Latest / The Thought Leader Revolution Podcast / EP774: Dr. John Uecker - How To Be The Elon Musk Of Your Space

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EP774: Dr. John Uecker - How To Be The Elon Musk Of Your Space · The Thought Leader Revolution Podcast

• 0:02
  John Uecker: It takes time to get your name out there, and it's a little bit chicken and egg because
• 0:07
  John Uecker: a lot of people don't want to join you if you haven't done this before, but you can't
• 0:10
  John Uecker: have done it before if you haven't.
• 0:13
  John Uecker: So you have to prove it out.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Thought Leader Revolution with Nicky Billou.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Join the revolution.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: There's never been a better time in history to speak your truth, find your freedom, and
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: make your fortune.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Each week, we interview the world's top thought leaders and learn the secrets of how they built
• 0:34
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• 0:40
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• 0:46
  Nicky Billou: Welcome to another exciting episode of the podcast, The Thought Leader Revolution. I'm
• 0:50
  Nicky Billou: your host, Nicky Ballou. I'm born to have an exciting guest lined up for you today.
• 0:53
  Nicky Billou: Today's guest is a truth thought leader. He is an innovator when it comes to the field of
• 1:02
  Nicky Billou: medical devices. He has invented an incredible medical device. He is the founder and CEO of
• 1:09
  Nicky Billou: ClearCam. He's been a practicing surgeon for over 20 years. I'm speaking, of course,
• 1:13
  Nicky Billou: of none other than the one, the only, the legendary John Uecker. Welcome to the show, John.
• 1:19
  John Uecker: Thank you. Hello. Appreciate that introduction.
• 1:22
  Nicky Billou: You bet, my man. You bet. So, brother, the folks that listen to this show are entrepreneurs and they're not here because of me. I'm here every week. They're here for you. They want to learn from you. They want to grow. But before they can do that, they got to get to know you. So tell us your backstory. How'd you get to be the great John Yuku?
• 1:38
  John Uecker: Well, I grew up mostly in Houston and then went to school at the University of Texas here in Austin and then went to medical school, spent a little time in the Navy and then came back to Austin.
• 1:53
  John Uecker: And after my surgical training in Navy time and been practicing here since 2003, started working with engineers at UT around 2013 and working with them on different medical devices.
• 2:08
  John Uecker: And one of those devices that started in the classroom spun out into a company.
• 2:14
  John Uecker: And that's that happened in 2018. And eight years later, here we are with ClearCam.
• 2:22
  John Uecker: Where we are today.
• 2:23
  Nicky Billou: so my man tell me about clear camp what what is the big deal about clear camp what's the innovation
• 2:31
  John Uecker: so the innovation is um in laparoscopic or robotic surgery um we are putting scopes long thin long
• 2:42
  John Uecker: skinny scopes into the body those scopes are attached to cameras that are then attached to
• 2:47
  John Uecker: video towers. And despite all the advances in video equipment and cameras and fiber optics and
• 2:54
  John Uecker: all those things, we're still here in 2026, taking the camera out of the body and cleaning it off
• 3:03
  John Uecker: on different products every time the tip of the scope gets dirty. And so we think that is
• 3:11
  John Uecker: kind of crazy. And so we made a lens cleaner that you don't have to remove the scope.
• 3:16
  John Uecker: the scope it's basically a windshield wiper for the laparoscope so very analogous to windshield
• 3:22
  John Uecker: wipers in cars back in the day people didn't think they needed them and then when they had them
• 3:26
  John Uecker: like how did we ever live without that and even further down the road when they made automated
• 3:31
  John Uecker: wipers people didn't think they needed them and then now everybody has them and can't live without
• 3:36
  John Uecker: them and so we're currently have the manual wiper but we're driving towards automated wipers in the
• 3:43
  Nicky Billou: future. So for the layperson, explain why this matters. So this matters because over 40% of the
• 3:53
  John Uecker: time in what we call mentally invasive surgery, so laparoscopic and robotic surgery, there's some
• 3:59
  John Uecker: degree of compromised vision from the lens getting smudged and people continue to work through it
• 4:07
  John Uecker: because it's so annoying to take the scope out and clean it off. 20% of intraoperative injuries
• 4:13
  John Uecker: to compromise visualization.
