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How Trusts Can Protect Your Assets From Probate and Creditors · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing & Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: 866-848-5699 to make an appointment. That's 866-848-5699. Operators are standing by. Now,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: here are your hosts, Todd Lutzke and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutzke, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing & Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome, Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better than you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great, thank you. What do you have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: So I've got a couple of cases. We're going to
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  Speaker 3: go to Maine. We have a Maine Supreme Court case where,
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  Speaker 3: you know, there's a question here, a battle here, if
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  Speaker 3: you will. Do I have a will or do I
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  Speaker 3: have a holographic will that revoked my other will?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I'm just thinking about Star Trek right now, right?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, I know. It's a hologram, right? It's a holographic will. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it's interesting here in a case where, you know, I
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  Speaker 3: think one child kind of stirred the pot and got
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  Speaker 3: the father to create a note that said he's going
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  Speaker 3: to change his will and did that note amount to
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  Speaker 3: a will.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So it's interesting though, folks. But again, it's just cases
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  Speaker 3: where people, you know, you got to have your plan
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  Speaker 3: in place and prevent things like undue influence and the like.
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  Speaker 3: Then we head over to Michigan and we have a
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  Speaker 3: Supreme Court case in Michigan. This one's a little uncomfortable.
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  Speaker 3: So the facts are a little disturbing, but it's really,
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  Speaker 3: the question is more about When you have a trust
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  Speaker 3: and then there's a claim against the estate when someone dies,
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  Speaker 3: are the assets in the trust protected from creditors or
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  Speaker 3: claims of the estate? Probate versus non-probate. We talk about
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  Speaker 3: it all the time. We say, is it important to
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  Speaker 3: avoid probate? Well, there's many other reasons maybe to avoid
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  Speaker 3: probate other than just cost and time and headache. So
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  Speaker 3: stick around and we're going to learn about this case
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  Speaker 3: as well. But folks, speaking of probate and wills, We
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  Speaker 3: have a new guide for this month, brand new, and
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  Speaker 3: it's probably one of the newer guides we've got in
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  Speaker 3: general because the law changed around 2022 that allows you
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  Speaker 3: to name your estate as a beneficiary for your IRA. Now,
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  Speaker 3: most of you are shuddering, thinking that's malpractice and you
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  Speaker 3: would never do that because there's bad income tax problems. Well,
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  Speaker 3: IRAs are the toughest asset to protect from a nursing home,
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  Speaker 3: and this finally gives us a way to at least
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  Speaker 3: a 50% shot at protecting assets from a nursing home
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  Speaker 3: with an IRA. But it also has to be used
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  Speaker 3: in conjunction with a testamentary trust so that you can
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  Speaker 3: learn how to do both estate tax planning and protection
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  Speaker 3: from a nursing home with an IRA and not hurt
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  Speaker 3: yourself on the income tax front. Folks, too much for
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  Speaker 3: me to mention now. You need to get this guide
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  Speaker 3: to learn how all three of those components play together
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  Speaker 3: and and figuring out a way to handle your IRA
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  Speaker 3: and help fit it into your estate plan. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com and get our new guide on naming
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  Speaker 3: the estate a beneficiary of your IRA. Shall we head
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  Speaker 3: over to Maine? So here we have Robert Sr., who
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  Speaker 3: executed a will in October of 2000. That distributed his business,
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  Speaker 3: the Young Lobster Pound, to his son Raymond. The balance
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  Speaker 3: of the assets were equally to Raymond and the daughter Diane,
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  Speaker 3: specifically disinheriting Robert Jr. So we have senior and junior here.
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  Speaker 3: Junior's out. They were estranged for a while. Well, in 2000,
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  Speaker 3: when Robert retired, Ray began managing the company makes sense.
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  Speaker 3: He's working on it. Well, September 2017, Junior decides to
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  Speaker 3: visit Senior, and I don't know if he's making amends.
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  Speaker 3: More importantly, he seems to rile him up. Rile him
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  Speaker 3: up by telling him that Ray, his son, is selling
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  Speaker 3: the business, and that he's not going to be invited
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  Speaker 3: to Ray's daughter's wedding. I don't know if any of
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  Speaker 3: that's true or not, but nevertheless, Senior's upset. So Senior
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  Speaker 3: then writes a handwritten note stating that he directed his
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  Speaker 3: assets to go equally to Junior... who was out and
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  Speaker 3: is now in.
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  Speaker 2: Who's back in, conveniently.
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  Speaker 3: And Diane, the daughter, and nothing to Raymond, who was
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  Speaker 3: getting the business before. Signed it, Love, Bob Young. Well,
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  Speaker 3: interesting note here is that Senior, when he signed his will,
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  Speaker 3: he signed his will full legal name, middle initial, in cursive.
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  Speaker 2: Which is what you should do, right? It's a legal document.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but the note he signed, Love, Bob Young. So,
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  Speaker 3: just a little fact. Senior then tells Junior that he's
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  Speaker 3: going to take this note to the attorney the next
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  Speaker 3: day on Monday, and he's going to make it a
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  Speaker 3: permanent will. Well, Senior died the next day. Wow. Never
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  Speaker 3: got there. A three-day trial, which ultimately ended in the
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  Speaker 3: 2000 will being declared valid in the 2017 note, not
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  Speaker 3: a holographic will. The probate court said the 2000 will
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  Speaker 3: is valid and that Senior only intended the 2017 note
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  Speaker 3: to be a note that he would take to his
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  Speaker 3: lawyer and change his will. Well, Junior and Diane, of course, appealed,
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  Speaker 3: arguing that the court erred in considering this extrinsic evidence.
