Latest / The Real News Podcast / ‘You Can’t Serve People You Hate’: Rep. Summer Lee Breaks Down the War on the Poor

Transcript

‘You Can’t Serve People You Hate’: Rep. Summer Lee Breaks Down the War on the Poor · The Real News Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: Can our democracy survive the influence of billions of dollars
0:03
Speaker 1: being poured into our politics? Well, that's why I'm here
0:05
Speaker 1: at the Netroots Nation in Philadelphia in order to speak
0:08
Speaker 1: with Representative Summerly about the push to abolish super packs,
0:12
Speaker 1: the push to overturn Citizens United, and whether or not
0:16
Speaker 1: we can look forward to some serious interference in our
0:18
Speaker 1: midterm elections. Tungus Whinley, Last time I saw you, you
0:22
Speaker 1: were talking about the Abolished Super Packs Act, which you
0:24
Speaker 1: co sponsored with Senator Sanders. First, can you just give
0:28
Speaker 1: me just a quick rundown on how that works.
0:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, So think about it this way.
0:34
Speaker 3: If you are a regular person, me, you, the people
0:37
Speaker 3: we know, you have a contributional limit on what you
0:40
Speaker 3: can give to somebody who's running for federal office.
0:43
Speaker 2: If you are a millionaire or.
0:45
Speaker 3: A corporation, Yeah, you have that if you give directly
0:48
Speaker 3: to the candidate. But you can just get around it
0:50
Speaker 3: by giving to what we call these super packs. So
0:53
Speaker 3: these super packs are packs that are not necessarily necessarily
0:57
Speaker 3: directly connected to a candidate. They legally can't, you know, confer,
1:03
Speaker 3: But there are workarounds, and with those packs you can
1:06
Speaker 3: give unlimited You can give any amount that you want,
1:09
Speaker 3: which is why we've seen this rise in multi, multi,
1:13
Speaker 3: multimillion dollar campaigns because they've been able to just flood money.
1:18
Speaker 3: And sometimes you'll see a pack that's one person alone.
1:20
Speaker 3: Other times you'll see a pack that might be you know,
1:23
Speaker 3: one hundred donors, ten donors who are able to give
1:26
Speaker 3: millions each and that's how they just get around and
1:28
Speaker 3: they're flooding our districts. And that's why every cycle we
1:32
Speaker 3: have records breaking for the most expensive primary and history.
1:36
Speaker 3: And if we abolish it, which is what our bill
1:39
Speaker 3: would do, it would say that there is the same
1:41
Speaker 3: cap on a super pack as there is on a
1:44
Speaker 3: cap on a pack that is directly connected to.
1:47
Speaker 2: A candidate or a labor union or anything else. So
1:49
Speaker 2: what essentially get rid of it?
1:51
Speaker 1: So I do have a question though there are Democrats
1:55
Speaker 1: that receive money from super packs. There are Republicans that
1:57
Speaker 1: receive money of super packs. So are are you receiving
2:01
Speaker 1: undivided support on the behalf of your fellow Democrats for them?
2:05
Speaker 3: Of course not, But right now is the moment, this
2:08
Speaker 3: is the most important moment to talk about it because
2:11
Speaker 3: as a lot of us could predict, right if we
2:13
Speaker 3: don't do something about money and politics.
2:15
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, sometimes it's like.
2:16
Speaker 3: Oh, well, we don't want to unilaterally disarm because Republicans
2:19
Speaker 3: will use it, other Democrats will use it.
2:21
Speaker 2: Well in primaries. You know, that's not even a right argument.
2:25
Speaker 3: But we are accustomed to our favorite superPAC coming in
2:29
Speaker 3: and keeping the type of candidates that we don't want
2:31
Speaker 3: into office.
2:32
Speaker 2: But that's a you know, that's a deal with the devil.
2:34
Speaker 2: It's a deal with the devil because it will always
2:37
Speaker 2: come back to bite us.
