Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 406 -Double Trouble!

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 406 -Double Trouble! · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: What what what?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: H repent of any sage? Juice, tear up the true
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: down a.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Rail from the June a Mon David bar room, being
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: that the food is in the pure.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Whennessy, it's riding nice still the lights, the recsaults never
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: been rid of a basting You and.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Juicy And here we go, Here we go.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Indeed, Joseph, you're gonna stay hi, Yes, I have to.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: I had to find the mute and here we go.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: What's up? Everybody? Welcome into the Lonecoming podcast.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: This episode is going sideways from the jump, and I'm
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and apologize right now because apparently there
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: was some kind of miscommunication between us and Paul Abbott.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I sent him the link about ten or fifteen minutes
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: ago to join us, and he said, great, I'll see
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: in a couple hours. And I said, bro, we're going
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: live in two minutes seven pm Eastern, to which I've
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: not got a response yet, so he may show up
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: at some point tonight, but you know us, ever, they're professionals.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: At least I'm the professional. Joe's worried.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: I don't worried. This is what I do best off
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: the cuff in the mouth because I'm the stuff.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: We'll do it live.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: We are going to get a show together for you.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: We we kind of know what Paul wanted to talk about,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and we kind of had some things prepared, uh to
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: kind of I don't want to say, push back against.
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: His theory, if you will, but just to be the
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: what do they call it, Joe the Devil's Advocate?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, the al Pacino to your Keanu, if you
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Oh well, since we're skaffusing for
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit in hopes of Paul may show up,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and welcome in some people Joe
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: and uh scaffus with the best of them. Tiny dancer
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: in with the gold medal.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: What's up, Tiny?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Hopefully you're feeling better on the man Trey and number
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: two position t r O U b l E. Yeah,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: we're gonna changes the title of tonight's show from double
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Trouble to triple Trouble.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Because that's what we're in. Uh hallelujah. And Chiny spells
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: out south to west. What's up coming in third or
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: the bronze? Mister Schwindelman is up in the house. What's up, buddy?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, Jess, She says, Paul Abbott always brings interresting you
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: and say, yes he does when.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: He shows up.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: One time. These things get lost in translation.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Oh here he is.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Here he is, folks. Hold on, Hold on one second,
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Hold on.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Hold tight, hold that Thought'll be right back with a
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: change of scenery. Hold on, I have to change the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: whole format here. Hold tight, Okay, hold on, Paul Abbott.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Can you hear us?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Can you hear us?
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: Paul mm hmmm, h old type.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: We'll get there, we promise.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, these are the technical things.
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: Yes, live potting is.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: For the birds.
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: A great philosopher said.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Oh no, I can just joking, okay, Paul, can you
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: hear us? I don't think Paul can hear rumplings? We
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: could hear it. Paul's getting set up.
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: Testing testing.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: We can hear you, sir. Can you hear us? There?
• 6:08
  Speaker 7: Go?
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: Can you? I got you? Can you hear us? Can
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: you hear me? Can you hear us at all? Testing?
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Testing?
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: Testing? We can hear you?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Are you well Paul figures this out? Welcome some more
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: folks in here. Mike the library man, what's up? Mike
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: James Smith?
• 6:43
  Speaker 7: The man with the ordinary name.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: H w be Doves, Derek Ward is in the house. Then,
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: now what's up? Windar Jack third in the house. What's up?
• 6:56
  Speaker 7: Da in corn?
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: What's up in corner? Scott? Scott m K what's up MK?
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: You Lucky de Luga, Greetings from London.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Claude nay Deane's in the house drinking, sipping on some
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: lone stars down there in Texas.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Owen, mister Jeebus, what's up, buddy? Let's see Doug Campbell's
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: in the house. What's up Doug?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Well, Hello, sir, This ship is for the birds to
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: be precise. Hey, things happen when you're live. Pardon Paul,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Can you hear us testing for Paul? Do you know
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: sign American sign language?
• 7:54
  Speaker 7: Come here ship?
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Okay, we can hear you.
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: So weird?
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: Check your audio settings?
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: Bro Okay, gotcha, you got us? Now go ahead. Sorry everyone,
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: technical difficulty. We did have a storm at overnight in Perth.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: Hey, these things happened. These things there you're going, it's okay,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: How are you sir?
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: Good?
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: Thanks, good, good, good good to booth you guys. I've
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: spent three or four months and yeah, I probably been
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: been a bit of a journey since then. In terms
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: of work I've been doing on the you know, in
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: the case of the the odd World shooting. So yeah,
• 8:57
  Speaker 6: it's great to great to be back on and have
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: a chat with you and your audience as well.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so.
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: Good to get the live questions as well, very very
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: very informed and yeah, open minded audience, which which is
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: always really good.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I know you wanted to touch on a couple
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: of different topics.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: So whatever you want to start out with, Paul, you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: we can take you how wherever you want it and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I'll let you lead us off, lead us in, lead
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: us not into the temptation sea.
• 9:36
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean yeah, and thanks for having the book
• 9:40
  Speaker 6: up on the screen. I saw one of your one
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: of your audiences. I haven't read a book in twenty years, itaid,
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: they do.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: So I ordered this right when I was in Italy.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: I think it was in February when you came on,
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: and when I returned in mid March it was here.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: And this is a a lean book, sourced by chapter,
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's it's impressive, So kudos, sir.
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: I appreciate it. Thank you well that that book as well.
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: It's really just to give give the overview of it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: It's it's how the Oswald shooting took place, because I
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: think I've said in other conversations that we've had, it's
• 10:25
  Speaker 6: it was just such a it's always been just such
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: a you know, taken for granted, you know, black and
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: white kind of case. And Will Ruby got into the
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: the got into the basement somehow, maybe he snuck down
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: past Roy Vaughan, you know, just simply down the ramp,
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: or he was let in, you know, I was depicted
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: in the movie JFK. But yeah, it's it's pretty straightforward.
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: But I mean, everything that is in my book is
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: it's all it's all publicly accessible information, and I really
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: came across a lot of it when I was putting
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: together as the index of the Garrison folders. So it's
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: kind of everything that you've got in there is how
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: the shooting was either allowed to take place or was
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: a really neat set up. So anyway, one of the
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: questions I leave at the end of the shooting was
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: was just some some open questions about you know, acknowledging
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: some people, the researchers saying that maybe it wasn't Jack
• 11:26
  Speaker 6: Ruby who actually shot Le Harveil, which you know, it
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: sounds like it's a bit of a yeah, a bit
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: of a bit of a bit of a contentious and
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: outlandish proposition. But you know that that question, even after
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: putting the book out and even coming to Dallas to
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: talk about it, and you know, many numerous conversations I've
• 11:43
  Speaker 6: had since, it really to me and it seems like
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: it's actually not such a crazy question. And I know
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: it was when we were lasked when I was last
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: on that I think it was your podcast, So I
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: actually started saying, I'm I'm actually looking into it a
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: little bit more because you know, there's there's actually some
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: some pretty good, pretty pretty big questions and reasons to
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: to to actually to actually question if it really was
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby he shot Oswald. So really, what I've done
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: since then has put out a sixth series article on
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: my substack. It's free for anyone to check out. There's
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: some diagrams on there, and you know it's easy to
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: listen to as well. You know, that's a really cool
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: feature of substack. And I literally just lay out the
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: all of the evidence in terms of Jack Ruby's movements
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: across November the twenty fourth, because even even where he
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: was early that morning is incredibly debatable, you know, it's crazy,
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: like he's he's got You've got people at the City
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: Hall saying that Jack Ruby was loitering outside there as
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: early as eight o'clock that morning and he shared a
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: shared a lift with Ray Ray Rushing, you know, from
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: from grand Parent Prairie, who you know. We've got all
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: these retrospective, retrospective identifications of Jack Ruby, you know, after
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: the shooting by people who didn't know him. But you know,
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: when when obviously his image was everywhere, you know, all
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: these identifications came up to say, oh yeah, Jack Ruby
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: stuck his head in the news truck that we were
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: working in, you just outside city Hall, asking if Oswald's
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: been brought down and all of that kind of stuff.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: But then at the same time, you know, he's his
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: roommates and fellow tenants at his apartment block over in
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: Oak Cliff to say he was there till anywhere between
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: quarter past ten and ten thirty that Sunday morning, and
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: you know, it was a fairly routine morning for him.
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: He got up, he had breakfast, he took some phone calls.
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: So that's that's really what I've done in this whole
• 13:55
  Speaker 6: series is go right, let's just get right down to.
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: You know, if you think I get down into the
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: detail in my book, I go into even more detail
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: about the the the evidence for where Ruby was early
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: in that morning. So really what what I what I
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: found was the Karen Carlin phone call was was a
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: really important event that took place that morning.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: The story goes is that she she needed money from
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby because he closed the clubs down in Dallas
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: out of respect for for President Kennedy passing, and you know,
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden his employees were out of work.
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: So that was the basis for her needing money. So
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: her and her husband Bruce Carlin contacted Jack Ruby on
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: the early earlier the night before and he said, yeah,
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: I'll come down to the club. I'll arrange to be
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: there or I'll have some money left for words to
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: that effect. Jack. When they got down to the Carrousel Club,
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby wasn't there, but apparently they were able to
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: get five dollars from Huey Reeves, who was like running
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: the garage next door on Commerce Street near Jack. Jack
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: Ruby's Carrousel Club may have been, may have even been
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: next door. So we've got paper evidence of Huey Reeves
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: writing five dollars receipt five dollar payment payable to Jack Ruby.
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: So you know this Huey Reeves has given the Carlins
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: five dollars on Ruby's behalf. So I go into that
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: level of detail, and what I found pretty quickly was,
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: you know, these phone calls that were meant to have happened.
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: You know, Jack Ruby receiving these phone calls or phone
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: call from Karen Carlin the next day, you know, apparently
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: asking him, so I was saying that she would need
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: even more. There's no records of them. So really really
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: interesting thing happened the FBI when they really launched into
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: this investigation. What they did was they pulled pulled Bruce
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: Carlin's phone records. So I went from his house in
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: Fort Worth and they only they only pulled his phone
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: records per the billing cycle, So apparently it was like
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: from the twenty first of September until the twenty first
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: of November, they were the only phone records that they pulled.
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: And then the next the next set of phone records
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: that they've got access for of Bruce Carlin's started on
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: the twenty fifth of November. So they've really conveniently somehow
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: missed missed out this the weekend's worth of phone calls
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: from Bruce Carlin's phone in Fort Worth, which I suppose
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: you don't really care what phone calls he was making
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: on the day of the assassination, even the twenty third Saturday.
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: But someday morning, if that's where Karen Carlem's supposed to
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: have made this really really important phone call to Jack
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: Ruby that morning, that would give him the reason to
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: go down to Dallas and be on the same block
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: as Dallas City Hall jail and then get the urge
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: to shoot Jack Ruby. Well, why don't we have record
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: of that that phone conversation? It was there, was never pulled,
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: and it's it's nowhere to be found anywhere even to
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: this day. So that's that's kind of the the the
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: really the point of this series is just questioning all
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: of the evidence that was used, really in a really
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: quick way to build this this narrative of of Jack
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: Ruby's movements that obviously led him to be in Dallas
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: City Hall basement at the time of the Oswald shooting.
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: Really interesting. Yeah, sorry, you go, No, I'm.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: Saying, definitely a convenient three days to be missing those.
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: Call logs, right, yeahtand I was never never produced. There's
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: still not out there. So yeah, no explanation, no reason given.
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: So the other interesting thing thing I found, and it's
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: in my article, is that you know, there was a
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: list of you know, all the tenants at the apartment
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: complex where Jack Ruby was, you know, staying in out
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: George Senator is his room mate. You know, it's got
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: and I've actually got it loaded on a thumb drive
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: if I can share my screen. If not, it's no
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: big deal. But it's basically a list of all the
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: tenants that were in that complex. And you know, you
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: see two O seven Jack Ruby, that was his apartment
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: two eight vacant. It actually wasn't vacant, it was it
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: was a police an active police officer was living there
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: at the time. Fred Sex Hour that's Fred Sex s
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: e X A U E R. And he was interviewed
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: and everything about his movements on the day of of
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: the Oswald shooting. Apparently he was a god fearing man.
