Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 764: Moving On Doesn’t Mean Letting Go with Gina Moffa

Transcript

Episode 764: Moving On Doesn’t Mean Letting Go with Gina Moffa · The Trauma Therapist

0:10
Or welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gamiferson. My
0:14
mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible selves, to be human,
0:19
to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in who
0:23
we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating authenticity,
0:28
genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more about
0:33
my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com. That's
0:38
the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started, all right, So
0:43
five, four, three, two and one are folks, Welcome back to
0:48
the podcast. Very excited to hap as my guest today. Gina Mofa Gina
0:51
Welcome, Hi guys, So great to be here. Thanks so. Gina
0:55
is a licensed a psychotherapist, mental health educator, and media consultant in New
1:00
York City. In practice for nearly two decades, she has helped thousands of
1:03
people seeking treatment for trauma, grief, as well as challenging life experiences and
1:08
transitions. This includes work with the Holocaust survivors at the ninety second Y as
1:14
well as being a clinical director from Ount sign a Hospital outpatient program specializing in
1:19
addictions. Gina received her master's are in Social Work the specialty in Trauma from
1:23
New York University. She's the author of the book titled Moving On Doesn't Mean
1:29
Letting Go. A Modern Guide to Navigating Loss. Gina, Welcome to the
1:34
podcast. Thank you so much. So before we keep going here, share
1:38
with the listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently. Oh great.
1:42
I am from the Hudson Valley portion of New York, the Lower Huston
1:46
Valley, right along fifty miles north of New York City, and found my
1:51
way back to my origins where my parents were born and raised in New York
1:57
City. So here I am not too far from home. So did you
2:00
ever spend time away from New York? I did. I studied abroad in
2:04
London and so and in Italy for a little bit, and so I've been
2:08
mostly mostly international if I leave New York. But for whatever reason, my
2:13
lighthouse is always in New York. Awesome, awesome, So all right,
2:17
let's dive in here. Obviously we're going to get to the book. But
2:22
how did all this start? For you? This calling? I don't know
2:28
if I want to call it a calling, Maybe you could call it a
2:30
calling, but into therapy, into trauma specifically. I call it a landing
2:36
as much as a calling, you know, It's something I feel like I
2:38
fell into. My origins were in international relations very very long ago, and
2:46
wanting to really help out with humanitarian crises and being really interested in as you
2:52
can tell with my background with Holocaust survivors, but also working in parts of
2:57
Africa, and so I was always very interested in community resilience actually and just
3:02
the idea of resilience. And so I found my way through college doing all
3:09
this, but I kept coming back to the idea of human behavior and the
3:13
trauma itself and not just how to rebuild after that, necessarily in a community
3:17
way, but how to do it in a psychological way. And so I
3:23
wound up somehow getting really interested in trauma work early on, and wound up
3:30
going to NYU School of Social Work, which is a very clinical program,
3:34
thankfully, and finding my way towards trauma work after that. But it was
3:38
international trauma work and the International Trauma Studies program at NYU back in two thousand
3:44
and five, and at that time it was sort of a great marriage between
3:47
all the international stuff and you know, survivors of torture and that kind of
3:53
thing and really human behavior, and so that's sort of how it started.
3:58
Through the years, it really startled me to think that we're doing all of
4:01
this trauma work and we're not looking at grief and there isn't a lot of
4:06
supportive Yeah, we'll get there, but how did you even you know,
4:11
you talked about this early interest in international relations and community resiliency, and then
4:16
where did that come from? You just come out of the room, boom,
4:19
I'm doing it. That's a really good question. You know. I
4:26
was early on in my life a musician. I know this sounds That's why
4:28
I'm calling this a landing and maybe sometimes falling down the stairs in a way,
4:33
and wound up transferring universities and met the first person at the cafeteria was
4:41
the dean of the international relations program, and so I decided that I really
4:46
loved her and you know, hey, i'll give it a try. I'll
4:49
take a few classes. And it really spoke to me, and I think
4:53
it was the humanistic way in which she approached international relations and diplomacy and education.