2:38
Speaker 3: Right now, we're looking at a rapid erosion of our
2:41
Speaker 3: democracy from every single angle, so from the expenses that
2:45
Speaker 3: it costs to even run, because can working class people
2:48
Speaker 3: run for Congress if it costs twenty million dollars? Can
2:51
Speaker 3: you run for Senate if it costs two hundred million dollars?
2:54
Speaker 2: You absolutely cannot.
2:56
Speaker 3: Then the costs the kalay with the voting rights being
3:00
Speaker 3: gutted now on the South there automatically redistricting. That is
3:03
Speaker 3: a democracy reform issue. To the way in the Wish
3:06
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court is moving to the decisions, the policies.
3:09
Speaker 2: That don't pass, that don't move.
3:11
Speaker 3: All of those things are rooted with some money in politics,
3:15
Speaker 3: keeping us from things, keeping us farther away from the
3:19
Speaker 3: majoritary in view, pushing unpopular positions, and all of those
3:24
Speaker 3: things are pushing our democracy further and further and further
3:27
Speaker 3: away from safety.
3:28
Speaker 1: Now, when you talk about this incredible influx of money
3:31
Speaker 1: into our politics, which essentially erases the voice of your
3:34
Speaker 1: average citizen who might be able to donate twenty dollars
3:37
Speaker 1: but certainly can't afford to run, would you disagree with
3:40
Speaker 1: the statement that we're living in the oligarchy.
3:42
Speaker 2: Yes, no, I would not disagree with it. I mean, no,
3:44
Speaker 2: it's true.
3:44
Speaker 3: You know, we look at the we all remember the
3:48
Speaker 3: picture from Trump's inauguration, his indoor inauguration, which was even
3:55
Speaker 3: more significant, right because it's always coold in January.
3:58
Speaker 2: So he didn't have his.
3:59
Speaker 3: Inauguration c where the people could access tickets and they
4:02
Speaker 3: can come. He had it in I think the Rotunza
4:06
Speaker 3: in the capital, so limited people in the front row there.
4:09
Speaker 3: You saw all of the tech billionaires. You saw what
4:13
Speaker 3: Bezos and Musk and Zuckerberg and all of these people
4:18
Speaker 3: who have invested a lot and investment wasn't for them
4:23
Speaker 3: to have a front row, you know it wasn't for
4:25
Speaker 3: them to have a front row seat and a swearing
4:27
Speaker 3: that that was not the reason they were investment. They
4:29
Speaker 3: were investing so that they can get the regulations or
4:31
Speaker 3: deregulations that they want, so that they can get the
4:34
Speaker 3: access that they can have, the conflict of interests that
4:36
Speaker 3: they maintain, so that they can get safety from prosecution
4:40
Speaker 3: when they've done things that there are or that they're
4:42
Speaker 3: not supposed to do. We've seen the DJ use to
4:45
Speaker 3: help Donald Trump's, you know, political allies, to harm political trumps,
4:50
Speaker 3: Donald Trump political enemies.
4:51
Speaker 2: Right, that's what an oligarchy is.
4:53
Speaker 3: And oligarchy is a government by the few, by the
4:57
Speaker 3: very very wealthy. And there's not an argument that our
5:01
Speaker 3: government right now is run by corporations, by corporate owners,
5:05
Speaker 3: and by billionaires.
5:06
Speaker 1: There are a lot of folks who are really concerned
5:09
Speaker 1: that the midterm elections are going to be rigged, are
5:12
Speaker 1: going to be stolen in some way, that there's going
5:14
Speaker 1: to be interference from.
5:15
Speaker 2: The Trump administration.
5:16
Speaker 1: What concerns you about the possible threats to having a
5:19
Speaker 1: free and fair election in the upcoming.
5:21
Speaker 2: Mentum, I'm concerned by what has already happened.
5:24
Speaker 3: I think that sometimes we don't react until that thing,
5:29
Speaker 3: until we don't have a free and fair election, but
5:31
Speaker 3: that we're already in pair, We're already in periled.
