Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #582 Biscuits! Bluey's Dad is Top Dog

Transcript

#582 Biscuits! Bluey's Dad is Top Dog · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, in terms of our picture of what a perfect
0:12
Speaker 2: parent is, bandit doesn't fit the mold, and I think
0:15
Speaker 2: that's actually what makes band it perfect.
0:18
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum
0:22
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:22
Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to the Happy
0:24
Speaker 2: Families Podcast for the week leading up to Father's Day
0:27
Speaker 2: this coming Sunday, and we've got some really exciting plans
0:31
Speaker 2: for the week. On the podcast, You're going to meet
0:32
Speaker 2: two of Australia's most famous dads from your television screens.
0:35
Speaker 2: We're speaking with Osher Gunsberg and David Campbell. I'm so
0:40
Speaker 2: excited for these conversations. Plus, where was it going to
0:42
Speaker 2: chat with one of the funniest dads on the internet,
0:45
Speaker 2: James Breakwell, otherwise known as the Exploding Unicorn on Twitter.
0:49
Speaker 2: He has over a million Twitter followers and is the
0:50
Speaker 2: author of four books and the dad to four young girls.
0:55
Speaker 2: Imagine that between the two of us we have ten daughters.
0:59
Speaker 2: And on today's epist so it's something a little bit different.
1:01
Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago, I spoke with Justin Rulan.
1:03
Speaker 2: You might have heard of me speaking of Justin Rulan
1:05
Speaker 2: on the podcast. He is the producer of the podcast.
1:08
Speaker 2: He's the guy that edits it makes it sound great.
1:10
Speaker 2: But he also works on a podcast called Bluey's Brisbane,
1:13
Speaker 2: which goes behind the scenes of the hit TV show,
1:15
Speaker 2: speaking to cast and crew and deep diving into the
1:18
Speaker 2: world of Bluey.
1:20
Speaker 1: Let's make some Father's Day cards for Dad? Don't you
1:23
Speaker 1: do a red love heart rainbow card?
1:25
Speaker 3: Great? Okay, what's going on? After all I've done for
1:30
Speaker 3: this family?
1:31
Speaker 2: We had a chat about Bandit Healer. Now for those
1:34
Speaker 2: of you who don't have young children. Banded is the
1:36
Speaker 2: father of Bluey and Bluie's younger sister, Bingo. He's the
1:40
Speaker 2: much loved dad dog at the heart of Australia's favorite
1:43
Speaker 2: four legged family. He balances the drudgery of housework with
1:47
Speaker 2: creative escapades his puppy dog babies, repurposing everyday objects and
1:53
Speaker 2: actions for imaginative play and engagement. And Justin and I
1:57
Speaker 2: talked about Bandit's parenting style and what we can learn
2:00
Speaker 2: from it. I hope you really enjoy the interview. Can
2:01
Speaker 2: you and you keep please?
2:03
Speaker 3: No, I'm done being a mini parent. My new parenting
2:06
Speaker 3: book says not to boss the kids around.
2:08
Speaker 2: Oh I like that book.
2:11
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us on the Blues
2:12
Speaker 3: Prisbon podcast.
2:13
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be able to talk blue with you.
2:16
Speaker 3: But we love Blue here. I'd love to get your
2:18
Speaker 3: take on the character of Bandit Healer, because you know,
2:22
Speaker 3: one of the things that you TV critics are constantly
2:25
Speaker 3: sort of wowed about is this portrayal of Bandit as
2:28
Speaker 3: a dad. He's not the real bumbling kind of dope
2:32
Speaker 3: that we're kind of used to in TV dads. I'm
2:34
Speaker 3: thinking Homer Simpson, Daddy Pig from Pepper Pig, you know,
2:37
Speaker 3: King of the Hill. Is it really important we see
2:40
Speaker 3: this positive representation of parents on the TV.
2:43
Speaker 2: A couple of things about Bandit. First off, I don't
2:45
Speaker 2: think that there's any attempt by the makers of Bluey
2:49
Speaker 2: to make band It perfect, and in fact, band It
2:52
Speaker 2: is not perfect. It's pretty clear as you're watching that
2:54
Speaker 2: Bandit can get kind of annoyed, be a little bit
2:57
Speaker 2: short and sharp, abrupt, blunt with the kids.