5:00
And I just felt like coming together, forming community and being a part
5:04
of understanding where people are coming from with curiosity was something that I really piqued
5:10
my interest in those early classes, which really threads its way to what I
5:16
do now as a therapist. You know, that sense of curiosity, and
5:18
so it all really does mix up. What about that that humanistic way that
5:26
she approached it, and what specifically about what she was doing got you?
5:30
I think it was just what I was talking about, the curiosity, you
5:34
know, looking at how two countries. Now I'm really taking us off track,
5:40
but you know, two countries such as the United States and Japan even
5:45
here we are, you know, dropping an atomic bomb and later on,
5:49
you know, forming the Fulbright Scholarship and inviting Japan as the first country to
5:54
join it, and maintaining that sense of like, oh, no, we
5:58
did this thing, how are we going to how are we going to come
6:01
back together? In a sense, and using education and curiosity and people,
6:08
real civilians to form a sense of peace and understanding between people. But mostly
6:14
it was always the curiosity. So yeah, I got in the trenches with
6:18
that one. No, this is what this podcast is about. I mean,
6:23
this is what you know. What I want to know is the minutia,
6:29
the details of what makes you the super inspiring interesting, uh person,
6:38
I mean, this is what people listen to. So all right, you
6:43
you were, what kind of what did you play? What kind of music
6:45
did you play? I was. I was a singer most of my life,
6:48
since I was a little baby Gina. I played piano and violin as
6:53
well, but I was a singer my entire life. Sag on a children's
6:58
album with Carol King's daughter, did a duet with Carol King as a little
7:01
Gina. So I always thought my life would be going towards music, and
7:05
it still is. And I still sing, and I do charity shows in
7:09
New York City as well. But you know, career wise, I didn't
7:13
need a diploma to tell me that I could sing, and so I wound
7:16
up leaving that. But and my life is so much richer. It's got
7:20
all of these elements, and because of music, I bring a lot of
7:25
that into my work as well. But yeah, it is the country roads,
7:30
as they say, to getting where to where we are. So how
7:32
did things unfold such that you moved more towards the trauma work and so forth.
7:41
I think it was listening to individual stories and you know, volunteering with
7:48
people who were seeking asylum in the United States and really wanting to understand how
7:55
they were going to rebuild and how they were going to move forward, and
7:58
what was in them strength that they have, and what was their support system
8:03
like. And I think those sort of questions that I was asking of them,
8:05
and I was more curious and what was inside them that they could keep
8:11
on going. And when I realized that, I realized I needed to go
8:16
into something that was going to lead me to a more clinical route, which
8:20
is why I chose social work because it felt to me like I could still
8:24
do the advocacy that I wanted to do and still get educated in that way,
8:30
but also still have that clinical aspect and really get in there and look
8:33
at and understand human behavior and resiliency and you know, how we how we
8:39
heal, just how we heal as humans and everybody is different based on our
8:43
histories and so many different factors. Yeah, I mean that's a good segue
8:48
into the But before we get there, Oh, I didn't mean to do
8:52
that. No, no, no, no no, I'm just really intrigued
8:56
many things about you're saying. So when you first we're intrigued and curious about
9:05
how people survived and were resilient I mean, you know that that's amazing,
9:11
but it's different when you're sitting down in front of someone and a survivor and
9:16
they're telling you these incredible, horrific stories. What was that like for you
9:24
when you first were like started to hear these stories. I think that I
9:28
felt like I was out of my league. I felt like I didn't know
9:31
what to do with the story. I didn't I wanted to jump into save
9:37
your solution resolution mode. I wasn't trained. But also, the human instinct
9:41
is to help in any way possible, and doing is a very American thing,
9:50
and so I felt incredibly helpless. But I felt like, Gina,
9:54
what did you get yourself into? And how are you going to help this
9:56
person who's got a much bigger thing going on in their life and you just
10:01
sitting here volunteering your time to help her with the biggest decision of her life,
10:07
you know, for example. But I definitely felt like one of the
10:11
