Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / He Started With $20 on eBay & Built Discount Vape Pen: Mark Pitts's Road to a Million Dollar Empire

Transcript

He Started With $20 on eBay & Built Discount Vape Pen: Mark Pitts's Road to a Million Dollar Empire · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:06
  Mark Pitts, welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 0:09
  Thanks for having me, man.
• 0:11
  Absolutely.
• 0:12
  Very excited to talk to you today.
• 0:14
  So Mark, you are the co founder of Discount Vape Pen.
• 0:18
  And that's a company that's been in the Vape Pen space for, for over the last decade.
• 0:24
  And you've got quite a, quite an interesting, almost a classic entrepreneurial story of how you got started and how you, how you grew and scaled this company, which is quite, you know, it's what I think all the entrepreneurs
• 0:38
  listening will really resonate with.
• 0:40
  But could you just, just to set the stage for our listeners, can you talk about how you got started and how you got here?
• 0:45
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:46
  So around 2007, you know, I graduated high school, so I go into college, 0708 went in for marketing.
• 0:57
  And in the course of that, probably a couple years in, this is Also, you know, 2007 is the beginning of the iPhone.
• 1:07
  So coming into school, I'm very excited about marketing.
• 1:11
  I'm wanting to learn about apps, I'm wanting to learn about products and these things like that.
• 1:16
  These things are very new.
• 1:18
  And I learned that wasn't the, in the curriculum.
• 1:23
  Curriculum, excuse me, curriculum yet.
• 1:26
  And so I decided to try and venture out on my own and I left school and a couple years after that I met a friend and he showed me this, this device.
• 1:40
  And this is during the time where I'm pretty much just throwing things up on, on ebay.
• 1:44
  I've learned about, you know, sites like Alibaba, Aliexpress, where you can start sourcing some random products from, you know, all over the world.
• 1:53
  So I'm playing around with ebay, trying to make a little side hustle there.
• 1:57
  Gives me this device.
• 1:59
  It's a battery.
• 2:00
  He's telling me what they're doing with it out in California and I'm like, oh, this, this, this is pretty cool.
• 2:05
  I've never seen anything like this.
• 2:06
  Over here.
• 2:08
  Let me grab a couple, you know, spend about 20 bucks, put them, put that on ebay.
• 2:15
  And that thing is one of these vape pens.
• 2:18
  Put that on ebay.
• 2:19
  It goes right away.
• 2:21
  And, and in my mind I'm thinking small at the time, like, oh great, I might have something that could make me a couple hundred bucks a month, get rid of my phone bill, that type thing.
• 2:31
  And every time I spent 20, then I'm spending 40, then I'm spending 200 and it's just going, going, going.
• 2:39
  And that's when I look at my partner, the other co founder, because we were both doing the same thing, putting products up on ebay.
• 2:47
  And we were like, you know, this might be something.
• 2:51
  And put.
• 2:52
  Put a couple more dollars behind it and started what we got today.
• 2:56
  Okay.
• 2:56
  Love that.
• 2:57
  And so much to unpack just in that short little intro.
• 3:01
  So let's just start.
• 3:02
  So.
• 3:03
  So you go to college, you're excited, right?
• 3:06
  You're in marketing, you're going to college, you want to learn.
• 3:09
  It's like the time the iPhone just comes out.
• 3:11
  Apps are now a thing.
• 3:12
  It's new.
• 3:13
  You're a young kid, you're ambitious, and then you find out they're not even teaching that in school.
• 3:19
  Yes.
• 3:19
  It was nowhere in there.
• 3:21
  It was.
• 3:22
  I was learning more from magazines like Entrepreneur Mag from Inc.
• 3:27
  Than I was in the classes there.
• 3:31
  You don't really even get into your core classes until a couple years in, only to find out that they're still on billboards.
• 3:38
  And what the difference between a slice of life commercial and, you know, a testimonial commercial.
• 3:47
  And I'm like, well, when do we get into the.
• 3:50
  To the apps like, this is taking over.
• 3:52
  And they had no answers for me.
• 3:54
  There's nothing in textbooks yet.
• 3:57
  So I, I was like, I could either continue with this and maybe it doesn't take me anywhere.
• 4:04
  Maybe I'll land a job somewhere that I don't really like because it's not doing the thing, or I could just, you know, get going on my own.