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  Speaker 3: The Supreme Court affirmed the probate court, saying, no, the
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  Speaker 3: 2017 note was just a note. In addition, the attorney
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  Speaker 3: and the CPA both testified against that senior never told
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  Speaker 3: them that he wanted to change his wishes and his will.
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  Speaker 3: I think they got it right.
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  Speaker 2: I think they have to see where Junior was that night.
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  Speaker 2: It's a little suspect.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it is.
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  Speaker 2: Suddenly you're in and then he dies that night before.
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  Speaker 3: He could go to the.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: But that's kind of, but why wouldn't you let him
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  Speaker 3: go to the doc, go to the, to get it changed?
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  Speaker 2: Well, maybe he needed to see where Ray was that
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  Speaker 2: night then in that case.
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  Speaker 3: Ultimately, I think they got the right, decision here. But
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  Speaker 3: what was troubling here and what I think we can
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  Speaker 3: learn from this tips and lessons is, you know, why
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  Speaker 3: was undue influence not brought up here ever? That never
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  Speaker 3: seems to come into play. It seems like he was
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  Speaker 3: stirring the pot, Junior, you know, trying to influence dad
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  Speaker 3: later in life. He never came up as to whether
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  Speaker 3: the state, it never came up as to whether the
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  Speaker 3: statements made were true or false about selling the business,
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  Speaker 3: not inviting him to the wedding. Nobody knows. But there
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  Speaker 3: was clearly more support for the 2000 will. to make
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  Speaker 3: it valid. So that's number one thing we learned.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Why didn't undue influence come up? Secondly, there was no trust.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously a trust would have been better here, right?
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  Speaker 2: Especially with a business involved.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. What do you've had? It's harder to revoke. It's
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  Speaker 3: requires more effort. It would have avoided probate. It would
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  Speaker 3: have provided, you know, bloodline planning better. It would have,
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  Speaker 3: would have been better. But third, and maybe the most
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  Speaker 3: important is what you just touched on, Susan, you had
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  Speaker 3: a business. Well, When you have a business and you've
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  Speaker 3: got a son working in the business, you want to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that son stays interested in the business. So
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  Speaker 3: my feeling is, why wouldn't you transfer some non-voting shares
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  Speaker 3: to the child who's active in the business? This at
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  Speaker 3: least keeps him interested in the business. Even if the
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  Speaker 3: parent's not ready to give up control, the parent can
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  Speaker 3: keep all the controlling stock. Even if you did whatever,
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  Speaker 3: you could do a 90-10 split. 10% is voting, but
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  Speaker 3: it's 100% control. And you can slowly peel off the
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  Speaker 3: non-voting shares to the son, give him 20%, give him 30%,
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  Speaker 3: whatever it is. And that way, it keeps him interested
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  Speaker 3: and it keeps the parent in control. Plus, in this case,
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  Speaker 3: It would have prevented him from losing the business, even
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  Speaker 3: if this undue influence existed. Because let's say the father
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  Speaker 3: had given the son, you know, 50% of the non-voting shares. Well,
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  Speaker 3: at least he owns 50% of the company. So even
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  Speaker 3: if they change the will, right, and disinherit him, he
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  Speaker 3: already owns 50% of the business. So when the business
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  Speaker 3: is sold, he's at least going to get 50% of
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  Speaker 3: the proceeds.
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  Speaker 2: And there's no shady business going on. with the other
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  Speaker 2: son and, you know, it takes a real effort to
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  Speaker 2: change things like that.
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  Speaker 3: So I think it was very helpful that if they would,
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  Speaker 3: you know, so when you have a business folks and
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  Speaker 3: you're out there wondering what to do and how to
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  Speaker 3: leave it, I mean, think about this voting, non-voting idea and,
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  Speaker 3: and keep that kid involved. Not only does it keep
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  Speaker 3: them interested, but it kind of protects them from, you know,
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  Speaker 3: problems in the family.
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  Speaker 2: You have that business succession plan.
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  Speaker 3: That's so important. Right. And folks, you know, query here fourth,
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  Speaker 3: the last issue is, you know, it's a new will.
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  Speaker 3: And if the new will had been executed, it would
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  Speaker 3: have revoked prior wills. So in this case, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not sure there was ever a new will created.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm not sure how it could have revoked the
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  Speaker 3: prior 2000 will. So just some things to think about,
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  Speaker 3: you know, especially when you have a business planning becomes
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  Speaker 3: so important to make sure that business gets where it
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  Speaker 3: needs to go. Now, folks, sometimes, you know, When we're
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: doing our planning, the hardest thing to plan for is
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: an IRA. Call and get the guide. Learn how. brand
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: new guide naming your estate, the beneficiary, and protect it
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: from the nursing home and not lose any estate tax
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: or income tax problems at the same time. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com.
