Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 413] Lynyrd Skynyrd: How Ronnie Van Zant Led Rock’s Most Defiant Band with Chris Salisbury

Transcript

[EP 413] Lynyrd Skynyrd: How Ronnie Van Zant Led Rock’s Most Defiant Band with Chris Salisbury · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Difficult not to when you hear those stories Ronnie's dad
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Lacey he said that he actually claimed Ronnie spent years
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: predicting his early death Lacey recalled that Ronnie'd tell him
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: you know he'll never get to 30 Lacey'd dismiss it
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Ronnie actually said that's my limit 87 days before his
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: 30th birthday is when he was killed but.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: We're totally booked rock and roll well I think I'll
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: leave you to your reading little hand says it's time
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: to rock.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And roll rock and roll we are totally booked.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to Booked on Rock, conversations with authors, musicians,
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: and insiders revealing the stories behind classic rock's greatest songs, albums,
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: and artists. Thank you to everybody supporting Booked on Rock
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: on Patreon. You can get the backstage pass and get
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: episodes in both audio and video commercial-free, along with early
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: access to new episodes. So if you'd like to grab
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: the backstage pass, it's just $ 5 a month. Click the
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: link in the show notes or go to BookedOnRock.com. Now
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: on to our guest, Chris Salisbury. He is the author
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: of Lynyrd Skynyrd, every album, every song. It's part of
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Sonic Bond's on-track series. Chris, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Eric, nice to meet you.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Nice to meet you and great to talk. Skynyrd, one
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: of my all-time favorite bands, and you describe them as
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: a band whose story really begins long before the first album.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: So let's start there. Talk about the early years in Jacksonville.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: How did the band come together?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: They began in Jacksonville, Florida. It was the summer of 1964.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: What actually happened, according to legend, it was through a
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: shared love of baseball and a bit of a chance encounter, really.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Rungy Van Zandt hit a line drive playing junior baseball
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: and it hit Bob Burns smack in the head, knocked
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: him out by all accounts. And despite that rough introduction,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: they bonded over sports and music. And Burns went on
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: to introduce Van Zandt to Gary Rossington and bassist Larry Drumstrom.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: The three of them had already been together playing as me,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you and him. A humorous name, I suppose. What happened then? Well,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: with the addition of Ronnie, they went on to practice
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: in Carport at Burns' house, playing songs like Time Is
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: On My Side by the Rolling Stones. Chemistry was immediate,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: but they realised that they were lacking something, so that's
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: when they decided to recruit Alan Collins. Now, legend has
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: it that when Ronnie went to see Alan, he ran
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: away because he had a bit of a rough reputation.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Stories vary, like a lot of things with Skinner, but
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: my favourite's the one where he climbed up a tree
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: and wouldn't come down because he thought he was going
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: to get beaten up. He's actually been offered the job.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So they cycled through early names in my backyard. The
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Noble Five, the 1%, all the time honing that Southern
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: rock sound. They got the first paid gig as the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Noble Five. That was a Christmas party in 1964, a
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: $ 10 fee. A bit of a limited set that they
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: had to play over several times, but still, they went
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: down pretty well. Following that, they secured a rehearsal space
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: at the Comic Book Club in Jacksonville. Now, there have
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: been a lot of talented bands through there, you know,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Parman Brothers, etc. Give them a real opportunity. Then it
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: would be 1968 they recorded for the first time, making
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: what became known as the Shade Tree recordings. Two songs
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: were released as the band's first single. It was a
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: limited promotional copy of 300 Pressings of Need All My
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Friends and Michelle. They returned to the studio to put
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: further songs, and in that period, that's when they changed
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the name to Leonard Skinner, although initially it was spelt differently.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And on those early pressings, it has the old spelling.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Then in 1969, that's when they permanently changed the name.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: And as you'll be aware, that was a mocking tribute
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to coach Leonard Skinner, who was their high school gym teacher.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Several major labels passed on Skinnered, even after hearing Freebird,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: which is hard to believe. But you look back at
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: those early recordings now, what do you think those executives
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: were missing?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I think you've got to look at it like this.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: There were two distinct label shopping campaigns before they signed
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Al Cooper. So first of all, you had the Quinby
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: recordings at Queen Ivy Studios in 1970. David Johnson produced
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the early demos, and he subsequently tried to secure a
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: deal for them. using those, but he was unsuccessful. At
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: that point, frankly, to my ears, they weren't ready. The
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: promise was clear, but the recordings, you can hear, they
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: were subsequently released as part of the Collectibles album. I
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: don't know whether you've technically listened to those, Eric. Well,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: is that the one?
