Latest / The Piano Maven with Jed Distler / Chopin's Preludes Op. 28 on Disc

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Chopin's Preludes Op. 28 on Disc · The Piano Maven with Jed Distler

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This is Jed Distler, and welcome to The Piano
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1:03
so for This first anniversary episode of The
1:09
Piano Maven, I thought that I could take a large
1:12
scale and very familiar work, like the 24 Preludes,
1:17
Op. 28 by Frederic Chopin, and that I would come
1:22
up with 24 pianists. who have recorded the cycle
1:26
of 24 Preludes. Several of these pianists have
1:30
recorded the cycle on more than one occasion,
1:33
as you will find out. And because this is such
1:37
an important and iconic piece, I'm going to talk
1:41
about the work a little bit first and give you
1:44
some background information. Let's go back to
1:47
1838 when a writer whose name was Aurora Amantine
1:55
Dupin -Dudevant, better known by her male pen
2:01
name of Georges Sand, traveled to the island
2:07
of Mallorca with her two children and her boyfriend,
2:11
who was the composer Frédéric Chopin. And this
2:15
was intended to be a romantic getaway of sorts.
2:21
The trip turned out to be an utter disaster because
2:24
they wound up having really shabby lodgings and
2:27
the weather was so awful and rainy and cold that
2:32
it wound up aggregating Chopin's already serious
2:36
tubercular condition. In fact, several doctors
2:41
on the island came to examine Chopin and all
2:44
basically said, sorry, Frederick, you're going
2:47
to die. Also, Chopin had expected to have access
2:52
to a decent piano, but that didn't happen. So
2:57
during their stay in Majorca, Chopin still managed
3:01
to complete his Preludes, Op. 28. And I suspect
3:07
that the work's volatile changes in mood and
3:11
character from one piece to another may well
3:15
have a kind of autobiographical subtext in terms
3:19
of this ill -fated vacation. But I think more
3:23
importantly, the preludes represent a microcosm
3:28
of Chopin's style and his aesthetic on several
3:32
levels. Very structure, for instance, reflects
3:37
Chopin's deep love and regard for Johann Sebastian
3:41
Bach, particularly the well -tempered clavier.
3:45
And the Bach preludes and fugues of the well
3:49
-tempered clavier encompass all 24 major and
3:54
minor keys, as do Chopin's 24 preludes. Now,
3:59
Bach organizes the preludes and fugues by chromatically
4:03
ascending half steps, meaning that first you
4:06
have a prelude and fugue in C major, and then
4:09
a prelude and fugue in C minor, and then one
4:12
in C sharp major, and then C sharp minor, D major,
4:19
D minor, et cetera, et cetera. chromatically.
4:23
But Chopin establishes a different scheme based
4:28
on the circle of fifths. And if you are not a
4:31
musician, I'll try to explain this as clearly
4:34
as I can. The first of the Chopin preludes is
4:38
in C major. And then the second is in A minor,
4:42
which goes down a third of an interval from C
4:47
major to its relative minor key of A minor. And
4:52
then for number three, Chopin ascends a perfect
4:56
fifth up from C major to G major. And then again,
5:01
number four is in the relative minor of G major,
5:06
which is the key of E minor. And this pattern
5:10
continues for the remaining preludes. Like number
5:13
five is D major, and that is up a perfect fifth
5:18
from the... G major and then you have B minor
5:24
the relative minor of D major and so on and so
5:28
forth and this pattern of keys now this isn't
5:34
exactly an original idea of Chopin because Johann
5:39
Nepomuk Hummel did the same thing he used the
5:44
same kind of harmonic pattern in his set of 24
5:49
preludes, opus 67, that was composed in 1815.
5:54
And it uses this exact circle of fifths template.
5:58
And I know that Chopin was familiar with this
6:01
piece. There doesn't seem to be any evidence
6:04
that Chopin performed all 24 preludes as a cycle.
6:10
And it only was a... guess in the later part
6:15
of the 19th century, where pianists did begin
6:18
to play all 24 preludes as a continuous cycle.
6:23
I think the piece definitely works as such, and
6:27
it usually is heard that way now. So let's talk
6:33
about recordings of all 24 preludes as a cycle.
