and that fruit will be for patients who are living longer
25:48
lives and healthier lives and can experience their
25:52
grandchildren's graduation and weddings and to you really enjoy
25:58
a high quality of life. We're seeing that with that
26:00
first generation. I think there's much more to
26:01
come for patients. Yeah.
26:04
So, so your role today is is very different from that as a
26:08
bench scientist. How would you say your
26:10
leadership philosophy has evolved throughout your career?
26:14
What skills have become increasingly important as you've
26:17
taken on larger and more strategic responsibilities?
26:21
What would you also say that your leadership style has
26:23
evolved since going from pharma into biotech as well?
26:26
Just just talk us through that. Yeah, I I would say that the
26:31
most important thing I've learned in my career as I've
26:35
taken on additional layers levels of responsibility,
26:40
whether in big pharma or in in a small company is the importance
26:44
of communication. There's no substitute for
26:48
alignment at the end of the day, and aligned organization is
26:51
rowing in the same direction, understands what the priorities
26:55
are and is and is therefore enabled to implement focused
27:01
execution. I think the one thing I've
27:04
learned more than anything, what I I tell younger aspiring
27:07
leaders is the importance of intent.
27:12
Be very clear with what the intent is.
27:14
This is what is important. This is our these are our
27:17
priorities. This is what good looks like and
27:20
what we should be striving for. One of my former colleagues
27:25
refer to this as the Spice Girls question or the Spice Girls
27:30
approach, which is tell them what you want, what you really,
27:33
really want. And as I've continued my
27:38
leadership journey, I've relied on the Spice Girls, believe it
27:42
or not, to to really guide me. And am I, am I clear enough?
27:50
And does the team understand what is most important?
27:55
And in that way, they can make decisions, they can be
27:57
empowered, they can work with some autonomy once that
28:00
alignment is set to achieve the goals of the organization or the
28:04
goals of a particular focus area that we're working on.
28:09
Yeah. And is Evolve Immune continues
28:13
to mature as a company, What is kind of the next most important
28:17
milestones investors, partners, clinicians and patients that
28:21
should be paying attention to over the next 2012 to 24 months?
28:24
Just talk us about maybe some some important near term and and
28:28
longer term inflection points that you guys are working
28:30
towards. So a key value catalyst for us
28:33
upcoming is the the clinical results from our first trial
28:37
with Evolve One O 4. That is clearly the most
28:39
important that will in principle establish proof of concept for
28:46
our first asset Evolve One O 4 and also proof of principle for
28:51
the platform. And so you know that I would say
28:54
that's the number one value catalyst.
28:56
We do have milestones coming up in our collaboration with Abby,
29:01
which I think if successful will increase the conviction in our
29:09
platform and the visibility of Evolved Immune and the
29:13
technologies that we're bringing forward for patients.
29:16
And then our second wholly owned program Evolved 220 with a
29:20
candidate nomination before the end of this year and then a
29:24
hopefully AY&D clearance in about 15 months time.
29:29
I think these would be the the major catalysts that that the
29:33
community would be watching for and certainly our our investors
29:36
in the board as well. Sounds super exciting and, and
29:40
this is a question that we would always finish with as well.
29:43
If you were to sit down and have a dinner with any free people
29:46
from from past or present, who would you pick and why?
29:49
Doesn't necessarily need to be people in biotech, although I
29:53
mean, it can be if you like. It could be sports people, it
29:55
could be artists, musicians, historians, business people,
29:59
whoever you like. But yeah, free people you'd want
30:01
to sit down and have dinner with.
30:04
Why and and what maybe would you want to learn from them?
30:07
Yeah, I've always been attracted to the idea of folks who have
30:16
established something lasting, durable and their backstories
30:22
and what's what's interesting about their backstories?
30:24
How did they, what allowed them to, what enabled them to thrive?
30:28
What challenge did they have? Sort of I'm looking for that,
30:34
you know, accomplishments plus evidence for resilience of the
30:37
human spirit. And those are the type of people
30:40
who I believe been quite interested in and I've tried to
30:45
conduct my career keeping those sorts of things in mind.
30:48
Build something durable. Don't be afraid to enter new
30:52
spaces. And to to recognize that all of
30:57
our colleagues, you know, are we always deal with things.