• 4:15
  And that's.
• 4:15
  That's kind of always how I've been anyway.
• 4:19
  Even as a, even as a kid, you know, I was always into, like, I was always into business.
• 4:25
  You know, I'm looking at business books.
• 4:27
  Some of my favorite, you know, movies back then were, you know, like the game.
• 4:32
  Anything really business related.
• 4:37
  Those were excited me.
• 4:38
  So I just, I just left, you know, probably about my third year in.
• 4:42
  Halfway in, I was like, I can't do this.
• 4:45
  So I took off and then tried to just try to hack the Internet on my own.
• 4:51
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• 5:37
  Wow.
• 5:38
  Yeah.
• 5:38
  And that's a whole other conversation we could have about the relevance of college and how is it keeping up with the way the world's advancing, particularly for business and entrepreneurship.
• 5:49
  But okay, so you, you decide you're out, you're going to just figure it out on your own.
• 5:54
  You get into this affiliate marketing, e commerce and ebay and all these sites are starting to really rise to prominence around this time.
• 6:03
  So you're playing around, selling some stuff and you come across the vape pen, which had just recently been invented at that time.
• 6:09
  Like you said, you spend a few bucks on it, you throw it up online, it sells right away, you buy more, sells right away.
• 6:18
  And again, it's starting to, starting to take off.
• 6:20
  And initially, like you said, you're thinking small, maybe a few hundred bucks here or there.
• 6:24
  But then as it continues to grow, the light bulbs went off somewhere and you realize this is really a thing that could, that could really grow.
• 6:32
  You had a co founder who's now your co founder you're connected with at that time.
• 6:36
  So when those light bulbs start to go off and you think this could be a real opportunity here, like what, what happens next?
• 6:44
  So the next thing there.
• 6:45
  Well, at that time, me and my co founder, we were already at the mindset of, you know, we want to create some sort of business.
• 6:55
  We had tried our hand in something way earlier in the food industry, like try to do like a, like a little coffee sh.
• 7:04
  Deli, but that wasn't us.
• 7:07
  So we were still searching and you know, I guess, I guess what was going off in, in our minds once this product started catching on is like, okay, I think, I think this is the thing we've been looking
• 7:21
  for.
• 7:22
  You know, maybe we can really take another stab at, you know, enterprise basically and see if, hey, maybe we can turn this into a local shop.
• 7:33
  Right?
• 7:33
  That was, that was really our next step was a local shop and you know, to have our listing online on Google.
• 7:42
  We weren't so heavy on the E commerce.
• 7:47
  Even though the website came before we actually were able to open our doors in our brick and mortar store.
• 7:54
  But the brick and mortar was the, the idea at the time to go for, you know, the next level just to see, you know, what, what we could drum up.
• 8:06
  It wasn't so big as it is now.
• 8:10
  There, there were shops few and far between.
• 8:13
  Smoke shop and vape shop were two very separate things and, but we knew that there was a demand for it.
• 8:19
  I had been to, you know, a couple vape shops Myself had.
• 8:24
  Conventions were already happening.
• 8:26
  So I'm like, all right, there's.
• 8:28
  There's definitely something here.
• 8:29
  And that's where.
• 8:30
  Where we got started, we just decided to start buying some office furniture and like, some display cases.
• 8:36
  And we get.
• 8:37
  We got started there.
• 8:38
  Okay.
• 8:39
  All right.
• 8:39
  So you're thinking brick and mortar, you know, and this is during the rise of E Commerce, so maybe you might not have even.
• 8:46
  Right.
• 8:46
  It was so new at the time, right.
• 8:48
  Like, it's.
• 8:49
  It seems almost natural to still gravitate towards brick and mortar.
• 8:53
  So you, You.
• 8:54
  You kind of throw it together and you get the open up.
• 8:57
  How did it do when you first opened up?
• 9:00
  It was.
• 9:00
  It was very interesting, right?
• 9:03
  We.
• 9:03
  We always understood the.
• 9:06
  The idea of, you know, if you build it, they will come is not really a thing.
• 9:11
  We understood that.
• 9:12
  But with this thing in particular, it had such like a magnetism to it.
• 9:18
  If you remember the.
• 9:20
  This in the beginning, everybody would go out and they.
• 9:23
  They'd use them and they blow up these huge clouds of smoke.