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: I know the box set has what I think is
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: a really cool early version of Freebird. It's without the ending.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: So there's actually several versions of Freebird. You're thinking of
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: the the box set that they did. And no, they
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: did an album, at least an album collectibles that had, uh, earlier. Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I don't think I've heard, I've seen it and I,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I've seen it out there. I don't think I've heard it.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: So is the version of free bird on there different?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I can't actually recall which version of free bird is
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: on there, but what you do have is those, uh, the,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the shade tree and the, uh, Quinn Ivy recordings. So
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: picking that up, um, You know, that got no traction.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Alan Walden, well, he'd left Capricorn in 1970. And he
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: was looking to sign bands, you know, start his own production. Sorry,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: his own publishing and management company. One of his employees,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: a guy called Pat Armstrong, arranged for an audition at
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Lynyrd Skynyrd. And Walden came along and plagued him free bird. And,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you know, that was enough for him.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Sadly, by the way, Alan Walden just passed away.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I believe you've chatted to him, Eric.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, he was on the show when his book came
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: out and it was a great interview. Super nice guy.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: He's just a true gentleman. And he was already up
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: there in age and had a little bit of a
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: difficulty getting through the interview. But, you know, we got
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: through it and he had some amazing stories about Ronnie
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: in the band recording Sweet Home Alabama while he's fishing
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: on the water there outside of I think it was
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: outside of Hell House when they were putting together the song.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: And it was just, it was so cool to get
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: all those stories.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So the guys played it at the Hell House and
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: they sent him up the river in a fishing boat,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: if I remember rightly, and he could go over the water.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Ronnie's fishing boat. He said, here, you know, here's
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: some beers, go fishing and we'll get to work over here.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Must have been amazing to chat to him. I have
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: read his biography somewhere. Like I say, some good material
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: in there as well. Following that, it was Jimmy Johnson
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: at Muscle Shoals recorded about 17 songs with them. Walden
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and Johnson presented those recordings to a number of major
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: record labels and they were turned down. And you've got
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: to remember that, you know, Walden recorded Free Bird, Gimme
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Three Steps, Simple Man. You know, they were all on there.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: The band had been through some personal issues by that point,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: personnel issues. Larry Jumpstrom had been fired. They brought Greg
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Walker in from Blackfoot to re-record all the bass lines.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got Ricky Medlock on drums. What it
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: seems to have happened, though, is that, you know, despite
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: touting these two, Atlantic, Warner, Columbia, A & M, RCA, Epic,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Electra and Polydor. What seems to have happened is that
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: there was a winding error with the tape. Now, Ronnie
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Van Zandt allegedly was furious when he heard the quality
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of the recordings. A little bit later in time, I
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: think it was Kevin Elson working with Skinner, recognized what
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: the problem was, flipped the tape. And that's, in fact,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: how the swampers at Muscle Shoals came to be recalled
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: in Sweetland, Alabama. That was an apology from Ronnie. I
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: suppose with hindsight, you know, it does seem incomprehensible that
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: they would sign. At one point, it's reported that Walden
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: tried to get him signed with his brother. He didn't
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: like Ronnie. He said they sounded too much like the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Allman brothers. To me, they didn't even sound remotely like
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the Allman brothers. Charlie Brusco, who managed the Outlaws and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: later had a big part in the Skinner reunion, he
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: recalled it was a very difficult thing to get them assigned.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: He felt they were a country rock act. They weren't
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a country rock act. They were a three-guitar rock band
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: playing in the country fold. There wasn't anything like that around.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I think one of the big difficulties they are. So
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I think it was the style of music. And also,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I've got to say, that winding error on the tape
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: was going to be a big factor as well.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Well, ultimately, they do get signed, obviously, as we know,
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: and then you get pronounced Leonard Skinner. 1973, the debut
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: album reached number 27 on the Billboard 200, eventually went
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: double platinum with give me three steps and free bird
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: become two of the band's signature songs producer al cooper
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: described skinner as incredibly well rehearsed with even the guitar
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: solos worked out in advance how much of what we
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: hear unpronounced was essentially created before they ever entered the studio.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: That's what cooper said you know he also thought that
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: they were the best sun rangers that he'd ever worked
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: with um And he didn't need to offer a lot
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: of input on that, which was very unusual, especially for
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: young bands. So what Cooper did, he helped them with
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the studio craft and an understanding relationship between the bass
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and drums to make the songs really rock. He noted
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: that when any instruction was required, you know, he only
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: needed to tell the band once so that they were
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: keen learners. It would have been... 1973, 26th of March,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: prior to the recording of the album, Cooper took the
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: band in the studio to see what they had, and
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: they recorded a two-track demo live. Some of those actually
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: made it out to later releases, some of those tracks,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and are actually spot-on recorded live prior to the recording
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: of the album. So really, I think all the songs
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: were pretty much written, pretty much arranged. Possible exception, The
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Mississippi Kid. And a few of the embellishments that Al
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: himself added, like the organ intro to Freebird. But yeah,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: other than that, I think it was all fully written.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about Billy Powell now. He went from being
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: the band's roadie to a full member after Ronnie heard
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: his piano introduction to Freebird. What did he bring to
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: the music that Skinner didn't have before?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: He did have previous experience. He played with Donnie and
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Alice Marr. Like I said, he'd been a roadie for
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the band. Ronnie got to hear him play Freebird, and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: he was offered a place, but which was subject to then,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: had been able to afford to pay him. So there
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was a little gap before he did actually join. Billy,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: he was the only member of the band that had
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: any formal music training, and he was a really, really
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: gifted player. What that meant to start with, though, that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Cusby's classical training, he tended to overplay a bit. There's
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a great story in Al Cooper's biography, or he recalled
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: that he actually gaffer-taped Billy Powell's left hand to the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: piano stool to try and calm him down a bit
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: while they were recording. I think he really added to
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that honky-tonk sound for the band, you know. Having said that,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Three Bird Intro, almost a classical piece, and the same
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday's Gone. You know, his piano section in the
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: section of that really elevates that song. A couple of
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: other things that people have said. Ed King said that
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: they never really wrote with Billy, and that was partly
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: because of his classical training. You know, Ronnie recognized his potential,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: but said he was too technical. I mean, at the time,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Billy was listening to Yes and ELP. In fact, Ronnie
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: called him an educated fool. I think what the band,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Billy was the feel for that style of music. But,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you know, the rapid fire right hand that the man had,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: it straight from that classical training.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Cooper initially didn't want Simple Man on the album. Ronnie
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: essentially sent him away while the band recorded it anyway.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: What does that tell us about who ultimately had creative
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: control in Skinner? Because I've heard stories, Alan even talking
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: about it, where really Ronnie was in charge.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's no question Ronnie was the boss.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: You know, he did leave the musical arrangements to the
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: band and, you know, and he said he'd take care
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of the rest. Like I said, though, he was prepared
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: to listen and learn. There was one occasion recording the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: first album. The band were giving Cooper a bit of
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: a hard time. Ronnie told him to stop, listen. He said, well,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: in his opinion, the idea sucked, but he said that
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: he'll listen to everything that Al says, maybe 20 times,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: you know, one in 20 times he'll have a great idea.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: but have suffered the other 19 times because one of
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: those will make him, will make it better. So I think,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you know, he's the boss, but he was a sponge
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: at that stage. Indeed, throughout his career, really.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: The hearing story is also about him writing lyrics on
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: the spot.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: And never writing them down.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Never writing them down.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: Amazing.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he said that if you couldn't remember them, they
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: weren't worth remembering. Yes, that was his quote. Yeah, amazing, man.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Freebird, let's go back to that now, because that evolves
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: dramatically from Alan Collins' original chord progression. And even the
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: band members gave conflicting accounts of who came up with
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: that extended ending, that iconic ending. After sorting through those stories,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: what can we actually say about how that famous second
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: half was created?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Gary Rossington at one time claimed he was cheating out
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: of royalties, said that section was his idea. What he
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: actually said was, and it was in an interview he
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: gave to Classic Rock, I believe. He was claiming that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: one night they were playing at a club. Ronnie asked
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: him to play a bit longer because his voice was hurting.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: He needed a break. Gary said they played for two minutes,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: three minutes. Then two days later, his throat was sore again.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: They did the same thing, ended up jamming it out. Ronald,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, said that it was Alan's idea.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And then Bob Burns said, through his wife, actually said
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that it came about during the band practice at Larry
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Johnstrom's parents' house. I agree, it's a slow part. Larry
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: kept on playing and they all joined in. He claimed
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: it was something that was creative and spontaneous. Everybody liked it,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: so they kept it. So really, they're the three options,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: but I don't think we'll ever know.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: No, and then the publishing is strictly going to Alan
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Collins and Ronnie Van Zandt. Those are the song credits. 1974,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: they released Second Helping and that reached number 12, eventually
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: went double platinum. Leon Wilkerson returned on bass. That allowed
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Ed King to become the third guitarist. How important was
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: that change in creating that three guitar sound that became
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: such a defining part of Skinner?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I think it was very important. But Ed, believe it
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: or not, had already contributed some guitar. Did you know that?