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  Speaker 1: Again, 866-848-5699.
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutzky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
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  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
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  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to The Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 1: Leaving your IRA to your children may seem like the
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. I'm
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutzke, a partner with the
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing & Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd?
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  Speaker 3: We're going to head to Michigan with a little uncomfortable
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: fact pattern, but we'll get through it. Makes you wonder.
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  Speaker 2: Choose your words wisely.
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  Speaker 3: It's not so much the fact pattern as it is
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  Speaker 3: this probate, non-probate, creditor protection point. So in this case,
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  Speaker 3: we have facts where in November 2018, Jennifer, apparently the daughter,
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  Speaker 3: moved her mother, Helen, from the assisted living facility that
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Helen was in into her home, where she then proceeded
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: to kill her and then kill herself. Okay.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I told you they were uncomfortable. Where have you been
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: digging these stories up?
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: I told you it was uncomfortable. So Julie, then the sister,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: files a wrongful death action against Jennifer's estate as personal
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: representative of Helen's estate. Makes sense. I would do the
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  Speaker 3: same thing. Jennifer's estate was found liable and judgment was
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  Speaker 3: issued in favor of Helen's estate. Makes sense. Pretty clear.
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  Speaker 3: Helen's estate sought to enforce the judgment that the PR
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  Speaker 3: of Jennifer's estate, but then the PR of Jennifer's estate
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  Speaker 3: claims that the estate was insolvent. After paying for the
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: funeral expenses and defending the wrongful death action, there's no
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  Speaker 3: money left. Well, Jennifer had previously, Jennifer's the, killer in
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  Speaker 3: this case. Jennifer had previously created a revocable trust. Now,
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  Speaker 3: of course, it's irrevocable as part of her estate plan.
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  Speaker 3: And she named her 401k and her life insurance policy,
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  Speaker 3: the designated beneficiary was the trust. Interesting. Then she argues
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: that because the assets are in the trust, they are
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  Speaker 3: creditor protected. The probate court said, well, the life insurance
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  Speaker 3: is subject to the creditors, but the 401k is not. Well,
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  Speaker 3: Helen's estate's not happy with that, so they appeal. And
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: the appellate court said both the life insurance and the
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  Speaker 3: 401k are subject to the creditors. Well, Helen's estate's definitely
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: not happy with that, so they appeal to the Supreme Court.
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  Speaker 3: The Supreme Court reverses the appellate court and said both
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  Speaker 3: the life insurance and And the 401k are exempt. I
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: don't mean Helen appealing. I should say Jennifer was appealing.
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  Speaker 3: Jennifer's estate was appealing. Helen wants to collect the money.
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  Speaker 3: And so they reverse and they say both the life
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  Speaker 3: insurance and the 401k are exempt from creditors under the
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: state statutes. 401ks are exempt because it's a payment from
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: a qualified retirement plan. And life insurance is exempt because
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  Speaker 3: the proceeds are not payable to the estate. They were
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  Speaker 3: payable to the trust. As uncomfortable as this may sound
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  Speaker 3: to you, I think they got it right.
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  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 3: Assets in the probate estate. Now, it does vary by state.
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  Speaker 3: You have to check. This is subject to state law. But,
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  Speaker 3: you know, it's very possible that assets in the probate
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  Speaker 3: estate are creditors can get.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: Assets not in the probate estate, creditors can't get. Interesting, folks.
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  Speaker 3: All part of planning, just another reason to plan. In
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  Speaker 3: this case, interestingly enough, 401ks are usually rolled over into IRAs,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: and that's what our guide is about this month. Everybody
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: seems to have an IRA, right? And they're the hardest
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: asset to plan for in your estate. They just don't
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  Speaker 3: fit well. They can't put them in any trust, revocable
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  Speaker 3: or irrevocable, while you're alive. There's big income tax problems.
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  Speaker 3: But ever since the SECURE Act passed, you can name
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  Speaker 3: the estate the designated beneficiary of the IRA, but do
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  Speaker 3: it only coupled with a testamentary trust in place. And
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: this will allow you finally an opportunity to protect an
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  Speaker 3: IRA from the nursing home in advance, 50% chance at
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  Speaker 3: least of doing that with this plan. And you can
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: do it while it's still going to protect it from
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  Speaker 3: estate taxes, not create an income tax problem and provide
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: bloodline planning for the family. Call and get it. There's
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: a lot of sort of bells and whistles going on
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: here that you have to accommodate to do this. So
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. You can download it there. Again, new
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: guide for the month, 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com and learn how
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: to fit your estate plan in place with an IRA.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Or go to our Instagram page, Cushing Dolan PC, for
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: more information.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not even really sure what to say. I think
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on. She killed her mama.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: She did.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: And then herself. Uh, so obviously something wasn't right there.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Uh, what can we learn from a case like this?