3:00
Speaker 3: Can let go mate? Yeah, hey, look I'll just explain it.
3:03
Speaker 3: What you need to give me a spinko.
3:04
Speaker 2: Let go, band It does kind of just want to
3:08
Speaker 2: do band its own thing, Like I wouldn't mind sitting
3:10
Speaker 2: down and reading the paper and not being disturbed by
3:12
Speaker 2: you kids, go and play somewhere else kind of thing.
3:14
Speaker 3: All right, girls, who wants to sit on the couch
3:17
Speaker 3: and watch cricket?
3:18
Speaker 2: No? No, no wow. In terms of our picture of
3:22
Speaker 2: what a perfect parent is, Bandit doesn't fit the mold,
3:25
Speaker 2: and I think that's actually what makes band It perfect.
3:29
Speaker 2: So if I'm watching a Blue episode, what I tend
3:31
Speaker 2: to see is Bandit taking what psychologists would call a
3:35
Speaker 2: minimal sufficiency approach to parenting. That is, I'm going to
3:39
Speaker 2: do enough to have a sufficient impact. But that's all
3:43
Speaker 2: I'm going to do. Like, I'm not going to raise
3:44
Speaker 2: the bar so high that I've got to be a
3:46
Speaker 2: helicopter parent and channel parent and attachment parent, a free
3:48
Speaker 2: range parent and all those other things all at once.
3:50
Speaker 2: I'm just going to be the present father. I'm just
3:52
Speaker 2: going to be the present parent, and so long as
3:55
Speaker 2: the kids are okay, I don't actually need to get involved.
3:57
Speaker 2: It's the minimal sufficiency paradigm, and I really like the
4:00
Speaker 2: way they portray that. But with that comes some other
4:04
Speaker 2: advantages from a pairing point of view, but also for
4:06
Speaker 2: the kids. So there's kind of I guess associated with it.
4:10
Speaker 2: There's what I would call a middling level of a
4:12
Speaker 2: I was going to say attachment, but it's probably more
4:14
Speaker 2: a middling level of detachment. But it's not really involved,
4:18
Speaker 2: but is present. And there's a whole lot of research
4:20
Speaker 2: that shows that when kids have their autonomy, when they're
4:23
Speaker 2: able to act for themselves, when they're the ones that
4:25
Speaker 2: are in control of the decisions that they're making, but
4:27
Speaker 2: there's a parent who's around, who's hovering, not not hovering
4:31
Speaker 2: in a helicopter sense, but hovering as in a I'm
4:33
Speaker 2: present if you need me kind of sense. That's the
4:37
Speaker 2: sense that I get when I watch Bandit in Bluey
4:41
Speaker 2: middling detachment, present, minimal sufficiency, but also a couple of
4:45
Speaker 2: other things struck me. Number One, fun and engaged. When
4:49
Speaker 2: Bandit needs to be there, he's there. And there's there's
4:53
Speaker 2: kind of a really easy nature to the way that
4:58
Speaker 2: he interacts with the kids. Doesn't talk down to them,
5:00
Speaker 2: doesn't ignore them, doesn't think he's better than them, doesn't
5:03
Speaker 2: go with any power plays, just talks to them like
5:06
Speaker 2: they're people that he really enjoys chatting with and can
5:10
Speaker 2: be himself with knows how to hold firm on limits.
5:13
Speaker 2: You see this again and again in Bluey. Band It
5:16
Speaker 2: has an expectation of where the kids are supposed to be,
5:19
Speaker 2: and what I love about Banded's expectations is they're pretty
5:22
Speaker 2: well in line with the developmental reality of where the
5:25
Speaker 2: kids are. And this is so important because as parents,
5:28
Speaker 2: we often expect way too much of our kids emotionally.