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in the early days.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: There's so many interesting stories like that, like with Medlock.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: He's not technically, quote-unquote, an original member, but he was
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: there in the early days, playing drums.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so Ricky was brought in. He was
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the drummer.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Because Ed King was on bass, right, at one point?
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what happened with King was that he was
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: initially brought in on bass. Leon had left temporarily at
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that point. They'd brought Ed in. They'd met him years ago.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: But actually, even on the Pronounced album, Ed did play
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: some minor little pieces of guitar. He actually doubled the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: bass parts using his strap on things going on. There's
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit of picking of his behind Billy's piano
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: solo on Tuesday's Gone. Simple Man, he made some additions
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: on Simple Man as well. And mostly stuff you wouldn't notice,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: stuff you don't hear, but it fattens up the bass. When, well, again,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: stories vary about this one. It's usually considered that it
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: was Ronnie who wanted Leon back in. Alan claimed in
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: his autobiography, Alan Walden, he claimed that it was his
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: idea to bring Leon back and move out to guitar.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: You know, what did he bring? Well, I think his
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: writing is incredible. He was an absolute master of the
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: guitar fills. What's incredible as well is that all three
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: players could find that space. You know, they had three
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: distinct voices, guitar parts interlocked. You've got Rossington holding down
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the gritty blues-based rhythm on slide. You've got Alan, the fiery,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: fast stuff. Ed Kinn with that melodic, precise pop sensibility.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: You know, don't forget, Ed had already had a hit
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: with Strawberry Alarm Clock.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Incense and Peppermints.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: That's the one. That's the one.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, West Coast guy too. He's not from Florida, not
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: even from Jacksonville.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: No, and I think he found it at various times
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: difficult to fit in because of that felt a little
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: bit isolated. But when he came in, that new dynamic,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: it paid off, you know, instantly on second, on second helping.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: It pushed all those players up in the technical execution
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: as well. And I suppose live, you know, you know,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: had a big impact there. You could have one guitarist
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: holding on a heavy rhythm, second playing an Amelie line,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and the third could, you know, with the screaming solo.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So the number of the lot.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Talk about Sweet Home Alabama, how that came together, because
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: it came together pretty fast. In fact, remarkably fast and
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: became a number eight single. It's one of their iconic songs.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: How was it created and how did those different guitar
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: parts come together?
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: The song actually predated all of the others on the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: second album. It was recorded in June 73, studio on Boroughville, Georgia.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Ronnie liked it so much, he was keen
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to record it as soon as possible. And in fact,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: they actually tried to get it rushed through along to
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that first album. Allegedly the first song that Ed King
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: ever wrote with the band. I mean, that's incredible. My
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: own take is that the recognizable parts, you know, it's
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Ed King. He's responsible for those, you know, that signature riff.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: What had happened, Rossington had come up with the progression,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: you know, the DCG. And apparently he was playing it repeatedly.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: He'd been playing 15 minutes. Ed walked in and just
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: added that iconic riff. Now, Ed himself said that his
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: part wouldn't have come about without Gary. Although one time
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Gary did claim that that signature riff was his, but
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: he never played it. Seems unlikely. It's the part you
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: can hear in the background. Typical Skinner. It's not a
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: prominent part, but without it, you know, when cover bands
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: do it, they miss that out and it doesn't sound
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the same. And, you know, we've talked about Ronnie's talent
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: for the lyrics. You know, he just told them to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: keep playing it over and over. Within an hour, they
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: have the song. Wow.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Incredible.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's followed the band because of the debate
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: over what Ronnie was actually saying about Neil Young, George Wallace,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: and the South. Do you think its message is more
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: complicated than either its defenders or critics sometimes allow?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, again, that's a tricky one. You know, there's a
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: couple of other origin stories. I'll come to those later. uh, in,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: in a minute. You know, you'll learn more about George
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Wallace than me. Uh, segregationist, built his political career, uh,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: on fighting the civil rights movement, if I'm right. A
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: lot of critics accused Skinner of supporting racism and subrogation.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Walden himself claimed that, um, Ronnie was a Wallace man. Um, Ronnie,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Ronnie said he wasn't, um, you know, he said that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: line was completely misunderstood. Um, bandmates agreed with him. Um,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: What often gets ignored is that the band explicitly added
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the boo-boo-boo, showing the disapproval of Wallace. You know, Rossington,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: he said a lot of people believed in segregation and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: all that, and that they didn't. It was clear the
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: boo-boo-boo was there where they were saying they didn't like Wallace.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: In 1975, Ronnie himself went on record and said that
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: him and Wallace had very little in common. Didn't like
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: what they had to say about coloured people. I'm not lying,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: you know, we all did what we could do, not
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: to the fact that not everybody in the South believed
