Latest / Recovery Chronicles / Recovery Chronicles Ep. 191 - Alex Schilling

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Recovery Chronicles Ep. 191 - Alex Schilling · Recovery Chronicles

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Recovery Chronicles. I'm your host, Liz, an addiction
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: counselor at Hertview in Bismarck, North Dakota. This podcast is
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: dedicated to the real human stories of people in recovery
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: from alcohol and other drugs. People who have chosen change
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and who wake up every day walking that journey. These
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: are stories of hope, healing and resilience and proof that
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: transformation is possible. All right, I'm back and continuing on
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: with introducing everyone to Heartview staff members, and today I
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: have Alex with me. Hello, welcome Alex. What is your
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: role at Heartfield.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm Alex and I'm a licensed addiction counselor at Heartfew.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, what inspired you to work in addiction treatment?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I think I've always just been a helper.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So I was.
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  Speaker 2: That's what I went to school for. I went to
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: school Force for Psychology and Criminal Justice with the full
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: intent to go into law enforcement. Fortunately I was able to.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I had to, but I got to do an internship
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: and I chose to do it at the prison and
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I got to hear real stories from real people, not
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: just textbook education. I got to hear their life their
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: experiences and that shifted my mindset where I want to
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: go into addiction. I want to help and not you know,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I want to focus on that side of things, helping
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: in addiction. And it inspired me to deal with real
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: people all the time, not just laws or you know,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: whatever you read or you know what society thinks of you.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, real people, real life, and we definitely do that
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: lots of different people. What keeps you coming back to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: work on the hard days?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: My clients there, I joke with them that I have
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: my smart watch monitors my stress and I tell them
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: that it gives me the lowest stress points when I'm
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: in group with them. And that's true. Like that's not
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: a lot. I'm not feeding them full of anything. Like,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: it's true. The laughs that we have, the fellowship, the advice,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: the you know, the trust, it's huge for me. It
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: makes it all worth it when they I mean, even
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: on hard days, but then they come and they tell
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: you something that was big for them, whether it's big
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: wins or hard days, and they just trust you with
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: that makes it all worth it.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I love that that was such an easy answer for you,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: all so easy.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Them they're they're they're why I keep coming back without them.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: What's the point. Yeah, Yeah, what is a common myth
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: about addiction that you would wish would just disappear?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, That it's a choice. That addiction is a choice.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: People you know, choose it. That's how they want to be.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: It's the wayre their life. My other one that I
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: thought of was that it only affects a certain like demographic.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah that if you come from you know, traditional family,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: you know, good values, Uh, successful career, you know all
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: this good stuff, that you won't be affected. Addiction has
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: a bias no and none. So I think just getting
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: that out of your head is is like the point,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: you know, like you need to find the rood of it.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: That it's not a choice, right right, Yeah, it's not
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: a choice. And I think it is important to remember
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: too that addiction doesn't care. It doesn't care what your
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: background is. You know, what your education is Homonians.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how many years of experience that you have in life,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: whether it's good or bad.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, you could be a CEO of a company, go
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: to church every Sunday, you know, beautiful wife or husband,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever it is, kids, and you can still
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: be affected.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Yeah, it does not matter. Yeah, and
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it doesn't. And it I've known people that have had
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: successful careers and then way later on in life, after
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: they've retired, right then they become affected by it. Right.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: It could be you know, one small thing.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Granted, I mean everyone has factors such as you know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: like genetics, or the environment that they're placed in with
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  Speaker 2: or without, you know, their own choice, whatever their upbringing,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: traumas that occur, Like, it doesn't matter at what point
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  Speaker 2: in your life even if everything's been good for twenty
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  Speaker 2: five years, you're twenty six.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Could could affect you?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, seventy three, you know, it doesn't It doesn't matter,
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's one of the toughest moments you've had in
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: this field?
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  Speaker 2: Like I said before, I kind of think of a
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: specific moment. But like I said before, I'm a helper,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: and I think coming to terms in the field that
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: we're in that you can't help everyone all the time
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: or with everything, especially in our role, like we can
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: only do so much. Like I can help you clinically
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: with your substance use, and I want to help you
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: with finances, children, employment, housing, all the things that I
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: can only do so much and that's hard because I
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: see the progress that this client, this person is making,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: and life might just you know, keep kicking them while
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: they're down. Like you're doing the things, you're working on
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: your recovery, and you just need something somewhere, whether you
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: know it's employee and housing and finance whatever, to your
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: break and it's not right now, and I can't help you.