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: He was at church on that Sunday morning, so he
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: didn't see anything of Jack Ruby, no mention of any
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: late night meeting you know later on that night, you know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: with George Senator having you know Tom Howard and Jim
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: Martin and you know a couple of our town reporters
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: that would that would oh cool? Thanks, Yeah, let me
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: let me bring this up.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: He wasn't wasn't in the basement as well, right, who's.
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: The guy who the police officer? No, he wasn't. No, no,
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: so he was at church. He was off duty that day.
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: Fred sex Our. I think he's still alive. I've I've
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: I've tried tried reaching out too. Who I think he
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: is sending an email to a random random person named
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: for sex Sow. Maybe that's him or not, but just
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: to see but the dates of this person that i've
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: i've found in the United States is still alive. Tally's
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: tallies with Fred sex Hour as well at former former
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: Dallas police officers. So let me just get my screen ready. Yeah, yeah,
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: so it's you know, all these all things which you
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: know again, why why was that? Why was that left out?
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: To have window? Here we go, got it? Why why
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: was such a detail left out? Hopefully you guys can
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: see my screen.
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: Yep, I got to now hang on cool? Cool, there
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: you go, thanks, thanks man.
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: So, yeah, I've just got on there a document that
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: lays out the you know, the people that were initially
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: reached out to, and you can see Jack Ruby, he
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: was in apartment two seven as the ten name and
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: below vacant. It wasn't vacant, it was fred Sexaer and
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: it was actually an apartment that police officers, you know,
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: have stayed at. There were there were two others that
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: were there until about six weeks before before the shooting,
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: and they moved to the same address somewhere else, literally
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: down the road. So there's these funny, funny little things
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: that you know, it's kind of just just been I
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: guess overlooked that maybe paints a bit of a bit
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: of a picture. So I'll just show you to share
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: the whole screen that's still coming through as a rob Yes, yes, cool, cool.
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: So yeah, that's that's really really the basis for starting
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: the article, for me.
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: To ask you a question.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it looks like there's a lot of apartments in
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: this building, right, what a dozen a floor? Maybe I
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: don't know, I'm not going to count, but were any
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: others of these people in this building law enforcement?
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: Not that I could tell no, no, no, it's a
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: good question and maybe should be looking into a little
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: bit more because again, you know, just by running those
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: names through through Mary Ferrell, the only context that we
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: have is for this document. You know that these people
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: were contacted to ask, you know, their impressions of Jack
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: Ruby and did they see him on the morning of
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: the Oswald shooting, Malcolm Slaughter, Jack Scritchfield there on there
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: they Malcolm Slaughter in particular, he did and sorry, Sydney,
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: I can't quite make out his name. Sidneys Evans, thank you.
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: Here's in my article. Malcolm, Malcolm Slaughter, and Sidney Evans
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: were interviewed and apparently they did at least Slaughter did
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: see Jack Ruby, and Sidney Evans testified to Malcolm Slaughter
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: seeing Jack Ruby. So yeah, we've got that's about as
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: far as it goes. So really, I mean, look, was
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby the his apartment at this time? It's probably
• 23:02
  Speaker 6: pretty reasonable to say he was. You know, people that
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: knew him and knew of him testified that that he was.
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: He was there until at least ten thirty. George Senator
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: was always pretty pretty straightforward about that at least. So yeah,
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: that's that's kind of on the apartment side of things.
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: But then moving on to the actual let me let
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: me take you on to the next slide we have.
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: I'm starting to get into the territory of comparing images
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: of Jack Ruby. So you know, we've got Jack Ruby
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: there on the left. You know that this was him
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: as he was on the on the day of the
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: afternoon of the shooting. So we can see Jack Ruby
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: there on the left and this this person on the
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: on the on the right. If you ask Google even now,
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: they say that's Jack Ruby. A bit of a pop
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: quiz for you guys, what do you think it was
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: a little like Jack Ruby to you?
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: My no, it's been identified as Jack Ruby throughout the years.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: But to me, that hair that hairline is way off.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Man. Yeah, and the those to me doesn't really match
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: very well.
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: You know, right, It's quite so could this have been
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: the person? Jack Ruby? Was clearly at City Hall that weekend?
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: You know, he was hustling interviews on behalf of Reporters
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: with Henry Wade. You know, he took he took sandwiches
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: and bottles of Coca cola and whatnot. He was there,
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: he was handing out his business card like pappus. You know,
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: I gotta gotta he was a reporter. He gotta gotta
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: the Coursel Club card from from Jack Ruby. So there's
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: no doubt he was at City Hall, and he was
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: at the press conference call. Yeah, no problems. And I'm
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: even happy to say there was him the corrected Henry Wade,
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: you know, when he when he misspoke about you know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: the fair Player for Cuba committee. So that's fine, that's
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: not the thing the purview of this series. But I
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: just I just bring this image up because you know,
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: if we're talking about how Jack Ruby was retrospectively identified
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: by a hell of a lot of people that day,
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: you know, is someone like this floating about who's clearly
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: in city Hall? You can see the image, you know,
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: and we've got a bit of a time, you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: time proof of time, you know, the the newspaper in
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: the background there, Kennedy Slaine on Dallas Street. You know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: you can see that there. So that's clearly someone who's
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: looking like Jack Ruby hanging out in City Hall. So
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: you know, when we talk about these retrospective identifications, you know,
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: we've we've we've got someone there that looks pretty bloody
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: close to you know, the real Jack Ruby if it
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: wasn't him. So yeah, I'd just like to bring that
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: up because you know, when I'm talking about the you know,
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: the news truck, you know, the guys out the front
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: who you know, said that a scruffy looking man who
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: they later identified as Jack Ruby, stuck the head in
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: the window and asked if I was well, was the
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: transferred started? It could have been someone who looked like
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: this guy on the right, That's all I'm saying to me.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: It seems like he's just built a lot skinnier than
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby. Ye, just broad you know, back and shoulders
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: and neck.
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but you're right, it's the hairline for me as well,
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: actually doesn't have any hair on the top of he's
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: had this guy whereas Jack Ruby he did. He wasn't
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: fully bold or anything.
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: Like that, you know.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: So yeah, that's.
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: Did they give him a call over.
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: Over there?
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: Issues have issues with that, doesn't I'm not convinced.
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah so, But but again, this is this is like
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: so many elements of not just the you know, the
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: shooting will as well, but you know that the case,
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: you know, this is an image that's been taken for
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: for granted, oh that's just Jack Ruby, but without closely
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: looking at it with a sensible lens, because I mean
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: I start off the article saying, I'm really not too
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: bothered if it was Jack Ruby he shopped you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: Oswald or not. I'm just questioning the evidence because unfortunately,
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: because of the way the investigations were handled at the time,
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: and you know, the way the mainstream media just swept
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: in and you know, did half of the half of
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: the Warrent Commission's work for them, maybe a little bit more.
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: And ever since you know, these these this this level
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: of scrutiny is kind of Yeah, it's been for bootn
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: So yeah, bring it back up. So the next part
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: of the series, I focus on the Western Union transfer
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: because that itself when we look at the evidence, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: I don't know if you guys know too much about that,
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: but you know, the story went that Doyle Lane, he
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: was the supervisor, who was you know, you know, serving
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: customers that morning. He was a supervisor. Apparently he was
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: only at the counter because i've the workers were having
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: their lunch break at eleven o'clock on a Sunday morning
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: for some reason. And the story goes from Doyle Lane
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: because only ever spoke I think three times about this
• 28:13
  Speaker 6: critical event. He testified to the Warrant Commission and the FBI,
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: I think, and sorry the Dallas police, but you can't
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: find Doyle Lane. He was the Western Union worker who
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: took the transfer, sorry, who handled the transfer of Jack Ruby,
• 28:34
  Speaker 6: sending twenty five dollars to Karen Carlin. So yeah, look again,
• 28:40
  Speaker 6: the story on the surface appears pretty straightforward. But again
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: when you look at the evidence, you read Doyle Lane's summaries,
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: he never saw Jack Ruby enter the Western Union office.
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: It's kind of like you always just only appeared in
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: there after Doyle Lane had finished serving the customer before
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: you know whoever he was serving when Jack Ruby appeared
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: in the office. Now that strange and unto itself because
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: this person was never identified. There was never any attempt
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: to find out who this person was to substantiate that,
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: you know, Jack Ruby, you know who would soon become
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: very famous, walked into the office behind her and all
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: of that. There was no attempts to identify who this
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: woman was. But nonetheless, Doyle Lane had it that Jack
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: Ruby just appeared, appeared at the counter and gave I'll
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: show you this on this screen here. This was the
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: pre filled form that Jack Ruby basically just presented to
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: Doyle Lane. So we say pre filled. It's all of this.
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: This bit in here in the yellow square, that's all
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: anyone at the time had to fill out to like,
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: you know, initiate a Western Union transfer. So you can
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: see on there it says twenty five dollars Aaron Bennett.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: Bennett's misspelled and technically because she was married to Bruce Cuhen,
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: it should have been Karen Carlin or Karen Bennett Carlin.
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: And then we'll fought with there's a reference to Fort Worth,
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: We'll call and it's from Jack Ruby. So what I've
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: got up on the screen here is so this this
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: was the form that Doyle Lane. Never saw Jack Ruby write,
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: you know at the counter. It's like he walked in
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: and had it ready to go. But this is actually
• 30:28
  Speaker 6: Jack a copy of Jack Ruby's actual writing. I know,
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: we can you know, it's possible for people to write
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: in different styles, but just you know, for shits and giggles,
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: here's Jack Ruby's actual writing versus what was attributed to
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: him when he was initiating the form. You can see
• 30:47
  Speaker 6: it's a little bit different. The rest of the writing
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: on this docket is Doyle Lane's, so you can see
• 30:53
  Speaker 6: him working out twenty five dollars has got to be sent.
• 30:56
  Speaker 6: I think that was like an eighty five cent you know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: surcharge here in another tax there kind of thing. So
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: all up, Jack Ruby had to pay twenty six dollars
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: and eighty seven cents to send to send the money
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: to Karen Carlin. So yeah, this, this is this is
• 31:11
  Speaker 6: just comparing that the money. The reason I do this
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: as well is that Doyle Lane said I didn't need
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: to take any identification from Jack Ruby because I just
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: recognized him as a as a as a customer, I
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: knew who he was. Well, okay, if that was If
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: that was the case, well then where where where is
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: the you know where where where was the record of
• 31:32
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby using the Western Union for any other business
• 31:35
  Speaker 6: prior transfer or sending a telegram or whatever. There never
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: was any was it even looked for. There's some reference
• 31:43
  Speaker 6: to it, I think in the in one of the
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: maybe the warrant report, but there was there was never any,
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: never any anything uncovered to say, yeah, Jack Ruby was
• 31:56
  Speaker 6: actually a solid regular customer of the Western Union that
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: Doyle and would recognize therefore not need to take the
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: identification of So well, again.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: Was this a stand alone like Western Union office or
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: was this like like.
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: Now, like, yeah, it's a good question. Yeah it was, yeah, yeah,
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: standalone Western Union office. And I had that question asked
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: to me last year. Were there any other Western Union
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: offices open that that morning that Jack Ruby could have
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: gone to, you know, instead of having to come into
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: the city. It wasn't wasn't a long drive for him,
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: especially on a Sunday morning, would have been no more
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: than fifteen minutes, maybe even less. But no, that there
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: were there weren't any other Western Union offices that would
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: have been open, you know, for like the further normal
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: trading hours. And yes, that there were Western Union counters
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: in stores. Yeah, so yeah you kind of like a
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: you know, you might have a post postage desk within
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: ably or something like that. Well, no, this this was
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: a standalone Western Union office that that Ruby walked into.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: Mhm and and.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: Paul one question because like I'm thinking Devil's advocate, right,
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: If Ruby, say, was in the routine of sending money
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: to some of his workers during some point, you can
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: imagine him having a stack of the forums on the left,
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: maybe in his apartment or something. But then how do
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: you not spell the name of the person who's going
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: to claim the money, right Bennett.