5:30
Speaker 2: We don't usually expect enough of them from a physical capacity,
5:33
Speaker 2: but we expect way too much of them emotionally, and
5:36
Speaker 2: Bandit doesn't tend to do that. Banded's expectations are about right,
5:39
Speaker 2: holds firms on the limits because they seem to be
5:41
Speaker 2: pretty well appropriate, but allows loads of space and autonomy
5:44
Speaker 2: for the kids. It's just such a great way to
5:48
Speaker 2: portray and engaged involved dad who gets that some structure
5:53
Speaker 2: and some autonomy are both important for the kids.
5:56
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about an episode called ice Cream, and it's
5:58
Speaker 3: got this great opening scene where the kids are, you know,
6:02
Speaker 3: pestering Bandit for something in the shop.
6:05
Speaker 2: When it is and if you pay for it yourself,
6:08
Speaker 2: I haven't got any money, Well, then you can't help it.
6:10
Speaker 3: I want it.
6:11
Speaker 2: Well, that's commonly called bad luck. Now that's not fair.
6:15
Speaker 3: It's pretty fair. Wow, you're right. He does hold firm
6:19
Speaker 3: on those on those boundaries that he sees fit that
6:21
Speaker 3: he needs to hold strong onto. The episode of Bluey
6:24
Speaker 3: that really drew me into this role of bandit was
6:27
Speaker 3: the episode Takeaway, classic depiction of how parenting changes you
6:32
Speaker 3: in that, you know, just going and picking up some takeaway,
6:35
Speaker 3: what should be a simple job just descends into absolute chaos.
6:39
Speaker 3: There's just all sorts of pandemonium in this episode. Where's
6:42
Speaker 3: the nearest toilet? Oh, that's too far been go? Can
6:46
Speaker 3: you hold on till we get home? Okay, okay, it's
6:50
Speaker 3: a bush. Was this your experience like you're a dad
6:54
Speaker 3: six times over? Was this your experience with your girls
6:57
Speaker 3: in that phase of parenting.
7:00
Speaker 2: We don't have kids with an expectation that life will
7:02
Speaker 2: be simple once we've had them, and if we do,
7:04
Speaker 2: we're in for a rude shock. Having children means that
7:06
Speaker 2: your life is probably not going to be efficient for
7:10
Speaker 2: a very, very very long time. I love that Takeaway
7:13
Speaker 2: episode and watching it just it makes me laugh and
7:16
Speaker 2: cry all in the space of seven minutes. The role
7:20
Speaker 2: of parent is exhausting, and this is an episode that
7:23
Speaker 2: highlights it so beautifully. There's that other one where they
7:26
Speaker 2: go to the movie theater, same kind of thing. Okay,
7:28
Speaker 2: three tickets and a popcorn.
7:31
Speaker 3: And another popcorn.
7:33
Speaker 2: Nothing is easy, nothing is straightforward. Nothing happens because you've
7:38
Speaker 2: wished it so. And what I love about the way
7:41
Speaker 2: the makers of Bluey depict these scenes is they're also minimal.
7:45
Speaker 2: They're all such small issues. There's nothing big going on here.
7:49
Speaker 2: It's not like there's been an earthquake, becers, not like
7:51
Speaker 2: there's been a car accident. I need to go to
7:53
Speaker 2: the toilet and I'm thirsty, and all of a sudden,
7:56
Speaker 2: somebody spills their drink, or they spill their popcorn, or
7:58
Speaker 2: they spill their Chinese. At the take all the spring
8:01
Speaker 2: roll is going to be an extra five minutes, but
8:02
Speaker 2: the kids are tired and hungry, and everything kind of
8:05
Speaker 2: blows up. I love the way they depict how exhausting
8:09
Speaker 2: parenting is, and they get it absolutely right. Once you
8:13
Speaker 2: have kids, you should expect that life is not going
8:16
Speaker 2: to be straightforward ever again.
8:18
Speaker 3: Oh right, okay, yeah, I'll do it, even though I
8:21
Speaker 3: have to make a duct cake for your sister, the
8:23
Speaker 3: hardest of old cakes. I'll just tidy up your mess instead.