things about trauma work was not something I was able to do at that particular
10:16
time early in my career, which is witness and not jump into action and
10:22
not just want to be the superhero. It's not about me, right,
10:26
And so that was a lesson very early in my student days, which I
10:31
think we still you know, we still learn that along the lines. You
10:35
know when when to do and when to witness and when to just be present
10:39
all of that. But yes, thank you for that. Let's start talking
10:45
about the book here. So it's called moving On. Moving on doesn't mean
10:48
letting go. A modern guide to navigating laws. How did this book come
10:52
about? This book came about because, you know, if we're taking the
10:58
country roads about trauma and grief, I started doing a lot of trauma work
11:03
in my private practice, and trauma work inevitably led to more grief work which
11:09
I had been doing prior, and I was doing it now with a little
11:13
bit of a younger population. And so during the pandemic I was getting calls
11:18
from all over the world and all over the country for people who are going
11:22
through major loss, not just death losses like we would assume, but you
11:26
know, other losses like loss of job, loss of home, loss of
11:31
identity, you know, breakups and divorce of course, so much of that,
11:35
even friendship loss has been an incredibly popular topic coming into my practice and
11:43
between sessions. So I work with a population of really high functioning emerging adults,
11:48
and they were saying, Okay, this is great, but I need
11:52
something in between sessions that's gonna sort of help me along the way. I'm
11:56
feeling really out of control. I need to control things now. Understandably,
12:01
we live in New York City and this is a thing to be able to
12:05
get things done, and also kind of a Western society ideal. And so
12:11
one of my clients said to me, you know, do you have any
12:13
books to recommend? And I recommended some and in the topic of grief and
12:18
with the topic of grief and trauma. And they came back and they said,
12:22
these are good, but not speaking to me. And I need something
12:26
that will speak to this lifestyle that we're in right now. And they said,
12:30
you know, everything you say in session, I really I resonate with
12:33
it. I jive with it, Like why don't you write it? And
12:35
I laughed and time went by, and then I kind of kept hearing that,
12:41
and I thought to myself, all right, I don't have enough of
12:43
that sense of ego to say I'm going to write the book that fills in
12:48
the gap that's not my personality. What was that gap you're talking about that
12:54
they were expressing the gap is that sense of agency over something that's a really
13:00
unpredictable journey. So what I mean by that is so many traditional books on
13:05
grief, we'll talk about how grief is not linear, which is true.
13:09
You know, there's no timeline, it's not linear, it's messy, it
13:11
lasts as long as it lasts. That is all true. And yet for
13:16
a young emerging adult who doesn't have anyone else in their life who's experiencing loss,
13:22
to have something that unpredictable and to say, you know what, your
13:26
journey is going to be what it is, and you've just got to feel
13:28
it for as long as you feel it, and your whole life is upside
13:31
down right now, and that's okay because that's normal. That doesn't fly.
13:37
And so what it was is, okay, how do we give somewhat of
13:39
a map, somewhat of you know, a structure to something that is structureless
13:46
and unpredictable. And so the book in my mind was to say, okay,
13:52
what do I do week by week in therapy with you know, X
13:56
amount of people? And these people are the people who need that sense of
14:00
structure because being out flailing about on their own in a state of grief and
14:05
or traumatic loss is like a death sentence to them in some ways. And
14:09
so the book for me is as close to being in grief therapy and trauma
14:15
therapy with me as one can get, which means I have tools and exercises,
14:20
but I also share I've been around the block. I lost my mom
14:22
a few years ago, and I failed miserably as at grief, you know,
14:26
and so I sort of give a little bit of kind of what I
14:31
did wrong and what I would do differently, and what I learned from it.
14:35
But it speaks to a lifestyle that needs a sense of something to hold
14:41
on to. So that to me is sort of the gap, you know,
14:45
is really let's give you a sense of agency, even if in theory
14:48
there isn't any you know, but it only matters that you have something to
14:52
hold on to. Let me just remind everyone i'm speaking with, Gina Malfa.