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  Speaker 1: And that's hard. That's hard. That is hard, and especially
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: like you said, when they are doing all these wonderful
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: things and then they feel like life keeps pushing them backwards.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: And so then it's this constant fight of well, I
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: can't do it right because I'm struggling to find enployment,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: so I can't pay my bills, I can't nobody wants
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: to rent to me because I have a criminal history
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: or I don't have a good renting history. So then
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: they come into to us and they're defeated.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just want to give up, or and
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: you have to like remind them or give them those
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: golden nuggets of no small winds are important, or keep
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: going because if you quit now, then none of that
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: will be possible. Or you might give that up, or
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: you might hear good news tomorrow. But if you give
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: up today, then.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: What right now? It's hard, It's so hard. How do
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: you avoid burnout or compassion fatigue?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: My son, he fills my cup.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Gosps I.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: He refilled every cup of empathy and patience and tolerance,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: like all the things. He filled my cup for being
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: my helper, I caregiver, all the things. So when I'm
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: feeling like life is too much, or I'm burnt out,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: or you know, just not wanting to maybe not do
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: this role in that moment because it was a bad day,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I look at my son and yeah, he fills my
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: cup up again and be like, you know what, my
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: clients were babies once somebody loves them.
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  Speaker 1: I love them. I love my son. You know all
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: the things.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I jokingly have, you know, good coffee, good food, those
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: fill my cup, you know, help as self care, watching
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: a good show, and then just in general like my family,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: calling my mom my mom's my person to go to
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: as well. Oh.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I also I love that you can correlate your son
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: to your clients in a way that they are somebody's son,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: they are somebody's daughter, They're somebody's mom or dad, somebody's sister,
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  Speaker 1: somebody's brother. Yeah, somebody's friend, somebody out there who loves
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and cares about you. Yeah, you're a person. You're somebody's person, right,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So I love that you can kind of make that
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: connection because it can be so easy to just fall
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: into this pattern of the in and out and the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: revolving door of people coming and people going and people
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: moving on. And now I have somebody new on my
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: caseload and taking that moment to kind of stop and
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: remember that they are people and that they matter right
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: in this world. Right.
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  Speaker 2: I think we get to a point with that unfortunate
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: revolving door of clients, and that's the.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Job we do.
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  Speaker 2: Like that, people come and go, but you start to
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: see the addiction the substance, not the human, not the person,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: not somebody's person.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think just like leveling myself out a bit,
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  Speaker 2: you know, reminding myself their people, their feelings. They you know,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: they have their own shoes, their own life, their own thing.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Here we are start. Yeah, Yeah, sometimes I think I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: need that reminder. So I'm gonna come find you next
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: time I need that reminder, Dale, Dale, What is it
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: something you wish families understood about recovery?
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  Speaker 2: Sounds cheesy, but it's not because it's true. If you
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: haven't heard of the three c's that alan On covers,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and if you don't know what allan On is, allan
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  Speaker 2: On is like AA but for family members of addiction.
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  Speaker 2: So you're not getting like the first hand the users,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you know, the bad experience, like you're not the one
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: using yourself. You are the family member of the addiction.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Addictions of family disease. So I really look at alan
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: On because, like I said, addictions of family disease. So
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: one thing that they reference in there's a three c's.
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  Speaker 2: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: can't cure it. It's not personal. They're not you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: your family member with addiction or you know, your friend
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: or whatever it may be to you, you know, in
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: relation to you.
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  Speaker 1: They're not.
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  Speaker 2: Out to get you with it, you know, and they.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Have to want it.
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  Speaker 2: It's almost it's a condition, like it's a disease. You
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: can't you know, blame someone for like having cancer, you know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and we have treatments, we have things, but you know,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: they have to want it themselves, and it's not personal.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: It's not personal, and they need to seek the help
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: for themselves too, and you can't cure it, in the
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: fact that you physically can't cure it. Yeah, and I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: mean there's discussion on if there's if there's a cure
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: for addiction or not. I you know, people battle it
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: every day. Some people, you know, kick it to the
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: curb and never think about it ever again. Like it's
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: not cookie cutter. But as a family member to someone
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: with addiction, you didn't cause it, you can't control it,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: you can't hear it.