5:33
Speaker 2: Right, the gutting of the voting rights. That is catastrophic.
5:37
Speaker 2: And it isn't just catastrophic for the South.
5:39
Speaker 3: It's not just catastrophic for black representation or you know,
5:42
Speaker 3: marginalized minoritized representation.
5:44
Speaker 2: It's catastrophic for.
5:45
Speaker 3: A democracy wherever you exist within it.
5:49
Speaker 2: It is a blow to the institution itself. And now
5:52
Speaker 2: because of that.
5:53
Speaker 3: Now, because people believe that well that's the South's problem,
5:55
Speaker 3: you know, or that's a black folks problem, you know,
5:58
Speaker 3: they're not recognizing the ways in which all of the
6:00
Speaker 3: hopes and dreams they have for our society are now
6:02
Speaker 3: tied up to the fate of black people being able
6:05
Speaker 3: to push through illegal gerrymanders.
6:08
Speaker 2: Right. So that's already happening.
6:10
Speaker 1: You know.
6:10
Speaker 3: We saw we're in America, and we have seen the
6:14
Speaker 3: results of elections overturned so that they can then go
6:17
Speaker 3: and redistrict right. We have seen elections canceled so that
6:21
Speaker 3: they can go and redistricts.
6:23
Speaker 2: Right.
6:23
Speaker 3: We've seen extreme Supreme Court decisions that make it harder
6:27
Speaker 3: and harder for everyday people to actually have a say
6:30
Speaker 3: in this democras like we already those concerns are already justified.
6:35
Speaker 2: So right now, I believe.
6:36
Speaker 3: Whatever it is that Trump is indicating that the Republicans
6:39
Speaker 3: around them are, I believe them, and we have to
6:42
Speaker 3: start moving like we believe them too, because they have
6:44
Speaker 3: executed a plan.
6:45
Speaker 2: And it has been meticulous.
6:47
Speaker 3: So if we are worried about now the last safeguard
6:51
Speaker 3: of our elections that you can go and vote, then
6:54
Speaker 3: we're already too late because guess what, There's already been
6:57
Speaker 3: laws passed in states that you can't pass out water food.
7:00
Speaker 2: When people are waiting in line. Right, They're already making
7:03
Speaker 2: it less free, less fair. So that's already a reality.
7:09
Speaker 2: So I think that question is a little the question
7:11
Speaker 2: is already too late.
7:12
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned something that I've been thinking about
7:15
Speaker 1: quite a bit, which is the erasure of black voices
7:17
Speaker 1: and black voters. Do you know any anything that the
7:20
Speaker 1: Democratic Party is working on right now to try to
7:23
Speaker 1: help black voters stay enfranchised and protect their rights.
7:27
Speaker 3: So the reality is is that you know, the Democrat
7:31
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party already has those plans, like we already,
7:34
Speaker 3: They already exist in you know, the John R. Lewis
7:36
Speaker 3: Voting Rights Act, They already exist in my you know,
7:39
Speaker 3: Ball of super PACs Act, They already exist in our
7:41
Speaker 3: end Citizens United Constitutional Amendment. You know, these solutions, these
7:46
Speaker 3: proposals already exist. The trifecta that exists around us is real.
7:51
Speaker 3: Right now, we need people, We need people to say
7:55
Speaker 3: that we will no longer perche buy into a system
7:58
Speaker 3: that's oppressing us.
7:59
Speaker 1: Right.
8:00
Speaker 2: That's that's a hard question, right because like what can
8:02
Speaker 2: we do?
8:02
Speaker 3: And it's not to say that we can do nothing,
8:04
Speaker 3: That's never what I'm saying, But it is to say
8:07
Speaker 3: that in between elections that people have power and responsibility too.