• 4:16
  John Uecker: We just think that's unacceptable.
• 4:19
  John Uecker: And we also think it's crazy that we're working in blurred environments
• 4:23
  John Uecker: when we're doing operating on people.
• 4:26
  John Uecker: So our technology allows you to have clear vision throughout the entire operation,
• 4:30
  John Uecker: and it saves time.
• 4:31
  John Uecker: About 7% of the time is spent taking that scope out, putting it back in the body.
• 4:38
  John Uecker: Added time in surgeries leads to increased risk of complications.
• 4:43
  John Uecker: infections, surgical site infections, blood clots, things like that. So it makes it more
• 4:50
  John Uecker: efficient, more safe, less frustrating, and just kind of maintains the momentum of the operation.
• 4:56
  Nicky Billou: That makes sense. So who buys these things?
• 5:00
  John Uecker: Hospitals. So hospitals and hospital systems. So we're in a few different hospital systems.
• 5:08
  John Uecker: We're in Emory University in Atlanta. We're in hospitals here in Austin and the Ascension Hospital system and the Baylor Scott and White system.
• 5:17
  John Uecker: We're in the VA hospital in Orlando. So we're in the VA system and working on several other hospitals in the Atlanta, Florida and Texas regions.
• 5:30
  Nicky Billou: So look at this from the point of view of being a thought leader, somebody who's thinking through complex problems that people give a good gosh darn about solving.
• 5:45
  Nicky Billou: What made you go there?
• 5:48
  John Uecker: It started out of just frustration because in the operating room, particularly in teaching environments and teaching hospitals, it's usually the lowest person that's actually driving the laparoscope.
• 6:00
  John Uecker: while you're operating and so um so it's a med school medical student or an intern or an or tech
• 6:09
  John Uecker: and every time so you're telling them where to look but then every time it gets dirty they have
• 6:15
  John Uecker: to take that thing out clean it off and then find you again where you're operating and it was just
• 6:23
  John Uecker: sheer frustration from that that drove me to partnering with the engineers to come up with a
• 6:27
  Nicky Billou: solution. You know, necessity is the mother of invention sometimes, right? That's right.
• 6:34
  Nicky Billou: So I'm going to have you put on your hat as a problem solver rather than as a CEO of ClearCam
• 6:40
  Nicky Billou: right now. And someone's listening to this, they may not even be in the same industry as you,
• 6:45
  Nicky Billou: but speak to some of the principles that you think they need to be aware of in order to
• 6:53
  Nicky Billou: things like this that are causing frustration in the marketplace. So what would you say to an
• 7:00
  Nicky Billou: entrepreneur who wants to learn how to think like you thought in this instance in their business?
• 7:07
  John Uecker: I think, you know, getting fresh eyes that may not even know your business, get in there and
• 7:15
  John Uecker: look at it and ask the questions, why do you do things this way, is very valuable.
• 7:24
  John Uecker: because, for example, in this situation, most people just say that's the way we do it.
• 7:30
  John Uecker: You know, that's the way we've always done it and that's the way we do it.
• 7:32
  John Uecker: And, you know, it's fun.
• 7:35
  John Uecker: So it's good to have fresh eyes on a situation to ask these questions.
• 7:40
  John Uecker: And, you know, why are you doing it this way and why don't you do it another way kind of thing?