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  Speaker 1: As somebody in recovery. I've never heard that before.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Really, No, I love it because you know, I mean, well,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: people listening don't know. I don't have the first hand
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: experience and addiction. I have the friends and family or
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you know is coming from a small town you know
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: who's doing what you know. So I enjoy bringing the
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Alann perspective to my clients, to my group members, like, hey,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: this is where your family standing when they're worried about you,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: when they want to help you.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was That's really kind of powerful for
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: me because not only do I am I in recovery,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: so I have been in active addiction and have some
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: sobriety time under my belt, but I also have family
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: members that are still in active addiction, and even as
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: somebody that understands the addiction piece, I still take on
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that role of fix it. I want to fix it
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and I want to fix it for you because I'm
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: in recovery and now I'm a counselor and I love
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: you and I want to fix you.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And I highlight that too with my group members. I
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: was like, even though you are the ones struggling now,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: or maybe you're doing well right now, but we're still here, right,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: We're still in treatment.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: One day you may have.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: That friend or family who's struggling, and it's important to
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: see all aspects.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: All angles and know again it's not personal.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: You can you can care for someone and you know,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: set those boundaries and not enable and you know all
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the things, and you can't fix it. Yeah you can help, right,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: but you can't cure it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: You know, you can't do it for them. Yeah you can't.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And I know. And my mom is also in recovery too,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and she has said for so many years that she
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: just wanted to love it away. Yeah you can't. No,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, why why isn't my love enough?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Or do this for me? Doesn't work like that, which
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: so I really like that from the allen On perspective because,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: like I said, I haven't I've gone through the other
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: side of it, right, And it's different having been in
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: active addiction and now in recovery and having somebody that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I love in active addiction versus not having that. And
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: so I love that I get to work alongside counselors
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that don't have that piece of it.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Different perspectives and dynamics. I love those pieces when working
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: with micro remembers too, because obviously they have the first
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: hand I learned from them, they learn from me.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: It's it's great, it's beautiful. Really yeah, yeah, I feel
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: very blessed that I get to work alongside counselors. I
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: think I've told you this before that you are on
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: my list of like counselors that I would hand pick
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: for a family member of mine that came through harview
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: because you have this passion and this the way that
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: you approach it is just unseen to me. Thank you.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: So it is. It's and then the fact that you
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: bring in the allen No piece to your group. I
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: don't think that happens enough.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I don't from what I've gathered from them because I mean,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: sometimes it's their first treatment experience. Sometimes it's their twentieth.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Who knows. You know, a lot of.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Them are just like, why do we do this? And
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: so it is a fresh perspective for them. Yeah, but Andy,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: it grows up to them. You know, they're not too
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: fond of it right away, but it grows on them truly.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And in the family piece is so different now than
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: like you said, some of these people have done treatment
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: a number of times before, and so they have this
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: negative connotation of bringing their families in because my family's
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: gonna come in and shame me for an hour, Yeah,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: in front of my group and my peers and my
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: counselor and tell me every crappy thing that I've ever
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: done in my entire life. I know, the crappy things
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I've done. Please don't remind me I was there. Yeah.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So I really like that you bring that piece to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: them so they can kind of understand their family's aspect too,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: because their families are going through this, they are right
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: along with them.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: They might not be, you know, the first hand users, right,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: they're getting the second hand exposure. They're still stressing and using,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and they might be displaying different behaviors like hiding things
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: not to trigger something else, you know, maybe some line manipulation.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I compare it to like if you're family members is
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the Allen Honors is I don't even know if that's
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: a term, but that's what I you know, coin it
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: in the group. Like if if you're an Allen Honor
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: and you are focusing around behaviors you are displaying like
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: dry drunk behaviors You're not using, right, but you might lie,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: cheap manipulate to try to get things to go your
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: way as a sense of control, right, you know. And
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I mean that's not for everyone, and not everyone who
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: is struggling with addiction acts like that either.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: It's just you have to take care of yourself and
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: you have to understand where you're at and acknowledge your
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: feelings and your actions in the first place. To even