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: We wonder again, it's not the fact pattern that I'm
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: focused on. It's the tips and lessons, trusts and funding.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: How often have we talked about funding and trust and
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: how important funding a trust can be? We can't say
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: it enough. Well, Here's the reason, right? First, by naming
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: the designated beneficiary on these items, your trust, right, on
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: the life insurance or the 401k or any asset, as
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: long as the beneficiary is the trust, you will avoid
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: probate on that asset. That's a big plus. Goes right
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: to there. It's not part of your estate. No, it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: part of your gross estate, but not part of your
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: probate estate. Now, 401k is your they cannot go into
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: a trust while the donor, the participant, is alive.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: It'd be a huge income tax.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: You got to get it to be an after-tax status
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: and then move it in.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: And move it in. And if you do it at
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the wrong time, you could have a penalty. I mean,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: it's just, folks, no. Hard stop. Can't do it. But remember,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: it can't be done while the participant's alive, but it
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: can get there when you die. So it's okay to
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: name the trust the beneficiary. I know we're talking about
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: naming the estate the beneficiary. You could do that too,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: but naming the trust the beneficiary. That's okay. Also, this
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: will preserve not only the 10-year payout, as long as
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: the trust is drafted correctly, it even... can hold these
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: assets in trust for the benefit of the kids and
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: still preserve the 10-year payout. So they're called accumulation trusts
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: if they're drafted right. So this way, you can get
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: both income tax and estate tax benefits by naming your
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: trust the beneficiary of your IRA.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: So then if you did any kind of divorce proofing
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: for your kids with your trust, would that still, does
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: that mean the IRA?
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's again, if I am doing divorce proofing with
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: my trust, I certainly don't want to $ 5 million IRA
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: dumped into the hands of kids over 10 years because
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: then it would be subject to divorce. This way, it's not.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: So you get all the benefits, not just the tax,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: but as you said, Susan, the creditor protection benefits go
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: with it. So great idea. Everything else, remember, we could
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: just title directly to the trust. You don't even need
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: to do this beneficiary nonsense. You can just change the name.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: On the investment account, on the bank account, and just
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: make it the trust. And so then we don't care
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: about the beneficiaries. Again, creditor protection. So not only divorce
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: proofing for the kids, but in this case, claims against
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: the estate. Now, many states might have this, Mass included.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: You generally are allowed to file claims against the estate,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: and the creditors can go after only probate assets of
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: the estate.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Medicaid estate recovery, same way. You're in the nursing home.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: They can only recover against probate assets of the estate. Well,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: when you have assets in a trust, they avoid probate.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: So if they avoid probate, they're arguably protected from the creditors.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: So to me, in this case, the argument that the
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: 401k was protected, and again, it might have been a
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: state statute, that the 401k is protected because it's a
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: payment from a qualified plan, that may be. Mm-hmm. But
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: the fact that both of them listed the trust as
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: the designated beneficiary should sufficiently be enough to qualify them
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: to be protected from creditors. Now, folks, remember, you could
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: have zero assets in your probate estate. But they're still
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: all in your gross estate. Right. I don't want you
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: to think I got a $ 5 million estate. I completely
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: avoided probate. Zero. But my gross estate is still $ 5 million.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Still taxable.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't want you to think that there is
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: a difference between those two. So, folks, call and get
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: the guide, the new guide on how to deal with
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: your IRA and make it a part of your estate plan.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Naming the estate the beneficiary of the IRA. You're going
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: to need a testamentary trust. You're going to need to
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: be age 73 or beyond to have that beneficiary change work.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: But you can do it without causing income and estate
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: tax problems and protect it from the nursing home. 866-848-5699
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: or LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: 866-848-5699. You've been listening to Todd Lutzky, a partner with
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. Todd will
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to The
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzky.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Leaving your IRA to your children may seem like the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: obvious choice, but how they receive that money could have
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: important tax consequences. Cushing and Dolan has a new guide.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Why name your estate an IRA beneficiary? Under current rules,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: most adult children who inherit an IRA must withdraw the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: money within 10 years. That could mean taking retirement distributions
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: while they're still working and earning income, potentially creating a
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: larger tax bill. That's one reason why your IRA beneficiary
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: should be part of your overall estate plan. Who receives
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the account, how they receive it, and the tax consequences
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that may follow all deserve careful consideration. Get Cushing and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Dolan's new guide called Why Name Your Estate an IRA
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Beneficiary by calling 866-848-5699.
