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Discover How Novi Connect is Transforming Beauty with Ingredient Transparency · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host Etta.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to cover this today because we're gonna be discussing a topic that I think is very near and dear to many people's hearts, especially if you love, you know, skincare, you love diving into skincare's like science and understanding sustainability around it and the ingredients behind, you know, your most beloved products, all of that kind of stuff.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you love that, you're gonna love this episode.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the co-founder and head of chemistry and sustainability at Novi Connect, Yashi Shusta.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Yashi.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to chat with you today.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Isaac.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm really excited for our conversation because, you know, rarely do I get to dive into this topic, which is kind of what, you know, I was saying in the intro, where, you know, people want to understand ingredients, right?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they want to understand the whole sustainability conversation, but we don't really get to really look behind the scenes when it comes to this stuff.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to dive into that later, Yashi.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if you could get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what got you involved, you know, in the industry and, you know, the creation of Novi Connect.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So my journey actually began in Kachmandu, Nepal.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I was born and raised.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I came to the US for college.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I majored in chemistry with focus on environmental science.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually did my research on total antioxidant capacity of skincare products, which really was the reason I I sparked that sparked that interest in beauty in the BD industry.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: However, it was this environmental policy class that I took that really opened my eyes to how outdated the federal regulations were in the chemical industry, especially in the BD and personal care space.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Laws that had not been updated in 80 years, reforms that have not been taken place with so many new chemicals entering our markets.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I really started becoming obsessed with understanding the chemicals, you know, any of the ones that we interact with daily and how that impacts our human health, the environment.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so after college, I actually started working in a lab, formulating products, reformulating existing ones to make them more sustainable by using more greener chemicals, safer ingredient alternatives.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And while I found that innovation exciting, the idea of creating products, bringing that to life, I really was drawn to that research side of things, see how green chemistry principles could be applied to product development.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that blend of science and sustainability was really what fueled my passion.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so eventually I joined a clean beauty brand that was pioneering in the space.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was a perfect fit.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to work in a mission-driven company.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I got to do a lot of meaningful work in the space, in the sustainability space, and pushing the industry towards greater sustainability there.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was really, yeah, it was incredibly, incredibly fulfilling.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I also experienced firsthand the lack of transparency and data gaps within the industry.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just recognizing how much of a black box there was.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that realization was really pivotal for me to want to be part of that solution and, you know, think about how we can help bring that access to data so that we can make informed choices as both brands, consumers.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And really that was what led to the launch and creation of Novi.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I think that's such an interesting topic, though, is this idea of green chemistry, you know, and understanding it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, we, as you know, you know, there's a lot of, I think, there's a lot of gray space around this, even now.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even though as brands are becoming more forward with what they're doing and why they're doing things in a more cleaner way in a more, you know, just eco-friendly way, there's still a lot of misunderstanding, or rather, I guess, no information for consumers, you know, for us to understand what does this mean?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: How does this integrate into the choices we make on a day daily basis, you know, when it comes to buying products or, you know, voting with our dollars there?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, with that, I want to actually ask you, you know, you have this science background.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know you know the business and the science.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I just to get your opinion on it, you know, how does all of this tie into what you're doing at Novi?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: How does it tie into ingredient transparency, you know, and what does that really mean?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is such a gray area still, and believe it or not, seems like such a new concept, even though it's been around for decades, right?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So sustainability, you know, it's not really just about swapping out ingredients, it's really about having this holistic approach of evaluating the entire life cycle of a product, everything from responsibly sourcing raw materials to minimizing the environmental impact at the end of life.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And transparency and data accessibility are crucial for driving that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Without comprehensive data, it's impossible to make informed decisions and really understand the impact of a product.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so that access to clear, actionable information is what we are working on providing at Novi, empowering brands and consumers alike to choose products that align with their values.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: We recognize sustainability touches multiple dimensions.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I mentioned, from human health and environmental safety to ethical sourcing, waste reduction, fostering fair, equitable communities and societies.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so this holistic view is really central to how we've built Novi, you know, prioritizing progress of a perfection and recognizing that each brand and each consumer are at different stages in their sustainability journey.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And really, Novi's goal is being able to support through data, through information on making those, not only just those continuous improvements, but empower conscious purchasing decisions by transparency and fully disclosing information to help consumers at the end navigate this complex world where, you know, there's just so much confusion that exists.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it is really confusing because I'll give you an example.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of us have heard the conversation around like parabens, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And like various kinds of preservatives that are used in many formulations.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been a lot of fear mongering, you know, in our industry where people are just either completely scared of them and they just don't want them at all in their formulations, or they're like on the other side where they're like, well, I don't really care, you know, and it as long as it's preserving my products or or whatever their argument is.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it's for me, when I look at it, it comes down to, well, no, I think it shouldn't be this like, you know, a polarized viewpoint.