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah again yeah, your your your your your
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: question is a good question that you know, there's no
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: clear answer for. Again, we all make spelling mistakes when
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: we write, and sometimes we write differently for you know,
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: you know on formal documents, some people might write in
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: upper case, whereas you know Jack Ruby's was cursive on
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: that that example on the on the right there. So yeah,
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: so again I'm not not fixed to a particular scenario.
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: But what this presents, this this evidence gap, if you like,
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: or the gaps in this evidence that we're going through now,
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: is the potential that maybe it was someone else standing
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: in as Jack Ruby that to come in and initiate
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: this transfer. It's it's possible possible.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: Do you know, do you know if the Dallas authorities
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: or the FBI went to say, any other Western Unions
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: and inquired about them sending.
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: Money, No, I don't. I mean the fact that the
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: so the money, that the transfer actually took place. Because
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: we've got Jesse Strong who was over at the Western
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: Union Fort Worth office. He testified and it seems pretty
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: straightforward that the Carlins came in at about one o'clock
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: that same afternoon and collected the transfer. So no real
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: dispute that a transfer took place, but who who initiated
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: It's not so concrete that it was it was Jack Ruby.
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: You know, there's there's the possibility that was someone standing
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: in for him. So you have really the next thing
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: I'm getting onto. Let me, let me move on, because
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: there's a hell of a lot more. Was there anything
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: more you guys wanted to talk about the Western Union
• 35:38
  Speaker 6: side of things?
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, I don't. I don't make that document either, Paul.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It looks a little suss me.
• 35:44
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we are.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: We are a hand rating signature analysis.
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: That's so what I get onto next is obviously questioning
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: how Jack Ruby got in, and I don't. I feel
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: like I probably don't need to go into this into
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: too much detail because yeah, there's there's the lack of witnesses,
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: credible witnesses stating that Ruby simply walked along. So let
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: me show you on this map, this is Main Street
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: up here. If we keep on going off this map,
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: you know the Western Union would have been about here.
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: So you know, the official story was that Jack Ruby
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: simply trundled along Main Street around about here. On the
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: other side, of Main Street was Don Flush who knew
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby but never saw him that day anywhere along
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: Main Street or any other time. So he was watching
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: this area and never saw Jack Ruby walking past him
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: on the other side of the road, keeping on going.
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: Roy Vaughan was here, Napoleon Daniels was here. Napoleon Daniels
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: was kind of who was leaned on initially, in particular
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: to say that, you know, he saw someone walking down
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: the ramp who wasn't wearing a hat that could have
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: been Jack Ruby, and he backtracked and failed a lie
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: detective test and it really just couldn't couldn't string a coherent,
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: you know, logical sentence together at most points, contradicted himself.
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: And then you've got the taxi driver, Harry Tasker. So
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: before he was in true lies, he was he was
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: over here park parked up keeping the meter running for
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: one of the out of town reporters, and he was
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: watching this whole area, and he never saw anyone walk
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: down the Main Street ramp. And probably most importantly, he
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: backed up Roy Vaughan saying he never left the ramp
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: the opening of the ramp, because that was the other
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: thing that Daniel said was that Vaughan actually walked out
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: onto the street to let this car, the Sam Pierce
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: driven car leave up the ramp. Roy Vaughan, it was
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: said that he walked right out into the middle of
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: Main Street and so the car could simply slip out
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: onto Main Street. And that's when Jack Ruby, according to Daniels,
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: took his opportunity to just simply slip down the ramp
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: all that stuff. But yeah, again, that's incredibly, incredibly unlikely
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: that Jack Ruby actually walked down the Main Street ramp.
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: What I've got highlighted over here, so Joe, you know,
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: this is where we had our photo with the other guys.
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: We were probably standing about here, and this is that
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: outer door of the annex building next door. That's where
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: I was, yep, and we looked in and we could
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: see the back of the elevator or the elevator at
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: the time. That was the other other way that Jack
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: Ruby could have entered through that door, through the elevator
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: and downstairs and simply let out through the basement. So
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: these are kind of like the most workable hypotheses that
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: you know, the HSCA acknowledged. But the reason I've got
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: this ramp up as well is that I wanted to
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: talk about the fact that there were no witnesses in
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: the basement that testified seeing Jack Ruby before the shooting,
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: which when we think about that is absolutely incredible. He
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: was even where he was at the start of the shooting,
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: he was surrounded by people like Kenneth Croy who knew
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby. Charles Arnett, the captain for the Reserve Police,
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: he knew Jack Ruby, like Pappus, looked directly where Jack
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: Ruby would have been as he was getting into position
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: holding his microphone and tape recorder. Pappus, you know, like
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: I said earlier, he got the He had a memorable
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: account to you know, if you believe his YouTube, you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: the videos on YouTube and these the press that he
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: did later. He met Jack Ruby that weekend, So he
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: looking right in his direction as he's getting into position,
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: surely would have seen this man that he knew was
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby standing there. He didn't. Charles Blackie Harrison knew
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby for like twelve years at the time and
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: never never said that he saw Jack Ruby get into position,
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: which wouldn't have been such a big because Jack Ruby
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: was a it was a you know, it was a
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: police groupie. He wouldn't have been so out of place,
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: especially for City Hall earlier that weekend, you know, crashing
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: the press conference and all that. So why was nobody
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: willing to testify to seeing Jack Ruby there in the
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: basement where all the the center of the action was.
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: It wouldn't have been such a big deal. Seth Cantor,
• 40:24
  Speaker 6: he never testified to seeing Jack Ruby, and he was
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: right across the way. If my screens still up, you
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: can see on the map where Seth Cantor would have been.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: Rob took it down for a second. Rob, can you
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: put up mine for just one slide, please, because I
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: think this will give the audience a little better clarity
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: through the bars on the left, that's the main street entrance,
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: and that's the ramp.
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: Right yep, that's right, yep, So that's that then yeah, no,
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: go ahead, No that no, that that's good. So that's
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: what what what we're looking down at is the ramp
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: that Ruby would have would have been, Yeah, what what
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: would have walked down according to the Warrant Commission. And
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: the yellow door is where just kind of where you've
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: taken that picture is where Roy Vaughan was standing at
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: the top of the ramp. Yeah, that's good. You can
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: see how low the ceiling is, you know, at the
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: bottom of the round. Uh m hmm, hold on, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: So and then this is when you look through these
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: little two vertical windows here you see the elevator.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: Which is what.
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: You were talking with, missus Jess Canell. So yeah, I
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: just wanted to give that perspective.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: Robbie.
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: Thanks, that's good, thank you. So yeah. Really, just a
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: big startling thing for me was the fact that nobody
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: saw Jack Ruby post the shooting, and even recollections, you know,
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: when we think about you know, the you know, the
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: the amount of media that were present, you know, a
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: lot of them in their testimonies they said, oh we
• 42:30
  Speaker 6: we we heard pretty quickly that Jack Ruby was the shooter,
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: you know, so again we don't don't have people seeing
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby before the shooting. Unfortunately, our view and most
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: people's view of the shooter was from behind. And then
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden, as we know, both Ruby and
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: Oswell Well covered over very quickly, and Ruby was the
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: shooter was literally covered over by Lewis Miller with that garment,
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: you know, and then are all hustled, hustled away back
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: into the jail office. Just to give orientation. The shooting
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: took place right here. Mellow, mellow, melee. Everyone, Oswald and
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: Ruby are brought back into the jail office. So Oswald
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: would have been taken in there first because Oswald was
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: actually kind of put down, you know, lay laid down
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: here and apparently given resuscitation in this part of the jail,
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: and Ruby was about here, So that's that's kind of
• 43:30
  Speaker 6: where it was all concentrated in after the shooting. But
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: if I just I'm just going to go go to
• 43:37
  Speaker 6: the next and by the way, if anyone's wondering what
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: this background is, I don't know if I had this
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: at the time when we last bike, but this is
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: probably the only only image of the the eastern end
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: of the of the car park what we can see here,
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: and it was literally one of the cameras, you know
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: that You imagine the cameras that were filming the shooting,
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: what they did. They literally swung around and filmed behind them.
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: So what you can see here is I reckon this
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: is either Gano. It's most likely Gano Whirley, who was
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: one of the reserve officers that was directed away from
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: that location within half an hour of Oswald emerging because
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: he was there to guard these elevators. This whole area
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: action this is.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: Arrows. No no, no, no.
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: So this is so we're basically now got our back
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: looking at this image. We've got our back to where
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: Oswald walked out from. Yeah, so this is where I'm
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: saying that or you know, the most likely way if
• 44:42
  Speaker 6: it was Jack Ruby that left the Western Union office
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: and needed to get into the basement within four minutes,
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: this is most likely where he would have emerged out of.
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: This is that you can just see it here beyond
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: the pillar. This is the doorway that leads to the
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: Annex building up at the top, and so you can
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: see how close this was. Yeah, that's right, man, the stairwell,
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: the door that the door that couldn't lock because it
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: was an emergency exit for the building above. So what
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: you've got here is the service elevator which went up
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: to the Annex building, and you've obviously got the public
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: you know, the you know, I guess the norm elevators
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: which went up and down, sorry, up to the as
• 45:24
  Speaker 6: far as the fifth floor of the Annex building. And
• 45:26
  Speaker 6: this is the stairwell. So if it was Ruby that
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: used this way to get into the basement, you know,
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: because he was at the Western Union or whether whether
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: it was or not, and he needed to get in,
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: this is most likely the way that this is the
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: door that you know myself, John Armstrong, people like that,
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: and even the h c A thought was probably the
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: most likely way. So yeah, I'll just show that image
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: because it's literally the only the only the image we
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: actually have of of that area, which which is really interesting.
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: So moving on to the next boop. Now let me
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: show you this. So this is like literally the side
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: on image of you know, the seconds before Oswald emerges.
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: So I point out here this is like pappus, you know,
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: the reporter that got the card for the Carousel Club
• 46:15
  Speaker 6: from Jack Ruby that earlier that weekend. He've got Blackie Harrison,
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: who's knew who we all know is the guy the
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: bloke that put the cigar to his mouth as Ruby's
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: about to or has just shot Oswald in the Jackson photograph.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: You've got the unidentified Japanese reporter here, and then you've
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: got Kenneth croy right there. Old make Kenneth Croye areas
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: and within a second, this is Jack Ruby kind of
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: sliding in to obscure Kenneth Croy while who has always
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: been again ascribed as Jack Ruby. So I'll leave that
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: with you on your audience just for a couple of
• 46:53
  Speaker 6: seconds to have a look at. But again, to me,
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: does that resemble Jack Ruby? Do you guys?
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: I mean it kind of probably.
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: It's probably closer than that other image. I know, you know,
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: the nose again is a little bit different, the sideburns
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: are differently, definitely different there. Yeah, but I'd probably say
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: it's a closer resemblance to Jack Ruby. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: that's right. Yeah yeah, but yeah, moving on to the
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: next next version. So this is a colorized version of
• 47:33
  Speaker 6: the colorized photograph of the shooting. I just like this
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: because what it does is it shows shows how clean
• 47:39
  Speaker 6: shaven Jack Ruby's neck here is all of a sudden,
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: And again this is colorized, so it's not it's probably
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: not the best that we don't know how obviously how
• 47:51
  Speaker 6: authentic this was because it was originally a black and
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: white photograph. But you know, it's interesting to show the
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: difference between hair and skin, you know, just in this
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: particular context. But this is probably the meat and potatoes
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: of of the you know, the point of of what
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: I'm what I'm getting at the moment of the shooting.