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: in Wallace. Cooper, Al Cooper, well, he interpreted the line as,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: you know, we tried to get what was out of it, really,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: against him. Bamsant's way of reminding outsiders that, you know,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: the actions of the government didn't reflect the morality of,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: you know, all the citizens living in the state. Um,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: then he switched to Watergate, um, you know, which was
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Nixon intentionally, uh, I think pointing the fingers back at the, uh,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: at the Northern critics. So I think his underlying message
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: was really that, uh, not everybody, uh, they're not judging
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the North saying everybody's corrupt. Um, so don't judge everybody
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: in the South, uh, in the same way. Um, you know,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: it is a defense, uh, to a degree as well, uh,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: against the, uh, some of the generalizations that artists like
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Neil Young had put in some of their work. And
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I did say there were other theories about the origin
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of the song. One I came across, Ed King hated
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: his guitar sound on that song, said it sounded like
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a banjo. And he actually thought that that inspired Squeak
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Home Alabama, as in we come from Alabama with a
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: banjo on our knee. Oh, yeah. One I'd never come
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: across until I read that. And also in his biography,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Alan Walden, perhaps he says it was inspired by a
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: girl that Ronnie was seeing up in Alabama at the
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: time or when the band were touring in Alabama. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: he backs that up. There's actually a picture of her
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: in his biography.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, is that the one Ed King
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: says it came to him in a dream?
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the solos came to him note for note in
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the dream.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Chris Salisbury is the author of Lynyrd Skynyrd, Every Album,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Every Song. Moving on to 1975's Nothing Fancy, which became
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Skynyrd's first top 10 album, reached number nine, eventually going platinum,
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: while Saturday Night Special reached number 27, and much of
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: the album had to be written and arranged almost on
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: the spot. Do you hear that pressure as a weakness,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: or did that urgency give the record some of its energy?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Another interesting situation, you know, if we look at the background,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Cooper recalled that the recording of the album was very
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: different to that of the first two. It was all
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: recorded in Atlanta with the exception of a Saturday Night Special,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: which had been recorded in Studio One, Doraville. They'd been
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: on the road for a long time and didn't have
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: time to prepare the material. They literally have no songs
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: on a window of a month, which is nothing really.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Al spent the first day working on the mic placements,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: called it a day at 11 o'clock at night, having
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: just about crapped it. When he came back the following day,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: all the microphones had been pulled back. You know, one
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of the engineers had taken it on himself, said he
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: could do a better job. That's a guy called Dave Evans.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Progress was slow, you know, and Al took Ronnie to
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: one side, told him they got two weeks to write,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: write and arrange the songs for the album. He was
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: going back to New York. And then following that, I'd
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: have two weeks to record them. Quick aside there, while
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I remember, the next time that Al Cooper actually saw, uh,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Dave Evans was at Ronnie Van Zandt's funeral, where he was,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: he was presiding minister. Unbelievable. Uh, Cooper returned. The band
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: had made cracking progress, really, but, uh, six songs written,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: two more required. They've spent 16 hours a day in
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the studio, um, You know, Cooper was pulling the plug
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: on that. The band would have carried on. Last two
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: songs written, Cheating Woman, Making the Shade. On that last day,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: last day recording, tour bus literally arrived, picked him up.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Cooper said his goodbyes. He started the mixing to do.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: That was the end of his work with the band. Now,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: he'd taken a little bit of a step back, which
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: gave him a bit more space to contribute. You know,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: opinions on the album vary. Some say it's got a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: lack of classic songs, a sign that the world was
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: running dry. Rolling Stone, though, I mean, they were uncharacteristically charitable.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Their quote said something along the lines of, it maintains
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the feel, somically and stylistically, of the band's first two albums.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You know, it went top 10 in the US, later
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: certified platinum, brought them international recognition, just missing out on
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the first top 40 placing album in the UK. Freedom
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Cooper allowed him to contribute to songs like Cheating Woman,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: songs like I'm a Losing, that had a great feel.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: One of my all-time favorite Skinner songs, yeah. That and
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: On the Hunt, those two.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent. King didn't like his solo on I'm a Losing.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: It's one of my favorites. Yeah. One of my favorite
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: King solo. He felt they just left it because it
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: was short of time. He recalled actually doing several takes
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: of many of the songs largely because they were written
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and arranged on the spot. It was a challenge recording
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: an album like that in 28 days. Personally, I think
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it's a great album. To answer your question, I think
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I rose to the occasion, and I think we got
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: away with it, but I think skin of the teeth.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Saturday Night Special, it's got that unusual 7-4 bar that
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Al Cooper recognized, even though the musicians themselves weren't necessarily
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: thinking in those terms, those theoretical terms. How much of
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Skinner's musical sophistication came from instinct rather than formal musical knowledge?