14:58
Are going to pause a moment here to think our sponsors, all right,
15:03
So it's really interesting what you're saying. You know, you said about
15:09
how grief is not linear and it's going to take however long it takes,
15:13
and you said we know when it when I'm telling this to these these people,
15:18
it doesn't fly. That's really interesting because it speaks to the difference between
15:24
you know, what might be true on paper, but isn't true in the
15:30
moment. I think that's really really interesting how you even identify that number one.
15:35
So let's break it down. How do you address that in the book?
15:41
Sure? Well, I address it by saying what the truth is,
15:46
which is the truth is grief is not linear. You know, it will
15:48
be different for everyone depending on your culture. All of this also that it's
15:52
important that we find a sense of safety. Not everybody either has a luxury
15:56
the time or the safety to grief. Right can take that for granted,
16:00
that we have breathment leave, you know, even for three days, and
16:03
people don't get that. And so you know, I start out by really
16:07
just acknowledging all the barriers to grieving and all the things that will make it
16:11
really scary, and that feels important. Safety is a really big repetitive theme
16:18
throughout my book because a lot of people either compare themselves to other people who've
16:23
lost someone, compare themselves to people who have everything going for them and have
16:30
everything, or they feel pressured and have the expectations from people around them to
16:34
hurry up and get this grief process over with, and you know, wow,
16:41
it's true. I mean, this is it, you know. And
16:44
and the platitudes that society comes out with, you know, like well this,
16:48
you know, it's better that they're not suffering, or hey, it
16:51
could be worse, or you know, you'll get another dog, or hey,
16:53
maybe you'll get pregnant on the next round. People are really thoughtless,
16:56
and so part of the book is a teaching experience for people who are supporting
17:02
somebody grieving, which is saying, hey, I know you have good intentions,
17:06
but maybe let's try it a different way, and here's what they're experiencing.
17:11
But also as a griever, to sort of get to know your needs,
17:14
to look at your grief honestly, to look at your part in something,
17:17
to look at your life as a whole. What was my life like
17:19
before this loss? How did I cope with hard things and hard situations before
17:26
this loss? What are the strengths I have in me to keep going in
17:29
this loss? And what are the things that I think hold me back?
17:32
Maybe I ruminate, you know, maybe I have wishful thinking and magical thinking
17:36
over this loss, or maybe you're grieving something or someone that you had a
17:41
really abusive, horrific relationship with, and now you're grieving these different layers of
17:45
that. And really it's just the understanding and acknowledgment that grief is messy,
17:51
grief is nuanced, grief is layered, and grief is incredibly individual. And
17:56
yet within that, here are some things that we can do. You can
18:00
get to know your needs. Most of us, when we're in a state
18:03
of loss, don't know what we need. And it feels really crazy making
18:06
because I may want to be alone one minute, and five minutes later feel
18:10
utterly isolated and existentially alone and say, oh my god, I need to
18:15
be around people. Or I may be invited to a wedding that I really
18:18
want to go to, but at the last minute I need help trying to
18:21
figure out how to get out of that because now my loss is creating panic
18:25
attacks in me. And it's really understanding also that grief is a full body
18:29
experience, and so a lot like my own experience, grief showed up more
18:33
physically for me and physical symptoms and teaching people what that is and understanding what
18:38
is it grieving to grieve? What does that mean? Really the idea of
18:45
grieving is that it is a full body response and a full body natural response
18:52
to any kind of significant loss. But what that looks like is different for
18:56
everyone. But it can be a number of physical symptoms that come up.
19:02
It can be a behavior, right, somebody can grieve and still be somebody
19:07
who keeps very busy or exercises NonStop, or you know, has to go
19:11
out. And you know, I have a client who loves to hike.