8:27
Speaker 3: I'm about to start. One of the great things about
8:30
Speaker 3: the show is it's not cynical. Though they do show
8:33
Speaker 3: those difficult moments, but I don't think there's any cynicism
8:35
Speaker 3: in there. I read a great article by a writer
8:39
Speaker 3: call Jesse Waddell who wrote in the Medium publication. She said,
8:43
Speaker 3: why is every dad in every TV show made to
8:46
Speaker 3: look like becoming a dad was the worst thing that
8:48
Speaker 3: ever happened to them? So obviously bandits breaking this kind
8:51
Speaker 3: of stereotype of the dumb dad. Why do you think
8:55
Speaker 3: dads especially are portrayed in this way in pop culture?
8:59
Speaker 2: When I consider this question, I think that it's just easy.
9:04
Speaker 2: It's cheap laughs. It's easy to poortray dads as the
9:07
Speaker 2: bumbling fool or the detached, disoriented, not quite with it parent.
9:13
Speaker 2: It provides a comic foil we can all relate to
9:17
Speaker 2: the dad who is a bit goofy and loves to
9:21
Speaker 2: do the dad jokes and play the fool. And I
9:24
Speaker 2: think because dads in their nature tend to be fairly playful,
9:28
Speaker 2: that also lends to that stereotype with which then gets exaggerated, magnified, amplified,
9:32
Speaker 2: blown up on a lot of the shows that you've referenced.
9:37
Speaker 2: Is it helpful?
9:38
Speaker 1: No?
9:39
Speaker 2: Does it make me feel good about watching the shows?
9:40
Speaker 1: No?
9:41
Speaker 2: It's okay to not be overly critical though, because we
9:45
Speaker 2: all like to laugh at ourselves, and we like to
9:46
Speaker 2: laugh at those characters, but we know that they're simplified
9:49
Speaker 2: shadows of what a real dad is.
9:52
Speaker 3: You've watched the show, obviously, know that. You know, creative
9:55
Speaker 3: and imaginative play is one of the huge features of
9:58
Speaker 3: the show that you know. Why do you do you
10:00
Speaker 3: think it's so important for dads to be present with
10:02
Speaker 3: their kids. Specifically, I'm thinking of episodes like rug Island.
10:06
Speaker 3: It's almost like bandit needs to become a kid again
10:09
Speaker 3: to play the game. You know? Why is it so important?
10:13
Speaker 3: Why is playtime and being present so important with our kids?
10:16
Speaker 2: What are the things that researchers have discovered in the
10:18
Speaker 2: last probably twenty to thirty years, is that, well, mums
10:24
Speaker 2: love to play with their kids sometimes, and while mums
10:26
Speaker 2: are certainly capable of doing it and doing it well,
10:29
Speaker 2: there does seem to be something of a gender divide
10:32
Speaker 2: when it comes to playtime children and parents and that
10:36
Speaker 2: divide seems to highlight that dads enjoy and engage more
10:42
Speaker 2: in playtime with kids. They're also more likely to play
10:44
Speaker 2: with rough and tumble styles of play than mums are.
10:47
Speaker 3: Now, I need to get these two packages to live
10:50
Speaker 3: in that. First, they need to stab them stamp scamp.
10:56
Speaker 2: I mean, mums can get down and dirty in the
11:00
Speaker 2: in the moshpit with the kids on the lands room
11:02
Speaker 2: carpet as well, but it tends to be the dad
11:05
Speaker 2: that dives in and does that kind of thing. We
11:08
Speaker 2: don't really know why. We don't have good scientific reasons
11:11
Speaker 2: and hypotheses for why that is. It just seems to
11:14
Speaker 2: be the way that it goes. What we do know
11:17
Speaker 2: is that children benefit from that playtime and that when
11:20
Speaker 2: parents can let go of all their reservations, their inhibitions
11:23
Speaker 2: and can get down and rough and tumble on the
11:25
Speaker 2: carpet with the kids, or play marbles, or play card games,
11:28
Speaker 2: or play Monopoly if you have to, or whatever it
11:31
Speaker 2: might be, or just tickles. I mean, in my family,
11:33
Speaker 2: my kids have got this game called pushed Out off
11:34
Speaker 2: the bed, and it used to be fun when the
11:36
Speaker 2: kids were little, because no matter how hard they tried,
11:38
Speaker 2: they couldn't push me off the bed. Now that they're
11:41
Speaker 2: all getting bigger, my youngest is now eight, and then
11:43
Speaker 2: there's a twelve year old and a fifteen year old.