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: be able to help that family member who is struggling
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: with addiction, you still need to have insight into yourself.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Right, what advice would you give to someone who is
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: supporting a loved one in recovery?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Educate yourself on addiction first thing. I mean, there's so
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: many stigmas, myths, stereotypes.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: This is a choice. They're being selfish.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Why can't they stop? It changes the brain, even if
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: it was initial choice, like hey, I'm gonna go dabble
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: here and there, Like, it changes the.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Brain to the point where it's not a choice. Right,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it's not choice.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: You're rewiring yourself right, Like I said, like practicing your
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: own self care, like queuing into your own needs and motives.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And where you're acts is huge.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Like you can't take care of anyone else or help
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: anyone else if you're you know, not helping yourself. So
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: self care would be a big thing. And then I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: did touch on this a little bit earlier. But setting
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: boundaries is okay. You know, there is a difference between
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: caring and enabling, but it doesn't always have to be
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: tough love either, Like it's okay to set boundaries.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Boundaries are good. Boundaries are really good. They are really
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: good regardless of whether or not you struggle with a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: substance use disorder or you don't. That's one thing that
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I really push with my group and my clients is
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that any type of relationship, regardless of its you know, family, friends, romantic, employer, coworkers,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: you have to have boundaries in there. Yes, it's and
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's where a lot of families do struggle
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: with setting those boundaries and remembering that if you set
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: a tough boundary, it doesn't mean that you love them
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: any less.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Right, right, it's not giving up on them, it's not Yeah,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be like full tough love.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: You're not being rude, you know.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, You're setting a boundary to better help the relationship.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: And depending on the boundary, like helping your family member,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: your friend, you.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Know, right, and then that's okay, that's okay, that's love. Yep. Yeah.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: How do you handle setbacks or relapses with clients? We
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: process through it, you know.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I think they're so used to a negative response, so
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: when they say something like oh I used last night,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and I just kind of sit and look at them
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: a little bit. They stare back at me like they're
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: trying to read like when I'm going to blow up? Yeah,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: you know, they're always looking for a shame on you
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: or what the heck?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Then I just kind of go like, well, what happened,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and we process through it, and maybe if they're trying
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to rush through the details, I'm like, okay, I know,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: like what led up to it? How did you feel?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: You know? Then we used and then you know, the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: clinical side.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Of me, and you know, medical is like okay, how
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: much how you know, like if something's going to go
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: south right now, let me help you. You know, yeah,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: are there are there concerns you that we need to
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: be worried about? Right, so you get the logistics out
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: of the way. But truly it's like processing through it.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: And I always go and I know I always do this,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: but now what and they look at me, no, what, like,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: what's next? What's your plan? Whether that entails? Do do
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: you still want to be sober? Or what are we
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: going to do?
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: What can you do better?
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe next time? You know, dependent on the story and
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the person. You know, some of them want that tough love,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: that assertive you know, okay, here's what we can do better,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and someone just some of them just want the listening.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Ear you know, I know what I could have done,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: but can you just hear me out?
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Of course? Yeah, just processing through it and then what's next?
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: What comes next? Where do we go from here?
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: It's and I heard just recently from somebody that it's
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: better to start a new sobriety date than end with
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: a death date. Yeah, and I thought that was that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: was so powerful and remembering that just because you your
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: date starts over, the hard work that you put in
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: does not go away. No, you've still learned all those
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: coping skills. Maybe you didn't use them right, but you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: still know them.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: The next guy, I always say, you know, put that
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: little that little bit there in your recovery toolbox.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Let's let's whip that out next time.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: People say, and I don't disagree with this, but a
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: client shifted a little bit, so the saying is relapses
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: a part of recovery. I had a client say, I
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: don't like that, Alex, I don't believe that. I refuse
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to acknowledge that relapse is a lack of recovery. So
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: where can I improve? Whether it's I'm getting complacent on
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: meetings or you know what, I skip group this week
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: saying I was sick but I really wasn't. Or I
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: didn't reach out to my sponsor or my mom or
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: my brother, you know whoever, whatever, where was I lacking?
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: What can I improve on? And I like that? I
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: you know too, What what next? You know?