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: That's 866-848-5699.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. The
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: You spent years preparing for retirement, but there comes a
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: point when building your savings is only part of the plan. Hi,
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: this is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Saving
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: more may provide additional financial security, but it can also
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: mean working longer than you need to. That means waiting
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: longer to enjoy what you've worked for, whether that's traveling,
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: being with family, or simply having more freedom to decide
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: how you spend your time. These are some of the
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: ideas included in our new guide, Five Hidden Costs of
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: Saving Too Much for Retirement. A retirement plan shouldn't just
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: tell you how much money to save. It should help
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: you understand what that money can allow you to do
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: and when you may be in a position to start
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: doing it. Get your free copy today by calling Armstrong
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Advisory Group at 800-393-4001.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: That's 800-393-4001. Or you can request the guide at armstrongadvisory.com.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: advisory services.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: For many Massachusetts veterans, getting to a medical appointment isn't
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: always easy. That's why the Disabled American Veterans Department of
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: Massachusetts provides free transportation to VA medical appointments through its
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: network of dedicated drivers. Every mile helps a veteran get
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: the care they've earned through their service. You can help
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: by volunteering or making a donation. Learn more at DAVMA.org.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: That's DAVMA.org.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Who gets your IRA when you pass may seem like
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a simple decision, but the name on that beneficiary form
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: can have a big impact on what happens to those assets.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan has a new guide, Why Name Your
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Estate an IRA Beneficiary. Naming your spouse directly may provide
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: certain tax advantages and give them full access to the account,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: but it could also leave those assets exposed if your
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: spouse needs nursing home care in the future. Another option
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: is to have your IRA pass through your estate. With
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: the right planning in place, that could provide additional asset
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: protection and help address estate taxes. The right choice depends
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: on your circumstances, and understanding the differences is important. Get
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: your free guide today by calling Cushing & Dolan at 866-848-5699.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: That's 866-848-5699. Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated. You're listening to The Legal Exchange,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: and it's time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: will answer your questions about anything and everything that's included
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: in the estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd Lutzke
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and Susan Powers.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Anthony in Dover, Mass., and Anthony writes,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: My mother passed away a few weeks ago. Her home
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: is in her irrevocable trust but had a mortgage, so
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: there was a life estate. My siblings are eager to
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: get their inheritance, and I have a buyer lined up
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: for her home. How do I handle the sale now?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I am the only trustee.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: So you should read the trust first and foremost. Let's
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: assume you can do it. I know you can do it.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: This is one of your trusts, by the way. This
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: is a mutual client.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: And good. And even if it wasn't. But in this case,
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: even better. But I know the trust has the ability
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: to sell the property. That's not the issue. But there
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: might be language in there that says... treat everybody equally fine.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: But then it might say, hold everything in trust and
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: protect it from creditors. Well, that's one thing. If that's
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: the case, then yes, the trust should sell the property.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: But again, there might be language that says it only
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: gets sold if none of the kids want it. So
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: let the kids first decide. If they want it, they
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: can buy out the interest of the other one. So
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: these are some things for you to think about, Anthony.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: you know, before you sell it, just read the document
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: and understand that language. So if it's there, it's going
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: to say, if all kids want it, then they get
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: it and they can decide what they want to do
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: with it, which might include selling it. But then all three,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: if there's three, would have to decide. If anyone doesn't
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: want it, then the ones who want it can buy
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: out the interest of the ones who don't. And that
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: takes care of your concern about selling the property, Anthony.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: They're buying it.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants it. Then the trust says it must be sold. Well,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: now the trustee of the trust, Anthony, you followed the
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: rules and you can sell it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: And as trustee, you might want to sell it. You
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: have two options, though. If all the assets are held
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: in trust, then the trustee is going to have to
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: sell it. But if it says divide everything and pay
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: it out, well, then you could divide it and pay
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: it out, right? But I think if the trusts... And
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: then the kids would all sell it.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Then you have three names that have to sign it. Yeah,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: it's a little more complicated. But I think if it says...
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants it, and the trust says then the trust
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: must sell it. Well, then I think the trust has
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: to sell it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: And I don't think anybody in this situation wants it.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: They all live, they're all kind of scattered and stuff.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: So where she had a life estate, because she had
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: a mortgage, is there any special considerations for that?
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great question. So the answer is no, because the
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: moment she dies, the life estate is gone. Immediately dissolves
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: by itself. And 100% of the property is now owned
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: by the trust.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Now, the mortgage may still need to be paid off. Obviously,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: if there's an outstanding balance on the mortgage, the mortgage
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: company is going to pursue the note. And so, yeah,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: we're going to have to pay it off. And you
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: could do that from the sale proceeds. Yeah. So in
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: this case, now the house would need to be sold.
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: And the trustee, Anthony, you could do it. Makes it
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: a little easier, I sense. You're going to have to
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: get an ID number for the trust to receive the proceeds,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: but It is what it is.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they already have that because they
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: do have some assets in the trust as well.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, but remember, she died, so you now need a
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: new ID number.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: A new tax ID number, yeah.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Because it's no longer a grant or trust, so you
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: would get a new tax ID number.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Do they need that before they sell?