11:45
Speaker 2: They're the three youngest. I don't stand a chance, not
11:48
Speaker 2: a fair fight, not a fair fight at all. I'm
11:50
Speaker 2: a seventy kilo cyclist. And it gets really really bad,
11:53
Speaker 2: really really fast. They just they get their shoulders into me,
11:56
Speaker 2: and they get their chins and their heads into me,
11:57
Speaker 2: and I'm off the bed straight away. But the kids
12:00
Speaker 2: love that, and they learn how to take risks. They
12:02
Speaker 2: learn about consent, they learn about boundaries, they learn about limits,
12:08
Speaker 2: they learn how to have empathy, they learn how to
12:10
Speaker 2: get along in all kinds of situations where the pressure
12:14
Speaker 2: is off, there's a lot of social skill stuff happening.
12:16
Speaker 2: There's a lot of creativity that happens. This is the
12:18
Speaker 2: stuff that happens when we play with our kids. The
12:21
Speaker 2: research shows that it's a tremendous benefit to them. But
12:24
Speaker 2: the data also shows that we get a great, big
12:27
Speaker 2: well being kick out of it as well, which is
12:29
Speaker 2: kind of funny because most of us parents are so
12:31
Speaker 2: exhausted when the kids want to play, we sort of say, oh,
12:33
Speaker 2: do I have to. We kind of become banded in
12:35
Speaker 2: a way. Now that's right. You kids go and play.
12:37
Speaker 2: I'm just going to read the papy here on my own.
12:39
Speaker 2: And then I don't know, we get involved and we think,
12:42
Speaker 2: why did I not want to do this? This is
12:44
Speaker 2: the most rewarding thing I've done all day? Why did
12:47
Speaker 2: she give you.
12:52
Speaker 3: Everything? So do you think Bandit's a good example of
12:57
Speaker 3: the modern dad? I mean I'm thinking of you know,
13:00
Speaker 3: my dad and in the eighties, and there really wasn't
13:03
Speaker 3: a lot of expectation. You know, you go to work,
13:05
Speaker 3: you put food on the table, and that was about it.
13:08
Speaker 3: You know, we watch Bandit, you know, doing the laundry
13:10
Speaker 3: and doing his fair share of the housework. You know,
13:13
Speaker 3: he cooks the cake in duck cake for you know,
13:15
Speaker 3: the birthday cake, hardest of all cakes for the kids.
13:19
Speaker 3: He's sort of doing his fair share of the housework.
13:22
Speaker 3: Is he the modern dad? Do you think?
13:24
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is art imitating life or his life imitating art?
13:27
Speaker 2: What I know from research is that Bandit is a
13:31
Speaker 2: great representation of what most dads say they want to be.
13:35
Speaker 2: That is, they want to be sharing at a much
13:39
Speaker 2: greater participation level in the home. They know that their
13:41
Speaker 2: wives or partners are not wholly and solely responsible for
13:44
Speaker 2: the cooking and the cleaning and the ironing and the
13:46
Speaker 2: washing and the whatever looking after the kids. And they
13:48
Speaker 2: don't want to be seen as a wallet. They don't
13:50
Speaker 2: want to be seen as the cash dispense of the
13:52
Speaker 2: one that pays the bills and doesn't really have any
13:54
Speaker 2: emotional investment in the rest of what happens in the family.
13:57
Speaker 2: So what ends up happening in Bleuie I think is
13:59
Speaker 2: representative of what most dads are saying they want. That is,
14:03
Speaker 2: there's the opportunity to go to work and have a
14:06
Speaker 2: meaningful role outside of the home, but there's also a
14:10
Speaker 2: real desire to be involved in meaningful ways, in contributing
14:14
Speaker 2: within the home, but particularly in participating in the relationships.