19:14
And people are like, oh, you know so and so is not really
19:17
grieving. Well, actually they are. And this is how that process is
19:22
within their body, like a tab always running in the background. We don't
19:26
escape our grief, right, but there are different ways that we all can
19:29
go about it. But it also manifests in different ways, and so it
19:33
can look like rumination. It can look like, you know, traumatic symptoms
19:37
such as nightmares or you know, being preoccupied and all of that, and
19:45
it could and it could look like you're just having emotional sensations like sadness and
19:48
you're kind of just going through what Elizabeth Koubler Ross originally set out for the
19:53
terminally ill, but now has been adopted by people grieving, which with all
19:59
your spec to her, you know, was a great jumping off point for
20:03
sure, but doesn't encapsulate the whole of the messiness. So grieving really does
20:10
look different for everyone, and the idea of it as a verb is nearly
20:14
impossible to encapsulate because it is all of it. It's the movement, it's
20:18
the rhythms, it's the ways you cope, it's your sensations. Is it
20:23
the I'm assuming there's a difference between, uh, you know, intentional grieving
20:30
and unintentional can we just because a lot of times people are like, you
20:33
know, I'm not allowed You're not allowing yourself to grieve, You're not feeling,
20:40
you're not allowing yourself to feel, You're not allowing yourself to be sad.
20:42
We often hear that in our culture. Absolutely What do you say to
20:48
that? What do I say to that? Is that grief will come whether
20:53
we want it to or not. It's just how it pops up. Right,
20:57
Using myself as an example, when my mother died, I didn't have
21:00
time to grieve quote unquote, And I also thought, because I worked with
21:04
grief for so long, I knew how to do it, so I didn't
21:07
have to do it like everyone else did. I was at the head of
21:11
the class, right, so I could stand there with my victory flag until
21:15
I wound up in the hospital with pancreatitis and I both thyroidism, and you
21:19
know, so for me, I thought I was getting off Scotch free,
21:22
and I wound up getting incredibly sick over the period of a few months,
21:27
and you know, saying to myself, Oh, I guess, I guess
21:30
I'm not exempt from this grief class, you know, after all, in
21:33
this particular way, And how pompous of me to even think that I could,
21:38
you know, have a one up on what is a very human universal
21:42
wound. So you know, I do think that we think sometimes that we're
21:48
getting away from something, or we're compartmentalizing it, or we're pushing it somewhere,
21:53
but really it doesn't go away for very long before it comes up involuntarily
21:59
in whatever way you know, happens. Either some people will have some sort
22:03
of breakdown, or you have a physical symptom come up, or you know,
22:07
your memory starts going, so you're making mistakes easier, but it will
22:11
come up whether or not we want it to. If we use you as
22:15
an example, was your hospitalization due to the fact that like you weren't acknowledging
22:22
what was going on or accepting what was going on. You know, I
22:26
think it could have been both, really, you know, I think I
22:30
think I could intellectually for sure acknowledge that I'd lost my mother. I was
22:34
making plans around it, I was writing her eulogy. All of that was
22:38
happening. But I think emotionally, number one, I wasn't taking care of
22:42
my body. I wasn't, you know, drinking enough water. I was
22:45
probably eating a bit of steak and drinking red wine at the time, you
22:49
know where Italian. That was sort of a thing, you know, during
22:52
that period of time. And I just wasn't doing what I would normally do
22:57
to take care of myself and nourish my body and also check in with myself.
23:02
Even as a therapist, I'm always saying, okay, sorry, my
23:06
lights are going off here. But I would say to myself, you know,
23:08
hey, where are we at today? You know, put my hand
23:11
on my heart, just check in with myself, like what do we need?
23:15
I wasn't doing that. And I think, you know, even the
23:18
smallest check in with ourselves can really do something. I wasn't doing it.