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: You know, I would think that they... I would say yes.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, is it possible to file it and just
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: be done with it with the old one? It might work,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: but to me, technically, you need a new ID number,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: and then the trust would receive the money. Mm-hmm. And
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: then it would go into a trust account and then
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: you read the document and the trust says what happens.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Pay it out to the kids. If that's what it says,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: then three checks are written and it's paid out. But remember,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: from an income tax perspective, even though we had to
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: get a tax ID number and probably need to file
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: a tax return for the trust, the gain is going
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: to be what? Zero.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: No tax because there would have been a full step
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: up in basis on the death of... the grantor in
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: this case of the trust. So good, pretty easy to do.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: The paperwork's the same, just follow the instructions. And I
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: think it'll be good to go.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Perfect folks.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: That's how it works when you plan, but there's one
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: item that's always complicated when you're doing your estate plan
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: and it's your IRA. And most of us have one.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: So if you ever wanted to learn how to protect
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: an IRA from the nursing home in advance, or at
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: least give yourself a chance to protect it in advance,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: since you cannot, And how also to fit it into
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: your estate plan so that you can get better estate
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: tax savings and nursing home protection at the same time
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: without incurring an income tax problem. This guide is for you.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Because remember, if you just leave your IRA to your spouse,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: it's going to be taxed when your spouse dies and
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: it's not sheltered for estate taxes. Naming the estate the
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: beneficiary of your IRA coupled with a testamentary trust We'll
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: do all three of those for you. Call and get
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: the guide, folks. It's relatively new. It's only been around
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: since 2022. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again, 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Or
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: you could go to Cushing Dolan PC and see our
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Instagram page for more.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Last question comes from Paul in Plymouth mass and Paul writes,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: my wife has been declining quickly with dementia and I
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: was recently diagnosed with cancer. We do have a revocable
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: trust and our basic documents taken care of. I'm concerned
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: with what will happen to my wife if I pre-decease
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: her because she cannot live alone. Is there anything from
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: a legal perspective I should consider putting in place in
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: case I die first?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a kind of a tough one. Um, I mean,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I guess in this case, if you have like an
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: IRA or an IRA account, this might be a great idea.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: As long as you're competent, you can set up the
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: designated beneficiary in a testamentary trust. And actually, you can
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: put more things in the testamentary trust than just an IRA.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: So if we know somebody is going to pass... sooner
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: rather than later, like perhaps in this case, and the
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: wife who is declining but healthy just with dementia could
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: end up in a nursing home for a long time.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: You can just set up a testamentary trust and put
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: as many assets into your name as possible. Individually. Individually.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: This would be the husband's name.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: Paul, yeah.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Right? Paul.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Paul.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Into your name individually. Now that's going to mean a
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: probate estate. I get it, but I don't care if
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: it's going to go to probate. No big deal. We'll,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: we'll deal with it. We'll put it off. So when
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: you die, everything will flow into your will. It's, it's,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: I call it a testamentary trust, but I didn't learn
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: all the big words in law school. So let's just
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: call it a, let's just call it a will trust, right?
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: It's a trust, you know, built in to a will and,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: and this will trust then we'll have language that will say,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Marital share, remainder share. It'll shelter assets for estate tax purposes.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Just like the trust we talk about all the time.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I'll call them living trusts. The ones that are done
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: while you're alive. Remember, the testamentary trust doesn't exist till
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: you die because it's in your will. And the will
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: doesn't speak until you're dead. So now all these assets
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: will funnel into your will trust on the date of death.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Sheltered from estate taxes. providing payments out in the trustee's
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: sole discretion, both income and principal, to the wife in
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: this case, so she can enjoy the assets that are
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: in there, but she doesn't own them, sheltered from estate taxes,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: and most importantly, there is no five-year waiting period for her.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: So if she got sick and went into the nursing
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: home right after he died because she can't live a
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: home alone, which sounds like is the case here. Well,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: immediately she could go in a month later and all
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: the assets in that testamentary trust, while available to her,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: are not at risk for the nursing home at all.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: So while available to her, so even if they decided
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: to go into not a Medicaid facility- Like assisted living. Yeah,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: like assisted living. They could use those assets to private
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: pay without restriction, and then they're still protected if she
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: needs more.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Absolutely right. That's why we use the special language, sole discretion,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: et cetera. Folks, naming the estate the beneficiary of your
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: IRA can have many benefits. Call and get the guide
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: and learn how it works for you. 866- 848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com and download it right there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: visit his website at LegalExchangeShow.com and click on the Ask
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Todd tab. Maybe I'll be able to read your question
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: on the air and hopefully his answer will stop you
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: from becoming one of his next real-life stories. You've been
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: listening to Todd Lutzky, a partner with the law firm
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back with more
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: after this quick break on The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzky.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Leaving your IRA to your children may seem like the
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: obvious choice, but how they receive that money could have
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: important tax consequences. Cushing and Dolan has a new guide.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Why name your estate an IRA beneficiary? Under current rules,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: most adult children who inherit an IRA must withdraw the
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: money within 10 years. That could mean taking retirement distributions
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: while they're still working and earning income, potentially creating a
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: larger tax bill. That's one reason why your IRA beneficiary
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: should be part of your overall estate plan. Who receives
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the account, how they receive it, and the tax consequences
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that may follow all deserve careful consideration. Get Cushing and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Dolan's new guide called Why Name Your Estate an IRA
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Beneficiary by calling 866-848-5699.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: That's 866-848-5699.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. The
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: You've been saying one more year for the past five
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: years and now. You're still sitting in the same traffic,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: taking the same exits, wondering when work finally becomes optional.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: At the Armstrong Advisory Group, we help people create personalized
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: retirement plans so they can better understand their income, investments, taxes,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: and Social Security strategy. Don't say one more year again
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: without learning about these issues so you can make the
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: most educated decision for yourself and your family. The proceeding
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a registered... at armstrongadvisory.com.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: That's armstrongadvisory.com. The Armstrong Advisory Group. We answer only to you.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Who you name as the beneficiary of your IRA can
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: affect more than who gets the money. Cushing and Dolan's guide,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Why Name Your Estate an IRA Beneficiary, explains how that
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: decision can affect taxes, asset protection, and what's ultimately left
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: for your family. Get the guide today by calling 866-848-5699
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: or request it online at LegalExchangeShow.com. The proceedings paid for
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Our nation's veterans answered the call to serve. Today, the
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts is there to support
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: our veterans through benefits assistance, transportation services, advocacy, and community outreach.