6:36
And as I said earlier, I've selected 24 pianists
6:41
who've recorded the 24 preludes as a cycle. I
6:45
should say that even beyond the 24 pianists who
6:49
I've picked, there are still fantastic recorded
6:52
versions out there. I mean, when it comes to
6:55
the preludes, Op. 28, we are really spoiled for
6:59
choice. We've been spoiled for choice for almost
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100 years, starting in 1926. 99 years ago, when
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Alfred Courtauld made the first commercial recording
7:13
of the Preludes, Op. 28, he probably holds the
7:18
record for the most studio recordings of the
7:22
Preludes made by one pianist. His first integral
7:27
commercial recording was from 1926, and he would
7:31
go on to record the cycle three more times in
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the studio. His 1934 recording is probably my
7:39
favorite of the four. First of all, it's better
7:42
sonically and he's on better technical form than
7:46
in 1926. The 1942 version he recorded in France
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is less well engineered and it's less well played.
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And we're not going to talk about the unpublished
7:59
1957 studio recording that EMI did. finally publish
8:06
in their 40 -disc Alfred Courtauld anniversary
8:09
box set. But it's the 1934 recording where Courtauld
8:15
conveys drama and ecstasy and poetry. every bar
8:20
of music and he has that ability to create a
8:24
totally different character for each piece just
8:28
through like subtle changes of sound and he has
8:32
this ability he always did to hit upon just the
8:37
right tempo now a less intense yet maybe more
8:43
aristocratic point of view with even more technical
8:47
refinement comes from Benno Moiseevich, whose
8:51
1949 HMV recording of the Chopin Preludes has
8:57
always been on the top of my list. And he offers
9:01
some interesting textual variants. For instance,
9:05
in the seventh prelude, he plays an altered version
9:08
of one measure where the melody is distinctly
9:12
different from what we normally hear. He uses
9:15
the Carl Klindworth edition. So instead of he
9:20
goes I mean, I can't remember exactly what it
9:29
is because I'm recording this really early in
9:31
the morning and I'm too lazy to take my score
9:34
out. Another recording from the 78 era. doesn't
9:40
get talked about often when recordings of the
9:43
preludes are discussed. And this is the 1946
9:47
recording by Arthur Rubinstein. He didn't think
9:52
very highly of this. And it's never been a recording
9:56
that has had the critical consensus that distinguishes
10:00
Rubinstein's other Chopin recordings. Like his
10:03
waltzes have always had a... critical consensus
10:07
about them and the Mazurkas, for example. But
10:10
returning to the preludes, I hadn't heard them
10:13
in a while, and I really like the vehement and
10:17
angular and anti -sentimental vantage point that
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he brings to this music. It kind of reminds me
10:24
of how Arthur Schnabel treated Beethoven. There's
10:28
none of the surface charm that you normally get
10:31
from Rubinstein. So in this sense, it's rather
10:34
atypical of his Chopin. Actually, his 1949 nocturnes
10:40
are... cut from similar cloth, I would say, but
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Rubinstein's Chopin Preludes, I think, really
10:48
deserve revisiting for sure. Now, I wish that
10:52
the 1949 Guillemard Novais Chopin Preludes on
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the Vox label could be remastered and reissued,
11:02
because these are wonderful and very individual
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accounts with all kinds of alluring voicings
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and nuances. It's very creative and subjective
11:14
playing, but it's always in the spirit of Chopin.
11:18
You have to hear these recordings if you can
11:20
find them. Just don't take my word for it. There
11:23
is a live Chopin Preludes that Music and Arts
11:26
published with Guillemard Novais, but the sound
11:29
quality is not very good, unfortunately. But
11:32
try to find these studio recordings of Novais
11:35
and the Preludes. And there's another underrated
11:40
and overlooked, yet technically really excellent
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and musically fresh interpretation that came
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out in the early 50s on the Decca label with
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Friedrich Gulda. This is really, really worth
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hearing. I'm going to skip over some other Chopin
12:00
Preludes recordings from the 1950s so that I
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can get to the 1960s. Geza Anda on Deutsche Grammophon
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features impressive pianistic refinement and
12:13
pinpointed detail in his finger work. He tended
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to be a pianist who was more into little details
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rather than being a pianist interested in the
12:25
big picture. And I think that works out really
12:28
well for the Preludes. Ivan Moravec on Connoisseur
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Society. This is a really marvelous recording.