• 9:26
  And it kind of like is.
• 9:27
  Where is that coming from?
• 9:29
  Usually get that.
• 9:30
  That look like, who is.
• 9:31
  Who's doing this?
• 9:33
  So when we first got it, we.
• 9:34
  Sometimes we'd stand outside in front and we, you know, use the vape blowing up these huge clouds.
• 9:40
  And we happen to be in a little plaza with a.
• 9:44
  With a pizza place next to us.
• 9:45
  So it had some traffic on its own.
• 9:48
  And, you know, little by little, but not very much long after, within about probably six months, we had.
• 9:54
  We started to have regulars.
• 9:56
  And you know, for us, that's like, you know, we got something like.
• 10:01
  We got regular guys who come in and they come and chat with us.
• 10:05
  We're.
• 10:06
  We're building something here.
• 10:08
  We didn't know how big, but okay, we.
• 10:11
  We have something that we can continue to pour into.
• 10:15
  And.
• 10:15
  And then, you know, within about a year, we had it.
• 10:18
  We had a nice, decent, decent flow in there.
• 10:22
  And it was nice, you know, people pretty.
• 10:26
  From all ages, really, because a lot of people were getting away from cigarettes because of the smell.
• 10:31
  So we had all ages coming there, and it was kind of very much like community driven, if that makes any sense.
• 10:40
  There's just people from the local area and they.
• 10:43
  They'd hang out there.
• 10:45
  Of course they'd spend, but they'd hang out there.
• 10:47
  And, you know, we kind of became a little staple in the little town that we ran.
• 10:51
  Okay.
• 10:52
  And given that, like, you were so new in business, right?
• 10:56
  Just kind of recently out of high school, dropped out of college.
• 10:59
  You seem to have this natural entrepreneurial spark.
• 11:04
  Even after some early failures, we're still always looking out for, like, what's going to be the next thing, what, what kind of business can I get into?
• 11:10
  And then you find something that starts to take off.
• 11:12
  How did you navigate, like, all the things that come along with learning how to operate a real retail establishment and all the other aspects of running a business maybe that you, you had, you'd have to learn on the
• 11:26
  fly.
• 11:27
  A ton of, a ton of trial and error, really.
• 11:30
  We didn't have any, you know, any large loans.
• 11:35
  We didn't have any kind of backing.
• 11:37
  So it's all bootstrapped, right?
• 11:39
  It's me and my partner.
• 11:40
  It's our own money.
• 11:41
  So when that's the case, you are a lot more cautious in spending.
• 11:48
  And that is, you know, a good, a good thing to have, at least from my experience, when starting a business.
• 11:56
  If you start off and you, you walk into a, a business, you open your doors for the first time and you have a huge loan behind you and you still got some of that, that, that investment in the
• 12:07
  bank, you're not so, so aware of your spending, and then you cut, you fall into traps because everything doesn't work for everybody, right?
• 12:19
  So what worked for my shop might not work for another shop.
• 12:24
  And if we had started with, you know, some, some sort of, you know, investor, whether it be the bank or somebody private, we might have looked at other shops and kind of copied what they were doing and could
• 12:40
  have, you know, broken down a lot sooner than, you know, how we started.
• 12:47
  Just because we, we were going off of someone else's experience, that it isn't our own.
• 12:53
  We're not, we're not very conscious of how we're buying.
• 12:57
  And, you know, that's, I hope I'm answering the question, but that's, that's more or less one of the things that kind of helped us along, that we were not backed by anything.
• 13:10
  It made it tougher, definitely.
• 13:12
  Especially when you're trying to maintain inventory and trying to figure out what it is that people are interested in the most when there's seemingly new devices and products coming out every week.
• 13:25
  You know, it helped us, help us grow in the right way, I should say, by just being fearful of making the wrong decision.
• 13:34
  Okay, so you're saying the fact that, like, again, you had no formal training, any of this, you just had to figure it out as you go.
• 13:41
  A lot of trial and error, and the fact that you're bootstrapped and you didn't have a huge budget or huge backend.
• 13:46
  You really, you really felt the ramifications of every financial decision right away.
• 13:51
  So therefore, that caution really, I guess, helped you early on by not maybe making any foolish investments or spending too much in this area, in that area, and just being very frugal as you kind of scale the business.
• 14:03
  Is that fair to say?
• 14:03
  Absolutely.