8:11
Speaker 3: So if we're upset with the actions of Texas or
8:14
Speaker 3: Louisiana or Virginia, then we need to start to move
8:18
Speaker 3: as if they are accountable to us in and out
8:20
Speaker 3: of election cycles and the corporations behind.
8:23
Speaker 2: Because if you have an oligarchy, then who do you target.
8:26
Speaker 3: You target the pockets of the people who are running
8:28
Speaker 3: your government.
8:29
Speaker 2: So I think that we're all.
8:30
Speaker 3: Going to have to start to collectively think about what
8:32
Speaker 3: we're willing to do to protect our democracy right now
8:36
Speaker 3: in lieu of a president who will sign a bill
8:39
Speaker 3: you know, that will do the exact opposite of what
8:42
Speaker 3: he's trying to do. So I think about, how do
8:44
Speaker 3: we now help invest in our organizing on the ground
8:48
Speaker 3: with our labor unions, organizing on the ground within our
8:51
Speaker 3: communities to get people educated, to help them know their rights,
8:55
Speaker 3: to help them get to polls. How are we investing
8:58
Speaker 3: in and making sure that our you know, voter protection
9:01
Speaker 3: folks are able to work into function, that they exist
9:05
Speaker 3: in the places that need the most. How are we
9:07
Speaker 3: making sure that people who are organizing around voter turnout
9:12
Speaker 3: with you know, vote by mail ballots, that they're helping
9:14
Speaker 3: people to get their ballots in in a legal way,
9:17
Speaker 3: in a safe way, so if they can't be overturned.
9:19
Speaker 3: We're going to have to be crafty, like we have
9:20
Speaker 3: to do all of these things at once. And if
9:23
Speaker 3: we're able to earn a majority, we are going to
9:26
Speaker 3: have to push through real reform irrespective of the filibuster.
9:30
Speaker 2: And if the filibuster is in our way, then that's
9:32
Speaker 2: going to have to move too.
9:33
Speaker 1: You know, there was just seventy billion dollars you know,
9:37
Speaker 1: set asite to be allocated to ICE and CBP even
9:40
Speaker 1: though they just had a record breaking one hundred and
9:43
Speaker 1: forty billion dollars you know, added to their budget last year.
9:46
Speaker 1: There are some genuine concerns that the reason why that
9:49
Speaker 1: seventy billion dollars was allocated was to ensure that ice
9:52
Speaker 1: could be used to intimidate at the polls. Do you
9:55
Speaker 1: think that's a valid concern.
9:56
Speaker 2: Of course they're intimidating now.
9:59
Speaker 3: The deployment of ice into American cities is an intimidation tactic, right,
10:04
Speaker 3: and it went quite beyond intimidation. We've seen, you know,
10:07
Speaker 3: the murder of Americans, We've seen the murder of people
10:11
Speaker 3: in our communities. So no, that is that's a really
10:14
Speaker 3: valid concern. But also it's recognizing pattern. It's pattern recognition.
10:19
Speaker 3: So we know that they're desperate. Republicans are desperate right now.
10:22
Speaker 3: They don't believe that they can win in free and
10:25
Speaker 3: fear elections. They don't believe they can win when we
10:28
Speaker 3: have even playing field, which is why they are trying
10:31
Speaker 3: to uneven the playing field, right, So we have to
10:34
Speaker 3: recognize that too. That means that they know they're working
10:37
Speaker 3: with unpopular opinions, they know that they're working against the
10:41
Speaker 3: majoritary in view.
10:42
Speaker 2: So we also have to be ready to counselor act
10:45
Speaker 2: that right.
10:46
Speaker 3: Voting, it is your legal right to vote. You are
10:48
Speaker 3: a citizen and you are registered to vote. It is
10:50
Speaker 3: your legal right to vote, and you should do it
10:52
Speaker 3: proudly with your hay hanlah. You do not have to
10:54
Speaker 3: get out of the line if you are in line
10:57
Speaker 3: by the time that's your poll closed.