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: What next?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What now right, where do we go? Now? Yep?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Where do you want to go?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: What do you want?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And I think that's important for people, that person, that client,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: whoever you are, to acknowledge like what do I want?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Now? Where do I go from here? Yeah? And I
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and I've heard in my clients have talked a lot
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: about the relapse is part of recovery thing. And we
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: recently watched a movie where it was said in the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: movie and then the next response was, well, that's like
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: saying crashing a plane is part of pilot training.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, good movie, good movie.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: And there again it's not. It's not the training. And
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: you do go through a certain amount of training where yes,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: you do crash, but not like an actual physical plane.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: But it's a simulator where chances are you're probably gonna crash.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Right right, And I well, even with a plane crash
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and even with the using that might not be a
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: next time, you know, like that might be a one
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: and done. So let's acknowledge that it's not like crashing
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: a plane, although it could be like crashing a plane.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Except there might not be a next Yeah.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: You know, right, So I'm not a posed to relapse
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: is a part of recovery. But I do like, you know,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be yes, it doesn't have to
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: be no. I'm you know, there's it happens, yes, no shame.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: We're working hard progress that perfection is you know, like
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: my right term there, Yes, but you know, I don't
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: think it's the greatest.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Right, And I agree with the and I really like
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: the relapse is a lack of recovery. I like that
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: much better. And I know I was told in the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: beginning of my sobriety. Is the best time for me
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to go to a meeting is when I don't want
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: to go Yep, yep.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: The best time to yeah, call your friend, call your sponsor,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: go to church, go to a meeting, come to group,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: you know, is exactly.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: When you don't want to Yeah, when you're coming up
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: with all these ridiculous excuses. We live in North Dakota,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: So it's cold outside, right, I don't want to get
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: out of bed because it's nice and warm.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a throat tickle. I might I must
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: be getting sick.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or you know, when the weather does get Oh,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: it's a beautiful outside, I don't want to sit inside
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: for a few hours, right, But is that a few
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: hours going to save your life, right, because a relapse
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: could be the end, all right, And that's kind of
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the scary piece of it is I tell my group,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: because I'm very open with my group about me being
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: in recovery, and I tell my group all the time
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that I know that I have another relapse in me,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: but I don't have another recovery in me, right because
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: if I, yeah, if I were to fall off, that
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: would be the end of it for me, I think,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and right, you know, and it could be that for anybody.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: It could be And you know that's saying and like
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I said, might sound cheesy, but one is too many,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: A thousand's never enough. And that could be with an alcohol.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's true. It's what our clients experience
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: every day.
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: M h.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Enough is never enough? No, can you share a moment
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: when you saw real transformation and Applian.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I think my personal favorite amongst all my clients is
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: like the physical transformation, especially when I was going through
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: like my clinical hours and I got to see them
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: from start to finish, whether they come into inpatient you know,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: an hour sober, right, and then we do the thirty
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: day you know, in patient treatment and I've been so
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: blessed to get them starting from inpatient all the way
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: through day treatment, IOP and aftercare and you know, now
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: individuals and you just see the physical transformation, putting on
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: healthy weight, getting your hair growth back, just coloring your skin,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: you know, just seeing you know, physical characteristic society, like
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the personality start to show, you know, a sense of humor.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh my gosh, there you are. You know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: like you just get to.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: See life come back. That's my favorite. I don't think
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I can think of a specific person because even someone
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: who has come through treatment and I've been exposed to
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: maybe they've had a lapse here and there, but overall,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: like harm reduction to its fullest, right, Like, you get
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: to start to see them come back, and that's just
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: no words can put that on how that feels to
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: see that.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's success. That's so good it is And seeing
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that's my favorite part of recovery is seeing that transformation
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: and seeing people come in so defeated and you're so
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: broken and not making the eye contact, not smiling, like
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: hood up in the corner, you know, like just hiding, yeah, hiding.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: And I've had some giddy moments with clients where they
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: are hiding, and then in amidst silence or other group
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: members talking, they give like a quirky, like one liner.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, uh, there you are. There you are,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Like I'm on and my group probably thinks I'm crazy
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: because I grab all those things and I draw attention
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: to it, and I was like, let's celebrate that.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, here you are. Yeah.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I've got a client who's chronically late and they were
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: on time the other day.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I was like, yes, here we are, let's go, and.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: They're like, Alex, seriously, I'm like, no, this is huge.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Look at you. Here we are.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome, Glad you're here, you know. And that's with
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: just anything.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: They're like, I'm putting on weight.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I was like, beautiful, but on those pounds, we love it.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: You're healthy. Brain in yeah, absolutely, yes, in those yeah. Oh.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And you know, just even the things where they come
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: in maybe they're they're only here because of their po
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: right or seeking help because if their PO or you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: CPS or you just got a DUI and I don't
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: really need help, And then you get little nuggets here