• 14:04
  Absolutely.
• 14:05
  Okay.
• 14:06
  Well, during those early years, too, especially when it was challenging and just trying to figure all that out, was there ever a point in time you thought about giving up?
• 14:14
  No, I was much more stubborn when I was younger, you know, 13, 15 years ago.
• 14:22
  So at that time, I'm thinking, you know, we're just going to win.
• 14:25
  We're going to figure it out.
• 14:26
  We're going to.
• 14:26
  We're going to put this together.
• 14:28
  There's.
• 14:28
  There's no way out at this point.
• 14:30
  And.
• 14:30
  And part of that is that I never really wanted to work for some sort of corporation or anything like that or have to go back into that.
• 14:41
  So it was also one of those things where we were looking to find, you know, some freedom in some sense.
• 14:48
  So to quit this meant to go back to a way where, you know, our schedule is determined for us and things of that nature.
• 14:58
  Okay.
• 14:59
  All right.
• 14:59
  So then as you're growing and scaling, what was the inflection point where things really started to take off for you?
• 15:06
  Yeah, so we.
• 15:08
  We started our store and the website not at the same moment in time, but they were both in about 2014.
• 15:17
  So by 2015, when we would have, like I was saying, we had some regular customers at that point.
• 15:25
  We had a daily, constant flow, you know, but now we've got some.
• 15:31
  Some actual stock that was, I want to say, after the holidays of 2014 and beginning of 2015.
• 15:38
  That was the time when we were seeing actual, like, revenue beyond what.
• 15:45
  What we would spend.
• 15:47
  Right.
• 15:48
  So that's the point where we're looking at the, like, scaling up, like, okay, now we really need to take things to the next level.
• 15:57
  We need to really dial in on the E commerce side because, you know, we are getting more traffic from online sales.
• 16:07
  We still had ebay running at this time, by the way.
• 16:10
  So we had a website and we had ebay running.
• 16:13
  And now we're learning about e commerce and our branding and, you know, pretty much owning everything that we put out.
• 16:24
  And I believe that's when we cut our ebay site and our ebay store, I should say, and started to go just solely e commerce via our website and, you know, started making the store a little bit more robust,
• 16:43
  adding the Products, employees, that was, that was that period of time.
• 16:49
  That's what we've seen.
• 16:52
  So you're getting some real growth, right?
• 16:54
  You decide to just cut ebay and stop paying the higher commissions and just direct it all to your own site.
• 17:00
  The store is doing well and now you're actually hiring, you're hiring employees.
• 17:04
  What was that like for the first time when it was just you guys kind of bootstrapping your own money and now you're actually scaling up and hiring employees.
• 17:12
  How did that change things?
• 17:14
  Excuse me.
• 17:15
  That was interesting.
• 17:17
  We didn't do it in the way that most people do.
• 17:23
  I guess most companies do.
• 17:24
  There wasn't, at that time, there wasn't.
• 17:26
  You could still like get a newspaper and find a job.
• 17:28
  But we weren't doing anything like that.
• 17:30
  Indeed was very, very young.
• 17:33
  So we hadn't used any of those tools online.
• 17:37
  It was all kind of off referrals.
• 17:41
  So one of our first customers actually became our first employee.
• 17:45
  He was so knowledgeable of these, the product itself, and he was there every other day.
• 17:52
  And it was like it was a no brainer for us.
• 17:54
  Okay, we're gonna get you in.
• 17:57
  And we started with him, and then through him we got a couple of our other employees.
• 18:02
  Just because it only made sense.
• 18:04
  You know, it's a very technical product.
• 18:07
  Especially at that time when there was not much information out about it.
• 18:11
  You kind of needed to know some, some of the, the components in a different way.
• 18:18
  You need to know a little bit about electricity.
• 18:21
  You need to know about resistance and voltage and all this thing.
• 18:24
  So if you knew this and this is the thing that you did, chances are your friends also notice.
• 18:29
  So our first customer became our first employee and some of his friends became our second and third employees because they all already knew this.
• 18:38
  So it was easy in the beginning.
• 18:42
  Plus, you know, it helps when the product, you know, you want the product, so, you know, you can, we can work out, hash out a deal way in the beginning when it was like we were trying to figure
• 18:54
  out what do we, how do we pay someone for this?