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Interesting story there. You know, um, Cooke recalled the boys
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: counting the song in and coming on beat two of
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the second bar, uh, at a count top instead of
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the first beat. So the pulse of the song, uh,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: was all wrong. But Cooper challenged, uh, Ed about that. Um,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: you know, Ed said, you know, it works out perfectly.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: It turned out because, um, There was a Phil later
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: in that brought it back in time. Pyle was playing
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: a 7-4 bar between the first two sections. At that point,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Ed King, and he was the most knowledgeable about music
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: in the band at that time, other than Billy, I suppose.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: He claimed you could only have four beats in a
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: bar and didn't know what Cooper was talking about. Cooper recalled,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you know, he loved those guys. He recognized that their
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: musical knowledge was limited. They're instinctive and brilliant. And I
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: think that's the key. That's the key with them. You
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: recognize they have a musical knowledge and maturity far beyond
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: their age, but it wasn't nothing formal. Willie was formally trained.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: You know, Ed certainly had very proficient, had more knowledge
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: than Rossington. I'm Collins, but still some gaping flaws in
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: his knowledge of theory there as well. Think of his solo.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: You mentioned the solos in Swoopham, Alabama. Ed claimed the
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: song was in G. Al Cooper insisted it was in D.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: That's something that Ed took to the grave with him.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: He was critical of Steve Gaines and Huey Thomason when
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: he came in playing the solo in the wrong key. So,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, despite the competence on the instruments,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you'd have to say they're very instinctive players and arrangers, absolutely.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and this would mark the end of Skinner's partnership
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: with Al Cooper. Had Cooper simply taken the band as
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: far as he could, or did Skinner lose something important
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: when they decided they no longer needed him?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Cooper recalled taking the band as far as he could
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: in that sense. Certainly there was beginning to be a
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: bit of animosity. Alan Collins had shared his perspective, claiming that,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: you know, Alan wanted to do a song in the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: style of Grand Funk Railroad, and Alan once said, too
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: polite with his comeback to that one. Ed King, he
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: was very positive about Cooper, even though he was asked
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: to remix some of his work. He went as far
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: as saying that, you know, had it not been for Al,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: nobody would have heard of Skinner, and that Cooper was
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: a visionary behind the band and how the band would
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: be presented to the world. He recognised that they didn't
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: always agree with Art, but he enjoyed his presence. So
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I think Cooper's approach was one that gave him a
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: result very different to that of Tom Dowd, who took
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: over the production for the next album.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Give Me Back My Bullets.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the time without, you know, they learned a lot.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I think he was pivotal, but I think it was
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: time to go.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Give Me Back My Bullets released in 76, number
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: 20 on Billboard. Double Trouble stalled at number 80. The
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: title track failed to chart. After the top 10 success
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: of Nothing Fancy, why do you think this album struggled
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: commercially despite containing songs that have aged very well.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Well, to begin with, Tom Dowd, he didn't find it
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: easy working with the band. You know, he's a man,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: very rigid, tight studio discipline. His discipline wasn't always appreciated,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: for one thing. After that, the fact that his recording
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: time was pretty limited. Needed to fit it in between
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: tour dates in September and October. Recording Time was limited,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: like I say. I mean, Ronnie gave Dowd a lot
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: of praise at the time, thinking he was a bit
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of a genius. Record had initial success, like I say.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Cooper on the other hand, though, he hated it. He
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: reckoned he would have thrown out after the track's out.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Critic for Rolling Stones at the time. He felt the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: material was weak. Performance is uninspired. described Skinner as a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: band in limbo. It's a difficult one, because with hindsight,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of people really do like that album, really
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: do like the songs. You know, we've got the absence
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: of Ed King. He quit the band in the Nothing
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Fancy Tour. So they didn't replace him, so it's Gary
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Rossington and Collins, you know, as a two-guitar duo. I
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: think we missed some of King's input, some of King's fills.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Missed that wall of sound. Dowd had cleaned up the mix.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Didn't have that swampy, distorted grip that we'd come to expect, really.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: He went for a different sound later on. He said
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: he felt it didn't work. Felt the materials good, which
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: made them too refined.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Well, it's got Gimme Back My Bullets. I got the
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: same old blues. Double Trouble. Roll Gypsy Rose, another great one. Searching.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: all I can do is write about it. Solid.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: That's an album I love. Yeah. I think one other
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: issue they had as well was, um, you know, give
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: me back my bullets, uh, initially went into the life
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: set and it's something they have to drop because the
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: crowd took it literally. And we're throwing live ammunition at
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the band on stage. So for their own safety, they
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: had to drop that one.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: And the song was about essentially Ronnie saying, uh, looking
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: to get back up to the top of the charts,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: like the phrase number one with a bullet, that type
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: of thing.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. The fast rising songs have bullets on the,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: on the billboard charts. So yeah, that's what he actually
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: referring to.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: And then we get street survivors, 1977 became Skinner's highest
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: charting studio album to that point, reach number five. What's
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: your name? Reach number 13. sadly released just three days
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: before the plane crash that killed Ronnie Van Zandt, Steve Gaines,
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Cassie Gaines, and assistant road manager Dean Kilpatrick. Steve had
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: completely re-energized the band before the tragedy. What did he
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: bring creatively that Skinner had been missing since Ed King left?
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, Gaines, there's a man, you know, his talent
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: was immense. Fantastic guitar player, but also a superb singer.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I think Rossington and Collins have become a little bit complacent,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and I think pretty quickly they are taught their game.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you take a listen, for example, the
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: guitar arrangements in That Smell, it's an absolute masterpiece if
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: you break it down. You know, Collins and Gaines trading
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: with each other. Unbelievable stuff. Equally, though, I think that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the band really brought out the best in games, which
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: is something that's sometimes forgotten. I think it's just a
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: fantastic match. Super player. Brought that fire back in and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: rekindled Rossington and Collins, definitely.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: One more time, maybe the most underrated Skinner song, in
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: my opinion.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did read somewhere. Somebody said that if it
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: was released now, it could hit number one on the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: country charts.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Pretty son. Yeah, sure.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: They initially recorded at Criteria Studios in Miami with Tom Dowd,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: but became unhappy with the sound. They moved the project
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: to Doraville outside Atlanta, recut several tracks. There are conflicting
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: accounts of how Dowd became separated from the project. What happened?