• 7:46
  John Uecker: So that's one of the things that's nice being in a teaching environment is I teach a course that brings students,
• 7:52
  John Uecker: engineering and medical students into those types of environments who ask exactly those kind of
• 7:57
  John Uecker: questions. Why are you doing this this way? And that can lead to innovation and new ideas. And
• 8:05
  John Uecker: then it's just being persistent enough to see the idea through. Talk a bit more about persistence
• 8:12
  Nicky Billou: because a lot of people don't really appreciate how much persistence is a part of the success
• 8:18
  John Uecker: equation, right? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, it's interesting when we show people that are in
• 8:24
  John Uecker: this space, our product, they're like, you know, that's so obvious, you know, why didn't I think
• 8:30
  John Uecker: of that? And, and a lot of people even saying, well, I had that idea, you know, but it takes a
• 8:37
  John Uecker: long time to actually make a device and get it through manufacturing and validation and regulatory
• 8:46
  John Uecker: processes in medicine. And so you really do have to have patience and persistence and you're going
• 8:55
  John Uecker: to fail and you're going to have to learn from your failures and keep moving on. The first thing
• 9:01
  John Uecker: you come up with is not going to be the magic bullet. It's going to, you have to iterate and
• 9:06
  Nicky Billou: improve upon it over time as you learn more and more about it. Well, that's very true. The first
• 9:12
  Nicky Billou: thing you come up with is never the magic bullet, right? Iterate, iterate, iterate. Yep. How many
• 9:18
  Nicky Billou: iterations did it take for you guys to figure out the product that you came up with? We have a
• 9:25
  John Uecker: shadow box with a whole number of prototypes, probably 20 different prototypes. And then even
• 9:32
  John Uecker: when we got the product to market a few years ago, we've iterated, we have our fourth version
• 9:39
  John Uecker: of that product and market. So we did over 3,000 cases. And along the way, we identified
• 9:47
  John Uecker: opportunities for improvement and have continued to improve upon the product.
• 9:55
  Nicky Billou: So, John, basically, since you've gone to market in 2018, you started this process 2015,
• 10:02
  Nicky Billou: you came up with this idea. 2018, you spin it out into a company and today's 2026. So 11 years,
• 10:11
  Nicky Billou: you've had at least 24 different versions of this in that 11 year period, right?
• 10:17
  Nicky Billou: Yes.
• 10:19
  Nicky Billou: And you mentioned at the beginning of the episode that currently the product is akin to the manual
• 10:27
  Nicky Billou: windshield wiper and you're going for at least version 25 with the automated automatic windshield
• 10:35
  Nicky Billou: wiper correct right yes wow so yeah that really drives it home i mean
• 10:45
  Nicky Billou: you know imagine someone is uh creating a i don't know a teaching program or a course a
• 10:52
  Nicky Billou: a coaching methodology, you really got to be able and willing to iterate it again and again and again
• 10:59
  Nicky Billou: to make it work and get better and more relevance to the people you're seeking to help. I think
• 11:04
  Nicky Billou: that's a very powerful message. That could be a good title for the episode, iterate, iterate,
• 11:08
  John Uecker: iterate, and iterate again. Yeah. Yeah. And this is a relatively simple product. You can only imagine
• 11:16
  John Uecker: when you get to more complex products, how much iteration goes on.
• 11:22
  John Uecker: So how do you go about getting the attention of customers and frankly, investors?
• 11:29
  Nicky Billou: Is one of the things we say in the world of thought leadership, right?
• 11:32
  Nicky Billou: Is who's the prototypical commercial thought leader out there?
• 11:37
  Nicky Billou: Well, I'd say it's Elon Musk.
• 11:38
  Nicky Billou: Okay.
• 11:39
  Nicky Billou: So what is special about Elon Musk?
• 11:42
  Nicky Billou: Well, Elon Musk is known for being the man who sees around corners and sees the fantastic future vision, the vision of a fantastic future.
• 11:54
  Nicky Billou: People, if Elon Musk says, I'm getting involved in company X, product X, and that's interesting because he has a company called X.
• 12:04
  Nicky Billou: I didn't even think about when I said that, but that's pretty good.
• 12:08
  Nicky Billou: You instantly have a whole bunch of people that go, Elon's involved.
• 12:12
  Nicky Billou: I got to buy it, right? I got to buy a Tesla. I got to jump on X, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is.