10:58
Speaker 2: You know, we joke about it now. It's like, if
10:59
Speaker 2: you're a line, stay in line, stay in line.
11:02
Speaker 1: Right.
11:02
Speaker 3: If you are in a state where someone can't bring
11:04
Speaker 3: you water, you can't bring food, then let's help make
11:06
Speaker 3: people lunches beforehand so that when they're already in line
11:09
Speaker 3: and it's hot in Atlanta, you know, then let's make
11:12
Speaker 3: sure that we already have water before they get to
11:14
Speaker 3: those lines, because we know what their tactics are and
11:16
Speaker 3: we can operate around them. So yeah, we're gonna have
11:19
Speaker 3: to start moving like that a little bit too. And
11:21
Speaker 3: that's all right, but let's make sure that our community
11:23
Speaker 3: shows up to the polls too.
11:24
Speaker 2: To protect those people who are most afraid to show up.
11:27
Speaker 1: Now, I might be paraphrasing you, but you said something
11:30
Speaker 1: to the effect of that poverty is a policy choice,
11:33
Speaker 1: and in the richest country in the world. Why do
11:36
Speaker 1: you think there are so many lawmakers who've accepted mass homelessness,
11:41
Speaker 1: housing insecurity, are outrageously expensive health care system.
11:45
Speaker 2: Why has that being accepted as normal?
11:47
Speaker 3: Because a lot of them hate poor people, And honestly,
11:50
Speaker 3: we have to start. We have to start without honest
11:52
Speaker 3: reality that there are people who hate poor people, and
11:55
Speaker 3: they hate the people who are more likely to be
11:57
Speaker 3: poor because the systemic policy.
11:59
Speaker 2: Choice this, so it ends up being cyclical.
12:02
Speaker 3: If you come from a lineage of believing that black
12:05
Speaker 3: people are lesser than or believing that immigrants are lesser than,
12:08
Speaker 3: and then you then get into a policy position, you're
12:11
Speaker 3: not going to go out of your way to help
12:12
Speaker 3: those populations succeed. You're not going to go out of
12:15
Speaker 3: your way to make sure that they're protected. When America
12:19
Speaker 3: as a whole is going through the hardest times like
12:22
Speaker 3: we've seen through, you know, the financial crisis, the housing crisis,
12:26
Speaker 3: the COVID crisis, right, and poor people, it's harder for
12:31
Speaker 3: poor people to get to office.
12:34
Speaker 2: Right.
12:34
Speaker 3: That very simple barrier explains a whole bunch. How many
12:39
Speaker 3: members of Congress have ever lived in poverty? We talk
12:41
Speaker 3: about this a lot how many remember when they were
12:43
Speaker 3: all doing the snap challenge and they were like, I'm
12:45
Speaker 3: going to live today on you know, seven dollars, and then.
12:49
Speaker 2: I'm going to go back to what I was doing
12:51
Speaker 2: Like that.
12:51
Speaker 3: The fact that they even had to do that simulation
12:54
Speaker 3: shows you how disconnected they are from people, from real people.
12:57
Speaker 3: How many times, you know, do members of Congress actually
13:03
Speaker 3: live amongst people who are struggling, or how many times
13:06
Speaker 3: do they actually recognize the ways in which people are struggling.
13:09
Speaker 2: Because sometimes we think that struggle has to look a particular.
13:11
Speaker 3: Way, and then we demonize people not knowing the struggle
13:15
Speaker 3: that they're going through, and then that person gets pushed
13:17
Speaker 3: further and further outside of our eleectoral system by design.
13:20
Speaker 2: So I think that until we.
13:21
Speaker 3: Are able to have a truly reflective democracy, until poor
13:24
Speaker 3: people are able to be represented in government at every
13:27
Speaker 3: single level, then we are not going to see a
13:29
Speaker 3: government that reflects the needs and the interests.
13:31
Speaker 2: Of poor people.