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Well, they'd booked time into Criteria Studios in Miami. And
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: like you say, they weren't happy with the sound of
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: those recordings. Kevin Elson, he nearly came to blows with Ronnie.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: You know, he really didn't like the recording at all.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't until Steve Gaines stepped in and said
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: he agreed. And he supported Convince Ronnie. So Elson jumped
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: on a plane to Atlanta with a copy of the
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: multi-track recordings that they'd made at that point. Took them
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: to Rodney Mills. He tried to remix. And Elson took
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: that back. At that point, they relocated to Doraville, continued
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: to work on the album, recut quite a number of
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the tracks. The originals were actually recut. released a few
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: years back on a special edition of the Street Survivors album.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: This is Ready Count Stifter. So Mills recalled Ronnie explaining
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to Dowd that they appreciated everything he'd done. The album
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: was so important and they wanted other input. And Dowd
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: walked out. Dowd, on the other hand, he recalled that
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: he did follow the band to Dorobelt. Time was tight.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: He was getting married and he was trying to produce
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Skinner and Rod Stewart at the same time. He made
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the claim that Leon was incapacitated by an accidental drug
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: exposure at that point that caused production to stop. And
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: then he reckons he wasn't told when they started up again.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: They recommenced the album and finished it without him. And
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: he only became aware when the album was being mixed
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: at Capitol. But I can't believe that's true, though, because
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Dowd had sent engineer, it was Barry Rudolph, he'd sent
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: him as his representative for the recording process. It's not
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: clear at all. Dowd was ultimately too busy with Rod
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Stewart to join, and the mixing was completed in Georgia.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Dowd didn't get a credit on the first printing. Allegedly,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: at the time of the plane crash, it's said that
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the band had instructed MCA to include his name on
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: the reprint. Again, nothing's clear with these boys.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: And the plane crash changes everything.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: The Leonard Skinner band was riding high. They had just
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: released a new album, Street Survivors, and set out on
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: a five-month cross-country tour to promote it. They were on
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: their way to a concert at Louisiana State University when
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: disaster happened.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: All I saw was treetops. I looked out my window.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: I was in the middle of the airplane on the
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: right wing. I tried to get close to the back
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: of the airplane as possible. I got in the middle
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: of the airplane on the right wing and all I
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: saw was treetops. And at first it wasn't so bad,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: but then when it hit the middle of the trees.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: It was horrible.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: It's an experience nobody wants to ever experience. Never.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Will there be a Leonard Skinner after this?
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: I don't think so.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: Songs like That Smell. deal openly with death and self-destruction.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: And You Got That Right contains lines about not growing old.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's almost impossible to hear them now without
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: thinking about what happened days after the release of the album.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: I remember Ronnie's dad saying he told him that he
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: wasn't going to live to see 30. Ronnie was 29
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: when he died. Do you believe in that kind of thing?
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Did Ronnie inherently know his time here was limited?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: It's not something that I personally believe in, but it's
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: difficult not to when you hear those stories. You know, Lacey,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Ronnie's dad, Lacey, he said that he actually claimed Ronnie
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: had second sight. You know, he'd spent years predicting his
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: early death, I'd say. Lacey recalled that Ronnie would tell him,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you know, he'll never get to 30. Lacey would dismiss it.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: And Ronnie actually said, that's my limit. 87 days before
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: his 30th birthday is when he was killed. Juby Van Zandt,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: his widow, she noted, you know, when she heard the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: news of the plane crash, she reckoned she immediately knew
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Ronnie hadn't survived because of the predictions that he made.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: You listen to some of those lyrics now, it's difficult,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: isn't it? You know, Um, when my time's up, I'll
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: hold my own. You won't find me an old folks home.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: You know, it's painful.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And the, the crazy story too, is that he
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: didn't have a scratch on him.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: That was the thing. He was catapulted out of his
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: seat through the window and his head hit the tree
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: and he was gone immediately. He broke his neck, I believe.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: And that was it.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, Again, there are a couple of different tellings.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: You know, Gene Obam's story is very different from some
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: of the other members. There was certainly, understandably, a lot
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: of confusion following that. I mean, Artemis made a film,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: didn't he? Oh, he wrote a book and got a
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: film out that the band didn't endorse. They didn't agree
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: with his story. But yeah, yeah. Allegedly not a mark
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: on him. Other people have said he was decapitated. Dreadful. Dreadful.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Absolutely dreadful. You know, the irony that he wrote that
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: smell as a warning to the other band members in
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the past was nothing related to drugs or drink. Like
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: someone was trying to say. Shocking.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like you say, it's Even if you don't believe
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: in that type of thing, you can't not have it
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: into your thoughts as you're listening to those songs. And
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: then it leads to the what-if questions. What if that
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: never happened? What becomes of Skinner with that original lineup
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: or at least that classic lineup, we should say, because
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: there were a lot of changes early on. Skinner's first
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: and last, 1978. For years, it seemed the band's story
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: really had ended. But then in 1987, the surviving members
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: reunited with Ronnie's younger brother, Johnny, on lead vocals. How
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: did that reunion come about? And when did a tribute
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: tour turn into something that Lynyrd Skynyrd was going to
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: become an active band again?