• 12:18
  Nicky Billou: And then there'll be a whole bunch of other people that go, I got to work for that company,
• 12:22
  Nicky Billou: right? So he attracts not just customers, but top tier talent that will take less money for
• 12:28
  Nicky Billou: the chance to work with Elon Musk, right? And then finally, investors, they're like,
• 12:34
  Nicky Billou: that's it. Elon's involved. Here's my gazillion dollars, right? So he attracts,
• 12:39
  Nicky Billou: This is a prototypical thought leader. He attracts customers. He attracts top level talent to work for him and he attracts investors. So I'm kind of wondering for yourself, because you're the fellow who came up with a lot of this. I know you've got a team and they've helped you and all that good stuff, but you're the public face of this. How in your mind does Dr. John Uecker become the Elon Musk of this space?
• 13:09
  John Uecker: That's a great question. And before I answer it, I'll just say that, yeah, Elon Musk is interesting. You know, of as many companies, one of them, he's developing robots that are going to reportedly be doing surgery and replacing surgeons.
• 13:25
  John Uecker: What?
• 13:26
  John Uecker: Yeah.
• 13:27
  John Uecker: No kidding. That's not Neuralink, is it?
• 13:30
  John Uecker: No, it's not. That's a different one. But one of the things that both that and his cars and a lot of other things is they're getting data from cameras in order for them to function properly.
• 13:46
  John Uecker: And the robotic surgeons, if they ever will need clear data.
• 13:52
  John Uecker: And so there's a lot of softwares out there now in the operating rooms that are taking camera feeds from laparoscopes and using that data to do a lot of things to improve efficiency and safety.
• 14:04
  John Uecker: And my point being is if that data is not clear, if the vision is not clear, that data won't be good data.
• 14:12
  John Uecker: And so our technology enables those technologies as well.
• 14:18
  John Uecker: And super cool.
• 14:20
  John Uecker: Anyway, he's going to need a technology to keep clear data going on all these cameras that will facilitate.
• 14:27
  John Uecker: Elon, if you're listening.
• 14:31
  John Uecker: So anyway, yeah, I think, you know, to become the thought leader of the Elon in my world,
• 14:38
  John Uecker: Again, it takes time to get your name out there and to get and it's it's it's a little bit chicken and egg because a lot of people don't want to join you if you haven't done this before.
• 14:49
  John Uecker: But you can't have done it before if you haven't.
• 14:52
  John Uecker: So you have to prove it out.
• 14:55
  John Uecker: And so I think just success breeds, you know, it's one feeds the other.
• 15:01
  John Uecker: So once you get the surgeons to get on board, which we have a lot of excited surgeons for the product, then that gets investors on board.
• 15:11
  John Uecker: When the investors are on board, that gets surgeons interested because you have funding to advance the products and improve them and so forth and so on.
• 15:18
  John Uecker: And so it's definitely a circle that feeds each other.
• 15:24
  John Uecker: And if one stalls, then it stalls the whole thing.
• 15:27
  John Uecker: So maintaining momentum and maintaining excitement and beating the drum of how you're continuing to advance and expand and improve is really important to people.
• 15:42
  John Uecker: And people want to jump on.
• 15:43
  John Uecker: I mean, the other trick when it comes to new technology is identifying the early adopters, which, you know, people don't wear a sign saying I'm an early adopter.
• 15:53
  John Uecker: It's kind of not that easy to identify those people sometimes.
• 15:57
  John Uecker: So that's another trick is getting early adopters and then the other people will follow the early adopters.
• 16:03
  Nicky Billou: Well, those are good answers.
• 16:06
  Nicky Billou: Let me tell you what I think, because this is my business.
• 16:08
  Nicky Billou: I help folks with thought leadership.
• 16:11
  Nicky Billou: And so I think if you were my client, I would advise you to do three things.
• 16:16
  Nicky Billou: And maybe you're doing these.
• 16:18
  Nicky Billou: Maybe you're doing some of them.
• 16:19
  Nicky Billou: Maybe you're doing none of them.
• 16:21
  Nicky Billou: Maybe you're doing some to certain degrees, but not enough.