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: It should more be more about understanding what these ingredients really do, you know, like what is their role in a formula.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess my question for you is like, how can we move, you know, what do you think we should be doing to move away from this idea of like, you know, free of or without this ingredient, or you know, just consumers instead of looking at that, like, how can we have a more educated viewpoint when we're looking at formulations and what we're buying and making sure that the decision we're making isn't just based on like, yeah, these like fear-mongering claims that are pretty much everywhere these days.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And education and information is critical to that, right?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you mentioned, we've industry has really lived in this concept of made without lists or formulated without for a number of years.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think we're seeing that shift away from not just what is not included in the formulas to what is.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where I think we're in that cusp of moving towards transparency by trying to understand what actually is in a product and how is it made.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're seeing consumers start to be more eager to understand that full story behind the ingredients, you know, around the packaging decisions as well, and recognizing that ingredient disclosure is just not enough anymore.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the baseline, knowing what's in it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: But now the next goal is really empowering consumers with the information they need to make those conscious, informed decisions.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, not just saying this is made without paraben or made without specific harmful ingredients.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's also let's talk about what is an alternative that's been used and what makes it better, safer, more sustainable, and move towards that education so that consumers, when they are looking at a product label, they're not having to understand, I don't even know what this means when you say it's not formulated with that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do care is I value that this is, it's not gonna have a negative impact on the environment, for example.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we see this with a lot of labels these days.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: For some, you know, we've seen vegan claims being really popular.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding the product is made without ingredients that has that does not have any animal byproducts could be important to someone, and maybe not to someone else, because that's not their lifestyle or that's not what they care about.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: But at the core of it, it's how do we make sure we make it super clear to the end consumer that when you are choosing to use specific ingredients, what does that mean?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: What is that, what is the value that you can get from leveraging these labels or just you know, the choice that they've made as a brand.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I think it's it's interesting because with ingredients, there's so it's so hard to achieve transparency, I feel like.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know that you guys work very closely here, you know, in this in this area, but I think for the general consumer, I mean for me, I'm always wondering, like, okay, this has XYZ ingredient.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where this came from, you know.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's always my question is like, well, okay, you're using hyaluronic acid, for example.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's use that, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, where did you where did you get this?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what lab made this hyaluronic acid and where did you derive this from?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you know that what the molecular weight is?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did you measure it?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Did you like all these questions for me come up with every ingredient?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's for everything across the board.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I guess, you know, where where can we start with our homework, you know, as consumers when it comes to that?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like understanding where something is truly coming from, like that aspect.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's a great question.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I personally believe we put too much burden on the consumer today, right?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of it shouldn't be on the consumer to have to do the research, have to understand, look at an ingredient list.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: My phone is filled with screenshots shots of my friends, family members sending me the back of the label saying, Hey, what do you think about this?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that is we're failing as an industry if that is what we're expecting consumers to do.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so with that, I do think there are other ways to give that assurance to consumers.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think a lot is around product claims and different, you know, when you when a specific, let's say, claim is made on a product label, making sure the standardization around what it takes to make that claim.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this goes into, you know, proof points.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like you mentioned, having putting the onus on the brand to say, I'm going down my supply chain to make sure that I have that information from my supplier, from my raw material manufacturer to understand the source of the ingredient, the feedstock, perhaps, and maybe even how it's manufactured.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of the day, when I put a claim on my label, that's all the consumer needs to know is it's credible, it's uh verified, and then it's, you know, it's there's information to substantiate it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's, I think, where I'd love for the industry to move towards.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: We are today working with, you know, multiple retailers in the US, like Sephora, Alta, Credo, and they have started to come up with their own policies and programs that they've defined in terms of what it means when you see that label.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're doing is ensuring that every brand that has that label in their in the final product has data substantiated.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of the day, it's not so much for the brand to understand and have to read through ingredient label, but look at a seal that's trusted, know that it's been verified by a third party, and feel that assurance when they're buying that it does meet their value.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's really important.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're doing that because honestly, like at the end of the day, it's it comes down to just like, I mean, consumers don't have time either, you know, to do that much homework.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we when we buy a brand, we're not only buying something, but you know, we're voting for that brand.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're, you know, amplifying that brand and we're saying, like, this is something I stand behind.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that really for businesses, it should go a long way, you know, to see that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it should mean more, you know what I mean, than it does.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, when a consumer picks up a product, your product on a shelf, right?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they go and they actually purchase it, they're putting your trust their trust in you, you know, and they they're trusting you.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and that trust should mean a lot, you know, it should be it should be validated.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm a huge believer in in what you guys are doing and what you're putting, the message you're putting out there, because I think brands do need to take that extra step.