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And he tends to treat each piece as a cameo miniature,
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almost like a... Fabergé egg, for lack of a better
12:45
analogy. And I guess the word refinement is really
12:50
appropriate here. I ever, ever so slightly prefer
12:54
these 1960s recordings to his still excellent
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and stylistically similar 1970s remake on Superfun,
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which is the one that you can readily obtain.
13:07
Now, the 1960s versions were available on the
13:11
VAI label on CD, and that disc is rather hard
13:16
to find, unfortunately. But if you do find it
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and you don't have to spend a fortune, definitely
13:23
grab it. Now we are going to get to the classic
13:27
reference versions of the Chopin Preludes Op.
13:31
28 from the 1970s. It's kind of simplistic to
13:36
say that Maurizio Pollini is Apollonian and Martha
13:41
Argerich is Dionysiac. But that pretty much sums
13:46
up their brilliant and musicianly and totally
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antipodal approaches. Perhaps Murray Pariah's
13:55
version from that same era splits the difference.
13:59
Now, again, I'm simplifying here. In the company
14:03
of Argerich, Polini, and Pariah, there was another
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marvelous version that tended to fall in between
14:10
the cracks. And that was Vladimir Ashkenazi's
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recording. And this is a red -blooded and passionate
14:18
account. But at the same time, it's quite scrupulous
14:21
in regard to the text. Now, also from the 1970s,
14:27
we had Claudio Arau, which is very highly rhetorical
14:31
and inflected, but what a golden tone he had,
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an extraordinary finish to the pianism. And this
14:40
is a more colorful and subjective and emotionally
14:44
convincing interpretation than the one that Arau
14:47
recorded in the late 1940s for Columbia, which
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I did not mention earlier. There's another 1970s
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version that was not approved for release at
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the time of its recording. This is with Rudolf
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Serkin. I think he recorded this in 1975, and
15:06
it did come out after his death. And the booklet
15:09
notes of the original release said that Serkin
15:13
had, quote -unquote, good reason not to sanction
15:17
its release. Actually, I think it was recorded
15:20
in 1976. I have to look. Anyway, it was around
15:25
that time. But I don't know why Cirkin did not
15:29
approve its release. Maybe there were one or
15:31
two smudges. But who really cares? Because this
15:35
is such interesting. wonderful playing. I mean,
15:39
Sirkin's forceful and unvarnished and angular
15:44
interpretation is very much in the mode of the
15:48
Arthur Rubinstein recording. Like many pianists
15:53
of his generation, Serkin is not averse to breaking
15:57
his hands, you know, playing the left hand before
16:00
the right hand for melodic emphasis and textural
16:04
variety. And you hear him do that in the simpler
16:07
lyrical preludes. But at the same time, Serkin
16:11
does not give you many of the so -called traditional
16:21
in the 17th prelude, the A -flat prelude. Those
16:26
introductory measures before the tune comes in.
16:35
Of course, I'm singing it too fast. Now, most
16:41
pianists make a retard at the end of those chords.
16:45
Then the melody. So they do... But Serkin does
16:57
not make a retard on those chords. And neither
17:02
does Frigigolda, for that matter. So you hear...
17:11
gives that melody a different kind of emphasis.
17:15
Now I don't mean to harp so much on those details,
17:18
but this is something that is kind of interesting.
17:21
Now, by playing number 18 in tempo with almost
17:25
little rubato and no melodrama, those unison
17:30
octave outbursts have much more of a stinging
17:34
impact than usual with Rudolf Serkin. And he
17:38
brings really strong power and clarity in the...
17:43
8th and 16th and 19th and 24th preludes. And
17:48
even at that point in his career, when Sirkin
17:51
was 70 or in his early 70s, he could still rise
17:56
to and vanquish virtuosity. challenges like no
18:00
one else. Now, before moving on to some more
18:03
recent versions of the preludes that I've enjoyed,
18:06
I should mention that Ashkenazi and Polnini remade
18:11
the preludes later on. Ashkenazi re -recorded
18:15
the preludes in the early 1990s, and these are
18:19
larger scaled interpretations than the ones he
18:22
did in the 70s. They're grander and more daring
18:25
in some ways, with more contrasts. in articulation.