• 16:24
  Nicky Billou: But the first thing I would say to you is, John, you're an articulate, attractive human being.
• 16:32
  Nicky Billou: I want you to get the heck out there talking about this on all kinds of platforms.
• 16:37
  Nicky Billou: So podcasts, panels, conferences.
• 16:42
  Nicky Billou: I want you shooting video of you and talking about the vision, the concept all the time.
• 16:50
  Nicky Billou: Like, I mean, every day, like I'd have a team on you and saying, okay, there needs to be 211 pieces of content a week.
• 16:58
  Nicky Billou: I made that number up.
• 16:59
  Nicky Billou: I'm John.
• 17:00
  Nicky Billou: That's being put out there, team.
• 17:02
  Nicky Billou: Have at her.
• 17:03
  Nicky Billou: So there's a person whose job it is to compile all that and get your messaging out there.
• 17:08
  Nicky Billou: So, and then I would say to you for 90 minutes a week, I need you to kind of review some of this content and go, okay, that was, eh, we got to do this.
• 17:18
  Nicky Billou: So you got to keep iterating and making it better.
• 17:20
  Nicky Billou: So that's number one.
• 17:22
  Nicky Billou: Secondly, I'd make a short documentary of your company and of this product, why it came up.
• 17:32
  Nicky Billou: And there's this little, I don't know if I have this exactly, but.
• 17:37
  Nicky Billou: So there's this tool.
• 17:38
  Nicky Billou: I didn't create this tool, but it's called the pink sheet.
• 17:42
  Nicky Billou: It's a way to capture ideas and intellectual property.
• 17:46
  Nicky Billou: And I kind of teach you how to do this for certain things you want to put out there.
• 17:51
  Nicky Billou: And one of the things we're big on is metaphors.
• 17:53
  Nicky Billou: And you know how you were using the metaphor of the windshield.
• 17:55
  Nicky Billou: I go, great.
• 17:56
  Nicky Billou: We're going to make a little animated movie of the windshield.
• 18:00
  Nicky Billou: Along with this.
• 18:01
  Nicky Billou: And I'd say, well, John's voice, got to be your voice.
• 18:04
  Nicky Billou: Nobody else.
• 18:05
  Nicky Billou: So we don't want to outsource this part because you got to be the guy.
• 18:08
  Nicky Billou: You know what I'm saying?
• 18:09
  Nicky Billou: It cannot be a generic.
• 18:11
  Nicky Billou: That is a terrible idea because we want to make you John Euker, Elon Musk of the space.
• 18:15
  Nicky Billou: Right?
• 18:16
  Nicky Billou: Elon doesn't outsource that kind of stuff.
• 18:18
  Nicky Billou: He outsources a lot of other things, but not that.
• 18:19
  Nicky Billou: He does all the talking and put it out there.
• 18:21
  Nicky Billou: We put that out there.
• 18:22
  Nicky Billou: And part two is I consider having your own channel or podcast talking about these types
• 18:30
  Nicky Billou: of issues.
• 18:33
  Nicky Billou: I would bring on surgeons as guests.
• 18:35
  Nicky Billou: I've been on heads of hospital systems as guests, and I bring on medical device engineers
• 18:42
  Nicky Billou: as guests.
• 18:42
  Nicky Billou: I'd also bring on investors in medical device companies as guests.
• 18:47
  Nicky Billou: You know, I'm giving you a whole bunch of free advice here, brother.
• 18:50
  Nicky Billou: It's good, right?
• 18:51
  John Uecker: I like it.
• 18:52
  John Uecker: I'm writing them down.
• 18:53
  Nicky Billou: Good.
• 18:53
  Nicky Billou: And the next thing I do is I'd write a short book.
• 18:57
  Nicky Billou: This would not be like, you know, a, you know, university level book.
• 19:00
  Nicky Billou: This would be a lay person's book that would, um, that would be all about explaining to people
• 19:08
  Nicky Billou: what this is, why it matters.
• 19:10
  Nicky Billou: Uh, and, but it would be subsumed in the macro story of John Uecker's vision for, um, advances
• 19:20
  Nicky Billou: in medicine and in surgery.