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're if somebody's listening in, you're a co-founder or you're a founder of a brand, I really urge you to do that because if you don't have some sort of validity behind what you're selling, at the end of the day, there it's gonna be hard, especially in the market we're in now.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't feel like brands could survive without providing proof at this point, you know.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you doing what you're doing?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And what does it it does it actually make sense?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like is there is there value behind saying, Well, I have this amazing ingredient, you know, that we discovered.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's great, but like, what does it do?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does this ingredient actually do?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And where do you get it from?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that those kind of answers should just be there for consumers.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm I'm a huge believer in that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: That trust is so important.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: The you know, that customer trust and loyalty could really break or make a business, you know, especially in our industry.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and I also do want to empathize with the brands.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I recognize that it is rather overwhelming industry to navigate, especially because we haven't really harmonized and standardized what different claims mean or what is the right way to approach a specific thing.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do, I do empathize on in making sure we provide brands with resources.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it's that, to your point, it's that willingness and understanding of saying, I am not just going to take my manufacturer's word or whatever, you know, cross my fingers and hope the right things are, you know, right processes are being followed.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: But taking that accountability to say I it's my it's you know, it's a decision of mine to go make sure I go down the supply chain, figure out that I am truthful with any claim, anything I'm sharing with my consumer, and feel good about that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I completely agree.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, one of the biggest questions I think I have is, you know, really, what do you think is necessary for developing true product standards that are like, you know, they're set at a high bar, you know, in terms of like this is the bar that's there now, you know, given all this information that we do have.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we get brands to adhere to this?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you what are your thoughts on that?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think I do want to think that it is value-based, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it may be different in terms of what one brand's ethos or what their priority is over the other.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: But at the core of it, when developing a standard, it's both understanding why that is important to you and then informing your consumer around how you are adhering to those.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it should be a holistic approach.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like I mentioned earlier, with a lot of brands or just the industry has, for lack of better word, been lazy with just going towards what is it not formulated without.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these chemicals no one ever even uses anymore, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's not enough at this point.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's more around having an ingredient selection process that's in-house that you are ensuring it meets your specific requirement.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it'll be trade-offs around pricing and lead times and availability, but committing to that is important and educating and bringing your consumers along those lines at the same time.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Also not being vague around what exactly is your product standard and really defining when you say a specific requirement uh exists for your policy, does that mean you're okay with seeing a document and a letterhead as a proof point, or would you want to see a testing analytical report?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it around seeing a third-party certification?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, creating standards that are really we could that can be substantiated, I think is the most important part.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and, you know, and then taking the time to educate and provide that clear, actionable information to your consumers so they don't have to worry or second guess whether or not that product meets their own value as they are shopping or purchasing those products.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, uh, yeah, exactly.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I completely agree with you.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, one thing I I wanted to bring this up because, like, you know, it's something that's always bothered me.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that there's a lot of value right now in how scientific brands, like more science-heavy brands, are focusing on these proprietary ingredients, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're like saying, you know, XYZ57 is our proprietary blend of ingredients or our new ingredient that we're using and it's the technology behind what we're creating.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: But my question is, well, what is that?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what is that?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's no transparency provided.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what are your thoughts around those kind of ingredients where they're not, I mean, brands are not disclosing what this magical, you know, thing that they say is at the heart of their whole formulation, you know, they're not really disclosing that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like telling you, like, oh, this helps with longevity or this helps with, you know, reducing wrinkles, you know, and this and and they have all these like claims, but at the end of the at the end of the day, if you go onto their website, there's no explanation of what that ingredient is.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what I've seen multiple times.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I would just love to hear your thoughts on that, you know, beer bringing transparency to those kind of ingredients.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think I mentioned this earlier, but that disclosure to me is a the baseline.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: When it when I do see anything that says proprietary or, you know, trade secret or any of anything along those lines on an ingredient list, that is alarming.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: At the at the minimum, being able for a consumer to be able to know what's what they're putting in their body is the bare minimum, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think, you know, I understand there might be competitive nature to it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's a reason why we've we've leaned towards being more withholding of information than not in in the past, but I think the standard is different today.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't cut it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's and and especially around if really that one ingredient is your proprietary nat makes your product that proprietary, then maybe there's more to think about around uh innovation.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I feel.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think at the end of the day, that transparency is a non-negotiable at this point.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's interesting because we've all also seen through beauty, obviously we focus on the beauty and personal care, but as we're you know moving towards other adjacent verticals, supplements are we see that a lot these days around.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, supplements are a big for me, it's like a big gray area.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't, yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And especially when it's you're ingesting it, it's not just even topical.