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: So here we have the Bob Jackson photograph. This is
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: the full version of the photograph. So you got Blackie
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: Harrison putting the cigar to his mouth as he's trying
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: to stop Jack Ruby from shooting Oswald. You've you've got
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: Tom Pettittt the news reporter there looking on no no,
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: no microphone, which was which is strange because literally in
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: every other image and even the film footage of the shooting,
• 48:34
  Speaker 6: you can see a microphone hanging down right about where
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: my mouse cursor is there not there clearly, And I
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: just zoo him in again just to show the difference
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: between Jack Ruby's rare neck hairline, you know, this is
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: his mug shot later that afternoon, compared to firstly the
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: hairline and how rounded, you know, the hairline on this
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: on this particular figure looks so and even the sideburns
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: you know here as well, you know, and thick and bushy.
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: You know, to me, that does not resemble these two
• 49:09
  Speaker 6: do not resemble the same people. So I know we're
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: probably getting into our sink territory there, but you know,
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: I don't. It's it's again. I'm just looking at the evidence.
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: I don't I don't care if this if it was
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: James book out I've seen in the chat some people
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: are saying, Sam Ruby. Cool, let's it Sam Ruby. Let's
• 49:28
  Speaker 6: let's see a photograph of him.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: You know, let's take a look at Sam Ruby real quick.
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, please? Yeah, because everybody.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: Says he looked just like Jack Ruby. Well, uh not really.
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: Look at this. I know it's taken later on in life.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, this picture I'm about to show you of Earl
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Sam and Ava his brother's sister.
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah cool, and and some dude with a jew fro.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: I don't know who he is.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: He's not a Ruby, though, you understand when I show
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you the picture. Uh, I gotta share my screen first,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: might help.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Let's see.
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: Okay, here we go.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: You're working with a lot of screens there.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: Roll. Yeah, all right.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: So Earl Ruby is the dude at the bottom right corner. Yep,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Sam Ruby is the is the guy besides to do
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: with the j fro and the green shirt.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: I do not see it, do you. I don't see it.
• 50:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, No, that's cool. That's not the same person the
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: way looking there?
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: There we go, There we go. Yeah.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: So this this guy right here is Sam Ruby, and
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: he's got way too much hair, even in an older
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: age to be mm hmmo.
• 50:55
  Speaker 6: Even the noise. I mean, I know we're looking front tone,
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: but you can tell that's a pretty pretty It's not
• 51:03
  Speaker 6: not a curved, curved nose, you know, like the side
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: profile of the guy that we showed earlier. No, one hundred.
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: It can't be definitive, I know, but just with what
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: we're looking at, I don't see it. But I'm glad.
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: I'm glad you showed that photo because that's yeah, that's
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: first I've seen them. But thank you. But my point is,
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: I'm with this article. I didn't set out to prove
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: one way or another if it was Jack Ruby, you know,
• 51:29
  Speaker 6: who was shot or not. I'm literally just laying out
• 51:32
  Speaker 6: in the evidence.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: So when it comes to Jack Ruby's mug shots, yeah,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: he had several. Are we sure that this image was
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: taken the same day?
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes, I am. I'm sure as I can be.
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: Are you saying you think of the one where he's
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: looking at the camera and he's looking incredibly just rest Well, there's.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: That one, and there's also one where we have a
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: full body shot of him and in the white outfit.
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and he's, uh the trouser legs pinched up a
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: little bit at the bottom. Yeah, that that's that's taken
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: the same time. Yeah, if he's got it. But yeah,
• 52:20
  Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure it was taken at the same time.
• 52:23
  Speaker 6: The one where he's looking at the camera and he's
• 52:26
  Speaker 6: it looks like he's in real anguish. That that was
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: taken in sixty four or sixty five. Yeah, might might
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: have been after Lewis Jolly got after him, you know,
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: and scrambled his brain more, who knows, Jolly West interesting
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: But no, thanks to showing that Sam Ruby image because again,
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: you know, whoever, if it wasn't Jack Ruby, whoever it was, well,
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: that's that's a that's another topic for you know, and
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: its own set of research. But all I'm saying is
• 52:59
  Speaker 6: how sure can we be that it was Jack Ruby,
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: considering no one saw him enter down in the basement,
• 53:05
  Speaker 6: and you know, there was no one that saw him
• 53:07
  Speaker 6: walk down that ramp. He was surrounded by people that
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: knew him, yet none said yeah, Jack Ruby was there,
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: And I thought it was a little bit weird, but
• 53:14
  Speaker 6: I certainly wasn't expecting him to shoot you step out
• 53:17
  Speaker 6: and shoot Oswald. You know that that would have been
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: perfectly fine for anybody to say, but no one did.
• 53:23
  Speaker 6: So Yeah, that leads me to think, Okay, well, was
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: it really Jack Ruby that the actually stepped out and
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: shot Oswald? And the other thing that we really need
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: to focus on, and it's kind of come to light
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: with this whole time. You know, Tyler Robinson Charlie Kirk
• 53:39
  Speaker 6: shooting is you know, because there's correlations between that case
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: and even even Oswald shooting. Was that when we never
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: there was never any kind of forensic examination of the
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: revolver that Jack Ruby used to shoot Lee Javey Oswald,
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: or the cartridge, the spent cartridge, or even the bullet
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: that was pulled out of Oswald. There was it was
• 54:00
  Speaker 6: never physically forensically traced to Jack Ruby. So without without
• 54:06
  Speaker 6: physical evidence, there was never a case against Jack Ruby either.
• 54:09
  Speaker 6: But somehow they made it stick. So the how that
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: went was that obviously the bullet was pulled some kind
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: of bullet was pulled out of Oswald after the autopsy,
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: and apparently Jim Levell said to Audrey Bell, the attending nurse,
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: scratch your scratch your initials on the bullet. We need to,
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: we need to you know, it's a chain of custody
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: or whatever. And so the bullet, the cartridge and everything
• 54:39
  Speaker 6: like that, apparently even the revolver, it was all introduced
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: into Jack Ruby's trial. And but I'm sorry, not the
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: not the revolver, just the bullet and the cartridge. And
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: the only person that we can rely on for that
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: is an assistant district attorney, William Alexander. It's like it
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: was referred to in the trial if you read the transcript,
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: but there was never any you know, there was no
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: the forensic scientists or anything like that saying yes, this
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: bullet definitely matched the revolver, because the Revolver stayed in
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: Henry Wade's filing cabinet right from the moment of the shooting,
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: or very close to until after Jack Ruby died, and
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: only then was it released to his executor, and who
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: obviously went on and sold it. And you know it's
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: been sold a few times since. So, yeah, the Revolver
• 55:31
  Speaker 6: wasn't even tied to Ruby. So when we consider that,
• 55:34
  Speaker 6: it's like really good, one hundred percent sure it was
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby that shot as well.
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: Uh, and correctly if I'm wrong, Paul. Wasn't the gun
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: given to what was it Decker or Fritz at the
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: hospital by was it Elsie Greaves?
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: I think so.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, which is weird.
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Greg Graves definitely had it. He because obviously it
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: was him that wrestled wrestled it out of the shooter's
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: hands right there and then it's the scene. But yeah,
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: just just to kind of hand it over like that. Yeah,
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure. I think I think it would have
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: been Fritz. It wouldn't he wouldn't give it to wouldn't
• 56:16
  Speaker 6: have given it to Decker because he was obviously the sheriff.
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: It was out of department. But yeah, chain of custody,
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: where was it? You know, again we talked about see
• 56:25
  Speaker 6: three nine nine, you know, with the you know that
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: the stretch of bullet and whatnot, and it's just just
• 56:30
  Speaker 6: repeat again. It's it's amazing when when you really look
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: deep down into the Oswald shooting, it's like a micro
• 56:36
  Speaker 6: version of the assassination of President Kennedy. You know, it's
• 56:41
  Speaker 6: amazing you can.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: See him him being convicted by a jury. I mean,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: it's it's pretty much the most cut and dry case
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: in history, you know, in history.
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: I mean he got on you know, on film doing it.
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: You know, yeah, well that that's it.
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: And and then you'll need to make sure it came
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: from his gun. We don't need to make sure that
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: gun shot that bullet, you know what I mean. I
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: can't blame him.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's.
• 57:10
  Speaker 6: It's but the thing is as well, all you would
• 57:12
  Speaker 6: have needed was a whole bunch of words to be
• 57:14
  Speaker 6: put in Jack Ruby's mouth right after, and we had
• 57:18
  Speaker 6: that impact. Patrick Dean up on the fifth floor. He
• 57:21
  Speaker 6: attributed all these kind of statements to Jack Ruby, you know,
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: because and it was never quite legal. Apparently it should
• 57:29
  Speaker 6: have been thrown out at the trial because you know,
• 57:31
  Speaker 6: I had all these statements that you know, were alleged
• 57:35
  Speaker 6: to have been said by Jack Ruby. Ought to have
• 57:37
  Speaker 6: been in admissible in court because he hadn't been charged.
• 57:41
  Speaker 6: So all these things about saying allegedly came down the ramp,
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: you know, straight away, and you know, I saw Oswald's smirk,
• 57:49
  Speaker 6: and that's when I wanted to shoot him. And I
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: was so grief stricken, you know, I couldn't, couldn't as
• 57:55
  Speaker 6: the thought of But that's probably where I get to
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: the next interesting part of my series was Tom Howard.
• 58:02
  Speaker 6: Tom Howard was a very interesting character I refer to
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: in my book, but he's a whole other kettle offish man,
• 58:08
  Speaker 6: this this guy. So he was if I could take
• 58:12
  Speaker 6: you back to the you know, if if you want
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: to picture the map that I was showing, he was
• 58:16
  Speaker 6: actually standing outside the jail office before the shooting. He
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: was there. He was actually there as before Oswald was
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: led out, and he was even outside the jail office
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: as Oswald was marched through the jail office and out
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: to be shot. And it's a really weird thing because
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: he said he was there, and this is in the
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: FBI documentation as well. I was there to see one
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: of my clients up on the fifth floor jail. I
• 58:45
  Speaker 6: tried to use the elevator but it was engaged, so
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: I turned around and walked out. We have two detectives
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: that verify that Howard was there, and one of them
• 58:54
  Speaker 6: said that Tom Howard told him, no, I've seen everything
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: all I wanted to see. He was on his way
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: to see a client.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: What what what?
• 59:04
  Speaker 6: What couldn't get to him? What did he see that
• 59:06
  Speaker 6: he wanted to see? Now, this is where I get
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: into a little bit of you know, throw out something
• 59:13
  Speaker 6: a little bit interesting there. I think if it was,
• 59:17
  Speaker 6: if it wasn't Jack Ruby, that it was the shooter
• 59:20
  Speaker 6: house in the basement. I wonder if it Jack Ruby
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: was already in the jail office, because the first time
• 59:26
  Speaker 6: we actually see Jack Ruby convincingly is in footage of
• 59:29
  Speaker 6: him being marched across the jail office to go to
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: the elevator. You know, after the shooting, after all the chaos.
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: That's the first time we can convincingly say, yeah, that
• 59:39
  Speaker 6: that looks that's Jack Ruby. That's Jack Ruby. You know,
• 59:42
  Speaker 6: no worry about the hairline or side profile. You know
• 59:45
  Speaker 6: that we have this footage of through the jail office
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: window of Jack Ruby being marched through the jail to
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: get to the elevator.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: The reason I say that.