13:32
Speaker 3: Right now, we see the needs of corporations reflected. We
13:36
Speaker 3: see the needs and the perspectives of lawyers. As a lawyer,
13:40
Speaker 3: but I work, I can't work glass, But you're going
13:43
Speaker 3: to see those needs reflected Wherever you see disparities in representation,
13:48
Speaker 3: you see disparities also in resources and investments, and you know,
13:53
Speaker 3: you see gaps and policy. So yeah, you can't serve
13:56
Speaker 3: people you hate.
13:57
Speaker 1: I do have to point out that there are progressives
13:59
Speaker 1: that spend time criticizing Republicans with their they also sometimes
14:03
Speaker 1: spend time criticizing Democrats. So I wanted to know what
14:06
Speaker 1: you thought the Democratic leadership has been a little too
14:09
Speaker 1: cautious about confronting whether it's poverty or healthcare, or housing,
14:15
Speaker 1: or corporate influence or even the war in Palestine. What
14:19
Speaker 1: do you think they've been a little bit too cautious about.
14:21
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that the handling of the
14:23
Speaker 3: war Palace, the genocide and Palestine is I don't think
14:26
Speaker 3: that's appropriately, you know, even characterized as cautious, because that
14:31
Speaker 3: was not That has not been a cautious approach. It
14:33
Speaker 3: has been a very aggressive approach. It has been a
14:36
Speaker 3: very neglectible approach from both sides.
14:40
Speaker 2: I think.
14:42
Speaker 3: I mean, we can say we can talk about you know, Gaza,
14:44
Speaker 3: we can talk about corporations.
14:46
Speaker 2: There's absolutely been a hesitancy.
14:48
Speaker 3: You know, I often say, you know that the Democratic
14:52
Speaker 3: Party has grown accustom to trying to serve two masters.
14:54
Speaker 3: And I don't mean this as an as individual, as
14:56
Speaker 3: I mean this institutionally, that as an institution, as the
14:59
Speaker 3: party is that we have been able to get away
15:01
Speaker 3: for too long with serving two masters, and we're not
15:03
Speaker 3: recognizing that the moment is calling for us to pick one.
15:06
Speaker 3: That people are constituents, our neighbors. They are tired of that.
15:10
Speaker 3: They perceive it, they see it. So back in the
15:13
Speaker 3: day when it was like normal that you know, you
15:15
Speaker 3: went to dinner or lunch with the lobbyists and the corporations,
15:17
Speaker 3: and the corporations donate to you, and then they're in
15:19
Speaker 3: your office, and that was the way it was done,
15:21
Speaker 3: and people accept that.
15:22
Speaker 2: People don't are not done anymore. People are not okay
15:24
Speaker 2: with that anymore.
15:26
Speaker 3: People are waking up all over the country of all
15:29
Speaker 3: political backgrounds, and they are all saying that this government
15:33
Speaker 3: is not working for us.
15:33
Speaker 2: Are all saying that our material conditions are not changing. Right.
15:38
Speaker 2: So that is a big one.
15:39
Speaker 3: And I think that the real thing that I think
15:41
Speaker 3: leadership maybe, and I don't mean House leadership, I mean
15:44
Speaker 3: just all demmercer want to be the DNC, the House,
15:46
Speaker 3: the States leadership and our party are. They're not addressing
15:51
Speaker 3: the tension between the people and our party who are
15:56
Speaker 3: maybe more established, most likely to be middle upper class,
16:02
Speaker 3: and the people who are more marginalized with our party.
16:04
Speaker 3: They're not addressing attention between progressives and moderates, right, they're
16:09
Speaker 3: treating We talk about the Big ten all the time,
16:11
Speaker 3: but when a progressive actually tries to run for office,
16:13
Speaker 3: when a progressive black, young black woman is running against
16:17
Speaker 3: an incumbent, maybe the only way that she can ever
16:19
Speaker 3: get here because she.
16:20
Speaker 2: Can wait her turn forever.