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: and there where you know, yeah, maybe my drinking was bad,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: so getting that ambivalence to some insight, to insight to
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: actively wanting to be a part of their recovery.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: That's one of my favorites too. I have so many favorites,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that's at all. I we journel every day in my group,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: and one of my I have two questions that are
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: always the same, and one of them is an internal
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: motivation and one of them is an external motivation. And
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: so often I have clients that come in and they
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: tell me, Liz, I don't have any internal motivation. There's
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: nothing inside of me that wants to be sober, and
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: as a counselor as somebody in recovery, that kind of
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: crushes my heart a little bit. You're like, how don't
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: you see it? You know, yeah, yeah, he's not that easy. No,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And then it then it humbles me because I was
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: once there too that I didn't have any internal motivation
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: either to want to be sober, to want to look
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: at myself in the mirror, to do any of those things.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: And then getting into group and all of a sudden,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: one day they'll throw out something as an internal motivation
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: my health, and You're like, yes, yeah, and I just
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: like I wish that I could have like those confetti poppers.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yoh yeah, those are my favorite, you know, or yeah,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I mean especially when it comes to alcohol use.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe now that they have not drink and they're losing
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: weight and they're like, yeah, my weight or I'm.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Healthy, and you're like heck yeah, yeah, heck yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Here we are internal motivators, you know.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: It's so so cool and.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: It just gives you purpose to have your clients come around,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: not for anyone but themselves.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to be here for me or
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: for your your.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Po or whatever it may be. I want you to
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: show up for yourself. Yeah, for your family, for your kids,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: for your significant other. And I mean, and that's fine
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: if that's what gets you in the door or any
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: treatment center. But I want you to stay because of you.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: No, I want you to learn to stay because you
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: want to be here and you are starting to feel
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: those good things yeah, that come with being sober and
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: that we see as outsiders. Yeah.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I had one too where she was like, you know,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: now that I'm sober, I'm funny.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: You are funny. She's like I never was funny.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like being funny. I like being sober because
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I'm funny.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yes, beautiful it is. And I know and
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I joked at the beginning of my recovery all the
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: time that I'm so stupidly socially awkward, but that's who
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I am, right, embrace it, right, and so now it's
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a part of who I am and it's not something
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: that like I shy away from. Is something that I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: embrace and that I love about myself that I am Like,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: that's socially awkward, girl, you know that's just like sure,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I like bread.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Help, Yeah, that's funny.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: What's a small win in recovery that people might overlook
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: but is actually huge.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: The first twenty four hours being sober. I actually asked
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: my group this one, and they were like, any moment
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: that you.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Could have used and easily used?
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: And said no, And that's coming from them firsthand, Like
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: these are small wins that are overlooked, but they're massive.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Not using when I could have the first twenty four hours.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: One said, people get so stuck on counting their days, right, like, oh,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: I made it four months and now I use I
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: guess or no. Each day is a new day, it's
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: a new choice, new fight.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: That's a win.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter if you have one day or one hundred
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and seventy five days every single day, that's one hundred
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and seventy five wins.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Feeling your emotions for the first time again because you're
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: you know, you're using your numb Yeah. And I think
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: feeling them without holding back. I love tears of my
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: grop I love making them cry. No, it's I'm saying
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: this word a lot, but it's beautiful. M Seeing people
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: feel their grief, their sadness, their happiness, laughing and not
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: holding back.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Is so good.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, you talked about social and awkwardness, anxiety, like
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: all the things because you're so worried about what other
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: people are thinking about you. And if you, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: get to a safe space or you're comfortable and you're
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: just letting it all out, so cool. That's a small
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: big win. That is that is a small big win.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: And it's a small big win that again, as somebody
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: in recovery that I haven't ever really thought about, is
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: because emotions are ugly and they're hard. Even some of
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: the good ones to feel can be kind of ugly
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: at times, Like I just want to cackle and look
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: the cackle.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Let it out. Yes, let it out, because chances are
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: if you are laughing and other people hear you laughing,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: it's gonna bring a smile to their face. And I mean,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I love that when I get to walk down the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: hallway and groups are in session and I hear people's deggling.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And yeah, potent and holler, and like, it's great seeing
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: people just be themselves.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, be themselves. It's so good.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Two more that I think are important, So I'm just
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: gonna take over here for a minute. Accepting help to
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: begin with is huge, Yes huge.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I you know, we.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Might be so scared to ask for help or you know,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: be like, yep, I'm struggling, but I got it.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I got it. I can do this on my own.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: No thank you.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Next, and so just accepting the help, being vulnerable a
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: little bit to be like I don't know if I
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: can do this, or hey, I want to do this,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: but you know, and getting perspectives or opinions or feedback,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: accepting that help to begin with coming in for an email,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: you know, in mallevuation and saying.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: YEAI, hey I have this problem. Yeah huge, huge, what
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: do I do now?