• 59:54
  Speaker 7: Is parked outside as well with dogs yep.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: So so he had to be somewhere around there.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 6: He had to be and he had to be on
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: the scene. Now, the reason I say this as well
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: is Jesse Curry. In nineteen seventy six, he gave an
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: interview to Seth Cantor for his book The Ruby Cover Up,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: and Jesse Curry said it would have been easy for
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby to have vented any number of ways, because
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: none of the City Hall doors were locked. He actually
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: said this to Seth cantor so Jack Ruby, even if
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: he walked all the way up Main Street, what Jesse
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: Curry is saying is he could have simply just walked
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: up the stairs into the City Hall via the main street,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 6: you know, the main entrance, and then just simply walked
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: down one of the public stairways to get to the basement. So,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 6: if that's the case, and maybe the Western Union Office
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: events didn't happen, and maybe Jack Ruby was simply told
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 6: or somehow induced or manipulated to just get to the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 6: City Hall and he was taken down to the basement office,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 6: could be possible that that's that's where maybe some kind
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 6: of switch out happened with the you know, the shooter
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: out in the basement with the real Jack Ruby in
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: the in the jail office. Because we have numerous police
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 6: saying that when Jack Ruby was was set upon, he
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 6: was told, he was saying, I'm Jack Ruby, what do
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: you guys?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: Do you know me?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: Why are you doing this? Why are you beating up
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: on me? And things like that, So could all of
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: that have actually taken place in the jail office where
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden, Jack Ruby was probably standing in there,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: whether he was riddled with you know, these stimulants that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: he was on and under some kind of trance or whatever.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 6: Could he then been set upon as the shooter of
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 6: Oswald out in the basement as a swapout, and then
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: from there on that was it, it was all, it
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 6: was all made to stick and stick with him. It's
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 6: a possibility that That's what I'm saying. And the reason
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 6: I bring that up now is because Tom Howard when
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 6: he looked through the jail office window and when he said, yeah,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 6: I've seen everything I wanted to see, could he have
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 6: been referring to making sure that Jack Ruby was in place?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: And I say that because Tom Howard, and this is
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 6: in my articles, he was instrumental in laying down the
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: actual narrative that the investigations would follow of Jack Ruby's
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 6: movements that day. I'll get to it in a second.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 6: I'll show you the actual document I'm referring to. He
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: got to speak, so this is Tom Howard. So he
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 6: got to speak to Jack Ruby. It would have been
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 6: I think around about one o'clock, maybe just after one o'clock,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 6: and he actually interviewed Jack Ruby being interviewed, Sorry he interrupted,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby being interviewed by an FBI agent. So FBI
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 6: agent Hall testified to getting a knock on the door
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: and saying, oh, Jack Ruby's lawyer wants to see him.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby was taken down to the fourth floor and
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: put into a room, and Tom Howard was there. Jack
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby never asked for a lawyer, and he's sure
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 6: as he'll never asked for Tom Howard, you know. So
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 6: Tom Howard, it's like he inserted himself into the into
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: the case as Jack Ruby's attorning. Now he had ten
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 6: minutes with Jack Ruby in this this first meeting. Now
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 6: it's possible that he could have given Jack Ruby this
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 6: you know what what what to tell the tell the authorities.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: You know, so you came down the ramp, say that
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 6: you were grief stricken, say that you know it was
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 6: a spur of the moment, you know, case all of
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 6: this kind of stuff. You know that that that's what
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 6: Tom Howard could have said those those dying minutes. And
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: the reason I say that is because Jack Ruby himself
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 6: told Joe Tonyhill and the eve of his trial, you know,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: in a few months time, in March that Tom Howard
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: gave him the whole narrative of what to tell the police,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 6: what to you know, that he was grief stricken and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 6: it was a spur of the moment thing. Jack Ruby
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 6: himself admitted that Tom Howard fed him what to say,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: So it could have been as early as that into
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 6: you know that ten minutes, you know, in the barely
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 6: a couple of hours after the shooting.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: The next document, Tom Howard was at the infamous meeting
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: on Sunday Ruby's apartment.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 6: As well, right, and he died within eighteen months, suspicious
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 6: a heart attack. But apparently that even that's not so
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 6: clear cut, so amazing. But this this document, I'm bringing
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 6: it up because this is this is you can see
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 6: at the top there conversation between Attorney Tom Howard Captain J. W. Fritz.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: It's like a two or three page document that basically
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 6: lays has Howard laying out to Captain Fritz. These were
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: Ruby's movements, you so, establishing, establishing the phone call. You
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 6: can see there Western transfer money, you know, a woman. Sorry,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: I'm just picking it up. Ruby was at his home
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 6: when he received a long distance telephone call from some
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 6: woman in Fort Worth who wanted Ruby to send her
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: some money. This is Howard telling Fritz the deal and
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: this it was. If you have a look at the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: time frame, the sixth of December, we're barely two weeks
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: after the shooting. It was after this point that that's when,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 6: you know, Doyle Lane came to the fore. You know,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: when when all the you know, the the investigations about
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 6: the apartment and Karen Carlin and all that, that's when
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: it was was launched.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: So this is all right, So this is an FBI document,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: all right, This is not coming from Fritz.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: This is the FBI saying what we overheard a conversation.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. So Tom Howard was
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: he was key, key for setting the narrative and even
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 6: on the day he was he was the first one
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 6: to tell them to make it public how Jack Ruby
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: supposedly entered the Main Street ramp down the basement. Jerry
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: o' leary, Stephen, Stephen Alexander or one of the other reporters.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 6: They they said, you have Tom Howard told us that
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby, his client, Jack Ruby, entered down the basement.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: So you know, this guy going public on how Jack
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: Ruby entered the basement before it's even been announced, and
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: arguably before Jack Ruby would have would have been on
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: record as admitting it, which which we can say is
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: probably around quarter past three after his first meeting with
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 6: Tom Howard.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: So just being his ernie.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so Earl Ruby was never happy with with Tom Howard,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: you know, because Tom Howard he didn't have the best
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 6: reputation in Dallas, Like he was like one of these
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 6: you know, accident chasing you know, cheap and tacky, you know,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: kind of kind of lawyers, do you know what I mean. Yeah,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: so yeah, Earl Ruby kind of stepped in and said, no,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: you're not You're not representing my brother anymore. And that's
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: when Tony Hill and Bella Bell brought him.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have Jack Ruby's lawyer going into the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: captain of homicide and telling him what his clients said.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is uneff a ship.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 6: Hundred percent. So what's Jack Ruby going to do? You know,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: if he if he's so you know, people say, well, well,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby said he came down the main Street ramp
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: and that he did shoot Oswald and this is why
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: he did it. With the amount of prescription. You know,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: if even if they were prescribed you know, the equivalent
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: of speed. Back then, it was prellident he was on
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: and then he was he was on that there's some
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: some report he was on. He had like thirty tablets
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 6: or something in his in his in his system that day,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 6: you know, and a combination of antibiotics and preliodon. But
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: what the hell was he taking, you know, that that
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 6: many pills for on the day of the shooting? You know,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: was he in some kind of state either miraculously you know,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: pull off the shooting, or to just be on the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 6: scene to be part of this crazy but I think
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 6: entirely possible swap out plot. And he was just told
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 6: what to say, to go along with and then and
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: then when his brain scrambled by someone like you know,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 6: Jolly West, you know, in later years, all done and dusted.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: You know, he was never going to live to have
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: another trial, Jack Ruby. He would never have lived to
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 6: have had another trial. So when he died in early
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 6: sixty seven, no problems.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And this just came to me. And to be fair,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: I think this is pure speculation. But if the Western
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: Union transfer slip with Bennett spelt wrong, maybe it had
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: to do with something Tom Howard was up to like
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 5: they had something to do with forging in or whatever.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I'm looking at some of the questions in chat,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 6: so who would have put who would have put Ruby
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 6: up to it? Well, let's let's think about let's think
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 6: about this and the situation. So Oswald is arrested for
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 6: taken in for at least shooting Tippet. I think I
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 6: think most of us think it's pretty reasonable that he
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 6: wasn't meant to survive, you know, November twenty seconds, you know,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 6: and arguably the book depository, especially the theater, you know,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 6: because they sat upon him really heavily in there, and
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 6: he had the good sense to at least say, I'm
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: not resisting arrest. I'm not resisting arrest. So he couldn't
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: have been shot. Even then there's some kind of fleeing assailants.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 6: So the fact that Oswald was brought into Dallas police
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: custody really quickly meant that a really quick plot to
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 6: silence Oswald had to be brought about. And Jack Ruby,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 6: I think he would have been a pretty pretty you know,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 6: whether he's involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, I'll
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 6: leave that to other people to talk about, because you know,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 6: maybe it had something to do with this or not.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 6: I don't know, but you know, Jack Ruby would have
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 6: been a pretty good candidate and could have been identified
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 6: pretty quickly as someone who has all these ties to
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 6: local mob and he's a police groupie. He's just you know,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: he's one of these people that's well known across the
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: city's you know, he's nickname Sparky because he's a bit
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: temperamental and he's got a bit of a reputation. He
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 6: would have been pretty straightforward to identify him as the
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: you know, the the next Loane Nuts to come in
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 6: and and shoot Ruby. Now that that works for if
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 6: Ruby actually was the Oswald shooter or.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Not theory, it's a real quick ball. So say Ruby
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: was supposed to take Oswald out. You know, they were
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: making Oswald really accessible.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: On second and twenty third to report it. And so
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: I mus show this photo here on the screen.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, now.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: I can say that this guy with the glasses here
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: on the right top that to me appears to be
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: the real Jack Ruby.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and so we can definitely put the
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: real Jack Ruby stalking Oswald.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: That we can. But maybe maybe he never took the
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: opportunity and never got the job done. Yeah, he was
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: supposed to do.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: So the last second, Oswald would be accessible to the press,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: you know, the close range, which would support you know
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: the fact that well, if Jack Ruby can't get to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: this guy, well we'll get to him and make it
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: look like it was Jack Ruby.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 6: Yep, yep, totally, yeah, yep. And that that meeting that
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 6: he had in the you know, in the car with
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 6: the I always forget this guy's name. You know, he
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 6: had the broken leg and he was, you know, minding
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 6: a vacant block. What was his name, someone someone in
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 6: chuttle know. You know, he left Dallas really quickly. His
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 6: girlfriend was Kai Coleman. Yeah, you got it, Harry Elsen.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 6: So you know that meeting with Harry Elsen and Kake Coleman,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 6: you know, in the car for an hour and a
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 6: half from the you know, across that Saturday night early
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 6: Sunday morning. Would might that have been something to do
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 6: with Jack?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: You?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 6: You know, you bitched out why didn't you Why didn't
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 6: you do it? And when you had the chance, you know,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 6: the press conference last night. I'll just make sure you're
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 6: at City Hall tomorrow and we'll we'll, we'll, we'll make
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: it happen either way. I don't know. I'm speculating, but
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 6: I think the key to it was just the the
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 6: identification of Jack Ruby as an ideal you know, foil,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 6: you know, the ideal trigger man. You know, whether I
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 6: actually pulled the trigger or not. You know, because the
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 6: more I look at Jack Ruby, especially across that weekend,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 6: he's just a construct.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: He he he.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 6: He offers very little of his own movements. You know,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 6: he's everything that all of his testimony when he wasn't rambling,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 6: it's a very high level. You know, even about the
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 6: phone call to Karen Carlin, like he just goes into
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 6: no he misses out details and you know that happens,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 6: I suppose, but he's just very nondescript, very very general
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 6: across his movements. So that morning, so I think, yeah,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: all the evidence, all the identification of Jack Ruby after
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 6: the after the fact, you know, who's going to go
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 6: against that? So you actually, no, it wasn't Jack Ruby
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 6: that I saw as the shooter. No one's going to
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 6: do that. Everyone, all the press would have fallen into
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 6: it because you know who would go against up against
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 6: the Dallas police and and and anyone in the Dallas
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 6: police that might have been honest and known something. Well,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 6: they never would have come out about it either. He
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 6: would have been a really really easy thing to pile
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 6: everything in on Jack Ruby because they had someone who
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 6: looked like him do it, and you know he was
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 6: he was there on the scene because he was told
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 6: to be, or he was in some kind of drugged
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 6: out state, and butter being the swap out happened in
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 6: the jail office and the go. But the other thing
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 6: I'll probably throw out there as well is, you know,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 6: look at how close Oswald was shot. It was point blank.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 6: How the hell did that bullet not leave you exit
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 6: out of Oswald? You know what I mean? Like Jim
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 6: Level should have should have copped it, and maybe even
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 6: Billy Combas behind him. But it was for such a
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: point blank range shot, there was no there was no
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 6: exit wound. Apparently the bullet was just under his skin
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 6: and you know the eleventh rib on his right side.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 6: So if it was a standing out in the basement,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 6: you know, is it possible that the standing could have
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 6: shot Oswald with a blank because of a blank going
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 6: off that close to someone's body would still cause a wound,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 6: you know, because it's still the full pressure of a
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 6: you know, of a bullet being fired. Obviously you just
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 6: don't have the know how blanks work. You don't have
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 6: a a bullet the dejects, but the force of it,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 6: you would would cause at least Oswald to go you know,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 6: to feel wounded. And then they just swooped in on
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 6: him and got him out of the scene.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 6: That's why they didn't take him to the car and
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 6: rush him to the hospital, because maybe they wanted to
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 6: make sure that the actual fatal shot was you know,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 6: was precise. You know. And if Ruby was such a
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 6: mobland you know, mob affiliated person, why didn't he just
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 6: shoot Oswald point blank in the head. Yeah, you know
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 6: what I mean.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: I hear you. I hear you.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's possible that you know, with the thirty eight,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: which I think is the weapon that he used, it
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: likely probably wouldn't have gone through and through I mean
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: his rib you know, which probably would have stopped him,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you know, stop things.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: It's possible.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: And then you know, then because Oswald did go down
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: very quickly, he would have to be in on the
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: ruise as well in order to act like he's shot
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: type of thing. And I think building a bridge a
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: little too far there. But it's interesting points that you
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: bringing up, for sure, and I think we need to
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: hear all of them.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 6: So yeah, and that's the thing. Well, when I'm talking
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 6: like that, I'm not a firearms expert, that's for sure.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 6: But you know, I just say again, asking the questions
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 6: and people can still provide answers. Great. I play one
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 6: on TV, dude, do good job, that's for sure.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: People are asking, people are asking their clamoring for this
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: ship Paul Yeah.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the guy throwing a bag over Ruby's head.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Louis Miller.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I happen to have footage of it if you don't,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: so everybody can look it.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, bring it up if you have. I don't have
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 6: it really available. It's a while you're doing that. I'll
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 6: just give a bit of context, Louis Miller. He was
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 6: wanting detective, so he, like Blackie Harrison, had been promoted
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 6: onto his He's on some kind of comment with the
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 6: juvenile right, Lieutenant Miller, and so he was one of
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 6: the few police personnel to not be wearing a hat
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: there at the scene, So it makes him really easy
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 6: to identify and you can see very quickly literally.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 7: There is.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 6: There's there's the shooter. Now that that image there that
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 6: looks like Ruby right there actually looks it actually looks
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 6: a lot like Ruby. So but yeah, here he is.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 6: How did he know to be ready? And with what
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 6: like just another coat or some kind of sack.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that we can identify what he's doing,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: what he's using there like a bag?