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: This is one that's easier to be factual about, although
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: it's not without a bit of controversy. So Billy was
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: the first to return to music. He actually guested with
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: 38 Special. Billy and Artemis collaborated together with a guy
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: called Leon LeBron. Leslie Hawkins joined Wet Willie. Billy, Leon, Artemis, Jojo,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and Barry Harwood briefly worked together with a band called Alias.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, that contained Jimmy Doherty on vocals and Billy's
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: brother Ricky playing bass. You said, what would have happened
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: had Ronnie survived? It's reported that Doherty, according to several witnesses,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: was actually offered the job to sing for Skinner and
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: that Ronnie wanted to step aside and focus on writing
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: and management. Wow. A couple of witnesses have given credence
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: to that. Their sole album, Contraband, that was released in 1979.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: It took a bit longer for Gary and Alan to
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: come back, having no wish to cash in on the
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Lynyrd Skynyrd name. they had an early involvement in Alias,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: but walked away. At one point, Gary mentioned there was
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: some talks about him playing with Alan Collins, Don Nix
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: and Greg Almond, but that was something that didn't happen. 79,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Rossington Collins Band was formed, including Powell and Wilson. Barry
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Lee Howard, Tyler agreed to join, but he had a
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: motorcycle accident, so his spot was taken with Derek Hess.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: They brought in Dale Krantz, Sink, Obviously, it could be
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: no comparison with Ronnie, a female country band. They recorded
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a couple of albums. First one, Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere, released
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: in 1980. Shortly after the release of that album, Alan's wife, Kathy,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: suffered a massive hemorrhage, died in the cinema in front
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: of the children, which is absolutely shocking. Alan never recovered.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: He withdrew a lot and turned to alcohol. Rossington Collins
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Band did a second album dedicated to his wife, but
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: that got little acclaim. Artemis has claimed that both Collins
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: and Rossington were both involved in a relationship with Rudell Krantz.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Whatever the situation was, the two guys found it difficult
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: to work together. Rossington married Krantz, and after a couple
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: of years, they took a break. Alan formed the Alan
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Collins Band, Wilkerson, Powell, Doherty Hess, Randall Hall, uh, Barry
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Lee Harwood. Uh, they came in, they did one album here, there,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: and back. Uh, and then that got dropped by MCA.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Alan continued to deteriorate, um, some attempts to keep that
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: band going. In 84, he crashed his car, killing his girlfriend. Uh,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: and that's where he became paralyzed. Truly tragic story. Oh man.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Plead guilty to, uh, drunk under the influence, manslaughter. At
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: that point, it's actually claimed by Larkin Collins that Alan
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: and Artemis were planning on coming back as Lynyrd Skynyrd too.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: And there is actually a logo that I've seen and
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I've heard what's supposed to be a demo tape of
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: a session for that. I can't give any credence to that.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Either way, it didn't happen. Pyle formed Artemis Pyle Band.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Did a couple of albums. Rossington and Krantz returned. We
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: returned to the scene at the crime. So Billy and Leon,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: they'd recorded with a Christian band. People were calling out
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: for Skinner. According to Gene Ogun, he reckoned that Billy
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: and Leon were pretty broke at that point. And that's
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: when they approached Rossington, who was not keen on the
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: idea of a reunion at all. But Charlie Brusco, who
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: was managing Billy Powell, managed to convince Rossington. Eventually, they
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: came together. Gannett, Charlie Daniels, annual volunteer jam in 1987.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Johnny came in on vocals. They agreed to play a
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: six-week tribute tour. Johnny himself, he'd actually released No More
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Dirty Deals, where Al Cooper actually produced that one. produced
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: he did an album called Round Two produced by Kevin
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Elson and the last of the wild ones diminishing returns
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: all the way though he actually quit to become a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: truck driver following in his father's footsteps so he then
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: came back did some work with John Kolodner for the
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: album Van Zant I believe but soon after he signed
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: for Atlantic he put his career on hold for Stinnard's
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Tempered Tour King had agreed to come in Alan Collins
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: obviously couldn't, but he selected his replacement, which was Randall Hall.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Pire came back. Basically, the tribute tour was so successful
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: that we decided to continue. Now, this wasn't something that
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: sat well with Juby Van Zandt and Teresa Gaines. Allegedly,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: there's a previously signed agreement, but they did not use
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: a standard name. It was Gene Oven, I believe. managed
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to prove that that was the case because he was
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: there at the time I can't remember the story behind
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: that one actually Odom also claimed that Rossington attempted a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: hostile takeover and tried to extend the tour without Judy
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: but because of that proof nothing happened another brutal quote
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: from Odom at that time was that the Rossington album
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: was a flop And he said that Johnny Van Zandt
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: couldn't draw flies at a manured singing contest, which he
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: felt was the reason that they went to carry on.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: You know, sadly, Alan succumbed to pneumonia in 1990. He
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: was just 38. Johnny released Brickyard Rogue in 1990. Ultimately,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: the band decided to continue and record new music. I
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: think it was just that popularity. The fans wanted to
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: hear it. Sure.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to this day. In the album titled 1991, that
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: starts the Johnny Van Zandt era with... has produced nine
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: studio albums right through last of a dying breed in 2012.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: And there was always going to be debate over whether
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: a band without Ronnie could really be Leonard Skinner. After
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: listening closely to that whole body of work, as you
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: wrote this book, where do you come down on that question?
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Where do you stand? with the current version of Skinnered?
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Well, from a personal standpoint, you know, I really enjoy
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: the music from both areas. I understand some people, you know,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: they don't, or they won't give it a chance. They
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: don't think the band should use the name. You know,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: the band themselves say that ultimately they're paying tribute to
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: the band's legacy. The shows are very respectful of that legacy.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: And if you've seen Skinnered in recent years, you know,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: the shows, People know who they truly are. They're doing
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: exactly that. Lots of people argue that, you know, the
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: band ended in 77. You know, people say Ronnie wasn't
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: just a singer. He was the, you know, the lyricist,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: indisputably boss, without his unique perspective and grit. A lot
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: of people felt the later albums lacked that dangerous edge
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: and some of the nuance of the earlier records. And then,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you know, over the decades, members have passed, you know,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: increasingly they've brought new musicians in. So the critics feel
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: it's become a brand name, high-level tribute band, rather than
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: the continuation of that, you know, that original band. On
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: the flip side, you know, I mean, there's a couple
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: of things to consider. For a start, you know, it's
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: been said Ronnie was going to give up some... Ronnie
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: was going to bring in Johnny, who's one of the
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: stories as well. He reckoned Johnny had a better voice. Supporters, well,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: they're going to argue that Johnny's earned the right, you know,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: to carry the name. To carry his decades of hard
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: work and, you know, his bloodline. He didn't try and
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: copy his brother. Brought his own voice to it, certainly.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Maintained the family heritage. I think Ariana Van Zandt you know,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: at the helm, that's in the music authenticity.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: They have some great moments too, like Red, White and
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Blue was probably their biggest hit during the Johnny era.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: It was early 2000s.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Great songs, some great albums. You know, God
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: and Guns, Last Rebel, Vicious Cycle, Last of a Dying Breed,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: you know, they all keep the traditional elements aligned. Then
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: you've got the return of Ricky on the controversy about that.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: We mentioned it earlier. He recorded in the band with
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: the studio. They recorded his compositions. There's even an old
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: boot like Ronnie singing one of Ricky's songs. You've got
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: to see him as part of the band back in
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: those early days. Although lots of people don't. Yeah, for me,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think they pretend to be anything they're not.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: They don't pretend to be the original lineup that I
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: attribute to it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: And as long as there's demand for it, people still
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: go out and see the band.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a thing. You know, there's people you will
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: never convince. I'm on some of the Skinhead forums. The
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: same names pop up all the time over Critical. You know,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: you haven't been seeing them with Skinhead. All the professional
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: musicians are happy to guest with them, have them guest
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: with them. They recognize them. The collaborations that they've done
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: with other artists proved a point.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: For those people, for those who love the 70s records
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: in that era, who have largely ignored the Johnny era,
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: which one album In which five songs would you recommend
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: to convince them that the later Skinner deserves to be heard?