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Or you know, just even looking at your significant other
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: or a parent or someone and being like, you know, I, yeah,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I think I'm doing a little.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Too much of this or this is what I'm thinking
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: about all day long. I don't think that's right, you know.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just that vulnerability is a big win, even though
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: it might seem minute to you right now, right, it's not.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: No, it's not. And then one that I think.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Gets overshadowed a lot is coming to your first treatment group,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: going to your first meeting, walking into a church for
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the first time, and how long.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: That's huge.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: It is good for you, you know, welcome.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if it's just walking in and turning
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: around and walking out. Yeah, you made it, girl, Yeah
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you made it. Man Like, good for you.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Stay a minute longer.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Next time, we'll work on it. Yeah, you know, we'll
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: get you there. Yeah, we're not going anywhere, which that's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: a huge win. Huge Or coming in and like coming
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: into treatment, going through the evail process and then thinking, right,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's not for me, right cool, but.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be excited to see you the next time
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: you come in for another fresh evaluation, you know, and
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: commit to a start date. Yeah, it's amazing, unless just
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: to see you, you know, Yes, it's huge because we're.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Not ready until we're ready.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: But small steps like that get you there.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those are big. They are big and asking for
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: help too. I mean, society so often tells us, oh,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: just pull up your bootstraps and get up and move on. Ye,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: walk it off, rub some dirt on. What's all the analogies?
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Those don't work? No, they don't work. I mean they
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: don't work for physical injuries, they don't work for mental
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: health injuries. They don't work for substance use disease. Yeah, disease.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I can't just walk off because I'm a diabet right,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: suck it up, list?
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean yeah, you you can't expect things
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to get better like in it in terms of medical conditions, right,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: You're like, I'm a diabetic, tough luck.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna do anything about it.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: No, I need I need help, whether that's literally my
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: insulin or going to my medical provider. And we don't
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: shame you for that, you know what I mean, So
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: let's get some help. Yeah, just like, at some point,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: your addiction is not the choice. It's a medical condition.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: You're you're changing your brain and your body chemistry. I
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: can't be like how dare you get cancer?
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: You know how rude? Have you own off diseases like
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: that too? Like I can't you know it off? Tough
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: it out, you know it just a we.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Studies, science, factual evidence has shown that that doesn't work
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: for everybody, right.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: And some people it might, It might, you know, some people,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: it might. They might be able to just have some
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: life altering thing with their substance use and just put
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: it down and walk away and not ever think about
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: it again and it not affect them in any negative way.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: But then the next person is gonna need that treatment,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: gonna need that support system.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Maintenance work, you know, go to meetings maybe every week
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: forever and ever on.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Then.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I think that's what my clients have shared is the
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: most frustrating thing about recovery is is that it's not
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: cookie cutter. There's no owner's manual to being sober. And
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: they're like, Alex, how long am I going to feel
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: like this? I don't know how long am I gonna
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: have cravings?