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 6: Now, Miller, Miller, Miller was he testified to obviously the
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 6: Dallas police investigation, and he said that Ruby was simply
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 6: propelled from behind. That's that's that toward him and he
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 6: I think he put his hands around his neck like
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 6: in some kind of tackle. That doesn't look like what's
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 6: happening to me, he's putting something. Yeah, So again, if
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 6: why do that? If if it was Jack Ruby was
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 6: the shooter, It's like he's already kind of been subduing,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 6: he's not going to get away, so he didn't need
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 6: to be disoriented, you know, to prevent him from escaping. Yeah,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 6: I agree, it looks like a jacket, Derek, why do that? Well?
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 6: To me, going down this line of thinking, which which
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 6: which I am by questioning, if actually was Jack Roby
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 6: was the shooter, it was to conceal the fact that
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 6: it wasn't Jack Raby. That's all I can think of
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 6: anyone else I've thought about this, Paul.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: So you have this thing pop off a little bit,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: you know, and of course if nobody's expecting this to happen,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: they're going to be surprised that it's happening and they're
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: going to react. Okay, So you have all these guys
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: grabbing him at different places around the waist, grabbing arms,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: trying to get the gun away from him, and he's
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: in a bentover position, and the last thing you want
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: is for that suspect to be able to stand up
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: and raise up, you know, because if he's able to
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: do that and get his arm free and he still
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: has a gun, there's gonna be trouble.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yep.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Doing that motion where whatever he's doing there keeping Ruby's
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: head down right to try to help to subdue him,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: does make sense.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 6: Mm hmmmmm.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: You know, it just seems like a normal reaction, you know,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: to subdue a suspect, you know, of whatever's going on,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it's it's certainly something to
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: point out, yeah, as odd, right, but I think unless
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: we have a clearer picture of exactly you know, maybe
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: from the other angle that would be nice to see.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: Exactly what he had or what he used.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, he could have just grabbed Ruby's hat that
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: was falling in front of him and put it back
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: on his head and jerked his neck down.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: You know, yeah, you know, being devil's advocate.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 6: All good, because I am honestly lost France as other
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 6: than yes, an attempt to subdue and then that makes Miller,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 6: you know, the most vigilance and you know, super reaction,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 6: very police officer ever. So good on him if that
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 6: was the case. But you know, the other the other
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 6: alternative is well, because I didn't want the shooter to
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 6: be seen. Yeah, but again, questions that just need to
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 6: continue to be asked, because you know that that's why
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: we keep a keep a spotlight on the bastards. That's
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 6: for sure. Looks like he's grabbing the back of his
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 6: jacket collar to me, okay. Someone said also that it
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 6: looks like Ruby's kind of leaning forward and it's kind
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 6: of like he's expecting to be covered over. I agree
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 6: with that as well. It looks like there's a kind
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 6: of a second movement like he can knows or can
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 6: see somehow that a cover is about.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: To I think he's got there's another cop that's got
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: his arm like between his legs and he's trying to
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: wrestle the gun away.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: That's Grave having been over you know, yeah him, you know,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: and grab him in different directions. And I think the
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: one guy's got his arm and he's trying to get
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: the gun away. It's on the it's on the cover
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: photo that I that I that I kind of did.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: Episode In the background.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 6: Lewis Miller was a kg S O B as well.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 6: You know, he when he got to the warrant commission,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 6: you know, I was in the afternoon and he said,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: how long is this going to take? You know, I've
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 6: got to I've got I've got to get home and
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 6: care for my children or something along those lines. Yeah
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 6: you up here, now, Yeah that's Nate. That's Nate.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: You see how he's got kind of got Ruby's hand
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: between his legs, trying to get the gun out.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: And all I do character this from the real actual
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 4: photo it is.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 6: It's it's a photo, yeah, and that that would have
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 6: been taken by Jack Jack Bears. Yeah, so Jack Bears
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 6: was standing He's the other photograph he took was like
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 6: zero point six of a second before the shooting, and
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 6: that's where you can see the microphone. But that's a
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 6: Jack Bee's photo. That's that's that's a really cool render
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 6: of it.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 6: But yeah, Lowis Miller, he was cagey, you know. He said,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 6: how long is this going to take? I've got to
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 6: be somewhere. I'm going to mind, I mind, And they said, well,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 6: we'll take as long as as long as it needs to. Anyway,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 6: he got got an adjournment to the next morning, and
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 6: then he objected to having to testify, to sorry, to
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 6: take the oath or whatever, and he was just stalling,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 6: not not not going to do it, you know, you
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 6: didn't want to be compelled to do it. And one
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 6: of the lawyers said, well, we can compel you here,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 6: or we can fly up to Washington and you can
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 6: you can be made to do the same thing in
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 6: front of the panel up there, and he agreed. But yeah,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 6: Miller was a cagy cag one who clearly had full
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 6: knowledge of something that day. That's that's what I think.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 6: And yeah, again, how could he how could he know
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 6: to be so prepared so quickly, you know, But yeah, ultimately, again,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 6: like you said, this shooting, it was allowed to happen,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 6: you know that how open and accessible Oswald was, like,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 6: it's just crazy, it's crazy. And then Jesse Curry, you know,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 6: literally laying out how the transfer was going to happen,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 6: and when it's like he was giving literally giving the
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 6: blueprint to you know, whoever might be thinking of wanting
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 6: to harm Oswald, Well, here's how to do it. So
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 6: he was certainly doing his job that day. He could
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 6: have you know, when these apparent threats came in the
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 6: night before, that's a whole other tangent, you know, because
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 6: I call bs on the whole billy grammar thing. You know, Jack,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 6: Jesse Curry could have done something then and just just
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 6: packed Oswald into a car four o'clock that morning, had
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 6: him at the sheriff's at the county jail. But he
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 6: didn't do a damn thing about it. Didn't do a
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 6: damn thing about it. So yeah, you know, because for
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 6: something had to happen.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 5: And it is weird because you brought up the Charlie
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 5: Kirk uh you know, Jack Ruby type of some similarities there.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 5: You know, obviously, Tyler Robertson turns himself in We don't
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: have any footage of that. He wasn't perp walked, he
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: wasn't given a midnight press conference, whereas with Oswalt it
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: was completely the opposite.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 6: You know, yeah, I don't know, think about it. Yeah, well, well,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 6: even say a question in the chat the transfer, you know,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 6: we talk about the Dallas police doing everything they possibly
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 6: could do to make sure has happened. They didn't start
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 6: the transfer until I knew that Oswald was ready to
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: be shot. So, whether it was Jack Ruby or whether
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 6: it was the stand in, whatever, the Dallas police did
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 6: not get things started until I knew everything was in place. Now,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 6: if we want to kind of roll things back a
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 6: bit and say that it was Jack Ruby who went
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 6: into the Western Union office and came out, and you know,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 6: it was approaching Dallas City Hall and came through the
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 6: side door there. You know, I think it's entirely possible
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 6: that Jack Ruby or you know, was the signal to
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 6: get the transfer started, because it was Jesse Curry who
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 6: came in and said, right, everything's ready, time to cut
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 6: it off. So the transfer was late. It was meant
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 6: to kick off at ten o'clock that morning. But of
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 6: course we didn't know that. We know now that it
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 6: didn't start until quarter past eleven, and Oswold was shot
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 6: at twenty one minutes past, so it was one hundred percent.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 6: It was late by over an hour and a half.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 6: And so with Jack Ruby still being in his apartment
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 6: until quarter past ten ten point thirty, maybe that's an
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 6: explanation for why it was so delayed, because he wasn't
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 6: where he needed to be at a particular point in time.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 6: Again speculating, but you know, it was.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: Like, all right, Paul, I got something for you. Here,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: he's rubbing his hands.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: It will be good.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 6: You go easy man, you're you. You call you call
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 6: it straight and blunt. I lock it by because I'm.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: Just gonna throw this out there and let it land
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: wherever it may. Okay, So if you look at your screen,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna share the picture that you showed earlier right.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: Of of our guy that doesn't quite look like Jack Ruby.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: But doesn't he does look like Jack Ruby, it's just
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: not quite there, right, Yeah, Okay, So I'm gonna show
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: you something else that I came across m.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: And you tell me what you think, and it's actually.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: Video.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: I think I got the guy on video Paul Cool.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: In the WFAA newsroom on November twenty second, nineteen three.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 4: All right, now, I'm gonna show you this, and it
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: starts quickly.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: You're gonna see I forget what the guy's name is here,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: but he's I think it's Bill something, and he's interviewing
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: one of his buddies. And if you look in the
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: background of the video, you'll see a man seated at
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: a desk on the phone now paying attention to the
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: guy on the phone sitting at the desk. And it's
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: gonna happen as soon as I us to share it
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: and start playing it. Okay, So here's the still. You
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: see the guys city behind him.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: On the phone. Well, pan over and you're gonna get
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: a real goddamn good view of this guy. Okay, all right,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: here we go right there.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, that looks like Jack Kraby to me.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: Well, that looks like the guy in the hallway. To me,
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: that kind of looks like Jack Ruby. Yeah, see that hairy.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 6: Okay, I'm so I go back to the other guy.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, see that bald sheen.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: Now I'll let it play, and here we go. He
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: gets up and leaves.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 6: He looks he looks told than Ruby though.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, I'm saying this is not Ruby, but it's
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: the guy like Ruby that was in the hallway.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 6: Nah. Yeah, Okay.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: My deduction being if this is taken in the w
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: f A newsroom, okay, and obviously he's gotta be he's
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: got to work for w f A A and that yep,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: that would be you.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 4: Know, two plus two goals four kind of ship. Right.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: Now, pay attention to where he was sitting, the empty
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: chair desk, and here in a second, somebody else is
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: going to sit down in that chair and start smoking