16:21
Speaker 3: And we know that the term doesn't come around for
16:24
Speaker 3: young latinas or for young black women. Does it come along,
16:27
Speaker 3: you know, doesn't come along for queer and trans people,
16:29
Speaker 3: don't come along for us. So that they're now kind
16:32
Speaker 3: of closing those doors or those windows, shutting those windows
16:35
Speaker 3: that were open for them. That is a real tension point.
16:37
Speaker 3: And I don't think we're always being honest with ourselves.
16:40
Speaker 3: And I think that one of the bigger problems is
16:41
Speaker 3: that sometimes, you know, they think that by attacking us,
16:44
Speaker 3: the candidate or the elected official, that that's all they're attacking.
16:47
Speaker 3: But there are millions of people who see themselves in
16:50
Speaker 3: the type of politics that we conduct, that we choose.
16:54
Speaker 3: They see themselves in our decisions to you know, speak
16:58
Speaker 3: out against you know, a genis they see themselves in
17:00
Speaker 3: our in our policies around medicare for all, you know,
17:03
Speaker 3: or taxing the rich or you know, uh, so that
17:06
Speaker 3: we can.
17:06
Speaker 2: Fund schools so that we can pay for the needs.
17:09
Speaker 3: They see themselves in that movement, and when they attack us,
17:11
Speaker 3: they're pushing them out.
17:13
Speaker 2: And right now we need more people. We need more people.
17:16
Speaker 2: So I think that that that is our primary tension.
17:18
Speaker 3: And once we started to talk about that, honestly, it
17:20
Speaker 3: will be uncomfortable, but it will be powerful. And I
17:23
Speaker 3: think that that is the way that we will actually
17:25
Speaker 3: feed into a coalition that will defeat authoritarianism, It will
17:29
Speaker 3: defeat fascism.
17:30
Speaker 2: But we got to get through this moment.
17:32
Speaker 1: You are on the House Server Site Committee in relation
17:35
Speaker 1: to Epstein. I believe I saw you at the last
17:37
Speaker 1: roundtable where Sky Roberts was there.
17:39
Speaker 2: Conna was there. This upcoming Monday, I believe it is, uh,
17:44
Speaker 2: oh it's Tuesday. Excuse me.
17:46
Speaker 1: The upcoming Tuesday, Epstein's assistant Leslie Groff is going to
17:50
Speaker 1: be testifying. What do you expect to learn and what
17:53
Speaker 1: do you hope is going to be the outcome of
17:55
Speaker 1: her testimony?
17:57
Speaker 3: So I actually haven't been briefed on it. We've seen
17:59
Speaker 3: a number of I mean, obviously we've done despite so
18:03
Speaker 3: many barriers, a lot of obstruction and honestly a very
18:08
Speaker 3: unwilling partner in the you know, in cher Comer and in.
18:12
Speaker 2: The other side, a lot of the folks on the
18:14
Speaker 2: other side.
18:14
Speaker 3: We've actually been able to move on a number of
18:16
Speaker 3: subpoenas as we've seen a lot of folks who have
18:18
Speaker 3: been coming in to speak to us about what they
18:20
Speaker 3: know and share and what they know.
18:21
Speaker 2: It's been, you know, it's been up and down. We've
18:24
Speaker 2: gotten some people who, you know.
18:25
Speaker 3: We suspect a lot to us, it's illegal to a
18:28
Speaker 3: lot of Congress, especially if you're under oath. We've got others,
18:31
Speaker 3: you know, who know limited things and they are forthcoming
18:34
Speaker 3: with it. But every opportunity that we can take that
18:37
Speaker 3: we can take to talk to somebody who's connected to
18:39
Speaker 3: this is an important one, and it's so important for
18:42
Speaker 3: these survivors who are looking not just for justice but
18:45
Speaker 3: for they're they're leading us kind of on a scavenger
18:48
Speaker 3: run right to piece us together like they deserve to
18:51
Speaker 3: have happened. So I'm I'm always you know, I'm always
18:54
Speaker 3: open when they come, when folks come to talk to us.