18:29
But on the other hand, Polini's 2011 remake is
18:35
more austere and less inflected and even impatient
18:40
sometimes in the lyrical pieces. I really prefer
18:44
his 1970s version over the remake. Oh, I also
18:48
forgot to mention that Garrick Olson recorded
18:52
the preludes twice. He recorded them in the 1970s,
18:56
around the same time as Argerich and Polini and
19:00
Arau and Ashkenazi. These are good recordings,
19:04
but I think his remakes for... arabesque are
19:09
much much better and they have much more flexibility
19:13
in dynamic contrasts and color and poetry they're
19:19
really really fine readings of the preludes and
19:22
this came out on arabesque and it was reissued
19:25
on hyperion in the complete chopin works cycle
19:30
by garrick olson definitely check that out one
19:34
chopin prelude cycle from the 80s that never,
19:39
never got the attention that it deserved is one
19:42
with the young Jean -Yves Thibaudet. I think
19:46
he recorded it in 1987 for Denon in Japan. And
19:52
these are colorful, impetuous, and thoughtfully
19:56
detailed and technically marvelous readings.
19:59
And it's also very well recorded. I hadn't thought
20:03
about the April 2001 recording on the Erato label
20:10
by Nikolai Lugansky in quite a long time. But
20:14
I took it out again and listened again, and I
20:17
really, really like it a lot, much more than
20:20
I did many years ago. This interpretation really
20:25
personifies the Russian Romantic tradition at
20:29
its best, meaning broad tempos for the A major
20:34
and E major and F major preludes, and then you
20:38
get terrific speed and precision. and virtuoso
20:42
pieces like the G major, F sharp minor, and B
20:45
flat minor preludes. There's a lot of rhetorical
20:48
inflection, but it's never extreme. Sometimes
20:52
his fast finger work can be on the glib side,
20:56
but this is masterful pianism without any doubt.
21:00
And in a similar vein, the live Daniil Trifonov.
21:06
recording on Deutsche Grammophon from his Carnegie
21:09
Hall debut recital, is stylistically similar,
21:14
although maybe there's more audacity in his interpretation,
21:17
and it is better recorded. Now, for totally arresting
21:23
subjectivity and real audacity and boundless
21:28
creative imagination, here is a Chopin prelude
21:32
cycle that... I think, really walks on the wild
21:36
side. And that's the Sony classical recording
21:39
with Cyprian Katsaras. Now, he almost makes Cortot
21:44
sound like Pellini. I mean, this is such crazy
21:48
playing, but you cannot help but get drawn into
21:51
the sound world. I mean, Katsaras has charisma
21:55
up the wazoo. His recording of the preludes is
21:59
one of my guilty pleasures. I suppose that The
22:03
Cyprian Katsaris Chopin Preludes relates in the
22:07
same way that his mentor, Georges Chiffre, related
22:12
to the Chopin Etudes. Now, I wouldn't make Katsaris
22:15
your first choice, but once you get to know this
22:19
music from a relatively straightforward version,
22:22
you will really appreciate Katsaris, at least
22:26
I hope you will. I just have so much fun listening
22:30
to this recording. But for a subjective approach
22:34
minus the borderline eccentricity, I want to
22:39
draw your attention to the two live recordings
22:42
published with Grigori Sokolov. The first one
22:47
was from 1990, and I think it was first released
22:51
on a label called Opus 111. I know it appeared
22:54
on the Naive label later on. I honestly can't...
22:59
keep track of this recording's various incarnations.
23:02
But it's very, very compelling and the pianism
23:06
has extraordinary finish to it. And then there
23:09
is the Sokolov 2008 performance from the Salzburg
23:14
Festival released on Deutsche Grammophon. And
23:18
I prefer the 2008 performance in several respects.
23:24
I think the closer microphone placement gives
23:27
more edge to the accents, so that pieces like
23:32
the G major, F sharp minor, and E flat preludes
23:36
seem more specific, I guess, in regard to the
23:41
linear contours. But there are pianistic differences
23:45
too, like Sokolov uses less pedal, and he gives
23:50
crisper articulation in 2008 to the B -flat minor
23:54
prelude, and he's more direct and less stretched
23:58
out in the B -flat major than he was in 1990.
24:02
But still, I would recommend hearing both of
24:05
these recordings. I think I had written in a
24:08
review that his interpretation was something
24:11
of a more intellectualized version of Argerich's
24:15
impulsive interpretation. I don't know if I still
24:18
agree with what I wrote. But look, here are these
24:21
two recordings for yourself, and I would be curious
24:24
to see what you think. Now, I'd like to talk
24:28
about several recent Chopin Preludes editions
24:31
that I've really enjoyed. In 2013, Christian
24:37
Boudou became the first Brazilian pianist to
24:42
win the international Clara Haskell competition.