• 19:22
  Nicky Billou: You know what I mean?
• 19:22
  Nicky Billou: And not just about clear cam.
• 19:24
  Nicky Billou: Okay.
• 19:24
  Nicky Billou: You think of the Elon Musk, he doesn't just talk about whatever company he happens to
• 19:28
  Nicky Billou: be talking about.
• 19:29
  Nicky Billou: He has a vision of Elon Musk is the man with the fantastic, the vision of the fantastic
• 19:33
  Nicky Billou: future, right?
• 19:34
  Nicky Billou: Most people don't hear Elon do very specific talks about a specific company, unless he's on a podcast specifically for SpaceX or Neuralink or whatever the heck else is going on.
• 19:48
  Nicky Billou: And then he'll talk about that during that space.
• 19:50
  Nicky Billou: But if he's on an overall, if he's on a podcast like Joe Rogan, as an example, and every time he's got on Rogan, I listen to the entire episode because I learn a ton from him, A, about the future because he's got a hell of a vision.
• 20:03
  Nicky Billou: But I also want to learn about how this guy creates his brand because he's a freaking genius at it.
• 20:09
  Nicky Billou: He's the best I've ever seen at it.
• 20:11
  Nicky Billou: So those are the things I'd have you do, those three areas.
• 20:15
  Nicky Billou: And I'd say to you, man, this is a five-year plan, John.
• 20:20
  Nicky Billou: I'd say to you, I'm going to work with you for five years.
• 20:23
  Nicky Billou: You're going to sign a contract with me where once a quarter, I'm going to meet you for half a day, a day, et cetera.
• 20:31
  Nicky Billou: We're going to review everything you've done.
• 20:32
  Nicky Billou: We'll have a bi-weekly check-in on some of the stuff, blah, blah, blah.
• 20:37
  Nicky Billou: And the objective would be over a period of time to build your brand.
• 20:40
  Nicky Billou: So ClearCam might get grown and sold to a certain extent during this process.
• 20:45
  Nicky Billou: Maybe next year, some company comes and gives you a whack of money and goes, thanks, John.
• 20:51
  Nicky Billou: And then you're on to the next thing.
• 20:52
  Nicky Billou: But the beauty of it is your brand will be greater than ClearCam.
• 20:56
  Nicky Billou: Your brand will be stronger than ClearCam.
• 20:58
  Nicky Billou: Your brand will feed ClearCam and any other project you get involved in, just kind of like Musk's desk.
• 21:03
  Nicky Billou: Does that make sense?
• 21:04
  Nicky Billou: It does.
• 21:05
  Nicky Billou: It does.
• 21:06
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Nicky Billou: So, you know, because I'm fascinated by what you've created.
• 21:10
  Nicky Billou: This is, if I may say so, this is genius.
• 21:15
  John Uecker: Well, thank you.
• 21:17
  John Uecker: We do think it's the future for sure that people not be taking scopes out of the body and that, you know, in a robotic surgery, you don't even have to think about cleaning.
• 21:26
  John Uecker: It'll just be automated.
• 21:27
  John Uecker: And we have software that can tell if it's clean or dirty and integrated that with our hardware.
• 21:33
  John Uecker: And we've done that.
• 21:34
  John Uecker: We just need to advance it and bring it into the clinical environment.
• 21:38
  John Uecker: But anyway, excited about that as well.
• 21:41
  Nicky Billou: You should be.
• 21:43
  Nicky Billou: It's a great idea.
• 21:44
  Nicky Billou: It's a great company.
• 21:44
  Nicky Billou: What you come up with is good.
• 21:46
  Nicky Billou: And you're like the Elon Musk of robotic surgery, man.
• 21:51
  Nicky Billou: You see the future.
• 21:52
  Nicky Billou: So it's a beautiful place.
• 21:54
  Nicky Billou: So, John, where do people go to find out about a company, about, you know, potential for hospitals to come and check it out and use it?