18:57
Speaker 3: We take every interview, every you know what there is
19:00
Speaker 3: a deposition that is a rule one, or every interview
19:02
Speaker 3: or every hearing that they come to. We take them
19:04
Speaker 3: all very seriously because we are conducting a serious investigation
19:07
Speaker 3: and we want to know, you know, what stones have
19:09
Speaker 3: we not turned, what maybe has been not been publicized
19:13
Speaker 3: yet that you could share with us, because our.
19:14
Speaker 2: Committee is you know, we are the committee George's So
19:17
Speaker 2: we'll see.
19:18
Speaker 3: I take literally, I take every one of these as
19:20
Speaker 3: a we'll see how it turns out.
19:22
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that Leslie Groff is gonna go in there
19:24
Speaker 1: because she essentially was like the air traffic controller over
19:27
Speaker 1: his life. She got visus for the girls, she arranged
19:30
Speaker 1: their transportation, she spoke to some of the young women
19:33
Speaker 1: on the phone, she saw some of them in person.
19:36
Speaker 1: So there's a chance that she knows she was she
19:39
Speaker 1: was the utter point person basically for everything that was
19:42
Speaker 1: going on in Epstein's life. So there's a lot of
19:44
Speaker 1: names she's gonna know. Is there a chance, So is
19:47
Speaker 1: there a chance that if she gives some of these
19:49
Speaker 1: names financial institution, names people who he was feeding these
19:53
Speaker 1: young girls too, who he was allowing to, you know,
19:56
Speaker 1: be a predator. To do you think that you're gonna
19:58
Speaker 1: be able to use that information to try to get
20:00
Speaker 1: some real accountability and to get some charges against these
20:04
Speaker 1: people who are co conspirators and predators.
20:07
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that is the absolute, you know,
20:09
Speaker 2: the end game, Like we're not doing this for fun.
20:12
Speaker 3: But again, the reason why we need to hold this
20:14
Speaker 3: deja accountable right now is because this is their job.
20:17
Speaker 3: So if all of the information that we're gonna get
20:19
Speaker 3: is going to fall on death there is because the
20:21
Speaker 3: DJ doesn't want to prosecute people, then we need to
20:23
Speaker 3: make sure that we have a different DOJ as quickly
20:26
Speaker 3: as we can have a different DOJ.
20:28
Speaker 2: Which is why all of these are important pieces.
20:31
Speaker 3: Being able to actually have the gavel so that you know,
20:33
Speaker 3: when people come to speak to us, we can actually
20:35
Speaker 3: follow up, you know, when they don't come, we can
20:37
Speaker 3: hold them in contempt. Then moving to a presidency that
20:41
Speaker 3: we can actually appoint a serious deal attorney general that
20:45
Speaker 3: isn't you know, pushing off blame for everything is going
20:48
Speaker 3: to be the next step, because if we are not
20:50
Speaker 3: willing to bring charges, there's not gonna be trials from this,
20:52
Speaker 3: then we're not gonna get justice. There are more people,
20:54
Speaker 3: as we all know, than Epstein and glame Maxwell, and
20:57
Speaker 3: if we are not going to say that they are
20:59
Speaker 3: going to be held accountable, you know, legally, then we
21:02
Speaker 3: are failing not justice survivors, We're failing every single American
21:06
Speaker 3: who has come to learn that we're there. It should
21:08
Speaker 3: accountability for the breaking of laws and when they're heinous
21:11
Speaker 3: crimes like this to allow anyone to get off Again,
21:14
Speaker 3: I always say, shaming is not justice, right just unveiling
21:18
Speaker 3: revealing them is not justice. Justice is going to look
21:21
Speaker 3: like reparations for the for everybody who has been harmed,
21:23
Speaker 3: and is going to look like true accountability legally, not
21:28
Speaker 3: whatever they're doing to help Galley Maxwell be more comfortable.