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: a cigarette.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we leave, Well that was that.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 5: Well do it from the front the first couple of
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 5: seconds again, wrong.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 6: Yep, oh place, yeah, because I think, yeah, I'm with
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 6: you can wait, yes, yeah, man, Now you're right. It's
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 6: just we just want the noise to be a little
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 6: bit curve, yeah, to really line up to go on
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 6: the whole way.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 5: And that sucks because one of the guys in front
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 5: blocks his back hairline when he gets up, so you can't.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: Really see it.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 6: And this guy's wearing a wedding ring as well. I
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 6: think I think someone in your chat might that comment.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 6: He's wearing he looks like he's wearing a wedding ring. Yeah,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 6: oh the odds look a little bit different. But yeah,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 6: that's interesting, that's really interesting.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it would make sense if this guy's in
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: w F a employee. Yeah, it makes sense for him
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: to also, you know, be in the hallway, you know all.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: But damn, like I said, he does, he does bear
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: a very strong resemblance to Ye.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah for sure.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 7: Yeah, let's see, I.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: Might have a a comparison, a better comparison photo.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 5: Live Live research on the Long Term Them podcast.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 4: That's that's what we do. Wright.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: So we have the real Jack Ruby, of course at
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: the top, we got hallway Ruby on the left and
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: newsman Ruby on the right.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that hair, that bald scene on top. I don't know.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 6: Well, so the the the top of his hairline to
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 6: where the comb over starts, that that that bald part
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 6: kind of it's like it almost extends right across the
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 6: top of his head, which is very similar to the
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 6: guy in the hallway, whereas Ruby never had that. Clearly
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 6: Ruby had hair across the top of his head. It
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 6: was just thinning on the side there.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't know if I found anything groundbreaking here.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 3: But.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 6: It's more than I had gone into. This really cool
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 6: newsman Ruby doesn't have Ruby's dead shock. Ohs yeah. And
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 6: I think he looks a bit taller as well than
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 6: than real Jack Ruby. That the guy in the newsroom.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And then there's this one which gives you a good,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 4: you know, hairline comparison.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, the guy on the loves his nose.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: Seemed like he has more of a hook nose, you know. Try,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 4: but it's interesting. Yeah, I love it.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it really is.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know what it means.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: And I tried.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: I tried to look back at, you know, WFA employees
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three to see if I could find
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: somebody that it looks like Ruby that was, you know,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: some kind of reporter.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: Couldn't.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: I couldn't really find much in the way of photos.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: I did find one photo, but it doesn't have him
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: in it. There's there's this one here, and this is
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: from w f A radios.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: I guess they were sponsoring a play or something. It
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: has a bunch of their anchors here, but I don't
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: see the Jack Ruby guy.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 4: Yeh, A bunch of dapper fellows. But uh, the movies
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 4: these are not the joys you're looking for.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 6: New doesn't have looking at their comments. Yeah, the w
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 6: F I got it looks more like joy bod. And
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 6: that's funny. Outside.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: That was because I remember years ago, like a long
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: time ago, when I was battling ralphson k and his bullshit. Yeah,
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: and and not not this bullshit, but the other bullshit
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: in the doorway right, and it came across. I remember
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: seeing that footage, uh, and I was like, there's something
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: about that hallway Ruby, Ruby doesn't match the real Jack.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: And I remember I found that footage and but I
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: couldn't remember what I did with it. And then so
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: I went back, you know, in preparation for this show,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: and I was like, all right, I'm scouring. I'm gonna
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: find this ship. And I finally found it, which is amazing.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: And in six hours of footage, I was able to
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: come across and fairly quickly, and you know, I'm five seconds,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: you know, don't see him again.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 4: It's pretty crazy, man. Yep, yeah, I mean, you know,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 4: like ship like this happened.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: You know, there's people sometimes look like other people, yeah,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: from more than others. You know, if you put them
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: by side, you can see the obvious discrepancies. But separately,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: you know, you can see why Seth Canner was seeing
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby at Parkland. Somebody who's seen Jack Ruby outside
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: of TSBD. Somebody saw Jack inside of the Texas Theater.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 6: Applin Under And yeah, again, these retrospective identifications of Jack
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 6: Ruby being somewhere where when he was somewhere else. I've
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 6: just kind of gone into that in terms of the
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 6: November the twenty fourth, But yeah, it happened all over
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 6: that weekend. I'm sure Julianne Mercer, you know, was was
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 6: that really Jack Ruby in the pickup truck, you know,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 6: with the that was parked up on the side of
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 6: Elm Street Like it's it's really it's convincing though, because
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 6: she was very and I'm not just saying because it
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 6: was depicted really well in the JFK film, but I'm saying,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 6: if you read her testimony, she makes the identification before
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 6: Oswald was shot. So that's you know, that's that's compelling
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 6: one hundred percent. But when we're looking at we're trying
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 6: to split the difference between people based on their nose
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 6: and house in their hairline. Is in the heat of
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 6: a moment in terms of a moment when you don't
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 6: know how consequential it's going to be, how much do
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 6: you actually retain So, you know, retrospective identifications of Jack
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 6: Ruby by people who didn't know him, you know, how valid,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 6: how strong are they when compared to other places that
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 6: he was most likely at the same time. And I'm
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 6: talking about you know, him being at the apartment versus
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 6: outside or inside city Hall first thing on that Sunday morning.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 6: So yeah, the official narrative.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: That who works for w f A is you know,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: likely going to be present at these big news worthy events. Parklands,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: Texan Theater looked pository. You know, all these guys work
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: for the newspapers, uh, photographers, TV stations. They were everywhere, man,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: So every time some news went off, they were you know,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: they were running over the place, trying to get the scoop,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: trying to get photos and all of that stuff, you know,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: And it's it's not out of the realm of possibility
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: that you know, if it's whoever this guy is, that
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: that looks a hell of a lot like Jack Ruby.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately for him, you know, could have been mistaken for
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: the real Jack Ruby. And and of course Jack Ruby,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: uh could have been, like you said, impersonated in the basement. Yeah,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: because at that point, you know, you have detectives, right,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: and newsmen, and they're all wearing suits and hats, all
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: of them. He's just another suit and hat guy, right,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: unless he's unless there is a cop in uniform, he's
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: just another suit and hat guy. Yeah, probably really paying
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: too much attention to him. He's just another suit and
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: hat guy, either he's a reporter, is a detective, you know,
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: unless he really took a good look at his face
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: and it's like, oh that's Jack, you know, David.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 4: You know, in that moment, he's just another suit and
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 4: hat gay, you know.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 6: And the extends to the Reserve police as well. You know,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 6: they they they couldn't they couldn't name, you know, a
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 6: fellow reserve personnel because they were just volunteers. And there
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 6: were like twelve in the basement at the time of
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 6: the shooting. And you know, there's a couple of testimonies
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 6: where one reserve offic officer said, oh, yeah, I saw
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: I saw another reserve officer, but I don't know what
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 6: his name was. You know, that that was that was
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 6: pretty common as well, because they were just probably never
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 6: rostered on at the same one time of the month,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 6: you know, for for their for their reserve roster requirements
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 6: and things. So you know that lack of recognition, if
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 6: it extends to police personnel, and you know that might
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 6: have been a factor in terms of identifying personnel that
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 6: we're loitering around and not being sure who I will.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Sally, there's even one on the air tonight live
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: from Virginia, USA.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 5: No, it's interesting what you said about the reserve officers, Paul,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 5: because Rob, I just want to bring up one document
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 5: because I want to get Paul's thoughts on it.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 4: If you could share my thing.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 5: I believe you've referenced him in your book. William J.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 4: Newman.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 6: Really suspicious guy, really suspicious.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know anything about him. I
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 5: was looking for deally positive witnesses. And of course you
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 5: have Bill Newman right, the guy covered as kid right forever.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 5: And this is December one, sixty three. J. E. Curry
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 5: interview of a reserve officer. And this is what reminded
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: me of this patrolman, William J.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 4: Newman.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 5: I guess badge number three seventeen on December first, sixty three,
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 5: Reserve officer Patrolman W. J. Newman was interviewed by the
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 5: undersigned officers as to any information you might have concerning
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 5: the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswalt, which is which was
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 5: not covered in his original report dated on November twenty
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 5: sixth sixty three, which, like Rob and I like to say.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: Is a problem.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 5: Newman stated, after reading his original report that he recalled
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 5: observing an unknown white male run down the main street ramp,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 5: which is the first picture I showed into the basement
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 5: of City Hall, approximately one minute prior to the shooting
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 5: of Oswalt. This own unknown male disappeared into the group
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 5: of newsmen and police officers and was not observed by Newman. Again,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 5: Patrol Newman states that he observed this individual just prior
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 5: to someone in the crowd announcing.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: Here he comes.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 5: Less than a minute lapsed from this time until the
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 5: shooting of Oswald. Newman states he did not know Jack
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 5: Ruby at this time. Patrol MC Newman has not been
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 5: contacted by any federal agency, and I guess later I
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 5: think this is like an amendment statement amended like later statement.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 5: It might have been by Graves or someone in the
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 5: Criminal Intelligence Division. I recall someone going over to the
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 5: railroad railing at the bottom of the Main Street ramp.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 5: But I have racked my brain and cannot recall whether
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 5: it was before or after the shooting. I do not
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 5: remember the person hat. I do remember the person had
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 5: on a suit, but I do not know the color.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 5: I remember seeing a hat, but I can't say whether
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 5: he was wearing one or not. This could have been
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 5: about the time the ambulance pulled in. So I know
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 5: you have a couple of pages on him and his book.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 5: So what are your thoughts on the sky statements?