• 18:58
  You're kind of like a, like a, like a tender, like a bartender in a sense at that time.
• 19:05
  So that's, that was, that was pretty easy for us actually, until the later years when we started using.
• 19:11
  Indeed.
• 19:11
  And things like that.
• 19:12
  Okay, all right.
• 19:13
  And just with the regulation around that time with the product being so new.
• 19:18
  Right.
• 19:19
  And everything, kind of almost like a wild west type of vibe when it was kind of coming out, like, how did you handle the regulations around that product?
• 19:28
  Well, There really wasn't any.
• 19:30
  It really wasn't any until about 2018, 2017, 2018 there.
• 19:38
  The tobacco departments at this time were pretty much just New Jersey.
• 19:43
  We got sales, you know, in different states, but the bulk of our revenue was coming from our brick and mortar store.
• 19:50
  And the first, probably like three years or so, and there really wasn't anything on it.
• 19:58
  They didn't know how to.
• 20:01
  I don't.
• 20:01
  I don't know how they end up coming up with this, but they didn't know how to measure, I guess, nicotine, if I'm looking back on it, which took them so long to create regulation.
• 20:14
  So we just tried to stay on top of what was already there for regular tobacco.
• 20:21
  Right.
• 20:21
  For.
• 20:21
  For cigarettes and things like that.
• 20:23
  So we, you know, got our regular licenses, and there really wasn't any.
• 20:32
  Any issue.
• 20:33
  And that was probably the best part of the.
• 20:38
  The industry because everybody had a chance to figure it out and to grow before, you know, getting slammed with all these.
• 20:47
  These regulations that to this day they're just kind of like making up new tax numbers every.
• 20:52
  Seems like every day.
• 20:54
  Yeah, it's.
• 20:55
  I see.
• 20:56
  I get notifications all the time at the.
• 20:58
  The new.
• 20:59
  A new rate somewhere.
• 21:00
  It's like, wow, you're still doing this.
• 21:03
  What.
• 21:03
  So when that finally happens, right, when the regulations catch up and they start making all those, you know, those new rules, like, how did that impact the business?
• 21:14
  Yeah, I mean, it was tough because now we had to do so many more steps on the administration side.
• 21:23
  Like, now you got monthly paperwork where you got to calculate all these things, you know, decimal points of.
• 21:32
  Of amounts of nicotine.
• 21:34
  You got to have different licenses in every state.
• 21:37
  So it didn't.
• 21:37
  It wasn't this way until they made vape its own license.
• 21:42
  Then they started making licenses for the certain, certain containers of nicotine.
• 21:51
  So you get.
• 21:52
  You got free E juice.
• 21:55
  That's one type of thing.
• 21:57
  Then you got the pods beginning.
• 22:00
  We didn't even have disposable.
• 22:03
  The pens that you see at the gas station, those weren't even there yet until probably 2019 almost.
• 22:11
  So it was just once it started, it just never stopped.
• 22:15
  And then every year there's.
• 22:16
  There's something, you know, new that's just kind of chopping at you, chopping at the industry.
• 22:22
  Some people have not been able to hold up with it and got out.
• 22:29
  And, you know, that's.
• 22:31
  For us, that's.
• 22:32
  That's one of those things that could be a good thing, could be a bad thing.
• 22:36
  Right?
• 22:36
  There's, There's Less competition, sure.
• 22:40
  But you also shake out a lot of the bad actors and, and hands that aren't moving properly so that the whole industry can continue forward.
• 22:51
  Okay, so then what, so what, what did you do in response to that?
• 22:55
  Did you just continue along the same trajectory with the, the vape and, and just, you know, handle the regulations and continue to grow?
• 23:02
  Absolutely, absolutely.
• 23:04
  So, you know, we, we filed, did everything that we were supposed to do and kept moving along and kept, stayed up with the trend.
• 23:13
  There's obviously room in the industry where it doesn't have to involve tax products in this way outside of sales tax.
• 23:24
  Like the devices, for example.
• 23:26
  Devices come out all the time.
• 23:29
  They get trendy, they get interesting.
• 23:31
  At that point, there was a lot of things like mods.
• 23:37
  Mods were one where devices where you had to literally twist canthal wire and, you know, try and get it light, and people would have all these conventions and parties on it.
• 23:49
  So there are still areas of it that were unaffected.