23:23
I wasn't taking care of my body, and I remember going to my GP,
23:27
you know, saying like, why is all of this happening? And
23:30
I said, do you think this could be grief? You know, is
23:33
this like some byproduct of grief that I don't know about in all of my
23:37
years of doing grief work. And my doctor said, you know, how
23:41
long is it hot since your mom died? And I said, I think,
23:44
you know, it's a couple of months now. And he's like,
23:45
no, no, you're You're fine, You're over that. And it stopped
23:48
me in my tracks and I thought, number one, this is the problem
23:52
with the medical field sidebar, you know, but many of us are so
23:56
grief illiterate, you know, in different ways. But it was a moment
24:02
for me to say, yeah, I actually think this is the way this
24:04
is manifesting. Because I'm not taking care of my body and because I am
24:08
shoving down emotions because I have so much to do, this is coming up
24:14
for me physically. And I think there's a lot of merit to understanding the
24:17
ways that grief comes up physically for us. I'm not saying that everybody will
24:21
have such a dramatic experience, but even just the idea that you start getting
24:26
headaches or gastrointestinal issues, it's really important to just take notice of your body
24:32
and to understand that grieving takes endurance, and it's a lot more physical endurance
24:37
than it is anything else. And so I learned that I learned it the
24:41
hard way, and so I want to help people to not go in that
24:45
direction as best I possibly can. I want to thank you for sharing that,
24:53
because that sounds really intense, I mean, and to hear your GPCA
25:00
that, I mean, I'm not surprised, but unfortunately that's what happens a
25:06
lot of times. You mentioned this, this emerging adult category of the people
25:12
you're working with, and I want to get to that, but first I
25:15
want to ask you about this idea of You know, oftentimes when people think
25:21
of grief, naturally commonly we think of passing of a loved one, but
25:27
as you mentioned, there's a lot of different types of grief. And recently
25:30
I got divorced, which was crazy for me. And as soon as I
25:37
mentioned it to people, and a lot of people were saying, and I
25:41
know this was in the with the best of intentions, but you know,
25:45
it's hard now, but you'll move on you'll get over it. It was
25:49
the best thing that's happened to me, you know. You know, and
25:52
again, I know these people are trying, but like I found that,
25:57
like what, I'm not even there. I can't even think about what's going
26:03
to happen, you know how this is going to be the best room.
26:06
This sucks, you know. So I think oftentimes people don't know what to
26:14
say. They want to help, you know, like, like you said,
26:15
the human instinct is to help, but it oftentimes it feels like a
26:22
hot potato. How do we deal with this? It's so true. I'm
26:25
sorry you experienced that guy. Yeah, And it is hard, and it's
26:29
a grieving period, and I think people are so uncomfortable with not knowing what
26:34
to do and not knowing what to say, that they either say nothing or
26:37
they say all the wrong things because they want to give you hope. But
26:41
unfortunately, and I say this a lot, and this feels like a very
26:45
big passion of mine is to teach about grief in a way that we can
26:48
change generational relationships with the way that we grieve and the way we approach grievers,
26:55
because it's not a disease, right, but we want to get away
26:56
from it as quickly as we can. And so I call it the platitude
27:00
trap in my book, one of the chapters, because it is all about
27:04
good intentions but met all the wrong way. Right. So I'm a griever
27:08
or I'm going through a divorce and I want to feel connected and I want
27:11
to feel seen and I want someone to validate my situation, and they want
27:17
so much to do that, but they don't know what to say, so
27:19
they say all the wrong things. And now two people fall into a trap
27:22
and nobody connects. And you know, and it really has to do with
27:26
the way that we're taught. You know, none of us were taught,
27:30
even for myself early on, not not really knowing what to say when people
27:33
died, you know, to the loved ones and or divorce. To me,
27:37
it's like, oh my goodness, what you know as a kid or
27:41
something, you know, what do you say to that? Congratulations or you
27:45
know, it's all really could be It could be for some people, right,
27:48
It's a really just like any loss, it's a really individual and unique
27:52
experience. So it's really important to say, hey, gay, how is
27:56
it all? How is it feeling for you? Is what is your experience,
28:00
and and I bet it's changed from day to day. You know,
28:03
it's a lot of rediscovering and rebuilding and feeling like you're free falling in a
28:10
way and you don't know where you'll land. You know you will, but
28:12
you don't know where, you don't know how, And so all we look
28:17
for is somebody to provide that safe space or that safe landing for just just
28:22
a moment, just one connection that can feel like I can just be validated,
28:27
I could just be heard, I can just be tenderly held in whatever
28:32
it is my experience is right now. And I just feel like we need
28:36
more conversations around this. In general, we need permission to mess up,
28:42
but we also need permission to connect and be real with one another without judgment,
28:47
without expectation, without rushing us through it. So that's my hope.