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, a lonely reserve officer in William Newman. He was,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 6: by account of statement, the most interviewed of all of
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 6: the Dallas Police personnel. He gave three statements to the DPD,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 6: gave one to the or maybe even two to the FBI,
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 6: and he testified to the Warren Commission as well. And
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 6: he went back on his statement big time. So he
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 6: also would were gone to say that that that person
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 6: that he wasn't sure, you know, if he came down
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 6: the ramp before after the shooting, got into a scuffle
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 6: with other news news personnel, he was the thought. He
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 6: just backed and forth, back and forth, and maybe that's
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 6: why he was interviewed so much. But the interesting thing
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 6: about William Newman Dallas Basement Cea Hall basement William Newman
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 6: was he was probably the only person that actually stayed
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 6: in the one spot for that across that whole morning
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 6: until obviously the shooting took place. So he was where
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 6: he was. I don't know, if you're you're happy, if
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 6: you want to bring back up my screen, Rob, I
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 6: can show you where exactly he was, because that has
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 6: a bearing on how much he would have been able
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 6: to see up the ramp. So let me, yeah, let
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 6: me just get myself.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: So he was down the ramp at this point.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so Newman he was actually based around here around here,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 6: so what he he never lingered from there because it
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 6: was basically his job. Sorry, it was probably more like here.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 6: It was his job to basically guard this doorway into
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 6: the engine room which led down to the sub basement
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 6: under the under the the whole complex. So the sub
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 6: basement you know under here was like the engine room
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 6: and you know that's where the locker room was, you know,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 6: so it was a pretty important, you know a way
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 6: for someone to come and go from this basement area.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 6: So anyway, that's why Newman was there. He was assigned
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 6: to be there since the start. You know, when they
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 6: started searching the basement, you know, so Patrick Dean and
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 6: you know, twelve to fifteen reserve officers, probably including Newman
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 6: as well, they gave their cursory search around the basement area,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 6: never bothered ceiling. The only thing they did was turn
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 6: off these elevators. And of course there were two reserve
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 6: officers up here again on Wooley that would be reassigned closer.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 6: They were moved away close to the shooting. But Newman
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 6: was the only person that stayed generally in the one spot.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: So this is where he would have been when he
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 6: saw up the ramp. The problem is, and if we
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 6: go back to your photograph, even Joe, how low the
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 6: ceiling is coming down the corridor, you know, coming down
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 6: the ramp, like you can't actually see all the way
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 6: up the ramp. Even if you were like on the
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 6: other side of the ramp, even under here, you would
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 6: not be able to see all that far up. So
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 6: he is and even Patrick Dean, like he said, Patrick Dean,
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 6: he said he was standing about here at the time
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 6: in the shooting, and word got out that he told
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 6: the Darwin Paine I think it was David Hughes, one
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 6: of the reporters, that he saw Jack Ruby enter down
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 6: the ramp. Well he couldn't couldn't have possibly because you
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 6: can't see all the way up the ramp because of
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 6: how long the ceilings are. Anyway, Newman was standing here
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 6: the whole time and he said he saw, you know,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 6: the person coming down and then you know, getting into
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 6: a scuffle, and you know he didn't have a hat
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 6: and all this kind of stuff. So again, just just
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 6: someone someone that really just wasted a whole bunch of time.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 6: And you know whether he you know, whether he changed
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 6: his initial statement because he got scared or not, I
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 6: don't know. But yeah, the lack of consistency even amongst
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 6: his own statements and to the warrant Commission, which he
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 6: really really kind of buttoned his lip during because obviously
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 6: he was under oath, is yeah, is important. The other
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 6: thing to say about William Newman was he was identified
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 6: as the police officer at Parkland Hospital telling other people
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 6: that it was Jack Ruby who had just shot Oswald
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 6: and so Harold Holly. He was another reserve officer that
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 6: apparently said to testified that, yeah, there was a police
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 6: police officer saying it was Jack Ruby who shot Oswald.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 6: And when he was asked who he was, he said,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 6: I don't know who he was. I presumed he was
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 6: another reserve officer something on to those lines. And so
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 6: they actually showed him photos of the reserve and police personnel,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 6: and he pointed out William Newman as being the you know,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 6: the loud mouse that heard that was telling everyone at
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 6: Parkland Hospital that Jack Ruby had just shot Oswald. So interesting, guy. Yeah,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 6: put my.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 5: Screen back up just for one second, because I want
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 5: to reiterate what what Paul was talking about in terms
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 5: of what.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 4: I'll put it up while Paul was talking earlier.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 5: Oh, I had it with a line of sight if
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 5: it was really in that corner.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: You and you have to an X ray vision to
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: see through walls and around corners and ship you know,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: and the.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 4: Amount of commotion.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 6: And an interesting bit about you know, if we go
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 6: back to that that that diagram of the basement, you
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 6: know that you can actually cross through the railings, you know,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 6: a part way up the ramp from in the car park.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 6: So I'm just so even as of about here, you know,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 6: the ramp is still going down, and it only gets
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 6: to the flat point. You know where you see that
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 6: stop sign in your photo, Joe, That's where it becomes flat,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 6: which is literally down here. So someone feasibly could climb
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 6: through the railings here because this is a solid wall
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 6: and still be walking down the ramp, which is kind
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 6: of why I've got these marked, is what I think.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 6: Jimmy Turner, who testified to the Warren Commission, said he
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 6: saw Jack Ruby walking down the ramp or saw again
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 6: retrospectively identified someone he later identified as Jack Ruby because
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 6: he didn't know him at the time, as if you
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 6: first noticed him here and walked walked to get into position. Now,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 6: the Warren Commission, they manipulate that statement to make it
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 6: sound like Jimmy Turner saw Jack Ruby walking all the
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 6: way down the ramp, But no, no, when you read
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 6: Jimmy Turner's statement, it has Jack Ruby being seen here
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 6: or who he attributed as being Jack Ruby being seen
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 6: here and then just simply getting into position, which kind
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 6: of lines up with something that Blackie Harrison then said
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 6: minutes after the shooting that he said he saw the
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 6: man that he knew was the shooter climb through the
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 6: railing and get into position. So again Blackie Harrison, Blackie
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 6: Harrison was saying that five minutes after the shooting. Yet
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 6: he knew Jack Ruby for eleven years. So either Blackie
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 6: Harrison was being brutally honest in the five minutes after
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 6: the shooting and saying, now, I saw the person that
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 6: I knew late, too late to be the shooter, because
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 6: he stood right behind me. I saw him get into position.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 6: It was from that red square from that point. So again,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 6: I think, you know, coming down the ramp is a
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 6: very convenient interpretation of literally someone squeop getting through the
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 6: railing and still walking down the ramp because for the
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 6: you know, the descent, it literally flattens out where Ruby
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 6: and Croy and you know, unidentified Japanese reporter and you know,
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 6: Blackie Harrison were We're standing.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, did we cover? Just wanted to cover Paul?
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah? Absolutely. I just again, you know, I got this
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 6: this article, this series, Please check it out. I get
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 6: I get deep and I get dense. But yeah, so
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 6: it's death to justice, the shooting of lee Jaosworld. So
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 6: just jump on that. It's free, you know, listen to
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 6: the I've got heaps of other articles on there as well.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 6: But the point of this was I just wanted to
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 6: make it okay to sensibly question whether it was Jack
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 6: Ruby who really Oswald or not. Jury is still out
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 6: for me. I'm just putting the questions out there. And
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 6: you know, as people over the time have done, you
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 6: reached out to me with some really good information, which
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 6: has given me, you know, kind of the impetus to
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 6: be able to put pull together. You know that this
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 6: kind of information like Blackie Harrison and seeing the shoe
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 6: to get into position, but saying it wasn't Ruby, All
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 6: that kind of stuff comes from conversations with your listeners,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 6: you know, because of podcasts like this. So please, yeah,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 6: reach out to me if you've got any other information
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 6: or anything like that. Yeah, it's okay to question the evidence.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 6: All I've done is I've just done it differently to
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 6: Ralf Sinkay and others. I'm not going for the big headline.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 6: I'm not coming out and saying it with Sam Ruby,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 6: and I'm making my article kind of just lead to that.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 6: I'm letting the evidence. You know, I've literally written it
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 6: in chronological orders, so yeah, make of it what you will.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 6: But I mean, does anyone else out there have any
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 6: questions on your chat or anything like that.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: That's what he said, something about nth Croy was seen
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: hanging out with josephlo the weekend.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 4: Of the assassination.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I believe it.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 4: It was Westbrook just about at every crime scene that weekend.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Kenneth Croy. He even at the time he he
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 6: identified the shooters wearing a brown jacket. I'm sorry, maroon jacket.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 6: That's that's not I mean, come on, that's not the
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 6: color of the jacket that you know, Ruby or the
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 6: shooter was wearing. So what are you doing? Man? You know,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 6: he's either not very helpful or yeah, just part of
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 6: it all, some kind of useful idiot or you know,
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 6: a distractor. Yeah, Kenneth Croy, he's a whole other topic.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 6: And Westbrook.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And to search for your sub stack is p
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 5: Abbott got subset I just taped and Paul Abbot JFK
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 5: and it came right up and Google.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 4: I'll put a link in the description after we get
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: done here. Once it's up on YouTube. Thanks on Amazon.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 4: Is in the description right now. Death to Justice by
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 4: Paul Abbott, the shooting Lee Harvey Oswald. Go get your coffee.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 4: If you don't have one, folks.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 6: I appreciate it. And before I even started writing the book,
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 6: I made sure no one else had written a book
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 6: about the Oswald shooting, because the last thing we need
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 6: is books upon books upon books that write the same thing,
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 6: but so in a different way. So but before I
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 6: even wrote wrote thought about writing a book on the
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 6: Ozwald shooting, I'm not sure there wasn't any And to
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 6: my surprise, and I'm still surprised that no one ever
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 6: did it except for Seth Cantor. But even then that
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 6: was just more about Jack Ruby and you know a
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 6: little bit, you know, but everything else that's kind of
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 6: just been largely glazed over events. So yeah, by the book,
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 6: I read my subseack or whatever. But it's a topic
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 6: I hope clearly we've proved and there is just so
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 6: much more to it. And and you know, the knowledge
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 6: of your audience in the chat just goes to show
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 6: there's just so much more to it than then we
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 6: all initially bogain, who's the who's the dog there? Who's
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 6: your mate?
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 4: That's Ruby?
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 6: That is Ruby Ruby, I've heard of Ruby. Yeah, cool Ruby.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 4: After Jack Ruby himself.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 6: Yes, even though it's not Ruby but Ruby coming, Yeah.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 5: Doesn't really look like a yes. Thank you tubes for
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 5: auh And yeah, I think my library man uh said
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 5: he was going to get the book as well.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: And yeah, we've got a big Australian following here, Paul,
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 6: I say, I'll say it, you know, in a really
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 6: succinct way. You know, the assassination of President Kennedy. It's
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 6: a fascinating topic, but the world literally changed with his death,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 6: and we're in Australia. I think you know that we
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 6: have a knowledge and appreciation of that as well. You know,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 6: the Vietnam War escalate, Our presence in the Vietnam War
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 6: escalated arguably because President Kennedy's assassination, So you know, there
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 6: were direct impacts to our country as well. But the
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 6: world itself changed and it's good that Australians understand it
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 6: as well, because yeah, like I said, we've got to
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 6: keep the spotlight on the bastards behind it.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 4: With plans.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 6: No, I'd love to get there again, but oh man,
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 6: it's a that's a hell of a big thing to
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 6: get to Dallas. So yeah, not not this year, but
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 6: if I'd be happy to talk over things and make
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 6: sure I'm on time. This time in my audio is working.
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I said the length and I was like,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 4: oh shit, he's like seeing a couple of hours.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 6: Uh, the time difference is but no, no, no plans
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 6: for Dalla Southern and maybe I'm doing a couple of
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 6: zoom presentations. But I would just say that to your
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 6: audience as well. Like Paula, I know she's yeah, a big,
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 6: big follower of yours. I met her at the at
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 6: the conference last year, and a few other people that
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 6: that dig your podcast. I just say to anyone if
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 6: you can get to the conferences, whichever ones, just get
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 6: their mate. Let's keep them as in person events because
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 6: you know, you get to meet meet people are on
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 6: the same wavelengths and have really constructive conversations and yeah,
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 6: I've got to support them. So if you can get
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 6: to Dallas, please do.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 4: Awesome.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks Paul for coming back on. We appreciate you
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: and and your research. And again all the links for
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: all your stuff will be in the description.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 4: After the show.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: The book is already there, but we'll put the sub
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: stack up as well. Thank you, and I have a
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: soft copy of course. Joe would have the hard copy.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 6: That's a that'll that'll keep it. That'll keep a door open,
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 6: it'll keep it.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 5: It's a clean looking book. Man, that's one of the
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 5: leadst I've ever seen.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 6: A shout out to you guys as well, Rob, particularly
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 6: your research ramblings. That series is so good because we
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 6: need more people mining the data, going through and knowing
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 6: where to look for the documents and what they mean,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 6: and you know, all the reference ideas that you put
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 6: in there, like it was more power to you, man,
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 6: Like that was such a good series. I hope, I
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 6: hope I've got people up and about and doing what
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 6: I did to put this together. This this book, it
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 6: was all public information. I didn't conduct any interviews with
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 6: living witnesses. I tried to, but everything in my book
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 6: he's from from stuff that's always been out there. So
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 6: I get out there, Popaul, and yeah, keep minding that
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 6: that information. Cool deals foo.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 4: Fools, Yes, all right, you know, get your fat ass
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 4: in here. Joe grabbed the damn dog again.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 8: The case of ship good Paul, hold on, Paul, there
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 8: he is, Yeah down here with us, olks.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging out with us, Thanks for showing up.
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: I've seen it was over fifty strong at various points tonight,
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: so we appreciate the hell out of it. Fifty down under,
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: thank you so much. That's like twenty five American dollars.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: We appreciate the hell out of it as always. Again,
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: Good you guys, and uh we'll see you again very
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: soon for some more random research ramblings, maybe a little
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: book review that Joe won't be at and uh yeah
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: were two.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 4: Remember is only next week. We'll get into this more
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 4: uh gookery if you will.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: Thanks for Paul Labbit for joining us. It's always a pleasure.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: Paul hang out for just one second for me.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 4: Thank you. That's it for us, folks. We'll see you
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 4: next time. Peace.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 3: Peace,