24:45
And one byproduct of his victory was his solo
24:49
piano CD released on the Claves label that included
24:54
the Chopin Preludes. And he brings a personal
24:58
voice and a strong point of view to the Preludes.
25:04
He conveys really passionate sweep, but also
25:07
great clarity in the first prelude's shifts of
25:11
texture. And the second prelude, I just re -listened
25:16
to it. At first, it seems like it's kind of slow
25:19
and straightjacketed. I mean, nowhere near as
25:27
slow as Sergio Fiorentino's recording. But the
25:32
carefully built up dynamic plan intensifies the
25:38
very disturbing dissonances. And these dissonances
25:42
in the second prelude still are very disturbing
25:46
today. And there's a real dry lightness to the
25:50
fifth prelude's cross rhythms. And number 10
25:54
has a lot of audacity to it. Those cascading
25:57
runs just... bolt out of the starting gate, followed
26:01
by an abrupt slamming of the brakes. I just re
26:05
-listened to number 16 and I noticed how Boudou
26:09
takes those six opening chords. One, two, three,
26:15
four, five, six. Yeah, those were six chords.
26:17
He makes this unwritten crescendo underneath
26:21
them. Chopin didn't write that, but it's quite
26:24
an effect. I had never heard that from anyone
26:26
else. Or if I did hear it from someone else,
26:29
I didn't remember. But it's a very, very interesting
26:32
and compelling interpretation. Some people may
26:36
like... Ingrid Flitter's recording of the preludes
26:40
on the Lynn label more than I do. They're very
26:44
beautifully played and there's a lot of refinement
26:47
to her pianism. I kind of find the recording
26:51
inconsistent because I feel that she underplays
26:53
some of the earlier ones in the set and she drags
26:58
out that B minor prelude number six. Well, I'm
27:08
exaggerating her tempo, but it never seems to
27:11
end. And that raindrop prelude just gets thicker
27:15
and heavier as it unfolds. I think I wrote in
27:20
a review that her raindrops are turning into
27:23
oobleck. You know, the Dr. Seuss story of Bartholomew
27:28
and the oobleck, when instead of rain, you're
27:31
getting this new invention called oobleck, where
27:34
everything is sticking to the ground and, you
27:38
know, you're getting stuck in the oobleck and
27:40
you can't walk. Well, those are the raindrops
27:43
in Ingrid Flitter's recording. The way that she
27:47
plays number 18, it's one of the most electrifying
27:53
renditions of this prelude I've ever heard. I
27:57
mean, wow. Talk about adrenaline revival. You
28:01
know, she's made some very compelling recordings,
28:04
in all fairness, of Chopin. I love her Chopin
28:07
waltzes, which are really delightfully old -school
28:11
interpretations. They're just irresistible. I
28:15
like her Chopin B minor sonata a lot. And there's
28:19
some live recordings that VAI issued of Chopin
28:23
that I think are terrific. Her nocturnes, I don't
28:27
like as much as other people do. I think they're
28:29
kind of meh. But anyway, she's a serious artist,
28:34
and do check out her preludes. Maybe you will
28:38
like them more than I do. Now, on the Zig Zag
28:41
Territories label, there's a recording with Andrew
28:45
Tyson, and I talked about him recently on this
28:50
podcast, calling him the Willy Wonka of pianists,
28:54
and that is a compliment from... from me because
28:57
I think he's a brilliant pianist and he has a
29:00
great mind and he's always taking chances and
29:04
he's never uninteresting. And I remember in the
29:08
booklet notes of Andrew Tyson's Chopin Preludes,
29:12
he talks about the tension between spontaneity
29:16
and craft that runs through these pieces. Pianists
29:21
generally are able to reconcile these characteristics,
29:25
whether you are a free spirit like Courtauld
29:28
or Moiseevich or Argerich, or if you are classically
29:31
oriented like Polini and Gulda and Serkin and
29:36
Ashkenazi. But sometimes Tyson crosses that thin
29:42
and fragile line between individuality and eccentricity.
29:47
He's always interesting, so you've got to give
29:50
him propers for that. However, I think a pianist
29:54
who really achieves an ideal fusion of impassioned
29:58
order and classical textual rigor is Wolfram
30:04
Schmidt Leonardi on the brilliant Classics label.