30:59
We all have personal lives and there's always some resilience
31:02
that carries us through, whether professionally or personally.
31:05
So the three I've I'll mention now I think in different ways
31:09
have have displayed some of those characteristics.
31:12
So the first person I'd mention is a French or Australian
31:17
immunologist who actually was the discoverer of the role of
31:20
the thymus, which I mentioned earlier as was a key inflection
31:23
point in my career. His name is Jacques Miller.
31:28
He believe it or not, he was the last investigator, last
31:33
scientist who discovered the role of a human organ, that is
31:37
the thymus, which at the time was thought to be a vestigial
31:40
organ sitting atop the heart, which somehow disappeared after
31:47
upon adolescence or became a remnant after adolescence.
31:50
And because it disappeared or became a remnant, most people
31:54
didn't think it was very important.
31:55
But he and, you know, many years ago identified the role of the
31:59
thymus in educating these T cells that I've been spending
32:04
much of the time in our conversation talking about.
32:06
It's essential for the education, for the coaching of
32:09
those T cells to become mature and to be able to perform their
32:14
role in fighting off infection and then fighting off tumors,
32:17
etcetera. It's interesting as well that he
32:20
did this work. He got a lot of challenge during
32:24
his career because people didn't believe him.
32:25
He had a new concept, but he kept going and his work is now
32:31
recognized as Seminole to understanding a key part of
32:34
developmental immunology. He also lost two children at
32:38
young ages when he was doing this work.
32:41
I can't imagine what that experience was like together
32:46
with, you know, having a very fruitful professional career.
32:49
I'd love to be able to, you know, get to know him better and
32:52
understand what drove him during the that those periods of time.
32:56
So that's number one #2 is is a bit more recent.
33:01
Jacinda Arden was the Prime Minister of of New Zealand in
33:07
the late 2000 tens and early 2000 twenties.
33:11
She was that led the government during very tricky time.
33:17
There was a thing was a volcanic, major volcanic
33:21
explosion in New Zealand, which was a real crisis and had a big
33:28
humanitarian impact. There was the COVID pandemic,
33:32
There was A at least one major terrorism event in New Zealand.
33:39
And she was a fairly untested leader.
33:44
She writes in her biographies or books since leaving the Prime
33:47
Minister role about her imposter syndrome.
33:51
And every time these crises came, she was really challenged
33:54
very hard. And it made her have some self
33:56
doubt. How, how did she carry herself
33:58
through these these moments which were critical for the for,
34:04
for New Zealand and in some cases the case of pandemic for
34:06
the world. You know, she's clearly LED
34:09
during a time of challenge. And she did seems to have done
34:12
it with grace and with humility. I'd love to get to understand
34:17
what drove her as well. The third person I'd like to
34:21
have dinner with is my favorite musician, Bruce Springsteen, the
34:24
American artist. I grew up on the East Coast.
34:27
I always loved Bruce Springsteen.
34:29
I love his music. I love his songwriting.
34:31
He has a very authentic way of sharing his ideas through song
34:36
and his lyrics has a way of reaching the for the common man
34:40
in a in in a very authentic way. And I've loved his music for
34:44
many years. He also has been somewhat candid
34:48
with his battles with depression.
34:51
And he once said that I spent 3 hours on stage, you know, in
34:56
joyous rapture or something, something like that.
34:58
I'm paraphrasing. And the other one took 21 hours
35:00
of the day. I'm depressed now.
35:02
How did he, how he was he so creative?
35:04
How did he thrive really during, you know, some major
35:10
professional accomplishments and accolades and creativity, but
35:16
the same time was battling what appears to be inner demings
35:19
demons. I love to have that discussion
35:21
with him as well. So those are my 3.
35:25
Yeah, look, well, three great answers there.
35:28
Thanks again for coming on helping us out with this.
35:30
It sounds super exciting what you guys are are doing at Evolve
35:34
Immune. So I look forward to seeing the
35:35
the next progress particularly for Evolve one O 4 and yeah, Jay
35:40
was a pleasure. So thanks again for coming on
35:41
and and helping us out with this.
35:44
Thank you so much. It was great to have the chance
35:46
to tell our story and and thanks for the great questions.