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: How long do I have to me? Do I need
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: to go to meetings?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know? Yeah, I don't know. Right, As somebody
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: that has eleven years of sobriety. I still get cravings, right,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: and triggers, and there's still you know, mundane days where
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I'm driving home from work and I'm like, oh, beer
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: would sound good. Wait a minute, where did that come from?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: You know, let's know. Right, and then what I've had
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: big emotions like grief and lost happen in my recovery.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: It's God, this is ugly feeling. I don't want to
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: feel it. Yeah, let's go get drunk, Let's go get high, right,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: because this is such an ugly feeling.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And there's no there's no time limit, no
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: cookie cutter gear. No. People are different. That's why we
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: acknowledge individualized treatment, individualized care. I'm not the same as you, No,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I mean I am very open with my group that
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: you know. I could easily, you know, go out for
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: a few drinks, get some legal charges on my way
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: home and end up in the same group as you. Right,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: But my story, your story, his story, her story, as
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: well as your recovery, like all.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: The things, it's not the same and it won't be
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: the same. Right.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: The issue of me drinking was problematic in that moment,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and maybe I could turn around and like not have
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: an issue ever again, or.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I could continue to struggle.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's genetics, that's your environment, you know, coping skills,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: like all the things.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not cookie cutter. No, and sometimes I wish
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: it was cookie cutter, or that there was some magic
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: manual that we be ended along with our license, like
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: here you go, here's how you are going to help
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: all of your clients that are on your case lode. Yeah.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I was asked yesterday actually ironically, like, well, if they
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: would find a cure, you'd be out a job. And
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, I gladly take a career change if
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: they found a cure. Yeah, gladly, absolutely, I'll be back
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: in my high school job whipping up pizzas like come
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: is it?
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: But there's not, unfortunately, and I'm just I you know,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: and I tell them that too, like there's not.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm grateful to be here with you.
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: I'm along for the ride you, hey, buck club, so
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: we'll get there together. Yeah, yeah, help me, help you,
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: help you, help me.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: What would you say to someone who is scared to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: ask for help? I mean, ideal, the answers don't be Yeah,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the easy answer, the easy answer. Hey, don't.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: It's okay. It's okay to be scared. It's okay to
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: not fully want to accept that you need help. It's
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: okay to not want to be vulnerable. You know, change
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: isn't easy. Recovery is ugly.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: It is, it's ugly, it's not linear.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: No, you know, just a change is uncomfortable, and you're
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: gonna be uncomfortable for a minute, a hot minute.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but nobody died from being uncomfortable.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: No, not really, no, no, not that I'm aware.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Right, And I tell my group that all the time,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: that while change is super uncomfortable and nobody really likes it,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: nobody's ever died from sitting in that conquerable right.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think just you know, if they're depending
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: on this, you're where you're at, right, the outcome is
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: greater than the fear or the discomfort you feel right now.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: It does get better, it does, it does.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen it. I may not kneel like I said,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I'm open. I'm open.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I haven't I don't know firsthand. I've seen it, yeah,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: and have fortunately had others allowed me to be part
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Which is huge. Passive What message or hope do you
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: want to leave listeners with today, whether you.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Are the person struggling with addiction right now, or you're
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: that family member or friends or just listening right now
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: and just need a little pep talk, You're not alone.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: You're worthy of support, you're worthy of recovery, you're worthy
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: of a better life. And my personal favorite is, we're
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: all living life for the first time. There's we don't
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: know what we're doing, none of us, not a single
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: one of us. So give one another, but especially yourselves,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: some grace and forgiveness.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: It's okay, Yeah, it is okay, it's okay, it's okay
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: to not be okay. Yeah, we're all human.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Mistakes are inevitable. And then it's uh because we're human.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And once you stop making mistakes, it's because you're no
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: longer here.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Wow. I like that. I know. I keep that on
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: in my back pocket. It's true. It is true, it's true.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: It is so. So reach out for help. Yeah, come
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: see us at Harview.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Definitely call call your mom, your dad, friend, your creator,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, your power whatever, maybe.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Whatever that looks like for you. Yeah, You're not alone.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, alex Oh, thank you, No, seriously, thank you
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: for taking time wanting to interview me, letting me talk
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: because I'm a talker. I appreciate it. Yeah, this, I
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: think it's important to get her view staff voices out there.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Let people know who we are. Yeah, that we're people too.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: And we're no better than you know, we're you know
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: each other, we're we're all here.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all here to help in any way that
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: we can. So if you need us, we're here. Thanks listen,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks Alex
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: To st