28:52
I'm working on it. So as we kind of wind down here, I
28:59
want to kind of touch to this, this these emerging adults. What is
29:03
it about these people that are just swarming to you and your incredible work.
29:08
Swarming? What a word, you know, word of mouth? In New
29:12
York City, You know, not a lot of people. I don't have
29:15
many many grief referrals in New York City. So I think, you know,
29:19
I happen to be one of them that people have used, and I'm
29:22
incredibly grateful for that. I should I should add, But yeah, I
29:26
don't really know why they've swarmed to me. I am pretty active on Instagram,
29:33
and I pride myself on creating a little bit of a community there and
29:37
being really present. I don't know what it is, but I do feel
29:41
really identified with young adults in this way. People trying to build a life
29:48
and individuate and find themselves in this new world, in a very fast paced
29:55
world, which is a hard place to be. You know, even adults,
29:57
we've all lost our sense of attention. We have no attention spans.
30:02
You know, I'm doing something and someone says, okay, you can make
30:04
that real, but don't make it more than seven seconds. People will stop
30:07
listening. And it's true, you know, and it's sad, and it's
30:12
true and it's sad, and yet you you sort of have to go with
30:15
that flow or you get lost in the stream, you know, downstream.
30:19
But this is a really special group of people, and there are people who
30:23
want to heal early. They want to be present in the work. They
30:27
want to change familial unhealthy patterns. They want to be themselves and be able
30:33
to create healthy boundaries and have rewarding and fulfilling relationships and find meaning in a
30:38
way that feels authentic and honest to them. And that is amazing because I
30:45
come from a generation of family members who didn't speak what their feelings were,
30:49
had no idea what family patterns were, you know, didn't understand how to
30:53
create a healthy boundary if it hit them in the face, you know.
30:56
And so to me, this is such a no, such a noble path
31:02
that they're taking that I really not only do I respect it, but I
31:06
revere the work that they come in and do and find presence with. So
31:10
this book for me, although not just for emerging adults for sure, I
31:17
just wanted to give something back in a way that met them where they were.
31:21
Because people are looking to heal. People want to heal in a way
31:25
that many people have never you know, we want to heal in a way
31:30
we never have seen before in this society. And I think it's brave and
31:33
courageous and also scary at help and so as we as therapists, if we
31:38
can meet people where they are in this way and be able to say,
31:42
Okay, you know, this is a messy experience we're going to have,
31:45
and it will feel worse before it gets better, and you've got to stick
31:48
with it. And if you can commit to this, you will have the
31:52
most rewarding inner journey you've ever had, and your whole life will be changed
31:56
because of it. But yet it's unending and mess You know, when you
32:01
can say that and they still show up, you have to create a bridge
32:05
for them in some way. And that's what I hope my book does.
32:08
And you know, even if it's a bridge for just one broken heart,
32:13
you know, one broken grieving heart. That's my that's my goal, that's
32:16
my aim. Wow wow, amazing the book is moving on. Moving on
32:22
doesn't mean letting go A modern guide to navigating loss. Excuse me, Gina,
32:29
you are incredible. How are you working with other therapists? What are
32:36
you doing? And where can people find you? I wish I were working
32:39
with other therapists. If you want to work with me, please reach out.
32:44
I am just in private practice. It's a little bit of a lonely
32:46
endeavor, but I can be reached and found at ginamafa dot com. I'm
32:52
also on Instagram. If you want to join my community there and say hello,
32:57
it's at GINAMFA LCSW but I welcome it. I'm doing a lot of
33:00
speaking these days, but especially with my book coming out in just a few
33:06
weeks now, but it's wonderful to connect with colleagues. So it's the best,
33:12
awesome, awesome. We'll have this linked up here at the show notes
33:15
page at the Trauma Diapers podcast dot com. We'll have your book, we'll
33:17
have your website. Thank you so much for being here. It was light
33:22
meeting you and I'd love to have you back a later time. Thank you
33:25
guys so much. Thanks for coming with me on these country roads. Yeah,
33:30
definitely take care you too, You too. Thank you.