30:07
I think it came out on Piano Classics. also but
30:11
i remember when i reviewed this for classicstoday
30:14
.com i got so involved in details and i i just
30:20
wrote a very long review of this i got really
30:23
carried away with chapter and verse i think i
30:27
did so because i was just so fascinated by what
30:30
he was doing and i recommend that you read my
30:34
original review of this because i'm not going
30:37
to go into great detail here but i've posted
30:40
a link to my review, and so you can hear all
30:44
of these details for yourself. I think this is
30:47
a really terrific recording that hasn't been
30:50
talked about very much, but it ranks among my
30:54
top favorite Chopin Preludes recordings, certainly
30:57
among the more recent versions out there. And
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then on Harmonia Mondi, I've always liked the
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Alexandre Tarot recording. He takes the first
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prelude's agitato directive and he just simply
31:13
runs away with it. But he makes the right hand's
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triplet and quintuplet groupings very distinctly
31:20
audible. And I like his interpretation of number
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12. This is very interesting. You know, the G
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sharp minor. You know, most pianists drive through.
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the first big climax, which is at measure 21,
31:40
if you have the score. But what Taroro does is
31:44
really interesting. He kind of leans into the
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grace notes in order to underline the music's
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momentary mazurka -like feeling. And this is
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a very odd and unconventional, yet very convincing
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effect. And I don't know why other pianists haven't
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noticed that. little tiny mazurka inserted in
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the middle of this prelude. And in the B -flat
32:10
prelude, number 21, which is often treated as
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a lyrical, expansive piece, it has an unusually
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forward moving urgency in Tarot's interpretation
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that just dovetails easily into number 22, which
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is totally agitated. I think it's a really, really
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distinctive interpretation. There's only one
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tiny weak moment, which is a little bit of a
32:39
hesitation at one point in the 10th prelude in
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the descending right -hand runs. But look, it
32:45
really doesn't matter. This is a terrific Chopin
32:48
prelude. However, if... I had to make a top recommendation
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among all of the recent versions that I was just
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talking about. It would be the recording on the
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Alpha label by Bezard Abduremov. And his stellar
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technique and his intelligent musicianship and
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his feeling for tonal nuance stand out in every
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piece. Not only does he nail No. 3's difficult
33:19
left -hand runs, but he shades them very subtly.
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And he gives amazing cross -rhythmic definition
33:27
to No. 5, No. 8. There's a real shimmer to the
33:33
very elaborate textures. It's just so transparent
33:37
and clear, but the music still moves and it still
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has passion. And his fleetness and poise in such
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virtuoso show pieces like No. 16 and 19 and 22
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and 24, I think are very close to the classicism
33:57
of the 1974 Polini recording. But there's a little
34:02
more dynamism and passion to them, I think. But
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there is so much color and authority to Abduremov's
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playing that you really can't ignore it. This
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is one of the finest versions of the Chopin Preludes,
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really from any generation. So there we have
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it, 24 pianists. Alfred Courtauld, Benno Moisejevic,
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Arthur Rubinstein, Guillemar Novais, Frigia Gulda,
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Geza Anda, Ivan Moravec, who recorded it twice,
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Maurizio Pellini, who recorded it twice, Martha
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Argerich, Vladimir Ashkenazi, who recorded it
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twice, Claudio Arau has two studio recordings,
34:46
Rudolf Serkin, Garrick Olson, who recorded it
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twice in the studio. Jean -Yves Thibaudet, Nikolai
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Lugansky, Daniel Trifonov, Cyprian Katsaris,
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Grigory Sokolov, who recorded it twice officially,
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Christian Boudou, Ingrid Flitter, Andrew Tyson,
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Wolfram Schmidt -Leonardi, Alexandra Tharot,
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and Bezad Abdureimov. 24 pianists in recordings
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of the 24 Preludes, Op. 28 by Frédéric Chopin.
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So which one would I recommend out of all of
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these? I honestly can't say. I think all of these
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are really worth hearing. And I will leave it
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to you to explore this vast treasure trove of
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recordings. This is Jed Disler, and you've been
35:41
listening to The Piano Maven, your friendly podcast
35:44
guide to piano recordings. Thank you so much
35:48
for tuning into this. podcast episode and I look
35:53
forward to being with you next time. Take good
35:56
care.