14:19
Speaker 3: Amazing. Just finally, I know you have written at length
14:24
Speaker 3: in about the modern education system about how that can
14:28
Speaker 3: diminish our kids creativity. Especially when we watch Bluie, we
14:33
Speaker 3: see a different kind of model of education happening. And
14:36
Speaker 3: it's very clear that Bluie's school is modeled on a
14:40
Speaker 3: Steinus school. I think they call it a Waldorf school
14:42
Speaker 3: in the States, where play and things like being in nature,
14:47
Speaker 3: the arts, music are all prioritized.
14:50
Speaker 1: That looks good. I'm building a house, it's going to
14:54
Speaker 1: have a bottom room and a top room.
14:56
Speaker 2: Wonderful.
14:58
Speaker 3: You know, as someone who's sort of so maybe there's
15:00
Speaker 3: a better way of doing education, how do you feel
15:03
Speaker 3: seeing this, I guess, a different model of education being
15:07
Speaker 3: depicted on our TV screens. How does that make you feel?
15:10
Speaker 2: I think that anyone who watches the way the education
15:14
Speaker 2: process plays out in blue is going to say to themselves.
15:19
Speaker 2: I would imagine most people to say, I want that
15:20
Speaker 2: for my kids. There seems to be a really nice balance,
15:25
Speaker 2: a really healthy approach to learning and development and the
15:29
Speaker 2: pursuit of interests, the opportunity to be curious and explore.
15:33
Speaker 2: Those are the kinds of things that we know are
15:35
Speaker 2: really beneficial for kids. We also know from research, not
15:39
Speaker 2: just in Australia but around the world that our modern
15:42
Speaker 2: Western education systems, from time to time, in fact, quite
15:46
Speaker 2: often sometimes depending on the school, can really stifle those opportunities,
15:49
Speaker 2: those experiences. So what I think they've done really nicely
15:53
Speaker 2: in Bluey is portrayed what a I don't know if
15:56
Speaker 2: I want to say optimal, but certainly an advanced and improved,
16:00
Speaker 2: fancier kind of model of education could look like and
16:03
Speaker 2: how that can be a benefit for kids.
16:05
Speaker 3: Thanks Capso I'm going to have that story.
16:08
Speaker 2: Okay, have fun.
16:10
Speaker 3: Dr Colson, Thank you so much for your time. Where
16:12
Speaker 3: can people find out more about you and what you
16:14
Speaker 3: do in terms of making families happier?
16:17
Speaker 2: All roads lead to happy families dot com dot au.
16:20
Speaker 2: Just search my name and I'm pretty sure something like
16:22
Speaker 2: that will come up.
16:22
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time.
16:24
Speaker 2: Thanks Justin, be go big Tree. Really well, I really
16:40
Speaker 2: hope you enjoyed that conversation, JR.
16:42
Speaker 3: Why don't you tell.
16:42
Speaker 2: Em where they can find the podcast and everything they
16:45
Speaker 2: need to know about it?
16:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Justin. Well, it's like Justin's in stereo around here.
16:49
Speaker 3: But if you want to get a bit of Bluey
16:51
Speaker 3: in your podcast feed, Bluey's Brisbane is the podcast that
16:55
Speaker 3: goes behind the scenes of blue We talked to cast
16:58
Speaker 3: and crew from the show a lot of fun. Check
17:00
Speaker 3: us out by searching for Blues Brisbane wherever you get
17:03
Speaker 3: your podcasts, or you can find us on the socials
17:05
Speaker 3: as well. Just search for Bluis Brisbane on Facebook, Twitter,
17:09
Speaker 3: and Instagram.
17:10
Speaker 2: Thanks JR. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin
17:12
Speaker 2: Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer,
17:15
Speaker 2: and for more information about making your family happier, visit
17:18
Speaker 2: us at happy families dot com Dot You Tomorrow OSHA,
17:21
Speaker 2: Wednesday David Campbell, and Thursday James Breakwell, the Twitter Exploding Unicorn.
17:27
Speaker 2: A big week of Happy Father's Day content coming your way,
17:34
Speaker 2: you know, Pat Tomato, Sawce.
17:36
Speaker 3: Some Tablova, Jevulf and Netra.
17:39
Speaker 1: That's it.
17:40
Speaker 3: You're hearty here