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: Their mission is to ensure no veteran has to face
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: life's challenges alone. You can make a difference by volunteering
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: for the DAV Massachusetts or making a donation. Learn more
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: at davma.org.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: You're tuned to The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. If
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you or a loved one needs a nursing home stay,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: call Todd right now at 866-848-5699 and let him make
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: sure your assets are protected. That's 866-848-5699 or visit him
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: online at LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course, by Todd Lutzke, a partner
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing & Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So, Todd, this guide that you have,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I like to view this one as the loophole guide.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: That's a good name.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: You know how much I enjoy a loophole.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: You do.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: You do.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: So, these testamentary trusts, you know, who should really consider...
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: naming their estate, their beneficiaries.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: So if you're going to be doing nursing home planning,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: so if you're doing just revocable trust planning, this is
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: not for you. It's not an issue. But when you're
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: coming in and you're finding that the plan we're trying
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: to put in place is going to accomplish not just
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: probate avoidance, but estate tax savings, which are usually the
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: top two, but we also want to add nursing home
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: protection into that mix. Well, once you add nursing home
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: protection in and you now know you're shifting to irrevocable trusts,
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: now you want to consider this idea of naming the
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: estate the beneficiary. That's just the first step in considering that.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: naming the estate the primary beneficiary of your IRA.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: So instead of your spouse, which is typically what we say.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Right. I'm so glad you picked up on that. That's
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: why I said primary beneficiary. Normally it would be the spouse.
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Okay. This is very different.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: So you can't just decide to do this. Like if
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: someone's listening and they say, oh, I'm just going to
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: change my beneficiary and my IRA to my estate and
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: that's going to automatically protect it from the nursing. You
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: can't just Do that if you don't have the legal
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: documents to back it.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Up, right? Well, and there's actually more criteria even than that.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: So you're right. You can't just say, oh, I don't
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: need the guide. I'll just do what he said.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: So no do-it-yourself here.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Please don't run down and say, I'll just go see
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: my financial advisor. And I could just put the estate
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: of Todd, you know, whatever your name is. Estate of
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: Todd Lutzky as beneficiary. No. So one, yes, you need
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: to be thinking in terms of, I want to protect
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: assets from the nursing home. Again, if you don't, you
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: don't even need to consider this. Okay, I'm past that stage.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: What's the next thing I need to consider? Well, you
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: need to be age 73 or beyond. How come? I'm
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: picking 73 because that's most people. But that age kind
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: of fluctuates based on how old you are now. So
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: you have to be RMD age.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Someone who's 40 now might not be 73, might not
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: be the RMD age. So the RBD, which is the
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: required beginning date.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: So the RBD for most people, I don't know.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Anyone born before 1960 right now. Your required beginning date
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: is 73.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Before 1960.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Before 60. Anything. Anyone after 60, it's 75.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Okay. So the RBD for many people that we talk
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: about anyway would be 73. Yep. So you need to
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: make sure you've reached the RBD, whatever that is for you,
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: 73 or 75, before you physically change the beneficiary. Because
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: if you don't, then you have an income tax problem.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: With your IRA. Remember, IRAs are all about income tax problems.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: So it's this magic age of 73 that allows you
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: to change the beneficiary to the estate of, provided you
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: want to protect it from a nursing home. And then
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: you're even going to need more documents than that. But
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: that's at least the first two prongs. Otherwise, if you
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: died and the beneficiary was the estate, Before you reach
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: the RBD age, then the payouts are going to come
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: out over five years.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Ooh, that could be trouble.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: That could be a huge income tax problem. Not so
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: much once you reach the RBD. Folks, those are just
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: two of the criteria. A lot of balls in the
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: air here when you're dealing with naming your estate the beneficiary.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: of your IRA. Those are just two requirements. You got
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: to have a testamentary trust. You have to have the
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: idea of what's the size of your estate. You want
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: to make sure that you don't trigger an income tax problem,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: but at the same time, you want it to be
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: sheltered from estate taxes. You want it to be available
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: to the spouse and you want to protect it from
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: the nursing home. You can do all of those, but
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: you need to make sure you understand how to do
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: it and all the right documents in place. How to
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: name your estate, the beneficiary for your IRA. Call and
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: get the guide, folks. It's new for the month and
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: new in general. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again, 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: And you can also go to Cushing, Dolan, PC for
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: more information.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: So big flashing red sign, documents first. That has to
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: be done first. You have to have your, are you
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: doing this through your trust? Are you doing this through
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: your will? How do you actually establish this testamentary trust?
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: So to recap, you have to be wanting to protect
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: assets from the nursing home and you need to be
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: 73 or meet their RBD. Now, folks, you might be
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: 65 and say, but Todd, I still want to protect
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: this from the nursing home.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: Fine.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: We're going to set up the next requirement at that
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: time called a testamentary trust. So we are going to
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: set up a testamentary trust. even if you're 65 and
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: you're doing this. But what we won't do is we
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: won't change the designated beneficiary on the IRA until you
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: turn 73. But then you're all set. Everything's in place, right?