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely a lot of work to be done in the industry and for the industry to come together and promote innovation through transparency and collaboration.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's definitely an interesting conversation about when it comes to proprietary blends of ingredients.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's I've had a lot of comments, you know, come in that a lot of times consumers doubt, you know, a brand.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: They say, okay, well, I know that they're claiming that there's this technology, but I personally believe it's nothing new.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've had people have say comments like that to me.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I mean, I can't give you a response to that because I don't know either.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like even though I might have, you know, have more insight into the brand, a little bit more, it's very hard to provide these answers.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I really urge brands, if there's anybody listening in that's you know from the brand side, you have to disclose.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's close, it's cool if you have, you know, a great technology or a great innovation that you've patented and that you are now bringing forward in your formulation.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to provide like data and actual in real words.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is this?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it has to be written out.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I really believe that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's many times when people say that I, you know, we have an ingredient blend.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what does that even mean?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it can only be so many things, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like we are we're working with so many chemicals and and they have to be explained and they have to be written out in plain terms that this is the exact chemical that I'm putting in this, you know, and that needs to be stated.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's my opinion, at least, you know.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 100% with you.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and what's great is I do think, well, this is me being optimistic, but I like like you said, consumers are voting with that, uh, they're, you know, voting for those that are more transparent.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think we're starting to see that shift where this concept of withholding information potentially leading to them not having that same level of demand or impact in the in in the industry because consumers actually do care about knowing and picking products and brands that commit to being more transparent and disclosing those information about their products.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, obviously we're speaking about ingredients, but there's so much within or beyond that as well, around it it's the corporate practices that the brand does.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, you know, if they have give back programs, if they are the things that they're doing to perhaps reduce waste.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So such a holistic approach, and I think we're moving more towards more information, more disclosure than not.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So any, you know, I'd I'd say any brands that are still living in that concept of let's not let's provide as little information as possible.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's changing.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it it'd be better to move away from that and find other ways to market your products.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with you.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that there are founders listening in that want to find solutions to this problem.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I know there's a lot of really genuine brands out there that's My biggest thing is like I've interviewed so many amazing, amazing brands and that they are really trying to change this world, you know, of OTC products in a way that they provide solutions, you know, for consumers worldwide that are not based on, you know, toxic formulations, that are not based on things that are going to actually cause any harm, you know, to people, especially when we now, I mean, you're seeing a uptick and autoimmune disorders and you know, all these hypersensitivities and stuff.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So people are really looking for solutions.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe in what they're doing.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that it's gonna help your cause if you are now taking a step further, you know, taking that extra step and saying, no, not only do we do this, but we're gonna show you exactly what we put in here, you know, and we're gonna we're gonna be transparent about it and we're gonna be honest with our consumers that this is what it is and and this is why it works.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's the the next frontier, the last frontier is is really that, you know.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I I am a huge believer in what you guys are doing and the message you're spreading.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it, you know, it's it's so well timed as well, you know, in terms of how much innovation is going on right now in the space.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been really fun, Yashi.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming onto the show and and chatting with me.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I really love Novi and I I think that we could never know enough, you know, about ingredients and and learning about you know where they come from and why.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: This has been really great.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I could talk about this a lot.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's any questions, any and any of any of our the listeners have more questions, so feel free to connect with me.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Novi connect.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they find you?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yashi, where you guys like if brands are interested, you know, I know a lot of brand founders tune in.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So NobiConnect.com is our website to sign up through that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, like I mentioned, we work with uh multiple different retailers, you know, the PD brand retailers.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully you're already in our product, you know, in our in our software, you're using a software already.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: But if not, find us through nobiconnect.com and you know, we're happy to help you support you navigate this complex industry and help you move towards the greater sustainability that we're all aspiring in this industry to move towards.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, though, guys, definitely check it out, especially if you're on the brand side of things, even if you're a consumer, check them out, you know.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So look at their work and see what they're doing.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important now more than ever for consumers to get involved, you know, and help brands make decisions.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think if you chime in and you use your voice and and tell brands what you want to see, they're gonna listen, you know.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that more often than not.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I really encourage everybody to do that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have not already, I remind you, please subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Podcasts or wherever you tune in to Skin Anarchy.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love to see, you know, all of you chime in and kind of spread the word about us.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you do that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I will be back next time.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 24:54
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• 24:59
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• 25:42
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• 25:47
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• 25:54
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• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.