• 22:05
  Nicky Billou: And where do investors go to find out more about your company and what you guys are trying to do?
• 22:10
  John Uecker: Yeah.
• 22:12
  John Uecker: So that's a great question.
• 22:14
  John Uecker: So we obviously have a website.
• 22:16
  John Uecker: So it's www.clearcam-med.com.
• 22:21
  John Uecker: We're fairly active on LinkedIn with, you know, telling about our activities and stories and surgeons that have used it and different things like that.
• 22:34
  John Uecker: And then, you know, with investors, we obviously have a deck that we share with them that shows video of the product in surgery working and things like that.
• 22:45
  John Uecker: You can see some of that on our website as well.
• 22:49
  John Uecker: and see our patents and the product and the future products and things like that.
• 22:55
  John Uecker: So, yeah, that's the most common way people find us.
• 23:00
  Nicky Billou: We'll put all that on the show notes for the show.
• 23:03
  Nicky Billou: We'll make it happen.
• 23:04
  Nicky Billou: I think it's pretty cool.
• 23:06
  Nicky Billou: I'll go check it out just because I'm curious in a bigger way.
• 23:09
  Nicky Billou: That's a good thing.
• 23:11
  Nicky Billou: We end each show by asking you, our guest expert,
• 23:15
  Nicky Billou: what are your top three expert action steps?
• 23:18
  Nicky Billou: These are your three best pieces of life and success advice in bullet point form.
• 23:23
  Nicky Billou: What say you?
• 23:24
  John Uecker: Number one, be persistent.
• 23:29
  John Uecker: See it through.
• 23:31
  John Uecker: In these types of endeavors, there's lots of reasons to quit and give up, but stay in there.
• 23:39
  John Uecker: That's number one.
• 23:42
  John Uecker: Number two is get people around you with complementary skill sets and personalities that you can work with.
• 23:51
  John Uecker: That's easier said than done.
• 23:55
  John Uecker: And don't try to do everything yourself.
• 23:58
  John Uecker: You can't you can't do it all.
• 23:59
  John Uecker: You need, you know, different people with different expertise to to help you move along.
• 24:06
  John Uecker: Number three is be willing and understand that you are going to have failures and learn from them and get stronger from them.
• 24:19
  John Uecker: Don't get beat down and discouraged by them.
• 24:22
  Nicky Billou: These are three excellent expert action steps.
• 24:27
  Nicky Billou: I identify with all of them.
• 24:28
  Nicky Billou: They're awesome.
• 24:29
  Nicky Billou: Thanks.
• 24:30
  Nicky Billou: John Uecker, man, you are one smart dude.
• 24:34
  Nicky Billou: And I'm really glad we met.
• 24:36
  Nicky Billou: Really glad we had a chance to have this conversation.
• 24:39
  Nicky Billou: Thank you, Nicky.
• 24:40
  Nicky Billou: If there's a way for me to help, I'd like to.
• 24:44
  Nicky Billou: I'll connect you with some other podcast people I know.
• 24:48
  Nicky Billou: So you can keep sharing the message, but keep doing what you're doing, man.
• 24:52
  Nicky Billou: And go build your thought leader positioning to the next level.
• 24:56
  Nicky Billou: It's a beautiful thing.
• 24:57
  John Uecker: All right.
• 24:58
  John Uecker: Thank you, Nicky.
• 24:58
  John Uecker: Appreciate it.
• 24:59
  Nicky Billou: You bet.
• 25:00
  Nicky Billou: And that wraps up another exciting episode of the podcast, The Thought Leader Revolution.
• 25:05
  Nicky Billou: To find out more about today's incredible guests, the one and only John Ucray, go to
• 25:09
  Nicky Billou: the show notes at thethoughtleaderrevolution.com or wherever you happen to listen to this episode,
• 25:15
  Nicky Billou: be it iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, YouTube, Audible, Rumble, or what have you.
• 25:22
  Nicky Billou: Until next time, bye-bye.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: This episode has been brought to you by EastCircleAcademy.com.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: the proven system to add six to seven figures a year to your thought leader practice.