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: All you have to do is, everybody says, how am
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: I going to remember? You're going to remember because your
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: financial guy is going to tell you, you need to
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: take minimum distributions now. And as soon as you know
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: you need to take minimum distributions, you're going to remember,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, I need to change my designated beneficiary. So
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: it's not hard to forget. So So designated beneficiary and
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: wanting to do it. Then we start the planning. In
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: the planning process, not only will we be setting up
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: irrevocable trusts for other assets, houses, rental, et cetera, we
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: will then set up in the will a testamentary trust.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: So that's that, I like to call it a will
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: built into a trust or a will trust.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: And that will be built into the will ready to
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: receive the IRA benefits when you die, if you die
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: and never go to a nursing home, right?
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Which is our goal anyway. So then those assets will
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: flow into this testamentary trust. And it's that testamentary trust
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: that provides all of these tax benefits, nursing home benefits,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: et cetera, and control benefits.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: So Todd, I think about those folks out there that
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: have worked with you that have done revocable trust planning,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: perhaps because they had such large IRAs that couldn't be
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: protected in advance. So this is something, this strategy has
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: really only been in place for what, three or four
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: years now, give or take?
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty new.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: So if someone did revocable trust planning and they say, hey,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: you mean there's something I can do if I have
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: a large IRA now to potentially protect that? Can they
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: go back?
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: Hmm.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Can change their will to say... So.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: This is kind of a loaded question, I think. So
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: let's not make it such a broad sweeping comment. Let's
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: say if you've done irrevocable trust planning in the past
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: and you say, yeah, Todd, I've got my irrevocable trust
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: in place, but you're right, we never put our IRA
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: in because we couldn't and we still can't. But you're
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: telling me now there's a way where I can adjust...
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe I'm over 73 and I can now
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: adjust my plan to accommodate myself. IRA. For those people,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: I'm going to say yes.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: If it's, if it's a large enough, you know, it's
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: nice IRA, nice size IRA, and you want to come
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: in and redo your will and get a testamentary trust
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: built into your will for you and your spouse. And
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: you would only do this if you're married.
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: That's another requirement. You would never do this if you're single.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I would say, yes, that might be something that you
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: might want to explore. Back to your comment. If I
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: did revocable trust planning in the past, I might have
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: done it because my estate is large enough that I
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: don't need nursing home planning.
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: So that if I don't need nursing home planning, right,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: then no, there's no reason to be running in and
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: changing it. Now that said, if you've done revocable trust
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: planning years ago, but your estate is, you know, maybe
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: under 4 million and you say, I just want to
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: switch because I'm older. Well, then we can do a
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: whole new plan for you. And then we would incorporate
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: the new will trust built in as well.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Lots to learn.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: Folks, yeah, I can't even say enough about it. But
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: just get the guide, how to name your estate, the
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: IRA beneficiary is your estate. It's a complex issue. IRAs,
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: everybody has one. And you want to learn how to
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: fit it into your plan.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: 866-848-7000.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: 848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again, 866-848-5699.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutzke from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for listening, and we'll be back again
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: next week on The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Leaving your IRA to your children may seem like the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: obvious choice, but how they receive that money could have
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: important tax consequences. Cushing and Dolan has a new guide.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Why name your estate an IRA beneficiary? Under current rules,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: most adult children who inherit an IRA must withdraw the
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: money within 10 years. That could mean taking retirement distributions
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: while they're still working and earning income, potentially creating a
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: larger tax bill. That's one reason why your IRA beneficiary
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: should be part of your overall estate plan. Who receives
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the account, how they receive it, and the tax consequences
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: that may follow all deserve careful consideration. Get Cushing and
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Dolan's new guide called Why Name Your Estate an IRA
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Beneficiary by calling 866-848-5699.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: That's 866-848-5699.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. The
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Seeing some high volume out there on those roads.
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: Today, folks.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Sound familiar?
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: The Braintree split is backed up.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: If your commute feels endless, it might be time to
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: ask a bigger question. Are you working because you want
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: to or because you think you have to? At the
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Armstrong Advisory Group, our financial advisors help individuals and families
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: build retirement income plans designed around their goals, savings, Social Security,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: investments and overall financial picture. Retirement shouldn't be a guessing game.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: If you're concerned about what path you're on or have
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: questions about your financial plan, we may be able to help.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Visit armstrongadvisory.com and schedule a no-obligation meeting. The Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: We answer only to you. Schedule your meeting today at armstrongadvisory.com.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: That's armstrongadvisory.com.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Who you name as the beneficiary of your
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: IRA can affect more than who gets the money. Christian
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Dolan's guide, Why Name Your Estate an IRA Beneficiary, explains
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: how that decision can affect taxes, asset protection, and what's
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: ultimately left for your family. Get the guide today by
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: calling 866-848-5699 or request it online at LegalExchangeShow.com. The proceedings
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: paid for and the views expressed are solely those of
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing and
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: are not affiliated.
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: Our nation's veterans answered the call to serve. Today, the
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts is there to support
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: our veterans through benefits assistance, transportation services, advocacy, and community outreach.
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: Their mission is to ensure no veteran has to face
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: life's challenges alone. You can make a difference by volunteering
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: for the DAV Massachusetts or making a donation. Learn more
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: at davma.org.