• 23:54
  It's just the nicotine part that was the part that was hurting a lot of people, and you don't have to go that route.
• 24:02
  So we, you know, just, just, just leveled us out by having more products than anyone else, as opposed to having all these different nicotine flavors that were problematic because they got to go through whatever process of being taxed
• 24:20
  or make it into the market.
• 24:22
  There's a lot of, you know, like, form threads about different flavors and who's making it and you shouldn't buy this.
• 24:31
  So we kind of put that on hold a little bit and grew elsewhere.
• 24:36
  Okay.
• 24:37
  All right.
• 24:37
  And so where is the company at present day?
• 24:39
  Now, Right now we are completely online, discountvapin.com so we don't have brick and mortar stores anymore, and we are making a shift.
• 24:52
  Right.
• 24:52
  So these regulations are just getting more difficult to comply with.
• 24:59
  Not that it's impossible, but by the time, you know, I would say probably a year or so from now, the thing that attracted people to vape, which was having, you know, still being able to get your nicotine without
• 25:19
  the cigarette and everything that comes with the cigarette, the bad smell, the, you know, major health problems, the having to go outside in the cold, if you, if you need just to relax a little bit, if you want
• 25:35
  to, if you want to use, you know, smoke a cigarette or anything like that, that's going back.
• 25:42
  It's going back to what it kind of was.
• 25:45
  So the only things that are really going to be able to be bought as far as nicotine from a vape is the cigarette tasting, smelling thing that you were trying to get away from.
• 25:58
  So for us, we're continuing to pivot into devices.
• 26:05
  There are so many more choices for devices, especially with the rise of dispensaries.
• 26:11
  Many dispensaries do not hold devices.
• 26:16
  I'm not sure exactly if they're allowed to have both things, but many of the dispensaries don't have it.
• 26:23
  And we have always maintained that relationship with the different device brands.
• 26:28
  So we're in a good position to be a supplier of those, those materials as opposed to being in nicotine or in thc.
• 26:37
  So we're moving away from that and just becoming solely a device company.
• 26:44
  Okay, so you're leveraging your existing relationships in your history really to specialize in the one area that's not going to be impacted by these regulations where you can just niche down and that's, that's going to be where your
• 26:57
  niche is.
• 26:58
  Right.
• 26:58
  Okay.
• 26:59
  All right.
• 27:00
  And Mark, as you look back at this whole journey, right, the way you started dropping out of college, just kind of messing around online, coming across something, you know, continuing to take this messy, imperfect action and, and, you
• 27:13
  know, starting with a twenty dollar investment, selling it online and then scaling that into a multi million dollar company that's been around over a decade now.
• 27:23
  When you look back at all that, what's been the best part of it for you?
• 27:28
  Probably the, the freedom knowing that I'm in, in control of not just my schedule like everybody else would like to, you know, point out, but you're in control of your, your, your destiny in a sense.
• 27:40
  You know, there's no, there's no one above my partners and I to tell us that we can't do something.
• 27:49
  You know, sure, we're, we want to work within the limits of the law, of course, but no one makes our schedule right.
• 27:59
  We can expand or consolidate anywhere we want.
• 28:05
  We could move if we want to.
• 28:07
  We get to be with our, our families and not be, you know, confined to someone else's, you know, schedule of our time.
• 28:15
  So that's probably the best thing in, you know, all things aside, you know, there's a lot of stress in it, but I wouldn't change anything about, you know, I would start it where we are now.
• 28:30
  Okay, Love that.
• 28:31
  All right.
• 28:32
  And Mark, if people want to reach out, learn more about discount vape pen or you and your own story, or just connect with you online for any other reason, what's the best way people can find you online?
• 28:42
  The best way would be to go right to the website, discountvapen.com we have a live chat.
• 28:48
  A lot of times I'm in that live chat.
• 28:50
  So you can.
• 28:51
  You can jump in there and you'll see my face pop up.
• 28:54
  And it's not a bot, it's really me.
• 28:57
  Or you could go to my LinkedIn page, Mark Pitts, hook me up.
• 29:03
  Okay.
• 29:03
  All right, we'll link all that in the show notes for everyone as well.
• 29:06
  All right, Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and sharing all this incredible wisdom from your journey with our listeners.
• 29:12
  We greatly appreciate it.
• 29:14
  Absolutely.
• 29:14
  I appreciate you having me.