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: That is a difficult question because there are some people
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: who will not be convinced. And if you ask me
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: this on a different day, I'd probably pick a different
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: album and different songs. You put me on the spot.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to go for album 20 in 1997.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: It's that nursery of the plane crash. For songs... let's
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: go with, uh, end of the road from 1991. Okay.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: You know, you listen to the lyrics in the cellar
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: of counseling to find the end.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: Of the road.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Free boy, free bird keeps on flying and it'll never
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: come down. All those sorts of messages in there. It almost,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: almost explains why they carry on and why they did
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: carry on. My mother's still playing. That was dead. So
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I'd go for that one. Um, Yeah, stick with Ed
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: King era again. I'd go for The Last Rebel from
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: The Last Rebel. Real atmospheric song. Ed was really happy
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: with his own playing on that one. I can't remember
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: how to describe it. What did he say? Yes, he
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: said he wanted it played at his funeral. At his work. Yeah.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: really eerie, really eerie. That's like, so, uh, third up,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: something a little bit more obscure. I'm going to go with, uh,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: devil in the bottle. I'm on danger species. Oh, wow. Okay.
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Um, song about battling, uh, you know, alcoholism. It's, uh,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: it was partially bought to buy out, bought to buy
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: biographical on behalf of Johnny. Um, originally didn't have a chorus. Um,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Mike Estes, who was working with the band at that time,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: he was brought in. He co-wrote that. He added the chorus.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Mike was a great help to me when I was
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: producing the book, actually, because there's not a lot known
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: about this era of the band. And I became quite
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: part of it with Mike, and he was able to
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: help me out a lot on that and some of
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the other obscure songs that I discovered at the last minute,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: like a song for the NASCAR album. a white knuckle ride, uh, Copen, uh,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: would might. So yeah, he was, he was a great help.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: The devil in the bottle. I like that really stripped back, uh,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: great song. Can't pick that as an album because, uh,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: it was mostly, uh, old skinned songs that were re-recorded acoustically. Okay.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I picked 20 as an album. So a song from 20, uh,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: bring it on. It's, um, quite straightforward lyrically, but, uh, Yeah,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: it comes with the old Skinner, I think that one.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: There's some echoes of Blackfoot on there. You know, you
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: can hear that Ricky's in there, uses one of his
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: old lyric lines. What was it? She can shake the
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: sheets to the rock and roll beats, an old Blackfoot lyric. Yeah,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: it's a great barroom boogie. Fantastic. And I think that
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: cements that three guitar army making another statement of intent
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: more so than 1991 and the last rebel did. Okay.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: That'll be that choice. Uh, but I'm going to go
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: for God and guns. Um, maybe a contentious choice. Uh,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: for a start, it was written by outside writers. Uh, although, uh,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: you know, what they presented to the band was, uh,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Nothing like what the band turned it into. I just
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: think it's a great song. Great song, Garden Ones. Okay.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Not without being controversial in some circles. I mean, Johnny
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: ended up trying to defend the message. Everybody's saying that
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Ronnie didn't agree on guns because of the 38th Saturday
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Night Special. In actual fact, Ronnie gave his wife a pistol.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: There's one instance where in the old days back in
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: the hell hole, he wanted Bob Burns to play a song.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Burns wouldn't play it. So Ronnie held a gun at
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: his head and told him to, you know, the man wasn't,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: the man wasn't anti-gun.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: I would pick vicious cycle as my personal favorite from
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: the Johnny era. That's how I like it. Red, white,
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: and blue, but also maybe my favorite deep track life's lessons.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Great song.
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: And, you know, it's a little bit of an updated sound.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: It's got a bit of like a drum loop to
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: it kind of thing, but it's got a cool feel
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: to it.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. Great. Absolutely great song. Co-written, aren't they? Medlock, Peturi,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Huey Thomason. Yeah, Thomason got a writing credit on that,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: although he'd already passed away before that album came out,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: So after you went through every album and every song
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: for the book, what do you think is the one
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: quality that ultimately defines Lynyrd Skynyrd and why this music
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: has endured for over 50 years?
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Great songwriting, great musicianship, no pretension, but you want one thing,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I'll go for go for the band's defiance, the triple
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: guitar attack, uh, the band name mocking the high school teacher, uh,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Ronnie singing those, uh, you know, raw blue color words, uh,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: rejecting the, uh, you know, the slip mainstream polish, um,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: that proud regional storytelling that he brought to the fold.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, following the plane crash, that same
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: stubborn resilience that keeps the music alive. So yeah, Defiance,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I reckon.
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: And the music has stood the test of time. Lynyrd Skynyrd,
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: every album, every song. It also covers the live albums,
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: the compilations. It's all in there. It's out now. I
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: find it wherever books are sold. Look for it at
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: your nearest bookstore. You may find one there, but you
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: can always go to Amazon.com. You can go to BurningShed.com
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: if you live in the UK. Chris Salisbury, thank you
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: so much for coming on the show. Talking Lynyrd Skynyrd.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Eric. My pleasure.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: It's in the books.